OREGON: Appeals Court Upholds $135,000 Fine For Anti-Gay Bakery That Turned Away Couple In 2013

Portland’s NBC affiliate reports:

The Oregon Court of Appeals unanimously upheld a ruling — and a $135,000 fine — that two Gresham bakery owners discriminated against a gay couple by refusing to make them a wedding cake, violating Oregon law.

The courts did reverse a portion of the Bureau of Labor and Industries decision that said Melissa and Aaron Klein violated Oregon law by communicating their intent to discriminate against same-sex couples in the future.

The appeals court decision, released Thursday, came almost nine months after attorneys representing the Kleins and the attorneys for the Bureau of Labor and Industries argued before the three-judge panel.

The Kleins paid the fine two years ago today after raising over $500,000 via Christian crowdfunding campaigns. Their check was to be held until the appeals process was exhausted and the Kleins can still petition the Oregon Supreme Court.

  • Ragnar Lothbrok

    Don’t cry Melissa, I am sending thoughts and prayers direct.

  • Sam_Handwich

    they’re shoving gay cake down our throats and up our tender bottoms!!!

  • j.martindale

    $365,000 gain? I’d enjoy that kind of punishment. I imagine the lawyers will get a good chunk of it, though.

    • Chucktech

      Tough shit. That means they should have taken their filthy christian lucre and shut the fuck up. Must suck for them.

    • clay

      A second bit of good luck in this story– the local press isn’t giving the defense lawyers any lip service.

      • BudClark

        Give HEAD to STRAIGHT (!!!???) ambulance-chasers? Not the queer counselors *I* run with! (chuckle).

        • clay

          I’m glad you’re still with us.

  • ceeenbee
    • m_lp_ql_m

      Even these are more effective than thoughts and prayers.

    • bkmn

      Especially if they are Trader Joes tots. They are so much less greasy than the Ore-Ida ones.

      • Oscarlating Wildely

        You see, every thing I’ve tried BUT Ore Ida fall apart. Secret?

        • m_lp_ql_m

          Suck on them frozen.

          • greenmanTN

            That’s your answer for everything! 😉

        • bkmn

          Use a rack on your baking sheet and heat the oven up 25 degrees higher than they specify on the package. With the rack you don’t have to rotate them halfway through.

          • Oscarlating Wildely

            I’ll try that, thanks!

        • Ben in Oakland

          Try praying?

          • Oscarlating Wildely

            Yea, that and thoughts. Did fuck all.

          • clay

            Pray harder. Work your nipps if that helps.

          • Oscarlating Wildely

            …wait…. there’s another way to pray without your nipps?….

          • Lars Littlefield

            To avoid carpel tunnel, use extra strong clothespin clips. Maybe dip them in glitter first.

          • clay

            Some of us just aren’t wired for that.

          • itsnwman

            You mean pearing?

          • Ben in Oakland

            only with the proper whines.

        • Lars Littlefield

          Making them is better than buying them.
          Home Made Tatter Totts
          Directions
          1. Finely shred or use a ricer while potatoes are still hot.
          2. Stir in flour, salt, pepper and onion (if using).
          3. Heat 1/4-in oil in heavy pan.
          4. Form into small balls and drop in oil; fry until slightly golden.
          5. Drain on paper towels, then freeze for tater tot casseroles or to serve alone.

          Easy peasy and they don’t fall abart. But they’ll taste different because the don’t contain palm oil.

          • Sam_Handwich

            don’t make me drag out the Funeral Potatoes recipes!

          • Lars Littlefield

            Funeral Potatoes! I LOVE those deadly things!

          • Amanda B. Rekendwith

            They do their best to turn one funeral into another!

          • RoverSerton

            I don’t know the recipe, please post….I’ve made killer pizza (last meal my step dad ate) and killer big mac (last meal my dad ate). Nothing wrong with the food, just wrong with dad and stepdad.(heart and cancer)

          • chrisinphx

            Are those the ones that contain a block of Velveta cheese like product?

          • Use peanut oil, and crank up the heat to 450. It won’t take long to brown them, and the short time in the fryer will minimize oil absorption.

          • BobSF_94117

            You left out a step: use a cookie form to shape the tots into, well, tots.

          • Ray Taylor

            Make them flat rounds and they turn into latke.

          • Lars Littlefield

            Or we could just step on them after deep frying. ‘-)

        • teeveedub

          It’s heartwarming to know that one can come to JMG looking for the latest political news and end up with tater tot tips.

          • Lars Littlefield

            Don’t forget the special sauce.
            Mix:
            1 cup of mayonnaise
            1 cup of ketchup
            1/4 cup dill pickle juice
            dash of paprika
            Swirl together well until the color resembles something your dog threw up once.

            Dip tatter totts in special sauce.

          • perversatile
          • Ray Taylor

            Yummie!
            /s

          • Tom Furgas

            Or you could just go out and buy a bottle of Thousand Island dressing. Basically the same thing.

