BRUUUUUUCE: America Is Under Siege By A Moron

“The republic is under siege by a moron, basically. The whole thing is tragic. Without overstating it, it’s a tragedy for our democracy. When you start talking about elections being rigged, you’re pushing people beyond democratic governance. And it’s a very, very dangerous thing to do. Once you let those genies out of the bottle, they don’t go back in so easy, if they go back in at all. The ideas he’s moving to the mainstream are all very dangerous ideas – white nationalism and the alt-right movement. The outrageous things that he’s done – not immediately disavowing David Duke? These are things that are obviously beyond the pale for any previous political candidate. It would sink your candidacy immediately.

“I believe that there’s a price being paid for not addressing the real cost of the deindustrialization and globalization that has occurred in the United States for the past 35, 40 years, and how it’s deeply affected people’s lives and deeply hurt people to where they want someone who says they have a solution. And Trump’s thing is simple answers to very complex problems. Fallacious answers to very complex problems. And that can be very appealing.” – Bruce Springsteen, speaking to Rolling Stone.

  • Lazycrockett
  • bkmn

    The Boss knows. Listen to the Boss.

  • Friday

    Da Bawss.

    Not just one moron, though: our battle is against moronicalism itself.

    And these guys:

    http://www.politicalresearch.org/2016/08/18/dominionism-rising-a-theocratic-movement-hiding-in-plain-sight/

    • Chucktech

      I dunno, I’m cautiously, perhaps naively optimistic that religion in general (and certainly Christianity in particular) in the US is in the initial stages of being taken down a rung or two on their ladder of entitlement and privilege. It has a long, long way to go, to be sure, but I really think it’s just beginning to wane a little bit.

      • Friday

        The problem is the authoritarian monotheists would usually rather make a colossal mess *than* ‘go down a rung or two.’ You may notice other forms of religion haven’t tried to climb there in the first place.

      • David Walker

        Who’s next? Latina (sorry…don’t know the plural)? The hatred toward us was fueled by the need for Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts and others to continue to make money after they couldn’t use the race card. We became the easiest bogey people because fags never fought back. Now that we have, people are starting to have doubts. But some people absolutely need someone to hate, to feel better than, and we aren’t the assured money makers anymore. I think Drumpf has started the next trend for The Truly Religious…find the verses in the bible about hating immigrants, being suspicious of foreigners, and being afraid of “people whose skin is a different shade” (although the US has never had a problem with that). The idea is to make lots of money without working hard and to tie hate and fear somehow to the bible. Pablo Cruise assured us that “love will find a way.” So does hate.

      • Friday

        (also, no, I don’t think going after ‘religion in general’ is any more helpful in dealing with right-wing authoritarian versions of certain ones than it would be to use the specific dogwhistle phrasing about Islamic terrorists would, either: in fact setting up the ‘conflict’ on *those* lines in both cases is manifestly what the *bad guys want.* )

        • CottonBlimp

          I don’t think going after ‘religion in general’ is… helpful

          That’s what people said about Hitchens. Now America is less religious than ever before and, by amazing coincidence, more supportive of gay rights than ever before.

          I understand why people might want to focus more on the short term political issues more than the general abstract theological question, but reducing religiosity in America has a huge swath of positive effects, and by not taking on that battle, we’re dooming ourselves to be fighting religion on a million issues for the rest of time.

          • Friday

            Hitchens, too, seemed to accept the Christian/Muslim/Jewish idea that “All religion is just as bad,” then just claim “Not enough people have been converted to Atheism, cause it’d be different this time.”

            Your argument is with *certain forms* of religion. Forcing people to pick your ‘one true way’ over another is just an equation for more of the usual. Always has been.

            Support for LGBT rights in fact is most solid *outside American Christianity in particular* actually. As much as they and Atheists claim otherwise, you’re arguing with *a* religion, not *all* religion.

          • CottonBlimp

            Your argument is with *certain forms* of religion.

            All religion teaches that feelings supersede factual evidence, which makes all religion impervious to reasoned dialogue, even when that religion is making the faith-based case for something you support.

