Historic CDC Statement On People Getting “Effective” HIV Treatment: Undetectable = Untransmittable

HIV Plus Magazine reports:

After hundreds of other experts and HIV organizations have already signed on to a pledge that recognizes that people living with HIV whose treatment has brought their viral load to an undetectable level — which is nearly half of all HIV-positive people in the U.S. — cannot transmit HIV to any other person, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has come out with the definitive statement on the subject.

“Across three different studies, including thousands of couples and many thousand acts of sex without a condom or pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP),” the statement continues, “no HIV transmissions to an HIV-negative partner were observed when the HIV-positive person was virally suppressed. This means that people who take ART daily as prescribed and achieve and maintain an undetectable viral load have effectively no risk of sexually transmitting the virus to an HIV-negative partner.”

Hit the link for more, including observations on the number of HIV-infected who are unaware of their status or not on treatment. The CDC’s letter is here.

  • Tawreos

    It is so nice to see some good news for a change.

    • WitlessProtection

      It’s nice to see a post without the word TRUMP in it on JMG for a change…

      • Tawreos

        I was going to mention that, but didn’t want to ruin it by bringing his name into it.

        • WitlessProtection

          I understand the need to resist and be the opposition but for crying out loud I would love to see a 45 free day on here.

          • Southeast PDXer

            He can’t go more than 20 minutes without doing something stupid, so you know it’s not going to happen.

          • TrueWords

            Yes but NOT ignoring Trump is part of the reason the country is here RIGHT NOW…everyone from liberal to conservative LOVE the ad revenue and other money making things that Trump has done and continues to do for them….

          • TrueWords

            AMEN…I mean there are SO many more things going on in our world than Trump’s ego trip around the Oval Office…

          • DN

            I’d love to see a day where he isn’t spewing bullshit.

          • (((GC)))

            I’d love to see 45*-free days for our country and the world!

      • Treant

        Wait. I’m sure he’ll fire a pile of folks at the CDC for being scientifically accurate.

      • Uncle Mark

        So what does HHS Director Price have to say about this news…or does he have to charter a flight to a microphone first?

      • Gerry Fisher

        SEE-riously!

  • fuow

    Wow. The CDC actually told the truth. For once.
    Now, cue the usual suspects who will try to leverage this to argue against barebacking….three, two, one….

    • clay

      Chlamydia!

      • Treant

        (sung) I just met a girl named…Chlamydia!

        • clay

          I was thinking more American Horror Story, season 3:
          “Do you have any last words?”
          “Yes, only one: . . . “

      • Xiao Ai: The Social Gadfly

        I used to wear those to the beach! The short pants? Very stylish.

    • gaycuckhubby

      If HIV is your only concern and youre on PrEP, then sure, bareback away

      • Todd20036

        PrEP/HAART.
        In areas where both are used, new HIV infections have dropped to 0

        • gaycuckhubby
          • fuow

            Nobody ever claimed it did. That’s not the point.

          • Howard Roark

            I think he is saying that while HIV risks are zero, you can still get exposed to some nasty STD’s, so better keep using a condom. Seems on point to me.

          • fuow

            I get what he’s saying – but as a gay man in his ’60s, I lived through the entire ‘always use a condom’ failure.
            It’s one of those utopian ideas which don’t work.

          • Jeffrey

            When you make a good point and someone says “that’s not the point.”

        • Stuart ArtFart

          LOL.

          Yeah, please specify those areas “where both are used”? One person in the entire state is on PreP and one person in the entire state is on HAART and magically all 1,000,000 sexually active people are tested and found to be HIV-negative.

          You have a tendency to talk out of your ass there, Pollyanna.

      • fuow

        I knew you’d show up. After over 35 years of abysmal failure with your position, you still don’t get it.

        • gaycuckhubby

          Huh?

        • Well, shaming isn’t going to work on a community that escaped shaming to come out as gay in the first place. Not only does that shit not work on me as an adult, I openly resent it. So I get what you are saying. Even so, I do think we should still be using condoms, but I’m very pleased to hear that what we had suspected for some time, that those on meds are not transmitting HIV, is true. Now if we can just get everyone who is HIV positive on those meds.

