Dem Sen. Dick Durbin Warns Trump Will Be Reelected If Democrats Become Too Liberal: “Don’t Overdo It”

The Hill reports:

Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) predicted that Democrats would lose to President Trump again if they are too liberal. Durbin — the second highest-ranking Democrat in the Senate — said on local Chicago radio station WLS-AM on Sunday that Democrats shouldn’t “overdo it” by acting too liberal in response to Trump.

“We don’t give up on our values, but we better be sensitive, too, that there are people with more moderate views, and people who may disagree with some parts of the Democratic platform as they are presented. We’ve got to be open to that possibility,” he said.

  • Rex

    “Senator Dick” – said in my best Christine Baranski voice from her Cybill days.

    • Micah Spiese

      Any chance he’s a Doctor?

    • Joe in PA

      LOL, there is a automotive garage kind of near us called Dick’s Garage. We CAN NOT drive past without doing that line. Good job!

      • Rex

        With the name “Rex” I’ve never had a shortened or nickname option, but if I were named Richard, I’d sure as hell put a stop to being called Dick.

        • Joe in PA

          I hear ya. I’m still called “Joey” by my family. At this point in my life, I take it as a term of endearment. 🙂

        • teeveedub

          I once worked with a guy named Dick Handler. He had so many other options: Richard, Rick, Ricky, Richie. But no. He opted for Dick. As some of us do.

          • jerry

            Or race car driver Dick Trickle.

        • Bj Lincoln

          Because I use it as a derogatory term, I find it difficult to call someone named that by that name. I will let them know if I choke on their name why.

  • FAEN

    I respectfully disagree.

    • greenmanTN

      Me too, minus the respect.

      • Todd20036

        And maybe a little more “dis”.

  • The_Wretched

    Fvck you. Could we see some actually liberal stuff going on?

    The only one that’s made news is ‘medicare for all’ and ~17 Dem Senators are signed up – those would be the ones with some presidential aspirations. So maybe liberal ideas would actually sell well? I’m sure these Senators have considered that question closely.

    • Cipher

      Let’s start putting ideas we want out there and move the center back to the left.
      Republicans have been good at chipping away at the margins of an issue and leaning on something they dislike until they get what they want. I think we leftists too often go the “all or nothing” route with our great ideas. Too often we end up with the nothing half of that equation.

      Not ready for Medicare “for all” yet? Fine, then lets have Parts A & B for everyone 55+. That will put a lot of heavy utilizers into the Medicare system and off of private insurance for the bulk of their expenses, lowering costs for the private market enough to attract more younger insureds. Then lower it to 50, then 45, then…

      • The_Wretched

        I’m fully on board with a phased implementation*. It helps reduce systemic shock and backlash.

        *when it makes sense.

        • easygoingmister

          I would add that phased implementation* is a good way to monitor cause and effect so things can be modified as needed.

          *see note in above comment

      • Tawreos

        I have always thought this would be the easiest way to go to a single payer system.

        • Cipher

          Let’s brand it: the “Just the tip” method…?

          • Tawreos

            For once, I would be willing to play that game. =)

  • PickyPecker
  • bkmn

    If we don’t swing more liberal we will lose the millenials forever Dick.

    • MarkBuster

      done did. and the Sanders bashing that places like this engage in solidified it

      • Todd20036

        Sanders bashing wasn’t because Sanders was too liberal, it was because he bashed Clinton as corrupt, and didn’t acknowledge when she won, and dragged out the primaries longer than they needed to be.

        And he accused her of cheating in Nevada.

        THAT is why we bashed Sanders. Not because of his idea. Note the singular. Outside of a $15 minimum wage, he really had not much else.

        • The_Wretched

          Universal healthcare
          Universal college education

  • Tawreos

    This type of thinking will let the GOP keep dragging this country farther and farther to the right. The Dems need to give people a clear message and a path to follow to be able to stop the downward slide the rights policies have started for us.

    • Ninja0980

      Happening as we speak on the courts and in Congress.
      The fact Justices Kennedy and Roberts and Congressman such as John Kasich are viewed as moderates now speaks volumes.

      • Tawreos

        Kasich is only seen as a moderate because he wants to set himself up for a primary in 2020 as the Anti- Trump, same terrible policies, less obvious hatred and corruption.

        • The_Wretched

          Kasich would have passed everything Trump is currently failing to.

        • Gustav2

          It pisses me off when Kassich talks about what he would do in the country, NO ONE in the media asks him why the fuck he didn’t do it in Ohio.

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    • Randy503

      They NEED to be an alternative! IF anything, they have lost voters because they have moved too far to the right. I don’t think Bernie would have won the general election, but he DID energize lots of people.

      • stanhope

        The elephant in the room…that trump core was not going to vote for a Jew even if the Jew was Jesus. So there it has been said.

  • ByronK

    When you water policy down to appeal to as many people as possible, you usually end up short changing everyone.

  • Joe in PA
    • Bj Lincoln

      I do that a lot!

      • Todd20036

        I want to punch the screen sometimes. Not a great thing to do at work

    • KCMC

      OT, Tyler relief:
      https://youtu.be/RRkdV_xmYOI

  • Elagabalus

    Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’ve heard it a thousand times – so-called “cultural anxiety” over issues like gay marriage is what got Trump elected. Well guess what? We’re not going backwards. Fuck that shit!

  • greenmanTN

    Everyone know the way to win is to acquiesce to your enemy’s demands. The GOP compromises all the time and look where it got them!

  • FAEN

    Pandering to the rural vote gets us nowhere.

    • Archipelagos

      Does the rural vote win elections? Honest question, I have no idea about the statistical breakdown.

      • Todd20036

        Yes, but mostly because of gerrymandering.

        • Archipelagos

          Thank you for the answer!

        • The_Wretched

          and the politics of fear

  • MarkBuster

    that seems like something the bulk of this community would agree with.. not me, but a lot of you bristle at the idea of progressives and working class reclaiming the dnc.

    • Adam King

      It’s not how far left you are, is whether you understand how to form a coalition. It’s called “politics.”

  • CanuckDon

    This is what is so gawdamn maddening about the election results and the far left believing Hillary wasn’t “left” enough for their liking. Demanding everything right away and if it’s not, they showed no support….so instead of doing the mature thing and gradually making achievements, the US Left is now a number of steps behind where Obama got them. Strategy? Insight? I always thought Liberals had a leg up on those. It’s how we gained ground in Canada.

  • Gigi

    O/T + LMAO: Josh Duggar loses lawsuit against tabloid and officials who revealed his child molestation scandal
    https://www.rawstory.com/2017/10/josh-duggar-loses-lawsuit-against-tabloid-and-officials-who-revealed-his-child-molestation-scandal/

  • Stev84

    The Democrats are already pretty thourougly center-right. The idea that they are somehow too left is absurd. Only in America.

    • CJAS

      They’re center-right and have been for a quarter century.

  • Yalma Cuder-Zicci

    What is talking about? Specifically, what would be an example of too liberal?

    • Do Something Nice

      Taking an actual stand on an issue.

    • Ken M

      If you put the issues aside, and look at the methods and attitudes to work and resolve them, the is little to no difference between the right and the left. Both sides have extremists, moderates and what are called the “fakes,” even within the party. The extremists usually get more public attention. It makes both parties seem black and white with no chance for a grey. His comments are obviously aimed at those within his party. Since the GOP doesn’t listen to us any more than we listen to them.

  • kat

    Do tell us, Mr White Male Heterosexual, whose civil rights should we go soft on, so as not to upset the bigots?

    • marshlc

      White Male Heterosexual rights, of course.

      Heh, I kill me, I’m so funny…..

  • Ken M

    Far Left, or/and Far Right is not what wins elections. They simply keep the media busy along the way. Trump, and other GOP didn’t all win because the Dems were extremists. Trump was “different”, and Hillary was still not trusted by enough voters. I’m not saying she didn’t deserve to win, she got my vote. The House usually follows the Pres. in party, and the Senate was in the air. It’s the after effects that will decide the next election. If anyone needs to calm, it’s the GOP. The Dems do have to get off their asses and do something besides wait for the GOP to fuck up.

  • OdieDenCO

    the enlightenment will not be deterred!

  • Do Something Nice

    Oh fuck you, Dustbin. Playing it safe and supporting candidates like Ossoff is how we lose.

    Stand for something or get the fuck out of the way.

  • marshlc

    My feeling is that the Democratic Party in the US is already the least liberal of left leaning major parties in western democracies. I’d put it about midway between the Conservatives and the Liberals in Canadian politics, for example. There isn’t, really, a “left” in mainstream American electoral politics.

    • Publius

      American Democrats are basically Tories. As fucked up as that might be to hear, it says more about how far right the Republican Party is. Nonetheless, America’s political establishment is collectively centered and more rightward than in other countries due, in part, to our strong and cohesive national ideology that essentially codifies WASP values and capitalism.

      • The_Wretched

        “countries due, in part, to our strong and cohesive national ideology.
        “countries due, in main, to pervasive power grab of the wealthy.”

        • Publius

          Do you feel better now?

