Howard Dean Dismisses Claims Of “Rigged” Primaries: DNC’s Agreement Was Standard Operating Procedure

The Hill reports:

Former Democratic National Committee (DNC) chair Howard Dean said Friday an agreement between Hillary Clinton and the DNC was “standard operating procedure.” Brazile said this week in an excerpt from her upcoming book that an agreement between Clinton and the DNC was “unethical” and harmed Sen. Bernie Sanders’s (I-Vt.) chances against Clinton in the Democratic primary.

More from NBC News:

The Democratic National Committee struck a deal with Hillary Clinton in 2015 that gave her campaign input on some party hiring and spending decisions, but required they be related only to preparations for the general election, according to a memo obtained by NBC News. It also left the door open for other candidates to make similar arrangements.

Specifically, the DNC agreed to hire a communications director from “one of two candidates previously identified as acceptable to HFA.” And while the DNC maintained “the authority to make the final decision” on senior staff in the communications, technology and research departments, the party organization said it would choose “between candidates acceptable to HFA.”

The memo stipulates the DNC had to hire a communications director by September 11, 2015, months before the first nominating contests in early 2016. However, the memo also made clear that the arrangement pertained to only the general election, not the primary season, and it left open the possibility that it would sign similar agreements with other candidates. The Sanders’ campaign later signed its own joint fundraising agreement with the DNC, but did not utilize it.

  • Gustav2

    LOCK HER UP FBI!

  • fuow

    The last time I felt THIS frustrated with my party was under Bill. What the fucking hell is wrong with us Democrats?
    Have we learned nothing?
    That was rhetorical, by the way.

    • Gustav2

      Who needs NYT’s Maggie Haberman when we have Donna Brazile?

      • fuow

        Who needs Republicans when we have us?

    • tbj5

      At least it proves that Dem party still has most of a conscience. They’re at least capable of feeling shame.

      Donna had an axe to grind, and some people were waiting to use her to do maximum damage by spreading her lies and half-truths right before the election and during Mueller time.

      • fuow

        Well, yeah – we’re very good a moral victories. That does nothing for my husband and children. I’ve fucking HAD IT with this loser mentality. Between the asswipes (some even here!) who think we just need to have a quiet meditation and a drum circle to the hate driven, mother fucking christers working to take away our rights, I’ve had it.

        • David L. Caster

          Understandable.

  • Boreal

    I trust Howard Dean far more than Donna Brazile or Bernie Sanders.

    • S1AMER

      You and me both. (And, after Warren’s statement yesterday, you can add her to my list of Democrats less trustworthy than Howard Dean.)

      • FAEN

        I bet she regrets that today. It was a bone headed statement.

        • S1AMER

          I hope you’re right, about the regret. We Democrats, whether prominent national politicians or local nobodies, need to pull together as we never had before.

          • David L. Caster

            I’m watching for the spin as Warren backs away from her remarks. If she admits the error plainly and works on smoothing out the bump I might be inclined to forgive and forget.

    • greenmanTN
      • Gerry Fisher

        Oy!

      • Bambino

        A few dozens of alligators might make the difference 😛

    • ElenorRigby

      Until Bernie is sent packing, I won’t give a dime to the democrats. Let them sink. He’s no better than trump.

      • gaycuckhubby

        Well. That’s a bit much. I’m not a fan but I would have voted for him with no hesitation if he was on a ballot against an orange alt-right white supremacist

        • HZ81

          I would have, too. I can’t stand math-challenged Mr. Magoo, but he would get my vote if it came to that.

        • Ninja0980

          I would have too.
          Which is something many on the purity left won’t ever do.

      • RaygunsGoZap

        Until Sanders (I-NH) is booted?

      • margaretpoa

        I voted for him in the primary because I thought the conversation needed to move left. If I had thought for an instant his fanatical fan base would have built up a personality cult around him, I never would have.Right now, I wouldn’t vote for him even if he did somehow become the nominee in 2020, preferring to move to Canada instead.

        • marshlc

          In Canada there is generally not a lot of sympathy toward ideological purity at the ballot box. Definitely you put your money and your voice and your work wherever your heart lies, but when it comes to voting, your vote goes to whoever has the best realistic chance to get/keep the goddam Conservatives out of power. We’re used to juggling more than two major parties, and are aware of the dangers of vote splitting.

          • margaretpoa

            My philosophy is that if someone agrees with me 95% of the time or even 75 percent of the time, that’s orders of magnitude better than somebody who agrees with me less than 1% of the time.

          • bkmn

            upvoting x 10000000000

          • Grumpy Old Man

            And I have no ‘single issue’ rejection policy (er, except choice, sigh – maybe I have a couple of issues).

          • margaretpoa

            Choice, equal rights for LGBTQ, and one or two others are non negotiable with me. Bigotry of any sort is a non starter.

        • FAEN

          Hmm-I’m not a huge Bernie fan but if it came down to him and Cheeto Bernie would get my full support.

          • danolgb

            The way I see it is Bernie could never get anything done, but at least it wouldn’t get worse.

          • FAEN

            Well women, immigrants, Muslims and every other minority group wouldn’t be under attack. Neither would the environment.

          • Scott Carpenter

            I’m not a huge Bernie fan but if it came down to him and Cheeto Bernie would get my begrudging support.

        • Akrontru

          It’s ironic that you mentioned a ‘fanatical fanbase.’

          • margaretpoa

            Not everybody who voted for Sanders in the primary was a Sanders zombie.

          • Akrontru

            I am, and was, A Sanders supporter who voted most reluctantly for Clinton. I’m not sure why you needed to make this statement, Margaretpa. I used ‘ironic’ in my comment because the commenters here on JMG are among the most virulent Clinton supporters on earth.

          • margaretpoa

            Spending as much time on Daily Kos as I do, I’ve learned to be as clear as possible. I also voted for Hillary Clinton in the general, though proudly instead of “most reluctantly”.

          • fuow

            No, actually were not. We’re just furious with the Bernie Bros who cost us the election.

          • Mark

            Sanders supporters did not cost the election

            Trump supporters did.

            You have no evidence for your assertions.

          • fuow

            Yeah, your version of reality isn’t working so well.

          • Mark

            Could you be more clear

          • Mark

            I see your reply above

            You have no evidence that Bernie cost anyone an election

            If you have evidence then show it.

            Otherwise you are speculating and apparently blaming others in the Democratic Party which is not a way to win elections is it?

          • cleos_mom

            among the most virulent Clinton supporters on earth.

            Not only ‘virulent’; we’re downright uppity. A hefty percentage of us aren’t even white.

          • Grumpy Old Man

            I see where you went.

        • Robert K Wright

          You mean like the Clinton Cult? Let’s not act as if there wasn’t one around her. Seems everyone forgets about the last time she ran, and how HER fanatical base spoke out and voted McCain. Funny that.

          • margaretpoa

            Actually the ideologues on both sides of this absurdly incessant, though long moot primary war are just as ridiculous as one another. All either side accomplishes in this relentless crusade is raising their own blood pressure but it doesn’t change history, it doesn’t change reality or my perception of it and it sure as hell isn’t going to get either side that long coveted and entirely fictitious abject apology from the other side. It. Is. Pointless. Except as an exercise self congratulation and/or flagellation of the other, it is without purpose.

            And I was a proud firebagger in 2008 and Joe.My.God had barely impinged upon my online awareness at the time. So I didn’t “forget” anything so much as I never experienced it.

          • Robert K Wright

            One needn’t have been on Joe.My.God to have awareness of the PUMA crowd, they were on every national broadcast, yet somehow Clinton fans forget their own recalcitrance against Obama. Somehow they believe we will forget their antics. I won’t. They were every bit as intractable as the Bernie supporters they now flog.

          • margaretpoa

            I’m fully aware of PUMAs. I used to date one. But not for long.

          • unsavedheathen

            No one here is trying to change history. We’re trying not to repeat it.

          • Miji

            In the end, I don’t think that ammounted to much of anything. She much more convincingly supported Obama in the general and brought along her supporters than Bernie ever did. Of course it helps that she was party minded and smart enough not to spend the primary painting Obama as corrupt or something else irredeemable. I think Sanders was too used to being totally independent and wasn’t shrewd enough to know there are some things you can’t take back. I say this as someone who was open to Sanders and would have whole heartedly supported him if he had won the nomination.

          • unsavedheathen

            “Of course it helps that she was party minded and smart enough not to spend the primary painting Obama as corrupt or something else irredeemable.”

            Yes. She left this task to her surrogates.

      • Tulle Christensen

        Good news for you, Bernie says he is going to run as an independent next time he runs for sonething

        • SinfulJosh

          That’s just for midterm congressional election. Meaning he had never saw himself as a Democrat. And his running on the democratic ticket was more opertunistic than anything else in my opinion

      • 2patricius2

        Bernie is not a Democrat. He affiliated with the Democratic Party so he could run in the Democratic primaries. He is still an Independent.

        • Mark

          So

          We Democrats want to vote for him

          • FAEN

            Not all Dems.

        • Robert K Wright

          That’s simply not true. You may dislike Sanders all you want, but what you say is simply a lie. The Democrats reached out to him and asked him to Caucasus with them when they needed him for a majority. He has been caucusing with the Democrats for decades now. Just think, you’re “purity” test would have kept us from having the ACA by two votes, Angus King and Sanders votes, they were and are after all not Democrats. Funny how he’s great when he’s “needed” but not when it’s inconvienient for you..

          • SinfulJosh

            The fact that Sanders has chosen to run for Congress as an independent again and there has been little to no efforts by Sanders in that whole “push for change” within the Democratic Party that that was espoused under the “Bernie or Bust” slogan/motto shows me all I need in regards to that.

            The fact that he was voted with Democrats on legislation he agrees with in some form doesn’t make him a Democrat. It makes him someone that doesn’t choose party over country.

      • FAEN

        I respectfully disagree with you on that point. I would MUCH rather have Bernie over Cheeto Voldemort any day.

      • Mark

        Good for you

        Who cares.

        Democratic Party is supposed to be democratic.

        Open to all.

        So there is no one to send Bernie packing but the voters.

        And I am a democrat and Bernie has my vote.

        • danolgb

          Bernie’s not a democrat. He says so himself. Why are we supposed to yield to him?

          • Robert K Wright

            Yes, let’s certainly alienate one more vote in the Senate, since we have just soooo many to spare. And I sure bet you weren’t bitching when he caucused with the Democrats and passed ACA.

          • danolgb

            It’s the least he could do after the DNC kept the field open in Vermont so he never really has to face a primary and for all the money they have funneled into his campaigns over the years. Yes. The DNC rigs an election: Vermont’s.

          • Robert K Wright

            You really need to educate yourself. Yeah, they are keeping him from being primaries, except they aren’t. Look up Svitavsky.

          • danolgb

            You really need to educate yourself. How it works is the DNC tells the challenger that they will not support them in the general election and that they are completely on their own. That someone is running in the Dem primary is not proof that the Dems will not clear the field for Bernie, who actually magically wins two primaries of parties he’s not even a member of.

          • Mark

            Do you are saying that when a person wins the democratic nomination will not get the support of the DNC.

            That the party leadership will not support who the party members voted for?

          • danolgb

            In Vermont, yes. That’s the deal the Dems made with Bernie.

          • Mark

            Ok.

