BERNED: Hillary Shades Sanders In New Book

The New York Daily News reports:

Feel the burned. Hillary Clinton torches her Democratic primary rival Bernie Sanders and blames him in part for her defeat in an excerpt from her upcoming memoir about the 2016 race.

In a passage from “What Happened,” Clinton accuses Sanders and the so-called “Bernie Bros” sect of his supporters for slinging mud on her that stuck through the general campaign — and, she says, buried her bid for the White House.

“Because we agreed on so much, Bernie couldn’t make an argument against me…so he had to resort to innuendo and impugning my character,” Clinton writes about the Vermont senator. Clinton also says the treatment she saw from Sanders’ supporters was “ugly and more than a little sexist.”

More from the Washington Post:

“When I finally challenged Bernie during a debate to name a single time I changed a position or a vote because of a financial contribution, he couldn’t come up with anything,” she wrote. “Nonetheless, his attacks caused lasting damage, making it harder to unify progressives in the general election and paving the way for Trump’s ‘Crooked Hillary’ campaign. “I don’t know if that bothered Bernie or not.”

Clinton continues: “He certainly shared my horror at the thought of Donald Trump becoming President, and I appreciate that he campaigned for me in the general election. But he isn’t a Democrat — that’s not a smear, that’s what he says. He didn’t get into the race to make sure a Democrat won the White House, he got in to disrupt the Democratic Party.”

  • bambinoitaliano

    This should be a fun thread. Oh wait! I blocked all the Bernie bots. Meh!

    • Todd20036

      So did I. I’ve no use for them. Their “alternate views” got us a Nazi in the WH.

      • bambinoitaliano

        I’m not pro Hillary per se. My eyes were on the ice berg that was heading our way while many are too busy fighting over who should steer the vessel.

    • Karl Dubhe

      I unblock everyone every three months. 🙂

      I don’t normally see the formerly blocked again. vov.

    • justmeeeee

      Keep trying.

      • vorpal 😼

        I hope you’re thoroughly getting tired of winning by now.

        • Carl

          Endless posts about Trump being an asshole, these guys are relatively quiet. One post where Clinton is critical of Sanders, and suddenly it’s all out war for these guys.

          • vorpal 😼

            I lack strong opinions on the matter of Bernie vs. Clinton. Ideally, I liked Bernie’s progressive ideas, but they struck me as not only unrealistic to achieve in the current state of affairs in the US, but too frightening in terms of scope of change to the moderate, undecided voters, which is why I leaned towards Clinton a bit more.

            In any case, I would have voted for either come the election, and was very happy to cast my vote for Hillary. Anyone who didn’t can take partial responsibility for the colossal shitshow we’re stuck dealing with now.

  • Tiger Quinn

    Good. Bernie Bros need to be told in no uncertain terms that we are not doing any of that. Convenient Democrat Bernie Sanders is not our leader.

    • Gustav2

      Would someone inform the MSM and cable news?

  • Macbill

    Who in their right mind thought Tump had a chance?

    • Jonathan Smith

      and we were all oh, so, wrong.

      • Ross

        No, we were not wrong.

        I told all my friends that Trump had but a single chance of winning: If the election was hacked.

        And look what happened…

      • Mickey Bitsko

        They all laughed on Bill Maher when a few couple of months before the election Michael Moore said it would happen if the Dems remained complacent. And I don’t even like Michael Moore.

    • bkmn

      V. Putin

    • PiperPine

      Me. I talked about is constantly after New Hampshire. I think part of the problem for a lot of Leftists, Progressives, Liberals etc. is that there was a distinct failure of imagination to see the threat and respond appropriately.

    • Mickey Bitsko

      A year ago I would’ve bet the house, with 100% certainty, that we’d never see another Republican in the WH. Fortunately, I live in a rent-stabilized apartment. (ꏿ﹏ꏿ)

  • Jonathan Smith

    “He didn’t get into the race to make sure a Democrat won the White House, he got in to disrupt the Democratic Party.” https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7cd59495f02097446ec9d6b2f22d3d93d406e866b40aaf759ca2784e9559bd64.png

    • justmeeeee

      What the HIl-bots fail to see, always and forever, is that once in a while someone with integrity and principles wants to try to have a chance to actually “serve.” You know, public “serve”-ice?

      • Carl
      • Randy Ellicott

        What Bernie bots refuse to see is that Bernie was not the Messiah you all wanted him to be. had he had the principles of progressiveness close to his heart he wouldn’t have used the GOP lies to further his cause, he wouldn’t have damaged the only party that could stand up to the right so much, he wouldn’t have failed to educate his followers on how the system works, and when they failed at something instead of explaining why it happened it was all a blame game to him. By no means is trumps presidency all Bernie’s fault; Clinton, the media, and all of us share in that blame, but pretending that Bernie is some white knight high on a hill declaring the good word is just plain foolish. And has been shown to be false by his actions since trump won.

        • Gerry Fisher

          I do think that Bernie’s actions were that of an “activist” (especially one who is enthralled with protests and confrontation to “make a point”) instead of a “politician” (who’s often ultimately focused on incremental progress, compromise, and effectiveness of implementation).

          I really believe that Bernie’s causes would have been better served (*gasp*!) in Democratic backrooms and behind closed doors. In that context, he could have built consensus among Democratic operatives, began work on electing progressive local candidates first (then state-wide and then federal and then presidential), and he could have enrolled Democrats in a way to educate the general public about how progressive politics would better serve them. (This description sounds a *lot* like what Howard Dean was trying to do, doesn’t it?)

          However, there’s a lot more ego gratification and the lure of “instant gratification” (quick fix) in running for president, slashing and burning in public the party you *claim* to be saving.

          Bernie believes in burning the village in order to save it.

      • WarrenHart

        It was going to be either Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton. If you voted for someone else and you lean left then you might as well have voted for Trump. That’s how this shit works.

      • Stephen Elliot Phillips

        Bernie and integrity? Lol

      • Gerry Fisher

        Cool. He should join the party.

  • Treant

    I’m waiting for the “It’s in the PAST, let it GO” arguments from those who enjoy deflecting criticism against Lord Bernie.

    Personally, my take is that he breezed into the party, took a shit, breezed out of the party, and deserves all the shit we throw back at him.

    • Ninja0980

      Especially since we had a chance to turn SCOTUS and several others courts into moderate/liberal ones if Hillary had won but instead we have to fear a SCOTUS that will try and overturn or finish off voting rights, LGBT rights, reproductive rights and several Circuit courts such as the 7th ,3rd and even the 9th taking a sharp turn to the right.
      And yet he and his followers made it clear they didn’t give a damn about that.
      Perhaps they will when any and all progressive legislation passed is done away with by right wing hacks.

      • Treant

        Again, grownups. It should be no surprise that the Bernie Bots were children, they were following somebody with much the same outlook on life.

        There’s a reason Bernie ain’t that popular in the Senate. He has no ability to compromise and would rather burn it down if he can’t get all the toys. He’s a lot more like Trump than he’d ever want to think about (fortunately, he’s incapable of doing so), and his cultists were nothing but the left’s tantrum-throwing Trumpeters.

        • sandollar_man

          What are ya talkin’. Bernie’s votes 80% of the time – are the same votes that Dems in congress support.
          He caucused with them. All the time he’s been in Congress.

          After listening to Senator Sanders for many years, I’m convinced that he knows that capitalism is the best economic system devised so far. But that it has failings just like all human creations.
          He wants to minimize the damage done when it fails. And it has failed us in the past. His main message is one of fairness and opportunity for the majority. It’s why he rails against the amassing of too much wealth in the hands of too few people.

          And Bernie’s been saying, for a long time, that the big banks and telecom companies should be broken up. He thinks we should have a substantial anti-monopoly approach. In order to allow capitalism to work better for all of us. Fairness.
          Each of us knows inherently, that it’s the corruption in our capitalist system that’s bringing it down.
          But we only “pretend” that we want someone to stand up to the big fat cats.
          When someone does so, we call them names and denigrate their courage.
          Who’s the one that’s really lacking the courage, here?

          • Treant

            The obnoxious fuck votes against–or does not vote–when a bill is not pure enough to deliver the toys he wants. Vis a vis, Amber’s Law.

            He lacks the courage of any convictions when the toys don’t land in his playpen. Let’s not even discuss his wife of course–entirely fair game since I got to hear about Bill from the bros.

            I don’t like him. I don’t think he has any real courage and he sure as fuck takes no risks in supporting minorities. And I have no use for him.

          • sandollar_man

            That’s because you didn’t listen to him take questions from ANY callers for 5 years every week on the Thom Hartmann radio show. I never caught him telling a lie or being duplicitous in all of those years.
            On the contrary, I called in and asked him a very difficult question. He tried hard to give me a measured response that wouldn’t compromise national security.
            When he talks about history or gives responses based on historical events, it’s always the SAME history that I remember.
            Do you understand how incredibly unusual it is to find a politician with those positive qualities.
            I find your response to a politician who gave a humanistic compassionate challenge to another politician in a primary to be wholly without understanding of the courage it takes to appear on a radio program EVERY Friday for 5 years, and take questions from people who aren’t even his constituents.
            That amazing fact alone makes him stand out as courageous and trustworthy.

          • Treant

            So you love McCain for talking a great game, too.

            Sorry, kids, I can go on a show and tell people what they want to hear. Politicians do that. It isn’t brave. You did skip over the Amber Alert vote. Vermont’s nuclear waste, foisting of on Hispanic communities. Equal marriage rights, rebuffing of.

            Noises don’t impress me, actions do. And Bernie does not impress me.

            “I find your response to a politician who gave a humanistic compassionate challenge to another politician in a primary to be wholly without understanding ”

            Condescending fuck. Both you and Bernie, actually, as he was a jackass during the primaries. Also, you just called me stupid, so that means I just blocked anything you have to say. It’s pretty typical Bernie Bro behavior; I disagree, therefore I must be dumb.

            So, y’know, fuck you and good riddance you useless piece of human garbage.

            Fourteen! Fourteen useless Bernie Bots blocked!

          • sandollar_man

            Namecalling diminishes your message.

          • leftofabbie

            That’s a message?

          • Silver_Witch

            Soon you will block enough reasonable people so you can only hear Hillary supports. Life in a bubble is pitiful.

          • Treant

            Are we up to fifteen obnoxious bitches? I’ve lost count, but whatever, you’re now one of them, and not reasonable enough to bother with nor around enough anyway. Waves bye-bye, enjoy your Bernie Bot Bubble where you’re right and the majority of people are wrong, and go fuck yourself while you’re at it.

          • Silver_Witch

            Usually pleasant person. Glad to be blocked. I use to be here a lot until those who were not blind Hillary followers were driven away.

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      • Carl

        It was obvious they were posers. When asked about courts they spouted gibberish. Your average armchair FDR wannabe has no idea how the judicial branch works.

        • Ninja0980

          My Bernie or Bust cousin thinks they can be voted out.
          If that was the case, Scalia and Thomas would have been gone long ago.

      • Lawerence Collins

        Do the actual facts not matter to you?

        • margaretpoa

          Know what’s pathetic? Anybody gullible enough to believe the right wing smears laid on the Clinton’s for the past 40 years. I mean that just speaks of an astonishing level of credulity that can only be explained by binge watching FOX “News”, listening to Rushbo and reading Bannon.
          “Actual facts”? Actual facts and the Clinton smears you swallowed hook, line and sinker have absolutely nothing in common. Congratulations. You got what you wanted.

      • downtownla

        Sorry, but the reason SCOTUS is a mess is not because of Bernie. It’s because of the DNC. If they hadn’t hoarded their money in 2014 in anticipation of Hillary’s run in 2016, they may have actually won the two Senate seats necessary to retain the Senate. Instead they rolled over then, just as they rolled over when Obama nominated Garland. The DNC calculated that the Supreme Court would be a potent driver to turn out the vote, so they didn’t fight for Garland. Garland should be on the Supreme Court right now.

        • Gerry Fisher

          He’s making an argument that the Supreme Court should have been a potent driver in getting Bernie to play more gently, especially in the final few months of primary season.

          • downtownla

            I’m saying that the DNC knew that Hillary was not a popular candidate so they needed something to bring out Democrats. The fear of a right-wing Supreme Court and the loss of abortion rights was seen as potential reason to motivate people, particularly women, to the polls. Unfortunately, it didn’t turn out that way.

        • aagold76 .

          Garland isn’t in because Republicans controlled the Senate and blocked his nomination- the DNC had nothing to do with that. AND Why oh why- should the DNC have given money to Bernie- or held any of it for him??? He was NOT a Democrat/member of the Party.

          • downtownla

            As a former employee of the DNC, I can say the party has everything to do with it. It was our job to win elections at ALL levels, not just the Presidential. When DWS took over, they ignored all the other races in anticipation of Hillary’s run in 2016. That included only backing self-funding candidates and stockpiling funds they should have expended in 2014. If they had done so, we could have held on to the Senate. If we had held on, Senate Majority Leader Reid would have put Merrick’s nomination up for a vote and he would have been confirmed. And I am not saying the DNC should have given money to Bernie. I am saying they should have given money to Hagan and Begich, two Democratic incumbents who could’ve used more funding in 2014.

        • Silver_Witch

          This. Plus 100 votes.

    • Ross

      Amen.

      Amen!

      • Treant

        Can I have one more so we can just get straight to the C-men?

        • ArchiLaw

          B-men.

          • Treant

            Damn you, ArchiLaw! Do I always have to finish myself off here?

    • Frostbite

      but it is past, what is the blame game going to for anyone at this point? it certainly isn’t going to stop north korea from launching a nuke or send the nazi’s back into the closet. so sit and cry about what could have been all you want, but you’d be better off taking action to improve the future.

      • Treant

        You’re not six because that’s actually a reasonable question.

        It’s still relevant because an outsider breezed in, damaged the process, and breezed back out. In this case, the discussion can (and should) lead to restrictions within both parties regarding who can and cannot run under their banner. Trump was not a politician but hijacked the machinery.

        Bernie is a politician but, thankfully, was unable to hijack the machinery.

        In the future, let’s work to block interlopers without portfolio. They can run as Independents if they want to. Or as Greens when Jill steals enough to retire.

        • justmeeeee

          When the queen declares herself the queen, everybody else need to step aside!!

          • RaygunsGoZap

            ABSURDOREDUCTIONISM!

          • Treant

            He’s blocked to me, so thanks!

          • Stephen Elliot Phillips

            Hasnt been on here until now that theres a hillary thread. And they say we hate bernie?

          • Treant

            Tru dat. I don’t go around searching for Bernie threads, mostly he’s inconsequential to my daily life.

        • Frostbite

          but that’s not how the system works. the democrats (and republicans, green, etc.) are their own party. they put up the candidate they want to, or who wins their runoff process. it’s the party’s choice. there shouldn’t be outside rules saying who they can and can’t put forth as a candidate (other than they have to qualify for the office of the president to begin with). to impose regulations on the parties is to corrupt the system even further, and to potentially rule out someone who could make an excellent leader.

          you’re going to say we only career politician should be able to run? that’s half of what got us into this mess to begin with.

          sure, trump hijacked the machinery, but the machinery was broken by the public to begin with.

          • Treant

            I didn’t say there should or shouldn’t be outside rules, it’s up to each party to make said rules. And actually, the Greens DO have rules that the Dems and Republicans don’t.

            I’m going to say not that career politicans should run, but that career politicians who saw a chance to grift off the Democrats should be told to deeply fuck themselves and sent off to be the Independents they always whine they are.

            And that earned you EIGHT! Eight obnoxious Bernie Bros who read whatever the fuck they want into what you clearly said…blocked!

          • pch1013

            If there was a separate Bernie Party with its own rules and elections, would it tolerate a centrist Democrat trying to hijack it?

          • Treant

            Why, of course! Because that would be completely fair in comparison to what they expect from the Democrats! /s

            Of course not, they’d whine and scream and throw tantrums until they got their way.

    • Andymac3

      That is a very compelling assessment of how Sanders used the democratic party and the damage that was caused in the months after he lost the nomination. He could have and should have thrown his full support to Hillary after losing the nomination but he had to fight way beyond what was reasonable and the divisiveness was evident at the DNC with the Bernie supporters still blaming everyone for his nomination loss. And now we have the Turd in chief in the white house and his KKK friends legislating and destroying our fragile democracy.

      • Treant

        I totally agree with you.

      • David Seelig

        and what did Hilary do when Obama had her beat the smae thing Bernie dod but Bernie also had the dnc staeling the election you hilary people are sp full of shit the most entiled idiots on the planet Hilary is a two time loser you fucked yourselves and the rest of the country

        • Carl

          I think Hillary broke the Bernie bots real good this time.

        • Andymac3

          And there we have a perfect example of the Bernie kids “whataboutism” mentality.

          • margaretpoa

            That’s because they’re all fourteen years old. Honestly I don’t see how the expected to be able to vote for him anyway since one must be eighteen to vote.

            Know what? I supported Sanders in the primary and I agree with you. The people who couldn’t let it go when he lost continue to cause problems to this day.

          • Treant

            And their very great lack of spelling and grammar.

        • Ronald Reagan is Dead!

          I am guessing spelling and grammar are not your thing.

        • fuow

          Darling, why don’t you come back in, oh, say ten years or so when you’ve learned how to write.
          Until then, a thought: Don’t make the perfect the enemy of the good.

        • Moonbeam_Song

          Did you pay any attention at all to the primaries between Clinton and Obama? It was hard fought right up until the point when she knew she could not win. She was amazingly gracious in defeat afterwards and worked hard to get Obama elected — doing FAR more than Sanders did for her when he was put in the same situation.

          Your argument, such as it is, lacks veracity.

          • danolgb

            Right? I had put together a spreadsheet that compared 2016 to 2008 and there were plenty of times in 2008 when Hillary was a head of Obama, but in 2016, Bernie was never ahead. She maintained a comfortable lead over him throughout. And everyone, but Bernie and his followers could do the math and see he never had a shot. Hillary also gave an incredible concession speech throwing her full weight behind Obama within days of the last contest. Bernie took over a month and was, shall we say, less than enthusiastic. He also did nothing to stop his minions from trying to cause chaos at the convention.

          • sandollar_man

            Incorrect, Bernie threw his full support to Hillary. He said so on many occasions.
            He was a gracious loser in that primary. Just as she was when Obama beat her.

            I don’t think Bernie would have made the same mistake that Hillary made in the general election debates with Trump. Because Bernie is a student of history and his votes against NAFTA and the Iraq war both provided proof of this:

            Hillary was not prepared correctly to take on the NAFTA issue during the debate with Trump.
            She should have taken Trumps attempt to pin it on her hubby, and spun him around on his duplicitous butt – with historical facts. Like Bernie would have done.

            1) When NAFTA passed in the Senate:
            More than 70% of the Republicans voted YES to it.
            Less than 50% of the Dems voted yes to it.
            2) When NAFTA passed in the House:
            More than 70% of the Republicans voted YES to it.
            Less than 50% of the Dems voted yes to it.

            It was a Republican majority in both the House and Senate that voted for that bill in order to put it on Bill Clinton’s desk.
            Donald wants to blame BIll because Bill didn’t act to thwart that Republican majority bill.

            She could have done a major switcheroo on Donald, and highlighted his duplicitous need to blame the one who didn’t act to undermine the Republican NAFTA bill.
            But she blew that chance.
            And the fact checkers would have concurred with her.

          • Moonbeam_Song

            His support was pro-forma at best, and he was nowhere near as good at debating as Clinton was. I’m sorry, but you are seeing him through rose-tinted glasses.

          • Silver_Witch

            Actually Bernie campaigned harder and in more places for HER than SHE did. See what bubble life does. It blinds people and lures them into believing they are winning when in fact they are losing. SHE lost to Trump through no fault but her own and her handlers.

          • Moonbeam_Song

            No, he really didn’t. I *paid attention*. He was lackluster in his appearances, he barely tamped down on the viciousness of his supporters, and while he may have gone through the motions, his support was *nowhere near* as full-throated of Clinton as Clinton was of Obama.

            I lived through both cycles and paid attention carefully. You are incorrect.

          • Silver_Witch

            Lived through both as well. Was a Dem for 40+ years. Bernie campaigned for HER often to the dismay of his supports. We shall agree to disagree. Thanks for being nice.

          • Moonbeam_Song

            We’re not going to get anywhere by continuing to snipe, so I do try hard not to lower myself to name calling or rude comments — that’s what the GOP wants. The lack of unity among Sanders and Clinton supporters is the ONLY reason Trump is in the White House.

            I respect your right to hold your opinion, but I still think you’re turning too much of a blind eye to the less-savory aspects of Sanders and his actions, and the unhelpful moments he kept having in the midst of supposedly campaigning for her.

            And I worry that if those aspects continue among the left, that we will not be unified enough in 2018 and 2020. That’s where most of my concern and urgency stems from.

