Pulse Massacre Gunman’s Wife: I Knew In Advance

USA Today reports:

A handwritten statement given to the FBI by the wife of Pulse nightclub gunman Omar Mateen says she saw him prepare for the deadly attack for months and knew that the LGBT nightclub was his target.

The 12-page statement, quietly released by federal authorities at the end of December in a batch of records in the case, was taken hours after the June 12, 2016 shooting. The attack left 49 dead and dozens of others injured. Noor Salman was questioned for hours, without a lawyer, after authorities learned her husband was the gunman behind the attack.

She was arrested last year on federal charges of providing material support to a terrorist and tampering with evidence but has pleaded not guilty, claiming she was suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. She said Mateen abused her and claims she did not know of his plot.

But her defense conflicts with the signed statement she gave to the FBI, which details her knowledge of Mateen’s planning and his path to carry out an attack on behalf of the Islamic State.

The Orlando Sentinel reports:

After hearing testimony Thursday and Friday, a federal judge will decide whether jurors will see statements the widow of the Pulse nightclub shooter made to FBI agents the day of the attack.

Noor Salman is facing charges of aiding a foreign terrorist organization and obstruction of justice. Her husband, Omar Mateen, killed 49 people and injured dozens more at Pulse nightclub on June 12, 2016, and was shot and killed by police after a three-hour standoff.

Her attorneys argued that everything she told the FBI in the hours after the attack should be excluded from trial because she was in custody and not given proper Miranda warnings. US attorneys argued that she was not in custody, free to leave at any time, and that all her statements were voluntary.

Judge Paul Byron said Friday that he would read over testimony, review evidence and announce his decision in a written order. He did not say when he expects to release that order.

Also from the Orlando Sentinel:

A Miami psychologist and expert on false and coerced confessions will be allowed to testify in the trial for the Pulse nightclub shooter’s widow.

Bruce Frumkin is likely to testify that Noor Salman’s statements to the FBI in the hours after the shooting June 12, 2016 — that she knew about her husband’s planned attack — were not true.

“I knew when he left the house he was going to Orlando to attack the Pulse Night Club,” Salman said, according to a statement written by an FBI agent and signed by Salman during the 18-hour interview.

U.S. Judge Paul Byron ruled in the defense’s favor Friday to allow Frumkin to testify, Salman’s lawyer Charles Swift said. The hearing was closed to the public.

  • Boreal

    Lock this bitch up. 50 people are dead because she knew and did nothing. I hope she dies in jail.

  • hdtex

    WHAT the actual FUCK?

  • Bluto

    She could have prevented 50 murders, did nothing & now wants leniency & sympathy. HELL NO!

    • ted-

      Fry her in court!

      • RaygunsGoZap

        Ешьте дерьмовый тролль

        • Sporkfighter

          There’s obviously some history here I don’t know about.

          • RaygunsGoZap

            Maybe I misread the comment?

          • Sporkfighter

            Does ted have a history as a troll? Could be, but that would be history I’m not familiar with.

          • Dramphooey

            I think there was a lot of anger this morning at this news which is understandable. For some reason I think my reaction this morning to one of his comments was “what’s that supposed to mean?,” too.

        • HandsomeMrToad

          Есть ли разница между словами “дерьмо” и “говно”?

    • another_steve

      Unless she suffers from a mental impairment, she definitely needs to go to prison.

      I hope we don’t start hearing a “battered spouse syndrome” defense of her silence. I remember discussions of that here on JMG shortly after the massacre occurred.

      Unless she’s mentally ill, that “defense” was bullshit then and is bullshit today.

      • Bluto

        Agree. I have no trouble believing she was abused by her husband & for that I deeply sympathize, but that is inexcusable as a reason to remain silent. As for mental illness, it would take extreme cognitive deficiency to not recognize her husband’s intent. That I don’t believe.

      • JP

        Not condoning her behavior,but as a survivor of domestic abuse you’d be surprised with how your mind can be temporarily warped. People expect victims, REAL VICTIMS or abuse to act rationally and that’s often not possible as they are in an emotional/physical battlefield.

      • SFHarry

        There is also a difference between fighting back and killing your abuser and aiding in the murder of 50 people. I don’t know the legal difference but feel pretty clear on the moral difference.

  • Dramphooey

    How is this Frumkin piece of shit going to testify this was coerced? This isn’t “okay, I knew he was planning it.” The writing is a detailed narrative. We’re supposed to believe she was coerced into writing a novel?

    • Xiao Ai: The Social Gadfly

      The judicial system is a farce anyway you look at it. But, the idea that someone can provide an “expert” testimony is probably one of the more abusive, coercive tools out there. Juries fall for it more often than not.

    • band

      The tightness and specificity of the narrative in the signed statement actually makes me MORE suspicious of law enforcement, not less. IMHO, it sounds as if it has more to do with what law enforcement wanted it to say than with whatever Salman told them.

      • Dramphooey

        I read it and it rings true to me. From personal experience I think one gives as complete a story as possible because one wants to cooperate and one thinks the whole truth will exonerate. The only part to which I raised an eyebrow was the part written by another hand because she was too nervous to write.

    • Sporkfighter

      18 hours in police custody without a lawyer. How much of what she wrote is what she knew walking in and how much was she told as part her “interview”, then pressured to write? I don’t know and neither do you.

      A fair trial is important; leave show trials to Russia.

  • CanuckDon

    I’m absolutely sickened by this.

  • JoeMyGod

    In her statement, she says her husband asked if he “looks Spanish” before he left.

    It was Latino Night at Pulse.