          • gaycuckhubby

            Education does not equal shaming

          • fuow

            No, but the whole, entire ‘use a condom’ meme failed and failed entirely. It’s time to accept that and to look for ways to educate people which do work.

      • Silver Badger

        Unless, of course, you partner has a Truvada resistant HIV infection. It HAS happened.

    • Todd20036

      Most of them have been banned already. You’d be surprised, or maybe not, at some of the hatred that was directed towards me, once upon a time.

      • fuow

        Oh, I remember. Wow, do I remember. I’ve been married and monogamous with the same man for well over 30 years now and they pissed me off so much I started wearing a Truvada Whore T-Shirt.

        • Todd20036

          Thanks beautiful.

    • Do Something Nice

      Well, there are legitimate concerns such as drug resistant gonorrhea. But many of those psychopaths who were against PrEP seemed to be driven by shame and Puritanism.

      • fuow

        Upvote for actually citing reality instead of just whore shaming.
        My position, as a monogamous man, is that I deeply resent other people telling me I’m somehow infringing on their lifestyle by being monogamous. I don’t want to be such a pig toward others – live and let live.
        Over 35 years of screeching that barebacking is evil, bad and a big no-no have succeeded in precisely: NOTHING. I don’t see anyone telling it to straight people…..

        • Maybe not but they should be. it’s not like straight people don’t get STDs too. I agree with you about the slut shaming. But I’m also appalled that people think of “barebacking” as some sort of lifestyle choice and promote it.

          BTW, my insistence on condoms every time is why I, at 55, am still alive today. I wouldn’t say it accomplished nothing. No, it probably didn’t convince any of the barebacking “entusiasts” but hopefully it worked on some people not that stupid about their own health.

    • Uncle Mark

      BBBBBut Tony Perkins just said that most STDs are incurable/untreatable !! How soon will we hear that the CDC is run by lying, gay, feminist, Muslim pedophile satanists?

      • Jeffrey

        The WHO says that drug resistant gonhorrea is on the rise. Regardless of how I feel about Perkins, people still need to be careful.

        • fuow

          Of course they do! Just, this is a thread on HIV transmission.

      • jmax

        Hahaha. My sister works for the National Center for HIV/AIDS at the CDC. I’ll have to forward your post to her, she’ll get a kick out of it.

        • gaycuckhubby

          Out of curiousity, is she a lying, gay, feminist, Muslim, pedophile satanist?

          • jmax

            She’s straight, a feminist, and Baptist, so probably not a Muslim or satanist. I’ll have to ask her about the lying and pedophile thing. Although if she tells me she lies, how can I believe her if she says she’s not a pedophile?

          • gaycuckhubby

            😂😂

    • Jeffrey

      Well incurable and resistant strains of STDs are on the rise so do with that info what you please. Condoms aren’t just for HIV prevention.

      • Jeffg166

        Thank you. It doesn’t mean the party is back on. Play safe!

        • BudClark

          I played “safe” during, before, and after the Epidemic raged, mostly because it made cleanup easier. I don’t recall any great difference in the length, intensity, or kinkiness of our “play parties,” but in San Diego fisting/leather circles there was a kind of gentleman’ agreement. I knew all my partners’ HIV status without having to ask.

          Of course, it was the leather and fisting communities that were hit first, and hardest. It was also them and the lesbians who responded first to the call to arms for demonstrations, medicines, care-givers, etc. etc. etc.

          At one time in the ’80s, MCC/SD was the ONLY church (aside from First Unitarian Universalist) that would HOLD HIV/AIDS funerals. There was ONE (gay-owned) mortuary that would accept HIV/AIDS victims for embalming / viewing.

          I suppose most older JMGers remember the attempt by the State of Florida (naturally) to pass all kinds of bizarre laws about HIV/AIDS victims, including that their coffins had to be covered with HOT TAR before burial (!).