          • Lars Littlefield

            It’s close, but not the same. The same sauce glop is sold in squeeze bottles in Argentina and is called salsa de Golf or Golf sauce.

          • Andrew Stevens

            You’re from Utah, aren’t you?

            (Jackson Hole, here…we get lot’s of visitors from Utah and Idaho)

          • RoverSerton

            And Tater tot hips if you don’t eat in moderation,

        • zhera

          Oh, here we go with the kitchen porn again. The Gay Agenda: Talk about food.

          😉

          • Oscarlating Wildely

            I swing both ways. So, it’s the food and drink option.

          • Joe in PA

            LOL, that’s just what I was thinking. Sheesh…get a room you people. 🙂

        • chrisinphx

          Convection toaster over is the best thing for tots. Trust me, I’ve done extensive research on the subject.

    • GanymedeRenard

      Thoughts and prayers would suffice, methinks.

  • Will Parkinson

    :wah wah wah:

  • Oscarlating Wildely

    Do tell us if it tastes better than your cakes, asshole.

    http://weknowyourdreams.com/images/crow/crow-06.jpg

    • m_lp_ql_m

      I suspect their assholes do taste better than their cakes.

      • Oscarlating Wildely

        Look at that dude’s face. You know he’d enjoy a good rimming more than some butter cream icing.

        • Bambino

          More like his habit of digging his butt and lick his finger after.

      • Phillip in L.A.

        You said it!

    • clay

      I imagine their $365,000 wind-fall tastes delicious to them.

      • Phillip in L.A.

        It’s only a windfall if they quit now, while they’re ahead. A trip to the Supremes could eat up $150K+, easily, without even breathing hard. And, they have to go through the Oregon Supreme Court, first!

    • GanymedeRenard

      I don’t think their assholes taste better than their cakes. Maybe just as disgusting, but not better. LOL

  • bkmn
  • Good.

    You want to be in the business of selling stuff used in weddings, you don’t get to turn away customers because you don’t approve of their marriages.

    Applies to gay & lesbian couples, as well as divorced folks, non-Christians, oldster marrying someone very young (provided it’s legal, of course), interracial couples, and those suffering from physical and/or mental challenges (also provided said individuals aren’t assessed as being unable to give informed adult consent).

    You sell to everyone who has money for your product, period. Otherwise, we’re heading back to the day when “No Colored” and “No Irish” signs in store windows would soon be joined by “No Gays” and “No Muslims. And that’s just fucking wrong.

    • Nick in Pasadena

      Absolutely. It’s a very simple concept. If you’re in business to sell goods or services to the public–whether it’s wedding cakes or yoga instruction–you cannot turn away a member of the public because of who they are. Why is that so hard to understand?

      • ChrisInKansas

        Jesus.

      • cleos_mom

        In other words — you’re a vendor, not part of the wedding ceremony. Religious beliefs would be irrelevant in that context.

        • prixator

          Exactly. They are only being asked to bake a cake in exchange for money; they’re not being asked for their blessing or approval.

          So, if this kind of transaction is against their religious beliefs, they really shouldn’t be in the retail business. They can give their cakes away for free to those of whom they approve.

          • Kitchenman

            Wrong. They were asked to make a custom cake. They would sell off the shelf, or one it their advertised cakes. Forcing anyone to make you a custom thing, a thing yes u do not normally make, is servitude.

      • jonfromcalifornia

        Their Evangelicalism makes it “hard to understand”. You know it’s a false religion when they believe it’s okay to break the fundamental HUMAN precept to not treat the other the way you don’t want the other to treat you.

      • They will claim that it isn’t the gay person being turned away, but the event, the marriage. Which is bs, of course. But it begs the question, what is the legal difference between a wedding and a birthday or anniversary or date night cake? They could claim a religious exemption in ANY case, if they are given “weddings,” couldn’t they?

      • Kitchenman

        You can when it’s custom. Yea u can not be forced to make something you do not offer to make. Otherwise that would be slavery.

    • Ninja0980

      This couple made clear their “religious beliefs” only applied to same sex couples.

      • SkokieGuy [ChicagoAdjacentGuy]

        Yes to your point too. Even if you accept their flimsy religious excuse for their bigotry, it doesn’t hold up under the most cursory examination of their ‘faith’. All the obvious questions, what other types of scrutiny to you subject potential cake buyers to? Second marriages? Interracial marriages? What if they had a child out of wedlock? What version of the bible do you believe in? How do you decide what rules you will follow and which ones you will ignore?

        I’m tired of LGBT people’s lives being under extraordinary scrutiny, but the ‘faith’ these people hide behind is never examined.

        • Falconlights

          Exactly. If you look deeply into these idiots and their “sincere religious beliefs” nonsense you’ll find it is only LGBT people against whom they’re so anxious to be able to discriminate against.

