POLL: 24% Of Trump Backers Say Challenge Results

Politico reports:

An overwhelming majority of voters — 68 percent — think the loser of the 2016 presidential election should accept the results of the race, according to a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll conducted after the final presidential debate. Just 14 percent of voters said they thought the loser should challenge the results, as Donald Trump continues to decline to say if he’ll accept the Election Day outcome.

But the Republican nominee – who on Thursday said he would accept the vote totals only “if I win” – does not seem to be speaking to any major constituency within his party. Fifty-three percent of self-identified tea party supporters say the loser should accept the results, and a nearly identical amount – 56 percent – of self-identified conservatives think the same. Just 24 percent of Trump supporters want him to challenge a potential victory by Democrat Hillary Clinton.

Still, underpinning Trump’s argument – that the nation’s voting systems have been corrupted – is a relatively commonly held belief: Roughly half the electorate – 46 percent – say it’s very or somewhat likely that there will be widespread voter fraud. Forty-seven percent believe that fraud will come in the form of intimidation at the ballot box, 41 percent say it will be voters casting a ballot in the wrong location and 37 percent believe people will vote on behalf of someone dead.

  • Rex

    It’s not easy to get “The Election is Rigged Again” to print on a tin foil hat.

    • Stubenville

      We’re gonna need more Reynolds Wrap.

  • Michael R

    Aren’t we giving Trump and his idiots too much credit on this ?
    He’s just found another lame distraction .

    • Blake Jordan

      The violent idiots do seem to be getting more violent with time, as society as a whole moves away from their (lack of) values, so who knows what will get them to snap…

  • so….can someone explain the “intimidation at the ballot box” bit. cause every time i’ve voted, it’s been just me, the machine and the curtain. how would i be intimidated?

    • cleos_mom

      Maybe parking is expected to be rather frightening?

    • Randy Ellicott

      I think they are talking about at the polling location, as in a bunch of white angry Police officers standing around the polling location in a predominantly black neighborhood known for tense police-civilian relationship. Personally I am thinking of a bunch of drunken redneck trumpers standing outside the polling location harassing anyone not white, male or Christian looking. It is fairly easy to fix this if you know what to do, call the voter line, and the news with a video; it will be fixed real quick hopefully.

    • LackofFaithify

      The 3 sweet little old ladies that verify your registration will all have shotguns and cleavers this year.

    • lymis

      Remember that a lot of people live in places with open carry laws. So the Trump exhortation for his supporters to go to other districts and “oversee” things is, in some places, a call for armed white people to stand around the entrance to polling places in predominantly non-white areas.

    • Skokieguy [Larry]

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/91270057aa7f077e521c25540b3ec0af5503f5be90a438449dd20e2a7fe55f80.png

      And there are billboards in predominately minority locations designed to frighten potential voters. ‘What if I don’t have the right ID, what if I show my ID and they find out about that unpaid traffic ticket or old warrant?” These billboards are not going up in white and / or Republican neighborhoods.

      • greenmanTN

        That is really shady.

      • Jerry

        Or like OH in 2004, minority voters were getting calls that, if they showed up at the polls, they would be arrested. Didn’t say what they’d be arrested for…

    • marshlc

      Maddow was talking about this a bit the other day.

      There is a real feeling out in Trumpland that the New Black Panthers tried to intimidate white voters some years ago. Never mind that it didn’t really happen – it was all over Fox and they’re worried about it now.

      The fear that someone from the other side is going to try to steal your vote can lead you to behave in ways that amount to trying to steal the other guys vote – it’s the fear that is so corrosive, as opposed to anything that actually may or may not have happened in the past.

      And that’s why this type of talk is so dangerous – a big part of what makes democracy work is faith in democracy.

      • Reality.Bites

        I tend to think that in areas where people could get away with large-scale voter intimidation there’d be no purpose behind it anyway.

        If there were indeed urban gangs intimidating Trump supporters or rural gangs intimidating Clinton supporters, at worst they’d be slightly reducing the margin in an area where one candidate already has overwhelming support.

        To actually make a difference in a state that could make a difference, it would need to be on a massive scale that wouldn’t go unchecked.

