Italian Escort Who Outed 40 Priests To Vatican Explains His Motivation In First Interview With US Gay Press

Earlier this month I reported that an Italian escort had delivered a 1200-page dossier to the Vatican which outs 40 gay priests as his clients. Unsurprisingly, the story continues to earn headlines in the Italian press. This week the escort speaks to our own Father Tony Adams, himself a retired Catholic priest, in an interview with South Florida Gay News. An excerpt:

In Naples, Italy, handsome young Francesco Mangiacapra is a self-identified “marchettaro,” a male prostitute servicing gay men. The Cardinal Archbishop of Naples is 74 year-old Crescenzio Sepe, who was made a Cardinal by Pope Saint John Paul II, and had a terrific Vatican career before his star crashed when he was farmed out to Naples by Pope Benedict XVI under a cloud of financial corruption.

I asked Mangiacapra the obvious question: why give Cardinal Sepe a dossier exposing 40 gay and sexually active priest-clients? His response morally transcends what you might expect from a prostitute talking about hypocritical priests.

“I released this dossier because I wanted to expose the ‘bad apples,’ not to throw mud at the Catholic Church but to help her get rid of the rot that contaminates the healthy part. The behavior of these priests is, in many cases, the fruit of bad leadership in which priests are allowed to do the opposite of what they preach,” Mangiacapra said.

“This kind of ‘schizophrenic’ morality is typical of the hierarchy. The paradox of my relationship with the clergy is that there is a role reversal in which I am a sinner denouncing the priests who are the supposedly moral leaders but are committing sin. Those priests throw stones from their glass houses and the bishops make sure that all those stone-throwers are never exposed! In my book, and now with this dossier, I demonstrate that there is a real lobby of gay priests, a freemasonry, an underground.”

You’ll want to read the full interview.

  • bkmn

    Celibacy is unnatural, so the entire RCC is unnatural.

    • it’s not unnatural for all of us.

      • jixter

        I think that it depends upon your background. Roman Catholicism includes the concept within its culture. I grew up thinking of it as a viable option, even though I never considered becoming a priest. To me, it was an ‘honorable’ practice or condition – and I still think of it that way. You sacrifice an aspect of your private life in service to others. Nothing wrong with that – aside from being very difficult to do.

        • RaygunsGoZap

          True but I think Honey Crisp was pointing toward some folks are asexual and therefore celibate – which is a natural and healthy existence in the world for them. Not necessarily tied to religion but just self-acceptance.

    • Joseph Miceli

      I think it would be more proper to label them as “intrinsically disordered.”

    • Hardley

      motor cars, aeroplanes, bicycles, refrigerators and dialysis machines are also unnatural … wouldn’t it be more constructive to criticise the hypocrisy of the RCC?

    • JCF

      It’s unnatural for most. There are those who legitimately feel called to this way of life (my beloved former spiritual director, an Episcopalian Benedictine monk).

  • Joe in PA

    get rid of the rot that contaminates the healthy part…

    Wait, there’s a healthy part?

    • Tulle Christensen

      well I heard that there is a priest out in the Amazon Jungle that is not a hypocrite. but mind you it is just a rumor

      • Scott Carpenter

        It was just a rumor. Turns out he’s got a kink for parrots.

    • 🐾vorpal🐾

      I’m pretty sure that the dry Jesus flesh wafers have some nutritional value.

      • Rambie

        How much nutritional value in a salt less saltine ?

      • Karl Dubhe

        It’s just white flour, mixed with a bit of water and baked in the priest’s kitchen. *source is a priest. 🙂

        • shellback

          Also, “holy” water comes straight out of the tap in the sacristy. A few abracadabra hand gestures, and you’re good to go.
          [added] Source: I watched it happening.

          • Chucktech

            Holy water from the dish is brimming with fecal coliform bacteria.

          • Karl Dubhe

            After I’m done with it, yah… (kidding)

          • shellback

            And I thought it had no nutritional value at all.

          • Joseph Miceli

            Thank you for that . Sometimes it really is better not to know .

          • iambu

            Even my pious Nonna told me as a kid not to touch “that” holy water, and just to wait for the priest to come by and sprinkle some on us.

          • John

            if you pray hard enough you’ll be just fine….cough, choke, gag.

          • Uncle Mark

            I learned that in Catholic School that Holy Water came out of the tap, but the priests boil the hell out of it.

          • shellback

            I see what you did.

          • Uncle Mark

            Sorry, it was an old altar boy joke. I couldn’t resist.

          • shellback

            You needn’t apologize about anything to me. I’m a fan of yours.

          • Uncle Mark

            ::blush::

          • shellback

            One day I’ll tell you about my Uncle “Mark” and the fun we had together.

          • Steven in Texas

            Please post on Nifty Archive!

          • No wonder I always feel closer to god when I’m reading those Nifty Archive stories, and I thought it was the poppers.

          • John

            RIM SHOT!

          • 🐾vorpal🐾

            I get my holy water out of a tap with a few abracadabra hand gestures as well.

          • Joe in PA

            I see what you did there. Slut.

          • 🐾vorpal🐾

            Awww, thanks, Joe.
            It’s always nice to have one’s achievements recognized. 😽

          • shellback

            Please submit photos.

          • (((GC)))

            Pics or it didn’t happen. 🙂

            (added) Then again, pics don’t always prove things… https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/38f77f384053b026ab2c533e0746a80f1fa32cc0a0b1ed6c76eeab363899f88f.jpg

          • 🐾vorpal🐾

            I prefer to provide hands-on lessons, with plenty of class participation. It really makes the material stick better.

          • shellback

            I love this chart.

          • (((GC)))

            I thought they take ordinary tap water and boil the hell out of it. [edit: should’ve scrolled down. http://www.joemygod.com/2018/03/16/italian-escort-outed-40-priests-vatican-explains-motivation-first-interview-us-gay-press/#comment-3809152264 ]

            [added] You mean there’s no way to distinguish holy water from plain water, any more than there’s a way to distinguish consecrated hosts (even more magical because they look, taste, and assay exactly like ordinary wheat wafers!) from unconsecrated wafers?

          • John

            well it IS holy…it comes out of a hole in the tape….right???..ergo: HOLEy water…LOL

          • Tony Adams

            That is 100% true. I’ll never forget when I made my first batch. That evening over dinner, I told a priest friend about it and he asked, “Did you make it from scratch?” We were three Martinis in and laughing our heads off.

          • shellback

            Tony, That’s a very funny story.

            The priest’s actual job in the church was organist. He didn’t take pastoral duties seriously. Abracadabra-water was a joke to him – and me.

          • ajchar

            So did the water they mixed with the wine during mass, though when I was an altar boy in the 70s they never let the peasant faithful have a sip of it. It was pretty shitty wine anyway. Luckily my Catholicism didn’t survive my 12 years of Catholic schools. Though it died not because I was gay but because I was a nerd bookworm.

        • jixter

          When I was growing up, the ‘host’ was made by the Nuns in their convent’s kitchen. Sisters of Mercy (they are not departed or gone).

          • Karl Dubhe

            Yes, some branches do use real bread. Ours did for xmas and easter.

          • jixter

            They were weird – kinda like white Necco Wafers. Does anybody remember Necco Wafers?

          • Uncle Mark

            We used to compare Necco Wafers to Communion wafers all the time as kids. Speaking of old candy, have you ever checked out the site https://www.oldtimecandy.com. I sent a box as a 50 year gag gift at a party. There was so much reminiscing over some overly-sugared, pretty awful candy.

          • Joe in PA

            Thanks for that link…you can select “by the decade”. Wow.

          • PickyPecker

            They have Pop Rocks!!!!

          • Joe in PA

            I was thinking about the candy necklace that looks like a 70s puka-shell necklace. Ahhh, good times.

          • Joe in PA

            I think you can still buy them.

          • Uncle Mark

            You still can

          • jixter

            For the time being, anyway. The company that makes them is about to go under. They opened in 1847. Necco is their name. It stands for New England Candy Company or New England Confectioners Company.

          • Steven in Texas

            I have some in my candy drawer at this very moment!

          • Joe in PA

            Wait…you have a candy drawer? Oh my.

          • Steven in Texas

            That’s nothing, my sister keeps an entire candy cabinet! But yes.
            Now I have no Necco wafers left. Somehow the though, I must consume, came into my head.
            Sadness ensues.😞

          • stuckinthewoods

            yes, we would save the white ones for play mass.

          • stuckinthewoods

            I remember that too. Nasty soggy little lumps of bread soaked in wine.
            It’s too bad they hadn’t had pizza at the Last Supper. “Slice o’Christ, amen”

          • 🐾vorpal🐾

            I was one of those reprobate liberal protestants, and we got real bread and grape juice.

            So not worth standing in line for.

          • Oh’behr in Minnesota

            SPOILER ALERT:

            I love in the film, Ladybird, when the girls are eating communion wafers and another girl is shocked. And Ladybird says, well, they’re not consecrated.

            As a kid, I always wanted a box of them. Don’t know why. Now I’d want the whole wheat or whole grain version, though I haven’t been to church in decades and would prefer a better cracker or whole grain bread than a communion wafer. Anyway, I thought that bit in the film was humorous.