            So I know of no deal the dnc made with the voters where they would not support the nominee the party voters choose.

            I seriously doubt that is what the memo means or that was the deal with Sanders.

            But if so, if Bernie Sanders runs and wins the primary and gets no support in the general against Trump. You are going to have it of party voters pissed.

            You see Bernie lost and campaigned for Hillary

            Just as when Hillary lost, she
            Campaigned for Obama.

          • danolgb

            I think you’re confused. We’re talking about the deal the DNC has with Bernie in Vermont to ensure he has no Dem competitor in the the Senate race. The DNC tells any primary challenger that they will support Bernie in the general, no matter what.

            Also, when Hillary lost to Obama, she took three days to come out with a forceful endorsement. Bernie took over a month and acted like he was being held hostage. There’s a huge difference between the two.

          • Mark

            I don’t see that, he took it to the convention and that was his right. Actually that is what his supporters wanted, like me, because we were upset at how the DNC leadership was treating out candidates.

            And to me he did not look like a hostage.

            During the General He did all he could to get Hillary elected.

            None of that made any difference in the general election.

            The states that Hillary lost in the general to Trump, where the same states where Hillary won hands down to Bernie.

            Hillary absolutely ran away with the Deep South in the primary. She lost big to Trump.

            But that is all history now. I hope the Democratic Party has learned to be more well Democratic. Any Bernie supporter I know of Sanders wanted Hillary to win. I wanted Hillary to win. No one wanted Trump

            Perhaps it’s best to learn from this and move on.

            And the reason I supported Bernie. I was not a strong supporter but,

            The DNC has been moving to the middle for the longest time to win elections and that’s ok. The trouble is the political center keeps moving right and right and right.

            And Hillary would of made a fine candidate, but yet again moving the ball to the right.

            So in a sense the republicans win one each election.

            If they are going to call Hillary a liberal, let’s show them a liberal.

          • danolgb

            If Bernie had cared about the final outcome, he would have conceded when it was clear he lost. Every other primary candidate on both sides managed to do that. Bernie’s ego was just too much in control. Whether it was his right or not, it was a dangerous move that hurt.

            And don’t bring up the red herring of 2008. That election went back and forth several times. Hillary was always ahead of Bernie after super Tuesday by an insurmountable margin. Everyone knew it except for apparently Bernie.

          • Mark

            Now you are projecting

            Sanders staying to the end had no effect on the election except maybe help it. His supporters wanted to be heard and they were.

            You can be angry all you want at that. Or anything else. You have no proof that made any difference andno proof that Sanders didn’t do everything he could after that to support Hillary.

            It’s a red herring to say that made any difference at all. Everyone I knew that supported Bernie did what they could to make sure Hillary won.

          • danolgb

            Yeah… that’s why they were attacking Hillary well after the convention. Bernie is an egotistical, do-nothing grifter. And he has a lot of idiot followers who he had so twisted that even he, with his half-assed attempts, couldn’t get them to vote for their better interest.

          • Mark

            His attempts were not hat ass.

            Who the hell runs for president who is not a egotistical person

            Who

            Everyone of them is egotistical

            Stop blaming Bernie for Hillaries failure to get the votes.

            I hope Bernie runs again.

            Stop acting like the party base needs to cow tail to the DNC

          • Mark

            BS. You have no proof of that.

            Hillary lost to Trump where she had the biggest margin of Victories, in the South.

            Again any Bernie supporters that I know was horrified at Trump.

            Stop blaming Bernie supporters and start blaming those Trump supporters.

            Over half of the white women voted for Trump, and man who grabs pussies. And they did that because of Sanders. They stayed away from the pussy grabbing sexist because of Sanders?

            Majority of white woman voted for Trump.

            Figure that one out.

          • Robert K Wright

            Yeah, having your name written in is such a horrible thing. That means his voters wanted him and not anyone else. He won primaries he wasn’t even involved in because his state likes him. Tough concept to wrap your brain around, I know. Do you even understand the concept of a write in?

          • danolgb

            Hah! You are really stretching. He’s didn’t run as a write-in. His name is on the primary ballot. He does dual filings. Now if that isn’t shady, I don’t know what is.

            https://vtdigger.org/2012/06/13/sanders-papers-filed-peyton-running-for-governor/#.Wf4hjFtSxac

          • Robert K Wright

            The historical record shows he ran as an independent, but he also won the democratic primary by write in. Now, you may be right in one, or two of his many elections, but that doesn’t make you right over all.

          • danolgb

            You may want to actually read the link I provided. He’s on the ballot. Thanks for playing. He’s only had two elections as Senator. That’s how he’s done it both times and that’s how he keeps from having a Dem challenger in his run for Senate.

          • Robert K Wright

            It’s all fine and good that you suddenly changed the conversation from his past elections to suddenly being just his senatorial campaigns. You win. I can’t win when you keep changing the parameters of the discussion. And, yeah, sometimes the DNC doesn’t support their candidate, it doesn’t mean they are for the other guy, it means they know their candidate won’t win. We saw this recently in a number of special elections. But you keep talking, and keep,changing the terms of your discussions.

          • danolgb

            Oh my god.. I did not “just suddenly change” the deal he struck was always for his Senate runs. Sorry you needed that spelled out for you.

          • Robert K Wright

            Nope, I confused the sentence in your first post as to include his previous runs that you say the dems poured money into, with your caveat on Senate. It seemed, to me, that you were including all his elections. I apologize. I misunderstood your point. Which is why I was talking about his winning primaries with write ins. A couple of his house runs were exactly that. He won by write in, and once I think he even declined that nomination to run as an independent. But the Democratic Party can’t afford to alienate all the Sanders supporters. We will find it difficult to win if we do. Personally I think we went too far to the right under Bill Clinton, yes it won elections but our party lurched right. Just a look,at the ACA proves that. It was the old dusted off Dole Plan. We need to move left and do so now. The republicans lurched even further right and they seem to be priming the country for a true progressive liberal. Single payer could come about because of them, and if our party embraces its stated values.

          • danolgb

            It’s SOP for him to decline the nominations. He really only runs as a Dem for more airtime and to dissuade others from competing against him. He actually was named nominee for 2 parties in 2012. If you think people are just writing in his name spontaneously, you’re naive.
            As for the Sanders supporters, they couldn’t even be bothered to vote for Sanders. I’m not sure they’re all that important and they spend most of their time attacking anyone who might happen to have a shot at 2020 because they want to keep it clear for him… 2018 be damned.

          • Robert K Wright

            I dunno, his supporters have certainly influenced a lot of the Democrats who look good in 2020, so….Kamala Harris has leaned further his direction than not, and she looks like a possibility in 2020. I’d vote for her. I voted for her here in California as Attorney General, and as our Senator in the last election. But she’s been influenced by the far left progressives and Sanders so, I’ll have to trust there is a decent amount of influence that people really aren’t talking about. And if we are to be honest, it seems both Clintons backers and Sanders backers spend an inordinate amount of time slapping at each other. Sanders supporters are merely the modern equivalent of the PUMAS. Seems to me the Clinton supporters ought to remember their own time on the outs. But people forget what it was actually like and try to pretend there weren’t issues that they did the same thing with.

          • Robert K Wright

            Also, you might want to actually look at the historical record of Sanders various runs for office, your insinuation that he didn’t face any primaries from democrats is complete and utter bullshit. You do know that the internet is full of facts, right? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_Bernie_Sanders

          • danolgb

            We’re talking about his Senate runs which he has gained a lot of financial support from the Dems for, including money from Hillary’s own PAC. Sure, there were some token nobody’s in there, but why is an independent (small “i”) even running in the Dem Primary? He does that because of the deal he’s made with the Dems so he can then run unchallenged by a Dem in the primary.

          • Robert K Wright

            Oh, now I see, you’re changing the terms of the discussion from his elections to his “Senate” elections. Yeah, that’s how you get a point…..

          • Mark

            You don’t have to do a thing

            But the Democratic Party should let the voters decide.

          • danolgb

            They did. The voters chose Hillary by 4 million more votes than him.

          • Mark

            I don’t think it was as fair an open as you imply.

            Hillary probably would still of won. But their would be a lot less angry people who felt the party leadership put their hands on the scale.

            Then Hillary looses the election and sort of blames Sanders, for what?

          • danolgb

            Because Sanders stayed in the race and started attacking the process, causing dolts to believe she didn’t win fairly. It also meant that she couldn’t start the fight for the general election as early as needed and that money Brazile talks about couldn’t be released to the states for the general election until Bernie conceded or the primaries were over. He had lost as early as March and should have conceded when it was clear Trump was the GOP nominee.

          • Mark

            My view of that time was a bit different.

            Never the less the election was hers to win or loose. I don’t think any of that made a difference.

            Bernie put his full support behind Hillary after the primary.

            Perhaps you should blame Wassermann for being so blantanly unfair.

            You keep talking of Bernie, it’s the voters that are insulted. The voters who are upset. All that could of been avoided if Wasserman let the process play out naturally.

            Remember how few debates were scheduled? As just one example. Why? Of course

          • danolgb

            How exactly did Wassermann rig the race?

            Ughh the debate schedule canard. Guess what, every other primary has started out with around 6 and then more are added throughout the cycle. That wasn’t rigging. And even so, it’s not like people had no idea who Bernie was and and what he stood for. He had one speech. We had it memorized.

            You guys contradict yourselves when you think it’s the party’s responsibility to make sure the candidate gets airtime. It’s the candidate’s responsibility.

            Bernie managed to have huge rallies. They were constantly broadcast. We rejected him. He oversimplifies the problems and offered no realistic solutions. He also didn’t do any groundwork to get his supporters to the actual polls. And when he failed, he blamed the processes that have been in place for decades and demanded they be changed to suit him.

          • Mark

            Nope the dnc has the finger on the scale. And you are right, Hillary probably would of won without that support.

            I don’t deny that Sanders lack of support in the minority community domed him.

            Bernie lost, he probably would of lost anyway. It wasn’t exactly fair.

            Yes Wasserman said if she wanted to rig the election she could of done a better job.

            But the scales were tipped against him.

          • danolgb

            Again, specifically?how. What specific actions can you point to? None. Because there weren’t any. The emails that were written were in response to Bernie’s attack on the party in May and June. They weren’t proof of rigging at all. And in fact, Brazille even states in her book that she went department by department and found no proof of anyone doing anything that disadvantaged Bernie.

          • Mark

            So since I admit that Sanders would of propably lost anyway.

            I think it’s time people admit that Hillary lost because of Hillary. Maybe the FBI director shares some blame.

            Not Sanders and not Sanders supporters

          • danolgb

            Hillary lost for many reasons, racism one of them. But also Trump picked up every personal attack Sanders hurled. And enough people believed the spin and lies, as you still do, that the primary was somehow magically rigged that many of them sat out or voted for idiots like Jill Stein, Gary Johnson, or Trump himself.

          • Mark

            Trump would of used those same attacks anyway. Bernie was the one that said we are sick and tired of your emails.

            There was nothing that Sanders did that could reasonably be said to have done anything to Hillary in the election.

            She already had all that baggage well before Sanders.

            And if Bernie won, should he say that Trump just picked up on the attacks that Hillary had against him and blame Hillary?

            How about all the attacks Yrump got. How do you run a campaign?

            No, none of that was anything more than a local event. It had no bearing.

            If Sanders didn’t run at all, I think you would of had the same outcome.