            Besides which, you’re talking bullshit. How many liberal churches supported gay rights or gay marriage before the late 2000s? I grew up in a super-lefty Episcopalian church, so I know what I’m talking about here. The liberal churches didn’t support gay rights beyond “hey, Jesus said we probably shouldn’t murder those hopeless, broken, deluded sinners. We should sympathize with them like we would a drug addict,” at least not until the late 2000s. So what happened around that time? Oh, right, massive numbers of people were leaving their churches.

            What I can’t stand about people who take the position you do is that you’re lucky to live in a secular society with a comparable amount of freedom, all of which was won through the hard-fought thousand year long battle against the controlling hand of the church, and you somehow come to conclusion that the freedom from religion you enjoy came from some enlightenment within the church.

            Support for LGBT rights in fact is most solid *outside American Christianity in particular* actually.

            Oh yeah, gay rights has a lot of support in Islam, Orthodox Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, African Anglicanism, Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Catholicism…

  • cleos_mom

    There’s a price being paid for the idiocy of the 1980 election. Donald Trump and the B of Ds didn’t come out of nowhere.

    Consequences of elections, especially when the Moron Community troops out, can last for decades. And get worse over time, like those de facto science experiments a lot of us have going on in our refrigerators.

    • BobSF_94117

      The future was visible in the 1970s. The reliance on oil? A problem. The stubborn refusal to retool for a metric world? A huge mistake. The degradation of the natural world combined with a need to raise 2/3s of the human population out of poverty? An enormous challenge.

      And we made our choices…

      • William

        Dick Cheney, during the Ford administration, is the one who killed research into alternative energy.

      • tominsf

        It was Reagan, starting when he came into office in 1981, who killed metrification, reversing the gains of the Carter administration.

        • BobSF_94117

          I’m convince the whole thing was a conspiracy on the part of American industry who, facing the prospect of funding the construction of factories in Mexico and Canada and CHINA, didn’t want to spend money on American plants. They put the country at a long-term disadvantage to benefit their short-term goals.

          • The factories weren’t being built in Canada.

        • Niblet58

          Yep, changed my whole fucking life. I was a grad with a degree in environmental econ, natural resources. I researched alternative energy sources, solar, wave, etc back in the late 70’s. If we had continued with that research and development we would have been off all fossil fuels decades ago but nooooooo Ronnie Raygun and his oil pals just squashed every bit of funding for it and I lost my career with in a month,
          I had never voted for a GOPper and vowed I would never vote for one again as long as I lived.

          • William

            They said it would take FIFTEEN YEARS for alternative energy to be viable. That was much too far into the future to work towards.

          • Snarkaholic

            Back in the early 70s, one of my father’s co-workers bought a new car (I forget what kind). After driving it for several days and noticing that the gas gauge still read “FULL”, he concluded that it was broken and took it back to the dealership…
            …where he found out that it was an experimental prototype (that had accidentally been shipped from the factory)…
            …and that got 70 miles per gallon! The dealership took the car back (despite his protests) and let him trade in for a new car every year for the next ten years…so the technology does/did exist…but the greedy fucking GOP and their minions refuse to share.

        • Friday

          Fact is the way they tried to force ‘metrification’ is probably an unacknowledged source of the resentment of ‘Big Government’ Reagan ran against. It was really just terribly-handled, and too many other problems prevented it even being done thoroughly when they did try it.

          • tominsf

            I was in my twenties at the time and have a good recollection of the “forcing” you’re complaining about. So far as its effect on the general public went, mostly it involved adding kilometers to road signs and the institution of the liter soda bottle. This Big Government narrative is the invention of the usual collection of demagogues. It’s Big Government that ensures that the roads those signs are on are four-lane and paved rather than single-track and dirt.

          • Friday

            The ‘Big Government’ narrative is certainly an invention, but the whole botched metric conversion was actually one of the day to day things that was *screwed up to make that seem real and plausible.* I mean, no one cared about a liter soda bottle, that was fine. You buy that, there’s a liter. That’s what a liter is. I don’t need to put two cups of it in Grandma’s recipe. A liter of *milk,* whole different story. )

            A lot of the stuff that *didn’t* stick was for a reason, including the (extremely flawed even scientifically or engieeringwise) 55 mile an hour speed limit: trying to impose metric on daily life in schools before really selling it, (Asking a strapped automotive industry to retool all the fasteners and tools just when they were deservedly getting their arses kicked over important things they didn’t want to change either was no good either: they should have taught it as how to do science, not made everyone wonder why their speedometer is illegible and only goes up to 85 these days.)

