CBS News Fires Charlie Rose Over Sex Allegations

From the Hollywood Reporter:

Charlie Rose has been terminated by CBS News, network president David Rhodes announced Tuesday. The decision comes just one day after a Washington Post report detailing a pattern of coercion and harassment of women who worked – or aspired to work – on Rose’s eponymous nighttime talk show.

On Monday Bloomberg and PBS, which distributed Rose’s show, announced that they would cease to do so.

At CBS News, Rose was a longtime correspondent at 60 Minutes and in 2012 was the lynchpin along with Gayle King in the network’s revamped morning show, CBS This Morning. Norah O’Donnell joined the show shortly after its launch in January 2012; and the show has delivered its biggest morning audience to CBS News in 20 years.

  • Lazycrockett

    9 times out of 10 no 20 something female intern/employee wants to see your naked body in the workplace. nobody.

    • Circ09

      And the one that does only wants to so she can have a good laugh.

    • Todd20036

      Please. 9 times out of 10, most men see my naked body, and the most I get is a sympathy hug.

      • Reality.Bites

        There are, legitimately, people who are interested in those older than themselves. And when one meets one, they have ways of making it known.

        Dustin Lance Black didn’t have to waste time worrying if Tom Daley would think he’s a creep because Tom pursued him.

        • John30013

          Agreed, although Dustin wasn’t in any position of power over Tom, either. So even if Dustin had been the persuer, I wouldn’t find the situation problematic, unless Tom didn’t reciprocate and Dustin kept it up.

          The issue seems rooted in powerful people (men so far, although I’m sure there are some powerful women who’ve done similar things) who think they can get away with such behavior because of their position with respect to their victims. In addition, the perpetrators are usually protected by their organizations, and even though these things are often “open secrets”, nothing is done about them.

          I’m not sure what should be done about past incidents, but going forward there must be a zero-tolerance policy for such behavior.

    • JCF
  • Leo

    OT. If anyone will be debating politics this Thanksgiving, come prepared.

    Trump won on white grievance. Not wages. Not jobs. Race. Studies back this.

    Powerful, lengthy essay that’s #1 on The Atlantic trending right now.

    Please read the entire piece when you have the time.
    https://twitter.com/juliaioffe/status/932975195178102784

    • Butch

      I stopped going “home for the holidays” a long time ago and for a lot of reasons. But among them, many members of my family are warm, generous people, up until the very moment that politics are mentioned, at which point they become compendiums of Fox News talking points. The discussions aren’t worth it because they don’t go anywhere. I’ve learned to just keep repeating the phrase “I don’t talk politics” until they finally give up and the conversation returns to normal.
      (I did read most of the Serwer piece, by the way.)

      • Leo

        Oh we set that ground rule for my family years ago otherwise we can’t even make it through the meal. One of my favorite segments: https://twitter.com/JamesFallows/status/932994239709016064

      • Lazycrockett

        I just don’t care bout the extended family enough to get up make something get ready and drive a couple of hours on a day off, when I can do things I enjoy doing.

        • Butch

          The options are either a 6-hour drive or a plane flight, and a good part of my family wouldn’t know me if we passed on the street, so I have reason not to bother right there.

        • Chucktech

          Truly liberating, isn’t it? Sure is for me…

    • CB

      And, as The NY Times reports this morning, the so-called “Populist Agenda” was a lot of crap.
      https://nyti.ms/2jLVede

    • Todd20036

      Don’t forget misogyny. The idea of a female leader is very frightening to the Nazis.

    • Do Something Nice

      If we want to keep losing elections, we should view that as being a good article.

      Finding threads of ‘white nationalism’ among people who are struggling to keep their economic status while they are being fleeced by the very wealthy isn’t anything new. Reagan was the great Satan who first convinced the white middle class that they were ‘economic victims’ of programs for the poor and not the tax breaks and loopholes for the wealthy.

      People like Michael Moore, Van Jones and others have traveled to regions where there was unexpected support for Trump or unexpected non-voters to conduct interviews, focus groups etc., and their findings counter what this article has to say.

      • Boreal

        ‘If we want to keep losing elections.’

        Who’s we? Do you have a turd in your pocket? Didn’t you vote 3rd party?

      • Gustav2

        This article is what you hear after a few beers in a Midwestern basement rec room.

      • Leo

        Countered it how? Did you read the whole article? People earning under $50K voted for Hillary by a sizable margin. Across the board above that voted for Trump by healthy margins.

        The threads are there and I’m willing to start a debate on each of your points if you are, starting with a study of 3,300 WWC voters by The Atlantic/PRRI that it was fear of cultural displacement that was the #1 reason for their vote, not jobs or wages.

        I’ve seen your conversations on here re: Bernie and I have some energy left to start.

        • Do Something Nice

          I don’t understand your last sentence, but let’s put this to rest – I do not want Sanders to run for POTUS in 2020. And I voted for Clinton in November, 2016. I do want Sanders to keep the movement for single payer going because I don’t see anyone else doing much about healthcare. Democrats are split with many agreeing with Sanders and others, notably Pelosi and Feinstien, being against even ‘Medicare for all.’

        • Jonty Coppersmith

          It seems to me that fear of cultural displacement = racism.

          • The_Wretched

            Yes illegitimate and unfounded fears based on race = racism.

          • Longpole

            You mean the kind of racism like “The Mexicans are taking our jobs” ?

        • Do Something Nice

          And it’s about the Obama voters who didn’t bother to vote in 2016. Like in Michigan and Wisconsin.

          • The_Wretched

            I still refuse to blame the voters when things like Crosscheck killed the registrations of 3x the number of voters vs the margin.

      • Jonty Coppersmith

        If they keep voting for Republicans, they will continue to be fleeced by the very wealthy.

        • Do Something Nice

          Oh, I agree.

    • Gustav2

      That is the first thing I said to my husband on Wednesday morning, “It was racism.”

    • CB

      Good heavens, what a disturbing article. But the lesson is that drumpf and co leveraged a classic narrative (however spurious) that people bought in to. I’m hurt economically by “the other.”

    • La’Kietha

      It wasn’t the whites that turned out in greater number for trump. It was black people in the rust belt states that didn’t turn out for Hillary like they did for Obama.

