Clinton Campaign To Join Jill Stein’s Recount Effort

The Wall Street Journal reports:

Representatives from Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign plan to participate in the effort to recount ballots in three states that provided Republican Donald Trump his margin of victory, an attorney for the Democratic presidential candidate said.

In a blog entry posted on Saturday, the general counsel for Mrs. Clinton’s presidential campaign, Marc Elias, said that it was important for the campaign to be represented in any legal proceedings and public monitoring stemming from recount efforts launched by Green Party candidate Jill Stein.

“Now that a recount has been initiated in Wisconsin, we intend to participate in order to ensure the process proceeds in a manner that is fair to all sides,” Mr. Elias wrote, adding that the campaign would also participate in planned recounts in Pennsylvania and Michigan if they move forward.

“We do so fully aware that the number of votes separating Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton in the closest of these states — Michigan — well exceeds the largest margin ever overcome in a recount. But regardless of the potential to change the outcome in any of the states, we feel it is important, on principle, to ensure our campaign is legally represented in any court proceedings and represented on the ground in order to monitor the recount process itself,” Mr. Elias wrote.

  • Dramphooey

    Jill Stein is draining money needed by the Democratic Party to win future elections and fight Donald Trump and the Republicans next year.

    • Xiao Ai

      Or, she’s opening the door for Hillary to legitimize an argument toward an unfair election depending on perspective.

      • Dramphooey

        Beating the dead horse of Al Gore being defeated by hanging chads didn’t elect John Kerry.

        • Friday

          Partly because they didn’t contest enough about the other states, too.

          • i have a friend who was there working on the campaign. Al himself is to blame. very few of the people working on the recount at the time wanted to stop and were willing to fight. he was not.

          • Friday

            Not disputing that at all. Just it wasn’t even *only* about Florida coming down to a court judgment in favor of Bush.

      • Queequeg

        Exactly.

      • i really don’t understand why people hate stein so much. it’s not logical at all. she didn’t cost HRC the election, and she knows a recount won’t result in her winning. but bitter losers in the HRC camp just can’t seem to see that she’s doing what the dems have failed to do, on and off for 16 years and counting. stein may have some silly positions that made her a bad candidate, but in this effort she’s spot on and you’d think after all the whining about a drumpf administration people would be glad that someone is trying to do something to stop him. but for many, bashing stein is more important. it’s sad.

        • Dramphooey

          Well, it must be grating to Stein she couldn’t cost Clinton the election without help from Johnson. Bluntly, the best reason for realizing that Jill Stein is the scum of the earth is this particular grift taking advantage of the horror, mortification and desperation of a large group of people. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a295e4609f88ce3d5ebab875a6e68a56fa274ffa7410ebe446747bb07a82b6c5.jpg

          • grifting? what other than a recount is she spending the money upon? i’m not trying to be an ass, asking honestly. what else is the money going towards? salaries for people involved in the recount efforts seem legit if that is what.

          • GayOldLady

            Since those wanting a recount are largely Hillary voters, she’s getting a slice of a voter database, free. Stein has nothing to gain from this except face time, publicity, money, possible future donor base. She has already collected more money for the recount than her 2016 presidential bid collected. Yesterday her campaign said they can’t assure that all of the money collected will go to the recount.

          • no one is forced to send stein any money. and there’s nothing wrong with building a voter database from those who do. what, you think that dems don’t do exactly the same thing? why is it a bad thing when stein does it?

          • GayOldLady

            I didn’t say it was wrong, I gave you the reason why she engaged in the recount. She certainly didn’t do it for the sake of electing Hillary. She did it for self serving reasons like money, face time and data. The Green Party needs to reach 5% nationally to receive Federal Election funding, but her party is nowhere near. The Libertarians stand a better shot at Federal Money and if anyone is to gain from this recount in that regard, it would the Libertarians. I, personally, wouldn’t send Jill Stein a bus token, let alone money with my name attached to it.

          • Dramphooey

            Don’t worry. I’ve been assured this won’t hurt anything. Unless you count all of our friends being crushed a second time because they’re eating up this grift like a ham sandwich.

          • Friday

            Seriously, the recounts are happening, that’s what people are donating towards, no point pre-accusing of some grift. This could be the first productive thing she’s done all year.

        • Friday

          I disagree, and it’s not just the votes she *got* …it’s the entire counterproductive *campaign* that did nothing but attack Hillary and dissuade progressive voters with false equivalencies. Frankly her stunt was the cause of me ripping up whatever my previous Green Party affiliations were worth by now. (Admittedly largely moot, I haven’t been anywhere *with* Greens to speak of in maybe twelve years. )

          • Lazycrockett

            I firmly believe that if you were going to vote for Stein and if Stein had dropped out you weren’t going to vote. There is a small percentage of people who vote conscious and nothing can persuade them.

          • JaniceInToronto

            Better than voting unconscious… ; )

          • Friday

            I disagree, though it’s *not* just those that actually voted for her heedless of the dire consequences, (Who weren’t many more than one might expect for a minor party, if that) …it’s all the damage done even to get *those* …without even actually promoting a progressive message, just adding more anti-Hillary distortions.

          • who do you think was influenced by stein’s message? around here, i could toss 1,000 frisbees and still not hit a person who even knows what the Green party is, let alone heard stein’s campaign messages.

            it’s time to accept that HRC is primarily to blame for her “loss,” and that her campaign message didn’t work anywhere near as well as her advisors thought it would. stein was not a factor.

          • Friday

            Oh, actually a lot of people bought into her (among others’) “Hillary is just as evil” BS , particularly in that ‘youth vote’ and BS on facebook repeating things from the Russian and Macedonian and other trolls… She probably *didn’t* actually get a tenth or twentieth of the votes she dissuaded completely or justified people supporting Trump for, but it was if nothing else that much more diversion from *policy* over having to fight on the “Hillary’s maligned character” factors.

        • Blake Jordan

          The fact that Stein campaigned almost exclusively against Sec. Clinton… even though Donnie was the only threat to the USA and the world in the election!!!

          • well, she was running as the candidate who was supposedly more leftist than clinton, and i am guessing that very few drumpf voters would have even considered voting for her, so i can understand why that might have been her strategy.

            but here in OH, i didn’t see a single Stein ad. there may have been some, but she was mostly invisible, as far as the candidates go. and anyway, the sum total of all 3rd party votes didn’t exceed the margin by which HRC lost to drumpf. so you can’t really blame stein for that.

        • zhera

          Didn’t she say that Hillary would be a worse President than Donnie?

          A statement like that is enough for me to loathe her. But I will acknowledge that Stein is doing good now, even if it might be for her own interests.

        • Skeptical_Inquirer

          I think some of her positions and kooky and I find it iffy she’s was chatting it up with Putin but useful things done by people I don’t like are still useful.

