MAINE: Gov Vows To Raise Voting Age In Retaliation For New Law Raising Legal Age To Buy Cigarettes

The Portland Press-Herald reports:

Gov. Paul LePage said today that he would propose increasing the age to vote or join the military to 21 to be consistent with a new law hiking the legal age to buy tobacco. Unfortunately for LePage, two things would stand in his way: the U.S. Constitution and the U.S. military.

Six days after the Legislature overrode his veto, LePage was still venting on the radio and in a letter to lawmakers about what he views as their hypocrisy in raising the legal age to buy tobacco from 18 to 21 as a way to reduce Maine’s high youth smoking rates.

While health groups cheered the new law, LePage called lawmakers “hypocrites” and repeated his suggestion that perhaps 18-, 19- and 20-year-olds are also too young to cast ballots or choose to fight for the country.

  • Todd20036

    Silly Governor. The voting age is designated in US Constitution.

    The smoking age is not.

    Hey Maine, the moral of the story is, there is no such thing as a “moderate” republican.

    • j.martindale

      I didn’t realize that. The 26th Amendment.

      • Tatonka

        26th Amendment: The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.

    • Joseph Miceli

      Ninth Amendment.

    • Voting for FEDERAL offices in in the Constitution…not State offices.

      • Has it been tested in court about whether it only applies to voting for federal offices? The 26th Amendment doesn’t specifically mention federal, and the 14th Amendment applies Constitutional requirements to the states.

      • David J

        Hey, why don’t you read the ENTIRE SENTENCE before you close your already half-closed and poorly functioning brain…”shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State” Can you read aloud the last four words, just so that they sink in?

        • zhera

          Aggressive, much?

        • The_Wretched

          Until someone brings suit, it’s a bit uncertain. States run elections for federal offices and set laws for those elections (within certain limits).

      • Todd20036

        No dear. You cannot set the voting age for any public office to be higher than 18

  • Do Something Nice

    While I agree that 18 year olds should be able to buy tobacco, I also agree that the governor is a nutcase.

    • Todd20036

      If they’re too young to drink, they’re too young to smoke.
      And alcohol is less addictive and more beneficial than tobacco is.

      • Judas Peckerwood

        If they’re too young to drink and smoke, then they’re too young to be cannon fodder, buy guns, sign contracts, get married…

        • Rex

          Fuck?

          • Karl Dubhe

            By people who are adults, yah. Actually. Although there should be an age range that lets the little buggers not get in trouble for doing what comes ‘naturally.’

        • Christopher

          In my mind, if they’re old enough to serve, and potentially die, for their country, then they’re surely old enough to drink, smoke, and vote.

      • Do Something Nice

        Not too young to be drafted into the military to kill people. Let them smoke.

        I hate tobacco, but that’s my choice.

      • ColdCountry

        Uh…. Maybe your state doesn’t have a problem with drunk drivers, but Maine sure does.

  • Blake J Butler
  • Oh, Parker

    Maine, ceding no ground to Indiana, boldly chooses to elect and keep a governor that makes Pence look competent.

  • Judas Peckerwood

    Shit, I actually agree with this fuckwit for once.

    • Hue-Man

      It’s called voter suppression – young voters vote DEM.

  • Ninja0980

    Special shout out to Eliot Cutler, who split the vote among Democrats and Independents not once but twice and allowed this POS to win in 2010 and 2014 as as a result.

    • FAEN

      Why do they keep doing this?

      • Egotism.

      • The_Wretched

        The problem is first past the post voting.

      • justme

        There’s no run off rule between the highest vote getters in ME..
        Who ever gets the most votes in a 3 way or better wins the election.
        So if there are 4 running for the position..who ever gets 26% or greater would take the election

  • Boreal

    I have family in ME. This piece of shit is termed out as of next year. Even the majority of the republican lawmakers dislike him.

    • FAEN

      But they probably support whatever bill he wants. I hope I’m wrong about that.

      • Boreal

        No they have overridden his veto before. The house is controlled by dems and the senate by repigs.

        • FAEN

          Good to know. Thanks matey 😊.

      • ColdCountry

        You are. They vote against him more than with him, I think. There is a lot of bi-partisan work against him.

  • Joseph Miceli

    Sadly, I agree with that idiot.
    Look, either you are an adult…or you aren’t. If you are old enough to defend your country then you are old enough to vote and old enough to drink and buy cigarettes.
    A broken watch is right twice a day.

    • Boreal

      I agree with that too but still hate lepig. 🙂

      • Joseph Miceli

        agreed.

    • Should we also change the driving age and the age of consent to 18? These things are stepped for a reason- you’re not an adult all at once, you’re still developing until about 26 years old.

      • Joseph Miceli

        Well then, how can you make an informed choice to join the military at 18? The hypocrisy of our nation legislating young people’s rights when they have such a reduced or non-existent voice is appalling.

        • ColdCountry

          Parents “legislate” young people’s rights all the time.

          • Joseph Miceli

            Yes, because minors are not adults and can not legally make an informed choice.

          • ColdCountry

            They can’t “legally” make an informed choice? Not actually, just legally. There is no magic age at which one becomes able to make informed choices. Some five year olds can make certain “informed” choices, some 71 year olds can not.

      • zhera

        In Norway the driving age is 18. I have no problem with that, except that maybe it should be even higher. But adult is adult.

    • Mark Née Fuzz

      Perhaps, but it’s still a bullshit argument for raising the voting age.

      • Joseph Miceli

        Agreed. I do not want the voting age raised. I want cigarettes outlawed!

        • Boreal

          I hate that smell. So glad NY outlawed smoking in bars and restaurants a while back. I used to hate going out and coming home smelling like an ashtray.

          • Joseph Miceli

            The good old days. I used to undress in the hall, shove my clothing out the door and run to the bathroom to shower and wash my hair. Otherwise I’d smell it ALL night and couldn’t sleep. Now, alas, I do not even have the hair anymore! 🙂

          • zhera

            That was done in Norway quite a few years ago. Now many people go outside to smoke while at home, because even smokers appreciate a smokefree environment. I recently changed to vaping and I still go outside because the habit sits so deep inside me. Also, I rent.

          • I had a friend who vaped if you do it enough in a small apartment it can still be overwhelming.

          • Marydruss

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          • Nowhereman

            I’m getting sick of walking through the stench of cigaret smoke at business entryways where their employees hang out to smoke.

          • bkmn

            I complain to any business that allows that. There is no good reason employees should be smoking near the entrance to a business.

          • Nowhereman

            Especially grocery stores.

          • PeterC

            I grew up in a smoking household and ended up with quite severe asthma for 10 years. Not a fun time.