      • Leo

        It was both.

      • The_Wretched

        bite me.

        PoC are not responsible for voter id laws, closed and inconvenient voting stations and other shenanigans done to depress their turn out.

        • Lazycrockett

          Yep poor urban communities had one polling place for miles and miles, while rural communities had one every couple of feet.

        • Do Something Nice

          All of that is true, but it is also true that thousands of voters who voted for Obama didn’t vote at all in 2016.

      • Do Something Nice

        It was a lot of things, and in my opinion, it was Comey, misogyny and Clinton campaign errors – in that order. Those rust belt Obama supporters – some white, some black, stayed home in part because of Clinton campaign flubbing by thinking they had the votes so they didn’t bother to “waste any time” in those areas, which was a huge miscalculation.

        • Joseph Miceli

          These are the exact same people that ousted Howard Dean and his 50 State Strategy the first chance they got. Funny how he was the last one to be a successful kingmaker.

          • William

            Howard Dean yelled and that frightened the sensitive voters in Iowa.

          • Do Something Nice

            lol!

          • The_Wretched

            that was a media hatchet job.

          • Joseph Miceli

            Howard Dean yelled and the Republican Smear Machine went into action. Bearing false witness is just something Republicans do every day.

          • Lazycrockett

            It wasn’t the GOP as much as it was CNN editing the sound to make Dean look like a lunatic. I will hold a grudge against CNN for that till my last breath.

          • Joseph Miceli

            Hmmmm. That was back in the age of Karl Rove. CNN may have thrown the ball, but the GOP ran with it.

        • Chucktech

          “I’m all butthurt cuz Clinton didn’t come to my state, so I’m not voting for her.”

          One of the three legs of the Trump stool: Stoopid people.

          • Do Something Nice

            Yeah, I don’t understand either. But the DNC chiefs for both Michigan and Ohio say that their pleas were ignored by Mook.

          • marshlc

            Anyone so stupid as to use their vote to “reward” the candidate that comes to their area, as opposed to the candidate with good policy ideas, deserves the country they get as a consequence.

    • William

      I can’t wait to ask my father if there is still no proof that anyone from the Trump campaign had contact with Russians.

      • If he lives in a right wing bubble, he still hasn’t heard any evidence that he will find credible. Don’t expect facts to smash through the far right media noise machine.

        • William

          A boy can dream….

    • Actually the only way to do family Thanksgiving is to do what my family did last year and agree on a no politics rule. None. (This needs to come from whichever family member everyone is the most afraid of. You know the one who would be on death row if looks could kill. That one.) You aren’t going to do any good by getting into an emotional shouting match while you’re trying to eat. Use that time to catch up on what everyone has been doing. If you want to argue, go do it someplace else.

      • marshlc

        Another good way is to only invite the people who are not racist assholes or otherwise politically impossible. Our holiday meals are fairly small but very harmonious.

        • I was referencing family gatherings. I forget that not everyone is related mostly to Teavangelical nutjobs.

    • Longpole

      Interesting article, but I still wonder about what happens when the Deplorable’s find themselves no better off than before Cheeto got elected?

  • Kevin Andrews

    This modern day witch hunt, empowering the Vagina to wreak havoc with just an accusation, defines the Fascist Bastards through and through.

    • Lazycrockett

      sounds like someone is guilty.

    • RaygunsGoZap

      LOL. You keep telling yourself that. Also, “the Vagina” exposes you as the scummy misogynist that you are.

    • Jeffrey

      I do have a problem with someone’s career being ended by a mere accusation and I think there is some of that going on. But I’m sure CBS had some good evidence behind firing someone so prominent.

    • WNY
      • Boreal

        Sure is and a blocked one at that.

        • coram nobis

          A constipated troll?

          • Boreal

            Ex-Lax for trolls now with more fiber.

          • Chucktech

            More carpet tacks…

    • Ragnar Lothbrok

      Poor Kevin is sad that Rats have to endure a bright light upon them.

    • stevenj

      Sounds like it defines…..you.

    • edrex

      ironic. witch hunts were invented to eliminate empowered vaginas. (and don’t get me started on who is responsible for the bastards in the world. hint: it’s not the empowered vaginas. )

    • Chucktech

      Yeah, that must be why they’re all folding like the cheap suits they are. Except, of course, for the truly giant, snorting pigs like Trump and gawdly Roy Mo-wer.

    • Joseph Miceli

      “Empowering the vagina…”
      Dehumanizing people is one of the very first things fascists do. Besides…I mean…really? Even if you don’t love your mother or a sister or cousin or friend, do you really speak that way to all “vagina-Americans?” Shame on you!

  • Beth Sanders

    oh my.

    • Tomcat

      Don’t act so surprised, your president is one of them.

    • Ragnar Lothbrok

      I think we’ve heard enough from you.

      • Todd20036

        Yeah, I’m getting tired of her condescending tone, too

        • Chucktech

          In christ, no less…

        • Joseph Miceli

          I’m sitting this one out. If anyone wants a concern troll, I’m out to lunch.
          Besides, everyone has been making some excellent points. There were so many factors at play last election I don’t think you can just pinpoint one and everyone seems to be doing a good job of unearthing the REAL factors.

    • Boreal

      Poor BS, you’ve overstayed your welcome and you upvote your own posts. That can only mean one thing: you’re getting blocked and joining the many other trolls who’ve infested this site in your newfound irrelevance.
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/58f537de0a66804b905930f68ec670677bd3b3b17666b4e3f9e16ac5dff4b38c.gif

      • Beth Sanders

        Hi Boreal i am sorry you feel that way. Will pray for you.

    • Jonathan Smith

      Oh. Good lord. The bitch is back?
      Bless her. And her russian overlord’s

    • stevenj
    • edrex

      don’t worry yourself about these things. have another dubonnet before your nap.

  • Tomcat

    Ladies, now is the time for you to be heard. Come forward now or forever allow men to keep you down forever.

  • MikeBx2

    To get away with sexual harassment and/or assault you have to get Evangelicals and a Republican Congress on your side. The rest of us will not tolerate it.

  • TJay229

    Damn Charlie, Shit!

    • Chucktech

      Yup. Sorry you’re a pig, but if that’s what you are, buh bye…

  • bkmn

    Can Wolf Blitzer be next, please?