          • The_Wretched

            We aren’t traipsing down the Road to Gilead over some right-wing national ideal. It’s a deliberate effort to divert the wealth of the nation to the hands of the few. It kicked off in the 1980s under Regen in a big way. The primary tool was the ‘Southern’ (read racist) Strategy. the rubes fell for it and put oligarchic tools in power.

          • Publius

            No, that’s not a thing that explains our country’s ideology. This is a concept that is much deeper than swipes at modern right wing extremism. It’s something that’s embedded in our national collective conscience. See: Alexis de Tocqueville and his comments on Americans, comments you and everyone here would agree with.

            This article explains the thinking: https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/08/why-are-americans-so-ideologically-united/243951/

          • The_Wretched

            Noooooo. I’m not accepting an asymmetric burden.

          • Publius

            There’s no burden. It’s reading. You will agree with the article.

          • The_Wretched

            I may read it eventually but for me to fully rebut your point, I’d have to read the whole damn thing and understand it and formulate concise replies. that would take much longer than it takes to read and reply to a single comment. that time difference between 1 comment & 1 published article is a substantial burden.

            I demur on the basis of the burden. Further, I find it rude to attempt that asymmetry.

          • Publius

            If there’s a feeling of asymmetry it’s because you came on this thread — as you always do — on the attack, assuming bad faith, simply because you have discovered an opinion or perspective that deviates from your own. You have created “asymmetry” and have made this discussion more dramatic than it needs to be.

          • The_Wretched

            yeah fail Publius. I defined what I mean by asymmetric burden and to rebut you must be on point to the difference of 5 minutes vs 30 minutes. That’s objective and not me making up things. you’re just doing rhetorical ‘tar baby’ now. You shouldn’t do that since it undercuts your self-framing as a ‘high minded sophisticate*’.

            You’d have to show me you can stay on point to merit the faith you fail to show.

            *yes, i’m implying that joke.

          • Publius

            Just read the fucking article, dude. Honestly, what a fucking drama queen.

            You have wasted so much of your time being a contrarian, needlessly disagreeing with me.

          • The_Wretched

            as bush the greater said, nah gah dah it.

          • Publius

            From the article:

            In the same vein, people in the United States are struck by what divides Americans. But foreign observers often see, instead, what unites Americans. In Democracy in America, Alexis de Tocqueville wrote that he knew “of no country where there is generally less independence of thought and real freedom of debate than in America. … The majority has staked out a formidable fence around thought. Inside those limits a writer is free, but woe betide him if he dares to stray beyond them.”

          • Publius

            “Are we really saying that Americans are ideological in the sense that the Soviet and Chinese Communists were ideological? Of course not — that would be ridiculous. Americans are far more ideological. In other words, liberalism is deeper-rooted and more universally accepted in the United States than communism was across the seas.”

            https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/08/why-are-americans-so-ideologically-united/243951/

          • The_Wretched

            And yet peeps vote against interest (liberalism) so there’s more to the story.

          • Publius

            WDYM vote against interest? Their own interests?

          • Publius

            “The Soviet and Chinese Communists imposed a communist ideology on top of pre-existing nationalist identities. During the 1980s and 1990s, it proved fairly easy for Russians and Chinese to abandon Communism and embrace the free market.

            But America’s ideology is its identity, and would be incredibly difficult to cast off. Russians without Communism are still Russians. Americans without liberalism have no idea who they are.”

            https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/08/why-are-americans-so-ideologically-united/243951/

          • The_Wretched

            Thanks for the digest! I half agree. The problem with that analysis is the driving force is the media as lapdogs of the oligarchs. American ideology isn’t a static and objective force, it’s a shaped and pushed ideology with guardrails from the media.

        • Cipher

          Wait now… Isn’t that a restatement, not a change of the original text/thought? America’s national ideology is…. Yes, indeed!

          • The_Wretched

            I didn’t want to agree exactly but rather make plain Publius’s framing / message warping. Framing is everything in political debates.

          • Publius

            Nobody is warping anything. You’re paranoid. You come on here speaking a language of political one-liners, and I’m here trying to discuss concepts that are more complicated than those, concepts that don’t sound as provocative.

          • The_Wretched

            I actually find myself rather liking you. You’re really skillful on how you screw things up. It’s like a walk down a lovely path in a garden until suddenly you realize you’ve left Kansas for Brownbackistan.

          • Publius

            Thereyago, one liners. This is the difference, I guess, between discussing politics and political science. You’re on a plane where you’re interested in communicating in this language of politicized catchphrases and cheap swipes, and I’m interested in discussing substance. There are a few guys here who are the same, and we have some great debates/chats. Others, like you, follow me around to monitor my comments.

            You’re like those middle-aged creepy white guys who follow me around in a bar, breathing heavily and winking at me because I’m young and Latino. It’s fucking weird. Back it up.

          • The_Wretched

            I’d be a fool to play your game. It’s quite the conceit that you pretend decency since the outcome of all of your arguments is a worse rule set that maximizes harms to everyone (except the oligarchs / wealth sponge elites). This is also why I don’t think you’re morally entitled to drive people along your pretty path.

            ” I’m interested in discussing substance” Self serving statements are $1.50 for a pack at the discount store.

            “You’re like those middle-aged creepy white guys” And going for the emotive dismissal doesn’t work on me either. You don’t like that your arguments fail quickly when the borked assumptions you bake into the premises (begged all the questions) are brought to light.

          • Publius

            You’ve already lost because you’re both a fool and you’re playing this game. You’re predictable.

            You follow me around, creeping on me, because you have a problem with me, not my ideas, and not the seriousness with which I present many of them.

            You have made a judgment about who I am, and from there it has dictated what you think of what I say. Nobody needs a lecture on sound logical reasoning from someone who reacts to arguments exclusively on an ad hominem basis.

            You’re still creepy.

          • The_Wretched

            “You’re and exclusive creepy dude and stop using ad hom”

            Did I get you right? That’d be you doing an ad hom while decrying an ad hom? clean hands bro.

    • Distingué Traces

      And yet, the only exception to the general downward trend in the Democratic party’s fortunes — Obama — ran a boldly progressive campaign to a landslide victory.

      The way forward for the Democrats is perfectly clear. The old guard just doesn’t want to do it.

  • Michael White

    Standing up for the working person, racial equality, marriage equality, a living wage, good inexpensive education are too liberal? Bullshit. Time to primary the a$$hole. Diane Feinstien is a good example of what needs to happen to these old fucks.

  • Rex

    Please, just find a candidate that’s not completely bonkers, a sexual perv, or a narcissistic nutjob. Who cares about public service and isn’t as old as dirt.

  • Paula

    I worry about this attitude. If we go his way, the righties will become bolder. How long before the ordinary citizens start to embrace fascism?

    • medaka

      How long? Yesterday?

      • Gerry Fisher

        Yep. 🙁

  • skyweaver

    Fascinating to hear the word “values”, Dick. We’ve been lectured for literally decades from the Republicans about “values” and how they seem to have a corner on them. Their current values include denigrating anyone who isn’t white, straight and Christian. Those values are terrible and limiting and expressly go against why this country is great. We have values too. Grow a pair and get a megaphone and talk about how our values are better

  • Dagoril

    Oh for fuck’s sake.

  • Ken M

    The Dems need a candidate that will offer voters more than a “lesser of 2 evils” option . The American people are tired of that. Corny as it may sound, the people do enjoy a candidate they can actually like and relate to. That will get them back in line to vote.

    • joe ho

      You’ve got it all wrong. Most Republicans detested Trump. But they have tribal loyalty and will vote for anyone to keep the other party out of office.

      Dems lack tribal loyalty. If their feelings are hurt or if their candidate doesn’t meet purity tests, then they sit out the election–or worse, actively sabotage–like the Bernie or Busters and the Green Partiers.

      The GOP understand that the universe doesn’t owe anyone a cnadidate that makes them feel tingly all over.
      As far-left icon Chomsky (who dislikes Clinton) said, liberals who didn’t vote for Clinton made a very bad mistake. That the lesser of two evils really is less evil.

      The GOP understands this. By your comment you show that the liberal electorate does not. Having that kind of immature and undisciplined attitude to voting (that you are owed a messianic, transformative, awe-inspiring candidate) is precisely why the GOP has more political power than it deserves. They will eat their own vomit before they let a Dem take or keep power. That’s the attitude the left needs to adopt to be successful.

      It’s a change of attitude among liberal voters that is needed–turn out and vote in every election and in the general election, vote blue no matter who.

      • easygoingmister

        I don’t think Ken M has it “all wrong”. I think he brings up an important point in a sea of points to consider. I do agree with you that when it comes down to the general election “vote blue no matter who”.

        • joe ho

          Having a candidate who is skilled in inspiring oratory is certainly a plus, but it is the infantile, undisciplined voting behavior of liberals that makes it so hard for the democrats to get and maintain power.

          Liberals don’t turn out for the unsexy midterm elections–much less for local school board elections. That turns over state governments and the House to GOP control. And in presidential years, if they’re not excited and in love with the candidate they don’t show up in sufficient numbers. It’s that kind of childish, unpragmatic understanding of the voting process that needs to be changed.

          That the lesser of two evils really is less evil is the lesson in reality that they need to understand. It’s the DNC’s responsiblity to change that culture.