        • Nowhereman

          I agree. Nicotine should be a schedule one drug. There is absolutely nothing positive about it.

        • bkmn

          Especially after moving to a small town in western WA state. At least if they raised the cig tax a bit it would get some of the idiots to stop smoking. Of course then the reservations would get really busy selling cigs thru their drive-thru windows.

          • NIFP

            I respectfully disagree. That argument is just cover for a sin tax, because in most locales the tax increase is just “a bit” at a time, and most cigarette addicts (while not happy about it) find that they can manage to still afford to get their fix.

            If tax increases were truly meant to act as a smoking deterrent, then the price hike would be a very large amount all at once. I’m talking about at least double the price overnight, and even better triple, quadruple, or even quintuple it. No “phase it in”, either. If a pack was suddenly $30-$50, for instance, then I think you’d be likely to see more actual deterrence.

            Of course, I’m not an expert in addiction or economics, so I freely admit I may be completely wrong.

            I’d also like to see tobacco taxes go into special funds that can only be used for smoking cessation programs, education about the dangers of smoking, and perhaps even treatment for smokers that end up with COPD, cancer, etc. Maybe that would help off-set the drain on healthcare resources smoking currently poses? Or would that just be enabling?

        • Great. So then we can build even more private prisons for all the people who will be buying and selling tobacco illegally.

          • Joseph Miceli

            Jeez. Okay, how about a fine?

    • zhera

      Also: Sex. Aren’t the various state laws wildely different on legal age of sex?

      • Joseph Miceli

        I’m not sure what point you are trying to make but yes, state laws on age of consent differ.

        • zhera

          Isn’t the age of consent above 18 in some places? Seems so weird to me.

          • The_Wretched

            Computer suggests 18 is a max in the US

            https://www.bhwlawfirm.com/legal-age-consent-united-states-map/

            Most of the variability is on the lower end and exceptions such as ‘with parental consent’.

          • zhera

            I stand corrected. Thanks. 🙂

          • ZhyKitty

            Which is how I ended up married at 16.. I had parental consent, because I was pregnant.
            The father was 18, but couldn’t be prosecuted because:

            “The legal age of consent in South Carolina is 16. However, individuals as young as 14 years old are able to consent to have sex with a partner who is 18 years old or younger.”

          • Joseph Miceli

            A quick Google search shows that the lowest age of consent in the U.S. is 16 and that the highest is 18. The acceptable difference between ages is anywhere from 2 to 10. Utah, of course is the outlier at 10.

    • Lizard

      I don’t see the connection between the military and drinking alcohol. It’s apples and oranges to me.

      It’s all arbitrary. “Adult” is arbitrary. We, as a society, have imposed arbitrary age requirements for certain privileges and they’re not all the same. You could say driving is an “adult” privilege, so should we raise the licensing age to 18? Renting a car is an “adult” privilege, and I still can’t do that despite being able to vote, drink, and smoke.

      • Joseph Miceli

        Ah! So, if I get this right you are saying that it is a purely arbitrary choice by society that grades how “adult” you have to be to partake in a certain vice or privilege? With a few caveats I’d have to agree. But ask yourself this: How much more adult do you have to be to smoke than you have to be to enlist? I hardly think that is a fair scale to grade on.

        • Lizard

          Depends on if you’re talking about an individual or a bell curve.

          What I disagree with is this notion of “If you’re an adult, you’re an adult,” because it isn’t true. Individuals mature at varying rates. (Look at Trump. He’s 71 and has the maturity of a three-year-old.) The bell curve has extremes.

          You have two choices: Either you should be able to do all “adult” things at once (enlisting, drinking, smoking, driving, renting a car, etc.), because you’re now an “adult” at whatever age we’ve deemed appropriate–16, 18, 21, 65, whatever. Or you can take a gradient scale, where different things have different age restrictions, in which case the logic of “You should be able to do this thing because you can do this unrelated thing” no longer applies. Going anywhere in between is utterly arbitrary and dependent on what that individual person thinks logically compares. I don’t think enlisting in the military and drinking logically compare in any way (besides the age restriction). If you want to move all the ages to the same age, fine. At least it’s consistent. I’ve met very few people who feel that way.

          • Joseph Miceli

            Red Herring. You have not addressed the primary issue that I’ve been highlighting all along, military service. How is it that you are allowed to make that choice at 18 but cigarettes and alcohol require the maturity of a 21 year old?
            Sorry, I’m not buying it.
            The REAL reason that cigarettes and alcohol require you to be 21 is that legislators needed to come up with legislation that made them look good and showed them to be “tough deciders.” 18 to 21 year olds are outnumbered at the polls. It was a no risk way for politicians to go through the motions of legislating. When you combine that with the idiotic American conceit that alcohol is evil, you come up with stupid laws.

          • Lizard

            Not a red herring. I’m pointing out why your “question” is illogical in the first place and provided practically a bulleted list as to why.

            I have addressed your question: “How is it that you are allowed to make that choice at 18 but cigarettes and alcohol require the maturity of a 21-year-old?”
            The logic behind this question is “If you can do this, you can do that unrelated thing.” I think that’s bad logic. Here are your choices that are consistent. Pick one. (Or provide a third that I haven’t thought of. That would be fine.)
            1. You think all privileges should be granted at a single age. 16, 18, 21…whatever.
            2. You think we should have a gradient, at which point the logic in the question becomes worthless. If we have a gradient, you can’t compare enlisting in the military to smoking or drinking. They’re different privileges. Apples to oranges.

            If you have a way to reconcile those two viewpoints, “I don’t think one age should be the cutoff for everything but I think military enlistment and drinking/smoking are comparable because…” then I’d love to hear it. I don’t see it in any of your comments. Your entire argument rests on them being comparable. I don’t think they are.

          • Joseph Miceli

            No, actually your argument makes no sense. You keep framing the debate as “all or nothing” or ” a gradient” and refuse to admit the one thing smoking, military service, drinking and voting all have in common: the level of maturity they all require of that individual to make that informed choice.
            I say the debate here is that we have already MADE the decision of how mature and responsible an 18 year old is. Our society has spoken. We have decided that an 18 year old is capable of sacrificing himself for this nation. There is no argument or logic you can use to say that the comparatively trivial choices of whether to smoke or not to smoke, drink or not drink or even to vote or not to vote could require more maturity and responsibility that the choice to enlist and possibly die for your country.
            Summation: Since we have decided that 18 year olds at mature enough to die for us, we can not then decide they are NOT mature enough to engage in comparatively trivial vices. It is hypocrisy at its finest.
            If you are still going to go misframing my argument then be my guest. My logic is very clear and I think overwhelming.

          • Lizard

            Okay. I can go with that.