    • gaycuckhubby

      Sickening

    • BlackGayVeganAtheist

      As Joe has said, YOU ALL should read the 12 pages as I have and I feel that she knew and was looking for an insurance payment…

      Omar Mateen, 29, added his wife, 30-year-old Noor Salman, to his life-insurance policy and gave her access to his bank accounts, CNN reported on Friday, citing unidentified law-enforcement sources.

      • margaretpoa

        Not relevant to the discussion about whether or not her rights were violated. Totally and completely not relevant. Despicable people have rights too. Much as we might condemn this lady, and I do, vigorously, we can’t deny anyone due process simply because of the nature of their crime. That’s what they do in banana Republics.

        • Dramphooey

          Where did he suggest she should be denied due process?

          • Sporkfighter

            If she was held and questioned for 18 hours without a lawyer, that alone is a violation of due process. Maybe she didn’t ask for one, but it’s a near certainty that one was not clearly and unambiguously offered, nor was she clearly and unambiguously told she was free to leave at any time.

            None of that means she’s not guilty, but a conviction I can’t be sure of is a travesty; such a conviction serves nobody.

        • BlackGayVeganAtheist

          However YOUR comment is speculation that her rights were violated

          • Ron Robertson

            I don’t think she’s saying her rights were violated, just that she can’t be denied due process. And she’s right, we do need to have due process. Unfortunately, the full weight of the law seems only to apply to people without connections. Look at how much law breaking was going on in presidential administrations without repercussions. That’s the evil that Gerald Ford did when he pardoned Nixon, making people of that level above the law. That said, I think you’re right, Noor probably did know, but I believe she must be afforded full due process.

          • Dramphooey

            People are expressing anger and disgust at this testimony. Do some people think some of us here are actually forming a lynch mob?

          • BlackGayVeganAtheist

            People like to assert arguments because we have SEEN and HEARD the worst of law officials but alas that is NOT the predominate reality in many cases and needs to given clemency here on his message board

          • leastyebejudged

            lol, cops lie. They lie all the time. They are trained to lie. It’s legal for them to lie. Shove your clemency. Shove it hard.

          • Silver Badger

            I applaud you. The problem is that the police are much more severe when they know the suspect can’t fight back. For instance, in many places, breathing while being gay is a death penalty offence. Much like driving, or for that matter, walking, while being black.

          • BlackGayVeganAtheist

            However, being gay and assaulted typically comes from an outside force (someone else victimizes us) and NOT the police…unlike being black it is NOT known if someone is gay in most cases and can easily be “hidden away”…I can not put on a new face/skin color NO matter how hard I try…

          • Silver Badger

            Things are better now, but I can remember well when the police either looked the other way or actively participated in the assault. You don’t have to be gay to be presumed gay.

          • Sporkfighter

            “Presumed innocent” is the foundation of any worthy judicial system. Cops should never be given a pass, no more than a doctor, teacher, mechanic, or homeless bum.

          • Sporkfighter

            Her rights may or may not have been violated, but the fact that she was questioned for 18 hours without a lawyer and only at the end did this confession emerge is suspicious enough to warrant a closer look.

            A fair trial is important. This has the smell of a Soviet show trial. That doesn’t mean she’s not guilty, only that a meaningful conviction is impossible in a kangaroo court.

        • BurningTongues

          If it turns out that she DID know in advance and she ends up getting off because the FBI was stupid and denied her due process, they will have cost the victims’ families the only chance at justice that they will ever have. That is the real tragedy here.

          • margaretpoa

            Fully agreed. I wouldn’t like to see her walk but only marginally less than I would like to her rights violated.

      • Cestrum Nocturnum

        She was also the victim of domestic violence & is said to be intellectually slow and has a small child to raise and no job skills.

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4228662/Noor-Salman-EXTREME-danger-Omar-Mateen.html

  • Leo

    There’s some families of victims based on at least what I’ve seen/read that want to be in this for the long haul (we’re talking YEARS) and are livid at this presumption of a coerced confession and others that just want to move on. The whole situation, goes without saying, is just really sad.

  • JoeMyGod

    My mother lives several blocks from Pulse and tells me that more than 18 months later she still sees crowds paying their respects when she drives by.

    • ted-

      My university diversity center still mourn for their loss…

      • RaygunsGoZap

        Ha! Everyone knows Trump U doesn’t have a diversity Center. Nice try, troll.

        • ted-

          WTF. And the only reason why he was never convicted for that scam university was because he stole private loans, not federal. I work for the government.

        • gaycuckhubby

          Huh? Did u miss something?

        • ted-

          What hell are you talking about?! Learn to read. I never said I worked for that scam university. I work for a CA state university, dummy.

    • CanuckDon

      This is why re-opening it as a club again would have been disrespectful.

      • I couldn’t even imagine anyone going in if they had re-opened

        • Marsha

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  • JoeMyGod
    • BlackGayVeganAtheist

      I did and commented as such…this was released yesterday

      • Bambino

        That’s the point of contention. The 12 pages written under 18 hours of interview is for the judge who should have all the information to decide whether she had written the confession under duress.

        • band

          The claims of the written statement being coerced, the fact that she had not been read her Miranda rights, and the allegations that her relationship with her husband was abusive are all very serious matters for the judge to consider.

          I hope law enforcement didn’t fuck up this part of the investigation by trampling the rights of a critical witness—and possible accomplice.

          • Bambino

            Miranda rights aside, I assume by now she has a representation is how well or how effective her attorney can relate her abusive relationship with her husband as a defense.

          • Silver Badger

            Yep. A good lawyer is much more important then actual culpability. Even so, keeping an open mind is of primary importance.