          • Audrey

            Google is paying 97$ per hour,with weekly payouts.You can also avail this.
            On tuesday I got a great new Land Rover Range Rover from having earned $11752 this last four weeks..with-out any doubt it’s the most-comfortable job I have ever done .. It sounds unbelievable but you wont forgive yourself if you don’t check it
            !da116:
            ➽➽
            ➽➽;➽➽ http://GoogleOnlineEasyTeamTechJobsOpportunities/easy/jobs ★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫:::::!da116luuuu

        • In fact, they will tell you (loudly) that you are not permitted to question their “deeply held beliefs.” And since people can claim to “deeply believe” whatever you can imagine, that can mean ANYTHING.

        • Connie

          Google is paying 97$ per hour,with weekly payouts.You can also avail this.
          On tuesday I got a great New Land Rover Range Rover from having earned $11752 this last four weeks..with-out any doubt it’s the most-comfortable job I have ever done .. It sounds unbelievable but you wont forgive yourself if you don’t check it
          !da122d:
          ➽➽
          ➽➽;➽➽ http://GoogleTeamServiceUpdateWorkFromHome/more/cash ★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫:::::!da122luuuuuss

      • It’s a hard topic to argue, because the opposition is wrong in so many different ways, it is difficult to be concise. But one of the biggest sticks in my craw is that there IS NO Christian commandment or edict that says “thou shalt not sell thine wares to heathens” of whatever stripe. But it’s always the same stripe.

        That is closely followed by the fact that selling their wares doesn’t do a single thing to alter their beliefs. They get to keep them. And of course, the fact that it doesn’t freakin’ matter, because their religion shouldn’t enter into the transaction in the first place. See? I’m all over the place.

    • kaydenpat

      The fact that there are Americans who think it’s okay to discriminate against their fellow Americans on spurious grounds is beyond sad. It’s downright embarrassing. We should have moved on from that kind of thinking a long time ago.

      • David Walker

        And instead we have Puerto Rico.

    • Phillip in L.A.

      Preach, girl! That’s exactly right

    • BurningTongues

      Also, you baking a cake does not mean you are giving a particular marriage your stamp of approval. It’s just a cake! This is simply about these people wanting the legal right to shove THEIR beliefs onto customers.

    • Kitchenman

      Product yes, custom product NO. You have the right to refuse servitude.

  • TheManicMechanic

    I’ll take as much good news as I can for our side as possible for now. These Stupidchristians™ will, like Moore, never take no for an answer and will keep clogging the courts and jerking off the Matt Stavers and Brian Browns of the world until they manage to somehow “win” something. In the meantime the Stupidchristians™ will keep multiplying and devolving and become even more useful idiots for those that plus them for power and money.

  • GanymedeRenard

    Bigotry is bigotry is bigotry. A cake is a cake is a cake. End of story. You lost, you Christers. You’ve got money now. Get lost and enjoy your infamy.

  • bkmn
  • Chucktech

    The Kleins paid the fine two years ago today after raising over $500,000 via Christian crowdfunding campaigns.

    I was gonna say when I read the headline, BFD, they did just fine with their christian grifting, thank you.

  • Cuberly Deux

    GOOD!…..it’s also a punch in David Brooks’ dick.

    • Gustav2

      Now, now, he merely expects you to politely leave, not sue when someone discriminates against you and breaks the law.

      • Cuberly Deux

        Yup, we’re supposed to suck it up.

        He’s such an asshole.

    • TuuxKabin

      He had one?

      • Cuberly Deux

        Yep, a small & bruised one…heh heh…

  • m_lp_ql_m

    “Klein”? They’re Jewish?

  • BeaverTales

    Wasn’t there some doxxing with this case? The Kleins posted the phone numbers and email addresses of the lesbian couple so that their Christianist troll buddies could harass them.

    Is that the correct fact pattern? My memory banks are better saved for other things these days.

    • Chucktech

      Yup. That’s how the otherwise $2000 fine ballooned to $135k.

      But, hey, all’s well that ends with $500k from dim bulb, simpleton christians.

      • Bambino

        I hope their lawyers suck up all $500K and more by the end of it.

        • prixator

          Wasn’t it ADF or Liberty Counsel representing them? I’d rather they donate their ill-gotten gains to a secular charity, but since they seem mean-spirited, I hope they use it all for drugs and alcohol.

    • Cuberly Deux

      Yep, the couple were even receiving death threats. As far as I’m aware the Klein’s never even apologized for it, they defended the doxxing.

    • Phillip in L.A.

      Yes, right, “emotional distress” damages affirmed

  • William

    If Aaron doesn’t smile, he’ll never get a husband.

    • Phillip in L.A.

      Look what it did get him, though
      /s

  • Chucktech
  • Cuberly Deux

    OT: Looks like apple has had a change of attitude.

    “Apple apologizes for iPhone slowdown drama, will offer $29 battery replacements for a year”

    https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/28/16827248/apple-iphone-battery-replacement-price-slow-down-apology

    What’s interesting is Motorola and HTC have come forward and stated they don’t do any sort of slowing of their phones. Samsung is expected to issue a statement as well.