        The best way to engage in voter intimidation is to find ways to disqualify or dissuade large amounts of people before they even go to the polls.

        • Mr. Cripple

          I made that exact point to my conservative father last night. Rural communities are so homogeneous and fearful of outsiders that I’m pretty sure they’d notice busloads of outside voters coming in to try to tip elections. In-person voter fraud is just another in the long list of right wing boogeymen.

      • Buford

        The Black Panther 2008 example is a good one… scary black men with night sticks are ‘obvious anti-voter intimidation’ worthy of DOJ prosecution, but armed idiot rednecks are patriots doing their civic duty…?

        http://www.theusreport.com/the-us-report/2012/6/5/with-doj-in-mix-will-democrats-try-to-pull-a-franken-in-wisc.html

        • The_Wretched

          I’ll be reporting any armed red necks I see near a polling location and everyone here should do the same. They don’t have a ‘free speech’ right to open carry near a polling place or even the main access routes to a polling place.

    • Stubenville

      There will be no intimidation in the polling place; that is clearly illegal. (If you see it attempted, call the police or the FBI.) The phrase usually refers to people hanging around outside the polling location, trying to menace people who look like they’re going to vote for the other candidate.

    • Gerry Fisher

      You can have a poll watcher “challenge” you as you attempt to check in at the desk before voting. People are warned that, if this happens, get the name/picture of the challenger, and be sure to go ahead and vote anyway (don’t just walk away because they made a fuss). Then, later, if the challenge is successful–if you are not a valid voter–then your vote is disqualified.

      I’m pretty sure that’s how it’s supposed to work. The problem is that some voters and poll workers get flustered and the voter walks away without voting.

  • cleos_mom

    While corruption exists anywhere you care to look plus everywhere you don’t — and always has — “rigged” has become a dog whistle for “I didn’t get a pony and all the ice cream I could eat for my birfday.”

    For those who are channeling the 19th century in their fantasies of how such would go down — I know a boat you can get on. A very slow one.

    • TSS

      The kind of voter fraud which Republicans talk about – dead people voting, etc. – is extremely rare. You’re more likely to get struck by lightning than to encounter voter fraud.

    • Robincho

      Would that be the slow boat to Jina?…

    • LackofFaithify

      Still waiting on that pony…

  • Blake Jordan

    If he disputes the result, he can move in with daddy putin in russia!!!

    • cleos_mom

      Vlad must be getting rather bored with Eddie Snowden by now.

      • Mark

        Putin likes that extra cushion for the pushin.

  • j.martindale

    That is a terrific idea! Now, not only will we begin the campaign to nominate the Presidential candidates for the 2020 election on November 9th, we can also relitigate the 2016 election for four years! Oh, the FUN!

  • Mikey

    A lot of these people believe incredibly stupid things because, amazingly, a lot of these people really are not intelligent enough to reason through the evidence and the claims and discard impossibilities or extremely unlikely scenarios.
    This is why conspiracy theories continue to propagate. People are unable to think critically.

    • cleos_mom

      Most conspiracy theories I’ve heard depend heavily on vast numbers of people keeping a secret. And in the true meaning of ‘keeping a secret’ not the familiar ‘I won’t tell anyone other than my BFFs’ rule.

      The most intriguing so far has been the idea that Osama bin Laden never existed; he was a hoax that “they” concocted. Never did figure out which They the They are (are They the They who broke into Bubba Slattery’s house last week or is it the They who stole Gertrude Tusselfuck’s laundry from the laundromat?). The number of people who would have to keep totally mum about such a secret would be in five figures, at least.

      • Reality.Bites

        If it were true that he was a hoax, it would also be true that he was either a hoax perpetrated by the Bush administration or a hoax that the Bush administration fell for.

        Either way, the Obama administration, in “killing” the hoax, would have been doing a great service to the reputation of the Bush administration by covering up their treason or their stupidity.

    • petewestcentral

      Unable, maybe, but I have to butt in and say “unwilling.” One time I cornered a Trumper guy with facts and he yelled at me, “I am entitled to my opinions!” He was not a genius but he knew right from wrong and it pissed him off to be called on it.