            Now let’s expand that reasoning. You say if an 18-year-old is mature enough to die for us, he should be able to drink (let’s just use drinking as an example because I don’t want to type out driving, smoking, etc.). What about an 18 year old who decides that maybe the military isn’t for him/her, but chose to go straight to college out of high school? Should that person be permitted the same privilege? Is that a “mature enough” decision? What about someone who chose community college, or going straight into the workforce? Aren’t those mature decisions? Should they be allowed to drink at 18, or wait until they’re 21?

            If no, we’ve simply shifted the arbitration from “Putting the drinking age at an arbitrary number (21)” to “This is a mature-enough decision to justify letting them drink.”

          • Joseph Miceli

            NO NO NO!!!!! If society has decided that 18 year old kids are capable of the level of maturity to decide whether or not they choose military service, this means ALL of them. The maturity to choose is what is the issue here, not the choice.

          • Lizard

            So…you think all privileges should be moved to one age, because if you’re mature enough for one, you’re mature enough for all.

          • Joseph Miceli

            That is logical fallacy. Argumentum ad absurdum.
            I did not write that. I wrote that if society judges you to be mature enough to enlist, then you are mature enough to partake in the comparatively trivial vices of drinking and smoking. To argue otherwise is patently ridiculous.

          • Lizard

            “To argue otherwise is patently ridiculous.”

            I still think they’re apples and oranges. Maybe it’s because I don’t think of drinking as trivial. But if that’s what you think, more power to you. Again, your opinion doesn’t depend on your ability to sway me.

          • Joseph Miceli

            Yep, because you refuse to concede that argument is over societies judgement of maturity and how out of wack it is, requiring MORE maturity for smoking than it does for enlisting.
            Well, I’m off to open a bottle of Chardonnay. Goodnight!

          • Lizard

            You’re misrepresenting me. I’ve never said any such thing. All I’ve done is point out that I think there’s a reason these ages are different. Your reasons, my reasons, their reasons…whatever. It’s all arbitrary! All I wanted was a reason stronger than “Because I say so” that they’re comparable privileges.

            I feel like a broken record.

          • Annerdr

            My dad lost half of his left lung because of his smoking. It’s not especially trivial.

          • Joseph Miceli

            Yes, you found me out! I meant to trivialize smoking because “if society judges you to be mature enough to enlist, then you are mature enough to partake in the comparatively trivial vices of drinking and smoking” means that I think it doesn’t matter if a four year old smokes, not that I think getting shot at is a lot less damaging than lighting a cigarette.
            Honestly. I just got done saying how I wanted smoking outlawed.
            Anyway, I am sorry about your Dad. I hope he’s doing well.

          • Joseph Miceli

            Oh…and I almost missed where you misrepresented me yet again as saying that I think drinking is trivial. Really, almost got that by me. Thank you so much for the insult.

          • ColdCountry

            I would argue that drinking is not a trivial vice, and that drinking age should not be considered on the same footing with smoking age. Historically and statistically, young men (in particular), driving, and alcohol do not mix well, and smoking does not kill nearly as many innocent bystanders as alcohol does. Alcohol impairs your ability to make mature decisions. Contrast to the military, where most decisions are made for you. I’m just saying that I think the argument is apples and oranges, I also don’t think this is the way to go about curbing smoking, and I DO think LePage is an ass.

          • Joseph Miceli

            “comparatively trivial ”
            I would truly appreciate it if people would stop taking my words out of context. If anyone would like to argue a concept I’m fine with that, but I am not going to argue against what someone else THINKS I wrote.

          • ColdCountry

            Fair enough, I guess I don’t think drinking is even “comparatively” trivial. I think most legislation regarding age limits comes from need, or at least a perceived need. My father got his Maine driver’s license at 12 or 14, I don’t remember exactly. He mailed his request with his $2 and got the license. No exam, no nothing. That is no longer practical, obviously, so new laws were made. When they allowed 18 year olds to drink, that didn’t work too well, either, so, new laws were made. IMO, laws should fit the need, not some set standard for everyone for every activity.

          • Joseph Miceli

            You are coming in 2/3’s of the way through a conversation about levels of maturity and perceived privilege. I’m not going through all of that again.

          • ColdCountry

            I read it all, no need to repeat. I just found your arguments to hold little water, but then, you didn’t ask, so….

          • Joseph Miceli

            Well thank you. Have a nice day.

    • Annerdr

      I don’t think all things should happen the magical day of a single birthday. Driving, for instance, at age 16 seems reasonable. Voting at 18 seems reasonable. We also have age limits on when a person can be elected to the US House, the Senate, and the Presidency. I could see lowering the drinking age and marrying it with pot – legal at age 18 or leave it at 21. I’m not concerned either way.

      It’s obvious that we gradually allow our children to mature into adults. Personally, I think 18 is too young to serve in the military, but that’s going to be hard to change. On the other hand, my understanding is that if you join the military, it becomes legal for you to drink at age 18 in many states. The thought apparently is that if you are willing to die for your country, we ought to be able to buy you a beer first. I could see the same exception being carved out for smoking.

      • Joseph Miceli

        There is no exception that I know of. I was 21 when the law changed and the guys I went out to the bars with, other soldiers, suddenly could not drink . It STILL makes me angry.

        • Annerdr

          I’m showing my age. In the early 1980s, if you were in the military, then you could drink. After Reagan passed the National Minimum Drinking Age Act in 1984, which took away 10% of federal highway funds from states who allowed any under 21s to drink, the states started changing their laws. Two reasons Reagan pushed that law was that studies came out showing that teenage brains react differently to alcohol than more mature brains and Mothers Against Drunk Driving were loud voters. Squeaky wheels.

    • Nowhereman

      A broken digital watch is never right. It is blank and powerless, just like LePage and his arguments.

      • Joseph Miceli

        How about you and I just agree we should slap him and move on.

        • Lizard

          Can I concur with that as well?

    • Robert Adams

      The whole idea of defending the country is recruiting those who have think they are invulnerable and will live forever, sure, but we want them clear-headed and healthy when we send them off to die. So no drinkin’ or smokin too soon.

    • narutomania

      Agreed. If I’m an adult, then I need to be an adult 100%. None of this 60/40 bullshit.

      A person can get trained on powerful guns and even learn how to drive and shoot a tank and kill people, but that same person can’t purchase a cigarette or buy a drink?

    • PeterC

      While in the Service you have older people running your life and building your confidence. Drinking is an instant situation of control or not. Age helps you to observe what occurs with over use and the brain has time to develop. Voting has no life destroying effects.

      • Joseph Miceli

        You seriously just wrote that voting has no life destroying effects. Okay.