      • Friday

        (Actually the metric thing was stupid, at least in approach, especially since they decided to pretty much *start* by inconveniencing regular people. Metric is best for science and very large and very small numbers, only means hassle in the trades, though. (The reason the old ways are based on twelve is cause you can easily divide everything by 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6. Actually better for human-scale work, ) “Everyone buy new tools at *once*” wasn’t the best move either, not that buying more tools is something *that* hard to make some folks want to do. 🙂

        I was in elementary school when they tried it, and it was very badly handled even on that level. Not to mention the timing was *horrible* when in fact “foreign” stuff was seen as a threat to everything manufacturing already, now someone wants to say you can’t use Ma’s measuring cups or Da’s tools? Frankly it would have worked better if they did science education (which still existed then) in metric and simply *waited* about the rest.

        • BobSF_94117

          America goofed. Canada got it right. Cold turkey.

          The reality is that the failure to convert left American industry at a distinct disadvantage in selling to the developing world. We’re almost all by ourselves now with our incomprehensible units.

          • Friday

            Canada was dealing with a day-to-day inconvenient *Imperial* measurement. Very different from SAE etc.

          • Friday

            Also, nah, computers made ‘incomprehensible units’ obsolete if people had even just waited a few years here: in fact the problem had a lot to do with suddenly needing a pocket calculator for tasks you didn’t used to cause analog is *human scale,* digital is *for everything else.*

            As for machine tools and specs, say, the US auto industry went metric when they damn well felt like it. (Actually after an abortive attempt by GM to just create proprietary fasteners only their mechanics could even have, later licensed by Sears: decades later, now we call em t-25 or t-20/ whatever bits. (After everyone outside US patent law that felt like it used em for their own purposes, I might add: kind of like the Philips Head. The Philips radio company might have done better open-sourcing em.) Anyway, I want my wrench to *fit,* I don’t care how many trillion lithium atoms across it is. In carpentry, I want a tangible quantity like a quarter or an eighth or a sixteenth of an inch, not guessing at the nearest millimeter.

            “Cold Turkey” is one of those pat ideas that doesn’t even work for actual *addictions* a significant percentage of the time. Sure doesn’t help the next try when it doesn’t.

        • BobSF_94117

          And the timing was actually perfect… or would have been. New manufacturing techniques and the beginning of robotics, right at the cusp of an explosion in international trade.

          • Friday

            The timing was *horrendous* just for that reason. All that stuff and ‘foreign things’ was exactly what was supposed to be putting us out of *jobs.* Teach it in math and science, use it for that, don’t go after freaking *carpentry* and *cooking* and stuff. 🙂

          • BobSF_94117

            Spend some time on an American construction site and watch them struggle with computations.

          • Friday

            Point? They tried to convert to metric in all the wrong damn *places.* We were still doing science and astronomy in Fahrenheit and miles at the time, never mind engineering and architecture. Caused more people to throw up their hands than learn either system, actually.

    • Joseph Miceli

      While Reagan has a LOT to answer for, I think the de-evolution of our politics to this level of stupidity really started with Newt Gingrich. While there were some seriously disrespectful quips between candidates, the level of infantile venom skyrocketed during Newt’s tenure as Speaker of the House. He deliberately pushed an Orwellian agenda to make “liberal” the equivalent of “child molester” and baseless character assassination and lies an everyday part of political discourse. Newt …to me …is right up there with Dick Cheney.

    • William

      I truly believe that along with making people lumpy, High Fructose Corn Syrup makes people stupid. It was unleashed onto the soft drink market in 1985.

    • canoebum

      I said at the time it would take 100 years to undo the damage Reagan would do to the country. Sadly, it seems I’m being proven right.

  • Giant Meteor 2016. I hope it flattens Republican National Committee Headquarters.

    • Ross

      …during a really really REALLY big meeting.

  • YakHerder

    Right on, Bruce! (And what a fucking wake-up call to Clinton and the Democrats: “The globalized-capital agenda, which you guys have pushed and pushed, has screwed over working-class people in this country—and you’ve given them nothing. So you’d better start giving them something, because the other guy is just straight-up giving ’em racism.”)

    • Dramphooey

      I’m impressed. He really nailed it.