  • Mark

    Somebody give Trump a flute…and see if his ‘followers’ all head for Russia….

  • Sam_Handwich

    any “challenges” would have to arise on a state by state basis.

    most of the key swing states in this election have republican governors and sec’s of state.

    trump’s just a fuckin loser.

  • Gustav2

    “41 percent say it will be voters casting a ballot in the wrong location”

    If you walk into the wrong precinct, your name is not in the book/list.

    Do these people not understand what they do when they vote? Do they just let people walk in the door and vote in some states or do they check the list, have you sign it, then let you vote?

    • lymis

      Similarly, at least where I live, you have to have some indication you are who you say you are. That’s valid ID, or things like a current utility bill or student ID in the name and for the address listed in the book. No, it doesn’t need to be government issued ID, but you at least have to know who you’re saying you are.

      So, while it’s possible you could pass yourself off as your recently deceased twin brother who shared your address, going much further than that gets pretty tricky. And it’s not something people are going to be able to do wholesale.

    • Stubenville

      Either they don’t vote often enough to understand the procedure, or it’s willful ignorance (lying.)

    • bkmn

      They are children having a tantrum. You don’t indulge children throwing a tantrum or they throw more tantrums.

      • kareemachan

        You make them sit in the Naughty Chair. For as long as it takes.

      • Nic Peterson

        Trumpertantrums. Can’t wait for the Calvary (cavalcade?) of Jazzy Scooters, pitchforks at the ready.

    • canoebum

      The so-called “voter fraud” fable is just that, a fable. The GOP and the Deplorables are just using it as a convenient lie. They’re fighting a losing battle against demographics, which are not in their favor, and will use any dirty trick or lie available.

      • Steverino

        Yes, and many more people, even many deplorables, would not vote for the shit they actually support and represent (the privileges of the 1%), but they do because they mask their real motives with phony issues and god, guns, and gays.

    • Jerry

      They generally have to let them vote, but challenge the ballot if the person is not on the list…it’s different in each state. Some states, even if they voted in the wrong precinct, will count the ballot, eventually, as long as they didn’t vote elsewhere. Most places, however, will not count the challenged ballot if you voted in the wrong place…with exceptions, such as you are a poll worker working in a different precinct from where you’re registered.

  • Bless their little hearts.

  • AndyinChicago

    Trump supporters keep comparing this to Al Gore, but Gore had a legitimate concern. Without any evidence of any wrong-doing, if a quarter of your followers want you to make a ruckus, we’re in a dire situation. That just means a quarter of your followers want you to make trouble for democracy. Which means at least a quarter of Trump supporters fit into that basket.

    • Sam_Handwich

      it’s difficult to lay most of that in Gore’s lap. the recount in FL was triggered automatically by state law. and then republicans challenged its legality.

      • Ore Carmi

        I’m still super sore about the 2000 election. (And 2004.) In my understanding, there WAS election rigging in both those presidential elections, but it was mainly perpetrated top-down via tampering with unsecure electronic voting systems, and through voter disenfranchisement.

    • kareemachan

      But it’s evolving from “democracy” these days to “deMEcracy”. Only my wants matter and screw the rest of ya.

  • lymis

    They’re also conflating different questions.

    I absolutely believe that a candidate should accept the results. But the mechanism for getting those results already includes things like recounts in close districts, lodging complaints in the face of apparent fraud or misdeed, and so on.

    Of course the mechanism should play out as required, including any mandatory recounts.

    It’s the presumption that “If I lose, it means they cheated” and “If I lose big, it means they cheated even bigger” that can’t be tolerated. Merely losing is not an indication that someone cheated. An indication that someone cheated is.

  • chris james

    For some of these Trumpnuts just having Hillary Clinton’s name on the ballot is intimidation enough.

  • SockMikey

    The biggest example of “voter fraud” is gerrymandering of districts and changing voter laws to suppress turnout, reduce early voting and disenfranchise minorities and other groups.

    • canoebum

      That is “election fraud”, an official policy practiced by the GOP. They’re attempts to hide it behind the (nearly) non-existent “voter fraud” is finally being exposed as the scam it always has been.