          • Silver_Witch

            Totally agree. Unity would be nice. I, for one, have lost all hope of that.

    • friendlynerd

      I’ll be happy not to hear about Bernie or Hillary ever again. Neither one of them are the future of the party and looking over our shoulders at either one of them is pointless.

      • Treant

        Personally, I disagree. The Bros will cause problems for at least another year. Bernie actually threatened to run again. My guess is that the entire thing dies out, but some long-term influence isn’t completely impossible.

        Hillary, as a former Senator, First Lady, and candidate, will continue to influence the party for the rest of her life. She’s one of the most recognizable people in the world. And she’s got plenty of proteges.

        • pablo

          She was a disaster as both a senator and Sec of State.

          • Treant

            SEVEN!

      • pablo

        I guarantee she’s running in 2020.

        • pablo

          Oh, and apparently she hasn’t learned from her mistakes.

          • Carl

            I smell multiple accounts on this one.

          • pablo

            No doubt from Russia!

          • Carl

            Nah, those are on Facebook and Twitter. You are the guys gullible enough to copy and paste Russian bots everywhere because you need to be told what to think are who to be angry at.

          • pablo

            So Hillary didn’t vote for the Iraq War? That was a Russian lie? You re a Clintonologist OT level 10!

          • Carl

            No, that happened. But I didn’t allow that past mistake to sway me from voting for the only viable candidate standing between me and the greatest fascist evil this country has seen in my lifetime.

            Don’t explain your inability to move an inch to me. Go tell the Dreamers. Go tell it to our transgender soldiers.

    • JCF

      I’m less concerned at “throwing shit” at him, than saying “we Democrats are NOT taking your bullshit again, Bernie”. Your time—and yes, Hillary’s too—has come and GONE.

      • Frostbite

        that’s great and all. but who’s time is here? unless they can come up with an appealing candidate they have no one to run.

        • JCF

          I’m really not worried. There are PLENTY of qualified Dems…and I’m fine w/ them taking their time. We need to FOCUS on the midterms now (and doing everything we can to keep the investigative pressure on Drumpf!). The Presidential contest will take shape after that—no use to put Drumpf/Rethug pressure on our potential candidates before then.

          • Lizard

            Honestly, I’d be really annoyed if Dems were already announcing candidacy for 2020. We need to get through 2018 first.

          • pch1013

            No Democrats have announced yet, but the BernieBros are already taking aim at putative front-runner Kamala Harris. Because that’s how little they actually care about defeating Trump.

          • robindaybird

            Nevermind their Cult Leader would be 79 during 2020 run, and men tend to just fucking drop dead at that age.

          • Carl

            Every day I wake up hoping a certain 71 year old sociopath has done just that….

          • Cipher

            If she fought alongside Che Guevara she wouldn’t be socialist enough…

          • JustDucky

            They turned on Elizabeth Warren, too.

            I wonder if there is anything Hillary Clinton, Elizabeth Warren, and Kamala Harris all have in common.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d4ce0488bd0706598306cc9e59924c21687e0592220463e3641587b7bd2b6037.jpg

          • Silver_Witch

            Yes they all have in common one thing. They are paid by corporations to support the 1% and blame the common man for her own ills. Like many politicians… it’s about the money and only the money. Okay a little power too but mostly money.

          • JustDucky

            I’m sure that sounded much more convincing in the original Russian.

          • AndyinChicago

            I think we need to start worrying about that. I completely agree that the time of Bernie and Hillary is in the past, but we know that elections are largely influenced by personality and temperament. We need to have a new face that can really bridge the divides within the party and with other people dissatisfied with Trump, and we need to have them establish themselves as a leader. I really want to see someone who comes across as a clear leader of the opposition against Trump. Hopefully, someone who’s a clear agent of change distinct from the failures that were both the Sanders and Clinton campaigns.

      • Gerry Fisher

        I like your succinct assessment. Both of them: your time has come and gone.

      • Moonbeam_Song

        I agree. Lately Sanders has not been a cohesive, compromising force on the left, but rather continues to be divisive. I don’t necessarily think that’s all his fault, unfortunately a lot of his most engaged supporters are driving the divisiveness.

        So I do not think he should have a leadership role in a party he (once again) does not belong to, and I do not care for his supporters’ “my way or the highway” attitude regarding policy or direction.

        Clinton also should not run again, although I suspect she will remain an “elder voice” of guidance in the party, much as Bill Clinton, Joe Biden, and Barack Obama will be. (I think Sanders *could* have this role if he chose, I just don’t see him shifting into that role yet. It still feels a little too much like he’s fighting the primary fight all over again.)

        Trump is what happens when the middle-left to left spectrum is divided.

        We need a uniter, and I think that means someone who can speak to both the Clinton and Sanders wings of the party.

    • Gerry Fisher

      Ohhhh, but he’s “right.” /s

    • Jacob

      And here you go. It’s time for HRC to take her pay for play, civilian murdering, NGO destabilizing final gig and GO TO THE WOOD for good. Her dynasty is no different than the Bushes. Maybe someday you’ll wake up and care about more than your lip service to the world.

      • Treant

        Thirteen! Thirteen lying Bernie Bros who swallowed Russian crap and that I’ve blocked today! Ah-Ah-Ah, thirteen!

    • Parque_Hundido

      Get out of my party. Clinton was in all key elements a nixonian Republican. That you want to take a dump all over the best chance at growing the Democratic party identifies you as precisely the sort of sclerotic, toxic fool that led the party to it’s current pathetic state.

      You are the problem. Get out of my party.

  • Michael

    Yeah the Clintonites are just like their beloved. Want to blame everyone else but themselves. No, Hillary, it wasn’t anyone’s fault but your own as to why you lost the election.

    • Gustav2

      She doesn’t just blame Bernie in the book and takes blame herself. This is just a snippet.

      • Michael

        Notice though we have only seen the snippets on this site where she blames Trump and Sanders. Its been the running theme here.

        • Gustav2

          It is the parts other MSM outlets have covered, that’s the running theme—to get clicks for the MSM.

          I don’t think Joe got an advance copy.

        • TCinBerkeley

          Maybe you should cancel your subscription.

  • Jonathan Smith
    • Todd20036

      I pretty much blocked all of them.

      Fuck em

      • Treant

        Ditto. This thread should scare out the last of the crop for blocking.

        • justmeeeee

          Hey, you missed me while licking the boots of your dear queen yet again.

      • Jonathan Smith

        I’m still working on that.
        JMG posted this article to make sure we got the rest of them….

        • Treant

          Two so far!

        • justmeeeee

          Me me, ya fucking wanker.

      • Ninja0980

        Same here.

      • justmeeeee

        Blow me, bitch, then block me, please.

        • Karl Dubhe

          Since you asked so nicely. Of course I’ll block you.

          Bye.

    • Karl Dubhe

      Are there still bernie bots? I thought the Russians would have pulled the funding by now.

      • Carl

        They will copy and paste the work of Russian bots until the end of time.

    • Carl

      Bernie has no credibility. He’s kinda a joke now. I wish people would stop trying to make this guy a thing. He’s not going to be a thing.

      And we can’t both sides the away. We have an entitled left wing fringe that hates the Democratic Party more than it dislikes the Republicans. Mosty its a bunch a white bros who are pissed that minorities are the main base and they don’t have the numbers to push everybody else around. We have to call them out. Good for Clinton for doing so.

      • JustDucky

        Can we please stop calling these white libertarian assholes the “left wing” fringe? I’m on the fringe of the left and I voted for Hillz with bells on.

        In this country, “liberal” is synonymous with “progressive” and you don’t make progress by refusing to vote against a racist misogynistic neonazi because you want to “teach” minorities “a lesson.”

        • JCF
        • Carl

          Now, granted, their positions may shift with the wind. But if they’re screaming for single payer and free college, it’s a bit hard to call them libertarians. If they were against passing Obamacare as the first step to single payer despite how many people it would insure, they qualify as an outlier.

          They’re liberals of convenience. Like Trump supporters, they’re really just here for the emotional catharsis.

          • JustDucky

            You’d be hard-pressed to find many libertarians in this country who don’t want the government to pay for the stuff they need or want. But you can easily sort them from the socialists by asking them how they’d feel about paying a 50% (or higher, if they are wealthy) tax rate to pay for the stuff that other people need or want.

            Wanting free shit doesn’t make you a socialist.

          • vorpal 😼

            Hubby occasionally says he’s a libertarian.

            I remind him that he’s not by telling him that since he’s for tighter restrictions on corporations and controlled capitalism and for socially provided services, he’s actually a liberal. Then I bitchslap him in hopes that he remembers.

            Don’t feel sorry for him: he just woke me up from a two hour nap.
            You do NOT wake vorpal up from naps, EVER EVER EVER, unless you are willing to pay the price. =irritated yowls=

            At least he is atoning through the preparation of my caffeine, and he voted for Hillary in the election.

  • The_Wretched

    I’m staying out of the comments here except to say —- really? all the issues of the election an beating the dead horse is the way to go? Dems will lose and continue to lose and we’ll all suffer for it if they can’t focus on 1. A positive message 2. stop attacking the left. She’s their standard bearer and is leading Dem focus. This is it? this is failure.

    • Uncle Mark

      THANK YOU !!!

    • -M-

      Re2: The left needs to stop attacking the slightly less left as well.

      • The_Wretched

        It’s defensive on my part (I didn’t write a book and am not a national figure) but point taken.

  • Henry Auvil

    As much as I mourn Clinton’s tragic loss in November, (and I do it every single day), I kinda don’t give a shit what she has to say at this point. Pointing fingers and settling scores is not going to save us now.

    • bkmn

      Bernie is locked and loaded for a repeat appearance in 2020, so I am fine with her calling him out

      • Karl Dubhe

        By 2020 he’ll be how old?

        He’s not going to be running again. I’d hope he doesn’t run for the Senate again either.

      • Do Something Nice

        I doubt that he will run, and I hope he doesn’t run, but being disrespected by Clinton should get him votes.

      • justmeeeee

        RIght, because we need four more years of El Cheeto’s leadership, right, honey?

    • Clyde’s Stuff

      Funny, nobody’s saying that to his majesty the Bernie King. Frankly, I’m glad she’s laying it on. Maybe she should have laid this crap on him during the election but people like you would have boo hooed and excoriated her if she had. She can’t win with you people regardless of what she does.

    • DJ John Bear

      But hopefully it would serve as a lesson well-learned.

    • Andy Lykus

      Translation: This little lady should shut up and let the men folk resume control.

      Interesting that people aren’t telling Bernie to pipe down.

      • Karl Dubhe

        Bernie is still in office. She’s not.

        Although, he is an independent again. So, I don’t think he has much to say about anything in the Dem party.

      • Do Something Nice

        Translation: I can’t develop a reasoned response so I’ll play the misogyny card.

        • jsmukg

          Translating you: I hate that bitch so I’ll use Rethug tactics and cliches (‘the misogyny card?’ REALLY?) in an impotent attempt to discredit those who make sensible, reasonable responses to the blatant misogyny against her… ’cause VAGINA!

          • Do Something Nice

            lol! Good to see that unhinged people are represented here.

          • jsmukg

            Nice to see that Joe doesn’t actually block misogynist Berniebrat BROFLAKE scum here. Remarkably tolerant of him.

      • Reality.Bites

        Probably most of them aren’t aware he’s still talking.

  • Do Something Nice

    Sour grapes. Obama didn’t disrespect Clinton even though her campaign against him was despicable This shows that Clinton is more like Trump than Obama.

    Fuck her.

    PS: While I supported Sanders and voted for Clinton, I saw Sanders as being problematic too. I don’t worship the man.

    • Blake Mason

      That is politics… and those are politicians for ya. Don’t trust any of the personally.

  • guest2

    Look, I’m not going to say that Bernie would have won or that Clinton did not win the primary. We can’t really know if he would have, and she did win the primary. That said;

    1.) The absolute refusal to understand that the electorate has been demanding real systemic change since the end of Bush W’s term ( Obama, Bernie, and yes Trump all campaigned on big change and were rewarded for doing so) Is pretty galling. Stock standard democratic managerial appeals to experience and stability won’t work when a huge swath of the country wants something radically different because they feel increasingly left out of the growth and prosperity of this country. Clinton did not offer that and that’s why she couldn’t find a voter base outside of large cities.

    2.) The left has always submitted to the centrist wing of the democratic party in the past and it hasn’t gotten us anywhere. Coalitions are only worthwhile if all members of that coalition benefit from participating. Single Payer healthcare, a national minimum wage increase, and even maternity leave have all been shot down by “fellow” democrats. In the future if they want to receive the support of the left they have to give us something, not just expect blind obedience and a faith in incrementalism. I firmly believe that had Clinton picked a popular progressive VP like Sanders or Warren this schism could have been avoided, but she didn’t do that. She couldn’t give the left *anything* so she shouldn’t expect the left to follow after her as a result. People don’t vote *against* things they vote *for* things.

    3.) Clinton mentions that Bernie wasn’t and isn’t a real democrat. So what? Party loyalty is a useless idea. Why should the voter base be interested in protecting party cohesion when the party doesn’t return the favor and offer something back?

    4.) At the end of the day, Bernie supporters did not give us Trump. Despair did. The vast majority of the electorate does not vote. Gerrymandering and economic factors ( cant’ get work off, can’t get a ride to the polling location, etc) contribute to this, but the real explanation is that Americans by and large no longer believe that our government can make a positive difference in their lives. They’ve given up on politics altogether because they don’t see a point. That is the fault of the democratic party as much as it is the fault of the republican party. Grow up and accept some of the blame.

    • Gustav2

      Good Lord, you didn’t read the platform did you.

      • Treant

        No, but they’re generally incapable of understanding more than a few snippets of text. Regardless, it gives me the opportunity to block the fools.

        Not to mention that, in point 2, they don’t seem to understand that the “moderate” (read: Not Completely Sold On That Full-Tilt Socialism Thing) left outnumbers them. By a lot.

        • Gustav2

          And Party loyalty is how grown ups get things done.

          • Treant

            Key word, “Grown ups.”

          • guest2

            “And Party loyalty is how grown ups get things done.”

            Well, unfortunately no it’s not. Extreme loyalty in fact often makes it *less* likely that the concerns of your group in question are heard. there needs to be a risk of either joining the other side, or in this case complete disaffection from the system entirely in order for the system to work. I highly reccommend reading the FiveThirtyEight article “Black Voters Are So Loyal That Their Issues Get Ignored”

            while the reasons for extreme loyalty are varied ( and as is the case with racial groups often completely legitimate) the truth is that loyalty only works to sublimate the needs and demands of lesser groups within coalitions.

          • Gustav2

            I said Party loyalty, not extreme loyalty.

            Reading is fundamental.

          • guest2

            i used extreme loyalty as a term to describe groups within parties that have become very highly attached to one party and often can’t or wont move to the alternative party. I just made it up, or at least I thought i did. If it describes a prexisting term that I was unaware of then hopefully this serves as a correction for what I meant to say.

          • Gustav2

            So you didn’t answer my post. you are blocked

          • guest2

            Sure I did. I showed that Party loyalty doesn’t actually work to advance the interests of all groups within parties and in fact often contributes to many groups within parties getting their issues ignored. As such party loyalty is in many cases not actually a good thing for many groups within political parties.

        • guest2

          >Not to mention that, in point 2, they don’t seem to understand that the “moderate”left outnumbers them. By a lot.

          That’s fine. *but* my primary point is that if they wanted to earn the support of the left then they should’ve offered something bigger, than what they did. Something like a big role in the administration, or a big policy adoption from the sanders wing. As I said earlier in my original post Hilary *did* win the campaign but if she wanted to heal the schism that developed from the primary she should’ve made moves to do so.

          • Treant

            They changed the platform to incorporate most points that didn’t suck. Quite frankly, about the only thing left would be for her to grow a penis and testicles and lose the breasts and ovaries.

            So, y’know, fuck off and all. And as a breeze-in guest, I have no second thoughts about enacting a permanent block. ETA; So, FOUR! Or is that Five? Well, good riddance in any case.

          • guest2

            >So, y’know, fuck off and all. And as a breeze-in guest, I have no second thoughts about enacting a permanent block.

            I do absolutely understand your frustration. The current political climate especially online has been heated to say the least. but I haven’t made any comments or points about Clinton’s gender and I’ve worked to not be contentious throughout this discussion.

            I want to clarify that I did vote for Clinton and of course, she would have made a better president, but my overall point has been that if we want to actually advance the interests of the democratic party the party needs to offer the left something to heal the division, not expect blind submission.

        • Do Something Nice

          To your point about #2: That is not true among young voters who stayed away on election day (as they usually do) because they weren’t inspired.

      • Do Something Nice

        The platform that included some of what Sanders wanted ONLY to placate Sanders voters? If she had sincerely run on those things, she may have won.

        In 2008, Clinton was the centrist candidate and Obama was seen as leftist. And he won.

        • Gustav2

          You poor dears, you didn’t want to compromise and didn’t care to listen to her campaign…not that she was the best motivator or speaker.

          • Do Something Nice

            I voted for Clinton. It was a compromise for me.

          • Gustav2

            Good for you, a large percentage of Bernie Bros voted for Trump.

          • Do Something Nice

            That is 100% bullshit. The vast majority of Sanders supporters voted for Clinton. A tiny but vocal minority sat out the election, as did a minority (16%) of Clinton supporters chose to vote for McCain than for Obama, even though 28% of them threatened to vote for McCain if Obama won the primary in 2008.

            https://www.cbsnews.com/news/who-were-those-clinton-mccain-crossover-voters/

          • Gustav2
          • Do Something Nice

            16% > 1 in 10. So Clinton supporters are worse.

            1 in 10 is a minority. Can we stop debating this? Pissed off losers in the primary often bail IN EVERY ELECTION. Putting this on Sanders is bullshit.

          • Gustav2

            Thank you for saying they were pissed off losers and did it out of spite. That is not normal.

          • Do Something Nice

            It is normal in every election in the US. And it isn’t always out of spite. Many people who voted FOR Clinton were really voting against Trump. And many voters who voted FOR Trump were really voting against Clinton.

            Of course, I think it was crazy for anyone to vote for Trump, just as I did with Clinton voters who voted for McCain instead of Obama

          • picalane

            Thankyou for speaking the truth. Hillary now blaming Bernie is one of her traits that made her the second choice for many of us, though we did vote for her. One only needs to follow this thread to see the same blame game played out among the JMG commenters, so proudly patting each other on the back for blocking another commenter whom they disagree w/. That smug attitude is what’s ripping the Dems apart. The majority of Bernie supporters were first time voters and had no obligation to Dems or to Hillary. Her pointing the finger at Bernie now, suggests her loyalty is not to the party, but more importantly to herself.

          • unsavedheathen

            You will never change their tune on this. It would demand a degree of self-awareness they do not possess..

          • Ninja0980

            Thus showing they aren’t progressives and never were.

    • Karl Dubhe

      38 comment new sock puppet shows up.

      What was his name? Bill something?

      • vorpal 😼

        Haven’t heard from him in ages. (Not complaining: just noting.)

        I wonder if he died and they had to knock a hole in his mommy’s basement to remove his bloated obese corpse after prying the ctrl-c ctrl-v keys out of his fingers? One can only hope.

        • Karl Dubhe

          I’ve cleared my blocked list last week, he’s not shown up anywhere I’ve been posting.

          Maybe he’s found a home at Breitbart. They’ll love him…

    • Ernest Endevor

      I’ll get the Peter, Paul, and Mary album, you bring the drums.

    • leo77

      “…but the real explanation is that Americans by and large no longer believe that our government can make a positive difference in their lives.”

      This is a key learning arrived at by a professor at the University of Wisconsin. Unfortunately I’m drawing a blank on her name, but she’s been going into that state’s small rural communities in an effort to better understand the state’s swing rightward. Overwhelmingly what she hears is that government hasn’t had any positive effects on these communities in decades. Soooo, might as well go with the party of smaller government, might as well go with the guy who has no experience in government.

      • guest2

        Thanks for your informed and intelligent comment!

  • TheManicMechanic

    GET TO DA CHOPPAH!

  • Akrontru

    Just an amazing lack of grace towards Bernie, who campaigned his ass off for Clinton–far more than most defeated primary candidates.

    I, very reluctantly, voted for Clinton in the general election. One of the reasons that I almost didn’t was the attitude of commenters here, and I see that nothing has changed. I suggest that you read about the DLC.

    • Treant

      Three! And no, from the Grumpy-Ass Crap at the Convention, to the half-hearted occasional speech he gave, Bernie did shit for her and made no effort to convert his followers into hers. As you can see from this thread.

      • Akrontru

        As I recall, Bernie pissed me off because he worked so hard for the dreadful Clinton.

        • PiperPine

          That certainly is an interesting recollection.