      • J Ascher

        Springsteen has had practice. He had to ask Reagan not to use Born in the USA because Reagan’s campaign didn’t understand the song isn’t homage to the American economy.

    • Friday

      You act as if we weren’t ‘given enough’ because of Obama when the Republicans have been blocking almost-literally *everything* and monkeying procedure to do it. Pure obstructionism.

      • Gerry Fisher

        This is mainly a failure to relate and communicate, starting with the Bill Clinton administration. This Congress has blocked LGBT legislation, but that hasn’t stopped Obama/Hillary Clinton from speaking to us and about us in emotionally compelling and appealing and “he GETS us!” ways.

      • CottonBlimp

        This isn’t really about Obama, it goes back to Clinton 1 signing NAFTA, gutting welfare, and exploding the police state. Democrats abandoned the working class and the labor movement to pander more to the middle class, which, strategically, at least made sense back when the middle class was growing, but now…

        • Friday

          Clinton was always considered a ‘Conservative Democrat.’ You’d have to compare him to a second Bush Sr+maybe a Newt GIngrich Contract On America term to really be talking realpolitik of the 90’s.

    • GayOldLady

      As Bruce said it is a complicated problem. We must have trade agreements because the population of the U.S. only makes up 5% of the world population and we cannot become isolationist in our trade practices. We can’t abandon our Trade agreements and if we did we would be the most adversely effected by that decision. We can’t bring back the coal industry because it has been squashed by natural gas, not by outsourcing. We can help the steel industry, by regulating China’s steel into the the U.S. and making sure their product is on a par with our product. If we do that we win. But some of the industrial jobs will never come back because they’ve left forever due to automation and wage issues. What we can do is rededicate ourselves to building the Industries of the Future, industries that can’t leave. As Hillary has been saying for over a year. Solar & Wind will be a good start to reestablishing ourselves as an industrialized nation. Rebuilding our infrastructure and keeping that infrastructure maintained to the highest standard will create jobs that will never go away. And finally revisiting our trade agreements to see where we can renegotiate changes that will help our workers. Donald Trump has no plan to do anything but shoot off his big mouth.

      • David Walker

        I’ve been touring the world by train thanks to YouTube. They have videos with a camera in the cab, so you get a straight-ahead view of the country. Something I’ve noticed is the number of wind turbines, particularly in Europe. You’re bippity-bopping along and suddenly you see this very high thing with three propellers rather slowly turning in the breeze. And the number of them: maybe one here and one there, and then you see what can only be described as a wind turbine farm. And acres of solar panels…less common than the wind thingies, but they’re in use. I guess we’ll change when the “new technology” becomes profitable. It’s inspiring and discouraging to see those “windmills.” Inspiring to see that natural energy sources are being used; but it’s so discouraging that the US, which still thinks of itself as the world’s leader, falls farther and farther behind in everything except in the percentage of its citizens behind bars, the defense budget, and the number of people who believe in angels.

        • zhera

          I’m not too crazy about wind turbins. They wreck havoc on bird population and nobody wants them in their ‘backyard’.
          Here on the coast of Norway we have plenty of wind, but do we really want to destroy the nature with those massive things? Roads, construction, transport… it doesn’t belong in areas that either are or should be protected.

          • CanuckDon

            I’ve always been one for natural energy sources but have to agree about the wind turbines. Driving along the Lake Huron coast and seeing them here and there on farmland really makes you wonder just how effective they really are. It would be nice if they could come up with different structures placed on top of high rises for catching the wind…like a large whirlybird that ventilates an attic.

          • jmax

            Wind turbines are very common in Kansas. We have a wind farm just west of where I live that covers over 20,000 acres and produces over 250 MW of electricity which is delivered as far away as Springfield, MO. Pretty impressive.

          • Bryan

            Growing up one of my earliest memories living in Brentwood was the drive over into Antioch and Livermore and seeing the hills of wind turbines along the way. I dunno how many per capita compared to other places but they were speckled all over the hills. It was pretty to me.

          • jmax

            I-70 in western Kansas passes a hundred yards or so by a couple of wind farms. The size of the turbines and blades when you are that close is awesome.

          • zhera

            I’m no expert, but I think it’s like this: The turbin needs electricity to start up. Then the wind takes over and the centrifugal force makes it continue. They look slow because they’re so enormous, they can get quite fast! (Hence the bird killing.)