        • William

          Stein’s anti-vax statements are enough for me to discount her. And then there’s her singing….

          • the anti vax stuff kept me from voting for her as well. but what she’s going right now, you’d think hrc people would want. you know, action.

          • William

            I’m all for recounts. Any evidence of tampering should be made public.

    • Lazycrockett

      The dems can’t do anything till they elect a chairperson and that doesn’t happen till I think March. Plus this isn’t the DP doing this its the people.

      • Dramphooey

        Do you think Jill Stein is going to share her GoFundMe money with the Clinton campaign counsel?

        • Lazycrockett

          If you have read the website you already know the answer.

          • You just made me cough up leftover cranberry sauce cracking up laughing lol. 🙂

          • Dramphooey

            So the answer is “no.”

    • Gerry Fisher

      Do you see what Americans spend money on? We can afford this.

      • William

        One week of security at Trump Tower costs more than a recount.

      • Dramphooey

        How about the Senate race in Louisiana? Might that be a better way to spend money?

    • bob

      We can’t afford not to follow this through! It cost DOUBLE what stein collected just for the security for a thanksgiving dinner in Florida !

      • Platos_Redhaired_Stepchild

        I think the Whitehouse is a pretty nice x-mas president to all my Hillary supporting friends.

  • Xiao Ai

    Saw this one coming. At best it’ll keep some things at bay if she doesn’t take the middle road. I don’t want change that steers us further to the right at this point. We still need to swing hard to the left just to balance out the past 40 years.

  • Queequeg

    I think it is good that Hillary didn’t start the effort, but will join in. It is unlikely to change anything, but it is a big “fuck you” to Trump and his budfies, Putin, Assange and Comey.

    • JaniceInToronto

      Trump, Putin, Assange and Comey do not give a rats ass whatever results come of this. It will be a huge waste of time and money. It’s over. Sorry…

      • William

        It is worth it, if there is proof that results were manipulated.

        • MonochromeMouse

          That will be worth it just to be able to rub the fact that they were the source of any “rigging” in the faces of tRump and his followers.

          • Falconlights

            Exactly.

        • Falconlights

          Already vote padding has been found in Wisconsin. They should also . consider an audit to get to the bottom of all this.

      • Oscarlating Wildely

        If the shoe was one the other foot, Trump’s minions would be not only protesting the result with every ounce of their being, their collective hatred oozing out of every pore, but would want a recount in every poll place that is in a neighborhood with a zip code. They would do it for hatred and to show that they will not go gently into that good night (yes, I know, they wouldn’t catch the reference.) Let us show them that yes, we too can play and more, we make sure every vote counts in an official tally, even if it changes no outcomes.

        The money was raised privately for this purpose– unlike the public funds being used to rent out his wife’s bordello. It serves a higher good of an accurate vote. It means we’re not rolling over dead. Sounds good to me.

        • Bj Lincoln

          Perfect. I sill have some hope the electoral college will see what horrible thing they caused and correct their mistake. Any child can see the difference between the parties and pick Hillary every time. My friends 6 year old niece was very upset about the wrong winner. He is mean and a bully and doesn’t know what he is doing. Hell! She has a better clue to what it takes to do the job than he does.

        • Librarykid

          Look at McCrory in North Carolina for Exhibit A.

      • cleos_mom

        il Douche opened the door by predicting that the election would be rigged. The fact that most of us didn’t know he silently added “by me” doesn’t make it stink any less. Paint your own Kick Me sign; most of us want no part of it.

        • JaniceInToronto

          It’s OK. The entire world is sorry for you. Well, maybe Guatemala…

      • Queequeg

        I suspect you are right, but we need to be a pain in the ass for Trump for the entire time he’s in office.

        • JaniceInToronto

          Oh, I agree absolutely. They need to kept under the microscope and undergo intense examination of all their affairs.

          Now if the fucking media would cooperate and show some balls by challenging these idiots, things -might- change, slowly.

    • Xiao Ai

      …and the Evangelical, White Supremacists.

      • Pearlrwilson

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        !mj65d:
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        • Mike__in_Houston

          Flagged.

      • Queequeg

        Yes, them too.

    • As we move forward the following should happen:

      1. Make a constitutional change for the requirements of the President; I mean seriously it is more difficult to be a school custodian than President of the USA.

      2. Make EVERY state have mail in ballots as it is essential with an aging population as well as a population that is spread out; can not afford to take off work in addition to revitalizing the USPS system.

      3. Stop the electoral college as so to make EVERY vote count with EQUAL weight from Rhode Island to California; therefore increasing voter turnout nationwide.

      • (((GC)))

        I’d rather see #2 as “Make EVERY state have generous early in-person voting, including weekends, including Sundays, as well as no-excuse absentee voting.” And perhaps Election Day should be a national holiday as well. (Thanks, Christianity, for making it end up on a Tuesday! http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/11/06/why-do-we-vote-on-a-tuesday-blame-the-church/ )

        Inside the voting booth, your vote can’t be manipulated, coerced, or bought as it could be with vote-by-mail. There’s something about showing up in person to protect the sanctity of the secret ballot.

        And add #2.5: Make EVERY state use paper ballots. They can be quickly scanned by machine, but remain as a tangible record of every voter’s intent, not vulnerable to large-scale electronic fraud (that Republicans are strangely unconcerned about!) and can be sampled, audited, and recounted by hand if necessary.

        Amen to #3! It shouldn’t take three and a half Californians to equal one Wyomingite. National Popular Vote could “patch” the system in time for the 2020 election. http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/

      • Queequeg

        All great ideas, but, with the fascists now in complete control, I doubt anything constructive will happen, but, you are right, we need to keep pushing.

  • JT

    Better late than never.

  • You know, the Dems could have done this without that zit on butt of socialism getting involved, but good grief are the Dems spineless. You won the popular vote. Act like it.

    • justmeeeee

      Time for Hill-bots to give up the bitter.

  • DaddyRay

    Of course they will as will the Trump camp

  • Also wtf Albertans, did America’s stupidity rub off on you too.
    http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/calgary/alberta-poll-trump-presidency-1.3868677

    • grendel38

      there’s a joke here in Canada that if Alberta seceded and joined the US it would raise the average IQ in both countries. 🙂

      • gaymex1

        That’s hilarious.

        • thatotherjean

          And from the way things have been going in this country, possibly true.

          • gaymex1

            When hubby and I moved to a rural part of South Carolina, a friend said that between us and a nearby lesbian couple, the I.Q. of the area had jumped by a couple of standard deviations. I didn’t know what he meant until I met a few of my neighbors. Whew…the overabundance of Christian private schools and home schoolers had left its mark. I liked the country life, but I was happy to move on . There are certainly many exceptions, but generally SC is a hotbed of religiously inspired ignorance and the glee filled hate that springs from that ignorance.