          • band

            Yes. If the judge rules this statement admissable, Salman’s only viable defense will be that she was so abused she didn’t dare to cross Mateen by going to the authorities.

          • StudioTodd

            Who, in this day and age, doesn’t know that they have the right to remain silent and the right to have an attorney present at questioning?

          • band

            More people than you’d think, which is precisely why the Supreme Court has ruled Miranda warnings mandatory, in order to preserve a suspect’s or witness’s Fifth and Sixth Amendment rights.

          • StudioTodd

            Miranda warnings were made mandatory several decades ago, before the police procedurals and cop dramas on TV became ubiquitous. I’ll bet that most people can recite the Miranda warning from memory these days.

            Not saying cops shouldn’t give the warning when they arrest someone, but to claim ignorance of those rights is just not believable.

          • band

            Except that some people ARE ignorant of those rights. To suggest that every adult in the country has a firm understanding of those rights is preposterous.

            And even a person who thinks they’re familiar with Miranda warnings may feel clueless about exactly what their rights are when they suddenly find themself being interrogated by law enforcement and it may be very unclear what your status is. Am I a witness? A suspect? Am I under arrest? Am I free to go? And we know officers frequently exploit that uncertainty.

          • StudioTodd

            So if a person is “familiar” with the Miranda warning, yet feels “clueless” about what their rights are while they are being interrogated, then what good is the Miranda warning in the first place?

            Police will exploit any opportunity to get a person to say something incriminating. That’s a given. They can lie, they can obfuscate, they can exaggerate–they can say almost anything as long as it’s not a promise or a threat. That’s why you don’t talk to cops.

            With that said, she was not under arrest and she was able to leave at any point (until she admitted to criminal involvement and was arrested)–so why didn’t she just shut up and leave? She’s not an imbecile–she was not unaware that she could demand an attorney. She just thought she could outsmart the cops and make them feel sorry enough for her that they would ignore her complicity.

            I will never understand why a person who comes in voluntarily does not not shut up and walk out the door the moment cops start to to yell at them and accuse them of crimes.

        • BlackGayVeganAtheist

          As they move forward a judge will make that judgment however my feelings are mine and do not hold up in court nor punish someone on trial that I am NOT connected to therefore I am free to have them

          • gaycuckhubby

            Yes you are!

  • BlackGayVeganAtheist

    She is an accessory to murder and should be punished to the fullest extent of our laws. While I hear but do not fully support the PTSD claim, she needs to be held accountable.

    She clearly could’ve done more to alert authorities.

    However, I truly think she was looking for a cash pay out from his death as she was the sole beneficiary.

    This was her scheme at the cost of 50 lives and untold mental and physical anguish.

  • Treant

    OT: Apparently I kept my husband up; I’d get cold and shivery and snuggle up, then go into overheat and sweat all over him. He’s in the guest bedroom asleep while I wash the sheets from my sweaty overnight adventure.

    It’s a good time to start on his birthday gift. He likes the cheap-ass, hyper-stripping, no-recipe-required melt and pour. Fortunately, I just got Purple Vibrance mica from Nurture Soap. I also used 2 grams of oatmeal per bar.

    This is one of the most beautiful colors I’ve ever worked with, and the photo here doesn’t do it justice. It’s deep royal purple with incredible shimmer from the mica. I’ll see if I can get a better one once the bars are solid and out. The scent is lavender.

    I also made dahlia-shaped soap but the photo isn’t so nice.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4d0fcd0fcab5c7dc8afc23d39b15433a7915c3ba64e56fa6a1a1325df3edd3a9.jpg

    • Rebecca Gardner

      If you cut them in half are they Black Dahlia soaps?

      • alguien

        i see what you did there

        • AC

          you and everyone else

          • Lars Littlefield

            Not “everyone”, I think. 🙂

      • Treant

        You’re gonna laugh, but I did add a bit of black iron oxide to several of the bars and mentally called them “black dahlia.”

        IRL, they’re almost the exact color of the Thomas A. Edison dahlia.

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4526444f40a6d2c6b6eb2869bbf380528b616f09dac028b3adf8b708313605f6.jpg

        • Boreal

          That was a showstopper in my garden this year.

          • Treant

            Ditto. Although the Sun Lady was a close competitor.

      • skyweaver

        My first laugh of the day

    • iambu

      Beautiful! Well done!

    • Todd20036

      Night sweats could be indicative of an infection. Are they “regional” or does your entire body sweat?

      Do the sheets get soaked?

      • Treant

        Everything, and you could wring water out of my pajamas when they’re done.

        In my case, they’re fairly common. When my fever breaks, I sweat. And today is 99.5 and slowly dropping, so I think we’re seeing the beginning of the end.

    • Grumpy Old Man

      Hmmm – I wonder if I can use mica in my glass things?! I bet I can – where the hell do I get mica? https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1854389836b99c9226030f4d71142cf1b147aae3ea70f36b978cbfa59c95cd6c.jpg Some of these are my grotesques but I am too lazy to look any further for pics (and photography is not my direction).

      • Treant

        On? Natch. In? Not sure…if you cast glass, I don’t know if the mica or the colorants will handle that level of heat?

        https://nurturesoap.com/collections/soap-stable-micas

        Regardless, I get my soap making micas here, although my standards are probably higher than you require; particles no larger than 60 um, cosmetic safe colors, and pH tolerant to 13.5.

        • Grumpy Old Man

          I got a note back saying that I probably could but I would need to test it – will do and post a pic of how the concept worked out.