    • As my husband says (his family is a hair away from being trailer trash) “if you’re old enough to go to the store, you’re old enough to get bred.” I know, totally irrelevant.

  • Rex

    Do these guys ever think about what they’re saying or do they just open their mouths and let words fall out?

    • stevenj

      No. Yes.

    • pj

      who don? he almost started a nuclear war yesterday with his big mouth.

  • Nate

    I agree if your not mature enough to smoke you aren’t mature enough to join the armed forces.

  • JT

    This asswipe gets elected because of fucking “independents” splitting the vote. He’s never won a majority.

  • JoeMyGod

    If you’re wondering about LePage’s dramatic weight loss, earlier this year he refused to say if his state insurance paid for the elective bariatric surgery he underwent while he was also calling for Medicare patients to work for their benefits.

    • Being charitable: He looks a lot better.

      • Boreal

        I’d rather look at his headstone.

        • Jonathan Smith

          I certainly wouldn’t cry if he woke up dead one day

          • Treant

            If you’re dead, do you wake up?

          • zhera

            Only one way to find out…

          • Ragnar Lothbrok

            jesus did

          • Treant

            Why does everybody forget Lazarus?

          • Ragnar Lothbrok

            I always thought that part was just made up

          • Jonathan Smith
          • Joseph Miceli

            OMG! That look’s like the crowd for the “Senior’s Brunch Special” at the “Court of Two Sisters!”

          • Robincho

            P. G. Wodehouse wrote of a British curative resort where things were so salubrious
            that corpses would often “rise from their biers and dance round the maypole.”

          • kareemachan

            Anybody who knows Wodehouse is okay to me. 😉

          • Robincho

            Why, thank you!

          • Treant

            I occasionally rise from my beers and dance around a “maypole.”

            Does that count?

          • Robincho

            Dude. It counts like a fuckin’ abacus… 😉

        • TuuxKabin

          oxo.

    • Hue-Man

      Most MEDICARE patients did work for their benefits!

  • nipper

    Isnt the military age set by federal law?

  • This is what happens when:
    – Dems split their votes
    – GOP morons who don’t give a fuck about our nation’s laws are allowed to hold elected office w/out consequences

    • Fortunately, Maine now has ranked choice voting. As long as people understand how it works and rank their second choice properly….

  • dcurlee

    Idiot you can’t do that. You know what at 18 if you can serve your country so you can vote. We have serious issues and this is what you think is needed. Wow

  • Jonathan Smith
  • Lazycrockett
  • Mark Née Fuzz

    Because if you’re old enough to vote you’re old enough for cancer. I am actually in favor of increasing the smoking age to, say, 75 or so.

    • David J

      Sounds about right. Issues of informed voting, wise alcohol consumption, and cigarette use are not all the same simply because they once had the age of 18 associated with them. Smoking at 75 sounds good, or at 100, even better. Who needs to pay those Medicare bills for smokers over 100?

  • Karl Dubhe

    To be honest, I’ve long thought that the voting age should be lowered. 16 for sure, perhaps younger if the child can demonstrate that they have the ability to reason. 🙂

    • kareemachan

      That’s the problem. How do you “demonstrate they have the ability to reason”? You can change a teen’s mind with a candy bar, FFS.

      • Karl Dubhe

        Do they understand the concept of what happens if they fuck up with their driving lessons? Or when they’re introduced to firearms?

        I learned to drive at 14. Shoot at 18. Didn’t get to vote until I was 20, due to ‘reasons’. 🙂 (no elections were called between the time I turned 18-20)

  • Another Republican clueless about the Constitution. What a shock.

    It’s one thing to make an argument about “if you’re old enough to serve in the military or vote….” It’s another thing to think your state can change those two.

    (FYI, the 26th Amendment lowering the voting age to 18 passed during the Vietnam War precisely because of that “if you’re old enough to serve” argument.)

  • coram nobis

    1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.

    2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
    — U.S. Const., 26th Am. (1971)

    • justme

      unless your a 1960’s southern state and have a voter literacy test

  • TexasBoy

    Pffft…Constitution….who cares…I’m a Republican.

  • Ragnar Lothbrok

    Always bugged me….16 to marry and drive ,14 to consent,18 to vote, 21 to drink. 8 to smoke ( In Kentucky )

    Pick a number already and everything becomes legal on that birthdate.

  • Scoot

    LePage is a disgusting piece of crap, and I can’t believe I’m saying this, but he’s right here. We have too many laws that disagree on what an adult is. Either 18 is old enough and responsible enough to make decisions—vote, sign contracts, buy liquor and tobacco, join the military—or it’s not. So if 18 is old enough to carry a gun and shoot people in the name of our country, then surely 18 is old enough to smoke a cigarette or have a beer.

    • Lizard

      “…then surely 18 is old enough to smoke a cigarette or have a beer.”

      This has a veneer of logic (“If you can do this you should be able to do that”), but if you examine it any deeper, it doesn’t have much following logic. Why? Why should fighting for your country have anything whatsoever to do with drinking? Hell, shouldn’t we logically keep alcohol away from young people with weapons? Those two things have absolutely nothing to do with each other, except we’ve decided as a society to stick age requirements on them (whatever you think those requirements should be).

      If we’re going to change the voting/smoking/drinking age, I’m going to need better logic than “You should be able to do this thing because at that age you can already do that unrelated thing.” We allow people to get driver’s licenses at 16, so should the voting, smoking, and drinking age be 16? Or should the driving age be 18 or 21?

      • kareemachan

        Thank you for putting this more coherently than I ever could.

      • Scoot

        I think, perhaps, you have the “veneer of logic” in trying to say nothing has any relation to anything else in the universe. These age restrictions are grouped under the pretense of young people not being old enough to thoughtfully make certain decisions—or are we just creating arbitrary age firewalls, and you’re in favor of that? Just because? What’s the logic in believing that someone is mature enough at 18 to decide their entire life path and join the military but not mature enough to decide if smoking a cigarette is OK?

        • Lizard

          That’s not my point at all. My point is the logical inconsistency being made in the above comment. The common theme is “Either you’re an adult, or you’re not.” I’m just pointing out the two options available in this argument that are logically consistent.
          1. When you’re an adult, you’re an adult. All restrictions should be lifted at a single age, whatever you think that should be–driving, enlisting, smoking, drinking, renting a car, signing a contract, etc.
          2. We have a gradient scale of “adulthood.” Here, the logic of “You should be able to do this because you can already do that” no longer applies.
          When I have this discussion, most people claim to agree with (1), yet balk at, for example, the driving restriction be raised to 18, or the enlistment age be lifted to 21. Yet they continue to use the logic of (2), at which it becomes totally arbitrary which privilege is comparable to which.
          I don’t think enlisting and drinking are comparable. At all.