    • Hue-Man

      Makes sense. Ontario auto industry is under threat. Quebec and B.C. are worried about softwood lumber exports to the U.S. Alberta wants Keystone pipeline to be approved.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c066ed7848a44d1655c17cad9c259bcf2c29d801e710b03887978d295ba29377.jpg

      • Oscarlating Wildely

        Before the election, I always felt for Toronto whenever I thought of Rob Ford. “I mean, the man had a press conference and seriously talked about eating his wife’s pussy to a crowd of reporters. How crass! How crude!”

        And then Trump. I think Ontario gets it loud and clear.

        • zhera

          He did WHAT?

          • agcons

            He sure did. Google search Rob Ford, if you haven’t already, and luxuriate in the intensely vulgar stupidity of it all.

    • Canadian Observer

      I do wonder about the methodology of that poll. Given that at least 10% of the population of Calgary appear to be Americans (working in the oil industry for the most part, but maintaining American citizenship), it is not impossible that the sample might not have selected as carefully as it should. Then again, I have always maintained that my fellow Albertans tend towards the asshole end of the bell curve….

    • agcons

      I spent the first 40 years of my life in BC, right next door, and this comes as no surprise to me.

  • Lazycrockett

    If Wi flips expect Drumpf to start threatening Hillary with that Special Prosecutor.

    • Skeptical_Inquirer

      It’s terrible to say but imagine how much mileage she could get out of being a martyr.

    • zhera

      Would be pointless. There’s no new voting and the threat was all about whipping up the excitement in the haters.

      • Skeptical_Inquirer

        He’s a pretty spiteful asshole though. Look at all the crap he’s putting Rmoney through. He wants Rmoney to grovel before him to soothe his ego.

        • Lazycrockett

          and then give Ghoulini SOS.

    • William

      Trump doesn’t want to be in the same hemisphere as a special prosecutor. One the position is created, they can investigate anything.

    • Steven B

      If Wisconsin flips then she becomes the President elect and he has no authority to do shit

      • Wisconsin and Michigan together won’t do it. She’s need to add Pennsylvania or Florida. Flip just PA and MI, Trump just barely wins. You need to flip either MI+WI+PA, or FL+any one of the others.

        • Oscarlating Wildely

          Start checking Philly a bit closer….

          • Amanda B. Rekendwith

            I find it odd that Pennsylvania was the state that Trump was so insistent they would win.
            Remember how he said, if we lose Pennsylvania, for sure something’s rigged.

        • Stefan Heikel

          Even just one or two states would likely have an effect on more Electoral Votes flipping.

  • Mark

    I keep thinking there are powers at play bigger than the Clintons – and the international barroom brawl that follows the Orange Cheeto getting sucker-punched – is just what the doctor(s) ordered…..

    Of course i have trust issues. It’s a republican…and its Trump.

    • Lazycrockett

      I think if hacking has happened its not going to be from Russia, its gonna be from the FBI.

      • why not both? there’s plenty of proof the Russians have been hacking here, all over the place. one of drumpf’s advisors is married to a Putin agent. really, don’t discount them, not given how friendly putin and drumpf are.

        • IamM

          One?? Having only one extremely troubling connection to Putin would be a major improvement for Cheeto-Bandito.

      • Mark

        and I hear defense contracts are starting to run a bit thin….

      • Mark

        Could well be. But then, Comey didn’t come up with the email idea. He’s just not that bright.

  • HZ81

    Ain’t no harm in counting, unless math has joined science on the GOP No-No List.

    • DaddyRay

      Math joined the GOP No-No List with Trickle-down Economics

      • HZ81

        True. How would Jesus count?

        • Lazycrockett

          Jesus doesn’t need to count cause Magic.

        • Jeffg166

          Right to left.

        • zhera

          To 13?

        • TrollopeReader

          one loaf, two loaves, 5,000 loaves!

          • HZ81

            He loved a good loaf, that Jesus! 🙂

          • TrollopeReader

            and the wine trick ….

        • Nic Peterson

          I, II, III, IV…

          • HZ81

            Haaa!

        • Oscarlating Wildely

          “One plus God equals majority.”

          Fascists.

        • Jim Gallagher-Barker

          One fish, two fish, three fish, more fish.

          Fish, you’re all getting loaves & fishes!!!!!

        • ChrisMorley

          In aramaic numbers, like this א ב ג ד ה ו ז ח ט י כך ל מם נן ס ע פף צץ ק ר ש ת

          • HZ81

            Terrorist!

      • Jerry

        And Congress’ “dynamic scoring”…their math, like their version of science, is applied with a hefty dose of fairy dust and unicorn farts. That’s it! We can stop global warming if only we can get the unicorns to quit farting!

      • Paula

        Its called Fuzzy Math now.

  • Natty Enquirer

    The time, money and energy are better spent battling the coming onslaught of policy reversals.

    • armchair

      Then start your own fundraiser for that. It’s easy to sit back and do nothing but offer up opinions against people who are putting a lot of effort into actually getting up and doing something.

  • greenmanTN

    No matter how it turns out it will be a mess, but there was something way off about this election. The places with elevtronic ballots were at least 7% different in results than paper/scan votes.

    No more electronic voting. Paper ballot scan, fine.

    • Blake Jordan

      So true, a physical copy of votes is critical!!!

      • Mark

        My polling place was all electronic…and i remember walking away thinking…I have no proof….no means to dispute.

        • Treant

          Ditto mine. My damned grocery store can give me a receipt, there’s no reason my voting place can’t.

        • Friday

          They have those here, too, funny how the no-paper-trail ones are so popular with Republican regimes: not very confidence-inspiring. I have to say *my* town came down just as expected and polled and all that, despite a certain amount of Berniebottism and other general disaffection: part of why the results elsewhere in the country were both so surprising and suspicious.

          • Falconlights

            I wonder why the Repubs like no paper trail voting. Actually I don’t but anyway…

          • Amanda B. Rekendwith

            They’re not real keen on paper trail accounting, either.

        • Joe in PA

          Mine too. 🙁

          • IamM

            Me three. Not that it probably matters for the totals in Georgia.

        • Jerry

          My county uses ES&S machines, which produce a printout as you’re voting…so they can be hand counted later, if necessary.

          • IamM

            We need laws establishing basic standards for paper records and verification of results.

    • William

      We need to demand paper ballots in federal elections. Electronic voting is too easily manipulated.

      • Friday

        If nothing else, there’s just no way to be *confident* about it.

      • Xiao Ai

        Sadly, so is the electorate.

        • William

          Remember the good old days, when all it took was a misplaced (Iowa) shriek to end a campaign?

          https://youtu.be/RwkNnMrsx7Q

          • DonnaLee

            Which wasn’t even out of place when they looked at other film footage. It was a very loud venue at the time, but someone doctored the audio to take most of the noise out.