  • Rebecca Gardner

    This is why you never ever speak to the police. It was probably coerced after she was denied access to water, food, for 10 to 12 hours and yelled at by three cops at the same time.

    https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE

    • Natty Enquirer

      Just because you can imagine it doesn’t make it true.

      • margaretpoa

        No indeed but would you put up with 18 hours in a chair being asked questions over and over by police if you were “free to leave”? I have to be honest with myself, if I thought I was really, truly free to leave, I wouldn’t put up with it for even two hours.

        • Natty Enquirer

          I agree with you. However, it has not been established that Noor was denied food and water and yelled at.

          • BlackGayVeganAtheist

            Therefore Rebecca’s comment is a convenient argument…

          • margaretpoa

            I haven’t claimed that she was denied anything. But that’s not even relevant. If she was not read her rights or not specifically told she was “free to leave at any time”, then the confession could be viewed as coerced.
            I’m not defending this lady specifically but rather all of our rights as Americans. We can’t ignore those rights because somebody did something especially despicable. It’s far too short a road from denying the despicable their rights to denying anybody Trump dislikes their rights.

        • Rebecca Gardner

          You say that now. Be questioned about a serious crime and see if you’re calm enough to tell the cops, “I want my attorney.” People feel two things. 1. that they MUST talk to the cops and 2. that exercising your 5th amendment right is an automatic confession of guilt.

          Seriously, watch the video I posted.

          • margaretpoa

            Precisely my point. She probably didn’t know she could demand to speak with an attorney, much less that she could get up and leave whenever she wanted.

          • canoebum

            Another advantage for the cops: if you ask to leave and they don’t let you, then ask for a lawyer to be present before any questioning, they’ll lock you in a cell until a lawyer can be found, which could be many hours or even days. Most people don’t want to sit in a cell and wait, so they decide to try to talk themselves free.

          • Bambino

            Especially if you have no money and depending on unreliable public defender.

        • BlackGayVeganAtheist

          Exactly, who would not leave if they were innocent

    • Dramphooey

      “Admit it! Admit it! Admit that he once asked you if he ‘looks Spanish.'”

    • band

      It’s sad to see so many commenters here reacting in anger to the (understandably very inflammatory) content of the written statement, when the veracity and admissability of the statement are, at the moment, very much in question.

      Thank you, Rebecca, for keeping that fact front and center.

    • MaryJOGrady

      Thank you for posting this. It is absolutely true. It reminds me of the mock-documentary episode of “Homicide: Life on the Streets” they got the brilliant documentarian Barbara Kopple to direct. At one point in that episode, three seasoned detective characters show off the interview room and point out, “We are not your friends,” and go on to explain why no one they take in that room should ever, ever talk to any of them without an attorney.

    • perversatile

      First Rule- Don’t Talk to the Police
      2nd Rule- Don’t Talk to the Police.
      Thank you Rebecca

      INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES
      https://www.cga.ct.gov/2014/rpt/2014-R-0071.htm

      Brought to you by:
      John E. Reid & Associates.
      Remember our motto~
      ”Everyone’s Guilty of Something”
      https://www.reid.com/

  • Bambino

    An observation base on two points from the legal perspective.
    – US attorneys argued that she was not in custody, free to leave at any time, and that all her statements were voluntary.
    -“I knew when he left the house he was going to Orlando to attack the Pulse Night Club,” Salman said, according to a statement written by an FBI agent and signed by Salman during the 18-hour interview.
    If one is not being charged and free to leave at any time, it does not make sense anyone would be willing to stay for 18 hours for an interview guilt or no guilt.

    • Natty Enquirer

      The question is whether a reasonable person person would believe they were in custody or free to go. Everything will hinge on that.

      • Bambino

        That’s the tricky part when FBI and police are known to vaguely informing legal rights to person of interest.

        • Natty Enquirer

          That’s why any defense lawyer will tell you to ask, repeatedly, “Am I free to go?” Unless the answer is an immediate “yes,” then you are being detained or in custody.

          • margaretpoa

            But she had no lawyer and claims that she wasn’t Mirandized.

          • Natty Enquirer

            Yes, and that’s why the cops are claiming she was there voluntarily, which would moot those points.

          • margaretpoa

            No they wouldn’t “moot” anything legally speaking. Any lawyer worth his or her pay would subpoena any video or written documentation taken of her being informed of her rights and she waiving them. If they can’t produce that, it never happened.

          • Bambino

            Many of us never been haul to a police station let alone FBI office to be questions. We watch a lot of shows and movies. But when it actually happen in a real situation, we are often get caught and not know what to do as investigators are good at soothing and easing person of interest to talk not fully understanding the “game” they are playing.

          • Natty Enquirer

            Well then, many of us had better wise up since we function daily in a society where we may be arrested at any time, rightly or not. The “Don’t Talk to Police” video is well worth watching.

          • Bambino

            Yes here in JMG we might learn a few things. Believe it or not in the larger community outside not many are aware or prepared to deal with such situation. Panic can make people who are otherwise smart not think logically.

          • margaretpoa

            Exactly. It’s very intimidating and sadly not very many people know their rights.

          • margaretpoa

            Yes. They are professionals and have been long practiced before they conduct their first witness interview.

      • Bambino

        18 hours does not sounds like a free to go situation. Heck! I would not even stay over on a sleep clinic for 10 hours to test my sleep pattern let alone volunteering 18 hours of questioning by the FBI.

    • Rebecca Gardner

      But innocent people do that all day, every day, and end up in prison. Watch the video below. Any cop worth their badge will get you to do exactly that with the greatest of ease.