    • Ninja0980

      That was after he dragged out the primaries when it was clear he couldn’t win and poisoned the well so much that many of his supporters voted third party or stayed home.

      • Lazycrockett

        Bernie was done what? mid March? delegate wise.

      • Snarky

        And one in 10 Bernie supporters voted for Trump. Clearly when he “campaigned his ass off” (sic) for Clinton, he didn’t leave much of an impression on his followers.

    • Michael R

      I don’t remember the ” campaigned his ass off ” part

      • Ross

        Yea.

        I don’t remember that part, either.

      • PiperPine

        Same to be honest. He spoke at the convention. I think gave a speech somewhere? Maybe? Honestly I’d want to see a timeline of what he did to “campaign his ass off” for her.

    • AC

      except…not nearly as much as the primary-defeated Clinton campaigned for Obama. Go fuck yourself

    • tbj5

      You can’t be graceful after you drag your already defeated campaign all the way to nomination day. He knew he lost, and he had to have known that by not conceding when he should have, he would turn this into a more bitter and less.unified party, with people such as yourself resentful at Hillary for petty amd wrong reasons.

    • Uncle Mark

      SERIOUSLY?!! I was a Bernie supporter in the primary…and got into rather heated debates with pro-Clinton supporters. A number of times the arguments devolved into ad hominem attacks…but I made DAMNED SURE that I early-voted for Hillary when it came to the general election. I wanted to make sure nothing would keep my vote from counting. Anyone paying attention could see what a nightmare Trump was and I can’t believe that one would put aside common sense and personal interests because some stranger(s) online was mean to them.

      That being said, we need to unite around our common goals and interests and cease division over past sins. Chastising potential allies won’t help us in taking back the gov’t in 2018/2020

      • UrsusArctos
      • PiperPine

        Its a great sentiment but people are people and unlike in 2000 when Democrats, I’d argue wrongly, blamed Nader for the loss this time its an internal argument over who could have done what better. None of the nine major factions and thirteen or so minor ones in the Democratic party are willing to really admit blame or even what their common goals are going forward. This will be a several years long public fight in my opinion as the Democrats (and the various Progressive, Socialist, Liberal etc. outside groups) try to figure out how to restructure a coalition.

  • Before any but hurt Bernie bros comes in and bitch “real progressives”: Compare Bernie and Hillary’s policies. They were identical for all intents are purposes. Both Hillary and Bernie are center right and not a single god damn leftists who voted for Hillary will tell you she’s a progressive hero. But tell me why is a woman somehow magically less Progressive than an old white dude? And this applies to Kamala Harris too since you fuaxgressives are attacking her now. How is it that a black woman whose policies are identical to an old white dude is less progressive than said white dude? 💅🏽

    • Michael

      Well it says a lot when one always had those positions and the other only had them when it wouldn’t lose her any votes.

    • That_Looks_Delicious

      And Nancy Pelosi. They’re pushing Tim Ryan to lead the House Dems while Tim Ryan is talking tax cuts for millionaires. Some progressive.

      Anybody else see the pattern?

      • Ninja0980

        Can’t put my finger on it…something to do with gender perhaps?

      • That’s the other thing too: They’ll rave about how they didn’t vote for Hillary because “they have standards”. But none of them says shit when Bernie push and support anti-choice candidates. I question these people’s standards. (And unfortunately being the spineless gits they are, the Dems are cowering to the Bernie bros and now taking anti-choice anti-women candidates in the name of “Progress”.)

    • And then tell my why 10% of Bernie voters voted for the obvious white supremacist when they believed that Hillary wasn’t a perfect candidate. Or white the loudest Bernie bros are now saying that we’re mean for calling people Nazis?

      • Lazycrockett

        Vagina.

        • Andymac3

          Vagina is so under-rated, there I said it.

          • JCF

            Vagina, like pizza: “even when it’s bad, it’s still pretty good.” [paraphrase from a quote attributed to the movie “Threesome”? (I’m doubting that origin)]

      • Sam

        It was 12%. The report showed 12% of Bernie supporters voted for Trump. Also, 13% of Obama voters (a significantly larger group) voted for Trump. Of course no one bothers to mention the part of the report that shows these were composed almost entirely of cross-over Republicans and Independents, not Democrats or Progressives.

        Oh, and 25% of Clinton supporters voted for McCain in 2008.

        • Ernest Endevor

          Obama wasn’t actually running.

          • Karl Dubhe

            I read that as people who had voted for Obama voted for Trump because they hate women more than they like their nation.

          • Ernest Endevor

            Do we know that with any sort of certainty?

          • Karl Dubhe

            Nope. I just read all stats like that as opinions.

            Voting is on secret ballots. It’s really hard to find out who you actually voted for. At least in Canada. You guys register to vote while stating your political party, right? But even then, there’s no automatic way to find out whether or not you voted for the party you registered as. (is there?)

            We just register to vote. (ok, there are tax breaks if you donate to a political party, but you’ve got to earn enough to bother with shit like that.)

          • Sam

            We’re talking about Obama’s voters from 2008 and 2012 that Clinton was unable to retain for her run in 2016.

      • buckguy

        Oddly, this is the only fractional breakout we get. I would guess that Hillary didn’t hold on to 100% of her primary voters, while some GOPers cross the aisle for the presidential vote. This is just a distracting factoid based on a small number of people.

    • melllt
      • melllt

        My apologies to clymers twitter feed, who posted this from somone elses twitter feed.

      • Ernest Endevor

        Wow. That’s awfully good.

      • justmeeeee

        Intellectual dishonesty at its best. If it helps you feel better, have at it!

      • Carl

        It’s was easier for them to project all their hopes on a phony white man and all their fears on a genuine woman. It was all sexism. It was a more low-key, passive form of sexism than the kind we’re used to fighting on the right, but still sexism all the same.

    • justmeeeee

      Could it be something to do with her murderous war-mongering? Huh? Could it be that?

    • JCF

      “Both Hillary and Bernie are center right”

      By Canadian standards? By Western European Standards?

    • pablo

      You’ve got to be kidding. Which candidate voted for the Iraq War? Which candidate voted for the terrible bankruptcy bill? Who was against gay marriage until it got popular? Which candidate was against Glass-Steagall? Which candidate received briefcases full of cash to give ass kissing speeches to Goldman-Sachs? But yeah you’re right, progressives just didn’t like her because she’s a woman.

  • Blake Mason

    She just change the title… but I am sure the sentiment is the same…http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/279/094/fd5.jpg

    • Treant

      I’d read the shit outta that book.

  • bkmn

    Bernie eventually came around and supported her but he did nothing to silence his surrogates who continued to blast her every chance they got – he needs to be called out for that.

    • Lazycrockett

      Yep Nina sure as shit didn’t support Hillary in the GE and she was on MSNBC constantly harping bout it.

    • DreadPikathulhu

      It makes me fucking SICK. I watched the GOP tear Hillary apart for almost 25 years and they succeeded in burying their lies in the consciences of generations of voters, which Bernie took advantage of to keep the primary going well past the date where he had any chance.

      • JCF

        THIS. I don’t resent Bernie running. I resent that Bernie KEPT running, when it was abundantly obvious that he couldn’t win the nomination—he could ONLY weaken Hillary.

        • David Seelig

          Hilary did the same thing against Obama. Hilary lost becuase she was a shitty candidate who has a crummy past Walmart GMOS Drones the ultimate insider in and outsiders year

        • mark99k

          That’s very one-sided. Clinton kept her 2008 primary run going well past her obvious defeat point. And Obama’s nomination was followed by a long, nasty campaign by Clinton supporters (see: PUMA), threatening to stay home or vote non-Dem if she wasn’t given the VP slot — so basically nomination by extortion. During that period I was physically threatened on a public bus, in broad daylight, for wearing an Obama button, by a harrumphing oaf plastered with Hillary stickers, clearly looking for a fight.

          Clinton’s campaigns were both deeply flawed, and her problems in 2016 were largely irrelevant to Sanders’ presence. Also, the DNC’s blatant dishonesty this time around did far more lasting damage to the Democratic brand than Sanders’ participation ever could have. If someone needs to be crucified, I suggest Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, for obvious reasons.

          • EDinMCO

            DWS’s shenanigans just about made me quit the party. She’s not part of the problem, she IS the problem.

          • mark99k

            Fully agree. And yet her well-documented fuckery is rarely mentioned in the “purified” histories of the convention. I haven’t read Clinton’s book (and don’t plan to) but I’d be surprised if DWS is mentioned at all.

          • JCF

            Oh bullshit. I was publicly an Obama-supporter (in Michigan, which in 2008 had no clear winner, for strange reasons); I never experienced ANY harrassment from Hillary supporters.

            PUMA? What was that, a website, a mailing list, a couple of angry (check for dementia) grandmothers? They were NOTHING. There was ZERO problem uniting the Democratic Party—and well before the Convention. Hillary (obviously) didn’t demand the Veep slot; she enthusiastically asked for Obama’s nomination by acclamation.

            “Debbie Wasserman-Schultz”: nothing she actually DID (to favor Hillary) was in any way more significant than HOW we learned what she did/didn’t do: RUSSIAN HACKING. [If you don’t mention Russian hacking in the same breath as DWS, then seriously just STFU.]

            Not having it. DEMOCRATS need to re-build our Russian hacked/Rethug-betrayed party—not whatever brand of trollish history-revisionist you are. Bye!

          • mark99k

            Sorry dear, it’s not bullshit, but the screechy tone of your response mirrors the vitriol I’ve experienced from Clinton supporters many times. No point arguing with someone who can’t use their indoor voice.

    • David Seelig

      bullshit he told his supporters to vote for her.

      • bkmn

        That is true but he did not silence several of his surrogates that blasted her up to election day

  • Michael R

    Bernie should have run as a republican .

  • First of all, Hillary deserves the chance to get her two cents out, and Bernie his for that matter. I do not see this catharsis as being harmful– although to be honest reading this book is not high on my list — even though I supported Hillary last year. Second, the two wings of the Democratic Party need to concentrate on retaking the House and holding losses in the Senate to a bare minimum in 2018. Both wings are playing nice in the Senate — under the leadership of Schumer, Feinstein, Warren, and Sanders — this is why total party unity has blocked the Republican destruction of the ACA for example. Let’s hold off bickering until after next year — we will have enough of it going into the 2020 primaries. Third — if the Bernie Sanders supporters think that Clinton supporters are going to smile and say “hey, it is your guys turn- we had our shot”, there is no friggin way I am willing to let Sanders be the Democratic Party standard bearer in 2020. He has not earned it, nor has he proven to be committed to building the party. Opportunist is more like it. It is time for a fresh progressive face. Let’s move on — but not to Bernie. Addendum — And, if he wins the nomination in 2020 of course I will support him.

    • justmeeeee

      We could always move back to Hillary, right? I mean, surely she’d be willing. Surely.

      • I think we need new candidates. My guess is she realizes this also.

        • leo77

          Absolutely! Everyone joked about all the Republican contenders, but what does it say about the Dems that their bench is so shallow? We need to cultivate new talent and perhaps look beyond career politicians and into the private sector.

        • pablo

          LOL! Guess again.

    • Beagle

      Ideally — I’d also like to see the two wings get together to draft legislation to introduce on Day 1 of the next Congress. Say, half a dozen bills that would constitute comprehensive plans to deal with half a dozen issues. For example, infrastructure, taxation, civil rights/voter rights, health care. Call it an American Agenda.
      In a truly ideal world, there would be a short, pithy slogan for each bill, to campaign on.

    • pablo

      The party needs Howard Dean’s Fifty State Strategy that won them success ten years ago. They also need to concentrate on winning governorships.

  • AJA

    I liked Bernie. Voted for him in the primary, even.

    That being said, I was not upset when Hilary won the nomination. Because, as she says, they are VERY similar in policy.

    My hope is, that through all of this, the presence and popularity of Sanders moves the party left, and that the “Bernie Bros” take that as a sign of a job well-done and stop trying to sabotage a good thing next time.

    • Tomcat

      Keep moving any further left and you will NEVER win again.

      • Karl Dubhe

        If the Overton window keeps on moving right…

        Goddamnit, Mr. Conservative couldn’t get a republican nomination these days. And you want to keep on embracing the values of the richest?

        That is also likely to generate more losses. Why vote D, if they’re going to govern like Rs?

      • Do Something Nice

        In 2008, Obama was the leftist candidate and Clinton the centrist. Obama won the primary and the general. History shows that you are wrong.

  • Tomcat

    Screw it, too many of you did not want Hillary and because of that I am going to my grave without ever seeing the benefit of a female president. So basically I no longer care what today’s youth will deal with in the future. You reap what you sow.

  • Jonathan Smith
  • Alister

    All Truth. No Shade.

  • JWC

    OK Hillary Fine promote your book and get you bucks But its a dead subject We all know what went on We all Know that the stupid dance that went on that cost you every thing We all know that we have Trump as President Quit harping about the past You and Be5rnie clear the stage Let the DNC get new people and move on If you keep wallowing in tha past you will have Trump for 2 terms

    • Ross

      We?

      We?

      You don’t speak for me.

      • JWC

        never said I did speak for you We is a word meaning mor than one

    • justme

      Just what republicans want.. Whine and cry YOU helped to make the current situation possible

      • Ernest Endevor

        That’s not a US voter. Merely a foreigner who knows How We Should Do It Better.

    • Do Something Nice

      Yeah, don’t count on the DNC for shit. The establishment spewing lies about Ellison supporting Hamas to rile Jewish voters against him so that Perez would win was a despicable tactic.

    • John Ruff

      Try punctuation next time. It’s AWESOME.

      • JWC

        everyone love the puncuation police

        • John Ruff

          At least it makes you point appear more educated and thoughtful. #giantrunonsentence

          • JWC

            at at time where you have an idiot in the white house another idiot wanting a war and another idiot invading your government You are getting bent out of shape over punctuation?

          • John Ruff

            Yes. How do intend to argue valid points with your opponents if you can’t clearly elucidate your points? Why are you getting so defensive?

          • JWC

            have a great day

  • Lazycrockett

    This is not shade, its the truth.

  • PiperPine

    Not a surprising thing to include in the book it was clear by the convention that neither Senator Sanders or Secretary Clinton felt any sympathy for the other. It was a bruising campaign. Its also clear the various factions in the Democratic Party and outside of it in the larger political sphere see and feel no reason to find equanimity for now. We’ll see how that plays out in 2018 (when inevitably the Democrats will not retake either chamber in congress due to the nature of the map in the Senate and gerrymandering in the House) and 2020 of course. To my mind this book is just one more spark in a bonfire of annoyances that wont be leaving any time soon.

    • PiperPine

      Personally though while I know it is sumpremely petty I wish she would spend a paragraph going after Jill “Wifi-causes cancer” Stein and her 9/11 trutherism. I realize that is incredibly petty but I do so hate that anti-vaxxer 😀

  • tbj5

    I’m sure there’s plenty more in this book, but what a surprise that people are still trying to rile up the far-left Bernie bros by pushing this excerpt into the front.

    • Lazycrockett

      The Bro’s new push is to get rid of primaries and go all caucus. SMGDH

      • Treant

        Didn’t Maine and one other just go the other way due to their recognition of the inherent inequality of caucuses?

        • Lazycrockett

          Yes I think Washington state?

          • mdub in Puyallup

            I live in Washington State and have not heard they are going away. I caucused for the first time in 2016…it was a horrible experience. I spent three hours at the first one, then five hours at the next level one (full disclosure – I was for Hillary, but I was in the vast minority). Bernie won the caucus, but then we had a primary (that apparently didn’t count) where you just submitted a vote. Hillary won that easily. I am all for getting rid of caucuses because they are nothing more than a lovefest for the preferred candidate, and the things I heard…most of the participants were not well-informed on the issues (and that’s being nice).

      • UrsusArctos

        The real threat to Democrats is the “Jungle Primary”. It allowed a faster consolidation go power on the GOP side in the south and will do so elsewhere. Louisiana is a prime example. The idea sounds good, but when the choice comes down to the least bad of 2 GOPers there isn’t a choice for Democrats.

    • Do Something Nice

      It’s because in their minds, Clinton did no wrong so they need to blame her losing to the most vile candidate in recent history on somebody.

      • UrsusArctos

        As far as I saw, and said long before the election, the largest hurdle HRC had to clear was 40+ years of GOP slime, investigations, and innuendo. Unfortunately the country wasn’t looking at the choice they had, but preferred to pile on HRC once again because it had by then became reflexive.

        • Do Something Nice

          I agree. Had she not been the target of that vile smear campaign from that nutcase in Arkansas, she may have had a better chance. But the campaign did make mistakes – not setting foot in Wisconsin, not bothering to return calls to the DNC lead for the state of Ohio, her flubs, and talking about Trumps harassment of the beauty pageant participant a bit too early. But nothing throttled her (and us) like Comey and good old American sexism. There’s plenty of blame to go around, but JMG commenters seem to think that it was all Bernie’s fault. They are wrong.

          • UrsusArctos

            That “nutcase in Arkansas” was dredged up by Kellyanne Conway’s husband. They were GOP operatives back in Arkansas. The GOP machine has hated and actively smeared BOTH Clintons for almost 40 years. The GOP plays the long game, vs Democrats who commit factional mutual seppuku over the most recent election. *sigh*

      • tbj5

        Yes. Clearly the Clinton supporters are trying to upset the Bernie bros intentionally.

        I think you’re proving the opposite case you think you’re making.

  • Ninja0980

    https://twitter.com/NomikiKonst/status/905116046318866433
    Bernie has done and said nothing while people like this continue to try and take over the Democratic Party and undermine any Democrat who doesn’t meet their purity test, even if it means a Republican wins.

    • Treant

      So far, it’s failing. Plus if it succeeded, I’d end up having to join the New Democratic Party, which is where all the reasonable people will end up while the Democrats wither on the vine.

      • Ninja0980

        Yup, I sure as hell don’t need someone like Konst saying LGBT issues, racism voting are “distractions” and that if everyone has $$$, these issues go away.
        They sure as hell don’t and I’ll be damned if we let folks that use the Republican dog whistle be a part of our party.

        • Treant

          Denigrating “Identity Politics” is a way of saying “I’m A Huge Bigot But Don’t Want to Say So.”

        • UrsusArctos

          Unfortunately the “party elders” are the ones who climbed to the heights on playing “triangulation” and being “Blue Dog Democrats”. The legacy of Bill’s years has been a movement to the right and erosion of Democratic (and democratic) principles. It’s now getting harder by the day to find a Democrat that speaks to people where they are. Bernie vs Hillary is another distraction. The party desperately needs to bring the next generation online, as in yesterday. The shortsightedness in not grooming the next generation because they might pose a threat to the “old guard” works in the GOP because they obey – it’s nearly killed the Democratic party because: squirrel! I’m an old fart who is more than ready to support and vote for the next wave of Democrats.

      • Tomcat

        The NEW Democratic party is what is killing the Democratic party, by not giving an inch in their demands.

        • Treant

          Except at that point, they would have hijacked the Dem party at gunpoint and we’d be the New Dems, which are really the Slightly More Centrist, Not Really All That Thrilled With 100% Socialism Dems.

          • Tomcat

            The Democratic party has always welcomed people with all views, somehow that has changed and now only far right views are considered Democratic. It has ALWAYS been those on each side close to the middle that have gotten things done. Once there is no one close to the middle to give and take there will be nothing but deadlocked government. Oh wait, we might already be there.

          • Treant

            [Citation Required] . Just because I don’t believe in giving up on fighting for equality for LBGTs and races and whatnot doesn’t make me far right. Quite the opposite.

            That I don’t believe in every hairbrained scheme that comes out of Bernie’s mouth (like “universally free college regardless”) doesn’t make me far right. It makes me fiscally responsible and smart enough to see that we should probably fund state colleges, but I see no reason to pay the tuition to Yale for somebody (although they can take the same amount to put toward Yale if they want).

            There are dozens of other examples, and you fucking piss me off when you call me far right, to the point that I’m going to mindlessly resist whatever comes out of your mouth after that because you have already proven yourself wrong.

          • Reality.Bites

            Why are you still bothering with this shit disturber?

          • Treant

            He amuses me. He’s also relatively sensible compared to other bros.

    • danolgb

      He stood on a stage and did nothing while his minions booed the DNC chair he was cohosting a “unity” event with.

  • justmeeeee

    Don’t you just hate a sore loser?

    • danolgb

      Yep.. Bernie sure was a sore loser. Still is.

      • Lazycrockett

        as are the bros, don’t forget the bros.

  • MikeBx2

    She’s right and I’m looking forward to reading her book. I’m still with her.

    • Treant

      It’s always fun to watch folks talk about the dissolution of a political party just because it took Comey, Russia, decades of Congressional investigation and stirring of Clinton Hate, and a dozen other factors to take her down. And she still won the popular vote.