    • Ragnar Lothbrok

      ^^^^God please^^^^

      • Boreal

        Chuck Toad.

        • Joseph Miceli

          He is SUCH a whore! Everyone was like, “He finally grew a pair” when he did a few hard hitting interviews, completely forgetting how he’s been trading soft ball interviews to Republicans for access to them for years. I LOATHE him!

          • Boreal

            Pretty sure he is a republican.

          • Joseph Miceli

            Weren’t you listening?I just SAID he was a whore.
            (smirk)

  • MT YVR

    It’s frightening. Abuse is abuse. I also believe in the rule of law. Which means accusation legally is the FIRST step. But people seem to be jumping from that to the last step without investigation, without due process, just… if there’s enough noise, we’re going to skip all that and just go for firing.

    I’m not – because I absolutely know some one will do this – saying they shouldn’t be fired. And I’m not saying they shouldn’t be fired for abusing/harassing people. Absolutely anyone who is proven to do those things should be fired. And more.

    I’m saying from accusation to firing should involve the steps that are there, legally. Not… just… this. It’s troubling. And I just know someone will snarl about this being protecting men. It’s not. It’s about protecting the fairness of society through enforcement of the law. These guys should be charged, brought to court and every inch of the law should fall on them like a Kansas house in Oz. YES we should be pressing that more of these cases make it to trial and that YES more of these trials should be fair with far less “prove it against a negative pressure of disbelief”. But we should NOT be just… ignoring process at all and … (waves hand at media) THIS.

    • Gregory B

      Due process is what the Trump administration would love to eliminate.

    • Skeptical_Inquirer

      The problem is this: the legal system has continually failed over and over again to take attacks against women seriously. If the legal system actually worked or gave a shit about attacks on women, this explosion wouldn’t be happening.

      We have a rape where two witnesses were totally willing to back the victim up and the perp STILL only got less than a year and the judge whined about the perp’s life being ruined.

      Tons of cities have backlogs of rape kits still untested. I even heard of some kits having mold on them.

      Take “Spotlight.” Children were being preyed upon for decades and it took an outsider to push for actual investigation to happen because priestly fee-fees and not embarrassing the Church were seen as more important.

      • JAKvirginia

        “…the legal system has continually failed…” Okay. And where are the men who are aware of these actions and who stand up and say “knock it off”? Why wait for the legal system? Seems there are many, many men who are complicit in these cases if only by ignoring or disregarding other men’s actions. THAT is what women find disheartening. Where are their protectors? And BTW, this crap happens to men, too. It’s societal and systemic and historical, making it something difficult to change and yet it must change.

    • ‘Due process’ = How and why you might be charged with a crime and, if found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt by a jury of your peers, be sentenced for that crime.

      Due process doesn’t apply to employment. Nor the right to be on TV or to have a publisher sell your books. Nor the right to continue to do stage performances.

      Let me tell you a little story: About 25 years ago, I worked for a major tech company. There was this one middle manager who was an absolute horror to work for. Guys mostly just didn’t like him because he was abrasive and a shitty manager. For women, it was a different story.

      He screamed at us. He berated us. He gave us the worst assignments and deliberately set us up to fail. Whenever possible, he’d replace us on his staff with less qualified men, and then would pay them more than the woman they replaced.

      Finally, we had enough. A bunch of us had collected lots of evidence, but mostly what we had was this man’s reputation and our common narrative.

      Ultimately, we weren’t able to get this man fired, but we did at least get him demoted to a position where he was no longer supervising anybody.

      Was there “due process”? Nope. Did we act appropriately? Absolutely.

      The problem with situations like Charlie Rose and Roy Moore and Kevin Spacey and Louis CK and so many others is in nearly every case their transgressions are well known and because they’re famous or are in a position of power, they are given a pass. Well, no more.

      • MT YVR

        I’m bowing out. I know better.

        Because this is never going to be discussed.

        I was born and raised in an abusive family. Court wasn’t an option. Kids, who gives a shit. I was raped and court wasn’t an option because guys, who gets raped?

        I get it, Becca. I am actually on the side of firing people like this. I’m also on the side of strengthening the system and actually taking this shit seriously. But of course that’s not going to be what we talk about.

        Instead we’re going to talk about cases where we’re certain of the evidence. We’re certain of everything that happened. The slam dunks. Not every case is going to be that though. And I worry. I worry about how to tread the line I think should be tread of making sure we eradicate this kind of shit (because I absolutely want it gone) AND make sure that we acknowledge that “we” are not at every crime scene. We’re not in every situation, knowing ALL the facts.

        I’m tired. I’m tired of knowing that this, what I’ve just said will be read with a condescending tone of “protect the men” when it couldn’t be any further from that stance. I’m tired of wanting to protect people and not wanting it to be “there are only The Right Kind Of People To Protect”. Whenever this topic comes up if these words are said they’re always and forever stained with “protect the instigator” because it’s in cases like this where we’re all perfectly clear on what happened. We have the evidence, we have the stories, we know what happened. So bringing it up will ALWAYS be: I’m defending Rose’s actions.

        I’m not. Never have. And I’m tired of this shit being about that. I actually tired of people intentionally misreading it into this kind of thing where I need to be “Schooled” on what it’s like. I actually already know. I’m just not willing to assume every case is open and closed as presented by media.

        So. Cheers. You’re right. I’m out. I’ll shut up now.

        • It’s okay, and thanks for your heartfelt insights and the time you took to explain what you mean.

        • Chucktech

          No need to shut up, I hear you and understand you.

          The difference, though, with Charlie Rose, Louis CK, Kevin Spacey, Weinstein (and a few others recently) is that they folded like the guilty, cheap suits they are. Even Al Franken. He admitted, gave a full and heartfelt apology and the apology was accepted.

          Contrast that to pigs like Roy Moore and Donald Trump. It’s they who should have to be forced to acknowledge their porcine past, and that’s what litigation can coerce. They won’t confess to what we ALL know (or VERY strongly suspect we know, thanks to courageous victims) they did? Fine. Make them pay.