      • Bambino

        That’s my point. If she is guilty I hope she rot in jail. I just don’t like sloppy and lazy investigators bungled an investigation for a quick closure on a case.

      • William

        Too many innocent morons go in to “answer a few questions” and 20 hours of questioning later are charged with murder.

        The first thing you should ask the cops is “Am I under arrest?” If the answer is yes, don’t say anything until a lawyer arries.

        • MaryJOGrady

          This is a vital truth to remember!
          Thank you, William!

          • William

            I was fortunate enough to learn the lesson in high school. They told me to confess to something I didn’t do, so a teacher could save face.

            I refused.

          • MaryJOGrady

            I am so sorry you had to go through that,

  • margaretpoa

    Much as I hate to say it in this case, that confession should not be entered into evidence. It’s just the cops once again trying to skirt the law. An 18 hour interview which only ended when she made that statement and the cops say that she was “free to go at any time” long after the fact. But if she was free to go, why did the interview last 18 hours? I wouldn’t put up with two hours of it if I was really free to go.

    • Hank

      Why did Hilary have to sit for 11 hours in front of Congress???

      • margaretpoa

        She didn’t. But that’s not even analogous to this case. Not by a long way.

        • Hank

          I left off the “snark”

          • margaretpoa

            Ah!

  • Halou

    “Noor Salman was questioned for hours, without a lawyer, after authorities learned her husband was the gunman behind the attack.”

    I can see a problem with that. Whether she is guilty or not, extracting a confession from someone without any legal representation is bad practice and dangerous.

    • gaycuckhubby

      If she was properly giving her rights and decided not to have an attorney there then it’s fine.

      • margaretpoa

        But now she claims she wasn’t informed of her rights. If she wasn’t informed, she couldn’t waive them. If the police have video of them reading her her rights and a document signed by her waiving them, then her confession is valid. Lacking those things and it has to be suppressed.

        • BlackGayVeganAtheist

          I do not think they would NOT have videotaped her from beginning to end without the asking of a lawyer being clearly documented as if was not then they were wasting their time and making it easy for the case to be thrown out…

          • gaycuckhubby

            Let’s just hope they did due diligence

          • margaretpoa

            Exactly. And I’m sure the judge will ask for waivers and video while deciding the issue.

          • Bambino

            In the real world not all cops or FBI practice due diligence like an episode of Major Crimes.

          • BlackGayVeganAtheist

            A high profile case like this…I am sorry I choose to disagree…this for some people is a career maker and they were NOT going to FUCK IT up

        • gaycuckhubby

          Agreed.

        • StudioTodd

          Again, in this day and age, when every other show on television is a cop show, who doesn’t know that they have the right to remain silent and the right to have an attorney present during questioning? I would bet almost everyone can recite the warning from memory.

      • William

        Not many people volunteer to be interrogated by police for 18 hours.

        That said, she should receive a fair trial and be sentenced to life in prison.

    • BlackGayVeganAtheist

      If she knew to pack up and leave the area after this HORRIBLE event then she knew that she could have an attorney…

      This woman is an American and knows the laws…hell how many CSI shows and Law and Order Shows is this fact front and center…

      She was born here and was married twice so she knows our basic laws and provisions… do not let her “name” fool you into thinking she immigrated her….that is a LIE…

      • margaretpoa

        CSI and Law and Order aren’t documentaries.
        You know that, right?

        • Karl Dubhe 2

          True, but their function is more propaganda rather than mere entertainment. The state was always right, when I was watching them. It made me wonder…

        • BlackGayVeganAtheist

          Yep…but the OJ case was televised from beginning to end…

      • JAKvirginia

        “This woman is an American and knows the laws…”. Flaw in your logic. (Re: Roy Moore.) Most Americans are clueless about the law. Sorry, but true.

        • BlackGayVeganAtheist

          Nope I do not buy that…if she can flee and not talk to the police then she knows something and is culpable…also she left her son…something does not add up!!!

          At a Fort Pierce home where members of the Mateen family were believed to have gathered inside, Seddique Mateen — father of the Orlando massacre shooter Omar Mateen — said Wednesday morning that Omar’s wife Noor Salman was “no longer here” and that she was no longer in the area. He would not say where she had gone.

          Reporters were outside the house again Wednesday after also gathering there Tuesday.

          At about noon, St. Lucie County sheriff’s deputies arrived, went into the house for a few minutes, then left. The deputies who came and went did not comment.

          Seddique Mateen, who also has been giving media interviews from his Port St. Lucie home, asked reporters to leave the Fort Pierce house and said Noor Mateen was not inside. He alluded to other family members being there, but didn’t say who was inside.

          He condemned his son’s actions and the acts of the Islamic State group.

          He also said Omar Mateen’s young son has been asking for his father.

          “This morning my grandson was asking for his father, so that really hurt me really bad,” Seddique Mateen said. “And I was thinking about the families of the victims. They have kids and they lost their loved ones.”

        • BlackGayVeganAtheist

          Also Roy Moore is NOT a litmus test for America…he was and still is an idiot…I feel that she ran and got her bearings after this horrible event that she apparently knew about and attempted to make sense of her role and what could happen to her

  • Chris Gardner

    What would garner more attention… to attack Downtown Disney or a nightclub? That’s the stupidest bullshit I’ve ever heard. An attack on a Disney property would have rocked the US and the world more than some tiny gay bar. It is obvious that for him, this was not about any so-called holy war or whatever. He was gay and it ate him up to the point that he had to lash out and hurt those for whom he had a love/hate “relationship”. News reports have said he had been going to Pulse for weeks if not months. People there knew him. If only he could have accepted himself and not became the monster which killed so many people and victimized hundreds more.