            And you can’t blame Sanders for the third party candidates. It’s the voters that stayed home and that had nothing to do with Sanders.

          • Mark

            Hillary was damaged goods by all those years of attack before the primary.

            The Clinton’s were under constant attack. That is the baggage.

            Sanders did nothing to that. Nothing that made a difference.

            It was race, it was the outsider. It was looking for a change. It was Hillary and her ‘basket of deplorables’. It was not listening to her Husband and going into rural white America and asking for the votes.

          • Stephen Elliot Phillips

            I said it to the sanders-nistas back then. WAY before the general election. That sanders was making it such that clinton would limp wounded across the finish line.
            This shows me one of 2 things (or both).
            Sanders either figured hillary would beat trump and he was going to extract his pound of flesh from the dems anyway.
            OR sanders didnt care if trump won cause bernies too fucking out of it. And didnt realize what a disasterous event it would be for this country

          • danolgb

            Bernie knew exactly what he was doing. It’s the same thing the Young Turks do.. they’re the contrarians and get a lot of money when they get to be the opposition.

      • SFHarry

        Please explain, because as I see it Bernie is for taxing the richest Americans so that society is more balanced. Trump is for pushing that same money into the hands of the rich. Bernie votes with Democrats on social issues while Trump does what he can against us. There are clear distinct differences on how they would affect the country, policy and the view of the presidency. Your statement seems like a child stamping their feet.

      • If the 2020 election is between Bernie and Trump, my vote is going to Bernie..

        • cleos_mom

          Mine too.

          But that’s not saying much.

    • Snarkaholic

      And Bernout is planning to run for prez AGAIN in 2020.

      • Boreal

        and if he loses his adherents will take their ball and go home to pout and then troll us for another 4 year trump term.

        • FAEN

          According to Rand ‘we hate civil rights’ Paul, Cheeto may not run in 2020.

          • Stephen Elliot Phillips

            He never wanted to be president. He just liked the idea of all the attention and money he would get if he ran. Cheeto hasnt worked this fucking hard in his entire life. And he still doesnt work that hard now.

          • Chris Gardner

            He’s probably suffering muscle spasms from all the tweeting!

          • FAEN

            He had ‘Trump Tv’ all ready to roll out until those dumb asses voted for him and the other dumb asses didn’t vote handing the WH to the Nazi 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

      • TrueWords

        Bernie should simply STAY away…

        • Mark

          Why?

          • TrueWords

            I am tired of all ass white men running the government here in America where there is much more diversity and youth than can ever be accounted for in Congress where the average age is:

            The Senate has 54 Republicans, 44 Democrats, and 2 Independents, who both caucus with the Democrats. The average age of Members of the House at the beginning of the 114th Congress was 57.0 years; of Senators, 61.0 years.

          • Mark

            You can have what ever criteria you want.

            Age, sex and skin color if that is what you want.

            The ideas is what I am after.

            Bernie would be the first Jewish President.

          • TrueWords

            Not enough for me…I don’t more choices I want nicer things…

            I do not want an 80 year old being President…

          • Mark

            Sure that is your choice

            Support anyone you want.

          • Stephen Elliot Phillips

            I think politicians should retire like everyday folks do. Retirement at 70. New blood is always more dynamic (except for jared kushner)
            And im NOT being ageist. These are wealthy people. They can do something else with the rest of their lives after they leave office…..

          • TrueWords

            DAMN STRAIGHT…the younger people are not hung up like these old farts on so many things

          • There are 52 Republicans, 46 Democrats and 2 Independents that caucus with the Democrats in the 2017 Senate. This may change if Sen. Robert Menendez is on trial for corruption, and if convicted will resign his Senate Seat, and Gov. Chris Christie most likely will appoint a Republican to fill the seat..

            The Dems were suppose to pick even more seats in 2016, but the voter turnout was one of big reasons. They should had picked up seats in WI, PA and maybe NC if they played their cards right, which they did not..

      • 2patricius2

        He’s 76 now. Some people in their late seventies still have the energy and fire. But that’s a stretch for a lot of people.

        • Snarkaholic

          It’s not his age that bothers me…

          • Stephen Elliot Phillips

            Sanders is about 40% of why we lost this last election. He wouldnt fucking conceed. He has a lot of enemies that he frankly doesnt care to placate. I dont think he would get the dem nomination. Bet he does run as an independent. Which of course is even worse than if he ran as a dem.
            Narcissist….

      • Gary Ortega

        Thank Goddess

      • gothambear

        what happened to his wife being indicted for financial fraud? of course in this country that might be an asset to a candidate…

    • TrueWords
    • FAEN

      Yep! I wish he was in charge of the DNC again. When he was in charge we took back the House and the WH if I’m not mistaken.

      He got the Dems to fight in ALL 50 states and it paid off. Wasserman-Shultz was an unmitigated disaster.

      • Mark

        I want to greatly reduce or eliminate the role of the super delegates

        • FAEN

          Would you mind explaining why. Genuinely curious.

          • Mark

            As can be seen from these discussions, the vile beliefs that Sanders and or his voters caused Clinton to loose the election.

            While the DNC certainly put their weight on the scale for Clinton, it had no real effect on the outcome but to give a legitimate excuse to cry foul for the Sanders supporters.

            If things were more even handed, Clinton would of won without all those bad feelings.

            In fact when I was first thinking who I should support, it was the news coverage of the superdelegates. Clinton already had a lead before anyone really voted. This through me into the Sanders camp. Why is the Democratic Party telling me how to vote.

            I had never seen super delegates used in this fashion. In basically two person race, all for one candidate.

            I always thought of super delegates as to breaking ties when no candidate has reached the number.

            The idea that Sanders could win the majority of pledge delegates and still loose angers me. What, it’s like 15 percent.

            This is wholly unfair. As if the DNC doesn’t already have sway, 15 percent of the votes. And it was billed as allowing ordinary members to become delegates, really.

            Several suggestions.

            Superdelegates should not pledge support till after the state they are in votes.

            A system were superdelegates are first pledged, those that represent voting districts and only get freed up after the 1st convention vote, and before pledged delegates.

            Reduce by half the number of superdelegates. It’s not a status symbol or a reward.

            If not the above, then reduce the value of the superdelegates by 50 percent.

            And since I am guessing that you are a party insider.

            Please Please stop blaming Sanders for Trump’s win. Hillary Clinton already had enough baggage before the primary. No one is anointed the nominee. And while Sanders may of held on to long in conceding, partly due to anger of his supporters and partly to the DNC favoritism. This had no real effect on the general election.

            Donald Trump won, focus on why he won and stop blaming Sanders and the people who voted for him.

            And remember the states that Hillary Clinton lost to Trump that she should of won. Was the same ones the Clinton beat Sanders in the primary. The ones were Sanders won big, are the ones Clinton got.

          • FAEN

            You don’t think Sanders voters who protest voted either by voting for Trump or other candidates aka voting for Trump hold no responsibility for Clinton’s loss?

          • Mark

            I don’t see any real evidence of that making a difference

            The real problem seems to have been the minority vote. And the polls that showed Hillary ahead.

            If you can show evidence I might change my mind. To me a this is conjecture.

            And if you want all voters to come out it’s best to make the election fair.

            Look at this link

            http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=20289

            The first comment in the comments threads is an eye opener.

          • Mark

            I don’t see how Clinton did not destroy Trump.

            I don’t see how the majority of white woman women vote for trump.

            I don’t see Bernie voters voting for that piece of trash.

            Besides every election year. People of both parties stay out if they don’t like the candidates, regardless of what the candidates did. Evidence that this was significantly hire this year.

          • Mark

            I think it was her high negatives from years of attack. Clinton fatigue and poor campaign strategy.

            Bill Clinton was right. Go into the poor white areas and ask for their votes.

            Anybody can point to anything.

            Trump was being attacked by many people in the Republican Party and many republicans stayed home.

            Yet

    • justmeeeee

      Of course you do, honey…Hiil-bots never say die!

    • Robert K Wright

      How much do you trust the phrase “If so….”. Because that tells me that Dean hasn’t seen the agreement, and that he isn’t sure. Otherwise there would be no couching via “If so….”

      • David L. Caster

        He’s seen it. The question isn’t whether he has read it but how it was interpreted and implemented.

        • Robert K Wright

          Yeah, the question IS if he’s read it, because his comment insinuates that he has, and says she’s basically mistaken. If he’s offering an opinion on the matter he should have some actual working knowledge of the document on hand. I was a huge Dean supporter, and I find it funny that so many of his other supporters are failing to remember the backlash against them for supporting him. Funny how selective the outrage is.

      • Boreal

        Thanks for trolling. I see your account, just created in August has all of 52 comments, sure sign of a troll. Bye Miss Felicia.

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/dcb9a8e40eced8600287ffd68f1ab07efb21c59c6c22d303dfc19c09f13bc103.gif

        • Robert K Wright

          I’ve been on joe my god for years, just because my other login got its info hacked and I changed them doesn’t mean I’m a troll. It’s fucking idiots like you who seem to think every opinion challenging theirs is from a troll. You must see a lot of trolls then. Your “shut down” of any opinion you don’t like sure sounds like Trumps fans. You ain’t no better missy.

    • gothambear

      we need him back at the DNC, not that milquetoast Tom Perez

  • S1AMER

    I had always regarded Donna Brazile to be a smart woman and a good Democrat. Now, I doubt both.

    Meanwhile, will/can Democrats get their shit together to fight elections next year to gain strength (even take over) many state and U.S. House and Senate races? To resoundingly win the White House in 2020?

    Or not?

    • Jmdintpa

      not , dems dont vote in numbers right now without obama on the ticket to overide the white nationalist vote. combine that with gerrymandering, cheating etc and therefore repubs win more seats in 2018, see it as a mandate, shove through legislation that takes us back decades, trump is re-elected and thats when the religious crackdown and suspension of the constitution begins. this isnt going to be resolved at the voting booth.

  • j.martindale

    Brazile is not the brightest bulb. Her accusations look more and more like an attempt to restore her to the position she had before she was exposed for improper behavior in the debates by turning on Clinton, and make a buzz shilling her new book. This is JUST the sort of infighting the Dems do not need before the ’18 elections. It is all pointless, anyway. Clinton clearly had the nomination in the bag by the time this agreement came up, considering she had an enormous advantage in the big prmary state of California, and Sanders had absolutely NO route to the nomination once those primary votes were counted. Warren has also shown herself to be politically inept in this affair, wasting political capital by cozying up to the far left wing. She did no one any favors by adding her two cents to the internecine squabble. I will be looking elsewhere for a candidate for President in a few years.

  • Pluto Animus

    Finally, some pushback.

    This idiotic story is infuriating. Fuck you, Donna Brazile. Way to write Trump’s talking points.

    • Bambino

      She is writing for her own bank account.

    • HZ81

      Liz Warren should apologize, too. Won’t happen, but a boy can dream.

      • I’m done with Warren too.

        • HZ81

          I concur. What a disappointment. Her joining the “let’s ditch identity politics” movement is offensive enough. Her reluctance to admit wrong, apparently, is also worrying.

    • Buford

      Same to the idiotic US media who run a slanderous ‘allegation’ story for the sake of the ratings without actually determining if the facts support the allegation… especially if/when the subject is a Clinton.

      It’s pathological.