      So many’ll jump right back on the bandwagon once the Dems start winning again. Figure this fall with the first wave.

      • Ross

        AMEN!

    • Ross
      • MikeBx2

        Love!

      • Reality.Bites

        Let her out you bastard! Or at least give her a cell where she can stand up.

        • Ross

          You presume she wants out…

      • Stephen Elliot Phillips

        Wow. If thats ur house i love ur colors/stencils/wallpaper

  • Lazycrockett
    • Treant

      (Technicality Gremble) That’s not a gravity wave, it’s merely a similar-looking pattern more akin to the rotation of a spiral galaxy.

      Gravity waves are only detectably generated by closely-orbiting neutron stars and black holes. Comparatively tiny masses of water and air won’t do it.

      • -M-

        No, ripples in spacetime are ‘gravitational waves’.

        Those atmospheric ripples (like the surface ripples from disturbing a pond) are called ‘gravity waves’ because weight rather than pressure or tension is the restoring force.

  • joe ho

    Third- term elections are hard to win. Not a time for prolonged, vicious challenges from the far-left. 2000. 2016.

    After 8 years of Dem rule, far-left gets greedy and forgets how catastrophic it is under GOP rule. They turn to self-defeating sabotage.

    Rinse. Repeat.

    Anyone who didn’t vote for Clinton in the general owns this clusterfuck. Period.

    • Ninja0980

      Not to mention what happened with W being able to put two judges on SCOTUS.
      The fact they were willing to let that happen again..URRGH.

    • PiperPine

      The opposing party usually has a very unified and active base that is highly motivated to go to the polls. Americans aren’t culturally big believers in strategic voting unlike say France so modern elections post 1950 have gotten very cyclical.

  • buckguy

    She would have done worse had he not pushed her in a more populist direction.

    • Treant

      [Citation Required] Also, SIX!

  • DJ John Bear

    When the primaries ended and Clinton had won the nomination, there was no other conceivable choice – it was Clinton or Trump – that’s it. She wasn’t a perfect candidate (but then again, who is?). Bernie caused a lot of damage to her during the primaries (and God damn him for that) and the GOP used it to their advantage, playing to their deplorable base. And the wishy-washy “democrats” that I encountered weren’t sure whether they were even going to vote for Clinton, because “they didn’t like her”. And to think, some of them were even LGBT.

    Even though the Bernie supporters were disappointed in the outcome of the primaries, they should have put their disappointment aside and voted for the only conceivable choice (Clinton) – had it swung the other way, I certainly would have voted for Sanders, because again, there would not have been any choice. Trump and the rest of the GOP made it VERY clear what their intentions are and they are delivering on them. If there is a “democrat” here that was blind to this, shame on them.

    • Treant

      I would have dragged myself to the polls to vote for Bernie, but I wouldn’t’ve been happy.

      Honestly, if it were Bernie against Eisenhower, I wouldn’t’ve voted. If it were Bernie versus Bush, Senior, I would have had to think about it. Their capacity for chaos was approximately equal.

      • DJ John Bear

        Playing Devil’s Advocate here, but what if one campaign threatened to undo any of the stuff we’ve managed to sweat over for decades??

        • Treant

          Bernie didn’t believe in “Identity Politics,” so he was signalling “I’m A Huge Bigot But Won’t Say So.” So technically, one of the above DID say just that.

          The other would merely counterbalance that; I would assume it of both Bush and Eisenhower due to their party, yet neither were particularly noxious in terms of rights.

          • robindaybird

            Basically, he only addressed minority issues when BLM forced him too, and he blew off several LGBT organizations, and said nothing on women’s rights.

          • Treant

            Yeah. Like I said, bigot. It made him uncomfortable and there are several good examples where he’s left constituents out to dry for being minorities. He’s just a left-wing bigot.

    • -M-

      It’s not even Democrat (or Bernie) vs Republican. It’s stop the Nazis first, fight over policy details later.

      At base I have zero party loyalty, I vote for Democrats because:
      1) They’re at least generally making an attempt to govern in ways that protect individual rights, promote the general interests, and respect the framework of legitimate processes and reasonable discussion.

      2) The Republicans aren’t doing any of that. They don’t care about rights or laws or the general welfare* or due process or winning on the merits of their position. In summary they really are a party of grifters, fools, and fascists.
      (*not even for limited cases of the general welfare like the economy or national security.)

      So yeah Hillary is imperfect, like all politicians, and personally I have serious doubts about Bernie’s plans, abilities and character, but given the choice between any of the Rethuglican candidates and either of them or even McMullen or dumbass Gary Johnson I vote for defeating the Nazis.

      And in hindsight, while I have no loyalty to the Clintons either, I still think she was the best of the candidates who ran for the presidency last year.

    • pablo

      We “BernieBots” did vote for Clinton, but we still get blamed because we didn’t clap loud enough and her campaign died.

  • G Thomas

    I would have been happy with either Clinton or Sanders as president. Bottom line: Shit happens. Bernie ran to win. Blaming him for Trump’s win/Clinton’s loss makes no more sense than blaming Clinton for Bernie’s loss/Trum’s win. For her to blame him for HER LOSS feeds into the narrative that she felt she was ENTITLED to be the next president.

    • Lazycrockett

      Bernie didn’t run to win. Not even Bernie expected his ground swell.

  • Treant

    New thread, for those who have lost any will to live.

    • Karl Dubhe

      That’s ominous….

      Should I get a drink before refreshing the page?

      • Treant

        No, I meant those whose will to live has been sapped by this thread. 🙂

        • Karl Dubhe

          Aye, the last thing I really want to do is talk over this issue again. 🙁

    • UrsusArctos

      To me the threads of HRC vs Bernie infighting is somewhat useful. Distasteful, tiring, predictable, but still useful. Commenters reveal a lot in their arguments that I use to balance where their ideas and comments on other topics fall in relation to what I value. Some on either side have revealed their better angels and others have let out their inner “deplorable”.

      • Treant

        And some of us aren’t afraid to do a little bit of both angelic and deplorable. 🙂 I’m eternally logical, but don’t put up with any shit. And sometimes that means not being very nice about it.

        • UrsusArctos

          So I’ve noticed. You’re firmly in my winnah basket, despite (maybe because of?) tourist trips over to the dark side. *grin*

      • Reality.Bites

        And the ones who only show up for the infighting are safely blocked entirely.

  • Lazycrockett

    wevv-com-44a.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/FS-PETE-BUTTIGIEG-010617-770×470.jpg

  • Texndoc

    I remember Rachel Maddow interviewing 3 college age Bernie supporters LIVE on MSNBC the night he spoke at the DNC and encouraged his supporters to vote for her and much to Maddow’s fury each and every one of those girls said “no”. I wonder if they’re sexist.

    • tRump Sucks Putins Dick

      They’re definitely STUPID.

      • Texndoc

        The word I’d use is “immature”. Not one looked over 21 and Rachel would be “DID you LISTEN to Senator Sanders!!??!!” and they’d wriggle their nose and squeek “No” when asked again if they would Vote Clinton.

    • PiperPine

      That would depend entirely on their reasoning. A woman can easily be sexist towards another woman. I have certainly run into women of different ages who don’t believe other women should be in congress or president or say they will always vote for a man over a woman. So maybe?

    • Carl

      Women sexists are the worst. So, yeah, there’s a good chance they’re sexist.

      • Carl

        This comment was meant to be a reply to another comment that somehow became a freestanding post. I didn’t just have a random brain fart…. I swear….

  • Publius

    Many people didn’t support Hillary Clinton because they thought she was too harsh, bitchy, technocratic, unapologetic, and cold. For me, those qualities are exactly why I’ve supported her since I’ve been eligible to vote. Love it or hate it, we live in one of the greatest, mightiest, maybe even best, countries on Earth. For a president, we need someone who’s a fucking boss. A stern man or woman who can get the job done, not necessarily someone who’s cuddly and relate-able. Hillary Clinton was made for that job, and her loss of it makes us all worse off.

    • Lazycrockett

      I remember someone bitching bout her being cautious. Idiots.

    • Ross

      People who know Hillary universally report that she is astonishingly intelligent, a fabulous listener, and has a raucous sense of humor.

      • Publius

        Of course. She’s obviously a well-rounded character. I only listed those negative qualities to illustrate a point 🙂

        • Ross

          Thank you.

          I did not intend my comment as a rebuke of yours. More as just an addendum!

      • UrsusArctos

        My regret is that she came along in a time where she FELT she had to subsume her career to Bill’s. I prefer a lot of her policies and actions to his. Give me a decisive woman over a finger-in-the-air poll watcher any day.
        If she had chosen to move into politics on her own, I think she would probably have been elected president before 2016. The 40 years of collateral damage was too high of a barrier for her (or likely anyone).

      • JCF

        “and has a raucous sense of humor.”

        Who could doubt that?

        https://s3.amazonaws.com/wp-ag/wp-content/uploads/sites/72/2015/03/Hillarydancing.gif

        • Publius

          I love HRC, but that image is haunting.

        • Gerry Fisher

          “I’m as cool as you guys. I *swear* it! Remember when Bill and I did the “Soul Train” dance back in the 90s? C’MON!”

      • Gerry Fisher

        …and she consistently failed to parlay this into an appealing campaign persona. I mean, I was with her the whole way in the general election, and she made *me* cringe several times. (I actually had a client who worked for her in the State Department, and he reports the same thing that you said, here. I do have to say, however, that he exhibited the same kind of arrogance that Hillary often displayed, a kind of dismayed affect as to why it isn’t *obvious* to people that Hillary’s brilliant and should be made president, given her far superior experience and skill set. I mean, I was turned off by the arrogance, and I was experiencing it “in proxy”!)

    • pablo

      I never thought of her as bitchy, just power hungry, corrupt, and incompetent.

      • Publius

        Cool. Well you certainly won and got exactly what you wanted–no President Hillary!

        • pablo

          Don’t worry. I’m sure we will all get the chance to waste another vote on her in 2020.

          • Gerry Fisher

            Naw.

      • Gerry Fisher

        I would argue that her attempt at health-care reform in the early-to-mid-90s was incompetent. (At that time, I was reading snarky comments from members of Congress who were making the valid point that her proposal would be dead on arrival, given that she was off meeting with a lot of experts and had not spent any time rounding up the votes on Capital Hill. She was running the effort like a progressive CEO and not a politician.)

        What’s really telling, IMO, is that this is–once again–a *political* failing, not a management or policy wonk or governing failing.

        I also would be hard pressed to name an out-and-out “failure” post 2000. I know her detractors would point to Benghazi and Libya, but I file both of these things under, “Attempting to make a move in a wildly complex world as pieces were shifting around.” People forget that the whole Libya thing didn’t happen in a vacuum; it happened at a time when the conventional political wisdom on the left was that the Arab Spring movements were a move away from authoritarianism and toward more Democracy, and that the US should support these movements. It became clear only mid-way through the whole thing that the “movement toward Democracy” thing was not happening as predicted. That, in part, led Obama to put the breaks on that type of foreign policy effort when Syria heated up–that, and the political realities in Syria were very, very complex.

    • Gerry Fisher

      I keep thinking of a quote from Barney Frank’s book, “Frank.” He said something along the lines of “If a politician tells you that she or he loves campaigning, the person is either lying or is a sociopath.” (For more info, check out the president who can’t seem to stop campaigning.) He then went on to make the point that governing and campaigning are two different skill sets, and it’s rare that a candidate has both of them.

      As “cool” as your “tough boss” description sounds, Hillary’s campaigning skills are just waaaaaaay too limited. They were a liability in ’08 and again in ’16. This has nothing to do with her governing, management, or policy wonk skills. But it’s a tough sell to ask people to vote for someone who generates an “I don’t like her” response on the campaign trail. Add in that the GOP did a hatchet job on her character for 30 to 40 years, and it makes it even MORE unlikely that a candidate like Hillary would have prevailed.

      Given her limited campaigning skills and the GOP’s character assassination, I think it’s pretty darn amazing that she almost won the thing. (Trump gets an assist for being someone who is obviously–to many people–narcissistic, a grifter, sexist, and racist.)

  • Ernest Endevor

    Bernie. Dollink. You’re too fucking OLD.

  • Taylor Bixler

    Of course she does. As clearly it was Bernie’s decision to waste money on ad buys in Utah and Arizona instead of shoring up Michigan and Wisconsin. The lack of accountability from this candidate, in particular after the mud slinging she and her surrogates engaged in in 2008 is galling but predictable, to say nothing of the 25% of Clinton primary voters in 2008 who voted for McCain because PUMAs never came home.This sort of blame casting and lack of introspection is why Dems will continue to be a regional/coastal party.

  • thom

    Good. She’s right.

  • justmeeeee

    He didn’t get into the race to make sure a Democrat won the White House, he got in to stand up for what’s right.”

    There, it’s fixed now.

    • danolgb

      Well, look what he accomplished. He got Trump into the White House. I guess that’s what he thinks is right.

      • leastyebejudged

        Her not campaigning in swing states and your excusing THAT level of incompetence are what lost that fucking election.

        • danolgb

          Guess who went to those swing states to allegedly campaign for her..

  • Carl

    “I don’t know if that bothered Bernie or not.”

    It doesn’t.

  • unsavedheathen

    We, Democrats, nominated a candidate who 30-35% of the electorate roundly despises and believes to be a felon. And fully 49% dislike her enough to vote for an obvious sociopath instead of her. I don’t believe that she murdered Vince Foster, but they do. I don’t believe that she ran a child-sex ring, but they do. With all her baggage… Vuitton steamer trunks full of baggage… 30 years of negative, national and international baggage… don’t you think that the prospect of Clinton as the Democratic standard-bearer should have given us pause? It did me.

    I did what the VAST MAJORITY of Sanders supporters did on general election day… I voted for Clinton, because the other guy was nuts. Blaming her flameout on Sanders is disingenuous to say the least. She’s done and if the DNC tries to foist her onto the ticket again in 2020, I’m pretty sure it will spell the end.

    • Beagle

      Change less than 100,000 votes in 3 states, and you change the outcome. I won’t say you’re wrong — but you could say the same about any of a dozen other factors.

      • unsavedheathen

        More than a third of the country viscerally hates her. That’s a bad starting point when you are running for national office. What factors played a more basic role in the outcome of the election?

        • Beagle

          Other factors are repeated regularly around here (and I’m not enough of a political scientist to say that THIS was the most basic reason). The voter suppression activities (including legislation) in many states isn’t mentioned very often here, but I think that affected the result. Different amounts of disclosures of investigations of Clinton and campaign, compared to investigations of Dump and campaign — Comey and Wikileaks, for example. Advertising campaigns that focused on how nightmarish Dump would be, as opposed to presenting positive messages.
          Change any one of those — or a number of other factors that aren’t on the top of my head — and you have a second President Clinton. I don’t claim that she would have performed miracles. But under a President Clinton, I don’t think the country would be worse off in January 2021 than it was in January 2017. Maybe or maybe not better — but certainly no worse.
          I won’t argue whether Sanders would have won or lost a general election. I think it’s safe to argue that he would have had to deal with a very active R slime machine.

    • leastyebejudged

      This. AND I went door too door. AND my county had a near 80% turnout.

      Most of the asshats here barely made ANY effort at all.

  • dafs

    Bernie was a total jerk for telling her not to campaign at all in Wisconsin.

    • leastyebejudged

      ROFL

  • dafs

    I wouldn’t’ be so incredibly frustrated with Hillary if she would just acknowledge that MAYBE JUST MAYBE she didn’t run as strong as she could have. She spent so much time saying “look at this piece of shit! Don’t vote for him!” that she could have spent saying “you know what, maybe the change we all wanted under Obama wasn’t what we ended up with, and you’re right for being frustrated with that, and I’m going to address it.”

    I’m sure I’m just got dogpiled here, but whatever, I’ve been called racist and sexist by Democrats ever since the election.

    • -M-

      I think she did say that, though the media mostly ignored it.

      It’s also my understanding that since the election and in the new book she’s admitted some errors in her campaign but her criticisms of others get portrayed as attacks or dodges and then everyone focuses on arguing about that.

      • dafs

        Please share with me when she said that, because I definitely do not recall it.

        • -M-
          • dafs

            This is just a list of her stances on issues. There’s nothing about her loss here.

          • -M-

            Okay, I offered that an example of where she was saying “you know what, maybe the change we all wanted under Obama wasn’t what we ended up with, and you’re right for being frustrated with that, and I’m going to address it.”

            As for admitting faults in how she handled the campaign, I believe though I don’t have a link that she’s mentioned that in interviews and that new book. It’s just that the discussion tends mostly ignore that to focus on arguing about her mentioning other factors that also played a role (Russia, the media, Bernie etc).

  • royinhell

    Fuck you, HRC. I grudgingly voted for you, and no, Sanders didn’t get into this to disrupt the Democrats… you did that all by yourself.

  • dafs

    Everyone wants to drop that whole 12% of Bernie voters voted for Trump, which I still feel is a suspect number, but the same people never want to dwell on the vast majority of the 88% voting for HRC even if she wasn’t their first choice. People like Peter Daou keep drawing lines between the 65 million Hillary voters, and those who supported Bernie. Turns out the world isn’t that simplistic.

  • unsavedheathen

    Hill (and Joe) stirring the turd.

  • Scribble Writer 🌹 ☭
    • Carl

      But if someone smears anyone who is willing to make the first step as a corporate sell out, as the Bernie fanatics did to Clinton and Obama, they don’t really care about health care for anyone. That’s just virtue signalling. Anybody can jeer from the sidelines.

      • leastyebejudged

        Keep kissing that corporate/insurance company ass, you fraud.

        • Carl

          I seem to have a follower.

          • danolgb

            Follower / Stalker.. tomato.. tomahto.

        • Cipher

          Keep supporting the party that will kill the Medicaid expansion- it’s really the way to stick it to the insurance companies! And more ad hominem attacks!

  • stealthfighter

    “Some people feel that Donald Trump will bring the revolution immediately, if he gets in. Then things will really, you know, explode.”

    Susan Sarandon, 28 March, 2016, on why she wouild not support Hillary Clinton if Sanders lost the Democratic primary.

    THIS is what Sanders and his supporters stood and stand for: political nihilism.

    • leastyebejudged

      Because blanket statements based on an extreme are always accurate.

      Just kill yourself you worthless piece of garbage.

    • another_steve

      Any progressive – anyone who’s horrified by the psychopath that Bernie Sanders helped elevate to the Presidency – should boycott all of Susan Sarandon’s work.

      100 percent of it.

      Films, books, whatever.

      • Reality.Bites

        For me that’s only slightly more difficult than boycotting Duck Dynasty.

        I can live without Rocky Horror and that one episode of Friends where she snogged Joey.

      • Treant

        Alas, I watched a recent episode of Rick and Morty where she voiced Dr. Wong, the psychologist. Once I realized that, I’ve turned that episode off when I see it.

    • Carl

      “Revolution” is their of version of saying “Repeal, then replace”

  • robb88

    Quite ironic that Hillary feels that she was treated unfairly by Bernie when there is proof that the DNC treated Bernie unfairly in the primary…

    • jerrydoubleu .

      true

    • danolgb

      Please provide this proof.

  • Anthony_Central_IL

    Hillary represents a virus called identity politics. She expected to run in the Democratic primary unopposed, which virtually never happens in a wide-open election after a two-term president. But she still expected it because her immutable characteristic of gender defined her as “the first female president.” She articulated no discernible platform other than that. This would not be a real worry if it were only Hillary, but the virus has infected most of the Democratic Party, with Michael Moore summing up the current Democratic philosophy by telling voters recently that this would be a better country if whites were a minority. This will result in electoral disaster until the toxic identity politics that has gripped the Democratic Party runs its course, which may not be for many years.

    • jerrydoubleu .

      true true true

    • Reality.Bites

      Nazi blocked

      • leastyebejudged

        Most of his criticisms are valid, you’re a fragile little c*nt snowflake,arn’t you ?

      • Anthony_Central_IL

        The ability to think rationally is like any other skill. You have to practice that skill. Use it or lose it. Unfortunately, many in the Democratic Party have not attempted to formulate a counter-argument for so long that they are no longer capable of doing it. I have seen comments such as the brain-dead, vacuous name-calling from Reality_Bites. If that’s the opponent, you can’t even call it a fight.

        • andrew

          You should take your own advice and practice the skill of thinking rationally. Give it a try.

      • Treant

        I feel like the Count today.

        Twelve! Twelve Nazi trolls blocked! Ah-ah-ah!