    • gaycuckhubby

      According to the FBI that’s not true. They found that most people who said they saw him we’re mistaken, as is often the case in traumatic instances. And found no evidence in any of his electronic devices that he was anything but 100% straight

      • Natty Enquirer

        You can be gay without having homosex.

        • gaycuckhubby

          Right, but zero gay pornography? But lots of straight dating apps and pornography.

          • Natty Enquirer

            The closet can be that deep and paranoid.

          • gaycuckhubby

            So just a gut feeling that that is what is going on?

          • Silver Badger

            It’s really a moot point. Him being painted as a closet case could be a way of demonizing him by the straight press. Him being a closet case also underlines the RWNJ mantra of mental illness endemic in gays.

          • gaycuckhubby

            Exactly

  • gaycuckhubby

    interesting side note, after the attack many guy said that they saw him on gay dating apps and that he was closeted. Apparently there was all just confusion in the fog of War. The FBI has gone through all his electronic devices, and found that he was having multiple affairs with women and on various dating apps all searching for women not one shred of evidence that he was gay. No gay pornography and no gay dating apps.

    • Dramphooey

      I remember that. I recall Raw Story posted video of some heavily made up fool who claimed to have sex with him and as soon as I saw that video I knew it was bullshit. Some people have no shame.

    • margaretpoa

      I have no doubt he was abusive and almost certainly a self loathing closet case. He was clearly twisted.

  • anne marie in philly

    then WHY THE FUCK didn’t she go to the police sooner? BITCH! she’s guilty of premeditated MURDER!

    • margaretpoa

      That’s a valid question and she claims abuse and intimidation. Those aren’t excuses by any means but millions of women are abused and intimidated by their husbands. Look at all the women who voted for the Groper in Chief.

    • Friday’s_cat

      Ask republicans who cut funding for abused spouse shelters.

  • Silver Badger

    If this woman was indeed suffering from PTSD, the 18 hour police interrogation was just one more horrific attack and she would have said or signed anything to make it stop. She could have been running on autopilot, doing what ever she was asked, out of fear and brain washing. We know of what the police are capable of and we know what Mateen was capable of. Is vengeance really worth it.

    • Bambino

      Deprive of contact with family or friends or representation, intentionally placed in a small room with no free use of washroom, food and drink is not exactly free will. Not in those setting.

    • BJORN RAGNVALDR

      Thats why I’m reserving opinion until more is known.

    • leastyebejudged

      Cops do these things to traumatized people all the time.

      They do it with full awareness and intent.

      I’m not sure who’s worse.

  • Achilles Tsakiridis

    It should be a place of reflection … non commercial in any way .

  • Friday’s_cat

    The state of Pennsylvania had a money making scheme dear to Edward “Fast Eddie” Rendell robbing Atlantic City winners of their cash. State cops would cruise Pa roads used by motorists leaving New Jersey casinos looking for suspected winners. Given enough time any driver will do something that gives cops PC for a traffic stop. Once the trooper has the unsuspecting driver in their clutches they engage using a specially prepared script written to get permission to search the vehicle. Once they find the cash the trooper confiscates it under RICO law for drug testing. Thing is all money has traces of coke.

    • Silver Badger

      Still? I thought meth was now the drug of choice? Don’t know, but you sure don’t here as much about cocaine as much as you used to.

      • Treant

        That was back with Rendell; 2003 to 2011. Although the reign of meth certainly was well underway even by 2003!

        Still, cocaine residue is quite common. I’m sure every bit of cash in my wallet has it, which means my wallet does, too.

        • Silver Badger

          I have heard that before. I never quite understood why either one was considered a sex drug as I’m told that it interferes with keeping an erection. Don’t know, but it does seem a waste.

          • band

            You could find gay men using meth (and/or speed) all the way back in the disco era, or even before. But it really didn’t become a mainstay of gay clubbers (and fuckers!) until the late ’90s.

            That explosive increase in popularity had everything to do with the first erectile dysfunction drug being approved in 1998.

          • Silver Badger

            Ah!!!! I hadn’t thought of that. Thank you.

          • band

            And meth use was inadvertently given another big boost when the Feds moved Sudafed behind the pharmacy counter in 2006 and started requiring ID for purchase (of pseudoephedrine, not meth!). The unintended (but totally foreseeable) consequence was that when small-batch, artisanal meth labs in the US shuttered (for lack of the key ingredient), Mexican cartels stepped into the vacuum. As a result, meth today is plentiful, considerably cheaper and much purer in the U.S.

            Effective drug policy is hard!

          • Bad Tom

            Artisanal Meth Lab

            My new Hard Core rock band name.

    • Treant

      I liked Ed. You knew where you stood with Ed–he flat out didn’t care about you unless you were bribing him. There was no duplicitousness with Ed, he was a crook through and through.

    • Dramphooey

      How does one identify a car of a suspected winner? Is somebody taking a money bath in the back seat like Scrooge McDuck? There are too many cars pouring out of New Jersey into Pennsylvania for me to believe this story.

  • Friday’s_cat

    Omar Mateen was part of the NRA well regulated militia until he wasn’t

  • Ragnar Lothbrok

    ” Sorry I am culpable for the slaughter of them gays. What was I supposed to do call the cops ? ”

    May her soul be tormented 4ever!

    • Silver Badger

      We don’t have to agree to respect other’s opinions.

      • margaretpoa

        Spot on but we do have to agree to respect their rights, no matter how despicable the crime they are accused of committing.

        • Silver Badger

          You’re preaching to the choir, reverend. People seem to forget that until recently, most basic rights didn’t apply to gay people.