    • Sam_Handwich

      lawsuits still pending, bitches!

      • Cuberly Deux

        When you add the exorbitant cost of replacing a battery, with no explanation, to the fact the customers were never warned.

        That class action is gonna be BAD.

        • Chucktech

          All Apple had to do was include a pop up screen message saying your phone is slowing down due to an aging battery. Instead, they were hoping folks would just toss it and buy a new phone. Fuck them.

          • Cuberly Deux

            What I find sort of interesting is in Android 8.1 Google worked to reduce battery drain from rogue apps. I installed it and in my phone is zippier and battery life is noticeably improved. It’s a little over a year old, but still, interesting to see the improvement vs the decline.

          • Gianni

            Incomprehensible to me. How did the decision makers at Apple think that this was anything like good customer relations? Apple is, if not the wealthiest company in the fucking world, it’s damned well close to the top. If I had an older I-phone and they did this to me, they could bet that I’d never buy one of Apple’s phones again.

        • Sam_Handwich

          i assume part of the ploy is that by accepting the battery replacement offer you forego any possible class action settlement

          • AJayne

            Yep. Always read the fine print.

          • Cuberly Deux

            Yep, can’t imagine them reducing the cost so drastically unless it had that nice little caveat.

      • Phillip in L.A.

        You are even more famous, now, Sam! You were cited in the Oregon case:

        If, as BOLI argues, the Kleins’ wedding cakes are
        just “food” with no meaningful artistic or communicative
        component, then, as the foregoing discussion illustrates,
        BOLI’s final order does not implicate the First Amendment;
        the Kleins’ objection to having to “speak” as a result of ORS
        659A.403 is no more powerful than it would be coming from the seller of a ham sandwich.”

        Klein v. Bureau of Labor & Industries, 289 Or. App. 507, 536 (Dec. 28, 2017)

    • Hue-Man

      Apple had to find the money to pay the boss’s bonuses!

      Apple’s Tim Cook paid $102m this year including bonuses worth $98m

      https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/dec/28/apples-tim-cook-paid-102m-this-year-including-bonuses-worth-98m

  • Ander

    That’s the way the cookie crumbles.

    • m_lp_ql_m

      That’s the way the cake bounces.

      • Ander

        And what goes around, comes around, or so the court announces.

  • Lazycrockett

    I never knew bakers were such drama queens especially the straight ones.

    • Gustav2

      They have all become “artistes!”

      (It really just lets them overcharge)

    • netxtown

      but he….he just looks so fuckable.
      he could have done so much better….

      • Chucktech

        He lets Jesus fuck him.

        • Oscarlating Wildely

          …cue silver crucifix….

      • ChrisInKansas

        So very fuckable.

      • Longpole

        So this Aaron guy is str8t?
        Ya, right. He works at a place called “Sweet Cakes” and the walls are painted pink.

        • netxtown

          the wifey and he are partners….
          still – he could do much better….

    • Gianni

      Seems so true. But remember they have to be straight and completely soaked in the faith, the Bobble, and the Lord. You’re gay? Sorry, no cakes for you. God says you deserve death. Consider yourselves lucky you’re leaving my store alive. Now I have to beg forgiveness for only doing half of God’s will.

  • edrex

    ah. the art of homophobia.

    • GanymedeRenard

      In their particular case, it wouldn’t be art – it’d be botch.

  • anne marie in philly

    LOSERS! serve all or GTFO of business!

  • JWC

    Good to hear

  • Adam Stevens

    I have graciously set up a GoFuckYourself fund-drive for these assholes.

    Give ’til it hurts, guys.

  • Rebecca Gardner

    If these fuckers actually followed the BuyBull they’d not be able to bake a cake for anyone.

    I’ll make you a cake unless:
    Gay? Too Bad
    Divorced? Too Bad
    Tattoos? Too Bad
    Body Piercings? Too Bad
    Work on Sunday? Too Bad
    Female school teacher? Too Bad
    Wealthy? Too Bad

    I can go on and on and on but you get the point.

    • Chucktech

      Nope. Only the homo thing. It’s always only the homo thing.

      • m_lp_ql_m

        “Because that’s what it says in the bible!” /s

      • Gianni

        It’s their best moneymaker. Believers will give their last dollar to protect the world from ‘the gayz’. Besides, all those other transgressions include too many of the faithful themselves. By time the customers filled out their Sin Questionnaire, who the hell would care about the cake?

      • Phillip in L.A.

        Repressed Rimchair Aaron Klein actually quoted from Leviticus! It’s in the Court’s decision

  • bruno_mirakuru_

    I’ll take as much good news as I can for our side as possible for now. These Stupidchristians™ will, like Moore, never take no for an answer and will keep clogging the courts and jerking off the Matt Stavers and Brian Browns of the world until they manage to somehow “win” something. In the meantime the Stupidchristians™ will keep multiplying and devolving and become even more useful idiots for those that plus them for power and money

  • First rule of republican jesus club never shut-up about it.
    Second rule never do what jesus actually said.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8cf1a5205b364ce2e0323e457efe981ab675040070bd1841dc7b4ba519b32916.jpg

  • JT

    Have your cake and shit it too!