      • Falconlights

        We need to scrap this whole electronic voting. Rigging is too easy to do with electronic voting machines.Counting votes will take longer, but whatever. We’re voting for people who will lead us and the count must be accurate. I’m backing paper ballots.

    • Friday

      You know that if the Republican rigging *hadn’t* worked, how much ‘mess’ the Right had planned, from doubling down on obstructionism in Congress to all those threats of the violence we’re seeing anyway.

      • Ninja0980

        Indeed, Republicans were prepared to let Scalia’s seat stay vacant.

        • Stefan Heikel

          I would expect Hillary would’ve made a recess appointment.

        • IamM

          That’s one of the holes that needs to be fixed. Maybe let the president install an interim appointee until the Senate approves someone.

    • Ninja0980

      I agree.. with all the concerns over hacking, no way in hell machines should have been used in swing states.

    • IamM

      It’s already a mess. Making sure the results are accurate won’t make it worse. And if recounts or the electors make Clinton president, I trust her to deal with the mess a lot more than I do Donnie and the Rethuglicans.

  • FAEN

    Just thinking out loud. If she ends up winning WI should we have a recount in MI?

    • Treant

      MI is already in the works, as is Pennsylvania. Jill has enough money for PA, and just needs the last bit for MI, which it looks like she’ll get.

      • Now that the Democrats are behind it money is no object.

      • FAEN

        Thanks much.

    • Blake Jordan

      Sec. Clinton needs to win WI, MI & PA to take the presidency away from Donnie…

      • FAEN

        Fingers crossed.

    • One is in the works.

      • FAEN

        Thank you.

  • zhera

    Anyone know where the recount is now? as in, how many votes have been discarded/changed?

    • Friday

      (I mentioned below what I saw earlier today: I’d like to see more reports before holding myself to them but it seems they’ve already turned up quite a bit.)

  • Friday

    It’s really about time something like this happened under *any* circumstances, honestly: it’s quite likely one reason recounts have never overturned a vote-gap like this is precisely because Democrats have too often valued ‘being good sports’ over vigorously defending against Republican electioneering. Just what’s been done already in WI has turned up *thousands* of switched votes against a ‘gap’ of only 27,000, if what I read earlier is accurate.

    • Lazycrockett

      MSNBC was reporting this morning that 10,000 or more ballots in MI were just dumped cause of questioning people voting twice. It’s disgusting the things republicans have put in place to suppress votes.

      • Friday

        Sounds like Wisconsin to me. When I was there I saw their ‘vote-challengers’ hovering around in the polling place. Republicans in general.

      • TrollopeReader

        and guess what the margin in MI is …. yep, ~ 10,000 …..

      • SoCalGal20

        MI also doesn’t require an audit of their electronic voting machines like WI and other states do. I’m not even sure if there’s a process to request an audit.

        • I thought Michigan was all paper and optical ballots.

          • SoCalGal20

            Maybe it is? That was something I came across on twitter yesterday. Maybe they were misinformed or meant a different state? Or maybe MI has limited electronic voting? I know in CA it’s mostly optical paper ballots but each precinct has at least one electronic machine for people with disabilities and such. I don’t know how exactly it works since I’ve never used one.

          • IamM

            Paper ballots are still counted by machines. There are, practically speaking, zero safeguards built into them and congress made it illegal to disassemble the proprietary software that runs them to verify security etc. We’re basically relying on everyone in charge of elections doing their jobs right even though we never check that they have.

      • I don’t trust Michigan or Wisconsin since both Governors and State Legislatures are dominated by Republicans. They can pull all sorts of stuff. The Democrats are demoralized there. Same in Arizona, and North Carolina but the Dems managed to pull off a gubernatorial victory anyway (we hope). Pennsylvania is going to be tougher since the Governor is a Democrat and there are more safeguards in place there. I am not sure we can pull of Pennsylvania.

  • gaymex1

    Trump would be counting every ballot in every state if the shoe had been on the other foot. He would be endlessly recounting and endlessly suing every non-republican to produce proof of his/her vote.

    • yup.

    • Tiger Quinn

      That’s why I don’t get why people are dragging their feet on this – you KNOW we’d be in court until July, counting every ballot in every county. Look at McCrory – he’s still claiming dead people voted.

      • Oscarlating Wildely

        I’m still claiming McCrory’s actually a zombie and was an inspiration for the latest Walking Dead episodes. Not sure who Lucille is.

      • gaymex1

        The Republicans take advantage of our sense of fairness and our willingness to consider different viewpoints–a terrible weakness when dealing with the hardnose tactics of tyrants. When is the last time anyone heard of Republicans giving a rat’s ass about what would be good for the people or society as a whole unless somehow connected to profits for the few. If the ensconcing of a new president is delayed to ensure fairness, so be it. Obama could just hang in until the election was demonstrated to be fair. Surely everyone will go along with that…lol. I would.
        You’re right McCrory is a Republican role model. Win at all costs. Those black people don’t understand what they’re voting for and them thar Mexicans can’t speak English anyway, so who cares? Skin color and change frightens the hell out of Republicans.

        • Falconlights

          So would I. I’ve been saying to my wife that Obama could stay in office while the mess is being straightened out. I certainly will go along with that idea. The only people that don’t want a recount and assurance are those who have something to hide.

        • Librarykid

          not only hard nose, but underhanded

          • gaymex1

            I think we’re both being more civil than they deserve.

    • thatotherjean

      See North Carolina Governorship for the template.

    • Librarykid

      and telling his thugs to hit the streets.

      • gaymex1

        to say nothing of the apoplectic twitter shitstorm he would belch in the wee hours.

  • Richard

    This election was stolen…rigged just like tRump said it would be…… The only way Republicans can win is to rig and steal…… wake up America !

    • people try very hard to cling to the illusion that we still live in a democratic republic of laws. it comforts them. and facing the fact that we don’t also means that a lot of comfy folks would have to do a lot more than write a few checks, to restore that form of govt again.

      • Friday

        It’s not just about ‘illusion.’ Civilization does require a backbone of implicit ‘social contract.’ It’s like the value of money: ultimately illusory but also indispensable to function in a complex society.

        • Tiger Quinn

          Well said.

  • Mark

    I don’t think there is hardly anyone who hasn’t wondered about the election results – considering the ENORMOUS “error” in almost every reliable poll – and at the same time doesn’t want to be seen as a bad loser…..and i think “they” are counting on that.

    • Skeptical_Inquirer

      We need to stop trying to be nice. This nice shit just steamrolls us. Nice doesn’t get us someone on SCOTUS. Nice doesn’t win elections.

      • cleos_mom

        And we need to remember that when anyone whines about how over it is and how on we need to move.