  • joe ho

    He’s right.

    The US is not going to be turning into a Brocialist workers’ paradise.

    It’s the same old story. After 2 terms of Democratic rule, the far-left becomes greedy, forgetting just how bad it can get under the GOP. So they chant the mindless “both parties are the same” garbage and do what they can to weaken the centrist candidate. They’re self-defeating scum.

    The only way the far-left gets some of his agenda passed into law is to work with the Democrats. The Green Party is not going to have a viable presidential candidate in the foreseeable future. It is a joke of a party. Instead of helping out in difficult third-term elections, it prefers to sabotage. 2000. 2016. So, instead of getting some of its goals realized, it prefers to erase past progress.

  • TheManicMechanic

    Lets crow about the second amendment, start speaking against human rights and work entirely for the rich. That will guarantee votes.

  • Joe in PA

    Didn’t the dems just lose an election because of the center candidate? Hmmmm?

    • Adam King

      No. She got 3 million more votes. The election was rigged.

      • Scott MB

        The Electoral College was the rig. Get rid of it and let the candidates go head to head in a popular vote! See how well Retugs do then. Gerrymandering will have no affect.

    • Cipher

      On one hand, she could be branded as the “center” candidate. On the other hand, she was a woman, which, given where this country is on sexism, was a radical idea.

  • Dagoril

    Lady Olenna needs to take Dick on a walk through the Conspiracy Garden…

  • Talisman

    Part of the reason that the dumpster was elected is because the repuglicants cheated through voter suppression and gerrymandering.

    • Scott MB

      Those are the only ways they know they can win. Like in Michigan, Detroit usually decides whether the state votes in a Dem or Rethug. Same as here in New York state, NYC decides the whole state.

      If they went head to head in a true popular vote, which is what it should be, Rethugs would rarely win anything. Dems out number them. The Electoral Colleges is antiquated and no longer serves the purpose it was intended for, it needs to go. That should be first priority when we have a Dem lead government or we at least have a veto proof majority.

      • Bj Lincoln

        Funny how nothing has been said or done to the Electoral College since they were the ones who put the moron in office. There are just over 500 members and I don’t think it is that far fetched to think they were bribed or heavily influenced.

    • CJAS

      All that and the Dem was still 2.9M votes to the better. He needs some perspective.

  • PickyPecker
  • Do Something Nice

    As for the fake Democrats who say ‘we are a big enough tent to support anti-abortion and anti-gay candidates,’ fuck you guys. There is now a Democrat running for the Georgia state senate who is anti-gay and a rabid misogynist. If the Democrats send him $1 of support they will NEVER see another penny from me. I don’t give a shit about their strategies because a) look where they got us and b) I didn’t support Democrats for the last 30 years to have them throw everyone under the bus for ‘strategies,’

    https://thegavoice.com/state-senate-candidates-anti-gay-misogynistic-facebook-posts-uncovered-2/

    • TimCA

      I know nothing about him. He has published an apology and states that these are not his true feelings nor are those statements reflective how he would vote. Clearly a better job must be done when vetting candidates. But for me personally the question would be if I lived there, would Georgia and the political issues I care about be better advanced by this Democrat winning or by his (presumably even more conservative Republican) opponent winning? Those would be my personal criteria if I were a resident and voting in this race.

      Excerpt of candidate Jaha Howard’s statement:

      “In an effort to clarify my political positions and how I will vote on these issues.
      1. I believe we must protect equal rights for the LGBTQ community across the board, including marriage equality and gay adoption. I will oppose any and every effort to discriminate against anyone because of who they love, including any so-called “religious freedom” bills.
      2. I believe we must protect a woman’s right to choose and will vote against any effort to impede access to the full range of reproductive health services. Women must have full autonomy over the decisions they make about their bodies.”

      For those interested, more of his comments about this issue can be found at his campaign page via the following link
      http://www.jahahoward.com/

      • Do Something Nice

        Now that he was busted with his social media posts he apologizes. Sorry, I have to believe there are better candidates to support. This is the equivalent of Weinstein going to a sex addiction clinic. Too late for that.

        • TimCA

          Unfortunately with less than 3 weeks left before the election are there any better, electable candidates on the ballot?

          • Do Something Nice

            Supporting questionable candidates is not how we win elections. Look what happened to Ossoff.

          • TimCA

            As I said earlier we need to do a better job at vetting. But from my perspective the choices in this situation are now limited exclusively to what’s currently on the ballot. I’d pull the lever in this situation for whomever would be the least destructive for the issues I care about. But almost universally those individuals have a D next to their name.

  • shellback

    The American people didn’t elect the Nazi, Russia did.

  • boatboy_srq

    Oh, horrors! Becoming too librul might upset MAGAts who vote, and make them vote for someone else!

    Does Durbin not understand that he’s describing a voting bloc that has no qualms (and more than a few excited palpitations) about upsetting the Left than the Left could ever have the other way? LET THEM get upset: it’s not as if they would ever be happy with anything less than 100% of their agenda anyeay.

  • Scott MB

    What needs to happen is we get some Dems elected that havent been neutered, yes that term is used for both male and female. The Dem party for decades has been going down hill. Sorry, but there is such a thing as being too politically correct. Dems need to learn to say fuck that this is what is going to hapoen and tough if you don’t like it, this is what needs to happen. Stand up to the Rethugs and the “christian” right, stop letting them push Dems around. Bill Maher has been saying this for years and I agree. Grow a pair Dems before its too late!

    • UrsusArctos 🐻

      The political correctness isn’t what’s killing off Democrats. It’s going from governing to focusing on incumbency protection and keeping corporate masters happy.

  • jimbo65

    Can’t believe that “liberal “is such a dirty word that the masses would actually be content to keep the malcontent in office. The GOP have mastered the dark art of fucking people over while convincing rubes that the liberals are the ones doing the hard pounding.

    • joe ho

      And the problem is that liberals for the most part don’t attack back.

      They could easily turn “conservative” into a dirty word and focus anger, fear, and hatred on the GOP. But they don’t have the GOP’s killer instinct for politics. So they lose.

      • Tread

        We’ve been conditioned that “when they go low, we go high.” I love Michelle Obama, but that advice is so out of touch with what needs to happen. It’s that type of thinking that has us where we currently are. How bad do we want to kick these motherfuckers out of office? How hard and dirty are we willing to fight to get them out? We keep bringing books to a gun fight.

  • Joseph Miceli

    Corporate Democrats, always willing to throw away their ideals at the drop of a hat so they can get elected to … maintain the status quo.
    Obama got elected for a reason. George Bush was a disaster and the economy was melting down and African Americans were mobilized like never before. Trump is creating a similar perfect storm where he has disgraced the presidency and his party is divided.
    Now is not the time for fear, just because corporate Dems are scared of real Progressives, now is the time to push OUR agenda through! Stick with the party platform and lets take America back!

    • Do Something Nice

      When Obama got elected in 2008, he was seen as a ‘far left’ candidate, even by Clinton supporters.

      • Adam King

        Anyone who ever saw Obama as “far left” was stupid or ignorant. (Or rendered irrational by the color of his skin.)

        • Joseph Miceli

          Sigh. I’m talking about getting someone elected. I didn’t say he was Bernie Sanders.
          Thank you for calling me stupid and/or ignorant (or a racist.) Charming. I bet you get LOT’S of potential allies and friends after you are done attacking them.

        • Do Something Nice

          His 2008 campaign was pretty far to the left and that is why he got my enthusiastic vote. But his presidency was mostly center, center-right, except for a few issues.

        • danolgb

          Remember how he said in 2008 the exact same thing about gay marriage that Hillary said back in 2004? That was fine, but Hillary was pilloried 12 years later for it?

      • Joseph Miceli

        Perhaps…but he was still transformative. When was the last time we saw a black politician stand up in a black church and chastise them for the way they treated gays? Obama was every bit as threatening to the status quo, otherwise there’d have been no backlash, certainly not the one he endured for eight years.

        • Do Something Nice

          My point is that those see as being too far left do get elected.

          • Joseph Miceli

            Well, we aren’t arguing. I agree.

    • Ragnar Lothbrok

      Absolutely right ! But ” they ” seem to be the ones that are always out there pushing their ” safety ” memes.

      • Joseph Miceli

        To protect their bank accounts and their seats. They wouldn’t know leadership if it bit them on the ass.

    • The_Wretched

      I’d like to upvote but I’m half nervous that you’re doing the same as the russian ads on facebook – supporting division and hard lining on the margin.

      • UrsusArctos 🐻

        I don’t read it that way. A LOT of us think this is the answer, but will NOT sit out elections if the candidate isn’t perfect or vote against common sense. As points to start the conversation, they seem pretty much on point to me. The idea isn’t to divide or insist on “purity”, it’s a call to stop the BS and afflict the comfortable a bit. Letting Durbin quit before we start is and has been a failing strategy.

      • Joseph Miceli

        How can I be supporting division when I’m asking recalcitrant bankster Dems to hold to their own frikken party platform? It’s THEIR platform!!!
        Let me be perfectly clear: Never vote Republican. Never vote independent when they are running against a Dem. Never stay home. Always vote Dem…but hold Dems accountable! Just cause that bitch Blanche Lincoln or that other bitch Joe Liebermann called themselves Dems doesn’t mean they get a free pass to piss on us and tell us its raining.

