AUSTRALIA: Rules On Deceptive Materials Won’t Apply To Marriage Plebiscite, LGBT Activists Sue To Stop It

The Sydney Morning Herald reports:

Lobbyists on both sides of the marriage equality debate will be free to distribute misleading and deceptive material ahead of the same-sex marriage postal vote, because the usual campaign rules have been discarded.

In order to circumvent the Senate, the Turnbull government’s optional marriage survey will be conducted by the Australian Bureau of Statistics, meaning the safeguards of the Commonwealth Electoral Act would not apply.

Senator Cormann said “the usual laws apply” regarding fraud and mail theft, but acknowledged there would be no legal protections for LGBTI people who fear they will be the victim of a vicious two-month hate campaign.

He said questions about inflammatory campaign material were “pre-emptive”. “We trust the Australian people,” he told ABC’s RN Drive. “We certainly call on all Australians [to participate] courteously and respectfully.”

The Associated Press reports:

Gay-rights advocates filed a court challenge Thursday to the government’s unusual plan to canvass Australians’ opinion on gay marriage next month, while a retired judge said he would boycott the survey as unacceptable.

The mail ballot is not binding, but the conservative government won’t legislate the issue without it. If most Australians say “no,” the government won’t allow Parliament to consider lifting the nation’s ban on same-sex marriage.

“We will be arguing that by going ahead without the authorization of Parliament, the government is acting beyond its power,” lawyer Jonathon Hunyor said.

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said the government had legal advice that the postal ballot would withstand a court challenge. “I encourage every Australian to exercise their right to vote on this matter. It’s an important question,” Turnbull said.

  • Gustav2

    Could they do anything else to help it fail?

    • vorpal 😼

      Living in an international expat community here in Chile, I’ve known a few Australians and they are all utterly embarrassed for their country for lagging behind the US on this matter when most of the rest of the first world has long moved on and realized that the oft threatened Gaypocalypse isn’t coming.

      • Gustav2

        Worse than the USA is a slur!

      • Ernest Endevor

        So tell me, this international ex-pat community, is this where I should be thinking of moving?

        Because I could likely catch a plane tonight. Or first thing in the morning. Plus, I’m big in Quito, so there’s that.

        • vorpal 😼

          Chile is… a mixed bag. Some things are completely awesome, and others leave you on the verge of your head exploding over how they came to be.

          For example, I needed extensive blood tests for my Crohn’s recently, and the medical care here is great if you have insurance: very fast, excellent doctors, no referrals required.

          However, when I went to get my blood tested the first time, they asked at the lab if I fasted. I said yes, for 16 hours, and they said that was too long and it had to be precisely between 10 and 12 hours and to come back the next day.

          Came back the next day and said I fasted for 10.5 hours. They said they could only do the tuberculosis test (the most important of the tests for the med they want to put me on) between 3:00 PM and 4:30 PM because that yields optimal results.

          Instructions would have been nice IN ADVANCE, but even in light of them, the only possible way I could have won was to set an alarm between 3:00 AM and 5:00 AM and eaten something, and then gone to the clinic between 3:00 and 4:30 PM.

          If you can tolerate the feeling of constant confusion while surrounded by beautiful mountains and the Pacific Ocean, with decent people, utterly delicious and incredibly cheap wine, and excellent cost of living, then Chile is for you :-).

          We like it a lot here, but were looking forward to moving back to Hawaii… until November 8, 2016. Now we’re planning on staying here a bit longer.

          • Ernest Endevor

            Many thanks. I grew up in England and Scotland so I’m totally down with confusion. It would mean drugging the hubby to get him on a plane – I don’t think there’s time to find a freighter – but I’m on Expedia checking options. We’ll put the pugs in carry-on and the boxer is a service dog so that’s fine. If she’s not with me my level of gayness can drop to an unsustainable level and I start spitting on the sidewalk. I have a letter from my doctor.

          • vorpal 😼

            Chile – even though it’s mainly Catholic – is a fairly progressive country (although they still don’t have women’s right to choose). The taxi driver we had yesterday had Jesus trinkets all over his cab and when he asked if we were brothers and we told him we were actually married, he went on a rant about how Chile took way too long to legalize gay marriage and that it showed a total lack of respect to gay people.

            The best part is that I feel quite safe here. People seldom seem to give South America much more than an afterthought. I’m still convinced that the uneducated US conservative masses think everything south of the US is Mexico.

