Al Franken: Pence As President Could Be Even Worse

The International Business Times reports:

If Donald Trump were impeached, as some Democrats would like, Mike Pence “would be worse” for domestic policy than the current president, U.S. Sen. Al Franken told International Business Times. But the vice president would be less dangerous on foreign policy, said Franken.

“Pence ran the transition and some of the very worst nominees, I felt — [EPA chief Scott] Pruitt, [Education Secretary Betsy] DeVos, [HHS Secretary Tom] Price, [Budget director Mick] Mulvaney — were Pence selections, clearly, I think,” Franken told IBT. “He’s ideological, I consider him a zealot, and I think that in terms of a lot of domestic policy certainly would be worse than Trump.”

  • Xiao Ai: The Social Gadfly

    I’m still willing to plow through that hell of ousting him too, for an impeachment and an arrest of the Orange One.

  • bambinoitaliano

    Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. One deplorable at a time. Snip the red wire on the time bomb first and deal with the bomber next.

  • Gustav2

    Later we can fix domestic policies faster than screwed up foreign policies.

    • Gerry Fisher

      And I think that some painful domestic policies might “out” Pence rather quickly as the unqualified politician that he is. (The reports out of Indiana about his performance as governor were *scathing*. He wouldn’t have been re-elected there.)

  • Ninja0980

    He would be but IMO, he is knee deep in the much as Trump is otherwise Republicans would have tossed Trump aside long ago.

  • Do Something Nice

    So what? We ignore Trump? I hate that people say stuff like this. If Pence is as bad or worse than Trump, we’ll deal with it.

    Get Trump out of office NOW.

    • Ragnar Lothbrok

      No kidding. We get rid of pres fuckhead, we also get rid of all those other trumps and Nazi-Bannon for sure.

    • Judas Peckerwood

      Franken has never suggested that we ignore Trump or not pursue impeachment. He’s just being thoughtful and intelligent, pointing out the possible ramifications because we can’t be caught flatfooted if Trump is impeached/quits/whatever.

      Too many people on our side think that simply getting rid of Trump will cures what ails the US, when in fact it might be just the beginning of even bigger problems.

      • thatotherjean

        Can we run Al Franken for President in 2020? Please?

        • Lizard

          I’d vote for him.

      • Lizard

        And the biggest danger of all: Pence is reelectable!

        I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again…the best of all (horrible, evil) options is for Trump to remain in office but politically incapacitated by a turnover in Congress in 2018.* With his numbers, there’s no way he’ll be reelected in 2020. Pence might be.

        *This brings me no joy. I fucking despise Trump, but I’d like this country to last longer than a few more years.

  • Jonathan Smith
  • That’s not a valid reason, really, not to impeach Trump. It just means there needs to be more than one impeachment.

  • StraightGrandmother

    Well he did just lawyer up so maybe he has blood on his hands too, which would make Speaker Ryan our 47th President. Well the more logical scenario exists that Trump is out, Pense is in, then Pense selects a new VP then Pense is out, so not necessarily Paul Ryan do to succession. But wouldn’t it be wild if Pense selected Paul Ryan as VP?

    • OdieDenCO

      is this going on a national tour? I want to kick trump rump

    • That_Looks_Delicious

      This is going to make Fox News say that parade caused the baseball game shooting. Or something foxnewsy.

    • prixator

      The butt and the hair are big enough, but the hands are too large.

      I like the middle finger, though.

  • james1200

    Of course Pence is far worse, unless you’re the type of person that’s dying for religious police patrolling our major city streets. If that’s your thing, then Pence is your guy.

    (Everybody please watch The Handmaid’s Tale.)

    • djcoastermark

      Many an upvote from this lil goat. Can’t wait for season 2

    • AJA

      Under His Eye.

      • djcoastermark

        Praised Be !

        • Oscarlating Wildely

          May the Lord open.

    • Lee Grupsmith-Pedersen

      How many of us would end up on the Wall? How many would be shipped to the Colonies or just shot in the streets?

      • Oscarlating Wildely

        Um all of us.

        • Lee Grupsmith-Pedersen

          Well, yeah. I thought this was a pretty obvious rhetorical question.