    • Beagle

      Are you married? How long had you been together before you were able to marry your loved one?
      The Husband and I were together for 14 years before we could legally marry anywhere in the U.S. It took 26 years before we could legally marry — and have our marriage recognized — everywhere in the U.S. In between, there were little events like the time I couldn’t be there for his major surgery because I would have had to ask my right-wing boss for the time off — and I didn’t want to have to answer his questions for fear of the harm to my career.
      By dismissing such things as “identity politics,” you’re telling me that my family and I should be more than happy to be treated as second-class human beings. Happy to be at risk of being fired just for existing. Happy to pay taxes for rights that I can’t exercise because “we don’t like your kind.”
      So why should I support any set of policies that treat me that way? That put people like me and families like mine into an economic underclass?

      • leastyebejudged

        Except an elucidation of why identity politics is damaging is not a dismissal.

        Maybe work on your reading comprehension and your dogmatism a little, you come off like an idiot.

        • Carl

          You escalated too fast. Troll exposed.

          • leastyebejudged

            Can’t address the issues because you’re a lying c*nt.

      • Anthony_Central_IL

        You offer valid examples of injustice, and you are right to expect those grievances to be redressed. After the nation changes unfair laws, it’s probably counterproductive to field a candidate who vilifies people who don’t share your immutable characteristics. That ignores the fact that individuals differ, even among those who don’t share your immutable characteristics. Not every voter in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin who is desperately worried about the loss of jobs and industry in their states shares the malice that your right-wing boss did. They were justifiably concerned about losing their livelihood, just as you feared for harm to your career. Hillary never addressed the concerns of those whose jobs were being shipped overseas. That is one factor that explains Trump’s win. I don’t think voters in those rust-belt states really had malice toward you and your partner when they voted.

        • -M-

          Actually she did talk about jobs, affordable access to healthcare and education, as well as employee and consumer protections along with civil rights, immigration reform, and all the other issues a president needs to address. .

    • Carl

      Identity politics is code for civil rights.

      • leastyebejudged

        No, it’s not, you’re a liar.

        • Carl

          Are you going to tell me to kill myself, too?

    • joe ho

      lol. Whites WILL be the minority starting sometime between 2045 and 2060. You’re afraid POC will treat you as badly as you’ve treated them.

      US politics has always been identity politics. That’s why straight, white males limited the lives of blacks, women, and gays because of who they were.

      • Anthony_Central_IL

        I’m only mentioning the consequences of vilifying the majority demographic. That is different from seeking redress of unfair laws, such as those that made same-sex marriage illegal. You can see the electoral consequences in the four special elections since November (to fill vacant seats). Four Democratic losses out of four races.

        Edit: OK, here’s an example:

        “White men are bad people and anyone who disagrees is racist and sexist.”

        You really don’t see the irony in that statement, do you? (Not to mention the guarantee of election loss.)

  • leastyebejudged

    How about campaigning in your swing states.

    Blaming Bernie just goes so far, at this point Democrats have lost a great deal of credibility THEY need to work on.

  • picalane

    When one commenter ‘blocks’ another commenter, with whom he/she disagrees, I’m reminded of my grandson shooting me w/ his nerf gun.

    • leastyebejudged

      There are a whole lot of trolls here, that’s a fact, but it’s also true that we have a whole lot of people that lack integrity and intelligence.

      Those people are eager to block everything and live in their little insulated pig fuckin ignorant bubble.

    • Reality.Bites

      Generally the people doing the blocking are ones who’ve been here for years blocking one-issue trolls who have no interesting in participating in this community.

      Try showing up in your grandson’s life by crashing his wedding drunk after never having any involvement in his life prior.

      • Paul

        Joe needs to add a P.S. Bernie sucks to every post. But then the berniebots might find out how much shit they’ve caused for the LGBT community by voting for Trump and/or 3rd party.

        • Reality.Bites

          I question how many of them would care. And how many are even Bernie supporters.

          After all, if I was trying to troll JMG it wouldn’t take me long to twig that an outright Republican will be shut down and shunned within 24 hours but good people here will spend months or years trying to reason with some of the most clearly intractable assholes, as long as they claim to be some kind of leftist, centrist or independent. Ish in this thread is a great example, as is the late and unlamented Bill Purdue, ultragreen, leastyebejudged, tomcat.

          And it’s easy for a Republican to do it, because even legitimate verified as real Bernie supporters were never able to express more than token support for him. It was all about “crooked Hillary” and parroting Trump’s talking points.

          • Treant

            We do have several long-time posters who were for Bernie in the Primary, but they tended to be more reasonable and articulate about why, and accepted and understood that others had different choices. Becca comes to mind.

            Some were more…recalcitrant.

            But all of those came around to Hillary after the Primaries were over (some even slightly before as Bernie started to flame out and become more petulant).

            I have no issues blocking one-hit wonders who materialize here and may stay a day or three, disrupting. I’ll also block longer-term posters who annoy me (and clearly are going out of their way to annoy people). So Ultragreen, Ish, Least, and a few others are gone.

            If you factually disagree and are provably wrong but insist you’re correct and are a jerk about it, you’re gone–just like you would be IRL.

    • Carl

      Cool story.

    • edrex

      fort/da

  • another_steve

    Every word of what’s in the extract that Joe posted: true true true true mother-of-all-trueness TRUE.

  • hdtex
  • Ish

    Good lord will she ever take responsibility? She should join a fucking 12 step group.

    • Carl

      She does. And you don’t vote.

    • Tread

      You should take the same advice.

  • BeaverTales

    Ingratitude. The ugliest form of payback. No one who supported Sanders could ever do enough for her, though many of us tried…not financially nor spending their valuable time helping her in the states she needed it most…places she mostly ignored. when we begged her to come visit.

    Let her whine. We’ve moved on.

    Blaming everyone else for her own mistakes is not healing the rift in the Democratic Party that she helped create. Hillary, please just retire with the remaining dignity you still have left.

  • Andymac3
  • jerrydoubleu .

    what’s the point of hillary whining about her loss and blaming bernie?

    • leastyebejudged

      More division, more damage to the DNC, a much tougher time fixing shit.

      It’s almost as if she never gave a fuck about us or the country.

  • pablo

    She’s incapable of taking responsibility for her own campaign failure. How presidential of her.

    • danolgb

      Be sure to let us know when Bernie takes responsibility for his own campaign failure.

  • margaretpoa

    Truth sometimes hurts but that doesn’t make it a lie. Bernie Bros certainly had an effect. Many of them are still smearing her.

  • Scribble Writer 🌹 ☭

    wanting the wealthiest nation on earth to provide healthcare to its citizens is like wanting a pony. “nothing better is possible”

    disgusting. fuck these elitist politicians. i’m sick of this shit, i may never vote democrat again at this point. might make an exception for a really progressive dem or two, & i’m sure to vote for openly socialist politicians that run but voting for more of the status quo that’s killing the middle class i won’t do

    • leastyebejudged

      If our politicians are elitist pricks it’s because the people electing them are also elitist pricks.

      And the US has a massive insurance industry sucking the life out of the nation that nobody has the balls to take on (including Clinton), so until I start hearing some focus on THAT, ALL the whining about healthcare in the US is just a waste of time.

      • Scribble Writer 🌹 ☭

        pushing for single payer healthcare is *exactly* focusing on that

        • leastyebejudged

          Who the fuck in the DNC is shooting for that ?

          Nobody.

          • danolgb

            Not only do you need to learn your history, you need to learn your current events.

            http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/30/politics/kamala-harris-bernie-sanders-single-payer-medicare/index.html

          • leastyebejudged

            One, great, thanks for proving you’re an idiot.

          • Snarky

            Least: “where’s the proof in what you say?”
            Dano: “Here’s your proof” (provides link)
            Least: “Oh, you’re a doody head.”

            Thank you, Internet, for providing a space for a Socratic exchange of thoughts.

          • edrex

            and isn’t it “LEST” ye be judged? oh well. at least ye be judged.

          • Robincho

            It speaks in jeast…

          • Scribble Writer 🌹 ☭

            the ones who say they support it now, watch them fold and “compromise” it away once it actually becomes a political possibility & the insurance companies start pressuring them

            the dems will always serve their corporate masters in the end, been this way my entire adult life. no longer trust them, no reason to

      • Cipher

        “nobody has the balls to take on (including Clinton),”

        Wait…um, who actually tried to take it on? Some of us remember the 90s… As far as killing the middle class, equating the two major parties is a mistake. Minimum wages matter. Mandates that health insurance actually provide basic coverages matter. A Supreme and federal appellate and district courts that care about consumers’ rights and civil rights of every type of family -matters!

        While some wait for a socialist paradise, the less privileged drink poisoned water and toil in debt servitude.

        • leastyebejudged

          And kissing the insurance industry’s ass consistently for decades also matters.

          • Cipher

            “Because the perfect is always the enemy of the decent and trying to improve on things!” Great, so instead of an ACA we can have a no-CA!

            So wonderful that people care about what matters. Tell it to the folks who stand to be kicked off of Medicaid- you know, the insurance that’s not provided by the insurance industry…

          • danolgb
          • leastyebejudged

            LOL, you’re only proving my points, idiot.

          • danolgb

            What point? That the insurance industry spent millions of dollars attacking Hillary when she was fighting for Universal Healthcare yet she managed to still get SCHIP through even just as First Lady, which is far more than Bernie has ever done in 25 years of Congress?

          • Cipher

            She learned important lessons others would be wise to embrace.

        • leastyebejudged

          Spam.

          • Cipher

            Spam is much better than a diet of lies.

  • TheSeer

    Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are two sides of the same coin. They both parted ways with human decency in the very first days of their campaigns.

    • leastyebejudged

      Disagreement to you is parting ways with human decency.

      Kill yourself you piece of trash.

      • danolgb

        Yes.. your comment is the shining example of Sandernista human decency.

        • leastyebejudged

          I’m not shooting for decency, you can fuck right off with that fake bullshit.

        • Carl

          Exchanges like this prove why anyone who tries to “both sides ” this divide away need to be laughed out of here.

        • joe ho

          lol.

          And he signals that he’s a deluded gay christer, to boot.

          Probably believes gay Jesus would approve of his butt sex.

          • danolgb

            least is also one who would claim to not be a bernista and concern-troll the rest of us. The true colors are coming out.

          • Reality.Bites

            Coming out? I blocked the little shit long before the election!

          • Tread

            I’d like to get him banned. Telling someone else to kill themselves should be an automatic ban from the comments.

    • Outlaw Woman

      Please explain …
      How did Bernie Sanders “part ways with human decency” at any time during his campaign?

      Really, I’m not being facetious, I’d really like to know.

      • zeddicuskotor

        He lied and unsuccessfully sued the DNC. This, after the DNC allowed an independent into their party and gave him free data.

    • Parque_Hundido

      If nothing else, you bear witness to the toxic stupidity of Clinton supporters who refuse to learn the obvious lessons from your failed campaign.

      We warned you about supporting a neocon with more support from Wall Street than the American public. We warned you about demonizing critics. We warned you that your actions would lead to the election of Trump.

      Your post, like your name, is an exercise in bitter irony.

  • Lawerence Collins

    Just another nail in her coffin.
    The sad thing is that the establishment media will endorse her lies! https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e8cdaf1fd754e18707531caf2144d785ef2ad507088c7531cfe54d4918985697.jpg

    • Snarky

      And if you didn’t vote for her in the general, then you voted for all of that PLUS:
      1) A right-wing ideologue on the supreme court
      2) Muslim ban
      3) Military trans ban
      4) Rolling back Federal flood infrastructure standards just days before Harvey hit Texas
      5) Filling the White House with cronies, unqualified family members, investment bankers, white nationalists and at least one Hungarian Nazi sympathizer
      6) Firing the FBI Director because he was in charge of an investigation into…
      7) …Colluding with Russia
      8) Stoking racism, nativism and white grievance
      9) Pardoning Joe Arpaio, who in his own words, ran jails like “concentration camps”
      10) Refusing to condemn Nazis, then, under pressure…
      11) … Equating Nazis with anti-Nazi protesters
      12) Blaming Clinton and Obama for everything
      13) Pulling the U.S. out of the Paris Climate Accords
      14) Picking a fight with North Korea
      15) Picking a fight with Europe
      16) Sending more troops to Afghanistan
      17) Blowing dog whistles to racists with “history and heritage” line
      18) Encouraging intel chiefs to undermine Russia investigation
      19) Accusing London’s first Muslim mayor of not caring about terrorism right after a terrorist attack, then lied about his reason for doing it
      20) Burning a foreign intelligence source by sharing highly classified intel with the Russians, then spilling the beans that the source was Israeil.
      21) Releasing a budget with a $2 TRILLION math error
      22) Accusing Obama of wire tapping his phones (no proof, found to be false)
      23) Variously calling the U.S. court system a threat to national security, the mass media “enemies of the American people,” etc.
      24) Spending taxpayer money on campaign trips and rallies (which is illegal)
      25) Continuing to obsess over crowd sizes, despite photographic evidence to the contrary
      26) Urging Congress to kick 24 million people off of their health care
      27) Pulling the rug out from under DACA kids

      I could go on, sadly, but I hope you get the point. Enough with the false equivalency, “Hillary is a murderer” bullshit. Anyone making an economic fairness argument against Clinton while Trump is in the Oval Office has their head up their ass.

      If you didn’t vote for her, then you helped Trump win the White House. Own it, you did that. Congratulations!

    • Tread

      Stop. Fucking. Lying.

      • Lawerence Collins

        Those were all her positions during the race. I’m not the one lying. You poor dear. Still under delusions that establishment Democrats give a Fcuk about you.

  • Scribble Writer 🌹 ☭

    loses what should have been the easiest election of all time against the most unpopular candidate ever by standing for nothing & running a legendarily bad campaign — “it’s everyone’s fault except for my own”

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/64fe54f12d5eee12bf79f2f87ad608f4c08ec58ca1cc6b561b2ff5c4eebfb71c.jpg

    • joe ho

      lol. You show your ignorance. Third-term elections are very hard to win, unless the economy is booming–which it wasn’t.

      It took Wikileaks, Russia, Putin, a rogue FBI, GOP voter suppression, a main stream media that gave Trump free around the clock coverage and a sustained, vicious attack from the far-left to bring her down. Still won more votes than any other candidate except Obama 2008.

      Delete yourself.

      • danolgb

        I love how they’ll claim “Hillary blames everyone but herself” and then in the same breath say that Bernie only lost due to the alleged rigging of the DNC.

        • Carl

          “Hillary blames everyone but herself” seems to be the popular projection of the day.

          • Tread

            Projection? It’s a flat out lie.

        • Ninja0980

          Yup, nothing about how Bernie basically told POC (large part of the Democratic base) to pound rocks, couldn’t clearly articulate his policy plans in various interviews (Daily News one was a doozy) and basically stated anyone who didn’t worship his far left views was a Republican.

    • danolgb

      You never take into account that about 15 GOP candidates also lost to Trump first and Bernie lost to her. And the easily duped “Bernie or Bust” crowd was able to put Trump over the top by a razor thin margin in the swing states.

      • Scribble Writer 🌹 ☭

        ah yes, you mean those swing states like wisconsin, that clinton didn’t even visit because the idiot sycophants she surrounds herself with told her it was in the bag. right

        • danolgb

          The campaign did send a proxy to those states.. his name was Bernie Sanders. It does look like that was a mistake.

    • Tread

      Congratulations! You’re doing the right-wing’s work for them by publishing their bullshit right-wing cartoons! Gary Varvel is a RWNJ, but what do you care? As long as its bashing your most-hated candidate because she ruined St Bernie’s chance, right?

  • I voted for Sanders during the primary, but I find it oddly comforting that Clinton thought the Bernie Bros were irritating as I did (and do).

    The idea that candidate Clinton was the one and only cause and that she has accepted none of the blame for the election results is more than a little wrongheaded. Clinton herself is clearly partially responsible, but I won’t blame her for pointing fingers when I’ve got fingers pointing in all the same directions.

    • danolgb

      How do you know that she hasn’t accepted any of the blame? Have you read the whole book? Only these bits have been published in the media.

      • zeddicuskotor

        She’s publicly admitted she was wrong with the election.

        • danolgb

          Tell that to Derek and the other Bernistas.

        • Parque_Hundido

          Which explains the book that blames literally everyone but her for her loss. Thanks for clearing that up.

    • zeddicuskotor

      I’ve found Bernie bros to be as toxic towards facts as Trump cultists. For example, they flat out refused a congressional testimony that Russia targeted Bernie bros with propoganda. Just dismissed it outright.

      • Parque_Hundido

        Just like you Shillaries have a hard time accepting that demonizing those who support a better candidate isn’t a great tactic. Oh, and the DNC paid for the Clinton trolls with party funds, so there’s that.

        Your candidate was awful. Your campaign was atrocious. Accept reality and grow up.

        • danolgb

          Your candidate lost by nearly 4 million votes. He was not the better candidate by definition.

          • Parque_Hundido

            That would certainly explain why the loser you backed published a book blaming him and literally everyone but herself for her loss.

            And how about those caucuses where Shillaries and DNC staffers threw chairs and threatened to call the cops rather than allowing a vote?

            Learn your lesson. Grow up. Move on or get out of the way.

          • danolgb

            Um.. are you now just making crap up? What caucuses are you talking about? Or are you confused with the Nevada convention where Bernie’s delegates were lied to by his campaign that it was possible to flip the state’s votes through their BS and when they failed they practically started a riot?

          • Parque_Hundido

            I was there. The Shillaries denied county delegates their credentials to prevent a vote. The Shillaries thre things, threatened to call the cops and tried to have security expel delegates whose credentials the Shillaries had withheld.

            You can’t rewrite history so long as we eye witnesses are still alive.

            Perhaps you’ve had a stroke and have suffered cognitive loss?

          • danolgb

            The county delegates didn’t follow the rules and stay registered with the party and most of them didn’t show up anyway. It was not Hillary’s people who made that determination but the Credentials Committee made up of equal numbers of Bernie and Hillary reps. Bernie’s campaign lied to you all. The conventions are only to certify the votes at the caucuses, which Hillary won. They’re not to magically say he won the state where more people voted for Hillary. It was Bernie’s campaign that was literally thinking it was okay to overturn the votes of the people at the caucuses. It was always only Bernie and his campaign who wanted to change the rules mid-primary. The “rigging” that the DNC was doing was really just enforcing the rules that had been in place for decades. When Bernie couldn’t win, he wanted the rules changed. That’s the history. Just because you were too stupid to understand what was going on doesn’t mean you were cheated.
            http://www.politifact.com/nevada/statements/2016/may/18/jeff-weaver/allegations-fraud-and-misconduct-nevada-democratic/

          • Parque_Hundido

            Were you there? I was. The party bosses in Nevada refused to allow county delegates to present their credentials. The credentials committee met at an unannounced time, excluded Sanders supporters and announced their decision as a done deal. It was a simple case of party bosses exerting control. It was shameful and embarrassing. And that Nancy Pelosi was there to back up the party bosses made it all the more embarrassing.

            Bernie’s campaign did not lie to me or to anyone I know. I was not a Sanders supporter. This is especially hard for you to understand because one of the core tenets of Shillary belief is that all dissent, doubt and critique must come from Sanders supporters and that all Sanders supporters are misogynist children. Clinton had Clark and Washoe counties sewn up, in the bag, largely because the unions made sure of it. Sanders supporters tended to be from more rural, isolated parts of the state (though not exclusively, not by any means). There was a nasty, divisive dynamic here: city versus country, party boss versus newcomer and an entrenched set of party leaders feeling threatened by the unwashed neophytes from parts of the state they had never heard of.

            I’ve been in Democratic politics for 30 years. I’ve never seen such shameful behavior outside of Chicago’s 4th District – I’m thinking of how Rostenkowski stole stamps, pilfered furniture and employed his family as “tour guides” at the Merc. Nevada was a full-on circus. Wyoming was calmer, but Clinton walked away with support vastly out of proportion with the way the caucus voted. Tell me why that makes sense or why that wouldn’t anger new Democrats. You can’t.

            You’re very new, very stupid or potentially both. You can fix the stupid part by trying to learn.

            If nothing else, learn this: Clinton is not your cause. Clinton should never have been anyone’s cause. Mistaking a candidate for politics is such an elementary mistake, one you seem hell bent on repeating.

            My goal is a a better electoral system and more equal distribution of opportunity, including resources. Clinton wasn’t a good choice for these goals and I made begrudgingly went along when she won the nomination. I’m dumbfounded by those who don’t realize how bad she was as a candidate. She was a bad means to an end, which is why we now have Trump.

          • danolgb

            You guys think you’re good at gaslighting, but the only people you gaslit were yourselves. It’s all there in writing. The Credential Committee was made up by equal parts Bernie and Hillary reps. There were no secret rule changes. You guys were just lied to.
            And really, you were trying to override the outcome of how people voted in the Caucuses. How in the hell is that okay with you? The only cheaters were you Bernie assholes when you packed the county convention with non-delegates. Even if you flipped Nevada, it didn’t make a damn difference. Bernie was never within 200 pledged delegates of Hillary. You guys were just sore losers. Still are.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Sorry, but repeating lies makes you sound crazy, not competent.