  • Ben in Oakland

    Leonard Pitts, a journalist I respect, wrote yesterday that the dems need to move left.
    Maybe the problem is thinking that left or right has an answer in ideology, rather than facts.

  • Ragnar Lothbrok

    STFU !!! SO sick of Blue Dogs.

    #NotHelping

  • GayOldLady

    The question becomes, WHAT do you consider too far left?
    1. DACA and just immigration reform
    2. The right of women to make their own decisions regarding their OWN bodies
    3. The right of LGBT people to enjoy the same protections and social contracts as other Americans
    4. The right of people of color to enjoy all the benefits of a free society, including respect and parity in the law, in housing and in the work place.
    5. The right to FREEDOM FROM RELIGION
    6. The right to reasonable gun control that requires background checks. The removal of weapons of war and all ammunition and armaments that turn otherwise ordinary firearms into weapons of war, from citizens who aren’t military or specialized law enforcement units.
    7. The right to affordable healthcare that is subsidized through our tax collection system or Medicare for all.
    8. The right of Native Americans to claim title to their ancestral lands and all of the resources of those lands.
    9. The right of people to expect a citizen subsidized Education System, free from Religion and the prejudices that are propagated by religion.

    And those are just starters.

    • Ken M

      I know you know better. It’s not FREEDOM FROM, IT’S FREEDOM OF. If you want a freedom FROM, there is nothing stopping YOU from doing so.

      • GayOldLady

        Oh, my bad, I’ll fix it. TY!

      • GayOldLady

        If you notice I got in right in #5. Old, slow mind!

      • William

        Freedom FROM and Freedom OF are two distinct and valid points.
        Government agencies should not be promoting any religion.

    • Cipher

      Love this list!

    • Bad Tom

      0. Effective action on climate change.

      • Cipher

        Respect for the planet and our environment for its own sake.

    • Skokieguy [Larry]

      You said it so well. What Democratic voters want is not ‘extreme’ is reasonable and polls have showed over and over that the vast majority is in agreement.

      What the Dems need to do is start appealing to emotions, not policy wonks. On top of gerrymandering and voter suppression, the Republicans are masters at messaging and appealing to emotions, not reason.

    • The_Wretched

      ^yep

    • BJORN RAGNVALDR

      As per her usual, the Notorious G.O.L. is on point!

    • KevInPDX

      ^ This! Thank you! I said similar in my head when I read the above post.

    • Duh-David

      GayOldLady for Congress.

      • GayOldLady

        I’m way too old for Congress! But thank you.

        • Duh-David

          Have you seen Congress?

          I just really need a new sign for my front yard. “GayOldLady for Congress.”

          And I’m older than you.

          • GayOldLady

            Yep, I watch CSPAN regularly. And I’m in my 70’s David. I believe that’s far too old to start a new career. 🙂

          • Cipher

            Nope.

        • lileasy

          Your head’s not too old, madam.

          • GayOldLady

            Thanks for the kind words, but I’m at that age where my head could be too old at any moment. There was a time when I aspired to such goals, but in my day there was no way for a lesbian to run for office and win. What would have happened is that I would have lost my kids and maybe my job and my home. I was an advocate for our Civil Rights very early on, but I didn’t live in SF, CA I lived in Nashville, TN and I wanted to at least live long enough to see my children grown. Two are in their 50’s and one in their late 40’s. So at least I got that done.

          • Adam King

            I love you.

          • Cipher

            Impressive! Seriously, look at the corpses they wheel in to vote in Congress. You have people who apparently need Alzheimer’s meds Not to mention the brain dead GOP “Youth”.

            But again, the work you did laid the groundwork for where we are today. Thanks.

    • Randy503

      Single payer health insurance — conservatives will LOVE it once they get it. Call it Trumpcare and let him take the credit — I don’t care.

      • GayOldLady

        I don’t care who gets the credit either. I was an advocate of/for SPUHC when the ACA passed and watched many of the hearings. The Dems actually believed if they dropped Medicare for All and allowed the GOP to massage their work product that they’d get some GOP votes. In the end they didn’t get a single GOP vote even though the final product had 188 Republican Amendments.

    • Randy503

      Downsize banks and any corporation so that they are no longer too big to fail. Even conservatives hate wall street, and this is something we can all bind together on.

    • Charles Nelson

      Most White Americans tend to see those nine factors as the reason they are voting Republican.

      • Distingué Traces

        I don’t think the facts support that.

        Many working class white Americans support progressive policies as ideas. Remember the “Bernie bro” — and remember too that many of them quickly became Trump bros when Clinton was nominated.

        Going further back, I remember the incredible frustration of 2004, when several young men I knew — all liberals in outlook and behavior — voted for Bush out of a nebulous sense of cultural loyalty that proved stronger than their moral principles.

        That, not policy, is the Democrats’ handicap — we’ve been perceived as culturally other to the rural white working class at least since I was a child, and now we are perceived as racially other as well.

        • The_Wretched

          “r too that many of them quickly became Trump bros”

          ~ 6% when I went looking last time. It wasn’t a huge % or absolute number.

          • Distingué Traces

            A little more than five percent overlap seems to me like a significant minority given that the candidates were diametric opposites on every question of policy.

          • The_Wretched

            5% is the idiot pool. hell, ~ 17% of every group is downright stupid.

          • Distingué Traces

            About 17%, eh? Okay, I’ll defer to your research.

            It’s very easy to dismiss groups of people as stupid — and it may very well be true. I’m inclined myself to think of most Trump voters as perhaps not naturally dumb but allowing irrational responses to silence whatever intelligence they have.

            But, what earthly good does does making that judgement do me? Their candidate won. Categorizing someone as stupid does not, in politics, mean that you get to ignore the importance of their vote.

          • The_Wretched

            My point is about the futility of trying to move recalcitrant fringes. So far as that effort is being made, it needs to be sensitive to the nature of the audience and tuned accordingly. The bernie supporters who jumped to trump weren’t motivated by enlightened self interest. They were moved by planting a flag against (something) and rallying to that flag.

          • Distingué Traces

            Well, sure — that’s kind of what I said above.

            Many vote based on cultural/regional/class-ethnic[?] group identity rather than principle, and that’s what put Trump in office — not that white people are a somehow as a race opposed to progressive ideas like public education and reproductive freedom as “Charles Nelson” was saying.

    • MichaelJ

      Protecting voting rights, which people have long fought for and died for.

    • William

      Energy independence, no importing foreign oil.

      • GayOldLady

        Solar & Wind.

        • JCF

          And Geothermal.

    • BoyLovesDaddy

      THIS!!

  • Ninja0980

    In other words, drop the identity politics aka POC, LGBT voters and women need to shut up.
    When will folks point out Republicans do “identity politics” all the time?

    • UrsusArctos 🐻

      Drop the “economic fairness” divisiveness as well. Oh! Don’t forget to soft-pedal never ending war. Wait! We have to backtrack on privacy and property rights too! /snark

  • Lars Littlefield

    Ooooooooh, Trump is speaking right now on the TV machine.

    • Ken M

      Is it regarding the SC governor promotion?

      • Lars Littlefield

        He was holding a cabinet meeting where the main topic was bashing Democrats.

  • justme

    Well you can always just stay home like 2010 and 2014.. After all.. The parties are just the same and it doesn’t matter if you vote “D” or “R” cuz both sides do it…

    / s

    • Todd20036

      Not that there is anything wrong with doing it from both sides…

  • LSMC1987

    Not really sure what he means. When you look at American’s opinions, you see support for LGB and T rights and protections by majorities. You see healthcare as a right and not a privilege. You see support for marriage equality, pot support, sensible gun laws.

    What exactly Durbin are you talking about? What policies? Be specific, this generic crap don’t work.

    • BobSF_94117

      But don’t you see? We have to sensitive to their sensitivities even if the only people who say they have them is Fox News…

    • Octoberfurst

      He is under the illusion that the Dems can win the redneck vote away from the conservatives. Ain’t never gonna happen so don’t even try!

      • UrsusArctos 🐻

        Actually they could win a LOT of “redneck” votes by making it clear that democrats want to stop the 1% from screwing them. Instead the current top echelon is interested in incumbent protection only.

  • Ninja0980

    How about we elect Democrats that actually fight for things like the courts etc then?
    You complained about the Federalist Society all the time Durbin but when you were number three in the Senate in the majority, you and Leahy played nice and ensured our courts be filled with folks like them under a Republican.

  • Skokieguy [Larry]

    What is “too” liberal? Thinking all Americans should have equal rights, opportunities and protections? Fuck you.

    • Tomcat

      Allowing Refugees is starting to be the kiss of death to the left EVERYWHERE. Sucks that caring for people is hated so much.

  • Harveyrabbit

    Fuck You Dick. Vichy Democrat.

  • Ragnar Lothbrok
    • The_Wretched

      So it’ll happen again and the establisment goes, ‘meh’.