          • Ernest Endevor

            What a nice story. I live in a rural, beautiful, historic, liberal pocket of NY state, in the Catskills. People here are also welcoming.

            As to the USAnians thinking everything south of Texas is Mexico, since I seemed to think that Quito is in Chile I better STFU. But I do seem to remember, dimly, from school that Chile has a Mediterranean climate without the – you know – slick of Bain de Soleil on the sea. I can’t do it for a while but when I can I think I might visit, since it’s nowhere I’d think of going and now am hungry to try the local falafel. I’ve eaten falafel in the capitals of Europe and am looking to try further afield. That’s always assuming anything’s left this time next week.

          • vorpal 😼

            Glad to hear that people in your area are so welcoming :-).

            Where I live in subtropical Chile (a few hours north of Santiago, the capital where most of the population lives), the climate is fantastic. The vast majority of days are sunny with seldom a cloud in sight, and the temperature ranges across the year from about 10 – 25C / 50 – 75F. Since the country is so long, though, the climate can vary quite a bit from the north to the south.

            One of the things that surprises people the most about Chile is that there is pretty much no such thing as spicy food here. People seem to assume that all Latin American cuisine is spicy. Chileans in general have an extremely low tolerance for chilli peppers and at the farmer’s market, will swear up and down that their chillies are “super hot.” We get them home to find them barely above a bell pepper in terms of spice. Most of the food here is a bit bland, but the beef is amazing, plentiful, and incredibly cheap, so fillet is a regular thing for us.

            Ha! Don’t feel bad. As a Canadian, I knew absolutely nothing about Chile before I got here except for the fact that I thought it was one of the weirdest shaped countries in the world.

          • Reality.Bites

            I learned the same thing years ago about Colombia while dating a Colombian living in Canada

          • Reality.Bites

            Nonsense! There’s also Puerto Rico which they still don’t realize is part of the US. Same as New York, come to think of it

          • vorpal 😼

            LOL!

            It’s a huge stretch, like his golfing pants, but one positive thing to say about Trump: through this North Korean ordeal, some Americans have probably learned about the existence of Guam.

        • Octavio

          Condo and house prices in Sitges have skyrocketed beyond reason, but you can still find a nice little fixer-upper farmette on the land above the beaches of Castelldefels (only a 15 minute train ride south from the Sans train station in Barcelona).

          • Reality.Bites

            What is beyond reason? In some places a fixer-upper is a million or more

          • Octavio

            In Castelldefels you can stiff find condos that don’t need fixing up for 275 Euros.

      • Ben in Oakland

        The rest of the civilized world, You mean.

    • They’ll think of something.

    • Reality.Bites

      Judging by the ratings for Marco Pierre White’s Hells kitchen, they could put the referendum on 7 and no one would even know it’s happening.

  • JWC

    Just quit tugging on the “wings’ and get on with it pass the damned bill

  • Kelly Lape

    “We trust the Australian people,” he told ABC’s RN Drive. “We certainly call on all Australians [to participate] courteously and respectfully.”

    – Those who fail to learn history are destined to make the same mistakes. To “trust” so-called Christians to behave courteously and respectfully is an idiot’s mission.

    • “Courteously and respectfully”? That’s bigot-speak for “do as we say”.

  • Halou

    “If most Australians say “no,” the government won’t allow Parliament to consider lifting the nation’s ban on same-sex marriage.”
    And if most Australians say “yes” the government still won’t allow Parliament to move ahead with the change because the vote is non-binding anyway.

    • Ninja0980

      Several of the bigots have made that perfectly clear already.

      • Maryfcrawford

        Dynamic40j

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      • Rosiedmercer

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  • bkmn

    Number of countries damaged by marriage equality = ZERO

    • (((GC)))

      Let’s have some facts here!

      For instance, conservative Bible-believing, God-fearing Christians can’t even begin to count the number of ministers forced to marry same-sex couples in the countries that recognize such marriages.

      Fortunately, Americans United is bravely attempting a running count: http://numberofministersforcedtomarrysamesexcouples.com/
      (click on an underlined number for more details)

      (edit) /s
      (the website “Number Of Ministers Forced To Marry Same-Sex Couples” is real and factual, though)

      • (((GC)))

        Similar facts, with links to credible, peer-reviewed research, at the site “How Do Vaccines Cause Autism?” http://howdovaccinescauseautism.com/

      • Ben in Oakland

        Same as the polygamy argument. How many countries have legalized polygamy once they have gay ,arraign? They can’t begin to count those countries.