          • Oh’behr in Minnesota

            Another continuation of above SPOILER ALERT:

            Also they’re eating communion wafers out of a plastic bottle labeled communion wafers. At first, I thought it was a joke. As thought, in California, someone was selling a cracker marketed as Communion Wafers. I suppose one could buy mass marketed, communion wafers, for church services.

          • Tony Adams

            I. Love. That. Song. (I was taught by the Sisters of Mercy in grades 2-4. I did not much like them.)

          • jixter

            I had them from 1st thru 6th, then transferred to a public Junior High that was a gobsmacking experience I wasn’t prepared for. In comparison, Catholic school was like being in the Army with strict rules, regimentation and everything else except executions by firing squad. The Sisters of Mercy were all over Rhode Island. If other Orders were competing in that market, I never knew about them.

            Always had this theory: Whatever an Order was named was the very quality they lacked. Sisters of Mercy had none. Sister of Charity, ditto – etc …

            I was initially confused about Leonard’s song. I started out thinking that it must be about the Nuns I knew, but the lyrics didn’t make sense – and besides, he was Jewish; what would he be writing about them for? I was a late bloomer. And kinda slow.

          • Tony Adams

            There is also a line in a Joni Mitchell song about nuns withering the grass they walked on! One thing I’ll say for Catholic school , when I transferred to public school in 5th grade, I had to repeat everything I had learned in 4th grade. A wasted year.

        • coram nobis

          Christ Chrispies?

        • John

          …and who knows what ‘secret ingredient’ a priest or two may have added….

        • Tony Adams

          It is not baked in the priest’s kitchen. They are purchased from orders of monks or nuns who run supply businesses. Canon law dictates the recipe. You could not, for instance, add cinnamon.

          • Karl Dubhe

            I listened to a couple of Anglican priests joke about having to eat the extra hosts they made…

            Not everyone is a Catholic.

          • Tony Adams

            There were times when I’d be out all night and get back to the parish 5 minutes before the start of Mass, throw on the vestments over my bar clothes and grab a handful of unconsecrated hosts for a quick breakfast. That was about when I figured I ought to leave and get a real life.

          • Karl Dubhe

            I lost belief in gods long before I left the Church for the last time after mum’s funeral. I’m pretty sure she didn’t believe in god at the end of her life either.

            Her religion, like the monarchy, was just a comfortable constant for her.

      • Nic Peterson

        it’s not even decent bread. If one must participate, skip the wafer entirely and go straight for the wine. (even that sucks)

        • Karl Dubhe

          That’s usually home brewed, as it’s cheaper. There’s almost no alcohol in it. 🙂

          The stuff that has alcohol is served at the priest’s table. With a lovely dinner.

          • Tony Adams

            Good god, did we eat well. And only the best booze, and we never paid for any of it. When I left, I had no idea what it cost to always have a full bottle of the best Scotch at my finger tips. To always have the best steaks. Father got all of that because his parishioners assumed he was giving up sex. That was it in a nutshell.

        • 🐾vorpal🐾

          I’ll skip both and go for the Italian escort.

          • Nic Peterson

            Good idea, I had already pulled out some Italian sausage for dinner. 🙂

      • Chucktech

        I think they’re just little styrofoam discs…

        • Oh’behr in Minnesota

          They certainly almost tasted like styrofoam, or rice cakes. Ugh.

      • Joe in PA

        Did you ever read Angela’s Ashes (Frank McCourt)? There is a wonderfully funny (if you grew up catholic in particular) scene where he vomits after receiving communion? He panics, doesn’t know what to do. His mom tells him to get holy water from the church to wash it away.

        Maybe you DO have to be a child of catholic training for that to be funny.

        • Gregory B

          Been there, done that except for vomiting at my First Communion…

          • Joe in PA

            🙂 And look how you turned out. 🙂

          • Todd20036

            Yeah, he still cannot swallow…

        • 🐾vorpal🐾

          I have not! I didn’t grow up Catholic but it sounds hilarious :D.

      • John

        I’ve always maintained that this religious ritual (communion) reeks of cannibalism, i.e. wine = blood, wafer = flesh.

        • 🐾vorpal🐾

          Don’t get me started on the mayonnaise.

        • Tony Adams

          That is not a stretch. Even if it were construed to be poetry rather than “transubstantiation,” it is still creepy poetry.

    • Nic Peterson

      Sister Mary This-n-that remains skeptical.

    • Paula

      That was my first thought, too. What exactly would be the healthy part? Bingo? Keeping Grandma off the streets?

    • ted-

      Nope! Don’t fool yourselves. Religion is a cancer to society.

    • Gay Fordham Prep Grad

      For the most part it’s the nuns.

    • Todd20036

      The architecture.

  • Hank

    I want a date with Francesco!!!!

    • Natty Enquirer

      So much for moral transcendence. 🙂

    • Mrs. Councillor Nugent
    • FloBear

      I want a date with Tony Adams!

    • jeffg166

      Show him the money and he’s yours.

    • Tony Adams

      Let me just tell you. He has sent me some pics of his gifts and they are remarkable.

      • Wisterley

        Dude. You might want to rethink the wisdom of that comment.

        • Tony Adams

          Why?

          • Wisterley

            Because you’ve written an interview with someone, and would seem to be sympathetic toward his motive/intent. Which is fine. As you see, his actions have provoked controversy here. I don’t know what I think. But by including a gossipy aside in questionable taste, in my opinion (full disclosure: I veer puritanical), you’re undercutting the validity of your position as interviewer reducing your work to gossip.

          • Tony Adams

            I might have to call bullshit on that. “Taste,” darling, has nothing to do with this. Unless you are talking literally. Seriously, it is not a gossipy aside, it is a light-hearted comment that is pertinent, given what he provides in terms of photos and disclosures. Read Oscar Wilde’s preface to Dorian Gray for his sense of what “controversy” indicates. I am pleased with it.

          • Wisterley

            I’m not talking about your interview, which I haven’t read. But you must do as you think best.

          • Tony Adams

            You should read it first, lest you fall prey to Cardinal Spellman’s embarrassment over having condemned a novel he had never read.

  • TexasBoy

    I am assuming by “a freemasonry” he means a sort of secret society, and nothing more sinister. I’m sorry, but gay priests are certainly nothing new in the Catholic church, and while they are hypocritical, as long as they aren’t doing underage boys, I don’t really care…remember, even straight priests aren’t allowed to marry or openly have sexual relationships.

    • BobSF_94117

      I suspect he really means Freemasonry. It feeds an Italian paranoia.

      [edit] Now that I’ve read it in context, you’re right, he meant it generically. Still, it is a dog-whistle in Italian politics, a very manipulative way to put it.

      • Tony Adams

        It is interesting you say that because in my years in Rome I learned that the Italians have a very real and dreadful sense of freemasonry that we in the USA do not share.

        • BobSF_94117

          Everyone needs a bugaboo and, in a country so influenced by the Church, who better to pick?

  • Rex

    They expect priests, human beings, to live a life that is impossible to live and then are surprised when they fail.

    • Natty Enquirer

      It’s the epitome of the manipulation practiced by salvation religions. Vilify irresistible healthy drives, shame those who can’t deny them (which is everyone except the occasional freak), and then control.

      • Tony Adams

        But let’s recall what started the whole “celibate” priesthood. It was a desire to keep the land and wealth of the church out of the hands of sons and daughters who might claim it. It had nothing to do with spiritual benefit for the priest. As always, the church worries about money.

        • Natty Enquirer

          Did it start celibacy? Or was it the motivation to enforce it widely? The notion of holy men foregoing sexual relations dates back much farther, in the case of Christians, to the Fourth Century.

          • Karl Dubhe

            In the case of other religions/cults it goes back even further.

            They’re the ones who reproduce unnaturally.

          • Chucktech

            AFAIK, priests in the Catholic Church could marry before this little rule was dreamed up.

          • BobSF_94117

            Celibacy and other forms of asceticism date from the first few centuries of the Common Era, when a wave of similar beliefs swept westward from India. It was always a goal, an ideal, in Christianity. It didn’t become a rule, though, until the accountants took over…

          • Gustav2

            The Protestant solution for ages was not to allow the ordained to own their own homes, etc. I grew up in a series of church owned homes. It was a real problem when a pastor retires and doesn’t have a house to sell or to retire in.

          • BobSF_94117

            Until the age of television, Protestantism did a pretty good job of choking off any possibility of the rise of a financial hierarchy running the show (except, of course, for official national religions, especially the CoE).

          • Tony Adams

            Yes, in the monastic tradition. But the secular church evolved rapidly as a temporal and financial power rather than a spiritual organism.

  • Harveyrabbit

    “delivered a 1200-page dossier”

    Jebus, War And Peace had 1225 pages. Maybe he sent his illustrated version.

    • CanuckDon

      I’m trying to think of what would be written to cover 1200 pages. Does he go into detailed descriptions of every sex act?

      • Harveyrabbit

        That would explain why the pope insisted on only reading it while he was in the bathroom.

        • CanuckDon

          Quickly flipping the pages to see just how hung Father Roberts really is!

    • Tony Adams

      It is chock full of screen grabs, and sexting images.