  • Leo

    She’s getting interviewed on The View Tuesday, we’ll see what she says.

    Cue the JMG flame war on this thread for the next three days.

    The usual will claim this as credit if Gillespie wins. Glad to hear this pushback.

    I’m tired.

  • Michael R

    OK , back to BENGHAZI and EMAILS everyone .

    ( although since Niger you hear a lot less about
    Benghazi from the Trump crowd for some reason )

  • DreadPikathulhu

    Too late. The damage has been done. The media have their false equivalence narrative, the GOP and Trump has their cudgel to continue to beat Hilllary with cries of “Crooked Hillary” and “Lock her up!”, Sanders supporters can continue to sulk and cry “Bernie woulda won!”, and the majority of Clinton voters continue to be forgotten by the media.

  • HZ81

    Bernie diehards still refuse to accept he got fucking beat. This NBC story allegedly backs up all of their claims that our poor High Sparrow got screwed.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/memo-reveals-details-hillary-clinton-dnc-deal-n817411

    Um, sure. Where’s my coffee—and my rifle? (Thank you, Helen Sinclair)

    • SoCalGal20

      How many of the diehards are bots and Russian trolls/plants, that’s what I REALLY want to know.

      • HZ81

        Me, too. Twitter is just bursting at the seams with them. Luckily, it’s easier to tell them their by their 12 followers and 20 tweets, but still. Nonstop nonsense.

      • greenmanTN

        And how many of the “Bernie or busters”? Did they really exist beyond a few outliers?

        • Jerry Kott

          They tried to disrupt the sanity here on JMG. There parents made them move out of their basements. So they are only left to drink the Sour Grape flavor Kool-Aid until their testicles drop.

        • stuckinthewoods

          I never believed there was a significant number of “Bernie or Bust” actual voters in real life.

      • Karl Dubhe

        I bet on all of them.

        Anyone who was loyal to western civilization would have voted for Hillary. (I used to like bernie, but at this point I’d rather never hear from him again either.)

        • Tulle Christensen

          I feel exactly the same

    • Mark

      And Hillary still blames him for loosing the election

      • HZ81

        Yes, that’s it. Entirely. Thank you for enlightening me.

  • Bluto

    Donna threw the DNC under the bus at a time when the country has fallen into a cold civil war & unanswered meddling by a hostile foreign government – to generate books sales for personal gain. She has proven to be no better than trump himself.

    • gaycuckhubby

      I think she probably blames Clinton for getting fired from CNN

      • Joe in PA

        So I wonder if she’ll address that issue in the book.

      • Jerry Kott

        If she wasn’t the pariah before, she is now.

      • SoCalGal20

        Only one Donna has to blame for that is Donna. But why suck it up when she can throw the entire party under the bus?

        Dem candidates will win and be successful in spite of the DNC, not because of it (at least as it exists right now).

        • GayOldLady

          According to Donna she was on the Board of Directors of the DNC during the time DWS ran it into the ground, but she says she had no idea that the Party was in such a dire financial situation. Why Not? I said 2 days ago that this looks like a bunch of CYA to me. I think we’ll find out at some point and time that Officers drained the DNC dry. We know they kept consultants on board and were staffed at election levels for the entire span between 2012 and 2016. Why? Somethings rotten here and I want to know what. *Correction: Brazile didn’t say she was on the BOD, she stated in the Politico Article that she was an Officer of the DNC.

          • AJayne

            Thank you. That has been my question all along. The board must sign off on expenditures, budgets, financial reconciliations, etc. They jointly hold responsibility for all of that for a reason – and it is not so one of them can blame one other of them – so how responsibly did Donna behave while tasked with performing oversight?

          • GayOldLady

            I haven’t been able to find anything that states her position on the board, but in the Politico article she describes herself in this way. “I am an officer of the party and they’ve been telling us everything is fine and they were raising money with no problems.” There’s no way, if she was an “officer” of the party that any contract would have been entered into without party Officers knowing about it. There’s also no way DWS mismanagement could have sucked the Party dry without an “officer of the party” knowing it or at least knowing that it was being mismanaged. I’m thinking a lot of the “officers” were getting hefty salaries and weren’t really in to the day-to-day operation of the DNC. It’s sad that Brazile decided to make what is likely her last stand on this hill.

          • She was on the board but didn’t know what the financials were? She’s either lying or incompetent. Either way…done with her.

          • SoCalGal20

            Oh I wouldn’t be a bit surprised. Personally, I have to say that aside from having an organized (in the general sense) body to run the party convention and providing resources and funding for things like GOTV drives, I am much more liking a grassroots and decentralized party structure that’s more responsive to the local needs and issues like the Indivisible movement and flippable.org.

        • danolgb

          Right? I’ve never seen any proof that HRC or anyone with the campaign solicited her “help”. (Seriously, informing the campaign that someone in Flint was going to ask a question about Flint’s water? Big coup!)

      • FAEN

        I think it’s deeper than that. I think she’s still holds the Clinton’s responsible for Gore’s loss in 2000.

    • Paula

      Dear Donna,
      Just a little note to thank you for essentially reassuring the re-election of Donald Trump in 2020.

      Thanks
      The Alt Right!

      P.S. Your republican card is in the mail.

  • gaycuckhubby

    Thanks Joe for the follow up!

    I wonder if in 6 months most voters will remember the correction or just run with the narrative that Hillary cheated?

    • Gustav2

      No one believes the correction now in comments sections.

      • Joe in PA

        Don’t say NO one. But yeah.

  • Rebecca Gardner
    • gaycuckhubby

      Yes!

      • Guy z

        Your name made me clutch my pearls…in shock or intrigue? The audience wants to know 🙂

        • gaycuckhubby

          😉

        • Jessica

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        • Janet

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    • JCF

      Virginia voters: remember this on, say, THIS FREAKING TUESDAY????

    • fuow

      Absofuckinglutely right.

    • David L. Caster

      1×10**9 upvotes.

    • How about let’s start with putting an actual progressive on the ticket – Dems keep trying to get the red vote with moderates/centrists like Clinton and it’s not gonna work. They need to move towards their liberal base if they want to win. Will that person be perfect? No. But they should not have ties to Wall Street and should not be in bed with lobbyists. That’s a good start.

  • Gerry Fisher

    Thank you, Howard. Man, the DNC went to crap after you left the helm.

    • gaycuckhubby

      Yep

    • Gerry Fisher

      I mean, it wasn’t perfect, but he had it moving in the right direction with a 50-state strategy.

      • Boreal

        If we don’t run in every race, we can’t win.

        • I’m not sure we have to work that hard in every race. Some really aren’t winnable, BUT there were over a dozen Congressional districts last year where Hillary won but Democrats didn’t even run a candidate. Those were winnable. WTF?

          • marshlc

            Yes, you don’t have to pour big money into an unwinnable race, but at least have somebody there to show the colours.

    • FAEN

      YES!

    • UrsusArctos 🐻

      He left at the point of the Incumbent/Corporatist/Clintonista sword. ANYONE with ability was sidelined after his tenure because they might interfere with their long range plans an dactually vote for populist policies rather than “evolving” to a soft-right position from what would have been a hard right GOP in position in the 60s/70s. /rant

  • Bambino

    In any other time this is just a minor squabble within a party. In the era of Russian controlled America political narrative, the left, liberals, centrist and the sane should rise above this and focus on the big picture. The leaky roof in the Dem’s house is minor compare to the approaching tsunami.

  • margaretpoa

    SOP for the 169 years of the DNC’s history but now it’s a huge emergency because it affected St. Bernie the First. And I was a Sanders voter in the primary.
    This is the problem: Brazile has always been in business for herself. Just like Rahm Emanuel, Lanny Davis, Mark Penn, et al, she has always been more interested in what she can get out of the party than what she can do to help.

    I want to fight Republicans in 2018, not other Democrats in 2016!

  • Jmdintpa

    its ashamed the dems will be the party that goes the way of the wigs … not the republicans like we were all led to believe. many people chose to sit home or vote for some third party loser because they just have such “high standards” they couldnt vote for clinton. many stayed home since obama wasnt on the ticket. laughable and disgusting. i was not a clinton fan but i sure as hell knew what had to be done to try and keep trump from the helm. now we have allowed fascist to be elected, the dems are falling apart, the county will elect more republicans and a religious oligarchy like Russia is our future. get used to it, plan for it, and arm yourself. these people are not going to be taken out at the ballot box. if we want trump and his white nationalist gone we just may have to go and do it ourselves.

  • Ragnar Lothbrok
    • FAEN

      Hey matey-good to see you.

      • Ragnar Lothbrok

        hi! my lttrs on my kyboarg quit, kant typ …sab!

    • JCF

      Perfect.

  • Boreal

    Had a discussion with a friend about this yesterday who claimed dems were unfair to Bernie. I pointed out that the Dems let Bernie run for their nomination without being a dem yet repigs would never ever let an non repig run for their nomination. My friend was silent for a few minutes and then admitted he had never thought of this before.

    • Tomcat

      I have no doubt that IF you used those exact words you lost the argument due to lowering yourself to their level.

      • Boreal

        What the fuck are you talking about?

        • I think he’s upset you called repugnicans repigs.

          • Boreal

            That’s too fucking bad, repigs are goatfucking morons.

          • Silver Badger

            You forgot evil. repigs are evil to boot.

          • Lars Littlefield

            . . . and they can’t dance.

          • Scott Carpenter

            … or bathe, so they smell bad. And they have bad teeth and bad breath.

          • cleos_mom

            And they won’t kill bugs for you.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZGZI4sIvU8

    • GayOldLady

      Did your friend spend all of 2016 in the bathroom? How did he miss that? Or is he one of those guys who doesn’t use deductive powers often?

      • Boreal

        No. He is pretty progressive and he supported Bernie but voted for Hillary. It just never crossed his mind. Many people are unaware that Bernie is not a democrat.

  • SoCalGal20

    I’m a Dem supporter through and through but Jesus Fucking Christ, can the DNC either fold up shop or get a spine and hire competent people, not just cronies and party hacks to run the national party who will throw Dems under the bus to sell a fucking book or whatever (would be nice for the state parties too but gotta start somewhere)?

    I don’t blame big donors for not wanting to give money to the DNC right now. There should be ads all over tv about what a shitshow the GOP is, how they StILL want to take healthcare away, how awful their tax bill is. And conversely ads that show what Dems would do if people voted for them. But no. Only ads on tv are Tom Steyer telling us Trump needs to be impeached (DUH) and 45Committee telling us how awesome GOP tax cuts are going to be (aired on MSNBC, no less). And crickets from the DNC about Donna’s lies or anything else.

    • worstcultever

      Dems won’t even take their own side in an argument. Even when the argument concerns the greatest threat to our country in its entire history. God DAMN are we fucked.

      • Lars Littlefield

        Only if you vote Republican, dear.

    • UrsusArctos 🐻

      ThE DNC has long been an “Incumbency Protection Racket”, going back to Bill’s “Blue Dog” years.

    • Treant

      Keep in mind, the head of the DNC is a crap position (much like the head of the RNC) and they tend to get washed-up politicians. Not necessarily incompetent ones, just past their prime and not going to run for much.

      It’s not a fun job and I seriously doubt anybody actually accepts it with any great measure of joy.

  • Tomcat

    They stopped this lie but not before Joe Scarborough beat Hillary half to death Friday for this. He is such a smuck.