  • Henry Auvil

    Just think about it, assholes. You could have baked the cake, deposited the check, and gone on with your lives without all this mess, drama and humiliation.

    • BobSF_94117

      And lost out on all the attention???

      • xersnoyl

        Plus all the money they made from the godly folks !

    • ChrisInKansas

      But…those beliefs!! They’re DEEPLY HELD! DEEPLY!

      • BudClark

        PUSH HARDER AND USE LESS LUBE, FOOL!

    • leastyebejudged

      They’ve been given over half a million bucks from like minded xtians, so if that’s suffering, let me in on some of it.

  • Rick

    What? They’re still married? Has no one told Melissa about Aaron’s Fat Cobra visits?!

  • JaniceInToronto

    So back to court to waste more money.

  • JT

    Eine Kleine Fuchtmuzak.

  • teeveedub

    With all the focus seemingly on the RWNJs who think spreading buttercream frosting is somehow a religious sacrament, let’s not forget what the Bowman-Cryers went through as a result of the closet queen and his wife denying them service:

    http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-25119-bittersweet-cake.html

    • Gretchen

      I made a new recipe for buttercream a week or so ago that SHOULD be a sacrament. That was the BEST frosting I have ever tasted. Pipe a little glob onto a sable’ cookie masquerading as a holiday thumbprint cookie, and you have pure bliss.

      • teeveedub

        Please share the recipe!

        • Gretchen

          1 cup of good quality butter
          3 cups powdered sugar
          3-4 tablespoons sweetened condensed milk
          1 teaspoon vanilla flavoring

          1. Cream the butter until light and fluffy way longer than you would ever dream you should approximately 5 minutes.
          2. Add the flavoring and 3 tablespoons sweetened condensed milk and beat until smooth.
          3. Add powdered sugar and beat again until spreading consistency adding an additional tablespoon sweetened condensed milk if necessary.

          I found the recipe here: http://www.cookingwithcarlee.com/2016/04/sweetened-condensed-milk-buttercream.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=pinterest&utm_campaign=tailwind_tribes&utm_content=tribes

          • teeveedub

            Thanks!

          • Gretchen

            I meant to include the cookie recipe as well. I used this one for French Sable’ cookies from Food Network. I made my logs a bit more narrow in diameter (slightly larger than a quarter), skipped the step about rolling it in sugar, and made a a small well in the center of each cookie slice with the back of a measuring spoon. I believe I used the teaspoon. They take slightly less time to bake this way, so watch them carefully. You won’t see any color on them at all even when they are completely done. I recommend about 6-7 minutes. Let them cool and pipe a small swirl of the frosting on each one. My husband isn’t much of a cookie fan, but he has already demolished this batch and started asking for another. They are just that good.

            I also highly recommend using good European butter. It makes a HUGE difference.

            Happy baking!

            http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/french-sables-recipe-1965022

  • Ninja0980

    Bottom line, you want to run a business that serves the public?
    You abide by the discrimination laws of those states.
    Your religious beliefs make it so you can’t do that?
    Then don’t open a business that serves the public, simple as that.

  • ETownCanuck
    • canoebum

      Yes, but did he really like riding his bike? I suspect he did.

  • kaydenpat

    They made half a million dollars off their discrimination. Sigh.

    At least, they have been sent a clear message that they can’t get away with their bigotry.

  • Bambino

    I suppose I should not bother asking them to bake me this cake then?
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ad80a20c221cced12227964702bd636edb1320d5f2e31d61f30753d3b4a45db5.jpg

  • Dayglo

    This case taught us an important lesson … that there really are gay people living in Oregon.

    • Bambino

      Or not all bakers have the ability to bake a gay wedding cake.

  • -M-

    And the other $365,000? Good pay for lousy lawyers.

  • Natty Enquirer

    And they will appeal, I’m sure, all the way to D.C. They are a Christian cause célèbre.

    • Phillip in L.A.

      grant and hold, pending decision in Colorado/Masterpiece Cakeshop

  • ColdCountry

    A night for good news!

  • Phillip in L.A.

    Thank you for posting, Joe! Happy New Year to you (if I don’t see you before then)!!!

    This Oregon Court of Appeal decision you reported is really good! Klein v. Oregon Bureau of Labor & Industries (Dec. 28, 2017) 289 Or. App. 507.

    The main opinion is well-written, and clearly analyzes the applicable law well, and in terms I think most non-lawyers with a sincere interest can easily understand. The Court does not duck the difficult issues, but puts them front and center (e.g., Whether the Cake is Expressive Art). A lengthy read, though….