          • chrisinphx

            What in The fuck? Hot tar covering a coffin!?! wow

      • fuow

        I’m in a monogamous marriage and have been for over 30 years. I knew the usual reality-deniers would show up, though.
        So – after 35 years of slut-shaming, you achieved exactly what with your attempts to get men to use condoms?
        You achieved nothing.

        • Jeffrey

          You’re not making any sense. Maybe there’s some other kind of meds you need to look into.

          • fuow

            Having been down this road with you many-a-time, I’ll just leave it at this: Your anti-barebacking campaign failed utterly. And has done for over 35 years now.

          • Jeffrey

            I have never been down any road with you, you retarded asshole. I don’t care how many cocks you sit on or what you put on them. Go take your fucking meds and fuck right off.

        • Saying that condoms prevent other STD’s aside from HIV is not being anti-bareback, it’s simply stating the truth.

          • fuow

            Yes, Bob, it is – but this thread is about HIV. And, let’s be honest, here – the slut shaming and anti-barebacking lobby around here have been total asswipes to those of us who actually lived through the entire disaster, from beginning to now and who know – both from scientifically conducted surveys and anecdotal experience that the whole ‘use condoms’ meme failed, has failed and will fail.

  • HZ81

    So incredible. If you were alive and of age to be alert during the ’80s, this kind of announcement ever happening would seem incredible. I was a kid but scared shitless. Before I even knew what gay was, I was petrified of dying from it.

    Scary. So glad we for this crazy thing called science the GOP wants to end.

    • gaycuckhubby

      Science for the win!

      • BWL

        I’m pretty sure it was my impeccable thought to prayer ratios that did the trick 🙂

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    • David

      I was 18 in 1986, I’ll never forget that fear either.

  • Todd20036

    Yeah, funny that. It’s what my doctor told me years ago.

    • William

      A similar report was issued in Europe about five years ago. American doctors are terrified of liability.

    • Gerry Fisher

      I think it’s taken a long time for people to wrap their heads around this reality. Or to accept it emotionally. Old long-standing habits are difficult to break.

    • Gerry Fisher

      When would you say that we “knew” this? Mid aughts?

      • fuow

        I recollect discussions in which actual medical doctors were saying thiswas information to be suppressed because it ‘helped’ stop barebacking.

  • Mike_in_the_Tundra

    This will give me a lot to think about. My husband is positive and I am negative. I really would like to stop PrEP. It will be much more difficult giving up condoms.

    • Todd20036

      If he’s on HAART (and I’m sure he is), and you are on PrEP, you really don’t need condoms.
      But that’s up to you.

      • Mike_in_the_Tundra

        We’ve used condoms ever since we met. Not using condoms appeals to me.

        • Todd20036

          You no longer need them. It’s just a matter of comfort level with the two of you.

    • Do Something Nice

      Why do you want to stop PrEP? Side effects? Hassle? General principles?

      • Mike_in_the_Tundra

        Why put drugs into your body if you don’t need them?

      • Howard Roark

        My doctor wants me off Prep because it is affecting my kidney function.

        • danolgb

          Eventually Descovy will probably be approved for PREP. It’s Truvada, but better on the kidneys for those who have an issue.

    • gaycuckhubby

      Husband and I on PrEP. Bareback w each other. Husband insists on condoms when he’s with other guys

      • Mike_in_the_Tundra

        Do you use condoms when you are with others?

        • gaycuckhubby

          I’m not with others. Only half open marriage 🙂

          • Mike_in_the_Tundra

            That’s something I couldn’t handle. What is sauce for the gander, is also sauce for the other gander.

          • gaycuckhubby

            I’m allowed to be. Choose not to

          • Mike_in_the_Tundra

            That’s better.

          • stuckinthewoods

            ah so…now I understand your moniker.

          • gaycuckhubby

            😉

          • Boo Hoo

            So, I’m in a similar situation, but find myself getting angry about his extra-curricular activities. I’ve also made the cuck joke, but he disagrees that that is what is going on here. Even though it clearly is. Anywho, do you experience any anger, and if so, how do you resolve it?