          • Scoot

            “Oh, I wasn’t actually refuting anything specific you said. I want to pedantically zero-in on a turn of phrase that you didn’t use and not any specific point, and I had to insult someone to start a fight on the internet so I can talk about how smart I think I am.”

            OK, got it.

            What I said was, “Either 18 is old enough and responsible enough to make decisions—vote, sign contracts, buy liquor and tobacco, join the military—or it’s not.” But you keep arguing the wind, man.

          • Lizard

            No. I’m pointing out why your logic isn’t sound. I’m pointing out why the entire argument is resting on a single baseless assumption. That’s how logic works.

            Your opinion is a mile wide and an inch deep. But by all means, keep projecting onto me.

            I never insulted you. I disagreed with you. I get that this is the internet, but there’s still a difference there.

          • Scoot

            Yes, such respectful disagreement. Do you also yell at people from your car window that they’re fat and ugly and then congratulate yourself for politely informing them about proper health and hygiene?

            But, again, you’re arguing against some other phantom point that I’m not making and then telling me I have a “veneer of logic” and that my opinion “is a mile wide and an inch deep” (which are not insults, apparently). It looks like you’re waging this same ridiculousness on a handful of other comment threads, so I don’t really understand what you’re doing. I guess I am an idiot for engaging with whatever this is.

            My point, for the fourth time, is that the government decides when people are old enough, legally, to make decisions. Even if two things are not related—for example, military service and buying tobacco—why is someone who is 18 qualified to make one decision and not the other? What makes an 18yo qualified to vote and join the military but not drink beer or smoke? It feels arbitrary. “Just because” is not an adequate reason.

          • Lizard

            “Veneer of logic” is not an insult; it’s a statement that I don’t think your argument makes sense beneath the surface. I specifically and carefully attacked your argument (which many others here agree with), not you personally, considering I know nothing whatsoever about you.

            Considering you insulted me specifically in the entire quote in your third comment with a nasty personal attack…yeah. “A mile wide and an inch deep” was an insult, because you attacked me and my writing style, not my actual argument. I’ll admit that one as well as defend it. I had no interest in starting a fight. I like debating this kind of thing, not throwing shit over it. I was pointing out why I thought an argument about a political topic had a logical flaw.

            And I’m pretty sure I’m agreeing with you anyway. That’s been my whole point. “Why is someone who is 18 qualified to make one decision and not the other?” I just expand that to include all decisions, not specific ones that I think are unrelated.

  • Rex

    Some people shouldn’t be allowed to vote at any age.

  • Treant

    Isn’t voting age a Constitutional Amendment? Good luck with that, LePage.

  • Sam_Handwich
    • The_Wretched

      How did it get that far into our airspace? Did we force it to land? It must be doing signals intelligence or sending Donny orders.

    • Treant

      Was it carrying a banner behind it that read, “Great Job Trump! Russia Loves You But Sanctions Bad!”

    • ColdCountry

      That’s a military plane? Where did it come from? They aren’t that long range, are they? How did they know it’s unarmed? How about some verification?

  • netxtown

    Kimmie is twirling the fuse on his nukes – and these dumb fucks are worried about 20 year-olds having a cigarette??? WTF? Is this some religious thingy to keep the kids ‘virgin’ til 21, or something?

    Looks to me the legislature is playing their heavy hand – sticking their nose way too far into personal space – and they will end up driving away the very group they sought to save. Hell, Maine ain’t so big that it takes more than a 1/2 tank to get out.

    • Boreal

      Smoking costs the states big money in healthcare over time and we all pay for that.

      • Treant

        That argument can be used on every “vice” on the planet; it’s not advisable to single one out. Eventually you get drink sizes limited because somebody decides how many grams of sugar you can have. Then we weigh you before allowing you into a hospital. Too fat? Too bad.

        • Boreal

          True but most long term hardcore smokers start when they are young. If you can delay their start there will most likely be fewer smokers

          • Treant

            Love you, but citation required. You’re drawing an unwarranted conclusion to back up an action you support.

          • Boreal

            Here in NY age is 21 but there is an exception if you are in military service

            Citation

            https://www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0127.pdf

          • Treant

            It actually proves my point. Said kids are underage vis a vis the smoking age, but manage to do it. Therefore, smoking ages, by definition, do absolutely nothing for a significant slice of youth.

            I’m also going to throw this document out for conflating “nicotine” with “smoking,” which exposes the user to well over 5,000 chemicals. Nicotine, in and of itself, isn’t terribly addictive without combination with an MAOI.

            Which raises another point in that I doubt very much whether they’ve separated chewed tobacco, snus, vaping, and smoking into separate and sensibly managed categories.

            Argument #3/4 (depending on how you count) here is, of course, that “tar” is heavily present in pot smoke, but so many anti-smoking advocates around here simply love that shit to death.

            New York is wide open to get sued for discrimination against non-military personnel, but that’s another story.

          • Boreal

            NY hasn’t been sued yet. Nicotine, a highly effective poison is not the only thing in cigarettes unfortunately. The tobacco companies add a host of other toxins. Vaping has its own set of problems and i have no problem with someone chewing tobacco as long as i don’t have to clean up their chaw.
            That being said having some deterrent to keep underage kids from smoking is desirable and I am seeing fewer kids smoking than I did when i was a kid.

          • Treant

            “Nicotine, a highly effective poison”

            “Water, which is also in dog crap, is now used in cooking.”

            Everything is a toxin, and nicotine is administered appropriately to its toxicity. But most notably, caffeine and water are toxic.

            “Vaping has its own set of problems”

            Citation required. Keep in mind that I make my own liquid, so I’m exposed to a slight bit of nicotine, propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, and menthol. Use of the word “antifreeze” will cause the entire argument to be discarded.

          • Boreal

            Wow , you really want to argue about this. Go for it. Since you’ve already dismissed my other citation, this will be my last one.

            https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/concerns-explode-over-new-health-risks-vaping

          • Treant

            It’s more that I’m pressing you in a very specific direction…which is apparently not working.

            I don’t care about that citation; it’s not a scientific study and the debunking is already out there.

            What I usually simply ask is what scientific study is this based on and what are any identified problems with it? Then, once rebuffed on that, I just ask for a list of everything the person did, consumed, or used that day so I can identify what I object to them doing and what really needs to be banned for what reason.

            A small percentage note that, just maybe, legislating against something somebody else does might have a kickback later when they don’t bother to defend your particular chosen vice…and some even note that most nanny state laws simply aren’t made using good scientific knowledge, but whatever crap can be paid for by a shill (and there are tons out there on any conceivable side of the fence).