    • Friday

      Also the simple fact is that a sure sign Republicans are doing something is when they accuse others of it, and they just kept insisting ‘Rigged, rigged, rigged.’

    • It was about 2%. Hillary was projected to win by 3 – 4% in the Real Clear Politics polling average — and she will end up winning nationally by around 1.5% of the vote. She lost because of the distribution of the vote– in the electoral college. But the polls were not that far off in terms of projecting percent margin.

      • IamM

        True, however elections are riggable in the US and serious miscounts are also possible it’s time to stop relying on unsubstantiated faith that the results are accurate enough and start verifying.

        Along with other reforms like fixing or eliminating the Electoral College, putting an end to first past the post voting and partisan gerrymandering, and securing voters rights protections for all eligible voters nationwide.

    • kanehau

      The fact that even Trump was surprised that he won should say everything we need to know.

  • Jerry Kott

    What is disturbing to me is how the Democrats seem to be whispering and not shouting about the outcome. They need to show their claws and balls . They appear to believe that the Truth has any meaning to our adversaries. They appear to bring a Dictionary to a Street Fight and expect thugs to sit quietly be be lectured on fairness.

    • Skeptical_Inquirer

      I think part of the problem is getting the Mush Spew Media to pay attention to it. If/when WI flips to Hillary, there needs to be huge demonstrations to get the news out.

      • Lazycrockett

        Yeah the MSM is treating this like its some small group of angry people who are just unable to accept that they lost and they just need to calm down and embrace dear Leader. It’s like they don’t even want to discuss the constitution or the EC.

        • Jerry Kott

          True!, It is important to remember that the MSM is more interested in Keeping their jobs than doing their jobs. The days when the People depended on the press to expose wrong doing are gone.
          The MSM have become ass kissers and not ass kickers. Their feet don’t touch the ground anymore.

        • KarenAtFOH

          How dare anyone challenge their ratings meal ticket!

        • Skeptical_Inquirer

          The only reason they’re criticizing Trump now is how uncooperative he’s being with THEM, it’s not about shitting on us.

      • Jerry Kott

        True! The Media has been complicit in this fiasco supporting Trump.

        • Ross

          You wrote:

          The Media has been complicit in this fiasco supporting Trump.

          Condensed version:

          The Media has been complicit in supporting Trump.

  • It’s the weekend and I think JMG readers need it

    http://media4.giphy.com/media/rpnJbg75fxa3m/giphy.gif

    • PickyPecker

      Vorpal had a big Friday night?

      • TrollopeReader

        …well, he had a Friday night ….

      • Xiao Ai

        Be nice!!! It’s a holiday weekend. This started Thursday.

        • vorpal

          Here in Chile, it’s just a regular old weekend, unfortunately.

          • (((GC)))

            I’ll refrain from oafish comments. No need to string this thread along.

          • vorpal

            Oi!!! Are you trying to make me furryous?
            Those puns are bad enough even for me to where I draw the feline!

            Thanks for the morning (early afternoon, but I slept in) chuckle, GC. 😸

          • (((GC)))

            Oh, no need to be all catty and huffish! (Yeah, yeah, I know…)

          • vorpal

            Cod you be any more silly, my friend?

          • (((GC)))

            Orange you glad we’re having this silly exchange, actually? Whether on purrpose or just for the halibut.
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d8f76a04022d22c968416f9c8be45d0397420323e83b142bb8b8f2fa8d923a1c.jpg

      • vorpal

        LOL sadly, that GIF isn’t too far off :-).

    • JT

      Slinky kitty.

      • glass

        I was thinking, “Seal cat learns to use stairs”.

    • TrollopeReader

      That’s the Vorpie we know and Love !

      *bop-de-bop*

      • vorpal

        =sleepy purrs=
        Spent most of the day thus far making homemade pot stickers, watching movies, and recovering from my Friday night!

    • safari

      Choo choo bear

    • Paula

      I have heard of these boneless cats. I had never seen one until now.
      Think of it as evolution as action.

    • It’s a scientific fact that cats are liquids.

    • Falconlights

      Cool kitty!

  • The_Wretched

    Here’s hoping they aren’t joining in order to get the recounts and investigations quashed.

  • There are benefits to challenging the election even if there is no hard evidence that it was hacked. First, it shows the Republicans and Trump in particular that the plurality of Americans who voted for Hillary Clinton are not simply rolling over and accepting the election without putting up a fight. It there is a 1 in 100,000 chance (or whatever) that we can shift the results to Hillary Clinton we will take it. Make them nervous. Second, they keep on saying they have a mandate. They do not have a mandate. A mandate means that they popular consensus behind Trump. Whether it is a recount, a riot, a gentle protest, a walkout, anything — we must show that they do NOT have a popular mandate for Donald Trump.

    • Lazycrockett
      • Jay George

        I saw that movie. Do the Right Thing, in Troy, Alabama. I was the only person in the theater.

    • Falconlights

      Agreed. The Trump camp likes to carry on that they have a mandate and it is very clear that they do not. I’m certainly not going to take Republican cheating lying down. Trump is like “This is all a scam.” Nah, Donnie. YOU are the scam.

      • Amanda B. Rekendwith

        He needs to be reminded he only has a trumpdate.
        It’s like a mandate, but a couple of million short.

    • Librarykid

      The rolling over and accepting was so sad in 2000. I am very glad for this show of backbone in 2016. Enough is enough.

    • IamM

      Also, hacking or fraud or miscounting or none of the above there’s no way to verify the integrity of the voting system if we never do any audits. Practically speaking, we’ve been placing blind faith in an insecure system for a long time instead of securing the processes and checking for fraud.

  • Tiger Quinn

    The way I see it, if Wisconsin proves voter fraud (and it already is handily), then that’s grounds to go forward. Prove enough, and you’ve got a SC challenge. This whole thing stinks to high heaven.

    • billbear1961

      Like the rotting carcass of FASCISM!!

    • Treant

      The SC might very well come back 4-4 that cheating is A-OK. But I’m hopeful that Roberts actually realizes that would destroy his reputation and his legacy on the bench.

  • SoCalGal20

    Reading this thread is a perfect example of why the left can’t get shit done. “What’s the point?” “We must do a recount” “Jill Stein is Satan” “Why is the Clinton campaign not being more forceful?” Why aren’t the Dems?” “This is a waste of money”. And on. And on. Meanwhile, Republicans are laughing all the way to the bank (while holding their noses in some cases).

    • Skeptical_Inquirer

      People need to get they don’t have to like or fall in love to find pragmatic value in something.

      I don’t have to want to hug Jill Stein to find what she did useful to US. I’m glad it’s being done and if it works, GREAT, and if it doesn’t then at least I don’t grind my teeth that nothing was done to look at some seriously iffy shit.

      I didn’t trust her to actually go through with it but now that she has, I’m glad she did it. Take what you can get and take it as far as you can go.