          • gaycuckhubby

            No anger at all, in fact I was the one who initiated the setup.
            we were completely monogamous until this.
            I feel jealousy, of course, but for me I eroticise that and get off on it.
            It started out as my fantasy and he benefits by being able to be with other guys.
            Totally consensual we check in often to make sure that we’re good emotional in a relationship is good. cuckolding is fun, it’s something that’s brought us closer together but our marriage is number one and always will be. I’d give up my fetish in a heartbeat if I felt like it was making me lose my husband

          • Boo Hoo

            Thank you for replying. I guess I feel jealousy because someone’s needs are being met, and they sure as hell aren’t mine. It’s a serious issue, here. Something that will need to be worked through. Somehow.

          • gaycuckhubby

            Good luck. Rekationships/marriages ideally are mutually fullfilling and beneficial

      • fuow

        That makes total sense.

    • boatboy_srq

      In the same situation here, and facing the same dilemma – at least as soon as the two of us are in the same metro area (and no, I am NOT moving to Ohio).

    • ChrisMorley

      I hope this Factsheet helps
      ‘Viral load and transmission – a factsheet for HIV-negative people’ http://www.aidsmap.com/Viral-load-and-transmission-a-factsheet-for-HIV-negative-people/page/2989764/

      Book an appointment for the both of you with the HIV clinician if you have any doubts about trusting the U=U evidence.

  • Treant

    OT: The heat finally broke here in PA! Now we’re only six degrees above normal instead of 21 degrees over the top.

    So…yeah! I guess.

    • joeyj1220

      same here in Ontario… bring on Fall

    • ClevelandJim

      Same here, 62 and I am LOVING it! I’m on staycation this week, and have spent it hibernating inside with the AC running, until last night. Went outside and did some garden work and clean up this morning, ahhhhh.

    • Ragnar Lothbrok

      We got down to mid 40’s last couple nights. The AC needed a break.

      • Treant

        Ours, too. It’s all, “I’ve been running since April. Please, please, let me rest.”

        We’re all like, “Work (cracks whip)! Work harder!”

      • DonnaLee

        In Western PA it only went down to 65 degrees. Only reason the house is cool now is it’s only 70 now. I’m excited about mid-50s tonight! The cats and I will enjoy our walk without mommy getting out of breath so easily.

        • Ragnar Lothbrok

          Nice ! The fall really is the best time of year.

    • BudClark

      Nice, cool, shut-off-the-a/c-and-open-the-windows kind of day in the California desert. It’s ONLY 89 degrees F. (chuckle) … FALL weather for US.

      • Treant

        I felt your pain yesterday. 91 in the shade! But we’re used to that in July and can work with it in September, even though it was supposed to be 70 degrees.

    • DonnaLee

      I know it, I had a job interview yesterday, and had to be ‘professionally dressed’, yet walk about 200 yards in 93 degree F heat to get to the building entrance. I kept thinking about how I had to try and schedule as early as possible….but in hindsight I think I could have waited a day. I felt good about the interview, but I didn’t have energy for anything yesterday.

      • Treant

        Ugh, I hope you get the job!

        I have every window in the house open, venting a summer’s worth of volatile organic compounds and general air haze. The temp is actually starting to fall too low to do that!

  • worstcultever

    Gah. This world. Never too early for an antidote I guess

    https://twitter.com/planetepics/status/913194823120760838

  • pj

    so this will stop gay men from asking other gay men if they are clean before they fuck them? doubtful.

    • Jeffrey

      What should they ask? In all seriousness. What should a person ask another person before they have sex with them? I’m certainly not a slut shaming because I spent many years successfully slutting. But it has always been acceptable to talk about status. Or is it the word “clean” that you have a problem with…because that I understand.

      • gaycuckhubby

        Interested in responses here. Curious as well… hate the term “clean” too. Never use it

        • Treant

          “Why yes, I bathed at around 5:30 this morning using my own soap.”

          • Cipher

            “I shower every morning, twice if I’ve exercised or done yard work.”

      • Treant

        I always just asked HIV status. And then, given the time frame, functioned as if they were positive and didn’t know it.

      • Adam Schmidt

        I was recently asked if I was negative, positive, or undetectable. That was refreshingly educated and upfront.