      • The_Wretched

        A bed stand book then.

      • WNY

        A pop up book?

  • The_Wretched

    ” I demonstrate that there is a real lobby of gay priests”

    the shadowy gay priest lobby gets blamed by the Ratzinger types for all the bad acts of the RCC from the money laundering to the rapes. I’d take this one guy and his book as an attempt by the Papal office to purge dissent.

    The reality is that the Vatican is corrupt top to bottom. Obscene piles of wealth, coupled with “obey” as a primary virtue, coupled to the ultimate in no accountability means you’re going to attract the worst people and have the least amount of control over them.

    • Tony Adams

      I don’t think we can credit the Vatican with anything as serpentine as that. Their disdain for bad headlines would override any such concoction or scheme. Your are right about how any discussion of a “secret gay lobby” is a two-edged sword. I can tell you from experience that there is no “official” gay lobby. (No secret handshake, etc.) but as is the case everywhere, gay priests find their own and promote their own. I myself was ordained a deacon by a newly minted gay bishop. In an organization that would give you the boot if you came out of the closet, unspoken allegiances had value.

      • The_Wretched

        Thanks for the article and replies here.

        • Tony Adams

          You are welcomed!

  • alguien

    while i think the catholic church is a hotbed of corruption & hypocrisy, i don’t, for a second, believe this young man’s motives are exactly selfless either.

    • Natty Enquirer

      Gotta make some money for retirement.

    • Tony Adams

      As I mentioned in the interview, he was upfront about asking me to shout out his book. As Truman Capote said, “A boy has to hustle his book.”

    • jixter

      Correct. He’s young, handsome and on the make – one way or the other.

      • Chuck in NYC

        Yeah. Probably good in bed. Not such good marriage material, though. At least not for the near future.

  • BobSF_94117

    What an asshole.

  • jeffg166

    The real question is how many catholic priests are actually straight.

    • malakoi queers make ideal conduits to divinity.

      we also make great artists, muses, mystics and w h o r e s.

      dude in the OP is hurting his own people, my own people.

      it was a mistake.

    • The_Wretched

      How many are actually asexuals who can be sane and celibate at the same time.

    • Smokey

      Studies suggest 15 to 53 % are gay.

    • Tony Adams

      In my day – and I left it in 1983 – about 75% were gay. Now, I think the numbers are lower because self-respecting gay men have more options for leading productive lives in community leadership without the veil of celibacy afforded by ordination.

  • Treant

    So who’s funding him and is going to turn this whole thing into a witch hunt?

    Gee, I wonder.

  • boatboy_srq

    So, the greatest problems are the paedo ones and the grifting ones, so he outs the queer ones.

    Got it.

    • Tony Adams

      That is an interesting point and one I questioned Francesco about. He made it clear that he has nothing against his priest/clients because they are gay. It’s the hypocrisy. I feel the same about my gay classmates who are still in the active ministry and espouse the anti-gay stance of the church.

      • The_Wretched

        Evenso, it’d have been nicer if he used his special access to crucify the other two categories.

        • John30013

          Presumably he is not involved with the other categories, since he’s too old for the pedophiles and has nothing the grifters want.

      • Devon Rodriguez

        Then give back the money if the stain of HYPOCRISY is so deep…

      • BobSF_94117

        News to Mr. Goat and, apparently, to you: humans are hypocritical. Maybe if he had cooperated with some female hookers to out the priests who have hetero sex, I’d be less disgusted. But then he’d have to share the earnings from his book.

        As for the priests he has exposed, how does he know they weren’t voices for reform in the Church? You say you feel the same way about your classmates who remain in the Church and are anti-gay. How do you feel about any who remain in the Church and are NOT anti-gay?

        • jixter

          Life isn’t easy and we all have choices to make. There are plenty of occasions where we end up having to compromise ourselves, to one degree or another. Still, if you take a vow of celibacy, you really should honor it. There’s no saying you can’t masturbate on the downlow. There’s a difference between celibacy and abstinence.

          • j.martindale

            People make vows at marriage. Those, too, should ideally be honored. Look how well that works.

          • The_Wretched

            That marriage vows thing bothers me. Things change. There needs to be renegotiations along the way.

          • (((GC)))

            Some people are polyamorous and married, or have explicitly open marriages, or other “nontraditional” understandings with their spouses. (They’re not the ones most likely to be getting married in a Catholic church ceremony!)

          • The_Wretched

            I’m married to a woman. It was a protestant wedding as the Catholics demanded the true worship of our children and we weren’t going to promise that. After about 20 years, we opened up (mostly for my kink and her waning interest for a number of reasons). We also have no idea what our vows were, they weren’t written down and we didn’t remember them. I think it was boilerplate for that pastor.

        • Tony Adams

          But there aren’t any! By dint of their continued membership in the active rolls of the clergy they are fused to the anti-gay teachings and proclamations of the Church. Here is an example that limps only slightly: can you be a member of the NRA and claim to be against assault weapons and bump-stocks?

          • BobSF_94117

            Oh, come on. You were a priest. Were you anti-gay at the time?

            And you must know some of the history of (presumably gay) priests and their role in the early years of the fight for decriminalization. They were among the first to speak up against outing and imprisonment. And what about all the opening of the Church to gay people before the Asshole JPII took over? Were the bishops and priests who welcomed Dignity hypocrites, too?

          • Tony Adams

            Yes. I was. I kept cutting out all the things I couldn’t say from the pulpit and all the things I couldn’t say to gay men who came to me for counseling. When it got the point where I couldn’t look in the mirror with self-respect, I left.

          • BobSF_94117

            That answer strikes me as vague. What did you “cut out”? More importantly, what didn’t you cut out? Did you condemn homosexuality from the pulpit? In confession? Did you encourage anti-gay political activity in sermons?

          • Tony Adams

            That is the point. I was bound to tell people the teaching of the church to which magisterial and dogmatic authority I subscribed. When I personally outgrew those teachings and when I became personally at odds with them, I left. Most everyone I knew encouraged me to remain in the ranks of the clergy – including my bishop.

          • Chris Baker

            a follow up question (just to clarify to others), as a priest, were you gay and celibate (and anti-gay) or gay and non-celibate and anti-gay?

            I think there’s a difference.Priests can be gay, and celibate and anti-gay, just as priests can be straight and celibate and against premarital sex. (not an exact correlation, but similar).Just as a straight priest who is having sex with women, then turning around and saying premarital sex is a sin, would be the same type of hypocrite.

            These priests were anti-gay and not being celibate.

          • Tony Adams

            I was one of the huge number of gay (and straight) priests who had/have an active sex life on the down low. When that life style gave me more grief than satisfaction, I left. All – and I mean all – my gay priest friends encouraged me to stay in the active ministry with them. Most of them pointed out that there was no reason to give up a sensationally enjoyable sex life that had no strings attached to it! I wanted the real thing. So sue me.

          • Chris Baker

            I think that’s what the escort was trying to uncover. So many priests telling everyone else how they should live their lives, but they can’t even live up to those standards themselves.

            From what I have heard (I’m from a fundamentalist baptist background), the priests are held in high regard by the parish. They have a lot of power. And, like any kind of power, it can go to their head (priests, pastors, CEOs, etc.).So for them to disregard one of their main vows while acting holier than everyone else is frustrating to those who really want to believe.

            I had to stop going to church when I ‘decided to be gay’ (actually, to act on my desires) because I could not reconcile the two. (and there were other reasons I stopped going). So I don’t understand those who can stay in a more conservative church and be gay. I had pretty strict views.

            That’s just me, I didn’t mean to attack you, if you felt that, just to understand.

          • Tony Adams

            That is the heart of it. The priest is viewed as the arbiter of salvation. They claim this position because Jesus said to his apostles, “Whose sins you shall forgive, they shall be forgiven in heaven.” Catholics in the pews think that only the priest can get them to heaven through his forgiveness and through the sacraments he offers. That is one reason why priests don’t want to give up the power to administer sacraments. If women can do it, and if laymen can do it, they would be marginalized whenever they behaved badly. The patriarchy is really a circus tent with no exits. My husband comes from a fundamentalist Baptist upbringing. He rolls his eyes, but he knows his bible better than any Catholic!

      • boatboy_srq

        That’s incredibly naive, and potentially seriously counterproductive. It allows the Reichwing to paint all LGBT persons of faith with the paedo brush, and it masks the real harm being done by those who are violating their oath in more measurably criminal ways.

        I don’t doubt that it was perceived as a genuine issue. But poisoning people’s career prospects simply for what any other body would put in the “consenting adults” bucket, when there are more serious ongoing behaviors places higher value on the hypocrisy than in the outright criminality and the serious dereliction of duty while ministering to the most vulnerable, is misguided and dangerous,and plays far more into the Reichwing’s hands than would focusing on the abusers and thieves using the Church as their shield. Pursuing righteousness should not set back LGBT rights, as this is almost certain to do.

  • Devon Rodriguez

    His motivations are simple…he is a HYPOCRITE…because he is NOT going to give back the money he made from them….

    https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AcclaimedThoughtfulJapanesebeetle-size_restricted.gif

  • Devon Rodriguez
  • shellback

    Religion is superstitious hogwash preying on the gullible, frightened, and brainwashed. There is NO healthy part.