  • Steve Smith

    Take a lesson from other centre-left parties. You need a clear message that you will change things, and very much to the advantage of those who have been left behind in the great greed race. Social democracy, or a return to common decency. Then you’ll get the votes. No more old white straight men in suits telling you what to do, while simultaneously stealing your future.

  • Ken M

    “Over do it by acting too liberal.” That definitely needs some clarifying.

    • McSwagg

      it’s kind of like “It’s OK to be gay as long as you don’t act too gay.” We’ve all seen this before.

  • margaretpoa

    I submit that it’s conseradems, not liberals who have jettisoned our values.

  • MikeBx2

    If “more moderate” people will choose the party of bigotry over the party of inclusion, because they “disagree with some parts of the Democratic platform”, then good riddance.

  • JackFknTwist

    An old man with old ideas; he just doesn’t get the fact that a young generation id going to sweep him away with his timorous little quakings.

    • Lazycrockett

      That really depends on if the young generation go vote cause the old one sure the hell does.

      • Tread

        Everyone keeps harping on the younger generation for not voting, but where’s the energy in getting them out to the polls?

        • Ken M

          They live on the internet. If either party, an I’m not sure they do, wants their vote, they need to go there to gain their interest and support. They don’t see candidates in the streets.

          • Tread

            They also have to be candidates that speak to their needs. A ton of younger people need help with finding paying jobs, paying off college debt, finding homes, etc. Bernie made all those promises without having any way of delivering on them, but he understood their concerns (and knew how to manipulate them).

          • The_Wretched

            If we can “pay” for the Bush the Lesser’s tax cuts and wars, we can afford healthcare for all and education for all. Countries with half our GDP per capita can afford it.

    • GayOldLady

      Don’t make it entirely about being old, it’s about being unafraid. Bernie is 76 years old.

      • Lazycrockett

        and even after 70 some years he has no idea how to pass any of it.

        • GayOldLady

          I agree, Bernie hasn’t managed to create any alliances during his time in Congress, in either body. Most of things that need to be done are things that Democrats have been wanting for years, but there are some Dems, like Durbin, that think you have to go after the non-existent middle of the road people to stay in power. I disagree. I think you have to have plans that help people to have a better life to stay in power.

          • Lazycrockett

            You have to bring the middle and the right along with you if you want a stable progression to the left. If you don’t you will be getting a constant knee jerk reaction every time the GOP/DEM gain control.

          • UrsusArctos 🐻

            A LOT of the “middle” will support you if you present yourself with good ideas, rather than “not the other side”, even if some of those ideas are farther left than they claim to like. As in “ACA is OK, but Obamacare sucks”. That formula plays into the “they’re both the same” framing.

          • Brian Burleson

            Yup, what she said x 100!

          • UrsusArctos 🐻

            Durbin is/was a Yankee Blue Dog, who thinks pleasing corporate masters is his job. Those days are gone. The Koch brothers found out GOPers were cheaper to buy and stupider (thus willing to do their bidding). His kind will fall to a true GOPer eventually. If Democrats want wallets opened and votes given they need to go back to their pre-Clinton/3rd Way era roots.

          • Cipher

            Remember when Reid arranged for him to skipped over in favor of Chuck Schumer- all of the outcries from the leftest of the left that the party was elevating Mr. Wall Street over the liberal midwesterner?

          • UrsusArctos 🐻

            Not from me. Neither was going to move things in a positive direction. A corporatist is a corporatist. I came of voting age as the Blue Dogs like Durbin began to rise with Bill Clinton, Billy Tauzin, Ray Mabus and others. They felt staying in power by doing politics as GOP-lite was the answer, leading to our current decimated bench of candidates who cannot threaten the status quo. I’ll vote Democratic (IF I even have a candidate to vote for), but I am saddened and unhappy with the direction my party has gone. That things have shifted so far right Durbin is considered “liberal” is insight on how the GOP has reframed left/right/centrist. Hell St Ronnie would be a flaming libtard to a lot of GOPers.
            Under Reid/Pelosi you had to take care of donors first, then make token gestures to progressives and the shrinking base that was turned off by these moves. Durbin (and a lot of the current leadership) is cut from the same cloth. Sure they strengthened the party in “safe” areas, but in walking away from anywhere else they all but guaranteed the Electoral College train wreck we just got.

        • The_Wretched

          Bernie sucks as a politician. I’ve been saying that for as long as I’ve posted here. His ideas and policies are still low hanging fruit that the Dems should have picked long ago.

      • Ninja0980

        And is using the same identity politics dog whistle so many on the right and folks like Durbin are too.

        • Tread

          Yep. So tired as Bernie being touted as the savior of all liberals. His ideas are not new and he has not done one thing to get any of them from his lips to action.

    • Natty Enquirer

      argumentum ad novitatem

    • Treant

      Nope. By the time your generation votes in appreciable percentages, they’ll also be having kids, buying homes, and, consequently, becoming more economically conservative.

      Social values will start to take hold–but not until you hold the reigns of power in large numbers. Call it 40 more years.

      • Ross

        I am sixty, and more liberal than I was at twenty.

        • Treant

          There are always exceptions, and I would expect that LBGT folks would tend to be one.

          But statistically, every generation was supposed to be the one that fixed in a liberal viewpoint forever. And it never happens–they get more conservative as they age.

      • JackFknTwist

        I hope you’re wrong’ I think the pace of change will be sweeping.
        From the way things are going in the UK and France and Germany I believe the young people are waking up to the BS of the establishment.

        • Treant

          Alas, if you look at the voting rates for 2016, they were pretty much normal (which means abysmal). The Primaries didn’t feature high turnouts, either. I’m one hundred percent certain that most Dem voters will sit on their asses in November as well, but the Republicans are so demoralized that we’ll still pick up positions.

  • Octoberfurst

    Someone PLEASE explain to me why it is perfectly acceptable that Republicans can run the most fire-breathing, hateful right-wingers for office but we have to be “moderate” to win votes? Really? You never hear a conservative say of a Teatard politician –“He’s too right-wing!” Nope, for them the more right-wing the better and it gets their base out in droves!
    I HATE this insipid view that Durbin and others put forth! Yeah being “Republican-lite” works so well doesn’t it? Put a tepid, wishy-washy Democrat as your candidate and watch our base yawn. We need fighters out there who will push an unapologetic progressive agenda! Yes on gay rights! Yes on the environment! Yes on abortion rights! Yes on a raise to the minimum wage! And so on. Stop trying to appeal to the so-called “moderate” voter. What does that even mean– “moderate”? Does it mean they are only a little bit prejudice against gays? No wonder we keep losing elections.

  • Irish856

    Agreed.

    In order for Dems to pick up some center/right republicans, we nee to not shove things down their throats. They will be deciding between extreme right republicans and hopefully NOT too extreme left Democrats. They may stay with the republican candidate.

    • Do Something Nice

      I’m going to scream this at you: WE DON’T NEED REPUBLICANS. The majority of voters are neither Democrat or Republican – 38% are ‘independents’ and the majority of them voted for Trump because they were voting against the establishment.

      • joe ho

        nah. They shifted to Trump in the final week because of the Comey letter. They, like the far-left, were worn down and played by Putin and Wikileaks.

        https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/

      • Irish856

        no need to scream… I agree with you. And that 38% is going to vote for who is more in the center… not for the extreme left. So if the Dem is extreme left and the Rep is center right, more of that 38% are going to vote for the Rep. We will lose if that happens.

        • The_Wretched

          One case out of many. See the rainbow of lineups and don’t focus on just one of the many cases.

        • Do Something Nice

          They voted for Trump – are you saying he was in the center? In 2008 they voted for Obama, whose campaign was borderline leftist.

          • Irish856

            Trump it a nerve with white men, who see their group losing power. Trump was anti-immigrant (meaning anti Hispanic). Hillary also scared many white men. We need to get those guys back.
            If the same Black voters who came out in 2008 and 2012, came out in 2016, we would not be in this mess.

        • Keroleen

          Not necessarily. There are, like me, left-wing Independents who couldn’t be paid to vote Republican, no matter how ‘center’ they’re pretending to be. I know you said “more” and not “all”, but I’m just a little worn down by the whole “Independent = closet Rep” narrative.

          • Irish856

            I m Independent and normally vote Dem. But if it were Bernie and Kasich, I “might” have voted for Kasich.

    • The_Wretched

      wait wut?

      Chasing ‘center/right’ republicans does not win elections. We see that in the steady erosion of the Dem party over the last nearly 40 years now.

      Worse, it loses liberals since you’re no longer supporting the citizens. See Gay Old Lady’s post for a list of the issues that count and are getting put to the side by the Dems.

      • Irish856

        OK… Then we need the center left Dems in swing districts who voted for trump and others. The point is… many voters in the middle go back and forth between parties. if the extremist in 2018 is a Dem in a swing district and the Rep is a moderate, then many center folks will vote for the Rep.

        • The_Wretched

          There are no republican moderates. Some get the lable but as recently as 20 years ago they would have been labeled fringe-conservatives. principled Dems who are clearly liberal can and do win elections. I’m thinking of Frankin, Warren and Wellstone.

          Dems win when they stand for something. We’ve seen systemic denial of FEDDEM funds to those candidates since the election of 2016.