            Get help, but get out of our way first.

        • zeddicuskotor

          Calling out people that are too stupid to resist Russian propoganda is bad? Why is that?

          Would you rather have more Russian attacks on our elections?

          • Parque_Hundido

            More delusional Shillary nonsense.

            Did the Russians make you back an awful candidate? Run an atrocious campaign? Is that really your excuse?

        • Snarky

          It’s hilarious that in the same sentence you complain about Sanders supporters being “demonized,” you call Clinton supporters “Shillaries.” Ironic much?

          If Sanders was “a better candidate” why did Clinton beat his ass so thoroughly in the primaries?

          Trying to delegitimize Clinton’s win smacks of a nasty elitism.

          • Parque_Hundido

            We will never know what might have come from a fair election in the primaries, will we?

            The Clinton campaign had a small army of paid and unpaid trolls whose sole job was to recast all opposition as sexism. Didn’t work. Calling me “elitist” for following the news won’t work either.

            Grow up. Your candidate failed because she was a middling career politician who ran a lousy campaign fueled by entitlement and condescension.

            Learn your lesson and move on.

          • Snarky

            Ahhh there it is, the “the primaries were unfaiiiirrrrr” complaint. I figured we’d arrive here soon enough. I WISH I was being paid to rebut your childish arguments, I’d send the money to Houston.

            Did I say you were elitist for reading the news? No, you made that shit up yourself, then argued against it. That’s a straw man argument. Here are the actual words I used: “Trying to delegitimize Clinton’s win smacks of a nasty elitism.”

            I called you elitist because you continue to say Sanders was the better candidate, even though he lost, so obviously you’re saying Clinton supporters didn’t know who the better candidate was. That’s you being elitist.

            Sanders-Trump voters made all the difference that mattered in WI, MI, PA. Go on your White House tour and shake little hands with your MAGA-In-Chief now.

          • Parque_Hundido

            I’m sorry, you appear to have reading comprehension issues compounded by a compulsion to make shit up.

            I never said anything about Sanders. You did. I did not support Sanders.

            Because you Shillaries are obsessed with him, all criticism of your shitty candidate and shitty campaign must come from Sanders supporters. I give him credit. He held a mirror up to your candidate and she didn’t like it. The voters didn’t like that. You don’t like it, which is why you are literally obsessed with making shit up so that you can avoid facing the obvious truth: you supported a shitty candidate who jacked the DNC, alienated potential crossover voters, angered Democrats and elected Trump. Congrats.

            I don’t have to try to delegitimize Clinton’s nomination or go to any trouble to explain her inevitable loss in the general. Her DNC lackees went from national disgrace to employment in her campaign, they do the de-legitimizing for me. Oh, and I was present in Nevada when the Shillaries started throwing things and threatening to call the cops. There’s that.

            You elected Trump. You’re the kind of shrill, tone-deaf crazy whose idea of a “cause” in politics is electing a candidate rather than fixing a problem. We don’t need you. Get out of my party, get the fuck out of my country.

            If you can’t grow up, just go away. Or get a job from Trump. After all, your shrill, toxic trolling certainly helped get him elected.

          • Snarky

            The reason I’m talking about Sanders is because Sanders/Clinton is the topic of this thread. Do keep up.

            Speaking of being obsessed, you’re the one who is apparently pants-wettingly angry, just look at the tone of your posts here. Telling someone “get out of my party, get out of my country.” Calling people “Shillaries” when they disagree with you, despite the fact you don’t know who they supported.

            I suggest you get some help with your anger issues. You don’t sound at all well.

            Further discussion with someone like you who is just engaging in childish ad hominem attacks is a waste of my time. Reply if you wish, but you’re being blocked so I’ll never see it. Bye, Felicia.

          • Parque_Hundido

            No. You’re talking about Sanders – and you specifically claimed that I was talking about Sanders – because you are obsessed with finding a scapegoat for your shitty candidate and your shitty campaign.

            Again, let me point out:

            – You are a classic Shillary because of what you say and how you say it. You are screeching nonsense at high volume and in endless repetition. Many of the things you are claiming are mathematically impossible, others are simply counter factual. You make shit up and attribute it to others. Own it.

            – You are discrediting my party. I’ve been a Democrat involved in party organization for 30 years. Idiots like you come along and make us all look bad. Clinton lost because she was a shitty candidate who ran a shitty campaign. i’m sure Russia is delighted, but their goal was not to elect Trump but to discredit the US electoral system – which they did by exposing what the DNC actually does. Think about that. Now think harder. Again. Think until you understand the implications of what happened.

            – Pointing out your allergy to facts, your inability to understand math and your constant shrieking of untruths is not “ad hominem”. That’s not what that term means. I’m attacking what you say and the way you say it. I make no claim to know who you are. I guess we can add Latin to the growing list of things you don’t understand.

            Learn your lesson and move on. Or at the very least get the hell out of the way. And get the hell out of my party. Go find some country in need of loudmouthed morons.

          • embarcadero

            You realize that when you block someone, that person’s post is only invisible to you, right?

            Parque had some pretty solid arguments about why you don’t understand polls and why your argument can’t be true.

            Throw a tantrum if you must, but it doesn’t do your side any favors. The rest of us can still see how she debunked your claims, but you never will.

            What does that say about you?

          • Snarky

            Yes, I know how blocking works, thanks. I see you know how being patronizing works.

            I had already tried discussing things with that poster, but found their tone, constant childish name-calling (not just me, but of others as well) and strawman arguments pointless to continue with.

            I do understand polling. And I understand the difference between a single nationwide poll that measures feelings vs a national election, which is made from separate statewide counts. I have provided facts to back up my statements, in the form of an NPR piece on Sanders-Trump voters and their numbers in swing states.

            If you think I was having a tantrum, you’re sadly mistaken.

            It says I have better things to do than to continue wasting my time with being yelled at by someone who doesn’t want to have a discussion. That’s what it says about me.

    • Snarky

      She has accepted blame. In one of her earlier post-election public appearances, she said “Of course I take absolute personal responsibility. I was the candidate. I was the person on the ballot.”

      • Thank you, Sarky. I was too preoccupied to look up the video clip on You Tube, but it’s there, I swear.

    • Reality.Bites

      I also find it fascinating that this whole discussion is based on two pages from a book that has at least a couple of hundred of them.

      • This discussion isn’t about those two pages, it’s about the 30+ years of history that led up to them.

  • beergoggles

    This is why I’m no longer a registered Democrat. It’s always someone else’s fault. Oh I did badly in the debates because Trump was stalking me. On I did badly in the general because Bernie. Oh it’s the Bernie Bros and I have yet to actually meet a Bernie voter who didn’t vote for her in the general election. Take some responsibility for being the national version of Martha Coakley and blowing a lead to give us Trump.
    But weirdly she won’t blame Obama for nominating a Republican to the FBI so they could screw over the Democrats in the middle of a presidential election.

    • Snarky

      One in 10 Bernie voters went for Trump in the general. You may not have met them, but there’s a significant number of them out there.

      • downtownla

        Yes, and 25% of Hillary’s primary voters in 2008 voted for the Republican instead of Obama in the general. What is your point?

        • Snarky

          My point is twofold:
          1) the OP said “I have yet to actually meet a Bernie voter who didn’t vote for her in the general election” and I replied that in fact, 10% of them did. That person may not have met them but the facts are clear, a statistically significant number of Sanders voters went for Trump in the general.
          2) 2008? WTF are you even discussing the 2008 election for? It has completely nothing to do with this.

          • Parque_Hundido

            The point here is obvious: far. Fewer of Sanders’ supporters crossed party lines in the general election than did Clinton’s when she lost to Obama.

            For you Shillaries, there will never be a way to prove the obvious: you crowned the most despised candidate in party history as nominee, then you demonized anyone who didn’t support her.

            We warned you. You chose not to listen. Stop whining.

          • zeddicuskotor

            And? The fact remains, that 10% of Bernie supporters were traitors to the cause.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Versus 25% of Clinton supporters, who voted for McCain rather than Obama. I know, math is hard.

            Therein lies your issue:your “cause” was electing Clinton, not improving the lives of Americans. Had you understood that, you could not have supported Clinton to begin with.

          • zeddicuskotor

            And? Your excusing traitors that gave Trump the win.

          • Parque_Hundido

            You are vilifying as traitors Republican voters that might have gone Democratic had we nominated a good candidate.

            When will you people learn that toxic rhetoric and the inability to learn are not helping?

          • zeddicuskotor

            And? They were still bernie suppprters and he failed to keep them in line. Thats on him. Not Clinton.

            For someone that keeps trying to blame Clinton for everything, you sure are trying and failing to pass the buck.

          • Parque_Hundido

            I’m sorry, when did you relocate US elections to Maoist China?

            The whole thing about Democracy is that everyone gets to vote their conscience. That’s why your savior lost.

            Grow up. Move on or get out of the way.

          • zeddicuskotor

            So you are against personal responsibility.

            Thanks for discrediting yourself.

          • Parque_Hundido

            You’re genuinely unconcerned about sounding insane. First you accuse Sanders of failing to control others, now you claim I’m opposed to personal responsibility. You should have tried harder in school.

          • zeddicuskotor

            Why is it Clintons fault for Bernie being unable to hold his supporters in line? Explain that “logic.

          • Parque_Hundido

            You’re in a downward spiral of confusion. I didn’t make any comment about Clinton or Sanders controlling anyone.

            Clinton failed to win enough crossover voters to win the election.

            That is why Trump is in office.

          • zeddicuskotor

            You’re trying to blame that 10% on the wrong person. Try to keep up.

            Trump is in office because Bernie bros were too stupid to do the right thing and were too stupid to see through Russian propoganda.

          • Parque_Hundido

            I know, math is hard. If you could understand numbers, you’d realize how ridiculous you sound.

          • zeddicuskotor

            Thanks for proving my point.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Your only point is that you can’t understand math or English.

          • zeddicuskotor

            When people lose an argument they’ll try and fail to change the topic, like what you just did. Neither of us are disagreeing with the 10% statistic, yet you think I am. That’s a distraction to hide your failures.

          • Parque_Hundido

            You seem to have trouble tracking the argument. You don’t understand the 10% statistic because you don’t seem to understand the dynamics of the election.

            You’re not following here, so I can see why you’re confused. What I don’t see is any reason why you would have any confidence in your claims. There is no reason to believe that the 10% of those who supported Sanders early on but voted for Trump influenced the election. The reason is simple: there was much more volatility in other segments of the electorate AND most of that 10% was either Republican or self-described conservatives.

            Your argument doesn’t hold water, you can’t track ideas across posts, and you’re full of hot air. It’s an odd combination.

          • zeddicuskotor

            Thanks for proving my point.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Again, your only point is that you’re confused.

          • Tread

            No one crowned anyone. She won the primary. Stop whining.

            We warned you about Trump. You chose not to listen and sowed discord among the Democratic party. Stop whining.

          • Parque_Hundido

            We warned you: support the corporate favorite who was also the most despised candidate in party history and you’ll elect Trump.

            We warned you: abusing DNC resources and demonizing critics would alienate voters and elect Trump.

            You ignored us. You elected Trump.

            Grow up. Learn your lesson. Move on or get out of the way.

          • Tread

            You have amazing projection abilities! Feeling guilty that you helped elect this monster? There was an adult choice to be made come Election Day and you and your cronies decided to throw a tantrum. Now we’re all dealing with the consequences.

            You’re only as progressive as it benefits you, just like St. Bernie. Your “we” is as empty as Bernie’s campaign promises and legislation.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Yawn. I get it. You can’t forgive yourself for electing Trump so you stick to this bizarre soliloquy about Sanders.

            Seek help, but get the hell out of the way.

          • Snarky

            I haven’t looked at where those votes were cast (numbers like 10% of Sanders voters and 25% of Clinton voters are national, while the general election is 50 separate state elections, so raw percentages show nationwide feelings, not state electoral effects), so until we know how many votes went to who, it’s an apples and oranges comparison.

            In other words, a 10% movement in a few swing states would mean more than a 25% movement in safe states.

            And there’s another point you’re missing: Obama won in a landslide. Trump won by much slimmer margins in far fewer states. Small percentages make bigger differences in such a case.

            If you voted for anyone but Clinton in the general, you need to own who’s in the White House now, and all they are doing. That’s on you. Time to stop playing victim, whining and crying about Clinton supporters just because there were more of them in the primaries than those who supported Sanders.

          • danolgb

            In WI, PA, and MI, the number of Sanders voters who ended up voting for Trump were at least double Trump’s margin in those states.
            http://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds

          • Snarky

            Thanks for that link. Here’s the part that should keep Sanders awake at night if he has the moral courage I’d like to think he has:
            “… if the Sanders-Trump voters in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania had voted for Clinton, or even stayed home on Election Day, those states would have swung to Clinton, and she would have won 46 more electoral votes, putting her at 278 — enough to win, in other words.”

          • Parque_Hundido

            Sorry, denying polls you do not like isn’t much different than denying climate change. You Shillaries either don’t understand math or hold the rest of us in utter contempt, presuming we can’t read. Same method, same margins, two elections. The polls are reliable, stable and academic.

            If you supported the Clinton campaign,my ou served on the Trump election committee. Own it. Pushing the most despised candidate in party history as nominee and then demonizing critics is a one way ticket to exactly what you achieved: the election of Trump.

            Grow up. Learn. Your lesson. Move on or get out of the way.

          • Snarky

            Wow, you don’t appear to actually read comments, do you? You seem to just make sure you type the word “Shillaries” when you disagree with someone, then make shit up.

            I’m not denying polls, I’m saying what you are quoting is nonsense. Keep harping on the 2008 numbers all you want, but know that it has nothing to do with this discussion. Zero. Look at the headline of this post – it’s about Clinton/Sanders.

            I’ll spell it out for you: I am not denying polls, I said there’s a very big difference between a NATIONAL POLL and 50 SEPARATE STATE VOTE TALLIES. And that the numbers you are talking about are essentially meaningless.

            However, the state votes do show that the percentage of Sanders-Trump voters in swing states did indeed matter. In fact, they made the difference.

            From NPR: “… if the Sanders-Trump voters in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania had voted for Clinton, or even stayed home on Election Day, those states would have swung to Clinton, and she would have won 46 more electoral votes, putting her at 278 — enough to win, in other words.”

            Source: http://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds

            Now. I assume you didn’t read that. Or that you’re going to make up some shit that I didn’t say and argue against me for that. But know this: that’s proof, right there, that all other things being equal, if it weren’t for Sanders-Trump voters, Clinton would have won.

            If you need me to use smaller words, just let me know. In the meantime, that guy in the Oval Office? Just wake up and own him. He’s yours.

          • Parque_Hundido

            First, you are a classic Shillary. You are a shill for Hillary. You are immune to facts. You make shit up, and you screech at high volume and in endless repetition. You are the very dictionary definition of a shill.

            Math is clearly hard for you, doubly so because any real understanding of the numbers exposes you as a fraud. I suspect you’re one of those liberal arts majors who thought of math as too conservative for her intellectual tastes. I say that as a liberal arts major who went on to become a social scientist with a sharp sense of disdain for shills who screech things that cannot possibly be true.

            The polls that show that Clinton’s supporters were far more likely to have voted for McCain in 2012 than Sanders supporters were to have voted for Trump. There was far less volatility among Democratic leaning voters in 2016 than in 2012.

            Further, the polls show that Sanders attracted more voters who described themselves as “conservatives” or as “Republicans”, so that when some of them voted for Trump in the general, they weren’t “crossing party lines”, they were reverting to their original positions. These polls were conducted by a consortium of academic polling agencies and rely on a post election interview process that has been repeatedly validated (that involves checking numbers and doing fancy calculations you would understand if you’d taken math). I know, you don’t do numbers. But some of us do, and to us, the shit you say just makes you sound like a 10 year old.

            Further, your claim that the Sanders supporters elected Trump is ridiculous for three main reasons:

            1 . Independents and undecided voters made up a numerically more significant block. The inherent volatility among such a large set of voters makes it impossible to attribute causality to a single group, especially because of the second reason:

            2. The Sanders supporters who voted Trump did so in numbers dwarfed by other groups who also changed their votes in the general. Notably, better educated Republicans (e.g, Kasich supporters, McCain supporters) voted Clinton, especially in urban districts where their votes didn’t matter much because Clinton carried those districts anyway.

            3. You don’t understand sampling or polling. There’s no getting around this. You claim that the same polls conducted in the same way over the course of 50 years is comparing “apples to oranges”. You don’t understand that, unlike primaries, general elections are conducted in the same way in all 50 states. There’s just no fixing this kind of deliberate, studied stupidity. It’s your fault and it’s shameful.

            Those of us who know math and can read are pointing and laughing at you. Those of us who can read and do math and are long-time Democrats would very much like for you to get the hell out of our party. You make us all look like idiots.

            You are a witness for the prosecution. That you don’t understand this is why we feel such contempt and disdain for you Shillaries.

          • downtownla

            I’m bringing it up to show that candidates don’t own anybody’s votes. They have to go out and make the case to these voters who rejected them in the primary. In 2008, Hillary supporters were under no obligation to support Obama. Thankfully, Obama was able to bring in enough new young voters and minority voters to make up for the loss of white voters who supported Hillary but couldn’t support a black man. In 2016, Hillary just wasn’t able to bring in enough new voters to overcome the sexism that she faced. But that was her job. Hillary, and her choice for VP, milquetoast Tim Kaine, just weren’t inspiring enough.

          • Matt G, Rochester

            While your statement is technically correct, it belies the fact that not all Sanders support came from the left. Many states allow open primaries, and many of the disaffected middle class white supporters he had came from the Republican side. Show me one Democrat who voted for Sanders in the primary and didn’t vote Clinton in November.

        • joe ho

          please provide link for your statistic.

          • downtownla

            There were a slew of polls, I think three, that confirmed this. I can’t find a specific article on it, but it’s buried in this one… https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/24/16194086/bernie-trump-voters-study

          • joe ho

            2008 v. 2016 is apples to oranges. The difference is that 2016, like 2000 was a third-term election for Democrats, which does not favor the incumbent party.

            2008 was a third-term election for Republicans, with Democrats having the advantage. Defections and strong challenges there are not critical.

            The take-away is that strong challenges from the left in third-term elections for Democrats doom them.

          • downtownla

            I agree, 3rd terms are difficult for a party in power to retain. However, I disagree with you on the lesson. America wanted change again. Despite her many years of being a DC insider, I do think that Hillary could have ran on this message if she had nominated another female or a Latino as her VP, but instead, she campaigned on stability and political experience and being Obama’s 3rd term. Her choice of VP was cautious and signaled that she was not there to rock the boat. She picked the wrong message for this election. Conversely, that is also why I think Bernie could have held the seats for Democrats because he was not perceived by independents as being a traditional Democrat. Thus, he also represented change.

          • joe ho

            But Bernie candidates have not fared well. Plus the fact that the GOP/Putin hate machine would have crushed him like a bug.

          • downtownla

            True, left-leaning candidates haven’t done better than centrist ones, but that’s because, even if they got the nomination, the party never got behind them. In the end, the Democratic Party has to decide if they are a top-down party focused solely on winning the Presidency (which is what it has been for the past 8 years) or a party that wants to compete in all races, even down ballot. It’s why we don’t have a strong bench right now and no apparent leaders to step up. We neglected the farm team for 8 years and now it’s coming home to roost.

          • danolgb

            They can’t. That number was based on a poll from June 2008, not election results.

      • beergoggles

        So a smaller percentage than white women and men, hispanics, lgbt voters and 2% more than blacks. So way to demonize Bernie primary voters and blame them for all her failures because it’s still not her fault for a lousy campaign. Keep working that victim complex, it’s going to attract so many voters for the midterms.

        • Snarky

          Facts are hard. From NPR (source below):

          “…if the Sanders-Trump voters in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania had voted for Clinton, or even stayed home on Election Day, those states would have swung to Clinton, and she would have won 46 more electoral votes, putting her at 278 — enough to win, in other words.”

          There it is. Reread it if you must.

          There’s plenty of blame to go around. Clinton has already taken personal responsibility for her loss. White men and women, in huge numbers, went for Trump. It seems the only people who can’t manage to own up to their role in Trump’s victory are Sanders supporters. If the comments here are any guide, that is.

          http://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds

          • beergoggles

            So you just restated the same numbers, just blaming Bernie voters instead of any other demographic. I’m still waiting for the wypipo to own up to it. Or Hispanics, or gays4trump. but no, it’s somehow Bernie supporters only. It’s like that time prop 8 passed and everyone was pissed at Black people.
            At least when Al Gore lost, he did something constructive.