  • Silver Badger

    How’s everyone surviving the Antifa Revolution? Here in Colorado it evidently slept in. Maybe it’ll start after brunch.

    • Boreal
      • margaretpoa

        Yeah, I don’t get that. How can anybody reasonably say “antifascist = bad”? Heck, it’s even a spellchecker approved word.

        • Boreal

          It’s like the word liberal. Whenever someone calls me that I laugh and tell them ‘I own it and am a proud liberal. What else do you have?’

          • Silver Badger

            I tell people I left the Democratic Party because they weren’t liberal enough.

          • margaretpoa

            I usually say “Likely more liberal than anyone you’ve ever met”.

          • Boreal

            I tell them I’m practically a communist.

          • Treant

            I lean more toward a combination of capitalism and socialism.

            But not Bernie’s socialism, the kind that actually gets shit done occasionally, like the Nordic nations.

          • Joe in PA

            I kind of like “elite” myself. 🙂

          • Boreal

            ^librul elitist^

          • Joe in PA

            But then it usually digresses to “libtard”.

            I’m good with that too. 🙂

          • Lars Littlefield

            West Coast latte sipping liberal elitist, to be more specific.

          • Boreal

            I’m an East Coaster latte sipping liberal elitist.

          • canoebum

            The great Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan said, “the root word of Liberal is liberty.” So you’re on solid ground, no doubt. He also said, “The liberal left can be as rigid and destructive as any force in American life.” Some Democratic voters should learn that “Centrist” is not a dirty word.

          • Scott Carpenter

            Somewhere else I posted a comment that incrementalism is better than what we have, and two of the other people posting completely lost their shit. I could see the foaming spittle they sprayed on *my* screen, they probably ruined their own.
            What is it with these people?

          • canoebum

            Festina lente just won’t cut it with them. They want it all and right now.

        • Lars Littlefield

          I think it sounds too much like Antietam – a civil war battle about which I venture 90% of today’s US Citizens have no clue.

          • Silver Badger

            The Battle of Antietam /ænˈtiːtəm/, also known as the Battle of Sharpsburg, particularly in the Southern United States, was fought on September 17, 1862, near Sharpsburg, Maryland and Antietam Creek as part of the Maryland Campaign. It was the first field army–level engagement in the Eastern Theater of the American Civil War to take place on Union soil and is the bloodiest single-day battle in American history, with a combined tally of 22,717 dead, wounded, or missing.[8]

      • Silver Badger

        I never said it was a BAD thing. I was just wondering how people were doing. You don’t suppose it was another right wing lie do you?

        • PickyPecker

          I’ve been rioting for days…and no one has noticed.

          • Tulle Christensen

            I wasn’t sure because I did get one email saying the Nov 4 riots should start on Oct 31, but I was not sure if it was a fake and decided to wait to riot until today

      • Karl Dubhe

        1941? What took you so long?
        /kidding

      • Joe in PA

        Be careful with the lesbian porn…@GayOldLady:disqus is in the house…and you know how she gets. 🙂

        Teasing GOL!

      • Bambino
        • JCF

          Mmmm, side-boob… [I say, as the only one here who noticed that! ;-/ ]

          • lymis

            There were women in that clip? Go figure.

    • Bambino

      It’s a revolutionary from within per Gloria Steinem.

      • Silver Badger

        So, no EMP’s then?

    • Tulle Christensen

      Wait my Soros email said to wait until after lunch to start rioting. shehs, am I late?

      • Silver Badger

        It IS Saturday. One needs one’s rest before rioting.

        • And a good brunch. You know us liberals can’t do much without our weird ethnic meals.

          • Boreal

            and my latte.

          • olandp

            You mean your semen la-tae.

          • Tulle Christensen

            well what would a latte be without semen?

      • Paula

        I’m through with him. I voted Clinton and never did receive my check in the mail.

    • Treant

      Oh, I thought that was the sound of Saturday lawnmowers.

      (Unusual enough in November, but very well).

  • narutomania

    I just do not see how these agreements between the Clinton Campaign and the DNC amount to the primary being “rigged”. Am I missing something?

    Clinton received more votes than Sanders in each state’s primary. That is the bottom line. Each candidate was free to travel and speak and stump and campaign and kiss babies and blah blah blah. And after all was said and done, Hillary came away with more primary votes.

    So, unless the RESULTS in each state’s primary were falsified, then how could anyone claim that the primary itself was “rigged”?

    • SoCalGal20

      The only thing you’re missing is Donna Brazile’s bitterness and willingness to throw the DNC and Dem candidates under the bus for her piece of the pie.

      • Joe in PA

        ^^^^^^^

    • Treant

      Yes, but you’re smart and paying attention.

  • Gustav2

    OT: Cops: Man pulls gun in Ohio after failing to get McMuffin

    Police in Ohio say they’re looking for a man who pulled out a gun after being told by a McDonald’s drive-thru worker there were no Egg McMuffin sandwiches available.

    Police say the incident occurred shortly after 3:30 a.m. Wednesday at a McDonald’s in Warren, about 60 miles (97 kilometers) southeast of Cleveland.

    The worker told police that two men inside the car appeared to be around 20 years old. She said the driver called her a vulgar name after pulling out the gun and then cursed at her again before driving away.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Weird/wireStory/cops-man-pulls-gun-ohio-failing-mcmuffin-50882844

    • Joe in PA

      Thanks Hillary.

      • Gustav2

        That is Trump country so it is her fault.

    • Bambino

      First charge should be glorifying a crappy breakfast sandwich.

    • stuckinthewoods

      Last night a man here was shot at a vigil for a shooting victim.

  • LesbianTippingHabits


    A Democrat fails to do her homework before complaining. This is not news.

    • GayOldLady

      And I bet she’s a poor tipper.

      • Tomcat

        She gave Hillary a tip on the debate questions.

        • Joe in PA

          That is kind of a bullshit comment, Hillary could have handled any fucking question the moderator put to her. She needed NO crib notes unlike the orange wonder. The sad truth is that Ms Brazile took it upon herself to do that. BTW, do we even know that that was true?

          Sorry, didn’t really mean to attack you (especially if that was snark), I’m just so pissed at this Brazile woman trying to make a buck like this. I hope she rots.

          • If I remember right, the question given was actually more of a topic than a specific query. It was a heads-up that HRC was going to get a question about tainted water. In Flint, Michigan. Shocker!

          • Gustav2

            In MIchigan?!!!!!!!!1111!!!!

  • GayOldLady

    Here’s the Memo from Robby Mook to the DNC:

    http://15130-presscdn-0-89.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/DNCMemo-002.pdf

    And it occurred to me as I read this memo that Donna Brazile didn’t technically take the helm of the DNC until July 28th, which was after Hillary had won the nomination on July 26th. Of course at that point the HIllary campaign was running the DNC as it was supposed to. Brazile says she didn’t inform Bernie until Sept 2016, Hillary had been the nominee for 2 months at that point. What a crock this all is!!!!

    • Friday’s_cat

      Given Brazile’s less than stellar performance in 2000 why in god’s name was she given control of the DNC?

      • unsavedheathen

        Because DWS, the Clinton stooge who had been at the helm of the DNC since 2009 and had basically turned the party into an arm of the Clinton campaign well before either memo was written had embarrassed herself and the party when emails favoring HRC over all comers surfaced thru Wiki.

        You’re welcome.

        • Tread

          Oh bullshit. Stop telling that lie like you’re convincing the rest of us. DWS is a hack but by no means did the DNC act as a wing of the Clinton campaign, no matter how hard you believe it.

          • unsavedheathen

            I understand your frustration. There’s nothing harder than admitting that you have been utterly, disastrously wrong on something like this. It’s so much easier to stick your head in the sand and ignore 2016 and everything that led up to it. And that way we can repeat it all again!

  • Tomcat

    All politics is for too many is a chance to get rich writing (usually through others) books.

  • Michael White

    This is why we will not take back the house in 2018 and probably not take the whitehouse back in 2020. We always destroy ourselves. Like Mark Twain (?) said: I don’t belong to an organized political party I am a democrat.

    • Gustav2

      In Twain’s day Democrats had mostly the racist Dixiecrats.

      That quote is from Will Rogers.

      • Gustav2

        REPUBLICANS

        I had been accustomed to vote for Republicans more frequently than for Democrats, but I was never a Republican and never a Democrat. In the community, I was regarded as a Republican, but I had never so regarded myself. As early as 1865 or ’66 I had had this curious experience: that whereas up to that time I had considered myself a Republican, I was converted to a no-party independence by the wisdom of a rabid Republican. This was a man who was afterward a United States Senator, and upon whose character rests no blemish that I know of, except that he was the father of the William R. Hearst of to-day, and therefore grandfather of Yellow Journalism – that calamity of calamities.
        – Twain Autobiographical dictation, January 24, 1906

        • greenmanTN

          Odd. For whatever reason I never really thought of Twain and Wm R Hearst as being contemporaries.

  • Tomcat

    My guess is she wants deplorables to buy her book so she lied to make it better for them. Any Democrats that buy her book deserve what they get, knowing she lied.

    • another_steve

      Yes.

      Brazile gave the Republicans a huge gift. You can be sure they’ll use it in upcoming state and local elections.

      • Kelly Lape

        The GOP always lies. She’ll make a fine Republican, she sure as hell isn’t welcome around me.

        • margaretpoa

          Brazile has always been a huge conservadem. She belongs in the same sty with Penn and Davis and Emanuel, et al.

    • margaretpoa

      My guess is that and that her publisher released the juiciest bits our of context to get the book in the news cycle, the country be damned.

  • Lars Littlefield

    So there! Neener, neener, neener!

  • worstcultever

    The damage has been done.

    “Crooked Hillary Rigged 2016 Election – The Bombshell Story That Dwarfs Trump & Russia!” shall be *the* story henceforward.

    I give up on you, America.

    • Kelly Lape

      So a money grubbing “liberal” writes a book and stretches the truth to appeal to the reich wing for a buck… and you give up on America. Sad. No wonder the GOP wins elections.

      • worstcultever

        Of course I’ll keep voting and activizing to every extent I can. But when there are so obviously two different sets of rules – Dump skates on every manner of rhetorical outrage, including actually embracing nazis, and is Hill bludgeoned to death for uttering the word “deplorable” – well.

    • Treant

      It’s unfortunate, but the Democrats actually do have standards. Republicans don’t.

      It’s equally unfortunate that we don’t seem to require any more proof than Republicans do when presented with a juicy, nasty rumor.

  • andrew

    The absolute last thing that the Democrats should be doing is arguing about who did what to whom in the last election. They need to laser focus on how Trump and the Republican’s are undermining the quality of the lives of average Americans and tell America specifically what they will do differently.

    • margaretpoa

      I want to fight a war with Republicans, not other Democrats/progressives,

      • andrew

        Absolutely.

      • Friday’s_cat

        The war is with fools, dupes, and moles.

        • margaretpoa

          Hmph! Well put.

    • Joe in PA

      But how would Donna $ell her book? /s

  • Jeffrey

    Liberals are determined to fuck up the next two years. Zero coincidence that this is happening just as Trump is starting to fall hard. Just as the Weinstein nightmare exploded as Bill Oreilly’s 32 Million dollar payout was exposed.

  • Dreaming Vertebrate

    In other words, Dean is simply saying that Donna really screwed the pooch on this one.