    • Yeah But No

      Nolite te bastardes carborundorum

      • Oscarlating Wildely

        Bitches. You gotta have the bitches part,

  • JoeMyGod

    Never forget: Agnew went first.

    • Hank

      Let us see what sort of Corruption, we can find in the state of Indiana!!! /s

      • olandp

        Pence is hated in Indiana for the polices he pushed forward. He’ll be hated by the country when it becomes evident he wants to do the same thing to the entire country.

    • Phillip in L.A.

      That is a good point, Joe! Thx for posting!

    • olandp

      We can fight Pence. Trump isn’t unpopular just because he is a con man, the policies he is implementing and his incompetent cabinet secretaries also play a big role. Pence would have to clean house and then when he tries to implement his agenda there will be further backlash. Then he can be paralyzed until the 2018 mid terms.

    • Grumpy Old Man

      I shudder when I think of the bullet we dodged on that one. That was one rancid dude.

  • Cuberly

    I can see what Sen Franken is saying but I’m of the opinion that Trump is considerably more dangerous due to his incompetence. He’s MUCH more dangerous. If we have to contend with a Prez Pence, more of a chance it’d be for a shorter duration, and we’d have to work our asses off to get a Dem in office…..just an opinion.

    • I concur.

      • Cuberly


        Trump’s impact on an international scale. He’s breaking everything.

  • Jerry Kott

    Could, would, not the time to rationalize – clean house

  • bkmn

    Agreed. Trump has been highly ineffective because he has no idea of how things work, Pence on the other hand, knows how DC works and is dangerous. Of course there is the little matter that Pence is likely heavily involved with Russia and the coverup too….

  • TheManicMechanic

    Lock ’em ALL up!

  • AJA

    I don’t disagree, I think Pence is as evil as they come.

    That being said, when choosing between two evils, I’ll go with the competent one every time.

    Also remember that there are literally 5 people that would have to be impeached/resign before we get to a sane person in charge (Mattis). So it’s not happening.

  • Gerry Fisher

    Democratic leadership seems to be sparing no energy in telling us not to root for impeachment too soon. I think that the best reason for patience is that a complex investigation like this takes time, and I really want guilty people to be nailed with legal consequences.

    • Skokieguy [Larry]

      A more thorough investigation may take down Pence & Trump’s kids, and a lot more. It could be President Ryan – let’s not forget his “Speaker videos” which were not even disguised campaign ads.

      • canoebum

        It is just as likely that the next Democratic Speaker could be President, not the Gym Bunny with the brain to match.

    • Hank

      Let it take its time, even for ALL 4 years of Hair Drumpf’s being in the position…. As LONG as it makes, him getting ANYTHING accomplished, which would have Negative effects for the country!!!

  • Derrick Johns

    Yes, the undertaker from Indiana could be worse. We can’t win.

    • Jonathan Smith

      We can. We will. We MUST

      • Derrick Johns

        Yes, Jonathan. Yes. I meant at this moment in American history–it’s a difficult time. We’d trade a lunatic Trump for an ideological right-wing policy maker: Pence.

    • AJ Drew

      Serious content aside, gotta love that he refers to himself as a daywalker. Ha!

      • Helen Damnation 🍑™

        I don’t know what a daywalker is, but daytrader certainly comes to mind.

        • AJ Drew

          Ha! Del Moro does look like a daytrader perhaps. He’s “owning” the daywalker insult as a preemptive punch against potential trolls.

    • In the midst of the 2016 presidential campaign, then-Trump adviser Gen. Michael Flynn made an unreported trip to the Middle East to work on a joint Russian-U.S. venture in Saudi Arabia, possibly having multiple contacts with Saudi officials that he failed to disclose when seeking renewal of his security clearances, according to Democrats who are seeking detailed records of Flynn’s travels.

      Two potential crimes here, as I see it:
      – Violation of the Logan Act, which bans citizens from engaging in foreign policy
      – Flynn didn’t include this trip on his security clearance disclosure either

  • Start with The Beast, then get the Torquemada wannabe, then the live version of Gollum, and continue on through the entire rethuglicunt party and some of our DINO ass-lickers.