          • Snarky

            I’m not just restating the same numbers. Did you even read my post? Sanders-Trump voters in MI, WI and PA made a difference that, all other things being equal (which is a key statement I’m sure you will ignore), gave the election to Trump. Sorry you don’t like the numbers, and you’d rather deflect than open your eyes, but there they are. Just own it.

            And if you reread the post that you’re replying to, I mention “plenty of blame to go around” esp “white men and women.” But please, continue with your strawman “just blaming Bernie voters instead of any other demographic” argument. It’s a lot easier to argue against something I didn’t say, apparently.

          • Matt G, Rochester

            Not all Sanders support came from Democrats. In some states, Republicans are allowed to vote in Dem primaries, and vice versa. And some Republicans voted for “What’s an Aleppo?” Gary Johnson. I know of Republicans who wanted Sanders, and viscerally hated Clinton. Yes, if all Sanders supporters voted for her, she could have won, just as if all Blacks voted for her, or all Hispanics, or, heaven forbid, all Gays…

            She was a lousy candidate right from the start. Her disapprovals were ALWAYS higher than her approvals, and both she and the party could have predicted her loss. She is as much to blame as anyone else that Trump is in the White House. And she still can’t admit it. Nor can the Clintonistas, it seems. So instead of looking for new and progressive future candidates, let’s just keep rehashing, and rerunning the same election, over and over and over and over and…

  • downtownla

    Of course it was Bernie’s fault. It was everyone else’s fault, but hers. Hillary was the perfect candidate who ran a flawless campaign. If only the damn voters didn’t get in the way.

  • Mike

    I supported Hillary because she is not Trump. She is an infinitely better choice for president than the best Republican. But if she’s going to blame Bernie, let’s tell the whole truth: Hillary lost because most people don’t like her or trust her. She had a whole political lifetime to build the kind of good will Bernie had, but she is an operator and a hustler and is capable of betraying her supporters in a pinch, which she has done many times. That’s mostly why she lost. Blaming the so-called Bernie Bros, saying the boys are mean to the girls and that’s why she lost, is beneath her.

    • zeddicuskotor

      Which is ignoring the Russian attacks.

      • Mike

        No one thing wins or loses an election. Democrats stayed home. That’s a big one. The whole Democratic party, Hillary included but no more than anyone else, does an abysmal job at making people realize that Democratic ideals are their ideals, and that Republican policy is misery. Bernie did it successfully, and he is the only one I can think of in years who has tried to open people’s eyes instead of trying to finesse their stupidity and meet them somewhere where fear meets ignorance. We need more like Bernie, or we’re doomed.

        • zeddicuskotor

          Bernie was in it for himself. As evident by his refusal to quit back in February and help the DNC win against Trump. Instead he dragged it out until the bitter end and did almost nothing to champion for Clinton after the convention.

          • Mike

            Bernie is a hero beyond anything we have known in politics in decades. His staying in the race forced Hillary to move left where she belonged in the first place. Maybe the next Democratic nominee will run as a Democrat instead of Republican-lite without having to be shamed into it.

          • danolgb

            A hero? A lazy, do-nothing egomaniac is a hero to you? What has he actually done other than wave a finger and yammer?

          • MBear

            I think he finally got some kids off his lawn

          • danolgb

            Are we sure it was his lawn? He’s been known to take things from his neighbors.

          • zeddicuskotor

            So your deluded.

    • Tread

      She mostly lost because Americans are still misogynistic know-nothings, easily swayed by bright, shiny objects.

  • kladinvt

    So, what exactly is the point of widening or maintaining the DIVIDE that already exists on the Left? Who benefits?

    • zeddicuskotor

      Russia targeted Bernie bros with propoganda, and unless these people learn that they were manipulated by a hostile foreign country, then Russia will just keep doing it with the same excellent results for them.

      We don’t need clueless lowlife scum that are too unaware to notice that they’re being manipulated in the DNC. That’s why the GOP exists.

      • danolgb

        It’s amazing to me that the Berners are more vociferous in denying the Russian meddling than Trump himself is. But yes, they were the targets of the misinformation campaign and now they’re too stubborn/stupid to admit it. And Bernie could come right out and tell them that they were used, but he won’t. His ego is too engorged still for that to happen.

        • zeddicuskotor

          I showed a few that congressional testimony that spelled this all out, and they just ignored it. They are fact adverse.

          • danolgb

            They like their own facts. They’ll tell you that the judge ruled that the DNC did rig the election when he threw out the lawsuit or that the DNC lawyer admitted rigging, even tho they did no such thing. They’re still being manipulated. Mostly it’s coming from a Berniebro writer on Jared Kushner’s Obeserver.com. Yet they can’t figure out the connection.

          • Reality.Bites

            No one supported Bernie because of their deep understanding of how government and politics work. Goodness knows he’s never shown any.

        • Tread

          It’s because he probably paid for it (or is in Russia’s pocket somehow).

      • Parque_Hundido

        Oh my, do you actually believe this ridiculous post? Surely you’re joking.

        The DNC was on the take. It wasn’t the Russians who forced Wasserman Shulz to change the rule that formerly banned paid lobbyists from the DNC or who suggested attacking him for his religion.

        I’m curious: did the Russians beam microwaves into the homes of Sanders supporters? Did they employ an army of mind control goats?

        Your insane post shows just how desperate, infantile and deluded you hard core Shillaries really are.

        If you refuse to learn your lesson and move on, at least get the hell out of the way and turn down the volume on the crazy.

        • zeddicuskotor

          Watch the congressional testimony.

          • Parque_Hundido

            So, microwaves? Seriously, that’s what you’re putting out there?

          • zeddicuskotor

            We have congressional testimony of Russia targeting Bernie bros with propoganda. Its a official public record.

            Seriously, try to pay attention. You’re embarassing yourself.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Please, point me to the credible link of Russians “targeting Bernie bros” with propaganda and describing that activity before Congress.

            Your idiocy does not improve your credibility.

          • zeddicuskotor

            It’s official public record. It was recorded by CSPAN live in Congress. How do you not know this?

            Also, how bad are you at google for not finding this easily? I could.

            https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4664800/clinton-watts-russia-targeting-bernie-sanders-supporters

            It’s also basic common sense. It’s also a known fact that Russians would target Trump voters with propaganda. Even Putin admitted to that. So, why would Russia focus on only Trump voters?

            They wouldn’t. They would be targeting anyone vulnerable to propaganda. That included bernie bros.

          • Parque_Hundido

            That testimony dies not say what you claim. There is ample public record of Russian attempts to discredit the US political system. To attribute this to your political opponents in the US makes you sound insane.

            From your other posts, I get the impression that you’re okay with coming across as unglued.

            Could you please either join a different party or turn down the volume on the crazy?

          • zeddicuskotor

            It does. Russia targeted Bernie supporters with propoganda.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Repeating your outrageous claim does not make it less outrageous.

          • zeddicuskotor

            Watch the video and use common sense. Why wouldn’t Russia target Bernie bros?

          • Parque_Hundido

            Because it would be pointless. It would make much more sense to get the shillaries on board with some conspiracy theories. That’s SOP, dear.

          • zeddicuskotor

            Other way around. Russia didn’t want Clinton to win, so they targeted everyone that was vulnerable to anti-clinton propaganda. Including yourself.

          • Parque_Hundido

            That’s why you’re obviously the victim of Russian brainwashing. Their goal was to discredit the system, not to elect Trump.

            Traitor.

          • zeddicuskotor

            Projection. We know Russia attacked us to prevent Clinton from winning.

          • Parque_Hundido

            You believe that because you’re confused. That’s not Russian SOP, there’s no history of that and there’s no reason to believe that this was the case in 2016. In fact, it appears that the Russians have been trolling Trump (and others) from the very start.

            If you can undo your brainwashing, you might be able to see what’s obvious to observers outside the Clinton bubble.

            Clinton is not the cause here. You seem to have this fundamental confusion.

          • zeddicuskotor

            I know that because of congressional testimony. Try to keep up.

    • Snarky

      You may have asked the best question in this entire thread – who profits from keeping/exacerbating the divide on the left? The GOP, of course, and Russia, who doesn’t really give a rat’s ass who wins because in the end they just want to harm Western democracies every way they can.

  • Parque_Hundido

    Once again, she’d rather spread the misery than help make things better.

    Good riddance.

  • blackstar

    I see the Bernie Cult still can’t get over the truth they were had by the Russian Bot Propaganda machine.

  • Gerry Fisher

    This is all true, and Bernie 100% lost me when he refused to join the Democratic Party after the election. IMO, it isn’t principle on his part as much as one part laziness and one part being a shrewd politician (he’d be held accountable for changing the Democratic Party more so if he joined it). He deserves all the criticism he’s getting from people other than Bernie Bros.

    All that being said, I find it interesting that there is no leak from Hillary’s book about “I wasn’t able to speak effectively against corporate influence in our politics” and “I wasn’t able to connect to middle-class and working-class people in the Rust Belt who’d been hammered by manufacturing moving overseas (outsourcing), a shifting economy, and a horrible opioid epidemic; I mis-judged the level of their fear, frustration, and resentment.”

    She frustrates me to no end. She’s a wonderfully skilled and effective policy wonk and manager with ALMOST NO POLITICAL/CAMPAIGNING SKILLS.

    • Reality.Bites

      Let’s not forget – she won the popular vote by at least three million votes.

      Had this been anywhere close to an fair election, without active voter suppression, she’d have won by a landslide, even with the bots, the bros, Bernie and Stein and would be right now being hailed for running a masterful campaign.

      She didn’t run a perfect campaign. Neither did Obama in 2008 and 2012, or Bill in his time. But like them, she won more votes than anyone else. Unlike Bill, she won a majority.

  • pablo

    The book is a new sacred text for the Church of Clintonology,

  • MUELLER KNOWS

    Dear BernieBros here on JMG,

    You suck.

    Sincerely,

    Western Civilization

    • Anthony_Central_IL

      The signature at the end would have you shunned forever by the current Democratic Party leadership. You made the unforgivable error of using the term “Western Civilization,” which is the term that the vast majority of Americans would have used. According to the current losing Democratic dogma, you were supposed to call it “The Patriarchy” (by which of course they mean “Western Civilization.”) Little wonder why Democrats are on a losing streak.

  • abqdan

    Bernie hurt her; Obama’s advice hurt her; her own policy advisors hurt her; the Russians hurt her; the FBI hurt her. No doubt all those were factors, but at some point, a candidate of substance stops whining and admits “I screwed up”. Remember she vacillated on policy positions until Sanders put forward specifics; it made her look weak, like she was playing catch up. She wasn’t bound to follow Obama’s advice, but she wanted to ride his coat tails so she made a decision to do that. She could have fired any advisors she didn’t like – that’s what a leader would do. Would I much rather have Clinton than Trump? Absolutely. Could Sanders have been an effective president? Maybe, but probably not. But we do need much better progressive candidates from the DNC – ones that don’t buy into a belief it’s ‘their turn this time’, and who can win broader support than Clinton managed.

    • Tread

      She vacillated? Her website sprang fully formed, including concrete policy positions, upon her announcement of her candidacy. She listed specifically what her policy positions were for everything.

      Hillary never rode on anyone’s coattails or thought that it was her turn. People need to stop telling this lie that she thought she had it in the bag. The only thing that was her downfall was assuming that millions of Americans had more common sense than to elect an insane, grifting, cheating, bigoted, woman-abusing, liar reality TV star to the White House.

      • abqdan

        TPP, Cuba, Education, Healthcare, Keystone XL… she changed positions, or initially refused to state an opinion, on numerous issues, until Sanders started proposing clear, progressive positions. Then she adopted, approached or enhanced those positions herself.

        • Ross

          So, Hillary was clear on hundreds of positions but nebulous on a half-dozen…

          …and you damn her for this?

          Glad I am not married to you.

        • Tread

          That’s such bullshit. Sanders challenged her on healthcare? Really? Like she wasn’t the the original politician pushing for universal healthcare? And Cuba? Where do you think Obama got the push to normalize a relationship with them? All of your points are easily refutable.

    • Ross

      “Remember she vacillated on policy positions until Sanders put forward specifics; it made her look weak…”

      Huh? Hillary had a vast amount of highly specific policy positions all clearly stated on her website. And in just two instances, for example, such as child care and the environment, her policies were far more comprehensive and progressive than Bernie’s.

      “She wasn’t bound to follow Obama’s advice, but she wanted to ride his coat tails”

      Huh? And how do you know this? You seen unaware that her and Obama worked together closely for four years and likely formed a bond. That they both had similar policy approaches is not a surprise.

      It would have been idiocy for her to ignore Obama. And I was deeply touched watching them together on the stage of the Convention.

      “It’s their turn this time…”

      Huh? Whenever somebody states this they proves their idiocy. Hillary never stated it was her turn. She simply ran for office, as did four other D candidates. All threw their hat in the ring. But only Hillary won the nomination.

      “and who can win broader support than Clinton managed.”

      Huh? You seem unaware that Hillary received more votes than any white male in history. Gee, that seems like pretty broad support.

      • abqdan

        I loved Obama – I’d have given him a third term if we could. It’s Clinton’s position in her book that she felt hemmed in by Obama’s advice.

  • Leo

    I was away from JMG on vacation in Alaska for the past two weeks and scrolled down to this story specifically (skipping the rest) just to see the comments and they’re exactly what I expected, a complete clusterfuck. My two cents and I’m out…

    Bernie WILL NOT WIN IN 2020. The Obama to Trump Rust Belt flippers won’t magically come back to the man from Vermont that wants the end of Wall Street speculation to pay for 90% of his proposals which is never happening in my lifetime. Hillary, saint or devil, is not running again. We all need to fucking move ON from both of them as Trump likely isn’t getting impeached – if anything…has a great chance of re-election.

    I’m so fucking tired of this bullshit. There’s good people in this country either fooled by the scapegoating and delusion that Cheetolini cares about mankind or too cynical to speak up about his bankrupt version of morality in the first place.

    Change only seems to come on the precipice of a crisis. We’re better than this.

    • MaryJOGrady

      Bernie would have been red-baited into the sub-basement if he’d been the nominee last year. If he is nominated in 2020, the Democratic Party will have committed suicide.

      • Anthony_Central_IL

        In 1980 at the age of about 40, Bernie served as a national elector for a Trotskyist Marxist party, the Socialist Workers Party. Recently, Hillary declared that “Yes, the future is female.” Both Bernie and Hillary are both enamored of Linda Sarsour, a hijab-wearing sharia law advocate who famously tweeted to female critics “I wish I could take their vaginas away” (not to mention Sarsour’s implied support for the death penalty for being gay, which is part of sharia law.) The majority of American voters are repulsed by both of these candidates. Toxic identity politics spells doom for the Democratic Party, and—based on many on the comments on this thread—there is no light at the end the tunnel anytime soon.

        • andrew

          Actually rather than being repulsed by Hillary over 66,000,000 people chose her to be our POTUS.

  • aagold76 .

    I can’t think of One thing Hillary did to Bernie that Obama didn’t do to her in their primary- that’s politics, folks! They have found that 12% of Bernie voters voted for Trump- that’s the election right there! Because a bunch of spoiled brats got pissed at mean Hillary, they voted for the man who’s the polar opposite of him. I always said, any that sat out or voted Trump in a hissy fit- we should be allowed to slap silly!

  • JamesR

    I’d like to hear her excuse not making Bernie an offer he couldn’t refuse to be on the ticket with her. Later, say in ten years.

    If I truly wanted to be the leader of the Free World, or at least POTUS, I wold have put it something like this: “I suck at campaigning, you are awesome. I might lose and that would endanger the nation and world and fuck us all for decades WHAT DO YOU WANT I will give it to you you must do it.”

    WTF Hillary? W. T. F. ? That’s how power IS DONE. We [all] now face the existential threat and obscenity that is Trump & co. The campaign was not a dress rehearsal nor junior prom or something it was WAR, that’s what you do. She put petty feuds and clan above country. Heckofajob.

    Hillary’s moment was then. Not now, it just grates. She has no political future so the by the same rules above she needs to subtract herself from the present. So we can ALL come together to fight this fire or we will ALL burn. We need to fight it WITH NEW PEOPLE so she and her kith and kin need to step aside. The tiny acorns we need to be trees soon won’t grow as fast as they need to with a bitter old hollow loser one shading them out.

  • J Ascher

    Come on, Hills! Admit you ran a poor campaign – I didn’t see nearly the online advertising for you as I did for Trump. Now’s not the time to go Nixonian, Goldwater Girl.

  • bjtwuk

    All of the polls of Bernie vs. Trump had Bernie significantly ahead. All of the polls of Hillary vs. Trump had Hillary either a tie or merely slightly ahead. On August 25, 2017, Federal Judge William Zloch concluded that “the DNC and Wasserman Schultz held a palpable bias in favor Clinton and sought to propel her ahead of her Democratic opponent.” That is, a federal court agreed that the DNC rigged the primary against Bernie Sanders in favor of Hillary Clinton.

    Bernie Sanders supported a $15 minimum wage. Hillary Clinton did not.
    Bernie Sanders supported single payer health insurance. Hillary Clinton did not.
    Bernie Sanders supported free college tuition. Hillary Clinton did not.
    Bernie Sanders opposed imposing a no-fly zone over Siria. Hillary Clinton supported the no-fly zone, which could have put the U.S. at war with Russia.

    There are definite tangible policy reasons why Hillary Clinton lost the election. It was not Bernie’s fault. It was Hillary Clinton’s fault. It is sad that after losing in 2008 and again in 2016 that Hillary Clinton is still incapable of accepting her own role in not being elected president of the United States.

    • danolgb

      1) Polls during the primaries of the general are meaningless.
      2) The judge concluded no such thing. You left out a very important part of the quote.
      “In evaluating Plaintiffs’ claims at this stage, the Court assumes their allegations are true..”
      In other words, he said in order to find standing he had to assume that the plaintiffs had made their case. He did not say they did. You guys would do well in learning how to read a judgement. Especially one where you guys lost.

      • bjtwuk

        1) In the end, the general election did, in fact, turn out to have results very close to those polls that you referred to as “meaningless”.

        2) Debbie Wasserman-Schultz was forced to resign in disgrace from her position as chair of the DNC because she lied about treating both candidates even-handedly. Furthermore, the DNC argued in court that they were under no obligation to be without bias.

        The point I was trying to make is that Hillary Clinton is mistaken that it was Bernie Sanders’ fault that she lost the election. He even endorsed her after his primary loss.

        I voted for Hillary Clinton in the general election in spite of her refusal to stake out progressive and populist policy positions. Many people in states where it counted did not vote for her because she refused to run a populist campaign. I firmly believe that had she done so, she would have won. She needs to accept responsibility for the fact that her center-right policy positions abandoned her base and were collectively the reason why she lost the general election.

        One thing that Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have in common is that neither of them is willing to accept the blame for their failures.

        • danolgb

          1) Not really, the race was razor thin in three states. Barely enough to put Trump over the top and only because stupid people believed the BS that Bernie was cheated. He was not. Bernie, on the other hand, wasn’t vetted. He would have been annihilated by all the dirt the GOP has on him. Hillary didn’t go for the jugular because she saw a larger picture that Bernie didn’t see. Bernie didn’t seem to actually care that he was handing the White House to Trump. And neither did his followers.
          2) DWS stepped down only so that she wouldn’t be the center of attention at the convention. It was in no way an admission of guilt by any means. But, the DNC is under no obligation to be without bias. That is merely a fact. Neither is the GOP and neither is the Green Party. But again, that doesn’t mean the primaries were rigged. Bernie just failed to turn out the votes. To the tune of 4,000,000 less votes than her. The DNC didn’t do that. Bernie pissing off the Democratic base with his ego trip and his dismissal of PoC did.
          Bernie had already caused so much damage that his endorsement and his half-assed campaigning wasn’t enough to overcome it.
          Hillary did have progressive and populist positions. Her mistake was putting it in detailed plans and expecting people to read it. You’ve already shown you don’t understand the written word. Bernie was soundbites, he wasn’t substance. He never had near the detailed plans that Hillary did for a wide range of issues we face. And when he did, he practically copied them from her site.
          And when is Bernie going to accept the blame for his failure, you hypocrite?

          • bjtwuk

            I was happy to have a conversation with you. However, each of your replies to me have included Ad Hominem attacks. You have told me that I cannot read. You have told me that I don’t understand the written word. You have called me a hypocrite. On the other hand, I have never made personal remarks about you. I am done. Good night.

      • Parque_Hundido

        Denying polls you don’t like doesn’t do your credibility any favors. Math is hard, but some of us understand it very well. The polls were far from meaningless. Clintons rejection ratings always outpaced her approval ratings.

        It’s true that the judge’s words were not findings of fact. But you ignore what matters here: the lawyers for the DNC claimed they had no obligation to adhere to party rules or to be honest in their disclosures to donors. That was their *defense*.

        You are a witness for the prosecution. That you don’t see why suggests the depths of your self deception.