      • jerry

        Similar story, different ending: For 4 years, right out of college, I worked for Public Debt (Dept of Treasury) as a securities analyst, along with about 75 others in that department. (Note: they were incredibly backward technologically–everything was done by hand…we even still had a steno pool, 1986-91.) Our supervisor harassed many, especially women and, specifically one who sat next to me…he had previously asked her out, she declined. He was protected by the department managers–he had transferred there when the Chicago office closed in the early ’70s–and his one friend in the building, the main personnel officer. It really made for a hostile work environment and, right before I left, there was a general mass grievance against him from the entire department. His friend in personnel conducted the investigation and, of course, found no problem. Six months after I left, everyone invited me out for a party because the supervisor was transferred to a computer analyst job. A guy who’d never touched a computer in his life was given a promotion, but he was shoved in a closet where he’d never have to deal with other people, or surpervise them, again.

    • The_Wretched

      The ship has sailed on work place protections and generally, it’s easy to fire people. Other countries have very different rules and require ’cause’ and process. So far as that’s the case in the US, this summary expulsion is all the process anyone gets.

    • another_steve

      Problem is the proverbial “he said/she said” thingy.

      If all you have are two competing allegations, how do you prove in a court of law that one is “right” and the other is “wrong”? Keeping in mind that in these cases there’s usual no physical proof to present. No photos or the like.

      Even a third party’s “confirming” of the victim’s story is just a determination of that third party’s credibility.

      “S/he told me about the incident right after it occurred.”

      How do you “prove” that?

      • The_Wretched

        Civil suits are on a ‘preponderance’ of the evidence test. The trier of fact gets to decide who is credible based on the testimony and they come to a conclusion. The goal isn’t fairness, the goal is making decisions.

        Criminal suits are “beyond a reasonable doubt”. Lawyers are always careful to say that standard is something less than “scientific certainty” but more than “preponderance”.

        At law, many crimes and torts are he said /she said and a witness’ statements are taken as recitations of fact evidence. That’s legal proof and normal for the full range of cases types.

        • another_steve

          When it comes to these sexual harassment cases, there is a bit of a dilemma, I think, when it comes to establishing “preponderance.” The dynamics in these cases are unique.

          If I’m Steve Bannon and I get thirty very credible-sounding upstanding people to say in a court of law, “Yes, I saw Hillary Clinton inappropriately touching teenage boys on this and this date at this this and this location,” how do you “prove” those people are lying?

          Do you believe or dismiss the allegations solely because you’re partisan and either like/trust Hillary Clinton or don’t like/trust her?

          • The_Wretched

            Welcome to the legal process 101. People can be set up with fraud on the legal system. I actually doubt such an attempt would work. It’s not in her character and her movements are well tracked. There would also be likely perjury or other criminal charges brought against the false accusers.

      • Skeptical_Inquirer

        I usually go by pattern of behavior. People rarely behave a certain way to just one person then angelic to others. If I am HR and I get a ton of complaints about one person, yeah, that one person is a problem.

        Take Roy Moore. Tons of people knew about his behavior because a lot of these guys don’t bother to hide it. They just didn’t know what to do with it or where to go with it.

        I understand not going on just one person’s account. I also understand checking the person’s accounts for date/time discrepancies and if they have credibility issues like being an insanely vexatious litigator.

        Also most companies are not in a hurry to dump their cash cow if they can ride out the storm. As you yourself have pointed out, they’re amoral and only concerned with $$$. Bill O’ was just so persistent that he had to be cut.

        • The_Wretched

          Bill O’ was also just the tip of the iceberg. that problem was endemic to Faux News all the way up.

        • another_steve

          The evidence in the Roy Moore case is overwhelming. His having been banned from various venues (facts, not mere allegations) pretty much tells the whole story.

          The Al Franken case troubles me a bit, though. Yes, the photo of him touching her breasts while she was asleep reflects despicable judgment on his part. It was crass and vulgar and he should surely be ashamed of himself. But “a crime”? I don’t know about that.

          His accuser has been shown to be a rightwing hack who’s made the round of Fox News – something that the media in its current “sexual harassment frenzy” never mentions.

          I share MT YVR’s concerns – as he expressed them above.

    • Cuberly Deux

      Looks like the broader issue concerning the accusations against Rose was the fact that accusers approached management with complaints about his behavior and nothing was done. In this instance CBS is in the crosshairs, deservedly so. Cutting loose Rose w/ his record of complaints against him seems like the only way to go, in this instance.

      • Ragnar Lothbrok

        Charlie fired someone for even talking about it.

        • Cuberly Deux

          Yep.

        • coram nobis

          So that someone has another count to put on the civil complaint. And if his employer was in any way involved (CBS HR dept?) then that’s their liability as well, reprisal as well as complicity in the original misconduct.

          • Ragnar Lothbrok

            If I remember right ( pre coffee ) it was one of his own employees.
            No HR, No nuthin…

          • The more famous and/or powerful the man, the more he can get away with, up to and including ruining the lives and careers of any victim who dares to speak up.

          • coram nobis

            It’s still an added allegation against him, if nothing else. It’ll look awfully bad when the jury is deciding punitive damages.

      • coram nobis

        CBS is backing away from liability — they can be named as co-defendants as his employer — but they may not be able to back away far enough. No doubt they’ll talk to their lawyers about settling out of court as quietly as possible.

      • ^ This. In nearly every case of some man being held accountable now for sexual harassment or assaults, there will have been ignored reports and attempts to have it dealt with going back years or decades. For the worst offenders, go back 5, 10, or 20 years and there’ll be legal settlements that pay out money, but only in exchange for silence by the victims.

        And so the predator just gets to continue doing what he’s been doing his entire life.

        • Cuberly Deux

          Oh it’s just Charlie being Charlie….yeah, that kind of thing.

          I’ve worked at enough places to witness those peculiar group dynamics that begin to develop, especially centered around those with strong personalities or the ones that bring home the bacon, so to speak.

          Behavior that would be frowned upon in public begins to become the implied norm of the group. And the pressure to maintain that status quo including the bad behavior can be intense.

    • If you notice, Harvey Weinstein has not been arrested.. yet. Hence due process for criminal cases.

      From what is coming out about Charlie Rose, this is a pattern of behavior that went on for years and was with many women, with lots of corroborating evidence.. It was long overdue.. Job Termination and civil cases have a lower bar of evidence before there is a judgement..