    • jixter

      The desire to find a larger meaning in life is a natural and a normal human behavior. You can’t change human nature. It is what it is.

      • The_Wretched

        Religions are still bad. People can find meaning in their own lives or in something like humanism that doesn’t have the problems of organized religion.

        • jixter

          I totally agree – but humans are social and we like to congregate.

          • pch1013

            I enjoy getting together once a week to share fellowship with my brethren, listen to words of inspiration, and sing.

            That’s why I joined a gay men’s chorus.

          • jixter

            Exactly – which is a sharing of belief – in words of inspiration, in fellowship, in the power of song; and because none of us like the word ‘religion’ very much, we won’t call your practice of your beliefs ‘religion’. Personally, I go to a ‘PrimeTimers’ lunch every Monday and it’s usually attended by the same 8 or 9 guys. We eat and talk. We tend to share a lot of the same beliefs. Sort of like a religion. Sort of like “going to church”.

          • JCF

            Episcopal choir, same.

      • Tony Adams

        Spirituality good. Modern religion bad.

        • jixter

          And ancient religious practice even worse.

          • Tony Adams

            Ah but there was something so honest and immediate (and visceral?) in the killing of a critter to auger success in war. (Jokingly)

          • haha!!

        • JCF

          Speak for your Roman church, Padre. Swim the Thames to the Episcopal Church, and we’re pretty fab (not perfect, but always progressing!).

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/057e68e0fe9297e81155248d34c5c4e7c5df8ecbae855a1aa270f7d05c25ce03.jpg

          • Tony Adams

            Oh I know. I lost my virginity to an Anglican minister in London.

          • Ivan T. Errible

            your “Roman Church”? Do you call the Orthodox “the Greek/Russian Church”? Or does “Apostolicae Curae” still stick in your craw?
            There are few more ridiculous Episcopalians than converts; they somehow have to take on all the most ludicrous affectations and historical resentments of their church, things that cradle Episcopalians are embarrassed by.
            Pathetic.

          • Ivan T. Errible

            A church that’s barely 5% non White after 50 years of preaching “Celebrate diversity”? Really?
            That’s P-Town or NPR at prayer. Middle class, middle aged and middle brow.

      • Ivan T. Errible

        “Natural and normal” doesn’t always equal “useful/moral”. It’s natural to want to shoot your partner and someone cheating on you when you find them in your bed together; it’s neither moral nor socially useful to actually get the gun and blow them both away.

  • BeaverTales

    Mangiacapra? Goat eater?

    Well he certainly devoured 40 hypocritical old goats , old goats who made a living demonizing gay rights

    • The_Wretched

      Maybe it’s a variation of chupacabra / stagename.

  • misterjack

    Just shut up and suck/fuck, already.

  • Marc: The Social Gadfly

    I’m still hearing significant homophobia and graft from this guy. Is it just me?

    Yes, he is calling out the hypocrisy but, it also intones that the Catholic Church simply needs to root out “the gay hypocritical actors” and their superior supporters from their “morally superior” straight and “non-hypocritical” ones.

    EDITED for context: I hadn’t read the full story prior to the above post. There’s definitely more to this in the story itself. And, I should have read deeper before formulating the above thoughts.

    • Tony Adams

      Not quite, but you are correct in using the word “intones.” I think Francesco sees all the dominoes that can cause each other to fall. I think he pushed one over and hopes that in the process the complete “rot” in the Catholic Church will be removed. Of course, that is not likely, but, as is said, Rome was not built in a day. Nor will its fall be had in a day.

      • Marc: The Social Gadfly

        I hate being reminded that we’re all in this for the long haul but, we won’t be here to see it when it’s finished, 😀

        • Tony Adams

          Right, but think of how much we have seen that we never thought we would.

  • j.martindale

    “Bad apples”? Screw him. He is out selling his body and then complaining about the people that paid him.

    The priests, if they had any insight, would run screaming from the arms of “Mother Church.” But they don’t because either the superstition is too great for them to overcome or they are afraid because their lives are so intertwined with their screwed up profession. Yeah, they behave hypocritically. They are victims, too. There was a very good film called “The Priest” a while back that is a fairly good depiction of the quandary these people find themselves in. The priesthood is a trap for gay men.

    • Hue-Man
    • BeaverTales

      Many if not most sociopaths have a tragic backstory.

      It’s a shame the personal dilemmas of closet queens in the Vatican results in the infringement of my First Amendment rights.in America. I don’t think they deserve any respect or forgiveness from anyone for doing that to people who don’t believe in their religion.

      If their church stayed out of my government, I wouldn’t care what they are doing on their own time. Screw them.

      • j.martindale

        I think that you may be conflating the gay priests in this story with the hierarchy which attacks gay rights. That may–but also may not be the case.

        • BeaverTales

          Mangiacapra is actually doing them (and other closeted Catholic men/boys, even Catholic women/girls) a bigger favor than they realize by exposing the hypocrisy of the entire institution..

          Even if they are trapped by career inertia and church politics, these Vatican officials are being dishonest by providing pastoral care to others who are struggling with their own sexuality. Misdirected Catholic youth in particular are at high risk of suicide and/or being trapped for life in sham marriages.

          I do pity cowards. But cowards in positions of leadership are doing far more harm to the world than if they were to disappoint their families and their church. Mangiacapra shouldn’t be denigrated for being the only honest person in the whole bunch.

          • j.martindale

            I WILL denigrate the prostitute. He is a whore who profits off other people’s misery. You roll these people all in one big ball and judge them as wanting. I don’t defend the Church for its backward and discriminatory practices. I also don’t agree with your stereotyping of these closeted people, many of whom joined the profession as basically boys, as sociopaths. Judge not…

          • BeaverTales

            We will just have to agree to disagree. The prostitute is a hero, not these priests. The grifting johns are not victims, they are predators paying for sex using alms for the poor. No one forced them to work in a pedophile cult that drives both the boys they rape and the men they shame to suicide or worse. Being gay is no excuse for what they’ve done. They are part of a much greater evil. History has already judged them, and found them to be wanting.

    • RYalman

      That was a good movie! I hadn’t thought about it in a while; I just looked up how critics reviewed it at the time: Roger Ebert called it “shallow and exploitative”!?! I guess it was ahead of its time.

  • GanymedeRenard

    Ok, so does a group of priests who employ male prostitutes suddenly make a “lobby of gay priests”? What does he mean by that?

    • Tony Adams

      The “gay priest lobby” has been a phrase kicked around with hysteria in Rome for years, beginning with Benedict XVI. Even Pope Francis mentioned it. It certainly is not official – no secret handshake or secret membership roster.

      • GanymedeRenard

        Yeah, but I don’t understand what they mean by lobby. I mean, it’s not like a group of priests are fighting for gay rights, is it?

        • Tony Adams

          You’re absolutely right. It isn’t a lobby in the true sense of the word. A better word might be “fraternity” or “tribe” or something that doesn’t signify anything like “lobbying.” I always felt uncomfortable with the prevalence of that word in Italian reports and in consequent English reports.

          • JCF

            More like lobbying to stay safely closeted?

          • Tony Adams

            Staying closeted becomes an art form for a priest. That is why many of them have a tough time coming out. They begin to cherish their secret and they grow proud of their success at navigating a life on the down low. To give that up feels to them like negating their whole life. I understand that deeply. That is why when my friends kept saying “Wait. Give it another ten years.” I knew that would be a fatal mistake. I knew I had to jump immediately.

  • -M-

    His morality seems schizophrenic, too. Condemning his clients instead of the church.

    • iambu

      I know what you mean. But the way the church functions in Italy/for Italians is pretty different than in America, so that would be his point of reference. Italians go to mass like once or twice a year, but are often really hesitant to condemn the institution as a whole because of the weighty cultural tie-in.

      • Tony Adams

        Very true. Only 2% of Italy goes to Mass regularly.

    • Tony Adams

      Read him carefully. He condemns the hypocrisy of his priest clients.

      • -M-

        That is not clear.

  • ColdCountry

    I do tend to drift off topic, but what strikes me the most is his command of the English language.

    • Jean-Marc in Canada

      That’s shouldn’t really come as a surprise. Most Europeans speak a minimum of three languages, English being one of the most prominent.

      • ColdCountry

        I know. Everybody seems to be better educated than Americans these days.

    • Tony Adams

      Read carefully. He asked me to brush up his responses in order to make the grammar respectable. He sent me an auto-translation. I upfront that in the interview.

      • ColdCountry

        Ah, missed that. But well done, both of you. 😀

        • Tony Adams

          Thanks! Appreciated!

  • Leo
    • The_Wretched

      Is that 3 now in a week?

      • Leo

        Yes.

        • coram nobis

          Accident-prone, aren’t they?

          • Karl Dubhe

            “If only they had spoken nicely about Putin.”

            /fools

          • The_Wretched

            I have to wonder if it’s just a housecleaning spree or if there’s something specific Putin is trying to hide or this is all a “win-win” of in terrorim for the ex-pats and a useful UK/US wedge.