        But what’s really funny, is that the only people ever say that “now we have to legalize polygamy, we have no choice…” are religious conservatives.

        And everywhere and everywhen that legalized polygamy has been practiced, it is a heterosexual institution. That is certainly the case in christian Africa TODAY.

        It’s almost as if hey are projecting all of their own sins onto the usual scapegoat.

        • (((GC)))

          There would be nothing wrong with legally recognizing plural marriages between consenting adults, with women able to take as many husbands and/or wives as they want.

          (UNlike the Abrahamic religious/cultural institutions! And I’m including polygamous Mormons there.)

          It’s almost as if they are projecting all of their own sins…
          Exactly! https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/51bf5482096982f30b6e70020c8ff15d99f00e10458b1ace56ca377010f17644.jpg

        • (((GC)))

          I know someone who’s spreading the meme of using a three-line “equals” or equivalence sign, made from 1 1/2 HRC equals signs, to represent equality for plural marriage.

          [edit] (Marriages where consenting adults of any gender are free and empowered to have multiple spouses (spice!), not (just) conservative religious polygyny.)

          https://twitter.com/nosrednayduj/status/655117360404168704

          • The_Wretched
          • (((GC)))

            I agree, the infinite heart is a good, clear symbol for polyamory in general. (Parrots, not so much, since they’re generally monogamous.) That extended “equals sign” is supposed to be specifically for plural-marriage equality.

          • The_Wretched

            Good on symbolism but it’s a bit confusing to me. I guess I’m too used to the Japanese 3 or other uses of three lines and slightly worried about complaints of appropriation. I might evolve on this one.

          • (((GC)))

            Speaking of 3… “Triad” by David Crosby:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aK2e9PjH3o

            You want to know how it will be
            Me and her or you and me
            You both stand there your long hair flowing
            Eyes alive your minds are still growing
            Saying to me–“What can we do now that we both love you”,
            I love you two– I don’t really see
            Why can’t we go on as three

            You are afraid–embarrassed too
            No one has ever in your life said such a thing to you
            Your mother’s ghost stands at your shoulder
            A face like ice–just a little bit colder
            Sayin’ “You can not do that, it breaks all the rules
            You learned in school”
            But I don’t really see
            Why can’t we go on as three

            We love each other–it’s plain to see
            There’s just one answer that comes right away to my mind for me–
            Sister-lovers (you heard about that)–water brothers
            Maybe in time–whole lot of others
            So you see, what we can do is to try something new
            If you’re crazy too
            I don’t really see
            Why can’t we go on as three.
            Mmm-hmmm

          • Ben in Oakland

            The issue with Polygamy is that all of our laws are set up for two people, not more than two. This reaches deeply into every aspect of law: children, family, marriage, contracts, welfare, pensions, benefits, inheritance no and on and on.

          • vorpal 😼

            I’m very pro-polyamory and polyamorous marriage, but I agree fully that it would be a far more difficult thing to legally implement than same-sex marriage: for example, how would it work if you had, say, three people, and one was married to the two others, but they didn’t want to marry each other? It’s not clear and requires some thought how to properly extend rights and protections that are much simpler in the case of two people.

          • (((GC)))
          • Reality.Bites

            One thing I’ve said since the marriage debate started is where is the demand for it?

            Till there are people in poly relationships getting out in the streets and demanding marriage rights it’s completed.

            (funny thing, I was dictating this message through Siri and Siri understood that as holy relationships!)

          • (((GC)))

            …Siri understood that as holy relationships!…

            I knew some Wiccans who had a religious ceremony for adding a third person to their marriage. (Not recognized by the state, obviously.) It won’t surprise me if other liberal religions discover — nudged by secular humanistic values, as in so many other issues — that the option of committed and celebrated poly relationships is something their gods approved of all along. 🙂

          • (((GC)))

            Current law could be extended, so that (1) marriages can’t overlap; you can be in at most one marriage at a time, and (2) all spouses are responsible for any children born or adopted into a marriage.

            Benefits that currently go to spouses or to children would go to all spouses or children. (And many employer-based health insurance plans already require more money from employees for additional family members. Not that health coverage should be employer-based, but that’s a whole different discussion….)