    • Brooklyn Joe

      For what it’s worth – and different circumstances – my ex was arrested in the 1980s on a NYC subway car for sexually molesting a female passenger (the cops claimed that he had acted inappropriately in a crowded subway car). They pulled him off the train and held in a cell for hours (in a subway station) and told him it was better to plead guilty that it would be no big deal. Well he happened to be British and this could have affected his status coming into the country to teach as he was doing at a university. They also berated him and called him disgusting and a perverted English professor. Well, he didn’t plead guilty and was able to afford a good lawyer as many cannot – who tracked down the women victim – who then said he never touched her. The cops had dragged her off the train too. Well months later it turned out the transit cops in a famous front page NY Times piece were guilty of upping their arrests to reach a quota of arrests. MY ex wound up being part of a class action suit against the subway cops – as they had done to this many other people. Obviously Charlie Rose, LouieCK, Kevin Spacey did things – a lot of things – yet still – being proved guilty in a court of law is important to prove innocence or guilt. As Becca pointed out – an accusation does not need to be proved for you to lose your job – nor right to be on TV or publish your book — but to go from accusation to guilt is quite a leap.

  • Lazycrockett
    • Tread

      That’s why I love Olivia Munn.

    • Chucktech

      Well, Ms. Munn, we have to start somewhere. What’s your big idea to stop these male porcine proclivities?

      • SoCalGal20

        Many men apparently need to be taught what boundaries are and what they actually mean. Toxic masculinity and male privilege need to be addressed. And men need to get it through their brain that there WILL be negative consequences for doing things like this. Just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean you should.

        • marshlc

          Saw a little boy with a T shirt the other day – “Boys will be…held accountable for their actions”. Betcha his mom bought it for him.

          And, yeah, seeing that there are real consequences for actions brings down the frequency of the actions. There will always be huge assholes, there will always be criminals. This is not a problem that is ever going to completely go away.

          But I can promise you that there is a store manager somewhere, there is a chef, there is a mid-level executive, who has been thinking of pushing things a little with some subordinate, and who on watching the news the last few weeks has decided maybe it’s better just to get an OK Cupid account instead. Or go home to the wife.

          And there are people on dates, right this minute, where one of them is thinking “I think I’m gonna ask, rather than just going for the kiss and chancing that it’s OK”.

          Anybody who thinks that “Can I kiss you?” isn’t sexy hasn’t been asked in the right way by the right person.

          • AlternativeQuacks

            I totally agreed with your first two paragraphs. It would be nice to agree with your last two, but everything I instinctively know or have learned about people in my near 6 decades of life tells me it is wishful thinking of the most unrealistic variety.

            I think we’re going to need to legalize prostitution, since everything is turning into a legal transaction anyways.

        • robindaybird

          Boys will be Boys is an attitude that needs to be chucked out fast, and long as men sympathized with the idea of being rejected more than with the idea of being creeped on, they’ll sympathize with the Nice Guys(tm) who whine that a woman threw a drink in their face for trying to cop a feel, and downplay the woman’s discomfort and stress.

      • JD

        This issue is power & othering, not gender per se. Patriarchy has put more men in power, so that’s what we see. But so long as we pretend it is gender, not power, not othering, the problem will continue.

    • BobSF_94117

      I’ll believe they’re out to reform the system when they start pillorying women who tried to sleep their way to the top.

      • zhera

        Umm, is that a ‘both sides’ talking point? Because sleeping their way to the top is hardly in the same category as predatory, sexual abuse/assault/manipulation.

        • BobSF_94117

          No, the “both sides” talking point is that silly claim that women are chasing down boys on the streets of Atlanta (or whatever city it was).

  • Cuberly Deux

    “I always felt that I was pursuing shared feelings.”

    WTF?

    • Lazycrockett

      exactly.

    • That’s what men who do this ALWAYS think.

      • Reality.Bites

        Hell, men have committed rapes with extreme violence and thought the same.

        • JCF

          “Her mouth said ‘no’, but her eyes said ‘YES!'” }-0<<<

    • Ross

      That is common with abusers.

      They really think the other person is enjoying it.

      My small-town postmaster was like that. He was constantly hitting on women (even though he was married) and used sexuality explicit language.

      Then, he dropped his pants in front of one customer, showing his ass.

      She filed a complaint.

      And he was shocked! “I thought she was enjoying it!”

      He harassed a friend of mine, a young lesbian. He offered to give her a video of himself jerking off. She never pushed back against any of this (“I just don’t know what to do”) but she eventually started going to another post office. When I told him all this he has the same response. “I thought she was enjoying it!”

      • Chucktech

        Jesus fucking christ, how monumentally CLUELESS do you have to be??

        • coram nobis

          At some point it’s sociopathic behavior, not cluelessness, it would seem.

        • It is not cluelessness, it is an excuse when caught.. It is sadism, they also learn to go on the offensive when caught, “How dare you accuse me” is a common deflection.. Hence why women don’t want to report it.. it opens up another battle..

      • William

        She should have taken the video and sent it to the local news station and the US Postmaster General.

      • Skeptical_Inquirer

        It’s too bad nobody tased his butt and said, “He offered it to me, he consented.”

  • Pollos Hermanos

    CBS fires Charlie Rose after the Washington Post publishes a well sourced in depth report on sexual harassment of adult women.

    Roy Moore is accused of fingering a 14 year old and harassing other teenagers in a well sourced Washington Post report and Conservative Christians in the GOP are all….

    ¯_(ツ)_/¯

  • Skeptical_Inquirer

    I’m reminded of a major complaint of women trying to use the internet to date. They get unsolicited dick picks by idiot men who seem to think it’s a winner and not just an unwanted wiener. One woman made a presentation of over 100 dick pics she and her friends got.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dick-pics-art-whitney-bell_us_59399965e4b0c5a35c9d654c

    • shivadog

      I never understood that, are women ever like “what a great penis, sure, I will go on a date with you” https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/17811a09a8c063d2b73244ce1fdf677521936437b1c100df2e73c176c91a325f.jpg

      • The answer is no, we’re never like that. Well, the vast majority of us anyway.

        • shivadog

          I kind of figured. I do wonder why guys keep doing it.