    THEN we invalidate a couple of SCOTUS appointments, and all congressional districts get redone based SOLELY on population size, and finally send the E.C. to the trash bin of history.

    THEN, and ONLY THEN will we finally have something we might call a “democracy”.

  • I have (admittedly perhaps misplaced) enough faith in our government that any investigation that nails Trump will also bring his entire cabinet down. How far down the level of succession we have to go to find someone untainted by Russian influence remains to be seen, but I am confident it will happen.

    • coram nobis

      That was true enough for Watergate and Teapot Dome: it took out a lot of Cabinet officers and staff standing near the president. Pence may also be implicated if he was involved in the campaign planning or transition.

      • Gay Fordham Prep Grad

        Oooh, nice historical reference, Teapot Dome. Teapot Dome the biggest scandal to hit Washington until Watergate. In retrospect, Tea Pot Dome was probably bigger than Watergate and took down politicians all across the political spectrum, but it didn’t have TV network coverage so it’s consigned to a page or two in high school history texts.

        • Xuuths

          Agreed. I was also going “ooh…”

        • grada3784

          But it gave us the Fall guy.

        • Maybe it’s time for a film about Teapot Dome?

    • I envy your confidence that truth matters and that justice will prevail. I don’t mean that condescendingly. I really do wish I had that kind of faith in humanity.

  • Michael

    My take on Pence, since he was running the transition and was in charge of hiring Flynn, is that he is either incompetent or complicit. Either way, he’s damaged goods.

    • Xuuths


    • Maggie 4NoH8

      I have a feeling Pence might end up under the Access Hollywood bus – thrown there by Trump of course. Personally, I think Trump might survive, but campaign figures and those paid off with positions (DeVos, Kushner, Bannon etc) will become the scapegoats, along with Pence.

      • matrem

        But then they’d all talk.

  • Halou

    Pence is implicated in the TrumpRussia scandal. I doubt he will have much time or political capital to spend on creating a Faith State.

    • Xuuths

      Let’s hope he goes down with the shit. I mean ship.

  • Michael

    Uh, Pence got into major trouble over his bathroom bill. It’s no coincidence they’ve instilled the most anti-gay cabinet possible. Once Trump is gone the bathroom bill will pale into comparison to what he’ll be able to achieve now.

  • HandsomeMrToad

    I’ve been thinking this for a long time.

  • BlindBill

    Pence will not be easily re-elected, unless he has been laundering Russian money too.

  • canoebum

    While it is true that Pence is a Dominionist, an ideologue and Charter Member of the Gingrich Cabal, he is a rather conventional politician with whom we know how to deal. Yes, he’ll excite all the Evangelicals, and they’ll make a big push for their 19th century agenda, but we’ll push back, strongly. We can do that. Remember, we as a community, a population, have something Pence will never, ever have, charisma. To a 21st century audience he’ll have all the appeal of chipped beef on toast. It won’t be fun, but at least we won’t end up in an accidental war.

    • mark99k

      Agree. It’s not that Pence isn’t evil, but he isn’t a batshit insane narcissist like Trump. If Pence ascends to the presidency, he won’t fuck over US foreign relations (any further), and his agenda will be mostly *addressable* as Trump’s largely is not. If fighting Trump is like chasing a demented ferret with late-stage rabies, Pence is more like a really nasty-tempered housecat.

    • Or, Pence will be smart enough to bring in people who can word resolutions and bills in such a way that they can get by the conservative but mostly not batshit crazy judicial branch.

  • AW

    I don’t know. Domestic policies would be abhorrent under Pence but I feel that we can recover from that much faster than the international clusterfuck that we’re in with Trump.

  • ultragreen

    All of the Republicans are terrible. I wish there were still moderates, but there aren’t any left. This political party is pushing the country into gilded age barbarism, the end result of which will be the destruction of an educated prosperous middle-class and the complete collapse of our civilization. And so Pence, Trump, or whomever, it really doesn’t matter, because:

  • BobSF_94117

    The only bright side is Pence would not be allowed to get away with the shit Trump does because he can’t pretend to have that ridiculous personality Trump does.