          • David Walker

            Interesting. I’ve heard of the bird kills, but I’d assumed that was when mountains were involved. I can see that flat lands could also be affected. We have NIMBYs (not in my backyard) people, too, and they have a point. I find the structures both graceful and impressive, but that’s me. The president after FDR, Harry Truman, was known for his less-than-polite vocabulary. There’s a story that he once used the word “manure” in a speech. One of his wife’s friends begged Bess to make Harry stop using “manure” in his speeches. Allegedly, Bess replied that it took her 20 years to get him to say “manure.” What is Norway’s traditional power generation? Coal? Hydro? We will have to change eventually, kicking and screaming and it will take time, and protected areas MUST remain protected, but this new power generation has to be tried.

            OT: Have you heard anything from the world travelers yet?

          • zhera

            Have not heard from them; I assume they’re busy getting to a shelter/safe area.

            The problem is that it’s the predator birds that are killed, like eagles. They’re already low in numbers (though it’s gotten better). I guess it’s because they attack from above, and that they get a bit of ‘tunnel vision’ while hunting? Only speculating here.
            Anyway, yes, it’s a bit of a ‘want it but don’t want it HERE’ attitude. In Norway we’ve been blessed with waterfalls, so we’re running on water. Which also do a lot of damage to nature. There seems to be no perfect energy source. 🙁

            I have hopes for solar energy. Panels can be put up all over the roofs and walls in cities, hell even roads can be solar panels.

          • David Walker

            I’ve read about roads as solar panels. What a great idea. Unfortunately, I think you’re right…there seems to be no perfect energy source. But I do like the solar idea.

          • zhera

            I think the road panels could even charge an electric car driving on it.

          • HKDaniel

            Oh, please. Birds are stupid, they fly into things and die, it matters not at all that its a wind turbine, just that it’s there. Far more get killed flying into radio and cell towers to say nothing of the orders of magnitude more that are killed by pets.

            There’s always going to be NIMBY for anything, life’s a bitch, get over it.

          • Friday

            Well, they’re not *stupid,* they just may not know what they’re *seeing.* (Obviously the solution is to alter their appearance or some other aspect so they can recognize and avoid them) Animals do learn: they adapted to *cars and highways* to large degrees after all. And that’s a lot better than they can adapt to sudden Jurassic conditions without the plants or something. )

            Honestly we passed the point of being able to be *too* picky in 2003. They’ve been saying “This isn’t perfect, burn more coal and uranium instead” though since the Seventies. And that’s why it’s too late to be *that* picky, even if we of course *can* make things better if we… do it.

          • The_Wretched

            You know what kills birds? Cats. Next on the list is habitat loss. Turbines is not.

          • zhera

            Never said that wind turbins kill the most birds.

            They are however a problem with predator birds like eagles. And yes, putting wind turbins up in their habitat kills them.

          • Friday

            The ‘havoc’ is kind of imaginary, and apart from that there must bean engineering solution, roadkill sure ain’t getting any less from *cars* or other-kinds-of-kill from pure pollution. Comparison shop and improve. Otherwise it’s just an excuse.

        • JCF

          Drive across I-80 through Wyoming (I last did so in 2010): there’s a TON of wind turbines on it now. [You’d love to think the green energy people would at least begin to turn the state purple, but oy vey, change is slow in that part of the world…]

    • Gerry Fisher

      Secretary Clinton’s almost complete inability to speak to this point in emotionally compelling ways (“we’ll offer green energy jobs!”) is one of the biggest disappointments in her campaign. She’s failed to pivot post Bernie. I hope they’re coaching her on how to answer “the economy” questions better in upcoming debates.

      • Friday

        When Obama was ’emotionally compeling’ they claimed he was some kind of fascist. When a woman is just as smart she’s between being called ‘shrill and emotionalist’ and ‘cold and bitchy.’ Who the fuck do you *want?* Find them.

    • CottonBlimp

      So you’d better start giving them something

      Nahhh, let’s just keep trashing Sanders.

      I’m sure if we just keep insulting the people complaining about low wages, high tuition, unaffordable housing, lack of environmental regulation, and the perpetual dismantling of welfare that all those voters will realize they just don’t need houses, money, food, or clean water.