    Check out the full opinion here:

    http://www.publications.ojd.state.or.us/docs/A159899.pdf

  • fuow

    OK, so, yeah – christers are mother-fucking asswipes from hell.
    We won the few rights we did by proving they were the asswipes and we were the victims.
    As annoying as this sort of petty discrimination is, we are not helping our cause by falling for it. It would have been far, far better to just post the matter to social media and not press charges.
    And now the usual suspects will come charging out of the woods to call me names in 3-2-1.

    • Jean-Marc in Canada

      While I am all for public accommodation laws being upheld, I have to agree that this kind of suit, in the long run, does not put us in a good light. That said, I happen to believe that if any business wishes to exercise their “sincerely held beliefs” by discrimination, they should be required by law to post a large, completely visible, sign stating who they will and will not serve and/or what services they will deny and, most importantly, WHY. If they claim to have the right not be forced to offer their goods/services to certain people because an affront to their dignity/beliefs, they should have no issue with posting such a sign. Sure, in the long run it will probably hurt their business, but hey, why should I or any gay person have their dignity slighted because we/they enter a shop not knowing the “sincerely held beliefs” of the owner(s) beforehand.

      • Phillip in L.A.

        I agree. Ironically, the Labor Bureau here originally issued an injunction against the bakery, on the ground they were “threatening future discrimination” (and hence, future violation of the Public Accommodations law) by posting a hand-written sign saying, “The fight is not over” (iirc). The Oregon Court of Appeals struck down that part of the Bureau’s order, but affirmed the damages awarded.

      • Skeptical_Inquirer

        That’s what I loathe about them. They don’t WANT to put up a sign. Wasting people’s time and making them feel like crap is a feature, not a bug with these guys.

        Also, I’ll never understand why they don’t get that Yelp exists. If they say no to a whole bunch of people of X group, that info is so going up the next day.

        • Sporkfighter

          If they post a “No gays served here” sign in the window, they don’t get that special smug feeling by declining to serve gays to their faces.

          What good is being a bigot if you can’t flaunt your imagined superiority?

      • JAKvirginia

        They have always had an option for determining who will be their customers: a club. A club can specifically outline membership requirements, dues, etc. Then their membership would be their customers. It’s legal and defensible. Of course, it’s tedious and expensive for the business and the customer, but discrimination has its price. Step into the open marketplace, then you have to be open to all. Sorry.

      • peacfulseas inWA

        It should be on all advertising, web presence as well. Every time an amendment to discrimination legislation dealing with signage was voted down. Christians are notoriously cheap and this bigots know it bad for business.We have far more supporters. The old image the public has swallowed for decades is getting more bitter as the lies are revealed.

      • fuow

        I love the sign idea. Then again, why not just a shorthand – post the Nazi triangles for each group you don’t serve?
        Or a simple Romans 1:26-7. That sums up their hatred perfectly for all to see.
        Or, both. Yeah, both would be best.

        • Signs that say who they will not serve is funny and reasonable. Solomon like.

    • Hue-Man

      No name calling but I admire and respect people who refuse to ride at the back of the bus. They disrupt their lives to pursue legal action that will ultimately be upheld by the SCOTUS. We’re all better off for their courage.

      • fuow

        I admire them, too. Doesn’t change the fact that these bakers and florists are christer plants – and we’re falling into a trap of their devising. Wish more of us could see that.
        There are far better ways to fight such evil C*nts.

        • Name one if you please. Reason does not work.
          I fight them on scriptural playing field and they ignore me or ban me from conversations. Over and over the Bible and Jesus tell Xians to obey civil law.
          And what they practice is not religious/civil disobedience. That requires that the CO take on the burden of the conscientious objection – not transfer the burden of conscientious objection to the Other.

    • stevenj

      What’s the point of anti discrimination laws then? First it’s a few bakeries, and then a few restaurants, lodgings, etc etc etc.

      • fuow

        OK, here we go again. Look, I was on the extreme side of ACT-UP! I have the broken nose and ribs to go with standing up for our rights as gay men back when it really did get you into a fight.
        I’m not a wimp and I’m not a fool.
        These bakers and florists are being used by various christer groups to achieve a full-roll back of our rights.
        We are being provoked. Our rights are enormously important – but we’re about to lose the Supreme Court case heard just a few weeks back. That will set us back by decades.
        We have to fight discrimination the right way, not in the way our enemies want us to do – and that’s precisely the mistake we’re making against these asswipe christer bakers and florists.
        We have to fight smarter, and this sort of thing does not look good.

        • peacfulseas inWA

          I’d say Attacked rather than provoked. Serious question. What is the ” right way ” to fight discrimination? Listening. I have no desire to get beat up if that is what is on your mind.