    • Gerry Fisher

      Tell that to the knuckle draggers

  • Stubenville

    OT but related:

    The Shrieking Cheeto continues to drop in the polls. NYT this morning:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/04bca12ccceb77847e5c350cc48a43907a35aa2ffebf828f815c8594f391e502.jpg

  • Buford

    It’s not that hard. In the last debate, Trump suggested that the election and the entire system is ‘rigged’… then he stated that Hillary should be disqualified from even running due to her ‘crimes’… and then he TWICE refused to commit to accepting the results of the election.

    He’s paving the way for years of potentially-violent pushback against a Clinton administration… and that’s a real problem. He sees dollar signs, while the rest of us see armed whackos making America a very scary place to live.

    • canoebum

      Please do not discount the very real possibility of Der Herr ending up in prison in New York State. His Trump Foundation malfeasance could result in felony charges being filed very soon. If convicted of fraud, he could be forced to repay all the money (which will break him) or land him prison, or both.

      • Stubenville

        I like both.

      • Buford

        I wish, but it’ll never happen. Hell, the Trump Foundation shenanigans should technically lead to criminal prosecution… but that’ll never happen, either.

        • canoebum

          Don’t be so sure. Eric Schniederman is no fan of The Donald. Putting Trump on trial would raise his profile considerably. He already has a reputation for going after white collar crime and corruption; a Trump prosecution would only serve his interest in running for Governor in the future. Not that such charges would be politically motivated, I’m sure there is ample evidence to be discovered, but it wouldn’t hurt the Attorney General either.

    • petewestcentral

      What else is there going to be, but lots of nasty pushback from the 24-percenters.

  • Sam_Handwich

    fyi

    A number of popular sites and services are down right now for many users, including Twitter, SoundCloud, Spotify and Shopify. The cause appears to be a sweeping outage of DNS provider Dyn, as a result of a DDOS attack, according to a post on Hacker News. …. Dyn says that the DDOS attack affecting its customers is mostly impacting the U.S. East coast

    https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/21/many-sites-including-twitter-and-spotify-suffering-outage/

    • Ore Carmi

      Thanks for sharing this! Novice question: what do DDOS attackers gain from the attack? What is the attack for?

      • Stubenville

        A partial answer; the motivation is similar to the reason some people unleash viruses on the world; self aggrandisement. There are also people/groups who use DDOS attacks to punish sites which publish information they disagree with.

        • Ore Carmi

          Thank you!

      • JustSayin’

        While Stubenville is right in his partial answer there are more nefarious outcomes. The first and most obvious is that financial markets can be affected. More difficult and technical to understand is the DYN is a major DNS provider and one of the possible reasons is that some host or institution under its umbrella, a company without a backup plan, is the real target.

        Some types of hacks require a reset of the hardware to be done, much like some trojans and rootkits on a PC need you to reboot the pc before the hack will let the bad guys in.

        The typical plan to stop a DDoS attack is to shut down the device being targeted and in some cases other servers behind that device. You then wait for the packet storm to cease because the upstream providers have isolated the devices sending the storm.

        A major DDoS attack is a perfect cover to trick sys admins to shut down during the storm and when the reboot happens the hack is written to the device code and becomes a permanent access point to the targeted system.

        Please note it is much more complicated, this is just a high level description of one potential reason. For this too be successful a whole lot of other factors must be met and right now there is no way to tell what they are and if they happened.

        • Ore Carmi

          Thank you for this!

  • greenmanTN

    Trump was the catalyst, but he isn’t going to be the direct problem on Election Day. It’s classic Frankenstein- just because you create something doesn’t mean you can control it.

    • Reality.Bites

      Making him both doctor and monster, in that the Republican Party thought they could control him.

      Here’s a crazy conspiracy theory of my own – I predict that following the loss some will advance the theory that Republicans never wanted Trump, that he was only chosen as nominee thanks to voter fraud by Democrats.

      Which, if you think about it, would be a far more logical reason for him to be nominee than people having chosen them of their free will.

      Vote Saxon!

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSv9nEEye7U&spfreload=10

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0RvDZFN71A&spfreload=10

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbb56jZo0rE&spfreload=10

      • Stubenville

        You can bet the weary trope “He wasn’t conservative enough” will be dragged out, too.