          • jixter

            I think that in addition to settling some scores, Putin is also testing the will of the Western Alliance. He’s pushing to see how far he can push without getting any real push-back. Theresa May’s expulsion of 21 Russian ‘diplomats’ will do nothing because it’s all about the money that Russians have invested in British real estate and business. Until those assets are exposed and seized, everybody (England, Russia and the US) are just playing games.

          • William

            A couple weeks ago, the UK announced they would be investigating the source of money brought into Britain by Russian oligarchs.

            http://www.newsweek.com/2018/03/09/britain-unexplained-wealth-orders-russian-oligarchs-821009.html

    • Treant

      I’m sure Mueller’s gotten the message by the third time now.

  • netxtown

    obviously, he didn’t much appreciate the tip left on the nightstand.

    When he can write about the ones who are throwing big stones – then i might listen. it’s also ‘interesting’ that he went after priests. How about those in position of legal power? Surely they’d like to poke a youngin too. in my book, he’s a fame whore.

    • Tony Adams

      I think he rather admitted that upon my questioning. That said, his desire for fame does not negate his moral convictions which are very well thought out.

  • GanymedeRenard

    Also, has anybody seen his, ahem, instrument? Asking for a friend.

    • The_Wretched

      hinted at below by tony adams to be noteworthy.

    • Natty Enquirer

      Looking for true wood?

      • GanymedeRenard

        Always. 😉

    • Tony Adams

      Yes. Photos anyway. You can tell your friend he’ll get more than his money’s worth.

      • GanymedeRenard

        Link, please? 🙂

        • Tony Adams

          Not yet. He has forwarded material to be used in follow up pieces. Stay tuned.

  • Treant

    OK…is anybody seeing a bit of hypocrisy in the way we react to this fellow versus the rah-rah-rah attitude people show toward Stormy Daniels?

    • David Walker

      Perhaps…if she were a nun.

      • Treant

        Even there, so what?

    • netxtown

      She didn’t target donnie. Donnie went after her.

      • Treant

        And I’m quite certain that you can find plenty of priests who went after this guy.

        Not that it matters. The other way around is simply a bit of entrapment if you were planning on writing about it and naming names. Events still proceeded the same way.

        At the very least, this guy doesn’t seem to have an NDA. Stormy definitely does.

        • Tony Adams

          The dossier is full of screen grabs and sexting images. What I find amazing is the things these priests engaged in with him. It was hardly entrapment. Maybe I shouldn’t be amazed. Horny men do things that are outrageously stupid. (Anthony Weiner.)

          • coram nobis

            “God gave man a brain, and He gave him a penis. And He gave him a blood supply insufficient to operate both at the same time.”

            It was said of Bill Clinton back in the day and it’s still a truism, it seems.

          • BobSF_94117

            Unless he told them something along the lines of, “Hey, by the way, I’m keeping all these screen shots and texts for a book I’m giving to the Archbishop”, yes, it was entrapment.

          • Tony Adams

            Actually, that is not true. The turnstile of electronic communication is entirely public.

    • Randy Ellicott

      Not Really, neither stormy nor Donny are set up as paragons of any virtues, and while you could say that Donnie has assumed the mantel of the Christian Right, even they (the christian right) cant keep a straight face while they say it… It was the way this guy is going about it, by throwing gay people everywhere under the bus for causing the corruption in the Church wither their “Gay Lobby” and other dog whistle words and phrases he used in his excuse. Stormy didn’t attack/blame anyone else, nor claim any higher purpose.

      • Treant

        OK, there you have a point.

        I was specifically discussing the “shut up” attitude shown toward this fellow and the “you go, girl” attitude toward Stormy. I wasn’t clear on that.

        It’s a level of hypocrisy shown when something is directed against a side people like versus one they don’t.

        • Randy Ellicott

          did you watch Will and Grace last night?

          • Treant

            Nope. It’s not a show I favored originally and I never bothered with the reboot.

          • Randy Ellicott

            Oh they did a part on the baker case that directly correlated to your last statment quite nicely. (Basically Grace had to defend Karen getting a MAGA Cake for the president, even though she really hated it)

          • Treant

            I’m not sure there’s really any defense for that other than defending the person who says “No, I won’t do that.” 🙂

          • Randy Ellicott

            While I think there may be an argument about the difference between denying to provide a service to a person based on sexual orientation versus a political view, i dont think that argument plays out in the end. A public business serves everyone, from the disenfranchised to the ones in power. There are accommodations that can be made, but refusing service on the grounds of political motivation is as unacceptable as refusing service on the grounds of sexual orientation, religion, or any other reason. If i was a baker i wouldn’t not be happy about making a MAGA cake and would probably just make a sheet cake and give them the icing and cheap [email protected]@ ziplock bag to use to right MAGA on it themselves….

          • Treant

            It would depend on whether Karen is now running a cake shop or simply needs to order a cake for Dumpster with MAGA on it.

            If the former, depending on the state she may be bound to do so. If the latter, she has every right to tell Dumpster where to insert his order and to get a lackey to do it.

          • Randy Ellicott

            OH, she was denied service at a bakery because she asked for a MAGA cake for a party she was throwing for the president , and Grace was trying to explain to the bakery owner that denying service to one group is the same as another group.

          • Treant

            Ah, better explanation. It would depend on NY law, of course, as to the legality, but Grace is correct on the ethics.

            Refusal of service is wrong either way–although they are allowed some leeway as to avoid having to use the word “Fuck” on a cake. That sort of thing is understandable and would be refused to any comer of any political stripe.

          • Randy Ellicott

            Exactly, though i would err on the side of inclusion and just give the client the use of icing and tools to spell the word Fuck… actually i probably wouldn’t have a problem with using the word, assuming its not for some 2 year old’s princess birthday cake….

          • Treant

            Ditto. But they’re allowed to refuse it and that’s perfectly fair by my lights.

            Similarly, making penis-shaped cakes.

            Personally, if I had the mold, I’d make nothing but.

      • Tony Adams

        Look. I questioned him about motive. He was clear about his desire to increase the volume of his voice. That said, his expose will certainly decrease his client base. It’s not like he is aging out of the roster of sexy prostitutes. He has plenty of good years left before his shelf life is over.

        • Randy Ellicott

          He said what he said and he seems smart enough to know why he is saying things in the way he is. He is using this as a platform for self promotion, nothing more and nothing less. It is no surprise to anyone that there is a large group of priests having sex with men for money or not, there is no surprise that those gay priests will use their power to protect each other out of self interest if nothing else. This guy could have come out and targeted his clients who have attacked our people, he could have handled this in any number of ways that did not use the phrasing and obvious attempts to stroke controversy for the sake of book sales. Neither you nor he should be surprised when he is being called out for attacking our community to benefit himself, just becasue he is a member of our community does not make him somehow impervious to criticism.

          • Tony Adams

            No one’s motivations for anything are completely pure. Even Ivory soap was not 100% pure. I accepted that premise going into the interview.

          • Randy Ellicott

            exactly, which is why it should not surprise anyone, particularly him, that he will face backlash for the way he did this, and the way he chose to do this was by attacking our community, our families so he could make some money. There were other options for him to expose the hypocrisy in the church that would not have cast gay men as the source of all sin and corruption…

          • Tony Adams

            Idon’t think he is much surprised by any of the consequences to his actions. That said, I don’t share your opinion that he used the gay community for his own benefit. That would be like telling Mapplethorpe to paint a vase of daisies rather than a large black penis emerging from a polyester suit, if he wanted to capture beauty.

          • Randy Ellicott

            ” I wanted to expose the ‘bad apples,’ not to throw mud at the Catholic Church but to help her get rid of the rot that contaminates the healthy part. ”
            Did he uncover just those priests that were vocal about attacking the gay community or all the priests he could? He is saying that the fact that these priests are gay is why they are bad apples. That is what the world sees him saying, he may be trying to make it more nuanced but when you use the words and phrasing that has been laid at our feet for hundreds of years to justify their attacks on us, well you reap what you sew. I am not telling him how he should have done it i am saying the way he is going about it is not helping gay people in any way, he is just reinforcing bigots views of gay people as the root of all evil.

          • Tony Adams

            You’re right. That phrase is troublesome. When I first read it, I had the opportunity to rephrase it for him (see the part about his giving me permission to brush up his English) so that is clearly made the point that he is against hypocrisy rather than gay, but I let it stand. I think if he had the chance to explain himself further, he would walk that back and replace it with something that better gets his point across.

          • Randy Ellicott

            Well he went on to talk about the “Shadowy gay lobbies,” using the terms from previous anti-gay popes and crusaders to root out all gay people as evil and corrupting the church, taken all together it paints the picture of a man out to point out how the evil gay priests are hurting mother church. I get that you dont want that to be his story, and it may not be, but that is what is coming across. He is selling the story of how the gay men are corrupting the church, not that the church is corrupting itself for the love of money and power. He chose to do this in a way that paints gay people as the bad guys, and he is doing it to make money. Fine, we all have to live and he will probably make a lot more money doing this in this way. But the rest of us out here also are allowed to call him out for painting the rest of us as corrupting, evil influences.

  • Paula

    What a tramp! The only kiss and tell that I want to hear is from Stormy Daniels.