          • margaretpoa

            Sorry. I was attempting to agree, mot to preach

          • Silver Badger

            Not a problem. I was trying to agree with you, not criticize you.

        • ErikDC

          A public safety exception, per New York v. Quarles, is a virtual guarantee, given the scope of the crime and harm to the public involved.

          That confession is totally going to be allowed at trial and if you don’t like you can pound sand. No court is going to throw it out.

  • Karl Dubhe 2

    I’d hate to be on the jury that hears this case.

    I hope the prosecutor makes her look at every bit of evidence.

    • Bambino

      It’s a highly charge case. I could be rational now on a calm day but I don’t know if I could suppress my emotion as a jury sitting at the bench and actually listen to legal reasoning without screaming Die! Bitch! Die!

  • leastyebejudged

    They seem desperate to charge her with something, anything.

    This caught my eye :

    “US attorneys argued that she was not in custody, free to leave at any time, and that all her statements were voluntary.”

    Obviously that’s horse shit right there.

  • Wynter Marie Starr

    She belongs in a jail cell for the rest of her life. PTSD doesn’t affect your moral compass and hers is obviously broken. She had ample opportunity to alert someone to what her spouse was planning. She has nearly as much blood on her hands as he did.

  • PlutoAnimus

    Gee, I wonder in which book she read that killing gay people was OK.

    Oh, how I wonder.

    • Michael

      Maybe the same one our parents read.

      • Ogre Magi

        What book would that be?

  • gaycuckhubby

    I’m a stickler for fairness and integrity in our justice system. I question whether any of this evidence will be admissible in court.

    I also think it’s funny to see the majority of the commenters insist on due process here while at the same time demanding that Trump be thrown into jail immediately and complaining about Tiffany Trump being complicit.

    • Silver Badger

      Tiffany and Barron should be left alone. So should President Obama’s daughters. Trump has pretty much been proven to be an opportunistic asshole who may well get us all killed. Please remember, gay people are no different than our straight counterparts. Stone throwing has always been a human pastime.

    • Treant

      ^^^This. Or, why I’m an advocate of thinking things through and not particularly enamored with either the left or the right. And why I’m eternally down on feminists, masculinists, anti-LBGTs, and LBGTs who can’t reverse an argument. Which are the most common logical errors we see here.

    • Robincho

      You’re so cute when you stickle…

    • Bj Lincoln

      Because Drumpf is going to kill a lot of people with his healthcare plan or lack of, ruin our land opening it up for drilling and mining all the way around and tank out economy! On top of that he is moving us backward in clean renewable energy and has made the USA a JOKE! A big scary joke.

      • gaycuckhubby

        Agreed, but this person allowed the largest mass murder in modern US history to happen. If we can demand due process for her we can allowed due process for Trump.

    • Friday

      Kinda cause Trump’s crimes, we’re witnessing on TV every day.

    • JeauxFan

      Me, too. Can they provide video or audio of the interrogation? I just mistrust law enforcement, including federal. I know there are good people working in law enforcement and in the justice department. However, many also hate gay people only slightly less than they hate Muslims and other brown people. I just want real justice.

  • EqualityForAll

    I’m always suspect of hand-written confessions that were composed after hours and hours of police interrogation.

  • JWC

    To quote pock….”interesting”

  • Ninja0980

    Lock her up and throw away the key.

  • Tor

    I don’t doubt that he abused her.

  • RealityBass

    You fucking idiots didn’t Mirandize her?!

    • Friday

      She wasn’t under arrest and was free to go at any time. She didn’t have to give a statement, but I think her lawyer (or the rich family’s) are more interested in covering up than in her own welfare.

      • band

        Her lawyers are obviously interested in giving her the best defense possible, as they should be. If she wasn’t given a Miranda warning, law enforcement has certainly lent them a helping hand toward that end.

        • LesbianTippingHabits


          This is because law enforcement is just going through the motions on this case. They don’t really care about justice.

          Sad !

        • Friday

          Point being, Miranda warnings apply to people being *arrested.*

  • Skeptical_Inquirer

    I really don’t like interrogations for hours w/o lawyers. It reminds me too much of The Central Park 5.

    This is not a statement regarding her guilt or innocence.

    • Friday

      By the same token, I can see lots of pressure *by* those lawyers and the Mateen family *to* retract what she said. I’m not so comfy with that, either.

  • Nowhereman

    So she could have prevented it and didn’t. That makes her as guilty as her husband.

  • Jerry Kott

    What I still find baffling is that the FBI didn’t classify the Pulse Massacre as a HATE CRIME. It doesn’t seem to clarify why the Pulse was chosen in the first place.

  • BeaverTales

    She wasn’t insane, wasn’t forced to participate, wasn’t stupid or looking for fame or money. The problem is religion, and you can’t get rid of that except through education. Jail won’t make her less religious, but might force her to reflect frequently on how she wound up there.

  • Kelly Lape

    We have laws for a reason. It is maddening that the FBI wouldn’t give her Miranda Warnings, and that she wasn’t advised to get an attorney. If she walks it is the direct result of the investigators being more interested in a conviction than justice.

    • LesbianTippingHabits


      Pulse was a horrible tragedy resulting from deliberate actions of her husband, but I think this prosecution seeks to deflect attention from guns.

  • Jean-Marc in Canada

    So, it will now be up to the Latinx and/or other LGBTQ’s to deal to her. If the law won’t do its job, the people must. May she forever be looking over her shoulder.

    • Friday

      Tht’d be pretty counterproductive. Suddenly she’s the victim in all this and more of the phobes in that community will claim they’re justified.