        I’ve also been asked if I was “clean” and I blocked the motherfucker.

      • another_steve

        Imo the key is no slut-shaming for not asking or telling and no stigmatizing for asking or for having unprotected sex. Neither.

        In 2017, mentally competent gay men who haven’t recently emerged from a 40-year sleep know about HIV and the risks of unprotected sex. Also, if you’re mentally competent, you know that someone’s “report” to you regarding his HIV status might be complete bullshit – either intentionally on the part of the person asked or as a result of that person just guessing.

        No shaming. No stigmatizing.

        Each mentally competent man needs to decide for himself how to proceed.

      • Gerry Fisher

        I think that it depends on your level of knowledge and intimacy with the person. If it’s a hook up or anonymous situation, I’d say that one should focus on self protection without having to ask the other person anything. If it’s a relationship–a fuck buddy or someone you’ve been dating a while or a partner–then it’s more likely that you can know and trust that that person’s being med compliant and is undetectable.

        I’ve heard of people asking, “Are you undetectable?” The real issue is whether you can trust that person’s answer. If you’ve known them a while, then it’s more likely that you can trust the answer you receive.

    • The_Wretched

      You wouldn’t like me then. STIs and risk is always part of my pre-play negotiating. I don’t think I’ve ever used ‘clean’ before though.

    • Gerry Fisher

      Instead, they’ll ask “Are you med compliant?” (Half joking)

    • juanjo54

      If one is having sex with another person, one should always be aware that STD’s are possible. Even if they are HIV-, a bout of the clap, herpes or some other disease can pretty much fuck up your day. And in the case of the drug resistant varieties, pretty much fuck up the rest of your life.

    • James

      Using “clean” to mean “HIV-negative” is an asshole move. Asking potential sex partners about their STI status is a sensible thing to do.

  • Howard Roark

    Quite a relief. Great news.

    It is key that HIV positive people stay on their meds. I’ve read that if you are on your meds, it is impossible to become detectable. true?

    A friend of mine was depressed because he went from undetectable to detectable. He said he was taking his meds. I wonder if he was fibbing.

    • Silver Badger

      If you develop resistance to your meds, you can become detectable again. This can happen even if you take your meds religiously.

      • …. which is WHY it’s important for anyone on HAART to get blood work done at least once a year.

        • juanjo54

          Kaiser told me I only needed to do so once a year but I could do it more often if I wished. My new doctor there is a bit more conservative, he wants it every six months. But no more every three months which I have to say was a bit of an annoyance.

    • juanjo54

      It is possible for someone compliant with the meds to have minor fluctuations in the levels – for example someone who is under a lot of stress from work, is not eating or sleeping properly and develops a low level infection might depress the immune system even further allowing the virus to jot up a bit. I have been on the “cocktail” since it was first released back in the late 1990s. In all that time I have had one time [early 2000’s] where I had a detectable viral load and it was low. I remember when it happened because I was totally freaked out by it. I immediately called my doctor and asked him what I should do. He knew I had a pretty high stress position then, traveling a lot and doing a lot of jury trials. He told me to take a couple weeks of vacation and go to the beach and then get retested. in a month. I did and was undetectable again, where I have remained ever since. So I can see where your friend might be depressed. I was in full drama queen mode. The husband was not amused but did his best to be supportive and clam me down.

  • boatboy_srq

    The (soon-to-be) deckhand_srq will be relieved to hear that. He’s been terrified I’ll seroconvert no matter how careful we are.

  • Dayglo

    Let’s get those vaccine trials started and bury this fucking disease.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/health-41351159

  • gaycuckhubby

    Any women out here on PrEP? My sister-in-law asked me about getting on it. And how it counteracts with birth control. Her general practicioner was no help. Said it was a drug for gay men.
    I directed her to some websites

  • gaycuckhubby

    Slut shaming is wrong!
    Shaming people for having frank discussions about sexual behavior and risks is wrong.

  • Puckfair52

    Wow! I Just Turned 30 when a coworker died and the women in the office said it was that new gay plague.
    Astounding!