  • Ish

    Exactly why the Democrats are fully as noxious as Republicans. Here is how it works:
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3145117addc8be5efc26a4be611fd69dd792aa98c8856b57d226968bddf8b492.png

    • Tomcat

      You left out the SO CALLED INDEPENDENTS.

    • TimCA

      So says the man who, along with literally less than 3000 people across the entire country, voted for Mimi Soltysik and Angela Walker of the Socialist Party USA.

      • Ish

        There’s nothing you can say to make me regret my decision to sit out the “choice” between two repulsive individuals and their egregious policies. My graphic explains why.

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/be311ce7eea18ab59a2cca89f5f8459fb22a41b7639a829c542c0b14a492bf5e.jpg

        • The_Wretched

          as politicians take photos with pretty much all big donors, these one off pics don’t fairly represent approval, knowledge or friendship.

          • Ish

            LOL. Hey nothing matters at all!

            And I am not into Hollywood gossip and even I knew he was an abusive pig. That she didn’t know, beggars belief.

          • The_Wretched

            not the point

        • TimCA

          I found your first comment warning of the dangers of moderation not slightly ironic from a man who characterizes revolutionary overthrow as his preferred means of political engagement (your 2008 flirtation with liberal democracy and vote for Obama not withstanding).

          As to your explanatory graphic, you assume Clinton knew about Weinstein’s ongoing behavior. I counter your graphic with one much more disturbing. These people aren’t just running a movie studio. They’re running our government.

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b8909b0c8e27622b5afae7a11e343f1e4053435b4db02d0e9dbc5a3c300d1501.jpg

          • Ish

            Sure. A horrifying picture. Shall I counter with a picture of Hillary embracing the same mass murderer Henry Kissinger who Trump recently sought for advice? Seriously, because Trump is awful doesn’t make HRC and her horrible party good. That’s the point in the first place.

          • TimCA

            Actually the point is that the two parties and the policies they promote are not equivalent. There are millions of people in this country, and even more around the world, who are going to be irreparably harmed by the Trump administration who would not have been under a Clinton one. HRC may not be good (and I’m not arguing she is or isn’t), but she and her party is substantially better than the alternative!

  • Xiao Ai: The Social Gadfly

    This is why I, and why many of the youth voters, don’t, and won’t support Democratic nominees. This isn’t about their “electability”, it’s about doing the right thing and Democrats seem to fail on this more often than not. Durbin should be ousted.Pelosi, ousted, Feinstein ousted,… This is not our country any more, it’s the Rights. There is no such thing as a Moderate either, just greedy, self-centered, capitalists. The longer it takes for you status quo LGBTs and others to get on board with the youth, the longer all of this will drag out. You’re not progressives, you’re status quo.

    • Treant

      And that’s why Democrats ignore you–you aren’t reliable support anyway. It becomes a catch-22 but, in this instance, the balance of power is not toward the “no” voter and you simply get marginalized.

      That feeds back into your no vote, which decreases your support, which marginalizes you even more.

      The argument is, “They’ll listen,” but statistically, your numbers are few, your power is zilch, and you’ve always existed (or, why the Green Party and some others occasionally got some votes). You’ll either need a valid coalition or be content with remaining an unconsidered edge case.

      • Ken M

        Is the “Blue Wolf” through the holidays?

      • Xiao Ai: The Social Gadfly

        Statistically, you have the ability to increase those statistics to do the right thing instead of massaging that dead horse.

        You blame others, whom you claim have no power, for stealing the votes of your candidate. And, you do that rather than switch to support the real left. As I pointed to earlier, your priorities, don’t match your liberal dogma. Just self centeredness. I’m fighting for all of us. Not just myself. If it takes more effort on my part, if I’m fighting a losing battle even, in my heart I know I’m doing the right thing.

        I was willing to change, and did over the decades. I played it your way too long. I’m going back to my roots.

        • Treant

          Alas, when you call me self-centered, I stop listening. The tendency does tend to run through the far left, and I’m forced to assume that they like being marginal due to the fact that the messaging is absolutely terrible. It’s not a group I want to join–and one of the reasons I detested the Bernie Bros.

          Statistically speaking, you’re going to have to deal with the Durbins of this world as many areas simply won’t support a far left candidate. Not in your lifetime. And if you try to go much to the left of Manchin in West Virginia, you can enjoy your purity–and the new Republican Senator from WV who will replace the Democrat.

          The problem, frankly, isn’t my self-centeredness; it your inability to compromise to maintain a majority. To return the rhetoric from above, enjoy losing. I’m midrange-left and I find the far left tedious, banal, and ignorant.

          • Xiao Ai: The Social Gadfly

            I’ll apologize for that, I know that you aren’t Treant.

            But, it’s not going to be our world much longer anyway. And the kids still have their idealism, and a real sense of right and wrong. We all need to be focused more on supporting everyone, every time. Not just politicians who ‘ve not really supported all of us in our time of need.

            A last note, I don’t have purity tests or I’d never have voted for Hillary in the end but, I did. For the most part, she did demonstrate care for all.

          • Treant

            Speak for yourself, I got thirty good years left.

            In my family, that could very well be 55, we do reach 100 with fair regularity.

          • Xiao Ai: The Social Gadfly

            Mine did until healthcare started getting in the way, and they felt that eating regularly was more important than seeing doctors and dealing with the cost. Had a great, great uncle who lived to 103. He got tired of living when everyone he knew was dead. He hung himself in the barn.

    • joe ho

      The only way you’ll get any of agenda enacted is to work within the DNC. Third parties in the USA are not viable.

      You folks are self-destructive. Instead of working for realizable, incremental progressive change, you prefer to blow things up and get nothing, except setting your causes back for 30 years. Which is what you did in 2000 and 2016. The DNC platform in 2016 was the most progressive of any in history–and yet it wasn’t good enough for the far-left who preferred to sabotage the election.

      Even far-left icon Chomsky who dislikes Clinton said you folks made a very bad mistake in not supporting Clinton in the general.

      http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/307570-chomsky-liberals-who-didnt-vote-for-clinton-made-a-bad-mistake

    • Lars Littlefield

      I remember saying the exact same thing back in 1966. Hubert Humphrey who?

      • Xiao Ai: The Social Gadfly

        The way I look at it none of us will be here anyway to see the outcome.

  • unsavedheathen

    We’re doomed.

  • Tomcat

    Check news and comments everywhere VERY closely from now on. Many are apparently going to be working for the right and some have been inserted for some time now, waiting for the right time to spread the disinformation.

  • Gerry Fisher

    When I hear conservatives describe liberals, I don’t recognize us. They’ve really made us into quite the boogeyman and boogeywoman. Instead of the conservative/liberal trap, I suggest that we focus on “doing what works, governing well.” I fantasized about dissolving the Democratic Party, partnering with disgruntled independents and the few remaining moderate conservatives, and rebranding as the “Governing Well” party: doing what works, measuring results, compromising to create solutions that can work across 50 states, using science as a guide.

    • Tomcat

      We care, and they use that as a sign of weakness. They only hate so they can perfect their hate with constancy.

    • Gerry Fisher

      Granted, the wording I used wasn’t “sexy.” We’d have to run some focus groups to get more exciting, interesting wording.

      • Tomcat

        If our party is counting on some simple fancy catch phrases to win,we might as well throw in the towel because it takes good ideas and not Yada-Yada-yada to win elections.

        • Tomcat

          The Democratic party is being chastised for having good ideas because they involve EVERYONE and not the elite only.

      • UrsusArctos 🐻

        Don’t forget “Triangulation”!

    • Ross

      I am proud to be a member of the Democratic Party.

      • Tomcat

        Me, too but I hope in 50 years people will know what a Democrat was.

      • UrsusArctos 🐻

        Me also. I’m saddened to see the party abandon large swaths of the country because fighting for seats is work and cuts into funding incumbency protection. Bitter? Yep, ever since they turned their collective backs on Howard Dean’s 50 state program.
        The losses at the statehouse level is going to take a generation to recover from, if ever.

    • Bert_Bauer

      To complement this, we need to do to conservatives what they have done to liberals for nearly 40 years. Their leaders must be demonized and attacked for having no ideas, no solutions, just lying about and attacking liberals. Ask any citizen what conservative programs has helped them and ypu’lyou’ll get a blank state. Conservatives have done nothing positive for this country. Get your act together, Democratic leadership!

  • Lazycrockett

    Oh No!!

    https://twitter.com/TheGNShow/status/919964799160774656

    She is gonna be on the couch alone. bummer.

    • Treant

      She was probably running after another victim, knife in one hand, e-mail program in the other.

      • UrsusArctos 🐻

        Delivering kiddy pr0n pizzas. /snark

  • Blake J Butler

    Just don’t go head over heels trying to appease social conservatives in the south and the Midwest by pandering to them at the expense of the real democratic base which is prochoice and LGBT+ voters. I am seeing so called progressive groups trying to run candidates for the sake of trying to win over white social conservatives, because “that’s how you win elections” I am not expendable, and I find it ironic that so called progressive groups are pandering to the lowest common denominator to win, when they probably moaned that Hillary wasn’t progressive enough.

    past swing states that have recently trended blue during the Obama years like Nevada, Virginia, New Mexico, Colorado moreso. those states have been trending blue but are not entirely reliable yet to the extent of strongholds like California or Massachusetts. We are more to the left now than we were with before Obama came in.