      • mr wonderful

        In my wastrel youth, I made decisions based on a picture like that.

        • shivadog

          Oh great, now I have to re-draw my chart. 🙂

      • Zeldacat

        In my experience women just don’t react to penises the same way men might look at, say, breasts. I mean, they can be fun, but aesthetically there are way more attractive parts of the male body IMO.

        Also if you’re enough of an asshole to send a dick pic I wouldn’t touch you with a ten-foot pole.

        • shivadog

          That is the reaction I would expect, which makes me wonder why men keep doing it. Is it just to be an asshole, or do they really think it is going to work?

          • Zeldacat

            I think it’s more just to be an asshole, but probably the occasional asshole thinks it might work as well.

  • Ragnar Lothbrok

    I wonder how many news anchors , celebs, guys in general are thinking : ” oh god I hope she doesn’t say anything.”

    • Jonathan Smith

      Not enough.
      It was not abuse when i did it

    • Chucktech

      Oh, no others, I’m sure…

    • Leo

      The Shitty Media Men Google Doc shared amongst industry women had hundreds of men at its peak on it before it was closed following Buzzfeed’s reporting.

      Hundreds.

    • The_Wretched

      Even on the 8 women with credible claims of a consistent and non-trivial MO standard, we are probably in for a wave of fire / resignations.

  • Ragnar Lothbrok
    • WNY

      Gross

    • Lazycrockett

      http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/jeremy-piven-groping-allegations-lie-detector-test-arianne-bellamar-entourage-a8066891.html

      According to The Blast, Piven took polygraph tests regarding three claims – including an additional two made by Tiffany Bacon Sourby and Amy Meador – as well as a blanket lie detector test to determine if he’d ever assaulted a woman, and was found to pass with “no signs of deception.”

      • Ragnar Lothbrok

        riiiiiiiight

      • Skeptical_Inquirer

        The problem with lie detector tests is the idea that people naturally and involuntarily stress at lying. A lot of people just do NOT do so.

      • William

        I read a book years ago that explained how the lie detector works. At the end of the section, it stated that anyone who read read it may not give reliable results and might be ineligible to take the test.

      • Sociopaths and psychopaths can easily beat polygraphs.

        They only work when there’s a sense of conscience and shame.

        • William

          That rules out Trump.

      • Lie Detector Test are gimmicks. They are not valid, one reason they are not allowed in a court of law.. They are tools in cornering suspects, or making people nervous if they are hiding something. They can also be easily passed, The test records one’s reaction to the question..

  • Chucktech

    Filthy pig. Great way to end your career, you asshole.

  • Harveyrabbit

    Slightly OT:

    “Alabama ex-cop says she was tasked with keeping Roy Moore away from cheerleaders at high school games”

    https://www.rawstory.com/2017/11/alabama-ex-cop-says-she-was-tasked-with-keeping-roy-moore-away-from-cheerleaders-at-high-school-games/

    • Leo

      speechless. nothing was supposed to surprise me anymore. whew. k.

    • William

      “He’s a child molester, but he’s our child molester.”

    • (((vomit)))

    • The_Wretched

      Sometimes I like to talk about warning signs and red flags….banned from a mall and given personal minders to stop problems would be two very red flags. And still they went forward with him on the Alabama State Supreme Court for years and now for Senate.

      And um, how many more stories like this are out there on Moore? It’s been like one a day for > 2 weeks now. Did Jones have all this too and use it or are the rawstory / buzzfeed stories the trickle out of Jones’ oppo?

      • Where I grew up, they elected a guy to be a state representative that gives me the creeps. Prior to him running, I heard things about him being a bit “weird,” but nothing sexually inappropriate. The first time we met face to face was at a high school football game. He was running for office, and shaking hands. I couldn’t help notice that he was staring at my sisters breasts. Anyway the purpose of this rant is to say I don’t know what’s wrong with humanity where we elect these obvious creeps.

        • The_Wretched

          2 party system and lack of transparency.

          • Absolutely. But even with the 2 party system, I know they can find someone who believes the Republican nonsense that doesn’t have cut up doll’s heads buried in their backyard.

          • The_Wretched

            Systems return what they set up to select for. The predominant filter on the highest level right now is ability to garner large donations of cash from the wealthiest Americans(*and maybe non-US). They, as a class, like politicians who do their bidding and who do not care about the negative impacts of doing their bidding. that means the least ethical tools are winning much more than they should.

    • Skeptical_Inquirer

      That man has no damn self control. I think he should be permanently in this get-up.

      https://youtu.be/XOAVEqND_Ns?t=34s

    • Lazycrockett

      This is why he will get elected. Everyone knows and they are fine with it.

      • JT

        Confirmation of what we knew already: fundygelicals are scum.

    • JT
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  • Leo
    • The_Wretched

      Right, so Charlie Rose is the only one? Were I in CBS HR dept, I’d be scanning the books for the others.

  • Professor Barnhardt
    • AlternativeQuacks

      LOL.

  • JWC

    Sadly, its almost becoming an assured thing to wake up each and every moning with a new sexual harrassment allegation against someone. Maybe it would be easier if all of those who didn’t, never would, never had be involved in, to come forward to proclaim their innocence. That way we would apparently have a shorter list and it would lessen the surprise for us of the others

  • Jonathan Smith

    Damn! The trolls are strong on this one.
    I suck dick
    Have NEVER molested anyone, much less a child.
    But hey! Lets all vote for Roy anyways!

  • I like “the shared feelings” part..

  • Joseph Miceli

    Maybe some of the elder gays can tell me, who was it who said that power was the greatest aphrodisiac when referring to Henry Kissenger?
    I think an entire generation of very ugly and very sociopathic men bought into that. “I may be a fat, bald hairy hunchback with crossed eyes and a hairlip, but I’m the power behind the throne and that turns women (and men!) on!”
    Does it really? I think we are getting our answer now.

    • stevenj

      “Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac” –
      Henry Kissenger

      • coram nobis

        Power enables anything to a powerful sociopath. A pity he never faced trial for crimes against humanity.

        • stevenj

          He and several others.

      • Joseph Miceli

        Well, I guess he WOULD say that. He’d almost have to. Yuck.

      • JAKvirginia

        For whom, Henry?