    • The_Wretched

      March 25th is the likely 60 minutes airing.

  • Blake J Butler

    Somethings changing in these election races coming up, from sabatos crystal ball.

    http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/content/images/031518housechanges.png

    • Moebym of the Returners

      That something is the rumble of the incoming Blue Tsunami.

      • thatotherjean

        Please, let it be so.

        • JCF

          MAKE it so! democrats.org

  • There’s a reason we aren’t cast into hell for being queer in scripture.

    There’s a reason we are outlined as part of a fallen society.

    Queerness happens. As a society undergoes more pressure, more strain, according the scripture, queerness will increase, and the more to the point, queer visibility will increase.

    The Baedan collective gets into this as well in A Journal of Queer Nihilism, from a secular standpoint. Awesome queer theory lit, BTW.

    We are not the problem. We are a symptom, if anything, and a necessary one because we are also part of the solution.

    Malakoi queer males aren’t called for the reproduction/family structure laid out in scripture. We’re called to direct service to mankind (via God)

    We are optimal spiritual guides. We are artists. And since we’re among the pool of all of society’s outcast, we are each potential redeemers of mankind.

    The messiah is always drawn from the pool of the outcasts.

    As society devolves, the pool of outcasts grow larger. That means poverty, queerness, criminality, even disease, they all increase.

    What the pope shortsightedly ignores, is that the outcasts are the most important part of any human society.

    The gospels speak to this over and over and over again. As does Isaiah 53, perhaps the most important verse for Christians in the old testament.

    We are here to serve mankind, and to help restore our society, even as we are symptoms of the fall of a society, we are also its hope.

    • Tony Adams

      Yes, the messiah is always drawn from the pool of the outcasts. “Vox clamantis in deserto.”

    • Treant

      Nobody would choose me as a spirit guide unless they really like being criticized when they’re hypocritical.

      And I’m definitely not an artist. Most around here will tell you I’m an excellent artisan, but definitely not an artist.

      And trust me, as an agnostic, I’m unlikely to devote myself to service via a God I don’t see evidence of.

      Actually, the whole thing seems kind of a downer. I’m not a symptom of a falling society, I’m evidence that society is evolving and becoming more accepting over time.

      (But I’m not big on “queer theory.”)

      • first of all, i don’t that you’re malakoi. there are different types of queer male.

        second i am being necessarily general, because this is more sociology than algebra in terms of how it works.

        finally, i didn’t cover every attribute of malakoi queerness here. just enough to illustrate.

        we have a lot of abilities. and we malakoi already serve mankind, even this secular society. we design its fashion, make much of its art and music, even culinary art, and we gravitate toward spiritual roles either in a church or otherwise.

        all these are a necessarily broad spectrum category of traits that trend heavily among the subset of the population i’m talking about.

        a population which is a subset of queer males.

        so, it would be a mistake to treat any of it as precise and universal, same as it would be treat a sociology or psychiatric prescription to be universally binding.

        • Treant

          So you perceive yourself as a messiah and spiritual leader?

          • PickyPecker

            Victim.

          • Treant

            Shush, you! I’m setting a bear trap here.

          • i don’t perceive myself as a messiah, no.

            i was tapped as a spiritual guide by my faith community, so in that sense, yes, i have a responsibility there.

            but among us, in the pool of outcasts, there is messianic potential.

            just as MLK Jr rose from the pool of outcasts, and executed the role of redeemer, to help wash our society of the collective sin of anti-black racism. he was no messiah either, but he did execute the role of redeemer successfully, in that he improved the situation.

          • Treant

            So a spiritual guide, created by the fall of society as a symptom of that fall.

            Just like MLK who was, apparently, created black by the fall of society and a symptom of that fall.

            Which makes you spiritually comparable to the likes of MLK. Alrighty then.

            Is there such a thing as a victim complex coupled with a superiority complex?

          • thatotherjean

            This stuff is why I am deeply skeptical of all (whatever topic)-Theory that isn’t based in science.

          • Treant

            Egg-zactly. 🙂 People open their mouths with “queer theory” or, frankly, “feminist theory” and I zone out and think about electronic circuitry.

            At least, when I throw the switch, the little light goes on.

            The attempt to boil an entire culture or sub-culture into one pat “theory” (it isn’t, it’s a collection of unproven, disproven, or only occasionally-applicable hypotheses) simply doesn’t work. Humans, even in small groups, still show a great deal of diversity.

          • we could talk about math or engineering or circuitry or microcode if you prefer.

            i’m pretty good at some of it. set theory, lambda calculus, C++, 6502 byte code, and digital circuits.

            but it doesn’t have much to do with queerness.

          • Tulle Christensen

            oh good Today’s quiz

            main()
            {
            int i;
            int x[100];

            if(x[i] == i{x])
            printf(“hello”);
            else
            prinf(“Goodbye”);
            }

            question 1: will this compile?
            question 2: If it does what will be printed out?

          • i’m not sure the i{x} as an Rvalue will compile offhand, i’d have to look at a grammar for C to find out, but if it does, i don’t know what it would do offhand.

          • I cleaned up your code some. You had a few typos like “prinf” and a closing rparen where you need a right curly at the end of the code.

            i also added the requisite header.

            sure enough, the c compiler i’m using on ubuntu 16.04, gcc, reports the following. the i{x} expression is not a valid rvalue.

            gcc -MMD "/home/honey/test.c" -g -O0 -I"/home/honey/obj/Debug/prec/Debug" -c -o "/home/honey/bin/Debug/test.o"
            /home/honey/test.c: In function ‘main’:
            /home/honey/test.c:7:14: error: expected ‘)’ before ‘{’ token
            if(x[i] == i{x})

            #include
            int main()
            {
            int i;
            int x[100];

            if(x[i] == i{x})
            printf("hello");
            else
            printf("Goodbye");
            }

          • Treant

            Heh. I’ll take a stab. I don’t program in any C-based language so I’m interpreting it over to VB.NET and doing it that way.

            1) No. But I think the == i{x] statement should read i[x] and translate over to i(x) in VB. This could be a special expression in the C-derived languages I just don’t know about and that’s OK, or it could automatically re-dimension i as an array of length 1, which the VB compiler won’t if Option Explicit is set on.
            1a) With Option Explicit set off, I’m not sure but don’t think so; you already explicitly dimensioned i as an integer above, but I’d have to test this. I always have it on and consider non-explicit variables anathema in a language that inherits objects.

            Assuming you can trick it to compile in VB.

            2) VB will print out a casting error as it tries to use an integer as an array and vice-versa.

            2a) But if it could in VB, and if you let the casting implicity take place and don’t flip the switch on that one, it would still send an error. You never gave a type to the x[i] variable so it’s going to be a generic object with a base value of Nothing.

            2b) But if you had declared that as, in VB, Dim X[100] as Integer, you’d get “hello.” because the default value for each X is 0 and the default value for i is 0.

            (and again, your results are going to differ in every other language…)

          • i tried interpreting it that way as i was initially skimming the code, but C doesn’t allow for an overridde of operators.

            so i[x] will not compile, since it’s an indexer over a scalar value. with a good enough lexer and RT partial parser, it won’t even parse (syntax highlighting can theoretically flag the error it – the grammar itself is invalid under C rules)

            i know it’s C and not C++ because of the lack of a return type before the main function, and because it’s using stdio calls like printf.

          • adding, you’d do well to learn C#.

            since you know VB (presumably VB.NET) the learning curve isn’t as steep.

            and as someone that writes compilers, I can tell you right now, VB is a sloppy grammar.

            and that ultimately, sloppy grammar makes it harder to write complicated code.

          • If you’d like to talk about the math of the above – of queerness, we can do that, but it requires some background in systems theory, particularly complex adaptive systems theory.

            at least if you want to get to the “why” of us the evolutionary biologists are still trying to work out.

          • Treant

            BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Now you think you understand things better than the evolut…

            I can’t. I just can’t. I’m sending you to Killfile and, if you keep it up, Perma-block.

          • no i don’t think i understand things better than evolutionary biologists. i don’t study evolutionary biology.

            but i do read their conclusions, and they know that there is a reason we persist, but they haven’t worked out why.

            i don’t study evolutionary biology. I do study CAS. And CAS points to why we exist, it explains the phenomenon through a mathematical model, not a biological one.

            so it’s more an apples and oranges situation than a “i know more than evolutionary biologists” thing.

          • Tulle Christensen

            this

          • anti-black animus was a result of sins of the father. the consequences of our ancestors were visited on all of our descendants.

            it’s not that he was created black, it’s that black became “less than”

            People in the role of outcast who end up being redeemers would be comparable to MLK Jr.

            me? I’m an outcast. i haven’t done the things MLK Jr has done.

            but what i do know, is it’s not those embraced by the kingdom that end up restoring the kingdom. it’s the ones the kingdom casts out that end up doing that.

          • Treant

            BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

            Oh, I’m sorry but…BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

            Enough, more than enough. I can’t fix delusional and it’s not nice to taunt the mentally ill.

          • ah i see, you want to be accepted for your differences, but spit on those with madness.

            how do you think that will end up playing out?

          • Treant

            With you getting perma-blocked.

          • I didn’t ask how it works out where I’m concerned, i was asking about you.