    • Friday’s_cat

      Is this a variation of the pork chop around the neck joke?

      • Dreaming Vertebrate

        Not sure I’ve heard that variation.

        • Friday’s_cat

          I see … scared the pooch …

          • Dreaming Vertebrate

            If you refresh, you’ll see why the pooch was so scared!

  • SoCalGal20

    Downthread I mused about how many Bernie stans and Bros (and purity Dems) are actually Russian bots/trolls/plants. This is one of the reasons why I was contemplating that. Two popular conservative twitter accounts were actually Russian trolls.

    https://twitter.com/spytalker/status/926586580105596928

  • Friday’s_cat

    Joe Cannon, cannonfireblogspot, while given to hyperbole at times alleges Brazile is dirty.

    • Tomcat

      Oow, dirty girl.

    • worstcultever

      She’s worse than dirty, she’s tiresome.

    • SoCalGal20

      Did Russia pay her lol?

  • blackstar

    If this in any way influences the next election. WE DESERVE IT !

    • Tomcat

      A lie travels much faster than the truth, but in the end they both end up in the same place.

      • Friday’s_cat

        I used to say a lie travels halfway around the world before Bill Clinton pulls his pants up.

  • 2patricius2

    So this turns out to be much ado about nothing.

    • Gustav2

      …to just sell books.

    • margaretpoa

      Just another excuse for the Bernie fan club to be outraged.

      • Tomcat

        They are still upset because they have to pay their student loans.

        • Tread

          That’s why most of them are so pissed. They aren’t getting their free shit.

  • worstcultever

    And look at Dean himself – yelled happily & triumphantly into a mic at a victory celebration (with artificially MSM amplified audio) – and was immediately sent scurrying off the political stage in shame and ignominy. And he fucking just accepted it.

    I wonder if we’ll ever see a fire-in-the-belly, unapologetic dem ever again.

    • Dreaming Vertebrate

      Dean’s triumphant yell seems rather tame compared to Dumpf’s cries of “Lock her up!” and relentless stream of non-stop LIES.

      • worstcultever

        there are no rules for pukes – none whatsoever.

        • Dreaming Vertebrate

          It’s so infuriating – the obvious double standards.

      • Treant

        I kinda dug it, actually.

    • Tomcat

      I guess the world was just not ready for a loud proud Democrat back then.
      I never understood how people allowed the media to do what they did to Howard Dean back then.

      • worstcultever

        oh they were just warming up

      • Friday’s_cat

        After what the print and broadcast news media did to Al Gore?
        My hope is journalists at the New York Times and Washington Post lost friends or loved ones to 911 as payment for the lies and distortions.

    • Lazycrockett

      and years later CNN admitted to tweaking the sound to make the yell more shrill than it was in the room.

    • Tread

      Well, aside from running the DNC and his 50 state strategy giving us the House and Senate. People seem to conveniently forget that was him who did that.

  • Joe in PA

    I really, really hope that book tanks and Donna never surfaces again in politics.

  • Pizza009

    Bernie is not a Democrat. I will repeat this till I die. Not not not

    • Tomcat

      Is not, will not, was not, ETC.

  • Ross

    Previously posted:

    So…for the 6,893 time in 25 years, we have a DAMAGING Hillary story which upon inspection…

    …isn’t true.

    If I were Hillary I would leave America.

    • Tulle Christensen

      I think you missed one this the 6,894 time

    • blackstar

      This. everything else is Drama Queen reaction or bots.

    • worstcultever

      I would too. With a big old FUCK ALL Y’ALL.

    • Treant

      Hell, if I were Chelsea, I’d be planning to leave. Why stay when you know that you’re the next in line to be tarred and feathered?

    • Do Something Nice

      Interestingly, I didn’t see this as a Hillary story. I saw it as a damaging story about the DNC.

      • stuckinthewoods

        I didn’t see it as a Hillary story either. I saw it as recognition that you have to be a member of the party and fund raiser for the party to get the attention of the party.

        • lymis

          And the agreement is just that DNC staff be “acceptable” to Hillary, along with the fact that a similar arrangement is possible for the other candidates – implying by extension that such a staff pick would have to be acceptable to all the candidates with similar agreements, not that Hillary gets to control the DNC (unless and until she got the nomination.)

  • Ninja0980

    The media, Republicans and washed up Democrats know that if they bash Hillary, their allegations will get them lots of clicks and publicity, facts be damned.
    This is more of the same.

    • 2patricius2

      And when people criticize Hillary for losing the election, I tell them that she won the election by almost 3 million votes over the Drumpf, and in an ordinary Democratic country, she would be sitting in the Oval Office now.

      • Ross

        Agreed.

        And when people criticize Hillary for losing the election, I tell them: Well, that is happens when Russia determines the results.

        • Ninja0980

          Not to mention voter id laws which blocked people from voting.

  • If we had listened to Howard Dean when he was at the DNC we’d be in a very different position as a party today. But it was more important to protect petty fiefdoms than win elections and plan for future elections.

    • paganguy

      Remember when something as simple as an overexcited yell had everyone concernstipated that a candidate might not be fit to serve as President? Ah… it was more naive time then.

      • I saw that moment live and didn’t think anything of it. Then the next morning the “news” media made it sound like he’d had a nervous breakdown. In reality I think the problem for Dean was that the national press corps is a bunch of lazy motherfuckers who don’t want to have to go out and find out about anyone new. That might leaving their studio chair and doing some actual reporting rather than sitting in front of a camera and talking out their asses.

  • blackstar
    • AJ Drew

      I’ll believe it when it happens, but this a fun daydream at least:
      “Trump asking how resignation process works.”

      http://www.bluedotdaily.com/staffer-releases-details-about-trump-asking-how-resignation-process-works/

    • BobSF_94117

      It would certainly be nice if it is eventually proven that Trump was personally involved in the collusion, but we shouldn’t act as though only that level of participation completely invalidates his presidency and his administration. Collusion by the campaign is reason to seek extreme corrections.

      • paganguy

        Money laundering. I think that’s what will bring him down. His greed is his weak spot.

  • Kevin Andrews

    There is no clearer demonstration of the reality of Fascism in AmeriKKKa than these underhanded, lying, Republican Lite bastards who validate the election fraud they’ve perpetrated and their treason.
    The DNC deserves it’s slow suicide by pants suit. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/78dfcf8f6294f299876fbbf87b26ad3d4be24826571151c7611eae455fa02875.png

    • Rebecca Gardner

      Don’t you belong over at Breitbart or InfoWars? Places for complete, uninformed idiots that believe conspiracy theories.

      I think the lead in the InfoWars supplements has rotted your brain.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8b56c1d7eb5d13e0581e4749b83902f0add4006beec95f8b9bb3a39d3fc03fb3.png

    • Tomcat

      Congratulations Kevin, you earned the coveted BLOCK award.

    • Ross

      Yes, dear.

    • Treant

      (Tugs sleeve) He lost by millions of votes. The superdelegates, if they all voted for Bastard Bernie, would have still resulted in his loss.

      But you earned your block with that one, and another Russian BernieBot bites the dust.

    • Tulle Christensen

      So you missed the part where all this has been shown to be BS, eh comrade?

      • fuow

        While I agree, please don’t forget that many of us on the furthest left edge of the Party DID hold our noses and both work for and vote for Hillary. Including those of us who actually do use the term Genosse.

        • Tulle Christensen

          I am not a Hillary fan myself, nor am I anti Hillary, but I happily voted for Hillary over Trump. or for that matter would have over any of the other Republicans that ran

        • Rebecca Gardner

          I loved Hillary, donated to her campaign, and on election day me and the vast majority of Americans voted for her to be President. Sadly, the Electoral College failed to do it’s stated job and so we are where we are today.

    • fuow

      Kevin,
      While I would have infinitely preferred many, many Democrats to Hillary, she was our best shot. Elections in the US are about preventing the mother-fucking christer haters from hurting gay men, transgender and intersex people. They are not purity tests.
      I regret that you are unable to understand this. Fortunately, for you, after the Supreme Court (with the vote of a Justice who would never have been there, not even under Hillary) strips you of your constitutional equal rights in December, perhaps you’ll have the time to reflect on what a fool you have been.
      Or, then again, probably not.

      • Ninja0980

        They didn’t with Roberts and Alito and the other horrible judges W put on the courts, why would they now?

    • SoCalGal20

      How much is Russia paying you?

      Donna lied to make a buck. Bernie was treated fairly.

      Bye now.

    • blackstar
    • 2guysnamedjoe

      If you’re for real, Kevin, please answer the following question:

      If yesterday was Thursday, what day is tomorrow?

    • Boreal
  • Rebecca Gardner

    Oh God Trump is such a fucking idiot, and it’s only the 1st day of his trip.

    Trump warns China it could face ‘big problem’ with ‘warrior nation’ Japan over North Korea
    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/11/04/national/politics-diplomacy/trump-warns-china-face-big-problem-warrior-nation-japan-north-korea/#.Wf17x1ztzOQ

    • Friday’s_cat

      Teenage Mutant Japanese Ninja warriors?

    • Tomcat

      The son of a bitch is using Japan as the pawn to get his war going.
      He has no morality at all.

    • Dazzer

      Oh God.

      Even Abe probably covered his face and cried at that one.

    • Ross
      • worstcultever

        upvote just because I needed to see an image of an actual human

    • Treant

      They’ll send Samurai, and then you’ll be sorry, China!

    • Rebecca Gardner

      Article IX of the Japanese Constitution.

      (1) Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of
      the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes.
      (2) In order to accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.

      • medaka

        Article 9 is the one that the Abe fascists want to “amend.”

      • Tomcat

        They have in recent years talked about changing their constitution to allow them to use preemptive attacks again.

        • Rebecca Gardner

          Talked, yes, since 2014. However, Trump’s words are ignorant and uninformed.

          • Tomcat

            True, and only used for the purpose of giving China someone to blame instead of him.

      • Tulle Christensen

        Yes we should know we wrote it for them…

        • Rebecca Gardner

          Yeah, one would think that would be obvious. Then again we are talking about Trump who has the IQ of a walnut shell.

          • Tempus Fuggit

            I’ve a jar of walnuts wanting a word with you in the kitchen. They seem cross.

      • JAKvirginia

        Trump hasn’t read OURS! He sure as hell hasn’t read theirs. The only thing he knows about Japan is from Godzilla and samurai movies.

        • paganguy

          You’re all assuming that he actually reads. I think the reason he kept Mein Kampf on his nightstand was so it could just drift into his brain by osmosis.

          • JAKvirginia

            Boy…. he IS delusional!

    • worstcultever

      Calm down everyone – they all know he’s an ineffectual mutant toddler moron joke

      • Tomcat

        And the Arch Duke Ferdinand was only one man too.

        • Treant

          The difference being that Europe was tied together by complex family relationships and rather arcane treaties requiring response under any circumstance.

          If somebody Ferdinands this guy, the majority of Americans will join the rest of the world, cheering.

          • Jean-Marc in Canada

            It’s true. I know I and the husbotter would no doubt hold an all out champagne soaked shindig to celebrate such an event. Hell, we’d make it open bar with 36 year old scotchs, Martinis by the bucket and bottles of ’38 Moet.

          • Treant

            If there’s a clothing-optional room, count me in.