            But you’re right, this conversation should end now.

          • Reality.Bites

            Well we DO know the overwhelming majority of people who smoke started in their teens or early twenties. Same with sex.

            But we do know that when people are unable to have sex in their teens they still take it up later just as enthusiastically.

          • Treant

            I also find it very offensive that people never think of the self-medication aspect, particularly when it was the best of a bunch of really bad options. 🙂 In my case, I developed a nice caffeine addiction due to migraine headaches.

            Turns out, I developed a nice nicotine addiction due to clinical depression. But in 1986… Well, nowadays I just drop ass-tons of Effexor.

        • netxtown

          We should get all the legislatures to declare “21” on just about every fast-food joint, and the soda makers, candy makers, – hell, let’s take down the ‘food’ at the local carnivals and state fairs…. No Happy Meal until you’re 21!!

          ….meanwhile, they will all vote to reduce the emission requirements of industry…..

          • Treant

            Why 21? There are plenty of obese twenty-somethings. If we monitor every bite that goes into the mouths of every person until they’re–say–60, we wouldn’t have to pay for their Type II diabetes. It won’t develop until after they’re dead.

            Honestly. Nanny states wouldn’t bother me so much if they actually attacked the big issues. But they always go after the same fringe issues over and over again, and said issues are the ones that really don’t matter so much.

          • kareemachan

            So what do you consider a BIG issue? Something corporations don’t have a say in?

          • kareemachan

            [crickets]

          • Treant

            The question makes no sense, but thanks so much for playing.

      • netxtown

        Actually that is a bit of a myth. Lung cancer is one of cheapest death sentences. It’s usually undetected until its too late, and it moves fast. Sometimes as quick as 4-6 months.

        • Boreal

          People get other diseases than lung cancer. COPD, emphysema and others.

          • netxtown

            True that. And I know of some who have never smoked a day in their life..and yet COPD. That’s the one’s I truly feel sorry for.

          • Boreal

            My contractor, same age as me ,started smoking at 13. He had to retire from all work this year due to COPD from smoking and is now on disability. I know others as well.

          • netxtown

            I remember having a chat with my doc about all of it. Of course he was giving me ‘the lecture’…and I appreciate his concern. But, as i told him, it would be more than disingenuous of me to act or look surprised if/when he tells me he sees lung cancer in the xrays.

            I don’t know. I kind of see all of this sorta like the brain damage thing with football players. They are all quite aware that the constant slamming of their heads will most probably cause major problems later on…yet, there they are out on the field… Can you imagine the rage across the nation if ‘kids’ couldn’t play football until they are 21!!??!! I mean – what are those mommies and daddies who voted on the bond for that 60 million dollar high school football stadium to do!??!

          • Reality.Bites

            Not to mention the impact on cardiac health

        • kareemachan

          So let ignorants get it?

          That’s christian of you.

          • netxtown

            Wasn’t christian of me. I’m full on atheist. But I’ll bet it was a room full of ‘christians’ who voted in the 21 law….

          • kareemachan

            Okay, that’s humanist of you.

            Not.

        • netxtown

          personal note: I smoke. In fact, I just rolled me one, lit it, and its propped between my fingers right now.

          I quit commercial cigs when they did the stupid fucking FSC ‘carpet glue’ banding to make the cigarette extinguish if not actively smoked.

          That said, I roll my own. 100% organic American Spirit. The funny thing is the old ‘smoker’s cough’ stopped. I smoke may be 4 or 5 a day cuz the tobacco hasn’t been washed and processed and then chemicalized. Sure it will probably kill me some day. It is MY choice.

          • sfbob

            If I could smoke four or five cigarettes a day I might still be a smoker. For me the choice was between two to three packs a day or none at all. I chose the latter because I value my life.

        • Rillion

          I just had a friend pass away from lung cancer, ten years after it was detected. Treatments have progressed in recent years.

      • zhera

        Tax cigarettes into the ground. It’s what’s done elsewhere.

        • Boreal

          It’s already done in many states. Here a carton of cigarettes is around $50.

          • zhera

            I’m like “Ooh, that’s cheap!”

            /Norway

    • Rillion

      Actually the reason for these laws isn’t to stop 20 y/o’s from smoking, it is because those under 18 are likely to know 18-20 y/o’s that will buy them cigarettes. By raising the legal age to buy cigarettes, it makes it harder for minors to get cigarettes.

  • The_Wretched

    I’m sympathetic to the “if you’re an ‘adult’, then..” arguments but each of the various ‘adult’ type things has different factors which influence why it’s a good or bad idea to have an arbitrary cut off age. The diversity of cut-off ages and varying per jurisdicitons is a big tip off that a ‘one-size fits all’ “adult” isn’t the best choice.

    • Joseph Miceli

      Again, I would point out that if that were the case then the commitment a young person at 18 makes to join the military should require a higher age than all the rest! The hypocrisy of legislating vices for people who defend our country …well…it is deafening!

      • The_Wretched

        18 year olds are useful soldiers. they tend to bit fit and not think too much.

        • kareemachan

          And that’s no argument against it.

          Try again, trollette.

          • Treant

            Agreed. Usefulness does not come into play; we’re discussing the ability to take responsibility.

          • Xuuths

            Well, they are legal adults, can make all legal contracts, can vote, are required to file taxes, are put in different detentions from minors, can be arrested/tried/convicted of various crimes against minors, are no longer minors… I could go on. Clearly the law views them on every level as equal adults to every other adult — except in a few cases, in some jurisdictions, and with notable exceptions which make no sense.

          • Treant

            Yep. I totally agree with you, 100%.

            I also tend to be extremely open-minded on the “what you consume” issue, as long as it’s not an immediate toxin or taken to some ridiculous extreme that some poster will throw at me while I roll my eyes. It’s not my job or my place to tell you that You Can’t Do That, particularly while I hypocritically drink a Coke.

          • Silver Badger

            Oh dear. Where to the old Republicans fit in?

          • Lizard

            The_Wretched isn’t a troll.

          • kareemachan

            It argues like one.

          • Reality.Bites

            No it’s worse. Bernie Bro scum

        • Silver Badger

          They are more malleable too. Much easier to turn them into killing machines.

      • Treant

        Agreed. Risking your life directly is, by definition, the biggest commitment you can make. All else can be changed later…death can’t.

        So obviously, you shouldn’t be able to join the military until at least 21 since we don’t let you have a beer until then.

      • Lizard

        “The hypocrisy of legislating vices for people who defend our country …well…it is deafening!”

        It’s only hypocritical if the vices for the military are any different from anyone else, but they’re not. I, a non-military person, can legally drink at 21. The guy I knew in high school who enlisted in the Army can legally drink at 21. It’s the same.