    Also staying home in midterms, and not voting for the rightful democratic nominee for president some people still had to be spoiled bitches and give a protest vote, vote for baby Huey, or deliberately stay home because they didn’t get the candidate they wanted.

    There comes a time to vote blue down the line during the general election, because your alternative is fascism and will not give a flying fuck about you or the issues you care about.

    • Ninja0980

      Yup, the 2010 NY Democrats learned that the hard way.
      Betray your base and they will turn their backs on you.

  • Bert_Bauer

    And here’s an illustration why Democrats are ineffective, even when presented with the “gift” of the most unpopular President and most ineffectual Congress ever. Durbin is buying into conservatives’ rhetoric and basically letting the right-wing propagandists control the narrative. I could see Durbin’s sound bite being used by the vile descendants of Lee Atwater against Democrats next year. Is there anyone on the right apologizing for being “too conservative”? Hell, no! We need new blood in the party to counteract these Stockholm Syndrome Dems.

  • TimCA

    I think Durbin should succinctly state what issues he’s referring to. Without clarification it’s a fairly meaningless statement.

  • drbrentzenobia

    The Democrats would do better to stop framing their message as a defensive response to what the Republicans MIGHT do, and instead focus on what the Democrats WILL do. Failure to deliver a clear vision as a party is why the Dems keep shrinking (that, plus gerrymandering – although gerrymanderimg is only possible because the state party Dems keep eroding.)

    • Jefe5084

      I agree. they are likely to get more support from folks if they can clearly describe what the are for, instead of what they are against. Trump keeps the pot stirred and many Dems focus on the horrible things he says/does/has done, but Dems don’t offer clear alternatives in many cases, or it gets drowned out in the noise.

  • Statistics Palin
    • Treant

      I’ve heard that every Tickle Me Elmo gets two test tickles.

  • safari
    • Gustav2

      No, bitch you own it. It is Trumpcare now.

      • Treant

        And it’s weird how I was fairly happy with Obamacare, but Trumpcare sucks from the get-go and it’s twice as expensive.

        • Gustav2

          And the the insurance industry will publish the new rates for 2019 weeks before the 2018 mid-terms.

          • Treant

            Let’s hope the American public can glance up from the 2018 new show premieres long enough to notice.

        • UrsusArctos 🐻

          I like the new avatar. Is it for winter or permanent?

          • Treant

            Hallowe’en only, then I’ll go with something else. Perhaps a decapitated turkey.

          • UrsusArctos 🐻

            Joe says NO threats to politicians. You’ll have to go with plan B.

          • Treant

            Well, that leaves out the decapitated ostrich and lipstick-toxic pig.

    • MikeBx2

      He said we shouldn’t even mention O-Care anymore. Got that media? No matter what happens from here on, call it TrumpCare.

    • JCF

      Drumpf speaks of “ObamaCare” as if the “Obama” were the thing that mattered. No, you putrid shite-fer-brains, it’s the *****CARE***** part!

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9b61c4dde1f14910e29595a9c6f81e659bae559c1d81d4dd1c2cf07193a19a2a.png

  • Gustav2

    I am getting fucking sick and tired of worrying about Nazi’s feelings and what they want.

    • Tomcat

      That is their plan, make all of us SICK and TIRED with no hope or healthcare and we just go away good.

  • Distingué Traces

    Sure, we should totally listen to this guy, because the moribund Democratic establishment that has been steadily losing Congressional seats for decades now has a really good sense of what motivates American voters.

  • UrsusArctos 🐻

    It IS a fine needle to thread outside of the “Blue Bubbles”. That said, failing to state WHAT Democratic values are and how they’re worth voting for vs “We’re not Trump” is a proven way to continue the failure.
    Moderates will accept someone they don’t agree with 100% IF they feel they stand for something and will fight for it.
    My attitude toward Durbin is -stop playing GOPlite, get off your asses and make clear stands people can vote FOR if you want Democrats to win. Us folks out here in the Red Sea have no time for GOP-lite. We have been living with it’s failure. Making the GOP fight for every seat is what will turn things around.

  • Adam Stevens

    So, like, if you can’t beat ’em, join ’em???

    We need younger leadership in this country.

    • Gustav2

      We need better salesmen and women of the agenda from the last convention. And we need to fight for it in every state.

      It really wasn’t that fucking liberal.

  • Charles Nelson

    More and more Whites are polling as leaning Republican. Until the Democratic Party can figure out a way to get non-Whites to vote, the US will continue its slide to the far-right.

    • Tomcat

      Gee I just cannot figure out why whites are so afraid of the non whites they have treated like shit for so long now.

    • The_Wretched

      Hispanic non-whites are threatened with deportations when they try to vote. Voter intimidation is a part of the problem. Texas would be deep blue absent this one.

  • Andrea_Rae

    The problem with the far left is that they are willing to die on every hill. This mentality has pushed me quite a bit back toward the center politically. What happened to talking and compromising to reach mutually agreeable solutions? Both sides are guilty. I’ll more than likely vote third party during the next election.

    • Gustav2

      What both sides?

      Your third party vote is worthless and more than compromises your goals.

      • Ken M

        Central party voting doesn’t seem to hurt the GOP as much. Why do you think that is?

        • Gustav2

          Because they are all right wingers, not centrists.

        • Snarky

          They vote to win, not to make a statement.

      • Andrea_Rae

        I’m at the point where I rather cast a worthless vote that I believe in.

      • Andrea_Rae

        My goal is progress thru discussion and compromise. Neither mainstream party is interested in that.

        • The_Wretched

          My goal is to magically turn into a dragon.

    • CB

      which will accomplish exactly what?

    • The_Wretched

      “Both sides”!

      Drink!

    • Stev84

      There is no organized “far left” in America. Some of the Democrats are center-left and that’s it. On some issues at least. Most are centrists or center-right. Especially on foreign policy.

    • andrew

      I get your point, but voting for a third party is voting for someone who can’t win and possibly allowing the person you disagree with most to be the winner.

  • Ken M

    In 6 months, or likely less) the parties will start pumping their candidates. Stay on The Hill and get online! Get on the road this summer, then get your asses back to DC. One thing that bothers me is all the time, and money, the elected officials spend NOT doing the jobs they were chosen to do. Use the internet, text, FB m whatever, but don’t use my tax dollars to promote yourself 9 months before the election.
    “Excuse me boss, I’m taking 9 months off to go and make sure I can keep my job. I’ll need to be payed by the way.” EXCUSE ME!?!

    • Treant

      You can expect the next year to be filled with ads and trolls whipping up the far left to believe they’re not represented, either. It’s a cheap way of disenfranchising 2% of the voting public, even when they get 90% of what they want when the Dems are in power.

      Enjoy.

  • Robincho

    Thank you, Deanna Durbin. Now go sing yourself to sleep…

  • CB

    Don’t stand up for anyone’s rights.
    Don’t prevent people from dying because they don’t have access to healthcare.
    Don’t look into corruption.
    Do let the xtians drive the bus.

    Is this not the time to talk about growing a pair? Or barring that a teeny bit of spine?

  • andrew

    That’s good solid advice from Senator Durban, a man who has a 35 year progressive record on most issues and problems facing America. He realizes that there is a large center of the American electorate that must not be alienated by veering too far to the left. The Democratic Party should not allow the ideologues of the far left to gain control of our Party the way the extreme ideologues of the right have gained control of the Republican Party. A good mix of pragmatism with our progressive beliefs is in order.

    • The_Wretched

      gargle?

      • UrsusArctos 🐻

        Did autocorrect “substitute” for argle-bargle??

        • The_Wretched

          No, but my brain did.

      • andrew

        Meaning?

    • rextrek1

      as a dem who voted for Bernie – then Hillary – has Durbin NOT learned ANYTHING? People are SICK of the “STATUS QUO” DEMS…..the CORPORATE DEMS…..the “go Along” dems……. in 2016 Patty Murray, Schumer and mike Bennett all TOOK A COMBINED ALMOST $4 MILLION from the INSURANCE LOBBY! ..to keep the STATUS QUO! ……Anthony wiener might have turned out to be a Perve – but At Least he didn’t TAKE SHIT from the GOP!

      • Irish856

        few voted for Bernie… if more had he would have won. But since he is not a Democrat, why vote for him as the Democrat candidate?
        Bernie was waaay to far to the left for most in the middle. Stupid people thought that the former Democrat, trump, would be more to the center then he is, so they voted for trump. BOY, were they wrong.
        Most people in the center are just as afraid of extremists on the left as they are on the right. Most will choose the candidate closest to the middle.
        Remember, there are twice as many in the center then on the far right or left.

        • The_Wretched

          facts not in evidence.

          • Irish856

            enlighten us with how you see the facts

    • Distingué Traces

      Senator Durbin’s 35 year career has seen the fortunes of the Democrats steadily decline. His outlook is that of someone who has presided over a slow defeat.