          • Jean-Marc in Canada

            Well, we do have a dungeon/play room

          • Treant

            Works for me!

    • Friday

      This moron sure does like to say “Let’s you and him fight.”

  • blackstar
  • SoCalGal20

    Meanwhile…Guccifer 2.0 is arguing with Adam Parkhomenko about when his other twitter account was created (it was on June 9, 2016 – same day as Jr’s Trump Tower meetings with the Russians). The thread is quite something!

    https://twitter.com/adamparkhomenko/status/926729118070312960

    Btw this came about because of AP’s story yesterday about the DNC hack and this followup story from Business Insider about Guccifer 2.0 altering DNC emails.

    https://twitter.com/natashabertrand/status/926539836223352832

  • Paula

    I wonder if the repubs will give Donna Brazile the MVP of the Decade Award at their next convention?

    • Joe in PA

      That is truly the only place she could show her face. 🙁

  • justmeeeee

    Any chance the DNC might just come up with a plan to clean up its act and treat everyone fairly? Nahhhhhhh….way too hard.

  • justmeeeee

    The queen used the deal to launder campaign cash…nothing too complicated about that. Time to circle the wagons, Hill-bots!

    • danolgb

      Thanks for playing, but it’s a wrong assessment. Until the nomination was clinched, the money for the states was essentially quarantined. It couldn’t be released before the general election. However, after the primaries it was.

      https://twitter.com/ahumorlessfem/status/926249997376638976

      http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/11/donna-brazile-and-the-latest-great-hillary-scandal/

      • Cuberly Deux

        ∆∆∆This∆∆∆

    • Jean-Marc in Canada

      Says the Trumpanzee who is thrilled about SCOTUS going right, people potentially losing their healthcare, Trans citizens having their rights chipped away at, not to mention LGB’s…yes, let’s listen to the petulant Bernie Bot and his salivating, frothing at the mouth with joy because of Trump’s “success” at our expense.

    • SinfulJosh

      So if Trump signed a similar agreement with the RNC?

  • Jean-Marc in Canada

    Well, call me shocked and stunned that a dubious charge against the Democrats once again comes just before an election…

    • Stephen Elliot Phillips

      Democrats are experts at circular firing squads

  • danolgb

    More proof that Bernie was given the exact same opportunity.

    https://twitter.com/NickMerrill/status/926474359371370496

  • Keith D Plane

    I find it interesting HRC and Bernie have so far said nothing about all of this (at least I haven’t seem anything). i suspect that are letting Donna twist in the wind over this.

    • BeaverTales

      I think this has moved far beyond Hillary and Bernie themselves. The DNC has a smell that it can’t shake after the shenanigans of Wasserman Schultz’s massive Fail.. Many (most?) small donors are refusing to donate anymore until they erase the taint of whether they will treat all the candidates fairly.

      The former Clinton supporters want the candidates to pass a purity test, while we former Bernie supporters wanted to open up the party to more demographics than they traditionally cater to.

      It’s ugly and complicated. We continue to lose elections in the meantime.

      • Tread

        You idiots are so transparent. You get called out for your purity test bullshit and then try and claim Clinton supporters are the ones doing it? I’m embarrassed for you about how stupid you look.

  • Sharon Richardson

    I think Donna Brazile was just trying to sell books. Bernie Sanders knew about the agreement and tried to get his voters to turn to Clinton. Unfortunately, the “Bernie or Bust” contingent and the Russians gave us trump instead!

  • Tempus Fuggit

    Oh, it was standard procedure! I guess that makes it okeh, then.

    • BobSF_94117

      Yes, yes it does. It isn’t what you think it is. It’s the party and candidates working together. It’s not only OK, it’s great.

      • Tempus Fuggit

        Mm, one can see how successful it’s made the Democrats.

        • BobSF_94117

          It took a multi-decade smear campaign and a multi-year treasonous assault on our democracy to steal an election. That seems like a lot of effort to me.

        • stevenj

          It did get Clinton nearly 3 million more votes than trump.

          • Robert K Wright

            In all the wrong places. She could have had six million more, but if they aren’t in the places they need to be…. and really, she lost WI, which hadn’t voted red for President in just shy of 30 years. We don’t win by popular vote, and she ignored the states that gave Trump the win.

  • Cuberly Deux

    Well, that “new book” marketing ploy guaranteed breathless coverage from the left and right. Does the claim qualify as lies via omission? Yep.

    Donna..sad.sad.sad…Donna.

  • JWC

    Bernie was insistent in being obtuse.He didn’t support Clinton. He had his own agenda that he promoted under the Clinton banner

  • JCF
  • Donna, Donna, Donna…..we didn’t think this through before throwing one of your own under the bus. You blame rethugs for not gathering the facts before spinning a story and then you do it in a book. I’ve always admired you for your stands but this requires a written apology given the misrepresentation will forever be used by the rethugs to spin more lies. This interferes with democracy.

  • Establishment dems much like right wing Christians are experts at twisting the truth to fit their beliefs.

  • I love dim sum

    Oh of course Howard Dean is going to lie about the DNC rigging the primaries, he’s one of the biggest sellouts there is.

    Basically, if you quote Peter Daou, Howard Dean, or Joy Ann Reid, you are just quoting a sellout neoliberal propaganda merchant, and no one will take you seriously.

    I’m glad to see the DNC crumbling to pieces, and its all the fault of Hillary, and her obnoxious, incredibly irrational supporters.

  • BeaverTales

    No more purity tests or backdoor agreements favoring wealthy donors…The DNC can’t continue to eat its own young while simultaneously expanding its base among new voters.

    Let’s stop worshipping the ersatz DJIA and start educating people well enough to get a job where they can afford to buy a house and start a family before they turn 40.

  • lymis

    All this proves is that
    a) the DNC airs its laundry in public, while the RNC does it all in secret
    b) when internal crap gets public, the GOP uses it for (lying) talking points, while the Dems correctly consider it internal and none of their business.

  • BeaverTales

    “Tammy Baldwin: ‘Unfair process’ for Democrats in 2016 presidential primary”.

    Another former Clinton supporter comes clean. Tammy is the first open lesbian elected to the US Senate.

    http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/tammy-baldwin-unfair-process-for-democrats-in-presidential-primary/article_71ca252d-0eba-584c-9f00-ad452c83a0dd.html#tncms-source=infinity-scroll-summary-siderail-latest

    • ultragreen

      Tammy Baldwin will be next on the hard-core Hillary supporters’ hitlist.

      • BeaverTales

        They’re lashing out at everyone. They’ve already eliminated Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden because both also refused to kiss the queen of inevitability’s feet. No one who acknowledges the truth is going to be good enough for them.

        They don’t understand how the electoral college works. I predict Trump will win a second term, and he’ll have them to thank for it.

        • Tread

          No, we’re just lashing out a willfully obtuse liars like yourself.

          • BeaverTales

            Ylur calling truth tellers liars so that you can spread more lies. Fuck off, troll.

    • Robert K Wright

      Please, they’ll be throwing her under the bus any minute now. They don’t care who says it, if it even possibly makes the process look unfair they will throw her under the bus for saying it. Funny, but it’s like the republican response to gun control. There’s a problem. It’s been noted, but it’s simply not the right time to talk about it. Maybe later, after a number of elections happen under the same type of circumstance. I hope Tammy is ready for the backlash.

  • ultragreen

    Howard Dean is part of the problem.

    • Tread

      Howard Dean and his 50 state strategy gave the Democrats the Senate and the House, several governorships, several state legislatures, and countless municipal positions, so fuck right off with that noise, purity troll.

  • danolgb

    I mean, if we want to talk about “rigged” primaries, the one to look at is Vermont’s Senate race. It’s interesting how Bernie manipulates the process there to his benefit. He registers to run as both a Democrat and as an independent. (Note the small “i” as there is no “Independent” party.

    So, he runs in a primary for the nomination of a party he has no intention on accepting. He only does that so that he can send the message to any serious challenger that he’s running in the general election whether he wins the primary or not. So a serious challenger will never actually run because why waste your time in running in the primary if Bernie is just going to run a kamikaze mission that takes both you and him out in the general?

    Maybe it’s time that the Dems stop allowing him to use them and put a rule in place that you can’t run in their primary and then run as an independent in the general.

    https://vtdigger.org/2012/06/13/sanders-papers-filed-peyton-running-for-governor/#.Wf4yTltSxad

    • I love dim sum

      LOL, you Hillary supporters are only capable of lying and deflecting aren’t you? Well I guess 2018 and 2020 are just going to be more bloodbaths for you.

      • danolgb

        What’s the lie? I even provided the article where the campaign themselves say they do a dual registration.

        “..more bloodbaths for you.”

        This tells me that you’re not actually a progressive but a right wing troll.

        • I love dim sum

          Wrong, I’m progressive, but keep deflecting and burying your head in the sand, I’ll be laughing at you in the upcoming elections.

          • danolgb

            “I’ll be laughing at you in the upcoming elections.”

            You’re either a right wing troll or an idiot. Of course both can be true.

          • I love dim sum

            Well, you are a Hillary troll, which makes you a right wing troll (since she’s a repub that pretends to be liberal)

        • Boreal

          ‘I love dip shit’ is a right wing troll, worth blocking.

  • Steven H

    The damage is already done. There’s a huge contingent on Twitter that is convinced that Bernie was robbed. There’s another huge contingent on Twitter that is convinced that Hillary was robbed. Never the twain shall meet, and half those motherfuckers won’t be voting in 2018.

    Republicans always get out and vote because they are convinced that the Democrats are conspiring against them, and Democrats stay home on election day because they are also convinced that the Democrats are conspiring against them. Until one side or the other gives up on Facebook and Twitter, Democrats are going to be losing a lot of elections.

    • I love dim sum

      The DNC deserves to go the way of the Whigs. They are nothing but a second Republican party, that pretends to like gay people (they don’t really).

      I’m only voting Green or Socialist in 2018 and 2020.

      • fuow

        Somehow, I have the feeling either or both of those parties deserve you royally.

      • Steven H

        You clearly don’t know sh*t about how much the Democrats have helped gay people over the last 8 years. I’m not a Democrat, but I worked with them in the DOJ during the Obama years, where Obama’s appointees made amazing strides advancing gay rights throughout the government.

      • Robert K Wright

        So, you would support the Russian Contingent? We saw who Stein was aligned with and it wasn’t gay rights.

        • I love dim sum

          We saw that Hillary was aligned with the Russians when she colluded with them to dig up dirt on Trump, when Bill took millions of dollars to give speeches to Russian banks, and when the Clinton Foundation took even more money for uranium mine rights.

          Oh, and Hillary was anti marriage equality until 3 years ago and her husband signed DOMA. They have been virulently anti-gay for most of their careers until maybe a few years ago.

          • Robert K Wright

            You are obviously a right wing troll to suggest that Clinton was aligned with Russia. And now with the Uranium One accusations you’ve shown exactly what you are. As for her positions on Gay Marriage, every single politician prior to 2008 held that opinion at one time or the other. So that doesn’t mean shit. Go lie about who you are elsewhere. Uranium One….for fucks sake your an idiot.

          • I love dim sum

            Wrong, the idiot is you. You’re the one that’s right wing, voting for a Republican-lite like Hillary. Oh and despite your claims, the Uranium One deal happened, sorry.