            That said, block away.

            The to’evah around madness is not much different than the to’evah around queerness.

            as much as you cannot shed your feelings in that regard, you expect others to do the same where you’re concerned, even though you’re inexorably bound up in it. The anti-queer antagonists are dealing with a similar bind. As such your fates have that in common. You’re about as likely to be released from the to’evah around madness as they are to be released from their to’evah around queerness.

          • Treant

            BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

            Now your inability to communicate clearly in English without resorting to sophomoric philosophy that’s internally contradictory is my fault! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

            And apparently, my ability to pick up bullshit and discard it is also somehow a problem. Giggle.

            Boy, you could be a Republican with that attitude. They think the same.

            Perma-block, bye. Most others already did it, I’m just honest enough to tell you about it.

            Toodles.

          • I’m not the one looking for groups of people to denigrate.

            that strikes me as reactionary to the core. far more “republican” to act like a degenerate where it concerns those with madness.

            the internet is a magical place where the trash takes itself out.

            so thanks. you saved me the trouble of scrubbing your comments from my inbox.

          • PickyPecker

            Oh, c’mon. You enjoyed the Tolkien LOTR stories. This is just like that, only a bit more twisted. Maybe there’ll be a screenplay or something productive come out of it.

          • Treant

            Oh, I certainly did enjoy them! But Tolkein was writing fiction, knew he was writing fiction, and had no intent other than to entertain and make some social parallels via literary devices.

            That’s a totally different animal.

          • William

            Could you give me a couple hits of acid, I’m having trouble wading through this gibberish.

          • Tulle Christensen

            don’t worry not worth your time

          • Treant

            Ditto. Acid’s just going to make it all glowy an’ shit.

            Caffeine certainly isn’t helping, I just reject the gibberish faster.

    • The_Wretched

      um, the more tolerant and open a society, the more various subgroups are free to not hide. The % LGBTQ+ is largely static across time and populations.

      There is utterly no need to characterize us as defective or ‘symptoms of a fall’ in any way.

      • i didn’t say we’re defective. i said we’re specialized for a purpose.

        and no society on this earth has ever overcome our to’evah.

        but some societies have found a better way to live with it.

        western society isn’t very good at it, in part because pluralism is off the table.

        • The_Wretched

          Ah, I don’t subscribe to the universe having meaning or purpose and that goes to the various parts of it.

          Diversity happens due to genetics and circumstances. It’d be strange if there wasn’t sexual variety or variable life strategies in human groups. Else we’d be ants (and even they have a bazillion species).

          • i don’t care if the universe has meaning or purpose. in fact, i don’t believe it does.

            but it does have patterns and order to it.

            and there are patterns that emerge from complexity itself.

          • i dig your screen name by the way.

            maybe you’ve embraced your beautiful monsterhood, as i have.

            to own it. to make the most of it. to live it, unashamed, and beautiful.

            regardless of what the “blessed” think of the wretched.

            they are blind.

          • The_Wretched

            Thank you and I have.

          • because you know that, you should understand me when I say, the greatest human potential comes from the pool of outcasts.

            Yeshua, Gandhi, Hitler, MLK Jr, Tesla, Isaac Luria, even Donald J. Trump.

            it has nothing to do with good or bad.

            it has to do with being a change agent. with moving people or even whole societies.

            we remember history’s greatest visionaries and histories greatest monsters because of the changes they make.

            i call them all monsters, in some cases, a deliberate dysphemism, because in their time and place, they are unappreciated, even beset, and persecuted because they are DIFFICULT, MESSY, and REFUSE TO NEGOTIATE their terms of existence with ours.

            Not all of us will be widely remembered, but we are all subversive. Queer people, some artists – esp the mad ones, certain gurus like Alan Watts, all monsters.

            All of us queer people, similarly.

            And we often suffer or visit suffering on others while making our way through this world. One notable exception being the hypothetical messiah, but that’s a formula. I doubt one has ever manifested in reality that perfectly lived up to the story, the legacy, really existed. But Jesus the man *changed* people. Moved societies. Even today. What he did caused him to be remembered the way he was.

            Not so much different than Gandhi. The man was quite different than his popular legacy, but his legacy is what endures. And his actions helped craft and nurture that legacy. The legacy becomes in many cases, more powerful, more complete, more potent than the man.

            Our legacy – how we’re remembered – that is where any notion of “good” or “bad” come into play, often after we are dead.

          • The_Wretched

            I’m getting where you’re coming from and agree. It’s an issue of where you’re looking from and when you’re knee deep in perpetuation of the system, you’re less likely to notice or care about the problems or seek fixes.

          • Yes.

          • Ivan T. Errible

            Yeah, it’s too bad people ignore his racism, his fecal obsessions, and his sleeping with his teenage nieces.

          • I think you’re talking about Gandhi, I agree.

            But see, the whole point is, those things aren’t talked about by many.

            Leaving two different pictures:
            Gandhi the man
            Gandhi the legacy

            The legacy is what moves people. And it’s not limited to the man.

            and notice I also included Hitler and Jesus in that comment, because my comment was about change-agents, not necessarily good or evil.

          • I’d like to address your statements about genetics specifically.

            We keep getting created for a reason.

            Diversity feeds the part of a natural selection loop that that helps complex systems adapt to changing environment.

            This is clear in CAS models, but if you don’t have the math, you can see the same mechanics in biological evolution (which exhibits CAS properties – CAS is just the math to complex organic adapatability)

            the greater stress an ecosystem is under the more “mutants” are created among the biological lifeforms that exist in it. Stress among them creates these “mutants” and selection culls them. That accelerates adaptation when the system comes under pressure, starts to lean.

            we humans are beholden to the same thing. for all our technology and medicine, we are still organically complex beings that build organically complex things like social groupings and even government and those *same* mechanics – those same patterns of selection and mutation and stress apply to any of these things.

            the patterns emerge from organic complexity *itself*

            adaptive natural selection loops “pop up” all the time.

            queerness is one of the mechanics of one or more of these loops in our socio-evolutionary meta-CAS

            it’s all interwoven, our meat, our patterns, our societies and cultures, all exhibiting similar patterns.

            epigenetics will eventually come to confirm all of this, and is already probing the edges of it.

            and the interrelation will become more precise and more clear as time goes on.

            the reason i can know this, is not because i’m prescient or even that smart, but because i cheat. i have a crib sheet that shows me how all this works.

            it’s called Torah.

          • The_Wretched

            I was a PhD student for a number of years in the life sciences. Mutation rates are even in the absence of mutagens. Selection can get you fundamentally clonal populations in certain circumstances – long periods of stability with limited in flow of competition for example. Selection can go the other way too.

            I agree humans have not opted out of evolving or drift.

            I don’t agree that there is anything supernatural or that single texts are better than a college education.

            I do agree that there are emergent properties once you have sufficient complexity – our consciousness being one example. The relative efficiency of markets being another.

            I expect queerness for standard range reasons in biology and the relative lack of selective pressure for greater stringency in sexual mating patterns. Said differently, having queer folks does not reduce the survivability of a population. I’ll omit the longer explanation but when there isn’t a strong selective pressure for something or against something, biology and higher order social structures will tend toward diversity as diverse modes deal better with variable environments (i.e. some sub set of the population will survive the current disaster via better fitness for a rare event).

          • > I don’t agree that there is anything supernatural or that single texts are better than a college education.

            To be clear, I’ve not made either of those claims.

            I have no truck with evolutionary biology. In fact I celebrate it. But it’s not the only way to understand the pieces at work.

            I am a STEM nerd who also is a philosophy and language nerd.

            I was never a PhD candidate, but most of my friends hold advanced degrees. I’m not hostile to education. I’d encourage it. In fact, it just compliments what I’m saying.

            > . Said differently, having queer folks does not reduce the survivability of a population.

            You don’t need to explain, because I agree. We actually bolster it. But we do so from a specialized position brought about by the mechanics of evolutionary adaptation.

          • by the way, if you have access to NCBI’s publications this is fascinating article.

            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3061102/

          • we’re not disagreeing here, as far as i can tell. this might be more of a mutual intelligibility issue.

            diversity helps shake things up. in doing so it can contribute to robustness.

            outliers are not necessarily degenerate to a system. they just as easily can bolster it.

            the high-water mark of a CAS, the “deciding factor” of what outlier-agents get propagated and which do not (often based on several usually related conditions) is never precise either, and it doesn’t have to be. It just has to be successful enough to perpetuate the system.

            it’s kind of like “cheating” at roulette. If the table continues to be worked by the same agent, and you get a feel for how hard they spin and patterns of where the balls are falling, over time you can win more than you lose. and if you do that, the game survives. when you start to lose more often than win, you are teetering, and you need to change the way you play. (there is software that literally helps you do this, but that’s an aside)

            and that’s an analogy for how a CAS balances. A necessarily rough one. Systems theory isn’t a light topic, so forgive me for choosing expediency over precision.

    • Natty Enquirer

      Fanciful messianism. We’re here, we’re queer, there’s no need to dress it up in superstitious nonsense. There’s CERTAINLY no need to put homosexuality on par with poverty, criminality, and disease.