      • SoCalGal20

        Exactly.

      • Moebym of the Rebel Alliance

        I watched a video on FB a few days ago of Noam Chomsky arguing that all of us have a moral obligation to vote against the greater evil, even if we have a distaste for the other candidate (and he’s someone who doesn’t like Hillary). I wish this video had come out sooner, but it should be a lesson to those who made their decision purely out of spite for Hillary.

        People get so hung up on ideological purity that they forget that human lives are at stake. No idea should trump (sorry) human lives. Period.

      • cleos_mom

        I haven’t changed my general opinion of her but in politics, the enemy of your enemy is at least a colleague.

    • Ross
    • Falconlights

      Well, here’s a leftist who is very happy that this is happening. So glad that Hillary s now getting involved.

  • Tiger Quinn

    I guess my Tom Clancy wet dream here is that by sheer luck (or some actual patriot) massive voter fraud comes to light, or a clear link to the Russians, and we have a national recount, and it turns out that she actually won. Second fantasy, the Electors become faithless and have a collective “fuck that” moment, and vote for her. Either way, Fascism gets a spike right in the head by snatching the nuclear football away from Herr Dipshit, once and for all.

    It’s fun to dream.

    • Oscarlating Wildely

      Either way it makes people wonder about the legitimacy of his presidency, which yes, I believe we must and should do.

    • cleos_mom

      But in Clancyland, no woman would be elected POTUS.

  • billbear1961

    FIGHT!!

    Put some SHARKS on this!

    Tolerate no GARBAGE from ANYONE!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EmS6480JfQ

  • SoCalGal20

    OT but HELLO EARTH TO RUBIO. You may want to take a look at your own damn party. (Or maybe he meant that as a compliment)

    https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/802569762651901953

    • zhera

      Fuck you, Marco. Fuck you with Fidel’s dead dick.

    • Skeptical_Inquirer

      He’s just like those stupid Florida GOP whiners who complain that Miami and other Florida cities are getting soggy and will soon be flooded due to global warming but get all butthurt when GOPers in other states go “lalalalalalala, global warming is a Chinese conspiracy theory.”

      They think they are soooooooooo special and exempt from neglect until they find out they’re not, THE HARD WAY.

      • cleos_mom

        That’s what the delicate expression “high tides” was invented for in that neck of the swamp.

    • Jim Gallagher-Barker

      Way to hashtag, numbnuts. Spanglish for faithful to actors?

    • Jean-Marc in Canada
      • Skeptical_Inquirer

        I don’t even know why the hell they pretend they give a damn. Everybody knows they’re lying.

        • Tiger Quinn

          Honest answer – because the game is that every comment a politician makes is preserved going forward, and future generations don’t have context. If Marco made enough of these, consistently, yeah we’d all go “oh fuck you” but two gens from now they’d think he was pro gay. It’s a cheap way to work your legacy.

      • Tiger Quinn

        Oh, Marco Rubio! Our great friend and vocal ally!

        Every shade of fuck you MR, you absolute sack of floating crap.

    • Ninja0980

      Too bad the Democrats couldn’t have fielded a better candidate so that asshole could have been sent packing.

      • cleos_mom

        Too bad Harold Stassen is dead, amirite?

  • Trevor Brown

    What we really need to do is figure out a way to goad Trump into attacking the Electors personally on twitter and other social media. Perhaps one of those fake news stories that spoiled the election by spreading through social media until the mainstream media picked it up and gave it “legitimacy”? We could make it seem as though large numbers of Electors have already pledged to switch their votes to Hillary regardless of any recount. If we could get Trump whining about how the election was being stolen and the Electors should be arrested and prosecuted that could convince enough of them to vote Hillary just out of spite 🙂

  • Ross

    Previously stated:

    HOW could every single credible pollster have been so wrong? This has never happened before.

    HOW could every single credible forecaster have been so wrong? This has never happened before.

    HOW could Hillary lose when she had so many demographic groups hugely favoring her?

    HOW could Hillary lose when early voting hugely favored her?

    HOW was this all possible? It makes no sense.

    But one explanation comes to mind which explains it all.

    Donald was at least right about one thing: The election would be rigged.

    But in his favor.

  • IMHP the election was not stolen because of hacking and “funny business”. There is no hard evidence– Republicans have been accusing Democrats of this, it is not a new charge. Voter suppression in places like North Carolina (African americans) and Arizona (latinos) was much more of a problem this year., and unlike hacking, it can be proven — just point to an unfair law that is on the books. I do have a fear. If we manage to convince young voters that their vote does not count because “elections are hacked anyway” forget trying to get their participation rates up. Voters under 30 provided Hillary with her biggest margins and had the lowest turnout numbers. They also have the most “pliable” opinions of our Democratic system. Are we sure we want to lose this generation group?

    • Skeptical_Inquirer

      The problem is this: THE BEST WAY to make people think their votes don’t count is to keep losing even when you win and not to fight like hell to make sure their votes matter.

      Black people in the JIm Crow eras had a zillion barriers between them and voting but they kept on it. And frankly, when the GOP want to take something from people, you know that shit is valuable.

      Rolling over will just piss people off because they see a party that’s cool with losing even if they were ripped off. That’s the wrong message to send. It says “We don’t care. WE don’t fight for you. We’d rather just be patted on the head for preserving a rotten peace. We are Neville Chamberlain.”

      • Sure I agree. Demand a recount — just don’t say your vote doesn’t count because they will hack it at the end.

      • cleos_mom

        That’s the wrong message to send. It says “We don’t care. WE don’t
        fight for you. We’d rather just be patted on the head for preserving a
        rotten peace.

        Of course, that could always be billed as “being the Better Person.”

    • another_steve

      I’d like to believe as you do, Eddi, but I just can’t.

      You carefully followed the stories of Putin’s involvement in this campaign. His desperation to get Trump in the White House. The hackings of the DNC. Assange’s involvement.

      Can you honestly say those players were incapable of affecting — or not motivated to affect — the final vote tallies on Election Day?

      • No I can’t. So we have a recount. I just don’t want to say that voting does not make a difference since they will steal it at the end anyway.

  • The injured Michigan Quarterback Wilton Speight is back in the game and he’s playing well against Ohio State, Michigan is up 10-7 at half time. The only reason I am running this comment is to run a photo of handsome Wilton for everyone. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/bc044d73f830b62bc569eff22fe5c26948bfd9600572c22d8c1325cbecdd84cc.jpg

    • Tiger Quinn

      A bit plain, no?

      • Yes come to think of it. 🙂 I like plain with huge arms lol and lats. The superman look. Give him another 5 years and he will look less smooth.

  • Eric Lewis

    Trump said it was rigged .. just sayin.