            And actually there were lots of politicians that were pro gay rights prior to 2008. How uninformed are you? Oh yeah that’s right, you are a Hillary supporter, if you were informed you wouldn’t be.

          • Robert K Wright

            You don’t even know the details of the Uranium One story or you wouldn’t post this crap. And you seemingly have no idea who I supported. I voted for Sanders in the primaries. I supported Clinton in the general because, well, Trump. And I don’t support any republicans. None.

          • I love dim sum

            I supported Sanders until I realized that he was just sheepdogging people into voting for Hillary. He should have sued the DNC for rigging the primaries and ran independent. And he’s parroting the Russia conspiracy narrative. So I do not support Hillary, and I voted Green Party for the first time.

            And you do support republicans, because you are pro Hillary. Sorry bud.

          • Robert K Wright

            Oh, Stein, the other bought and paid for Russian candidate, she’s right up there with Flynn when it comes to treasonous behavior, and she’s an anti-vaxxer loon. Woo boo, a real winner.

          • I love dim sum

            You are just spouting easily debunked Correct the Record talking points. Stein was never anti vax, she said she wanted stronger quality control on pharmaceutical companies. Hillary lied, as she always does, and twisted it into the anti-vax lie.

            Is everybody in your world that’s not Hillary, a paid Russia operative? You really sound nutty af. The Clinton Foundation has taken millions from Russia in bribe money, so that blows your argument right out of the water.

    • leastyebejudged

      You get your information from Twitter. That’s all you needed to say.

      • Steven H

        I don’t have a personal Twitter account. I follow people on Twitter for work so that I can find hate crimes (which my office prosecutes) just in case the FBI doesn’t tell us about them. At the national level, those crimes tend to show up on Twitter faster than they do in the mainstream media.

        But Twitter RE politics is entirely useless.

    • Robert K Wright

      They were both robbed. Bernie of a fair shot (and I’m not meaning the Donna revelations, I’m talking about who was staffed at the DNC. Debbie Wasserman Shultz did not give him a fair shake, she already supported a candidate, as did a number of the staff. Yes they .can have a preference personally, but NO ONE should have let that preference be known prior to the primaries and a nomination was had. Not when you work as the system.) And the party with these super delegates, which was really only a way to work around the repair of the party back in what, 1976. The party never really fixed itself, it just did a work around.
      Also, as a side note, this back and forth after losing an election, has happened every time we’ve had one. Everyone seems to think it’s outrageous. That it’s the end of the Party, or the end of our electoral wins. But then we win and everything gets forgotten until the next time we don’t win. Al Gores issues, Kerry’s Issues, and now Clintons book, Brazilles book, it’s all the same. But I think we will do well in the midterms, I don’t think the “Party” will play as much importance in 2018 as the actual grassroots will.

  • leastyebejudged

    That’s the point, the DNC is corrupt to the core, and it’s members appear to be content with that level of corruption.

    • SinfulJosh

      so if Trump signed a similar agreement with the RNC?

      • leastyebejudged

        Oh, well in that case, it’s OK, two wrongs make a right, every time.

        • SinfulJosh

          You are claiming that the DNC is rotten to the core because they engaged in the use of these agreements with the candidates.

          My comment is not about the merits of your claim, only pointing out the obvious that the RNC also engages in the use of these tame agreements and that Trump had signed one with the RNC not long after the ones signed by Clinton and Sanders for the DNC.

          To state your judgement against one side while ignoring the same actions from the other side shows, at worst, an intentional lack of impartiality.

          • Robert K Wright

            Did the RNC allow Trump to take over the party a full year before the primary?

          • danolgb

            You may want to get up-to-date. Donna has changed her tune. Her real complaint is that Hillary’s campaign was controlling the money when she took over. The primaries were over by that time and Bernie had “conceded.” Getting approval for hires from the candidates, an offer Bernie was also given (proved by an email published by WaPo) is a far cry from “taking over the party.”

          • Robert K Wright

            I’m talking about the agreement from 2015, not that anyone has seen the actual agreement. I’ve seen it reported on, but they only mention the draft in reporting, never the finalized deal. And it’s not like this is Brazilles first time at the DNC, she would know if the document wasn’t the “standard” agreement. And I am up to date, just because she adds criticism as time progresses doesn’t mean she’s disavowed her original statement. She still says the agreement was legal but in her view unethical. She still stands by that. One can have more than on issue with someone. It’s noy a limit of one issue per author. And it’s a book promotion, there will be more and more as days go on, just as there were daily revelations when Clinton published her book. Remember, people were recently saying they wish she would shut up and go away, that she shouldn’t have written about the election and all that. Funny, but Clinton supporters are now saying to Brazille what they were so angry for being told themselves. There is a difference between the Two Parties, but there isn’t much difference in the way individual voters respond to winning and loosing. Or to criticism. Most people bury their heads and won’t hear an iota of criticisms against their chosen one.

          • danolgb

            Yes, we have seen the agreement. The JFA’s were identical. But Brazile’s conflated them with another document which covers fundraising in excess of the JFA agreement. Hillary didn’t take over the DNC before the primary. That was headline spin. They did give the campaign veto power on hiring the communications director, but that’s hardly the campaign being in control. And guess what, that same offer for that same agreement was given to Bernie when he was given the JFA. WaPo published the email from the DNC to Bernie’s camp making that offer. I linked it in the comments on this article.
            And Donna just today said her complaint was she wasn’t given full control of the DNC. But she wouldn’t have been anyway. During the general, the candidate’s campaign is in charge. That’s when she came on board. There was nothing new about that arrangement. That she doesn’t understand it is more of an indictment on her than anything else.

          • Robert K Wright

            Again, we have NOT seen the actual finalized agreement. We’ve seen the initial agreement in email form, not the finalized version. At least not in any reporting I’ve seen. If you can provide a link to the actual finalized agreement I’d be interested to read what you see. And again, the control issue she mentioned in today’s reports is another issue she had. Not just one problem she thought was there but multiple. Look forward to seeing the actual signed agreement and not just the emails, funny how emails plays into it, just a touch of irony…lol

          • danolgb

            Actually, you know what? It’s not up to me to produce that. It’s up to her to produce both campaign’s agreements and to highlight the differences. It’s her making the accusations. So why don’t you go ask her? Since you believe her and not Howard Dean.

          • Robert K Wright

            You said you’d seen it, that’s why I asked if you had a link. And yes, I wonder about Deans statement, as he made qualifying statements, “IF that is the case…..” was part of his tweet about the issue. He said it seemed to be the standard one, but he admits he hasn’t seen it. At least as of yesterday. And here I thought we had gotten to an actual discussion. I was sincerely interested in seeing what you had read, as I haven’t seen what you are saying. The only reason it would be up to you to,produce it is because you’re making the claim you are, and I was curious as to what exactly you’d seen. And pray tell, why should I believe Howard Dean over her? What makes him more qualified than her on this? They’ve both held the job, what makes him more credible? (I voted for him and I stood on a corner in Miami Beach with a sign saying “Howard Dean Stands For Me.” Just as he requested us Deaniacs to do. (Funny, we got the exact same response as the Bernie supporters, only a decade earlier, people seem to forget that.)

            I was really trying to engage in a discussion and see what you see. Hard to do when you don’t want to share your supporting info.

          • danolgb

            You might find this interesting then. EVERYTHING she says she discovered was reported on in July 2015. She didn’t expose anything but her own ignorance. Also pay particular note to the part where it says Gore’s campaign asked for the same control. Guess who was the campaign manager for Gore’s campaign.

            https://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/clinton-puts-tight-grip-on-dnc-wallet-119748

          • Robert K Wright

            And yet again, in this article it’s a mention of the agreement before everything was finalized, and we haven’t seen any copy of the finalized agreement, why is that? The DNC hasn’t released a finalized and signed agreement. Not to mention the article clearly discusses the possible optics of the agreement and how far their over site was allowed. But I’m still waiting for the actual agreement itself. Eventually it will come out in public. If the DNC disagreed, honestly, with her accounting then they would release the signed agreement so we could all see exactly what Donna thinks is so unethical. But yes, it was an interesting read.

          • danolgb

            You really miss out on the important things in your quest to find an issue where there isn’t one.

            The article describes everything Brazile complains about. The date of the article is July 2015. It’s clear this wasn’t some great secret that was being hatched behind Bernie’s back. It’s all there in the fucking open. You don’t need to see the fucking agreement. Her claims match the article. The important thing is everyone paying attention knew this. And she damn well should have not found any of it a surprise because the campaign she ran got the same thing.

          • Robert K Wright

            Well, my only issue is that everyone keeps saying “We’ve seen the document, we’ve seen the document”. Yet not one person can actually show any link to the signed and finalized document. That’s the one Brazille said she saw, and every mention of the emails is that it is the preliminary agreement. I’m not sure how you can claim to “know” that there isn’t anything more odious in the final agreement. I don’t know why it’s so hard to keep an open mind until someone actually produces the document. And you’ve said over and over that we have “proof” yet still, no one can show the actual signed agreement. And yes, we do need to see the “damn document”. It is, after all the center of the argument. It boggles my mind how people so willingly accept conclusions without proper proof. You say it matches reporting, but that reporting you linked shows that even the reporter thought it important to note that it wasn’t the finalized and formalized agreement. You can believe anything you want to believe. Me? I like a little proof in my pudding. (And really? Her claims match the article? The one where they say they don’t know the final info, or how much pressure and influence the campaign wanted to assert prior to the primaries, which it states they could have…..). And the Sanders campaign has stated that they were NOT offered the same deal.

          • danolgb

            Sure.. you just want proof.. but having Hillary’s JFA doesn’t actually prove anything. Because the claim is Bernie didn’t have the same offers. But you’re willing to just accept his campaign’s word even tho we have proof that at the very least, they knew of the offers back when the deals were in the works. No.. you don’t care about that. You just have your belief that Hillary is evil and you want to confirm it.

          • Robert K Wright

            I’ve never claimed Clinton was “evil”. That’s something you have imagined. I wouldn’t have cast a vote for her in the General if I’d thought she was “evil”. I just want to see the proof that it’s the same in it’s finalized stage as in the email drafts you seem to think are definitive.

            You seem to think wanting to form an opinion based on actual facts is wrong. It isn’t. Looking at what went wrong, what needs to be fixed, and moving past the issue will only happen when everything is out. Your head would explode if a Trump fan used your logic, that the actual truth, the actual documentation didn’t matter because we had some preliminary reports on the issue. Either you believe the full facts matter or you don’t. I do. I require as much proof when it comes to my sides issues as I do when it comes to the right wing.

            But you keep believing without full proof. If, and when (because it will come out) the signed agreement makes its public debut, I will accept the consensus. But we are not here yet.

          • danolgb

            You’ve been given facts. You’re just willfully ignoring them. It’s clear you only want to nail Hillary, because if you actually cared, it’s Bernie’s agreements and communications to him, both answered and ignored, that would show or clear any bias. But as you said yourself, you only want to see Hillary’s so you can see if something worse is in there. If there was, don’t you think Brazile would have reported that? You’re way to obvious too think you’re clever.

          • Robert K Wright

            keep burying your head, when the actual agreement comes out, then you can find some other reason to disparage Brazille. You say she’s only written the book to serve herself, but you had no problem with Clinton writing one to do the same. You’re blind, and you seem to think facts are just for the other team.

          • leastyebejudged

            You’re a little bit slow and stupid.