    • Skeptical_Inquirer

      I know there are some gold diggers who are willing to overlook anything for $$$ and bling but the men seriously overestimate the number of people willing to overlook things like a tattoo of Nixon on their back.

      • Joseph Miceli

        “tattoo of Nixon on their back!” OMG, I think I’d have to flip him over. No way could I function. The combination of “ewww” and laughter would undo me!

    • Ben in Oakland

      doesn’t do a thing for me. I prefer cute and decent.

    • Lazycrockett

      Washington DC, Hollywood for ugly people. was a saying I heard numerous times.

  • coram nobis

    A second accuser for Al Franken comes forward.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/20/us/politics/a-second-woman-accuses-al-franken-of-inappropriate-touching.html

    “He said/she said” gets more problematic as it becomes a series of accusers, suggesting a pattern. Remember also with each accuser, as with Charlie Rose, that employment law often defines sexual harassment as persistent and unwanted comments or activity — for each accuser. It suggests that perpetrators are not inadvertent or inconsistent. It’s not one incident, and not isolated. CBS probably was already aware Charlie Rose was a problem but only now jettisoned him.

    • Treant

      In this case, Franken’s first accuser. His 0th one invalidated herself by being gropey, an ardent Trump supporter, and having oh-so-many questionable connections.

      • coram nobis

        Yes, and with Franken it’s still early. What I’m saying is look for a pattern. With a true perpetrator it’ll emerge, as with Rose.

    • A second accuser…who said Franken put his hand on her ass during a photo.

      Even as I feel strongly that men do need to be held to account for what they’ve been getting away with (to wit, my comment below), I’m also well aware there’s a significant difference between that and what these other men have been accused of doing. Lewd phone calls & messages. Actual sexual assaults. Nudity. Reprisals against victims.

      I had a knee-jerk reaction about Franken. Then we found out there was indeed a lot of consensual tomfoolery on these USO tours. And it did not pass my notices that the Russian bot swarms began pushing the Twitter hashtags, apparently starting on the day when people began making the connection between Moore’s pedophilia and Trump’s own behavior and accusations against him.

      I’m reserving judgment on Franken. And I do not think he should resign.

      • Treant

        Not that grabbing ass is OK, as both of us are fully aware and neither of us are condoning (to short-circuit the inevitable). But yes, it’s comparatively minor and also a lot easier to misinterpret. There’s a difference between “grabbing ass” and “having one’s hand slip from the waist to momentarily land on the ass.”

        BTDT on the second one (I once accidentally breast-groped an old Jewish woman during a wind storm on a ferry in Maine; it was that or land on my nose).

        • Robincho

          O/T, but a FunFact™, particularly in your case:

          The longest single-word palindrome, according to Guinness, is the Finnish word for one who has to do with lye —

          SAIPPUAKIVIKAUPPIAS…

          • Treant

            I just stole that for the soap making board. If my husband allows, I totally owe you a hands-free BJ for that.

            The word in English is, “Saponifier.” Regrettably, not a palindrome…

          • Robincho

            I’m possibly detecting a linguistic bridge between English “sap” & Finnish “saip”.., R U 2?…

          • Treant

            Absolutely! “Saponify” comes from the root “saipa,” (and others that are so closely related that it’s not worth discussing). Which is descended from the Latin “sebum,” meaning “fat,” and a word we still use today.

            Finnish has a strong Germanic link and English, of course, is a Germanic language. QED, they both got it from the same word.

          • Treant

            Aaand it’s posted!

        • canoebum

          In the first complaint, they were rehearsing a skit, for christsakes. This was a USO tour, show business. In this case they were on a stage with a lot of other people around. This wasn’t some situation where Franken lured the model/actress into his dressing room for tryst. We don’t know how many other people were around in that photo either, which looks mostly like a harmless setup for gag. He was a professional comedian known for pushing boundaries. She knew that and was likely playing along. There has always been a lot of tomfoolery on those gigs. They were there to entertain soldiers, not choir boys. I think his accuser is taking advantage of him to audition for a gig on Fox. Nothing more. As for the second complaint, whatever evidence there is seems scant, at best. Who sexually harasses at a state fair with thousands of people watching? It makes no sense. Me-too-ism at its worst.

          • Treant

            Agreed. No need to be strident, I’m completely comfortable with throwing out the first accusation and I’m not convinced yet by the second, which seems really spurious.

            Now mind, with a date I’ll play grab-ass in private, but doing it in public with somebody I don’t know, even if they’re inviting it? Never. And I’m a slut.

      • SoCalGal20

        Somebody needs to tell Indivisble and some other Dem groups that. Very disappointed they were asking for his resignation at this point. Suspect accusations and something completely different from what Roy Moore or even Charlie Rose are accused of.

        Franken and Conyers (tjough Conyers appears to deserve whatever shit he’s getting) are absolutely Republican ops.

        • Ninja0980

          Yup.
          Someone who pushes the notion that date rape doesn’t exist (Cernovich) does NOT have good intentions at heart with the Conyers story.

    • The_Wretched

      http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/tv/ct-snl-women-al-franken-letter-of-support-20171121-story.html

      Frankin is getting support from the SNL women as well. I’m holding off on his condemnation.

      • coram nobis

        Let’s see if anything else emerges.

    • Ernest Endevor

      I think the first accusation is fairly ridiculous. Don’t know about the second or if it’s a pattern with him.

  • Tomcat

    What will be an outrage is if Moore gets elected to Senate and Franken gets thrown out. But that is probably what will happen.

    • Chucktech

      Franken’s not going anywhere unless either he or his constituents say so.

      But, yeah, Republican pigs will be all “hail the new Seantor from the great state of Alabama, Roy Moore.”

    • Franken won’t be thrown out of the Senate.., he may get an ethics investigation, but if there are not anymore allegations, he should be okay..

      • JCF

        That’s what I said w/ one allegation. With two, it’s odd’s on there will be more. [And if they’re like the first two—beyond that insane pic of course—I know I will be left w/ agonizing ambivalence.]

  • Bert_Bauer

    I always thought he was one of those rare talented interviewers like Terry Gross who know the non-obvious questions to ask and how to ask it. All that takes a backseat to sexual harassment now. Aside from the whole patriarchy/power thing, I think the same ego that lets public figures take the slings and arrows of being in the public eye also give them a false sense of invincibility.