        • Joseph Miceli

          Again with the red herrings! Address the issue: Does a decision to smoke cigarettes require the same gravitas and maturity that a commitment to the military takes? If not, then why is enlistment allowed at 18 but cigarettes must wait till 21?
          You keep trying to drown the issue out with nihilist relativity. Sorry, Sir. I had Jesuits training me back when that meant something.

          • Lizard

            You’re accusing me of red herrings when I have stated categorically in multiple comments why I think my logic is sound.

            “Why is enlistment allowed at 18 but cigarettes must wait until 21?”
            Because they’re incomparable privileges. One has nothing to do with the other.

            “You keep trying to drown the issue out with nihilist relativity.”
            Pointing out the logical flaws in your argument is not “drowning the issue out.” Let me be as plain as I can possibly be.

            THESE. THINGS. ARE. NOT. COMPARABLE.

            You want to say all privileges should be given at a single age? Fine. Otherwise, it’s inconsistent unless you can give me a good reason that these situations are comparable besides “Because I think they are.”

            Also, as a side note, I’m female.

          • zhera

            Butting in:

            I’d say they are comparable in the way that a person is supposed to be mature enough to make an informed decision. Whether the decision is to smoke, which is bad for your health (and others’) or enlist, which can be hazardous for your life (and others’), I don’t really see a difference.

          • Joseph Miceli

            Yes, that’s what I just wrote below. Someone isn’t seeing the forest for the trees. Seriously, I’ve never seen a better use for that metaphor than this conversation.

          • Lizard

            You’re seeing the forest, and the trees, but not the dirt from which it all grows. See below. I think your statement has only shifted the “arbitrary” part of the equation.

          • Joseph Miceli

            All laws governing societal norms are arbitrary. I will concede that much.

          • Lizard

            I swear I’m not trying to make some “Nothing is relative to anything” argument. I’m arguing if you want to make a “You can do this, so you should be able to do this” argument, I need to see why those things are comparable.

          • Joseph Miceli

            And I keep telling you over and over that if you have the requisite level of maturity to commit to the military, then you have the level of maturity necessary to choose to drink or smoke. You keep not addressing that the reason they are being compared is that our society has decided they are adult privileges! They all require maturity.

          • Lizard

            But that’s what I’ve been saying from the beginning! You think all privileges which require a level of maturity should be granted at the same age. That’s a consistent statement. What I don’t agree with is something like, “I think military service and drinking/smoking should be the same age because of maturity levels, but driving should be lower, because reasons.” That’s the kind of thing that doesn’t make any sense to me because it’s just as arbitrary as what we have now.

            I’ve been saying this from basically my first comment.

          • Joseph Miceli

            I didn’t say that. I never wrote that. I never once said ALL privileges should be grated at once. I’ve written consistently that since society has decided that you can make the ultimate sacrifice at 18, the rest of the privileges are petty by comparison and that there is no good argument not to allow them to the 18 year old.
            We get to the same place, but you keep saying something about how privileges are unrelated and that you can’t compare them. Yes, you can.

          • Lizard

            “I’ve written consistently that since society has decided that you can make the ultimate sacrifice at 18, the rest of the privileges are petty by comparison and that there is no good argument not to allow them to the 18 year old.”

            How is that not the same thing as “All privileges should be granted at once because if you’re mature enough for one, you’re mature enough for all”?

          • Joseph Miceli

            I’ll tell you, right after you admit the hypocrisy of denying it.

          • Joseph Miceli

            YES. THEY. ARE.
            I’ve made my argument elsewhere. I’ll just state here that they are comparable because I said so. 🙂

          • Lizard

            “I’ll just state here that they are comparable because I said so.”

            Okay. That’s not good enough for me.

          • Joseph Miceli

            That was just to get your goat.
            It might be somewhere in the trees, but then you’d have to walk in the woods and there may be naturally occurring forests.
            The Nuns REALLY hated me in religion class.

          • Lizard

            “That was just to get your goat.”

            Gee, thanks.

            But I stand by what I said. If you think that, fine. Your opinion shouldn’t depend on persuading me. I just thought that’s what all your arguments were trying to do–persuade other people of your stance.

          • zhera

            Just to butt in some more: There are good arguments for a gradient legal age. There’s even an argument for girls being allowed to drive before boys. It’s science. But as a society we need to have simple and understandable rules for all, otherwise the rules will be ignored.
            My personal opinion on the various legal ages would never be accepted by most of society and I accept that.

          • Reality.Bites

            No one cares, Chuckles

        • sfbob

          The important comparisons here are voting and smoking. Voting is a constitutionally protected right. Voting age is established in the 26th Amendment, ratified in 1971. State’s cannot override it.

          While the constitution indirectly protects many of the choices people make as individuals, smoking cigarettes is NOT itself a constitutionally protected right. For that matter I believe there is also a constitutionally protected right to serve in the military, which means that that right cannot be limited without good cause.

          The smoking age can be regulated for any number of reasons, including the state’s interest in protecting public health, as can other aspects of smoking such as allowing smoking ads to appear on television or not and limiting the ways cigarettes can be sold.

          It appears that the younger a person is when they begin smoking the more thoroughly addicted to nicotine they become and thus the harder it is for them to quit. That’s a consideration. Also is the consideration that smoking affects not only the smoker but anyone who is exposed to the second-hand smoke the smoker creates. While any of these considerations may not impact directly on the age at which people should be allowed to purchase cigarettes legally the state essentially has carte blanche in this instance because no constitutionally protected right is infringed upon.

      • andrew

        A person can join the military at age 17 with parents consent. I did.

        • Joseph Miceli

          Thank you for your service.
          And …..what has that got to do with what I wrote?

          • andrew

            You mentioned how young 18 is to make such a serious decision. I was just adding a little info that some make that serious decision even younger

    • kareemachan

      Well, aren’t you an uncute lil’ trollette. Honestly, your “argument” is pathetic.

  • Dom Saunders

    Could he be any more transparent? The only reason I can think of for him to spontaneously suggest raising the voting age is because knows damn well younger people aren’t as likely to vote right wing compared to older people. He doesn’t really care that the cigarette-purchasing age limit is being increased. He just cares about keeping his seat.

    • Boreal

      He can’t run again but wants to run for the US senate.

    • Tom Ato

      We have a winner, no more calls.

    • ColdCountry

      1. He’s term limited.
      2. He’s just pissed because they over-rode his veto.
      3. He’s a childish, vindictive, moron.

      • Silver Badger

        He’s Republican. What did you expect?

        • ColdCountry

          So is Susan Collins and our much-missed Olympia Snowe. Also, the legislature has, on more than one occasion, voted unanimously against him.