            (Vorpal, your reply https://disqus.com/home/discussion/joemygod/australia_rules_on_deceptive_materials_wont_apply_to_marriage_plebiscite_lgbt_activists_sue_to_stop_/#comment-3461829244 just came up as I was typing this. “Requires some thought” is right!)

            What I’m suggesting is that — just like in current law — each marriage would be a separate group of people who choose that status, none of whom can be in other marriages, regardless of the details of their intimate connections. Fortunately, in civilized countries we’re long past the idea of marriage as a “license for sex”. You wouldn’t necessarily be sleeping with all of your spouses. (So it would work for straight folks as well.) It would all depend on their particular relationships. Some of the spouses might be more like “spouses-in-law” to each other, but legally they’d all be equally connected, and they’d think about that before deciding to form or extend the marriage.

        • Reality.Bites

          Moreover after legalizing marriage Canada made its first big crack down on polygamy

    • vorpal 😼

      Number of conservative Christians butt-hurt that they’re no longer more special than LGBT people = ALL.

      • bkmn

        And THAT’S a good thing.

  • Rex

    It’s one thing to hate, it’s something else to be ugly about it.
    Just look at the USA, marriage equality is now the law and our country hasn’t collapsed.
    Well, it kinda has, but not because of marriage equality.
    Unless you ask a right wing christian and then it’s totally our fault.
    On second thought, don’t look at us – just do what’s right.

  • worstcultever

    OH, COME THE FUCK ON, AUSTRALIA! GAH! GET THIS SHIT DONE!

  • boobert

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  • Jefe5084

    Damn, they are almost as bad as the U.S.

  • Ninja0980

    Which means all the bigots will be pouring $$ money into Australia a-la Prop 8 to smear and lie about same sex couples.

    • Reality.Bites

      Cue serial failure Brian Brown with a money beg that may just net him enough money for a coach fare to Oz

  • Ben in Oakland

    It’s an important matter? so important that you don’t want fairness rules to apply?

    Gawd, I despise conservatives, especially the chickenshit variety.

    • Reality.Bites

      Everything after the comma was redundant

    • (((GC)))

      Just as in the U.S., all they are trying to “conserve” is (straight/white/male/cis/wealthy/Christian/______/…) [fill in as many as apply] privilege.

  • Treant

    “They’ll want to kidnap your boy children and take them up the mountain to Anal Point. You know what we’re saying here. Vote NO on Proposition Sodom-Eight!”

    • Harveyrabbit

      ” Proposition Sodom-Eight” +1

    • I.Smith

      Make sure your Daughters are not being led to Vaginal Valley. Vote NO on proposition Sodom-Eight

  • Jim Maloney

    “…while a retired judge said he would boycott the survey as unacceptable.”

    I think it’s stupid to vote on this too, but it’s this type of purity thinking that can hurt the pro marriage-equality side if the anti-gay side wins due to low participation. The anti-gay side will call a win a win. Dumb.

    • bob traner

      And that’s one of the reasons the anti-gay bigots in Australia want this postal vote so bad.

      In addition to being allowed to spread misleading and deceptive material in the pre-vote campaign, they’re also relying on low voter participation.

      They saw what happened in the U.S.with progressives being divided by misinformation campaigns by the alt-right and Russians, which allowed Drumph to eke out a win, and maybe are hoping to somehow sow division among Australian progressives in this postal vote campaign.

      The anti-gay bigots in Australia know this postal vote is their last chance to block Marriage Equality and are desperate. Never underestimate their willingness to use every dirty trick in the book to get a win.

      • Jim Maloney

        They’ll try to sell their fear, misinformation and scare tactics that life as they know it will end while the rest of the western countries that now have marriage-equality have had no such experience, live has been fine, and they’ve moved on.

  • Bluto

    If the gays get married they will stop making Tim Tams!

    This will be ugly, a sham & a national disgrace & embarrassment. fuck you turnbull.

  • Dagoril

    This whole thing is a shit show. A “no” vote will end up being binding, a “yes” vote will basically do nothing at all.

    • Friday

      And meanwhile the Christianists have free rein to lie and defame and hatemonger for months on end.

      • David L. Caster

        Then they will have to exposed.

        • Friday

          They’re pretty bald-faced about it at this point, but I hope Australia does better.

  • Cuberly
    • Lazycrockett

      Yesterday though it wasn’t a crisis, it was bad people taking drugs.

      • Bluto

        His nancy-style “just say no” campaign didn’t last long.