  • Tomcat

    Our society is also at fault because for too long it was just acceptable for men to act like dicks. Not their actions are coming back to haunt them.

  • alc2018
    • The_Wretched

      go away.

      • stevenj

        It’s a trumpbot

      • Bambino

        Blocked!

      • Lazycrockett

        So any strong independent black woman is always trans? how pathetic.

        • The_Wretched

          That seems to be the narrative. I guess it has the added benefit for trolls of being remarkably offensive in multiple directions.

        • JCF

          From the racist AND transphobic assholes who brought us “Michael Obama”.

    • TuuxKabin

      been thru your hand bag. i know where you live.

  • Tomcat

    Charlie, the end is near for your final curtain, get it? Go into the sunset and do pittance for your actions. You are now officially retired.

  • Marty Pavelka

    With all the harassment and abuse accusations occurring now, I wonder…why? Why now? Is it because the election of the current resident of the WH exposed all that is awful about our culture and society and people have just had enough. Enough. Enough of ALL of it.
    It does give one hope.

    • Tomcat

      I believe the hypocrisy of our president is the main reason this is coming to light now.

  • Joseph Miceli

    Frankly, while all these talk show hosts are getting canned, what is going on on the business side? Where are the women who are being harassed by major CEO’s? You can’t tell me anything will change until corporations are held as accountable as media. Frankly, while I laud and applaud these women speaking out, it does play into the Cheeto stained (and tiny) hands of a certain deplorable.

    • Treant

      I remain convinced that the dam breaking now is not coincidental. A push here, a prod there, a bit of a pickaxe on this part of the dam, a touch of explosives near the base, and suddenly everybody who’s ever been harassed is speaking out (women, at least; the stigma against men speaking out is now slightly greater, IMHO).

      • Joseph Miceli

        An important conversation to have to be sure…but deflection and distraction in the end.

  • Lazycrockett
  • Lakeview Bob

    This really saddens me. I always thought he was above reproach. What a disappointment.

  • JCF
  • TKW

    So once again, someone’s career is ruined by allegations. What happened to the due process of law? Charlie Rose, Al Franken…our legal system is being subverted by this witch hunt.

    • William

      Charlie admitted it once the accusations were published.

      • TKW

        I still have issues with this. This has been going on for sometime and I am sure their HR was fully aware of it. Only now when to goes public do they do anything.

        • Jerry Kott

          Corporate Reality is man made.

  • Too goddamned thin, Rose.

  • Cuberly Deux

    Ewwwwwww, an article pointing out that John Oliver’s show used to run a compilation of the most cringe inducing moments on CBS This Morning.

    http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/article/John-Oliver-has-been-pointing-out-the-awkward-12374663.php

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RrzxtmeIDM

  • Stubenville

    “One day you’re in, the next day you’re out.” Heidi Klum

  • Good. Once I heard what he’d actually done my question was, why hadn’t he been fired years earlier. A (female) producer had heard much of this and done nothing. Why was this allowed to go on for so long? No, you don’t walk around naked in front of people who work for you. Who does that? I’m glad he was fired and I hope he’s the first of many.

    • Jerry Kott

      I don’t believe the co-host of the morning show were not aware of the rumors. This will be interesting in how it plays out. We have tolerated the “Dirty Old Man” in our culture as long as he wasn’t dirty with us. I find that his comments were interesting in that he thought some of his victims were flirting with him and he made the next move.
      I don’t believe that Charlie Rose is going to play dead.

      • I have no reason to believe that Gayle King and other on air personalities were aware, but there was a producer who fired a couple of women who complained about Rose’s behavior and to the others just dismissed it as “Charlie being Charlie”. He was enabled. No, he’s not going away because it seems that in his mind (I’m getting this third hand) he thought the women were interested in him. This is the problem with the power dynamic. He may have thought they could walk away or spurn his advances without repercussions, but in fact women had heard that there were negative repercussions. Do 70 year old men really think that 20 something women are only interested in them for their looks? It’s usually either someone looking to sleep their way to the top or (more typically) someone who doesn’t think they have a choice if they want to keep their job. In either case, it’s not a situation that should be normative in any professional situation, but it often is.

  • neil_of_the_north

    What does it mean when someone experiences an unwanted sexual advance? I’ve had my share, and as long as whomever they are respects it when I say “no” then no problem at all. I’ve also been on the other side as well and found the situations embarrassing as such an advance was a miscalculation on my part. I know there are considerations of gender, power dynamics and such, but I wonder if all these men who are being tarred and feathered deserve it. An unwanted sexual advance by… itself is not and should not be a crime. Without more info such as a court determination it is hard to tell what really occurred, and yet allegations alone are having huge impacts on people’s lives.

    As much as I am for exposing abuses of power and sexual predation it seems an allegation alone is all that is often needed now to destroy a public figures career and reputation. That really disturbs me. Even if most of these men are guilty how do we determine if a crime was committed when the allegation is simply an unwanted sexual advance? The punishments seem to come swiftly without this and begs the question of what this trend will lead to next. The benefits of exposing sexual predators this way can also destroy people’s livelihoods without any crime being committed at all. Need to tread carefully here as I don’t think and unwanted sexual advance alone is reason for public shaming and the destruction of someone’s career.
    I get the sense that the more extreme the Right wing becomes the greater the propensity for extremism on the Left leaving middle ground and sober discussion on complex issues in the dust.

    • SFHarry

      Just because there are a lot of reports of unwanted sexual advances it doesn’t mean that there is a mixing of serious allegations and someone simply asking out a coworker. Each of the circumstances I have read are of really unacceptable behavior. There are just a lot now because women are feeling particularly empowered to report them. Whereas your feelings of worry that false claims or minor offenses can cause undue harm, it doesn’t seem to apply to any of the recently publicized cases.
      Do you remember any recent false claims that you have heard?

  • stanhope

    Charlie Rose….a licker…who knew? You have to know even with Niagra spray startch that noodle won’t stiffen lol

  • Grumpy Old Man

    Moore first noticed his wife when she was a teenager dancing in a HS show and remembered her 8 years later.

  • TO BLACKS

    So, a lib P USSY GRABBER bites the dust.