      • Friday

        Sanders again? Seriously, on policy he was only ever slightly different than Clinton, the rest is Trump and Sanders’ own negative campaigning, rather than Sanders actually *selling* a progressive message of any kind, (never mind how he proposed to bring it about by trashing anyone but Republicans in the legislative branch: ) never mind a more-progressive one.

        Stirring up disaffection is not of itself something that suddenly makes smart things happen when the bad guys already *own* what you need to even make a start on things. Even if you won.

  • Reality.Bites

    Bruce 2020!

    He’s the perfect candidate – a real progressive who lots of stupid people think is a conservative wingnut because they don’t listen to lyrics.

    • Dramphooey

      Right now I’d have rather seen him confront Pence.

    • Chucktech

      “Way-el, yew just sing out thayer, Boss, “Bo-wern in the Yoo S A-yee.”

  • barrixines
    • WTF? I know the lower house gets it’s share of loons, but whaaaa?

      • barrixines

        This is the UKIP leadership battle – that’s the potential new leader on the floor with internal bleeding after being punched by another UKIP MEP:

        • William

          I thought this sort of thing only happens in Taiwan.

          • barrixines

            The fascists won in the UK. They took their country back – this is what it looks like.

          • Niblet58

            Edward the 8th would be proud….

          • BobSF_94117

            You should watch the S. Korean parliament.

        • Brianna Amoré

          DAYUM! That’s one powerful punch.

          • barrixines

            I kid you not the guy who threw it is called Hookem.

    • SoCalGal20

      I heard about a UKIP MEP being hurt during a meeting or something but being twitter there weren’t details. Yikes!

  • Thanks, Bruce, but it’s been 50 years of this – and the moron has plenty of company. Other than that – you’ve repeated basically everything I’ve been saying for 30 years.

  • Johnny Wyeknot

    Thank you Bruce! I continue you love as I have since I first saw you in DC way back in the early 1970’s. ❤️️

  • Pollos Hermanos
    • joeyj1220

      my teenage gay awakening was to this video

      • Todd20036

        I was pre-gay, but yeah, he was very hot.
        Still don’t get a vibe from him tho

      • Joseph Miceli

        Mine was to the movie “Pumping Iron” with Arnold. I still have a slight bodybuilder problem.

        • jsmukg

          [email protected]’slight bodybuilder problem!’
          You know what steroids do to the family jewels…

          • Joseph Miceli

            Good thing I’m an ass man. Put the big guy in a jockstrap and I’m fine.

    • Todd20036

      He’s aged VERY well.

    • motordog
      • Ray Butlers

        Looking a little like Lou Reed

    • BudClark

      I wanna be the crotch in his Levis.

  • MikeBx2

    Bruce is right, of course, and we need him and others to articulate this on every platform they can over the next few weeks. I’m certain Clinton will win but without a crushing defeat, we’ll just go through it all again in 4 years. Repubs will come up with another Trump, though I wouldn’t be surprised if that narcissist tried again himself.

    • bambinoitaliano

      Trump wished he never had enter the race after the crushing defeat this November. The media will not be beholden to him and they will continue to milk his infamy by digging into his shady past.

      • BudClark

        How did a crook with THAT much baggage expect to pass even the most cursory vetting? By shouting down his critics?

        • bambinoitaliano

          He is shielded by special interest group and the media who are cashing in on his headline generating revenue.

  • Blake J Butler

    O/T: Undecided woman with disabled daughter that was attacked by Trump supporters at his rally, refuses to vote for Trump after confrontation with his supporters.

    http://addictinginfo.org/2016/10/06/watch-trumps-deplorable-fans-attack-mom-and-her-disabled-daughter-for-leaving-rally/

    • Jerry

      Next they’ll be attacking babies…oh, wait….

      • Blake J Butler

        Kids hate him, babies hate him, and even bald eagles hate him.

        • SoCalGal20
          • The_Wretched

            It’s reasonable to get startled sometimes but Trump seems especially easy to tweak and he stays freaked for several seconds. I’d never get in a car with him driving. He freaked when the black lady pastor approached him on stage a few weeks back too.

          • SoCalGal20

            I bet he’s the worst driver. I wonder if he’s ever driven before?