      • Jean-Marc in Canada

        I respectfully disagree. At some point the bashers, the phobes and even the cops have to be made to understand there are actual consequences to their attacks on us. You can only allow injustice to go on before you react in a manner commensurate with the cause. As for the phobes using it as justification, they’re already beating & killing us so I’m not sure what more “justification” they would need. It’s time for them to be scared.

        • Friday

          Well, the guy obviously didn’t care about his *wife,* so I don’t think that scares that type.

          • Jean-Marc in Canada

            I can’t argue with that.

        • Gianni

          So just take the law into your own hands, break it by harming someone else, and get your own ass thrown into prison. Not good reasoning.

          • Jean-Marc in Canada

            So what would you propose? Because the law and law enforcement isn’t working.

            My first husband was brutally beaten to death and law enforcement did nothing…thankfully, fate took care of the teens involved and yes, I wish I could say I had a hand in it, alas I did not. As someone who’s known the violence of homophobes and terrorists first hand, I have no qualms about advocating for a more active/reactive solution to the homophobe problem. I don’t do forgiveness anymore, not when it comes to these creatures; better a 100K of them die than one of us be harmed. As I said, maybe it’s time for them to have nightmares. On this matter, I am unmoved by sentiment or kindness.

          • Gianni

            It’s safe to say that most people feel the need for revenge when we or loved ones are hurt. We get angry and want satisfaction. That is human nature. If the danger is imminent, you have the absolute right to protect yourself, but, you know as well as most of us, that becoming a vigilante is not the thing to do. That means you preplan breaking the law and harming that person, which could very likely lead to that person’s death. That becomes a premeditated act – heavier sentence for you. As I said, you’ll end up behind bars for who knows how long and haven’t done yourself one bit of good. And suppose that that person or their family or bros now want to get back at you and yours? No, not the way to go.

          • Jean-Marc in Canada

            You didn’t answer the question, you deflected. You said it was wrong and I asked what your solution was and all you did was repeat your initial assertion. Answer the question please, what do you propose?

          • Gianni

            Apparently, you missed the whole point. Don’t take the law into your own hands. I didn’t deflect. You didn’t grasp. You said the law and law enforcement isn’t working. What are you talking about? She’s been arrested, charged, and is at trial now. I assumed that you understood that and the opposite of vigilantism is letting the law do its job.

        • Friday

          I’m not talking in absolutes, here. I’m suggesting a likely-battered wife isn’t the occasion to pick for any such thing.

    • Mr. Ric

      What a repulsive comment. If you have no morals or scruples others do.

      • Jean-Marc in Canada

        When it comes to homophobes or those who would harm us, no, I have no scruples whatsoever. As for morality, you have no corner on the market anymore than I do, so that’s a rather moot point. The days of my being understanding of these things died when they bashed my first husband to death. Lecture me, wag your finger all you like, on this subject I am firm and unyielding.

  • Friday

    Frankly, letting her off on this is only encouraging more complicity in these hate crimes: I understand domestic abuse is highly-likely, but this tack by her lawyers seems much more based on excusing/denying the failure to report the warning signs than showing her some mercy on that count.

  • Phillip in L.A.

    It’s especially interesting to me that so many people have apparently learned to write Russian in Cyrillic characters, so recently here! (Google Translate is to blame, I think.)

    Also interesting that some folks appear to have become experts on criminal law (even down to citing specific cases)!

    Have a great day, J.M.G’ers (and Joe, of course)!

  • Joseph Miceli

    This woman may have been abused and terrorized…and she allowed 50 other people to die rather than find her backbone. Fuck her. Throw her UNDER the jail. She has failed as a human being.

  • LesbianTippingHabits


    Well, if she had called the police, would they have listened to her?

    If they did, would the police have believed her? I sincerely doubt it.

  • rednekokie

    If this is true, she is as guilty as he was.

  • Ore Carmi

    It’s so difficult for me to trust law enforcement officers. Remember the Central Park Five? Back then I believed they were guilty. (In my defense, I was, like, 10.) I have no way of determining whether or not Noor Salman knew the details of the attack beforehand–but I don’t trust the FBI’s determination either.

  • Ogre Magi

    Here is something I have noticed, if you say something hostile about muslims, people assume you are a right wing christian, if you say something hostile about christians people assume you love muslims

    • MBear

      With the religious, its always us vs them

      • SDG

        Indeed… no matter how much “love” you claim you preach.

        • MBear

          If they claim that jealous, ragey, impotent, murderous skydaddy loves them… they truly do not know what love is

      • red-diaper-baby 1942

        That’s one of the main problems (among many) with religion.

  • SDG

    ALL religion is bad, period! Some are just more fanatical and violent.

    • red-diaper-baby 1942

      You’re right. I’ve recently had my last delusion stripped away: that Buddhism at least is a non-violent religion. Reading about what’s happening to the Rohingya in Myanmar has been even more horrifying for that reason.
      I suppose the Quakers would qualify as non-violent, but they’re not a religion, just a sect. I’ve known a few Quakers in my life, and I have to say I’ve admired most of them unreservedly; Aside from them, in my 75 years I’ve met precisely two people describing themselves as “practicing Christians” whom I could admire. Both of them were Anglicans.
      But I live in Europe, so the Quakers I’ve met tend not to be American. After all, Nixon was (nominally) a Quaker..

  • JCF

    Color Me Very Ambivalent. “Questioned for hours, without a lawyer”: do not like this. Ever.

  • Mildred Pierce

    kill her or life in prison – let god sort it out ;;;;
    sign me
    a lgbtq