      • nothing i wrote relies on superstition. it holds irrespective of any belief in the supernatural.

        • Treant

          “([V]ia God)” is a very direct claim of the supernatural, but this one is quite easy. If it hold irrespective…then prove it.

          • no it’s not.

            see also, negative theology.

            it’s just a form philosophy, love.

          • Treant

            BWAHAHAHAHA! (wipes eyes) Again, I shouldn’t do that…but you just claimed you could prove it and then backed off from proving it!

            BWAHAHAHAHA!

            Enough. More than enough.

          • what did i claim i could prove, specifically, in the above?

          • via negativa, love.

            under such a model, God doesn’t have predicates.

    • ECarpenter

      Sorry, hon, but no, we are not a response to ” more pressure, more strain,” in society. There’s no evidence for gayness indcreasing or decreasing in hard times. All we are a “symptom” of is being ordinary humans.

      • you’re welcome to believe that.

      • Tulle Christensen

        Don’t waste your time it is just someone asserting something is true with nothing to back it up, pointing out the problems and lies contained in their clams will do nothing to sway them from their faith: that they cannot be wrong

        • Treant

          But it can be fun to poke them with a stick, like that dead guy in Stand By Me.

          The dead guy doesn’t change state, but the poker gets some fun out of it.

    • sadoldguy

      Apologist troll.

    • Ivan T. Errible

      LOL!!! Are you seriously that self-important and pseudo-mystical?
      Most gays I know are about as “sensitive” and “spiritual” as the average produce section; the reason we end up in “helping/artistic” professions is that these tend to be low status (except for some famous individuals) and marginalized jobs. Those on the margins will drift towards places where they’re tolerated and jobs like librarian/florist/clergy/the arts are low status enough to allow us to feel safe by avoiding the eye of the general public.
      If the “outcasts are the most important part of any human society”, then child molesters/rapists/heroin addicts are god’s chosen.

  • Do Something Nice

    “Mangiacapra continued that “because they know each other, help each other and support each other together with their wide circle of sympathetic friends, I do not pass judgment on priests because they are gay. I like to think that the priests who have sex with me are not souls to be saved but only hearts and minds to be liberated from their hypocrisy. Basically, my sex work is a ministry similar to that of priests, but more scrupulous.”

    What a piece of shit. I have no love for the Catholic church, but seriously, we shouldn’t make a hero out of Mangiacapra.

    • ECarpenter

      Why not? His work harms no one and brings happiness to many. And his stance against hypocritical priests is very moral and upright – no man should on the one hand condemn gay people and on the other have sex with men.

      They could choose to be social workers or some other non-religious helping profession if that is what they want to do – which would allow them to do good in the world without also doing bad, and would allow them to live their lives honestly.

      • Dazzer

        It rather depends on whether the priests are preaching against gay people. A long time back in the day, when I was a Catholic, I went to confession and admitted I’d had sex with a man.

        The priest gave me five Hail Marys as penance – which basically told me it was no big deal as far as he was concerned.

      • Do Something Nice

        Then he shouldn’t have sex with them. He has no moral standing in this.

  • safari
    • Joe in PA

      Pffft, nuclear holocaust well before we have to worry about “climate change”. 🙁

      • Tulle Christensen

        I do not agree, because of these two words

        positive feedback

    • Treant

      Geez, and I remember when it was a piddling 400. You know, less than five years ago.

    • JCF
  • Slippy_World
  • safari
    • thatotherjean

      Another dead Russian IN BRITAIN. This is going to have consequences. At a minimum, it will test Trump’s commitment to NATO, if Theresa May calls for help.

      • J Ascher

        Especially since the US is the only NATO member ever to invoke the mutual defense provision (after 9/11).

    • sadoldguy

      Let me guess, died after falling out window, twice.

    • Slippy_World

      Someone took the liberty of posting the menu *outside* the #Russian🇷🇺Embassy in the U.K. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/10de1c2ad408664e116626ea94a9e434a8a481cc4f985e33632d318567b81d27.jpg

  • ‘Til Tuesday

    I read the full interview. This comment stood out:

    “I released this dossier because I wanted to expose the ‘bad apples,’
    not to throw mud at the Catholic Church but to help her get rid of the
    rot that contaminates the healthy part.”

    To which I would say – there is no “healthy part” of the Catholic Church or any religion. It’s all superstition.

  • Blake J Butler
    • JCF

      Teh Kewt, it burns!!! <3<3<3

  • JWC

    Wow, between Stormy and this chap, the seat of the mighty are heating up In so many ways its delicious

  • coram nobis

    Apropos of this fellow and Stormy, it’s worth remembering King Lear: “He’s mad who places his trust in the tameness of a wolf, a horse’s health, a boy’s love, or a whore’s oath.”

  • ambert

    If the “healthy part” is equating homosexuality with sin, then it’s still unhealthy actually.

  • Leo
    • Treant

      Please. Grifters gotta grift. Most will adjust.

      The few who might quit would simply be replaced by less-capable people since nobody competent wants to work there.

    • PickyPecker
    • The_Wretched

      I can’t believe they are arguing over who gets to be the next WH pump.

    • JCF

      Who gets the Official Defiance Desk Knee Pads????

  • Ninja0980

    Hope he made good money hooking up with these sad self-loathing fools.

  • Leo

    OT3. Speculation Vanessa’s lawyer is more for Mueller than the prenup.
    https://twitter.com/juliakmarsh/status/974422586070306818?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

    • BobSF_94117

      She’s not contesting custody? Whoa. That’s weird.

      • Randy Ellicott

        she knows he’s going to jail and she will get the kids?

        • alc2018

          the kids and most of his money

          • Randy Ellicott

            My guess is that a lot of the money will be placed in trusts for the kids so that the trumpies have time to mold the kids to do what they want…

  • Hue-Man

    Sorry to O/T so early but this sickened me. All their family members should be locked up permanently. NYT
    Dylann Roof’s Sister Arrested After Bringing Weapons to School Walkout

    Ms. Roof’s Snapchat post criticized students who planned to walk out of class to protest gun violence. “I hope it’s a trap and y’all get shot,” it said. “We know it’s fixing to be nothing but black people walkin out anyway.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/15/us/morgan-roof-dylann-roof.html

  • Max_1
    • The_Wretched

      Catchy isn’t it?

      • Max_1

        Fuckin’ fuck the fuck it fuckin is…

  • stanhope

    His look just radiates big dick! That never fails to bring a priest to his knees. Somebody should do the blacklight test in the bedrooms of the parsonage…more ‘evidence’ than an orgy at MAL

  • Kevin Andrews

    Another self-hating homosexual. Does anyone really think that the prurient interests are not front and center in this collection of allegations by a prostitute?
    Of course the Catholic Church is corrupt and as Gay as a Goose.
    There is no news here. There is just a vindictive need to strike fear into humans with normal sexual interests. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/15e0546972cbe63a4322284104268dd85c6cca3ec7ee9c1b3f87563859a0f047.png

    • i’m not sure if he hates himself, or if he is just lost, but i agree he made a mistake here.

      and i agree with you if you mean that everyone already knows the church is corrupt, and outing gay people involved in the church just harms said gay people more than it will ever harm the church.

    • James

      I don’t know where you see self-hatred. He doesn’t appear conflicted about his own sexuality or anyone else’s.

      • stevenj

        I think his point is that he’s a rat himself. In order “to help her get rid of the rot that contaminates the healthy part”.

  • Prost Seattle

    He must either do his kegels or has a drawstring.

  • SilasMarner

    “not to throw mud at the Catholic Church but to help her get rid of the rot that contaminates the healthy part.” Sweety, it’s all rotten, there is no healthy part.

  • Wisterley

    When a commenter at SFNews goes off on the readers here at JMG, ending with a crack about not being able to criticize IS-lam (sic), Father Tony replies:

    “I know! I just spent more than an hour in the comments section of JoeMyGod – at Joe’s suggestion. Some of those folks are rabid, and it’s become an outback of aggrieved reactionaries. That said, I stuck it out long enough to elucidate a few things and to add to what was disclosed in the interview. You have to have extremely thick skin to write for the LGBT media. A small subset of your readers are like a pack of mad dogs. You have to write for them as well as for the readers you might like to meet and spend time with.”

    • stevenj

      When you consider that the Catholic Church has spent time and money fighting LGBT people for decades….I’m not sure what a retired gay Catholic priest expects.

    • Tony Adams

      Dear Wisterley, I stand by my comment about this becoming an “outback of aggrieved reactionaries.” It is now a community that has given itself license to verbally shun outsiders and to go “O/T” in a very egotistical and ADD way. What could have become a useful discussion of Catholic hierarchical bigotry swiftly devolved into a slut-shaming and aggrieved gay cannibalism. (I am unacquainted with the commenter you quote, but I did respond to his comment.)

  • eddiebeskeddie

    there is nothing wrong with male clergy having sex with other male clergy. No there is not. what IS wrong: is preaching for decades that male on male sex is wrong all the while, while doing it. What IS wrong is for pushing for laws to condemn it while still doing it. What is wrong is cherry picking verses and twisting them into something that is normal and making it in-normal all while doing it. And why do they still have male on male sex? because it’s normal.