          • Silver Badger

            Some one has to perpetuate the stereotype.

  • kareemachan

    Maine: can you PLEASE get your ass in gear and vote out this moran? I don’t want to read about him any more.

    Thnx.

  • david fairfield

    Apples and oranges. Idiot.

    • Spongebob CrankyPants

      Is it though? I don’t like this clown, but he does make a point. If you are old enough to decide that you want to die for your country, you are old make your own health decisions. Never understood the government’s position that they care about your health to such a degree that they feel the need to regulate certain activities like smoking and drinking. If you are homeless, hungry and cold they certainly don’t care, but gawd forbid you smoke a cigatette.

      • david fairfield

        Yes. Agreed. But, the age to drink, gamble, smoke, get married vary from state to state. There’s no directive from the government so states have always set their own rules. Until there is a mandate I don’t see why states should suddenly stop doing what they’ve been doing all along. I may not agree with it, but this is not an isolated incident and it’s getting a lot of air time for some unknown reason. However, I disagree with this Bozo that because he disagrees, he should apply the same restrictions to something completely unrelated.

  • Natty Enquirer

    Appeasing the prohibitionists is always a political game.

  • Joel.My.Gosh.
    • Old Top Kick

      Need that in Oklahoma and Kansas.

  • Jean-Marc in Canada

    Man, the GOP are really going all out to solidify their permanence as the ruling party. I wonder, will anyone bother to notice this a do something next year? Oh wait, of course they won’t, because whatever candidate is put against a republican incumbent will no doubt be deemed ideologically impure. Translation: 2018 will probably be 2016 part deux and the GOP will then be able to pull shit ass stunts like this.

    Yeah, I’m in a mood.

    • Treant

      How are you guys doing? Is the Husbotter home yet?

      • Jean-Marc in Canada

        No, he’ll be in hospital until at least Tuesday. They’re keeping him here for observation, it’s SOP with cardiac cases. The hospital has been great, feeding both of us and allowing to be with him. He’s little punchy when he wakes up and then down he goes. While it was a mild heart attack and he is younger than me, it still took a lot out of him. Your kindness is appreciated and I have told him how our friends here have been asking and keeping good thoughts.

        • Treant

          Wow, Canadian hospitals are great. I had a…cardiac incident…that turned out to be an atrial fibrillation. They got me stabilized and tossed me out the door.

          My best to both of you!

          • Silver Badger

            Yep. They are definitely not in Kansas, Toto.

    • Silver Badger

      You sound tired and worried. Rest when you can.

      • Jean-Marc in Canada

        I’m incredibly tired, even after a nap. My boo is resting and I’m basically just surfing the web to keep distracted. Funny/not Funny moment happened about an hour ago. A friend forwarded a YouTube link to The Day After and Threads…both prescient films given the current situation. So tired. Thank you.

        • Treant

          Try “Aftermath.” I think this is the whole thing, and I’m guessing it’s legal. Maybe. Not sure.

          At least the lead guy’s hot. For a while, anyway.

          https://youtu.be/kdySRhTIcQc

          • Jean-Marc in Canada

            Testament is another one that chills to the bone.

          • Treant

            I’m kind of hard-pressed to think of a cheery, lighthearted look at the Apocalypse. Even under its humor, Dr. Strangelove is deadly serious in its intent.

            “When the Wind Blows” is a short cartoon movie that will have you in tears by the end of it.

          • Silver Badger

            That one gave me nightmares. I refuse to keep large brown paper bags for that very reason.

          • Treant

            If you’re a fan of short horror movies, that’s good advice at any time for other reasons.

          • Silver Badger

            Nope, I’ll just take a Scarlet O’hera on that one. “I’ll think about it tomorrow. I can bear it tomorrow.: (sorry for the spelling errors.) I can’t do a damn thing about it so I pay it no mind. I live close enough to DIA that I probably won’t notice a nuclear strike.

          • Treant

            Different airport, but ditto. Ours can and has handled Air Force One and Two, so we’re definitely a strategic military target. Plus it does get used for the occasional military maneuver, so… And I’m 3.2 miles away. I can watch commercial 747’s drop landing gear at 800 feet as they pass my house (it’s surprisingly quiet).

          • Silver Badger

            We’re close to Buckley Air Force Base too. Lots of military activity 27/7.

          • Treant

            Sometimes it’s nice to be a strategic target. The math says I might–might–survive the initial explosion, but a firestorm with 250+ MPH winds will follow along 5 to 15 seconds behind that. I’ll barely have time to think, “That wind is going to seriously damage the dahlia.”

          • Robincho

            But your daisies will be fine, since we’ll be pushin’ ’em up…

  • Dagoril

    Well this is never, ever going to happen.

  • Uncle Mark

    So how much do you suppose Big Tobacco is paying him? I only ask, because as governor, I’m sure he’s aware of the state costs for lung cancer and other related illnesses

    • canoebum

      I’m just as sure he couldn’t give shit. Another petty dictator. Maine and the world will be much better off when he departs the scene.

    • leastyebejudged

      Nothing. There’s no link whatsoever. Maine isn’t even a decent climate to grow tobacco in.

      Simply opposing everything the legislature proposes is how he got elected, he’s just doing what he’s always done.

      • Silver Badger

        Don’t count on that. The tobacco lobbies are known for throwing money at legislation they don’t like.

  • Nowhereman

    I thought he was a big drug warrior. Nicotine and Alcohol are two of the most insidious drugs out there.

    • jmax

      Tobacco and alcohol also have huge lobbying organizations that give cash to politicians. I wonder if that has anything to do with his stance. /s

  • We need a constitutional amendment that says that whenever a public official shows blatant ignorance of the constitution, they are automatically fired. LePage can’t change the voting age in Maine. We have a constitutional amendment that changed it from 21 to 18 AND HE WAS ALIVE WHEN THAT WAS FUCKING RATIFIED!!!!!! Motherfucker!

    • Silver Badger

      If memory serves, the voting age change was a result of the Vietnam years. “If they are old enough to be drafted and die for their country, they should be able to vote.” An awful number of 18 year old boys did die in Vietnam. It seemed fair at the time.

  • leastyebejudged

    Legal age to buy alcohol in Maine is what, 21 ?

    The Maine legislature is really at fault here, LePage handed them a gift and they managed to fuck it all up. Again.

    Simply agree with him and put together legislation making drinking at 18 legal, after all, you can vote and die for your country, you should be able to drink.

  • Hank
  • The constitution says go fuck your own bitch ass.

  • JCF
  • gothambear

    Please Maine get some sense and vote that idiot out – bring in the gay candidate…