        • danolgb

          Actually, the lawyers said no such thing. They said the party gets to set the rules and if they wanted to, they don’t have to hold primaries at all, they could go back to picking a candidate without primaries. That is a statement of fact. It was not an admission of any wrongdoing.
          Just Michael Sainato of Jared Kushner’s Observer.com likes to spin lies because you idiots fall for it. Also, donors don’t get a say just by donating. When you give a donation, it’s a gift, the party can do with it where they find the most good. It doesn’t create a contract. But then again, the judge found that even if it did, no donor read the Charter before donating.
          As for the polls, Bernie was unvetted. For all the complaining you guys did about him not getting enough media coverage, you would have hated it if the media had actually gone through his record. The man literally stole electricity from his neighbors. How do you think that would play?

          • Parque_Hundido

            Sorry, not only are you bad at math, you suck at reading too. I read the arguments in the case. They said exactly what I claimed: that the rules of the organization basically leaders to do whatever the hell they want because, buried in the fine print, there is language that endows those leaders with executive powers to do whatever the hell they want. The lawyers argued that there is no duty to donors or to members to uphold the rules of the party, to be transparent or to be minimally honest because of those articles in the Party’s charter.

            You completely misunderstand the law, which comes as no surprise since you also struggle with reading and math. Money given to a party is not a donation like one given to a 501(c)(3), it follows a different set of rules. Political parties are corporate vehicles and are subject to specific legislation. They cannot accept money under false pretenses. The DNC’s defense is that dishonesty and even the intention of using money in a manner other than what is publicly declared does not constitute false pretenses.

            It’s a blue-ribbon, gold-medal weasel of a defense. That it doesn’t make you ill speaks volumes about you.

            Again, being unable to read for detail doesn’t do much to bolster your now completely exhausted claims to credibility.

            I’m not sure who “you guys” are. I was not a Sanders supporter, although your claim otherwise is a standard Shillary tactic: all dissent, all criticism and all reasonable attempts to gain intelligence from being aware of the big picture must be attributed to misogynist “bernie bros”. That’s why the Clinton campaign spent some of their dumbest dollars paying bloggers and other trolls to cast Sanders supporters as “Bernie bros”, despite the obvious lesson from marketing that your competitors’ fans just haven’t had a chance to get to know you. Rather than building bridges, they chose to poison the well.

            You reap what you sow.

            The problem was this: when Americans got to know Clinton, they saw a swamp dwelling insider, a middling career politician who ran a campaign fueled by smug condescension and entitlement. That wasn’t a winning recipe.

            Rather than learn your lesson, you continue to obsess with Sanders. Grow up. Learn your lesson. And if you can’t move on, at least get the hell out of the way. You are the problem.

          • danolgb

            Nope. Donations given to a party are not a contract. That’s what the judge found. That’s why he threw out the case. Why is this such a hard concept for you to understand?

          • Parque_Hundido

            Sorry about your reading comprehension issues. Donations to a political party are subject to a contract whose terms are spelled out in the carter.

            It’s one thing to not understand the ruling, it’s quite another to post these confrontationally ignorant thoughtlets.

            You’re a witness in your own prosecution.

          • danolgb

            Nope.. They don’t. That’s why the judge threw the lawsuit out. Period. You guys really are stupid, aren’t you?

            “To the extent Plaintiffs wish to air their general grievances with the DNC or its candidate selection process, their redress is through the ballot box, the DNC’s internal workings, or their right of free speech — not through the judiciary,” Judge William Zloch, a Reagan appointee, wrote in his dismissal. “To the extent Plaintiffs have asserted specific causes of action grounded in specific factual allegations, it is this Court’s emphatic duty to measure Plaintiffs’ pleadings against existing legal standards. Having done so . . . the Court finds that the named Plaintiffs have not presented a case that is cognizable in federal court.”

          • Parque_Hundido

            Your quote has literally nothing to do with the argument you make. Your understanding of corporate law is largely a figment of your imagination.

            Again, the point of law in question is the nature of the obligations – the contract – between leaders of a coporate entity known as a political party and those who enter into a relationship with it as funders, members or even officials.

            The legal finding is that the DNC’s internal organization allows for shenanigans and deception. That was precisely the argument of the DNC lawyers in federal court.

            That you somehow find this to be exculpatory is, to be understated, shocking and appalling, but hardly surprising given your support for Clinton.

          • danolgb

            “My quote” was the fucking ruling, you dolt. The only legal finding was that the donors had no standing because the DNC has no obligation to them under the law. That’s why they can’t go whine to the court and the judge told them to pound sand. Geeze! You really are stupid. The DNC has no obligation to the donors because donations don’t give donors any rights. They never have and never will. In fact, the judge specifically said so:
            “The act of donating to an organization does not, of itself, create a legally protected interest in the organization’s operations.”

          • Parque_Hundido

            Again, you struggle to understand written English

            I’ll try again, slower: your quote has nothing to do with your claim. You appear to have selected text at random, or you don’t understand the words. Or both.

            You are the problem here. Not just because you can’t understand this court case, but also because of that.

          • Ninja0980

            That or his wife’s problems with Burlington college.

          • danolgb

            Of course they want free college. That’s where they milk the system. Not only was there the bad land deal, but Jane contracted with her daughter’s woodworking school. Nepotism runs in the family.

  • SDG

    And in more… “who really gives a fuck news”…

  • David Kerlick

    After the nomination, Bernie was on board. Before the nomination, he rightly criticized Hillary for being on board with the Wall Street banks, hedge funds, and the Davosie, who exported millions of jobs to 3rd world sweatshops, and those workers voted for Drumpf.

  • Anthony_Central_IL

    My comment, which the blog owner has just censored, will have to serve as an email to him: “Don’t expect electoral success anytime soon.”

  • I really like Bernie Sanders, I think he is an outstanding progressive voice in the `Senate, and would have made a vastly better President than ANY Republican let alone the steaming pile of Orange tinted Nazi dung America is currently saddled with. That being said…. the one line from HRC’s that rings painfully true is; “He didn’t get into the race to make sure a Democrat won the White House, he got in to disrupt the Democratic Party.” That is entirely true. Sanders wasn’t ( and isn’t) a Democrat he suddenly “became one” to run for President. This is NOT to say the Democratic Party wasn’t ( and still isn’t) in serious need of disruption. Yet Bernie’s campaign did far more to help elect Trump than it did to advance his ideals and agenda.

  • Mihangel apYrs

    “https://www.cbsnews.com/news/clinton-on-qaddafi-we-came-we-saw-he-died/”

    This nauseated me: someone may need to be removed, though killing them is the barbarians solution, but to joke about it is abhorrent.

    Had I been a US citizen I would have voted Democratic despite her, but with a feeling of disgust – we are supposed to be better than “them”

  • Dan Mac

    How much longer until enough boomers die so actual progressives can retake the Democratic party from these centrist scum?

    If you want the youth vote back next election, listen to them this time. They told you Hillary couldn’t beat Trump.

    And you have no one to blame but yourselves.

    Learn the lesson, unlike your dear leader, or prepare for Trumps landslide in 2020.

    • joe ho

      lol.

      You’re operating under the faulty assumption that Bernie could have won.

      The US is not going to turn into a Brocialist workers’ paradise.

      Learn the lesson or prepare for another GOP victory.

      After 4 years of Trump, the far-left will return to its senses and vote blue no matter who. Just like most centrists do.

      Delete yourself. You’re the scum.

      • Dan Mac

        Until you give up on the concept of a moderate republican, we’re all doomed to continued republican control.

        The only alternative is a retroactive concession of the Civil War.

      • Dan Mac

        The kids will not vote against a candidate.

        They will vote for a candidate.

        You will never win elections based on “Not Trump”

        The scare tactics don’t work. We have called their bluff.

        • joe ho

          lol.

          DNC had the most progressive platform in history. Not good enough for far-left purists.

          Third-term elections are hard to win. It took Wikileaks, Russia, a rogue FBI, GOP voter suppression to bring her down in a third-term election. Still got more votes than any one in history other than Obama 2008.

          Millennials went overwhelmingly for Clinton.

          AFter 4 years of Trump, millennials will vote for anyone NOT Trump/GOP.

          Delete yourself. You’re worthless scum.

          • Dan Mac

            Keep telling yourself that.

            Are you going to keep blaming Bernie when you lose in 2020?

            I will never vote for a candidate who doesn’t support universal healthcare. Keep that in mind next primary season. You might get my vote back.

            Hillary not only didn’t support it, she said it would “never ever happen”

            Hillary only has herself to blame for me not voting for her.

          • joe ho

            lol.

            You have only yourself to blame for being an imbecile.

            The universe doesn’t owe you or anyone else a candidate that makes you tingly all over.

            In a binary system, it’s choosing the lesser of two evils. That’s the bottom line.

            Even far-left icon Chomsky, who dislikes Clinton strongly, says you fucktard scumbags who didn’t vote for Clinton in the general made a very bad mistake.
            http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/307570-chomsky-liberals-who-didnt-vote-for-clinton-made-a-bad-mistake

            Losers like you are why the USA can’t have nice things. 2000. 2016.

            Delete yourself. You’re an infantile, narcissitic, self-destructive piece of shit.

          • Dan Mac

            You’re amusing

            I live in New York, Hillary took my state, so no, my Jill vote had no impact on the general election.

            But I vote third party precisely because of that lesser of two evils bullshit. Because I live in a state where our electoral votes are pre-ordained, the only beneficial thing I can do with my general election vote is try to get third party candidates on that debate stage.

            The only way to break this stranglehold is to threaten to take power away from them entirely.

            So go ahead, keep voting the lesser of two evils. Punt the problem to the next generation, just like the boomers did to us.

            I’ve got kids, I’m gonna do anything in my power to make it so they don’t have to deal with these same issues.

            I vote for candidates, not against them.

            Clinton was a fundamentally flawed candidate. Until you accept that and stop blaming Bernie, you are going to continue to lose.

            And if you want me to take the general seriously, you’re going to have to eliminate the electoral college and first past the post elections first. The only election that matters in New York is the primary. That’s why I’ve been registered democrat for 23 years.

            The two party system is a bigger problem then either of the parties separately. We need to implement a system that encourages compromise, and parliamentary systems are way better at that.

          • joe ho

            lol.

            A fundamentally flawed candidate who got more votes than any other candidate in history except Obama in 2008.

            If you can’t deal with the lesser of two evils reality, then you’re a deplorable. As bad as the worst Trumpanzee.

            It’s too bad you have children. I hope you’re not infecting them with your narcissistic, infantile attitude toward reality.

            The reason the GOP wins so many elections is because conservatives are strong on tribal loyalty–even though their policies are less popular. They will eat their own vomit to keep Dems out of power. The left on the other hand lack tribal loyalty. If their feelings are hurt or if they don’t think their candidate is pure enough, they will sulk off, protest vote, or even worse, sabotage.

            Until the far-left starts acting like responsible voters, they can’t be taken seriously. When push comes to shove (as in third-term elections) they’ve shown they can’t be counted on.

          • Dan Mac

            And I think you’re deplorable for accepting the lesser of two evils and doing nothing to eliminate it.

            I’m not ok with the status quo. No amount of random stranger’s on the internet calling me mean things it’s going to shame me for something I’m not ashamed of.

            So, either learn to work with me, or learn to work with those imaginary moderate republicans.

          • joe ho

            lol.

            Well aren’t you a special little snowflake stomping your feet and demanding that everyone do as you say, or you’ll storm off and pout!

            You’re an infantile, narcissistic mess. I feel sorry for your kids.

            Change comes progressively and gradually. You’re not going to blow up the system.

            The US isn’t going to turn into a Brocialist workers’ paradise. That’s where you make your fundamental error.

            Bernie couldn’t even win California–and that was with the GOP, Wikileaks and Russia in his corner. In the general, they would have crushed him like a bug.

          • Dan Mac

            If your unfounded insults have failed to elicit the desired reaction thus far, what makes you think repeating them is going to have any effect?

            You can keep railing at “berniebros” right up until Trump wins reelection, then who are you going to blame?

            Trump isn’t the problem. The system that made us choose between Clinton and Trump is the problem. Open your eyes. The only reason we can’t change the system is because you believe them when they tell us that. It’s not true.

            Grow a set. Stand up for what’s right, not what’s convenient.

          • joe ho

            lol.

            You’re the one who needs to grow a set. And set aside your childish, narcissistic, ultimately self-defeating voting behavior.

            The universe doesn’t owe you an ideal candidate. You need to work with what you’re dealt. That’s what mature people do.

          • Dan Mac

            And you need some new insults. You’ve grown boring.

          • joe ho

            lol.

            Oh. The little princess and the pea is now bored. You are a fucking infantile mess.

          • Dan Mac

            http://www.Thesaurus.com

            Check it out, it’ll make you seem smarter.

            Unfortunately, it won’t actually make you smarter.

          • joe ho

            lol.

            Oh, the little princess knows a big, bad word with ancient Greek roots.

            What a very pretentious little princess you are. Too funny. And sad.

          • Dan Mac

            You seriously believe thesaurus is pretentious?

            You’re too stupid to argue with.

          • joe ho

            lol.

            You’re too stupid and out of touch with reality to be a judge of much of anything.

          • danolgb

            Anyone who thinks Jill Stein had qualifications to run the country might as well have voted for Trump. She was less qualified than he was! I mean, she basically sat on an HOA board. That was her qualifications. These guys are idiots.
            Also, while you vote for the candidates presented to you. Hillary was hardly evil. She was lied about constantly by the right and the far left, but she really is and always has been a progressive. She did more towards Bernie’s own goals as just First Lady than he has in his 25 years of Congress. He’s a fraud. But they can’t see that. Just as they can’t see that anyone who cast a vote for Jill Stein is an idiot.

          • joe ho

            Pretentious and self-righteous to boot.

          • Dan Mac

            What part of Hillary won my state did you fall to comprehend?

          • danolgb

            You being an idiot and voting for the worst candidate on the ticket and Hillary winning your state can both be true.

          • Dan Mac

            What benefit would one more vote for Hillary in a state she won by a landslide have done?

            Had Jill gotten 5%, 2020 would be a very different election.

            I was voting for more options in the next election.

            The two party system needs to end.

            As long as the electoral college exists, I have no reason to vote for either major party.

          • danolgb

            Until the Green Party actually works to get people in lower offices, they have no business putting anyone into the Presidency especially if they’re stupid enough to keep running Jill Stein. Besides, for all the accusations people make at the DNC, the Green Party is 20 times worse. They don’t even bother to ask 12 states their opinion.
            I mean, sure, let Jill Stein debate. She’d only make a bigger fool out of herself than she already is.

          • Dan Mac

            You completely misunderstand the end game here.

            It’s not just getting her on the stage, it’s getting the greens and the libertarians federal funding.

            It’s challenging the power base of the two party system in order to force them to change the rules. It’s making sure no party has a majority so they are forced to compromise.

            And yes, it is a protest vote. Against the two party system and the electoral college.

            My vote in a general election for either major party candidate accomplishes exactly nothing. By voting third party I might actually do some good.

          • danolgb

            No.. you just show yourself to be an idiot with the same stupid false equivalencies you all present.

          • Dan Mac

            Explain why it’s a false equivalency.

            Do you live in New York? Do you understand the political landscape here?

            Do you understand how the electoral college works?

            Because calling it a false equivalency makes me seriously doubt your comprehension of how elections actually work.

          • danolgb

            Yes, I understand how the electoral college works and how propping up stupid third parties would hand the Republicans more election wins despite losing in the popular vote. But we’re not going to change the electoral college in our lifetime. It would require a constitutional amendment. Which will definitely not happen as long as you idiots keep handing the Republicans what they want on a silver platter.

          • Dan Mac

            Again, Hillary won my state.

            I handed no one anything.

          • Dan Mac

            Also, Maryland has already eliminated the electoral college, if other states would follow their lead.

          • danolgb

            Talk about not knowing what you’re talking about. They didn’t “eliminate the electoral college.” It’s a US Constitutionally created system. Their idea is their electoral college votes would go to the winner of the national popular vote. BUT, and this is a mighty big but, their idea would only go into effect if an electoral-college majority of other states chose to do it too. So, it’s basically grandstanding.

          • Dan Mac

            It’s something every state can do individually

            I’m sorry you’re so cynical and cowed you think we can’t do this, but we totally can

          • danolgb

            Nope.. Electoral College remains until a constitutional change. What Maryland did was start a compact that changes how they award their EC Votes. Also, they did it in 2007. While 9 other states, including CA, have also joined, the compact does not take affect until a majority of State EC votes have joined.
            “The agreement would go into effect among the participating states in the compact only after they collectively represent an absolute majority of votes (currently at least 270) in the Electoral College.”
            Also, it’s funny you’re a cheerleader for it. It would pretty much guarantee 3rd parties never ever have a chance.
            It’s cute you think you know what you’re talking about and what it would mean, but you clearly don’t have a clue.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact

          • Dan Mac

            1) my vote would actually count, and

            2) coupled with ranked choice voting we’d almost have a fair system.

            That’s what it would take to get me to stop voting third party

            Until that point, I really have no incentive to do so.

          • danolgb

            This is a graph of data compiled by UCLA on congress’s votes and legislation presented by party and scored on a liberal to conservative scale for economic matters. The lie that the Dems have moved to the right is just that. And it’s perpetuated by the right to divide the left. You see, the GOP doesn’t mind if you vote third party. Just as long as it takes a vote away from the Dem candidate. They have discovered that splitting the left or keeping people on the left from being able to vote is more productive than actually getting people to vote for their candidate. Propping up stupid third parties is fine by them and you play right into it.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/24c1270f96a86ca6912d2351104475fea886368a65446b1b2bc4ec44d6f5b749.jpg

          • Dan Mac

            You’re arguing against a strawman. I never said the dems moved right.

          • Dan Mac

            Also, if I lived in Michigan or Wisconsin and voted third party, you might have a point about dividing the vote.

            But I don’t. I live in a state that reliably votes for whoever the dems nominate.

          • Dan Mac

            Enjoy Trumps second term.

  • Joseph Miceli

    Yawn. Bernie exemplifies everything good about progressivism and liberalism . He stands for everything the democratic party platform says it stands for , but is always too chickenshit to go ahead and put in place .
    What is Hillary’s purpose with this memoir ? Is this payback ? It certainly isn’t helping to promote party unity . Maybe she’s just doing it for the money . It wouldn’t be the first time . Oh and I voted for Hillary.
    If Hillary wants to identify the reason she lost she should buy a mirror.
    Apres moi, le deluge!

  • stanhope

    Hillary doll, i wanted you to win (only because Biden didn’t run) but you (aided by the impotents-democratic party) didn’t read the tea leaves. America wasn’t interested in you paling around with Beyonce and Cher…you needed more touch with the working class…both Bernie and Elizabeth showed you that. Blind is blind sister. Like a good soldier, you waited your turn after Obama, you thought it was your due and that Trump hadn’t a snowball’s chance in hell. Well overconfidence often bites you in the ass. Next time, if there is one, call Tyler Henry not Tyler Perry.

  • ThelmaSTaylor

    Google is paying 97$ per hour! Work for few hours and have longer with friends & family!!!
    On tuesday I got a great new Land Rover Range Rover from having earned $8752 this last four weeks.. Its the most-financialy rewarding I’ve had.. It sounds unbelievable but you wont forgive yourself if you don’t check it >>>http://GoogleFinancialJobsCash48TopNetwork/GetPay$97/Hour….

  • Akrontru

    “IN 2016, HILLARY CLINTON acknowledged the existence of systemic racism more explicitly than any of her modern Democratic predecessors. She had to—black voters remembered too well the previous Clinton administration, as well as her previous campaign. While her husband’s administration had touted the rising-tide theory of economic growth, it did so while slashing welfare and getting “tough on crime,” a phrase that stood for specific policies but also served as rhetorical bait for white voters. One is tempted to excuse Hillary Clinton from having to answer for the sins of her husband. But in her 2008 campaign, she evoked the old dichotomy between white workers and loafing blacks, claiming to be the representative of “hardworking Americans, white Americans.” By the end of the 2008 primary campaign against Barack Obama, her advisers were hoping someone would uncover an apocryphal “whitey tape,” in which an angry Michelle Obama was alleged to have used the slur. During Bill Clinton’s presidential-reelection campaign in the mid-1990s, Hillary Clinton herself had endorsed the “super-predator” theory of William J. Bennett, John P. Walters, and John J. DiIulio Jr. This theory cast “inner-city” children of that era as “almost completely unmoralized” and the font of “a new generation of street criminals … the youngest, biggest and baddest generation any society has ever known.” The “baddest generation” did not become super-predators. But by 2016, they were young adults, many of whom judged Hillary Clinton’s newfound consciousness to be lacking.” Ta-Nehisi Coates, The Atlantic