        • The_Wretched

          you have to wonder what would be ‘conservative enough’
          Rush Limbaugh floating around as Barron Harkonnen?

      • greenmanTN

        You’re right. It’s two degrees of Frankenstein!

        (I digress, as usual) Have you ever seen Frankenstein: The True Story?

        Christopher Isherwood wrote the script and if there were any more gay subtext the Village People would be in it.

        https://youtu.be/fx83SjnHxBo

  • Frostbite

    There doesn’t have to be voter fraud, the popular vote doesn’t directly elect the president anyway, electoral votes do.

  • Henry Auvil

    So we finally have an accurate count of The Deplorables: 24%.

    • Mark Neé Fuzz

      Naw, that’s just the percentage of “deplorablests”, the worst of the deplorables. The total deplorable count is still higher.

      • Ross

        At this point, anybody supporting Donnie = Deplorable.

  • Mark Neé Fuzz

    Will that 24% take to the streets with torches and pitchforks? You know, engaging in Alinsky tactics?

  • Skeptical_Inquirer

    The GOP, if it wants to survive as something other than a terrorist white nationalist party, needs to stomp down hard on this and not their current milquetoast mouth noises. Seriously, why the fuck should Democratic voters not contest GOP candidates all over the place? They need to know this shit can go both ways.

    Also, Trumpeteers who buy into this . .. I’m going to take their advice and say “Fuck their feelings.” I’m tired of their stupid freaking entitled hurt fee-fees that make them think that nobody else’s vote/lives/ problems matter. I’m tired of them using buzz words like freedom and Constitution but secretly or not so secretly pining for an apartheid state.

    • kareemachan

      But…but…but Reibus did send out a weak, milquetoastesque email. Wasn’t that enough?

      ETA: When I (gag) went on Breitbart yesterday, the main buzzword I saw trending was “globalist”. Remember the good ol’ days when everybody was just a commie or fascist or anti-territorialist?

  • Mark

    9 November. I have very grave concerns what may happen.

  • Tom000

    The President is actually chosen by the Electoral College made up of electors selected by each state’s legislatures, so Trump can’t actually “not accept the election results.” In 2000, Bush didn’t challenge the election results, he challenged the State of Florida.

    (For you conspiracy theorists, there are 3,143 independent Board of Elections in the United States overseen by 50 Secretaries of State. Have to be pretty damn efficient to rig that.)

    • TrollopeReader

      about 40% of Americans have zero conception of what you wrote, and will be led by a maniac who doesn’t either … sadly.

      • kareemachan

        Sadly upfisted.

  • Treant

    Many of the swing states have a Republican as either governor or major election official (per electoral-vote.com). So challenges are going to be interesting, difficult, and laughed at.

    Of the states where Dems control both positions…most are solid blue wall states anyway!

  • Jeffrey

    I have never seen an election where one party was so focused on their own loss this far before the election. Isn’t Trump embarrassed to keep having to answer the question of what he’s going to do when he loses? If he would just say “Ill take whatever the people want” then it would be over. But no, he has to let his Id continue to run the show.

  • Robert Adams

    The Constitution is very specific about how the President is to be elected. Nowhere in the Constitution does it mandate that the loser must “accept” the results of the election. So, if Trump decides not to “accept” the results it won’t make a whit of difference. Power will be peacefully transferred from Obama to Clinton.

    (By the way, per the Constitution, the Supreme Court is not permitted to get involved. And don’t blame Gore. It was Bush who sued! So the one rigged election for President we have had was rigged by the GOP.)

  • Hank
  • Jean-Marc in Canada

    The thing Trump and his slags don’t get is, what happens to all the other contests? Say Hillary wins, but many GOP house and senate seats, for the sake of argument, stay or become GOP? Then what? How do you square that circle? If the top ticket is “rigged”, how then can the down ballots be “legitimate?” Someone hasn’t thought this through…..oh wait…..I used the word “thought” in relation to Trump, bahahahahahahahahaha

  • Raising_Rlyeh

    Vother fraud is like god in that a large part of the population believes it exists even with all the evidence to the contrary