          • fuow

            Actually, the first time this came up a few years back, it was those of us who cautioned this was a christer trick who got beat up around here.
            Thoroughly.
            I’ve no cut and dried, black and white ‘right way’ solutions but here is what has worked in the past. I have no reason to assume it won’t work now:
            1) Vote. No, seriously: VOTE! (Yes, I shouted that). Elections matter and any gay man who still things they don’t deserves what Gorsuch is and shall do to him. By electing competent people we protect ourselves against discrimination. By staying home or voting third party, either in ‘protest’ to the candidate not being perfect, we lose. Garland was far too far to the right for my taste on many things. On gay and transgender rights? He was on our side. Gorsuch is absolutely alone (not even Alito goes this far) in his argumentation: When in conflict, flip a coin. Heads: Gays lose. Tails: Christers win.

            2) Accept that the First Amendment puts us into a situation in which rights are going to have to be balanced. One rarely encounters a person in our social circles who would dream of saying the nasty things about Wiccans or the Palestinian Muslims which we say about ‘muriKKKan christers.
            The reason is, of course, clear: Wiccans and Palestinians aren’t actively trying to destroy our families. This doesn’t change the fact that we do have to accept that the courts have to find a balance. NOT SAYING I LIKE THIS.

            3) Optics. The sheer hatred of the mother-fucking christers toward gay men and transgender people is what led to even Roberts saying we had rights, regardless of his disagreement with our achieving them through his Court.
            So, OK – why are we letting the christers set the playing field? Clearly, there are some matters where we must fight, regardless of appearances. On the subject of sweet looking old ladies (remember, lead acetate tastes sweet, too) or cute bakers or pizza makers, yeah – we’re fighting a battle on their turf with the home crowd out in number. Carrying baseball bats.
            So here’s the tough one. On the one hand, fears of big trees growing from little acorns (European fighters of fascism will get that reference) are justified. Today cupcakes, tomorrow emergency medical services. Hell, we already have that problem.
            On the other hand, the ‘deeply held beliefs’ argument plays well with one fuck of a lot of Americans who otherwise really do believe in ‘live and let live’. So a full frontal court press through the law is not the way to fight being turned down for a cupcake. Better to make it out for what it is: Systematic discrimination by people who are benefiting from being public businesses. That is better done through careful, reasoned argumentation than through the blunt instrument of the State.
            But, yeah – it’s a really tough one. Just, don’t think for a minute that the ADF and all the other well funded (ADF has a bigger budget than the ACLU) groups aren’t actively looking for these sorts of cases to attack us and roll back ALL our rights.

            We must be wise and prudent in choosing which battles to win so we win the war – equal rights for all of us.

          • peacfulseas inWA

            1) Urging people to vote is a nothing new here and said 100 times.

            2) Rights Balanced? I’m sorry but what does that mean? Please explain? This is disturbing to me.

            3) ” Just, don’t think for a minute that the ADF and all the other well
            funded (ADF has a bigger budget than the ACLU) groups aren’t actively
            looking for these sorts of cases to attack us and roll back ALL our
            rights. ”
            This so wrong. They ARE actively looking for cases. They’ve moved on a bit from L&G issues but once they saw the writing on the wall concerning marriage equality they began their anti- trans witch hunt enlisting people in Calif. and CO with made up incidents. That was primarily PJI’s doing.
            Yes they most certainly have the deep pockets on their side but how much good did that help them with SCOTUS and the struggle for marriage equality. Most sane people have come to realize that the past decades have been filled with lies perpetrated by the religious demagogues.

            Speaking of optics inciting or participating in violence is far from ideal optics.

          • fuow

            OK, to Number 1: Yes, and it will be said a million times more here and several of us still won’t vote. The candidate to the ‘left’ won’t be 100% perfect on one-tenth of one-percent of some peripheral issue.
            To number 3: You misread me. I said the same thing you did!
            OK, to number 2:
            Like it or not, the courts have to balance religious and free-speech rights when they come into conflict. We failed to put in a Supreme Court Justice who would have granted us full human status and full civil rights, so those conflicting situations will now be evaluated by a far-right, christer ass-licking, gay bashing Court.
            There’s a tension between full freedom and working and living in a society. You can say whatever you like about Hair Furor – but you may not and you shall not shout ‘Fire!’ in a packed cinema theatre.
            At some point, we have to make clear that gays and transgender people must be served just like cis-gendered and heterosexual people. That will conflict with the hate-driven ‘deeply felt values’ of the christers. How this is resolved is the reason I’ve argued we not let our enemies set the rules of engagement. Gay adoption? Worth fighting for, regardless of optics (which were on our side, anyway). A wedding cake? Makes sense to gay me, but I can see why a lot of people have trouble seeing the mother-fucking christers punished so heavily for not wanting to bake it.
            Hope that helps – at least you and I are talking. Two years ago, those of us arguing the long view just got screamed at.