  • Tiger Quinn

    I still read a lot of “why do this?” all over the ‘net – I guess the clearest answer is that if you want millions of future voters to believe their votes count, you damn well count the shit out of them, several times. Losing we can handle – believing our vote didn’t even matter is what causes half of registered voters to not show up. It keeps them from fighting voter suppression; it makes them give in to pressure. We’re doing THEM a favor by at least reassuring them that their votes really did and always will, matter.

  • Tor

    I’m surprised the Institutional Democratic Party is getting behind this. The usual MO is to roll over and ask to be dry-screwed again.

    • safari

      2016 is full of surprises.

      • Skeptical_Inquirer

        I want some more happier ones though. I want a huge Christmas gift to make up for all the crap that’s been happening.

    • another_steve

      I’ll be surprised if no irregularities at all are discovered as a result of the recounts. Highly unlikely that enough tampering will be found to reverse the election results, but also highly unlikely no irregularities will be discovered.

      So at a minimum, I think the Dems see this as a possible way of helping to delegitimize Trump’s presidency, in a small way.

      Trump and his fellow birthers have been trying to do that for years with regard to Obama’s presidency. The built-up resentment is quite substantial there.

  • Skeptical_Inquirer

    OT: The first couple minutes are a metal cover of Star Trek the Next Generation theme:

    https://youtu.be/7L54GYRcxSM

    • Lazycrockett

      Whoosh

    • Friday

      Pretty. 🙂

  • safari

    Michigan should be easy to recount. The ballots are paper with felt marked “connect-the-arrow” voting. These are optically scanned during election day with any invalid ballots being kicked out of the scanner when the voter puts it in.

    I’d say the system should already be right, but my city once missed two entire precincts after calling a local election when they found that there were 0 votes on record during cert.

  • kladinvt

    Maybe, just maybe if the recount changes the election outcome then perhaps some who bitterly trashed Jill Stein, might thank her for defending Our Democracy…?

  • Skeptical_Inquirer

    Gee, where the hell is Trump’s tweets and screaming about this? Or they just waiting for the results first?

    • HZ81

      Trump’s letting his flying monkeys handle this one.

      • Lazycrockett

        I haven’t seen Ms KellyAnne is days.

        • HZ81

          I spoke too soon. President Twitter Twat has weighed in.

    • He is busy shutting down all traffic near where I live in his Winter White House in Palm Beach. It will be like this four 4 years. Lucky Me!

    • another_steve

      “The results of the recount will be rigged!!!”

      • cleos_mom

        When il Douche said the election itself would be rigged he was telling the truth — knowing while he did that people would hear it totally wrong.

  • bkmn

    O/T – as I was driving around Olympia today I was passed by a USPS delivery truck and the first thought I had afterwards was ‘I wonder how many USPS employees voted for Rump and how they will feel when he signs off on shuttering the Postal Service.’

    • another_steve

      Or how about teachers who voted for Trump (I assume there were some) and will soon have a Secretary of Education who’s dedicated to doing away with the public school system in this country.

      • Skeptical_Inquirer

        One person elsewhere said a nurse she knows (a NURSE) with a kid on Medicare voted for Trump. Beyond stupid is what I say.

        • another_steve

          The list goes on and on.

          For me, the most incredulous thing is the fact that any woman voted for Trump. Did they not hear the tape? Did they not listen to the dozen women who stepped forward to recount their horror experiences involving the sexual predator? Do none of them have young daughters?

          Or Hispanics.

          Are there any Hispanics who voted for Trump who do not have an acquaintance or relative who stands to be rounded up by Trump and his Stormtroopers?

          • Jay George

            This teacher, Joan Neuberger, opposed open carry on campus, as do most teachers, but she was vocal about it and now she’s on Turning Point USA’s “anti-American” watchlist. The fascists are composing their lists now and if you oppose them, you’ll land yourself on a “list”. The problem isn’t so much that they’re making these lists, though I don’t like it. I want to know what plans they have for the people they place on them.

            Over 200 college professors are targeted by the list kept by this particular group. I don’t know the professors so I don’t know how many of them are Jewish or people of color, but understanding that these fascists are also racist, I imagine it’s a disproportionate amount. Fascists are poised to take over America now, and I’m sensitive to how loony that sounds, but know that I it’s the truth. If I, as a mostly white woman, am bothered and disturbed by these lists, how much more frightening must it be to be a person of color right now? How would you feel if your name was actually on one of these lists? How soon will it be before all our names are on a list?

            If you want to know what these people plan for Americans, look to their fantasies. Think about the imagined Jade Helm scare and the Walmart internment camps they made up during the Obama administration. They tell the truth about themselves by what they project onto others. They always do this. If there are internment camps being planned, they are the ones planning them.

            I am American and I am afraid.

            http://www.chronicle.com/article/What-It-s-Like-to-Be-Named/238486

          • another_steve

            We’re all kinda scared, hon, but I think that in 2016 there are certain societal safeguards — and an elevated consciousness among at least 50 percent of Americans — that will get us through this.

            It’s very very difficult to take rights away once granted. You can deny people certain rights (see: the American marriage equality struggle), but once granted they’re virtually impossible to take away. So it’s conceivable that a Trump-stacked Supreme Court will give same-sex marriage back to the states for their individual “decisions” in the matter, but existing marriages won’t be nullified.

            The monsters who back Trump would like to nullify our marriages, but they won’t be able to.

            Hang with the good folks here on JMG, babe, and fear not.

          • Jay George

            I hope you’re right. Even when GW was president, I was angry and disgusted, but I wasn’t scared. Part of me is glad I’m old so I won’t have an eternity to live with this shit and part of me wishes I was still young enough to fight as hard as I used to. I know all y’all are a buncha atheists, but I’m still praying for all of us. I don’t always know who I’m praying to however. o_o

          • another_steve

            Just for the record, babe, I’m not one of JMG’s militant atheists. I realize that’s the in-thing to be around here, but it’s not me.

            I consider myself an Apathetic Agnostic.

            “I don’t know and I don’t care.”

          • cleos_mom

            It’s probably based in one of the human species’ most popular delusions: that It Can’t Happen Here but if it does, it’s only the other guy/girl who gets hurt.

          • another_steve

            Oh I dunno, cm… the “women voting for Trump” thing was very very disturbing. Very fucked-up and dysfunctional.

            I suspect that sociology / psychology / political science Ph.D candidates will be writing theses on the subject for decades to come.

      • bkmn

        And the VA Medical system employees.

    • cleos_mom

      Everyone who does any online shopping — and that includes even fossils like moi — will get a nasty shock if USPS is abolished and UPS and FedEx can set whatever rates they want.

      BTW, I’m betting that people on the right aren’t the only ones who would initially be cheering that on. This century doesn’t exactly specialize in long-term* thinking so far.

      * i.e., further ahead than next week.