  • CottonBlimp

    Make no mistake, Pence is completely connected to the Russia shit. Trump was tricked into making Pence his VP by Manafort. If Trump is impeached, Pence also should be.

    • Maggie 4NoH8

      Christie? Or did you mean Pence?

      • CottonBlimp

        Whoops, brain fart there. Was thinking about how Christie was Trump’s original pick, but the Russia people didn’t like him because he was just a two-bit crook instead of a Russian con.

  • JWC

    the only way around that is criminal charges and get rid of them all Remember America they work for YOU YOU are their bosses

  • JT

    Take a deep breath, Al. Pence is a former Congress critter. Do you honestly think he’d be worse on everything other than foreign relations?

    • Maggie 4NoH8


  • Keith D Plane

    and look at who is 3rd in line – Opie….think on that for awhile.

    • and possibly second. The President selects the new VP now, and Pence and Ryan are close friends — and Ryan would be a good VP for a Pence in 2020. The Speaker is next in line now, but the VP does not remain open.

  • While Pence is horribly, virulently anti-LGBT (and a lot of other things) I’d at least like someone who could act appropriately presidential. And I’m not so sure any specific policy today would be any different under Pence. Remember, when they approached Kasich for veep, they told him he would run “domestic and foreign policy.” Trump only wanted the win. He didn’t and still doesn’t want to be prez.

  • Henry Auvil

    Al Franken is a gift from goddess. Thank her that there are a few intelligent members of the Senate.

  • Helen Damnation 🍑™

    Pence and “meaner than cat shit” Jeff Sessions will be a highly dangerous, volatile combination. Two peas in a mother-fuckin’ pod.

  • JWC

    The Trump world wasn’t to crazy today Other than hearing Jared speak with the same shock as when “talkies” first came out Whatever will rchel have to play with tonight Even Donny thinkink he dug the Panama really wasn’t a biggy

  • andrew

    Franken is correct. Let Trump stay where he is and hope that the American people make a major course correction in 2018 and give the Democrats control of both Houses of the Congress. From 2018 -2020 the Democrats can control the extremists tendencies of the Republicans and lay the ground work for a major Democratic victory in 2020.

  • No worries, when all is said and done, it will be #PresidentHatch.

    • paganguy

      From your mouth to whomever-is-listening’s ears…

  • Phillip in L.A.

    Agree with the Senator from Minnesota!

  • I’m not sure if better or worse apply here. It’s horrible now and it would be horrible if Pence became president. It would be a different kind of horrible certainly. Whether it would be a better or worse horrible depends on which issues you care most about. It will certainly be worse for millions of people, maybe a little less horrible for some others.

    Also, even if we can win enough seats in the 2018 midterms to impeach Trump, I don’t see how we get to the 67 senators to vote to remove him from office. This idea that the Republicans are going to grow a conscience and get rid of him over the objection of a base that still loves him is ridiculous. I get why people are in denial and think that will happen. I wish I could believe it too but I see too many people too confident that somehow the Republicans are going to clean up their own mess. It’s a misguided faith in the wrong people. Resist, resist, resist. No one is coming to fix this mess for us. We are struck with Trump until January 2021 and the sooner we realize that and plan a strategy to get the House back, the better. At least that would allow us to block a lot of his bullshit.

    • another_steve

      I agree with much of that, Houndentenor. No way is a Republican-controlled Senate going to vote to remove Trump from office. If the Dems win back control of the House next year (fingers crossed), it’s conceivable the monster could get impeached — but removed from office? No way.

      I also agree with Franken that a President Pence would be worse than Trump. Far worse. Pence is articulate and politically savvy. He wouldn’t tweet. He’d work the corridors of Congress and line up all the Rethugs squarely behind him.

      (I also think there’s a chance (a small chance) that Trump might resign before the end of his term. He’ll declare victory and go back to making a gazillion dollars a year without the need to hide those earnings via elaborate schemes.)

  • Blackfork

    Let’s not forget that Pence lied about knowing that Flynn was an agent for a foreign government and had not registered for it, since Cummings had sent Pence a letter before the election about Flynn’s being an agent.