          • peacfulseas inWA

            When you scream at or raise your voice in an argument you’ve lost the argument in my book. This a battle with many fronts and the court system is one of them. It may not change hearts and minds of the true haters that are dwindling as we speak but people are waking up and seeing the propaganda for what it is. Lies. And that our lives are not so different from the couple 2 doors down. I feel more than anything we must take control of the language. I always hated the term ” Gay Marriage “. That was imnsho was what civil unions and domestic partnerships were. In other words ” Everything but Marriage ” as 1st presented in WA state. The fight was for Marriage Equality, Marriage with the same rights, privilege , and responsibilities as any married couple

    • peacfulseas inWA

      I know it was the WA. State AG who started the ball rolling when a staffer showed him the gay couple’s post on FB. The couple went to social media in the 1st place. I believe but not 100% sure is true for the CO. baker as well.
      No hate just the facts of the matter. I have some similar feeling as you concerning the trans community .

      • Keroleen

        That’s a valid point, which I was also pondering. LGBT is a protected class re: discrimination in Oregon, so the state may, as they did in this case, choose to prosecute even if the aggrieved parties don’t. How do we avoid falling into the court remedy trap that fuow refers to if we’re not the ones suing?

        • peacfulseas inWA

          You don’t. The courts are only one of fronts in this war for our basic human rights.

  • JCF
  • I really wouldn’t want a Christian wedding cake. They look very sweet, but when you cut into them they’re so bitter!

    • jmax

      And if you eat too much, it poisons your mind and causes insanity.

  • Terry

    Where does it end if they are able to discriminate against gay couples wanting a cake?

  • SDG

    And of course, they won’t PAY that… since they probably have a “GoFundMe” somewhere for the Xtian crazies that support them.

    • Gianni

      My understanding is that a GoFundMe account was set up right after the fine was imposed and they have received at least $500,000 from it. Very profitable I’d say.

  • Paul

    I personally support $135K as a fine mainly due to the doxxing. If it weren’t for the doxxing, I think the fee would have been much lower.

  • David W. Shelton

    It’s interesting how the kleins neglect to mention they called the couple an abomination to their face and doxed them when they complained to the state about the incident. To hell with them and their religious impersonation.

  • Kissmagrits

    Welcome to the new, improved, balkanized America.
    Same old story….by dividing us, the 1% can keep us from realizing what they’ve been doing to us…and without benefit of clergy, I might add.

  • 3-Star

    When someone tells me they support the bakery owner’s decision I use an analogy to prove my point. I substitute “bakery” with ‘hospital” or “grocery store” and ask them “what if” they had to drive 50 miles to use a hospital or grocery store? Unless they are truly hateful they often get the point. Yes, we could go to another baker, yes we could bake our own cake and it would be probably be superior in decoration! However, today a cake. Tomorrow a life-threatening situation.

  • EdA

    So, so far these bigots have made over $300K out of their bigotry. They would have had to bake an awful lot of Christianist or neo-Nazi wedding cakes to make that kind of bread.

  • Kevin Andrews
  • juanjo54

    There are two factors of importance in this case. First the fine was high because of the actions of the couple owning the shop. They published the name, address, telephone number and other facts about the couple on line. They urged people to “contact” the couple which resulted in death threats, vandalism, and harassment which almost caused the state to remove the children from the family home.

    The second issue here is the complete invalidity of the religious argument here. Wedding cakes are not part of any religious ritual in any religious sect, Christian or otherwise. They are a totally secular dessert item served customarily at a secular celebration which takes place after the wedding, whether religious or not. You can search far and wide and not finds any religious mandate that cake must be served for the religious wedding to be consummated.

    This is exactly the situation described and discussed in the Christian Bible in 1 Corinthians 5:9-13:

    I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters; for then you would have to go out of the world. But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he should be an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler— not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves (1 Corinthians 5:9-13).

    Like these hypocrites owning a bakery, Paul was addressing the fact that the Christians in Corinth were going around the city criticizing the pagans, refusing to do business with them and generally behaving like douche bags all while allows all sorts of immorality to occur among the members of the Christian Community. This is not the first letter Paul wrote to the Corinthians. Paul indicates in verse 9 that he has previously written to the Corinthians on the subject of separation. In that first letter, he instructs them not to associate with immoral people. Paul’s previous instructions include unbelieving sinners of all kinds, those who are immoral, those who are covetous, those who swindle, and those who are idolaters. The Corinthians either misunderstood or twisted Paul’s words to mean something other than what Paul intends. They equated holiness with separation from unbelievers. They were essentially criticizing the pagans and Jews of Corinth for their actions, for example refusing to sell sheep, goats, chickens to pagans because they might use them in a pagan sacrifice. Meanwhile they have all sorts of issues among their own church members who apparently were engaging in incest and other highly immoral acts. Paul tells these people to deal with discipline in their own church and leave the non-believers alone.

  • xzargo

    You know, I would totally do him.

    • M Jackson

      I’d pass on that hate-fuck.

  • Kitchenman

    To seek a standard cake is one thing. But to force a custom creation against the artist, the builders, the bussiness mans will is evil. A cake was available, just not the evil saying.

  • Kitchenman

    How little here know the facts indicates you u take the news your u get without question. Be smarter people.