  • Lazycrockett
    • exactly what he’s told. TPTB really, really don’t want Americans and the world to know just how fucked our elections really are, and have been.

    • Friday

      Actually ‘from a cybersecurity perspective’ basically means ‘in terms of direct Internet hacking’ …which is in fact not something very likely in most states. This doesn’t account for people messing with counts or voter rolls or physical machines.

  • I’m very proud of the mature way the Clinton camp is handling this. Were the situation reversed, we all know how Trump and his campaign would have behaved. I’m relieved that Hillary’s legal council made this announcement. It’s a long shot, we all know. But who knows how the recounts will go, and how the electors will vote. Since election day Trump has already done some very outrageous things, including refusing to divest himself of investments that will bring him into direct conflict with the Constitution. His appointments to date have been somewhere between terrible and shocking. He has even refused most security briefings. A small number of electors have already said they intend to switch their vote to Hillary on December 19th. Who knows? Some of the three contested states could flip to Hillary. And even if they don’t, it is not impossible that enough electors would flip out of a patriotic desire to honor the popular vote and save America from the likes of Trump. An online petition asking them to do so has already gained over 4.6 million signatures.

    https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19?recruiter=8788083&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink

    • I still would rather have a President Trump than a President Pence which is what is going to happen if the election is thrown into the House, or if Republican electors decide not to vote for Trump – which is banned by law in many states. . I am not aware of any electors from states that Trump has won who have said that they will vote for Hillary. Are you sure about this?

      • another_steve

        I read somewhere that three Trump electors are on record as saying they won’t vote for him. Not sure if they’ve announced which candidate they will vote for.

        • I think they won’t vote for Hillary though.

      • Ben in Oakland

        not pence. ryan if it goes to the house.

        • They would have to vote for the candidates who got the top three votes in the electoral college, so if Ryan were the top 3 yes.

      • There were six so far who said they would refuse to vote for Trump. Without checking I’m not sure what states they are from. And yes, there are laws in a number of states requiring the electors to vote for the candidate who won that state. But those laws have never been tested in court. They appear to violate the intention of the founders. Plus the penalties for switching can be just a simple fine. Meanwhile the switched vote still apparently counts , even in states that don’t allow electors to switch. There are no previsions to invalidate the votes of so called “faithless electors”. I’m sure if enough electors switch to hand the presidency to Hillary there will be legal challenges that will end up in the Supreme Court. Which I suppose could always split 4/4, thanks to Republican unprecedented refusal to even hold a hearing to fill the vacancy on the Court. So who knows what will happen. But considering Hillary’s popular vote lead of over 2 million votes and growing, and the possibility of outside interference in our election process, and the extraordinary dangers presented to America and the world by a Trump presidency, I think all avenues should be pursued.

        • Gianni

          It is so painfully obvious that our “Electoral College” system of voting for President, needs to be shitcanned.

          • Can you believe that twice in 16 years it has led to disaster!?

          • Gianni

            That is the part that really galls me! We’ve now witnessed this farce twice in our lifetimes and both times it favored a Republican shithead. Even if it favored the Dem candidate, I’d still be in favor of putting the Electoral College in the trash. It’s a crap system and, even after reading up on the history of it and the reasons for its institution, I still cannot grasp any good reason for it.

    • cleos_mom

      Looking forward to one humungous, nasty-ass explosion. Like a faulty sewer pipe right behind an industrial-sized fan.

  • Jay George

    Thank God! Democrats must fight back!

    • Oikos
      • Jay George

        Wow… Barbara Kingsolver… thanks for sharing.

        • Oikos

          Please share this with others.

          • TuuxKabin

            Glad to see that. Thanks. Just before you posted it I received an email from a friend in Mexico with the article attached. It’s being distributed further.

          • Jay George

            I just put it up on Facebook.

      • houstonray

        This is wonderful and makes me feel empowered. I will distribute far and wide as well. Side note, Barbara’s book “Animal, Vegetable, Miracle” is amazing.

  • Jay George

    OT: Just in case this hasn’t been posted yet.
    County lawmaker calls for ban on conversion therapy
    http://news.wbfo.org/post/county-lawmaker-calls-ban-conversion-therapy

    “Burke is proposing a law titled the Prevention of Emotional Neglect and Childhood Endangerment. That forms the acronym PENCE, a reference to Vice President-elect Mike Pence, who has supported funding the therapy. “

  • MikeBx2

    Considering what lies ahead for Trump America, we need to be able to say we did everything legally possible to stop him.

  • I don’t want to be a downer– but the odds of a recount shifting the election in the three states are not that great.. Pennsylvania is the hard nut to crack. 68,000 votes are going to be hard to make up. Now, if Michigan and Wisconsin can be swung its a different story and who knows — but Pennsylvania is going to be tough. Still, I think a recount is a great idea because it shows Trump he does not have a popular mandate and America is not thrilled at his election.

    • bobbyjoe

      I think the goal– and this goes back to Halderman, one of the computer experts who asked for this– is not so much the seeming pipe dream of actually finding enough votes to change the outcome. I think the goal is to show that hacking and tampering took place. If it did, and if it looks widespread, the results of this election become in doubt not just for those three states, but nationwide. As the computer experts said, the only way to get in there and check things out was to call for a recount.

      It sure as heck can’t hurt to look.

      • OdieDenCO

        this was not a normal election. enhanced scrutiny should be expected.

      • Gianni

        I believe you are spot on.

      • Rt1583

        That’s what I’m hoping for. That the recount will show hacking and/or tampering took place and favor falls toward Clinton if for no other reason than Trump was crying about the whole thing being fixed.
        Not sure what would ultimately happen if hacking/tampering were discovered but at least it would spell the end of Trump as president and it may quite possibly put the GOP into a fatal tailspin.

  • rednekokie

    Good for you, Hillary — I honestly hope that you win.

  • JellyDonut

    Please tell me there is some way to fix this shit

    • Bryan

      Stay Calm and Be With Her – I’m getting that feeling that finagling happened and it was widespread enough to flip. Brexit’s the historical precedent for this election and Brexit’s soon-to-be-undoing/never-doing is the precedent that tells me these results as they are will be overturned.

  • JCF

    #I’mStillWithHer

    …and least she won’t grift the money.

  • Pearlrwilson

    Google is paying 97$ per hour! Work for few hours and have longer with friends & family! !mj66d:
    On tuesday I got a great new Land Rover Range Rover from having earned $8752 this last four weeks.. Its the most-financialy rewarding I’ve had.. It sounds unbelievable but you wont forgive if you don’t check it
    !mj66d:
    ➽➽
    ➽➽;➽➽ http://GoogleFinancialJobsCash66DigitalGlobalGetPay$97Hour ★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★::::::!mj66d:….,….

  • The Professor

    De legitimize him and his whole nasty crew. Let him start his short reign hobbled.