  • ‘Til Tuesday

    Whatever you can say about Trump, he’s not a religious freak like Pence is. Pence has visions of a Christian theocracy playing in his head. Also, Trump won’t go out of his way to make LGBT live difficult. Pence will in a heartbeat! In any event, what a horrible choice between an unhinged narcissist and a religious freak! By the way, Trump has dirty hands on the whole Russia thing.

    • Blake Paine

      Pence is the foreshadowing of Gilead.

  • BudClark

    Mike Pence is a stone-cold Seven Mountains Dominionist KKKristianist MONSTER. What’s more, he knows how to operate the levers of government, which Trump doesn’t.

    Of course there’s nothing stopping Congress impeaching the lot of them as they turn up, one by one: Pence, Ryan, Turtle-Man, etc. etc. etc.

    Of course, it would be more economical and efficient to build a great gallows up and down the National Mall. After all, you’ve got those 41 TRAITORS who signed the letter to Iran and tried to derail the nuclear treaty. THEY have to be dealt with at some point.

    I’m sure they can make a kiddy-size noose for the anti-Keebler Devil Elf.

  • LesbianTippingHabits

    Senator Franken, with all due respect, please shut up!

    Yes, we know President Pence would be horrible, as is President Trump.

    If you want to endorse President Trump completing his term of office [note that Presidential elections are for a single term at a time], please just say so.

    It is frankly unhelpful to both complain about President Trump and then also to complain about a possible President Pence. Hillary lost the election.

    Thank you.

    • leastyebejudged

      Claiming he’s endorsed Trump in any way basically shows you to be a twit.

  • normadesmond

    DONALD HAS PROVEN HIMSELF A FABULOUS OBSTRUCTIONIST. PENCE WOULD JOIN ARMS WITH RYAN & MCCONNELL & THEY’D MOW US DOWN. Please let 2018 bring some major change (fingers’ crossed) THEN we can concentrate on removing the shitstain. If Democrats regain power in Congress, then Pence wouldn’t have the power to do too much damage. Of course, the most vulnerable institution is the Court, and we’re powerless.

  • roadtripboy

    Not “could be worse”…”would be worse”. Pence know how to work the system, how to get things done. He would be worse, for us it would be a disaster.

  • Piona O.

    Pence is just as crazy, Xtian, and bigoted as Trump…but he’s a “somewhat competent” politician. At least he has good teeth and a decent head of hair, things that can’t be said of Trump, and things that seem to matter the world to the Republican base.

  • Gregory In Seattle

    If both the President and VP are impeached, then the second in line is the Speaker of the House, Paul Ryan. If he is impeached, the third in line is President Pro-Tem of the Senate, Orrin Hatch. Fourth is the Secretary of State, Rex Tillerson. Fifth is Secretary of the Treasury, Steven Mnuchin. Sixth is the Secretary of Defense, James Mattis, then Attorney General Jeff Sessions, then more Cabinet secretaries. And every single one of these men is up to his eyeballs in the same corruption and treason scandal that could get 45 impeached.

    A thorough, gods-forsaken cluster fuck, no matter what may happen.

  • Jessicagkilpatrick

    my best friend’s step-mother makes $85 hourly on the computer . She has been fired from work for nine months but last month her pay check was $17089 just working on the computer for a few hours. see it here ++++++++++

  • I concur with Franken. El Jefe Covfefe is a bumbling fool slipping into dementia, but Pence would want to preside over a Domnionist America that resembles the Republic of Gilead in many ways, And with what he has in COngress, he could effectuate such a transformation.

  • Marti386

    NO, nobody is worse than a Russian puppet stooge.

    It doesn’t matter if Pence becomes President. It’d doesn’t even matter if Ryan becomes President (shudder). We HAVE to impeach Trump.

    We CANNOT allow this treasonous villain to occupy the White House any longer. We CANNOT allow him to get away with this. We have to send the message that this type of crap will NOT be tolerated. Because if we don’t, then we’re declaring open season to any crook who’s willing to sell out our country to the highest bidding foreign power. Trump has crossed SO many lines, it cannot be allowed to stand. No matter what.

    Plus, impeachment will send a message to Pence or Ryan or whoever takes the seat next that this will NOT be tolerated. They’ll be under a microscope, and they’ll know we’ve got our eye on them.