      Although there was one exception to the general downward trend. Remember that one time the party actually did nominate a boldly progressive candidate? Yeah, that guy swept into office on a landslide vote and immediately passed universal healthcare, a idea which had been derided as an impossible pipe dream up to the moment it was achieved.

      (… And then the bold progressive started governing more and more like a cynical “centrist”, quickly losing his momentum and the confidence of his citizens. But that’s another story.)

  • Berdawn Hutchinson

    I miss the Democratic party; I hope that someday I can vote for them again (2008 was a long time ago!) but they keep making it impossible with this kind of thinking.

    • UrsusArctos 🐻

      I vote Democratic anyway, but reallllly hate having to inflict the “Lesser of the Evils” upon all of us.

      • Berdawn Hutchinson

        it sucks that the US is too racist to be like France and elect a nice middle-right corporatist

    • danolgb

      Okay.. thanks for helping the Republicans.. because they’re so much better.

      • Berdawn Hutchinson

        I’ll vote for Federal Dems when I don’t have to worry about fracking. That’s the literal mountain on which I’ll die–until I can drink water without fear, I owe neither party fuck all

        • danolgb

          And yet your choice will move you even further from that goal. But at least you can sit on your moral high ground while rights are taken away and people die, right?

          https://qz.com/717255/ethicists-say-voting-with-your-heart-without-a-care-about-the-consequences-is-actually-immoral/

          • Berdawn Hutchinson

            Moral high ground? My rights have already been taken away and people are dying because of this. You may be lucky enough to be insulated but not everyone has that privilege.

          • danolgb

            And again, your choices will not move you any closer to your goal. You’re actually moving further away by not using logic and instead voting based on emotion.

        • Adam King

          You’re so pure and untainted it’s a wonder you haven’t ascended into heaven like the Virgin Mary.

          • Berdawn Hutchinson

            I’m not sure how worrying that my water is tainted by the fracking nearby makes me pure?

      • andrew

        Read what this solid progressive Democratic Senator said and stop with the knee jerk reaction.

        • danolgb

          I think you meant to post this to Berdawn and not me.

    • andrew

      Obama and Dick Durban are both center-left Democrats. They are both very much in the main stream of the Democratic Party, for at least the last 70 years.

      • Berdawn Hutchinson

        I’ve stopped voting against my interests–when the Dems stop supporting frackers, I’ll support them. In the time I have left, I’ll keep voting for the party(ies) that promote the novel idea that I deserve safe drinking water

      • The_Wretched

        Obama is not center-left. He governed center-right by anyone’s non-US standards.

  • coram nobis

    Vichy, next five exits.

  • The_Wretched

    Let’s not overlook the politics here – Durbin felt that he had to make this public statement of supporting the FEDDEM status quo of ‘don’t rock the boat’ and ‘stick to the ‘we’re better than Trump’ negative messaging. Why is that? What is it about the dem donor class that demands these milquetoast public obeisances?

    • Adam King

      Might it have something to do with a connection between the donor class and the rampant unregulated capitalism that’s been dragging down the middle class and uber-enriching the uber-rich since the 1970s?

      • The_Wretched

        i think so

    • andrew

      If you’ve ever read or listened to speeches by Dick Durban, you wouldn’t make the stupid remark characterizing his comments as “milquetoast obeisances.” He has over the years made very strong speeches and introduced and voted in favor of progressive legislation. Read and learn. There is everything correct in his reminder that we should not veer too far from where the majority of American voters are and wind up losing elections and thus not being able to advance any of the progressive agenda. Get real. Live in the real world.

      • The_Wretched

        I was commenting on the OP. I don’t know the rest of his speeches. You might want to ask why the change then.

  • Taylor Bixler
  • downtownla

    Wake up, Dick, America didn’t come out to vote for Democrats because they didn’t see a difference between Democrats and Republicans. It’s your type of thinking that has put us in the awful position. Maybe if you actually fought for your ideas and talked like a winner, we might actually get the type of legislation we believe in. Americans respond to tough talk, in case you haven’t noticed.

  • edrex

    hmmm… i for one would like to know what too liberal means to him? universal health care? wall street regulations? access to women’s healthcare? stronger protections for lgbt people in the workplace? exactly how might the dems “overdo it” ?

    • Hal Witherspoon

      By too liberal he means ideas that will not be respected on the Sunday news shows.

  • Halou

    Do the Republicans ever pause to think “we’d better not be too fascist” as well?

    • Jean-Marc in Canada

      Bahahahahahah, you used the words “think” and “Republicans” in the same sentence.

  • Lawerence Collins

    I knew I couldn’t stand my establishment Democratic Senator! Time to call him every day. All day. I’ve got nothing but time.

  • Jean-Marc in Canada

    I made a comment then deleted it. Why? Because after writing a long and practical post about how this is a stunt, how it’s not helpful and how the left, liberals and those in between continue to fuck each other over due to purity standards, I decided not to bother…liberals and the left in America are so at odds that they fight amongst themselves while the GOP gleefully chortle all the way to the seats of power.

    • Friday

      Well, he’s not really actually saying all that much in the first place, depending what you leap to think he means. Which of itself may not be the best idea.

  • bambinoitaliano

    Civil rights and human rights are not morality scale that one can slide up or down by gauging the temperament of the political climate du jour. You can’t be less tolerant of fascism, racism, sexism and bigotry because there is no appetite to confront the issues head on.

  • Rocco

    What concerns me the most about this is he thinks Trumputin would still remotely stand a chance of still being in office by 2020…smh

  • JT

    Oh, shut the fuck up, Durbin. That kind of response makes you look spineless in the face of fascism.

  • 2patricius2

    So Republican-lite is going to save us? What is “too liberal”?

    • Rillion

      Single payer

  • mizzourah

    He’s right.

    • stevenj

      Only if voters who didn’t vote in 2016 don’t vote again in 2020. trump squeaked by in 3 states targeted by Republicans/Russians.

  • Friday

    Well, there’s a statement that’s bound to cause a lot of arguing without actually meaning much of anything.

  • -M-

    Or, you could talk with the voters explaining your values and why you think it’s in people’s best interests to support them and how those values address their needs and concerns.

  • Clive Johnson

    We’ve been hearing this message for years from the corporate Democrats, and now we have a resurgent far-right.

    German social democrats, Labour in England, etc., etc., all shifted to the gospel of neoliberalism. One consequence of this is the rise of the far right–AfD in Germany, UKIP in England.

    The Democrats have to figure out that they have to serve the interests of working class people and that a more fair and just society will sooner attract people than push them away.

  • kladinvt

    I hope this isn’t the DNC’s plan again. It’s undefinable and lackluster.

  • stanhope

    Stupid as the days are long and twice as self serving. The left is the democrats only hope.

    • andrew

      The Democrats actually win elections when they are seen to be centrists or even center-left like Truman, JFK, Johnson, Carter, Bill Clinton and Obama. Veering too far to the left is defeat for Democrats.

      • The_Wretched

        um, Wellstone and Frankin?

  • ultragreen

    Senator Durbin better be careful if he wants to be reelected. The moderate Senator Dixon in Illinois was defeated in a Democratic primary after swinging too far to the right and voting for Clarence Thomas’ appointment to the U.S. Supreme Court. He was defeated by a black woman, Carol Moseley Braun, who became the next Senator of Illinois.

  • mark99k

    Annnnd we’re doomed. The 2020 election is 3 years away but we’re already being fed the centrist pablum that has fucked us over so many times already. None of Durbin’s ilk have the slightest idea how to sway undecided voters, and their lackluster, milquetoast attitude will likely hand the election to another demagogue.

  • Dean Cameron

    I gave up being a Democrat when they became the Republican Lite Party.

    • andrew

      Do you stay home on election day or vote for a third party which helps to guarantee that the real Republican Party wins the election? Please don’t tell us that there would be no significant differences between a Trump and Hillary Clinton Administration.

      • Dean Cameron

        Being a Green, I vote for whoever I think will do best for the Country.
        For such an important Office as the Presidency, I am obliged to Vote for the Democrat most of the time, simply because the Green Candidates haven’t the Resume to run a Country… yet.

  • Ann Kah

    “Sensitive” and “moderate” in this context means “Who can we throw under the bus?”.

  • JCF

    Wow, I come to this thread late—and am honestly *shocked* by the comments here (virtually all of them, that I’ve scrolled through thus far).

    Look, I obviously don’t want Joe Manchin for President! I’d really love to get more Ruth Bader Ginsburgs on SCOTUS (ergo, a President who would nominate them). But the MOST IMPORTANT thing to me, is Democratic Party unity. We didn’t have NEAR enough of it in 2016, and it was one factor (only one of, but still) that cost us the election. If further left gets us victory, GREAT! But the Rethug regime is TOO DISASTROUS, at this time, to focus on little more than WINNING.

    Time to post this again:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/82b21cd2c6281bd91e6fdab4059f12b34567d4b8de40df1eb9c2d2b0fd8686ac.jpg

  • Ore Carmi

    Oh, in that case let’s just sit back and let those damn Republicans take away women’s reproductive rights and recent advances in lgbt equality, dismantle environmental protections and the social safety net, and further entrench voter disenfranchisement and a racist justice system.