        • Lazycrockett

          He didn’t even show up as a guest on Different Strokes?!

          • Treant

            “In tonight’s Very Special Episode, Donald Trump wipes the coke from under his nose while shooting Kimberley as we attempts to knock over a 7-11…”

          • Reality.Bites

            Whatchew talkin about? Willis is the only main cast member alive. Of course Charlotte Rae is still with us too, but she left early to teach me and all the gay teens of my generation that teenage girls are way more fun than teenage boys!

          • Treant

            “That’s not Mrs. Garrett’s bosom. Please notice the sun spots on the right can.” –Family Guy

    • Treant

      Does that mean we cancel elections?

      🙂 Only half kidding…

      • (((GC)))

        Can we have the stolen November 2016 US presidential election declared invalid, and do it over?

    • Lumpy Gaga

      So are my ‘scrips now eligible for Federal funding?

      • The_Wretched

        More likely that they’ll round you up for detention.

    • The_Wretched

      I’m going to have to read the fine print. I’m sure i don’t really want to know, however, what ’emergency powers’ means.

      And Price said just yesterday that Trump wouldn’t.

  • Sam

    Sometimes I wonder if it is just worth doing the damn referendum. I don’t live in the country but it sounds like Australia has some strong laws against deceptive materials and the referendum would be compulsory so everyone would be required to vote. Polls show support is strong on the equality side. Yes, it sucks to have people vote on other people’s rights (I’ve been involved in marriage referendums here in various US states), but if Australian supporters get strong protections against deceptive propaganda with a compulsory referendum than with a mail-in ballot, why not?

    • Hue-Man

      AUD $525 million for a referendum.

      • Reality.Bites

        For a non-bonding one that in no way obligates the government to act

        It’s a $525 million fuck-you to Australians from an Asshole PM

  • Lazycrockett

    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/895716049412214786

    This stupid fucking POS doesn’t get that McConnell was able to get 49 in the first place. No one else is gonna get that many republicans together on healthcare.

    • Sam_Handwich

      a leadership change at this point would only fracture the caucus more

      Donald is stupid. But we knew that.

    • madknits

      Because he doesn’t understand that a CEO is not the same as President of the country. CEOs fire people who don’t perform. Presidents negotiate or don’t get what they want. He is not only stupid, he is ignorant as well.

    • -M-

      Shh.🙊 Don’t interrupt your enemies while they’re shooting each other.

  • Lazycrockett
  • DisqusD37

    Come on, Australia. Now, it’s just embarrassing.

  • Hank

    “Turnbull government’s optional marriage survey will be conducted by the Australian Bureau of Statistics, meaning the safeguards of the Commonwealth Electoral Act would not apply.”
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d3a9fbd7ed2e2832679cd15777a3220e52f4c425361232de52424da87a710d9a.gif

    • Lumpy Gaga

      Don’t worry. Price-Waterhouse is ON IT!

  • vincent

    Don’t worry. Price-Waterhouse is ON IT!

  • The_Wretched

    hrm, this is quickly devolving into a harmful farce.

  • sword

    “the usual campaign rules have been discarded”…does that mean that the government can then lie about the ballot numbers?

  • Friday

    Cause of course the Christianists are all about the lying.

  • -M-

    Heads I win, tails you lose?

    They won’t vote on marriage equality if the survey says “No” and some of them have stated they’d vote “No” even if the people vote “Yes”.

  • Danieruw

    Oh for fuck’s sake, Australia! We’re all about to die in nuclear conflagrations. Let same-sex couples marry so they can die legally wed!

  • Maryfcrawford

    Dynamic40j

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  • “If most Australians say “no,” the government won’t allow Parliament to consider lifting the nation’s ban on same-sex marriage.”

    And if most Australians say “yes,” same result — Turnbull’s government will find another excuse.

    Turnbull and his conservative backers really do want to unleash a hate campaign, because they are that kind of people — they really don’t care what kind of damage it does to gay and lesbian couples or their children. They’re hoping for a replay of what happened in the U.S. in 2004 and 2008, with all the anti-marriage referenda in the states.

    What may bite them in the ass, and this depends on turnout: Unlike the U.S. in 2008, an overwhelming majority of Australians support equal marriage. That’s why they’re going for a non-binding vote.

  • If in the 1960s, southern USA states were allowed to vote on segregation, today there would be Texas restaurants and washrooms with ‘whites only’ signs.

  • Rosiedmercer

    Tip35f

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