          • JCF

            That bird has more sense than about 40% of the electorate. * }-X

            * Hopefully no more than 40%!

      • Reality.Bites

        Things like this are why I am looking forward to the town hall-style debate.

    • Stubenville

      Commercials with Trump using vulgarities and mocking the disabled reporter have been playing in my TV market (Philly) for weeks. That women had to go to a Trump rally to figure this out?

      • Todd20036

        Seems like the daughter wasn’t really the one who was the most disabled.

      • SoCalGal20

        At least she figured it out and she’s not voting for him! Sometimes it takes people seeing and experiencing something personally to get it.

      • Blake J Butler

        She was undecided but if i read it correctly it said that she was aware of the comments that he had made with the disabled reporter. Even with a group of disabled people ATTENDING the rally. Why would she be offended now about those remarks now ?

      • Reality.Bites

        Don’t you know that Crooked Hillary’s ads show carefully created digital fakes of things Trump never said?

        OT but related: Did anyone see the youngerized Michael Douglas in Ant-man?

        http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/vulture/2015/07/21/21-young-michael-douglas.w1200.h630.jpg

        I imagine with enough time and money you could create believable sounds and images of someone saying something they never said. And like other bits of digital manipulations, eventually the tools become simple and powerful enough to be easily done on personal computers. Right now something like the Michael Douglas scene takes months of work by a highly trained team of both artists and programmers. In 20 years?

    • Joseph Miceli

      Typical Republican. Until it happens to them they could give a shit. Progressive care if it happens to anyone or if it happens at all.
      Republicans are selfish fucking assholes.

  • CanuckDon

    The entire Rolling Stones interview is incredibly interesting. Springsteen is such an insightful, brilliant guy…that open honesty with himself is the most attractive quality a man can have.

  • SoCalGal20

    OT: A new Trae Crowder video (I sent the link to Joe so maybe he’ll make a post later).

    https://youtu.be/Wu5znlyX9uY

    • Silver Badger

      He’s right.

    • tcinsf

      Hmm, wonder what happened in Northern California? I was at the SF show and it was a rollicking good time. One of his partner’s on the tour, Corey Forrester, was so damned funny I almost spit up. I’d a thunk the tiresome lot that does infest my fine city wouldn’t have even bothered going to a “redneck” comedy tour.

      • SoCalGal20

        It’s probably that condescending thing that many some liberals (and others) do (“How can you be black/gay/a woman and NOT vote for Bernie?!” just being one example that I heard often on tumblr) where they act like they know better and know everything about a topic. I’m sure I have been guilty of such myself at times.

        I have good friends in the south and they certainly aren’t voting for Trump, nor are they completely ignorant hicks. OTOH my aunt in Flint, MI never wastes an opportunity to tell me about how she’s on the Trump train.

      • SoCalGal20

        I’m glad you had a good time. I’m so annoyed. The Jolla show sold out before I got tickets and they added a second Pasadena show but I’m in a little financial situation at the moment so I couldn’t justify going. Ugh. So, next time (or when I can travel someplace fun again).

    • Treant

      He misses the mark a bit here. One, never generalize. While about 41% of people in MS will vote for HRC, only about 35% of CA voters are expected to vote for Trump. That’s a significant difference and implies an extremely significant differential in the two states.

      Stereotyping is bad, we get that. So, y’know, maybe don’t rant about us folks up north who hate the South. I hate the South for its continuing racism, insistently Republican voting patterns while being taker states, and so on. You won’t hear me accusing Trae of these things specifically (it’s obviously untrue), but don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining. You guys have huge problems.

      Third…is that his real accent or does he fake it for his performances? I’m hoping it’s his, or he’s simply encouraging the stereotype for laughs and cognitive dissonance.

      • Reality.Bites

        It’s his.

        • Treant

          You’re sure? It sounds exaggerated. I’ve also seen interviewers start to laugh when he speaks, implying that they heard him speak earlier and it wasn’t like that.

          • SoCalGal20

            He’s from the sticks in TN. He has said his accent for his Liberal Redneck rants is slightly exaggerated but that he has relatives that talk like that (think Margaret Cho’s imitations of her parents) but he also has a definite accent. He’s not faking it if that’s what you’re implying.

          • Treant

            “He has said his accent for his Liberal Redneck rants is slightly exaggerated”

            That’s faking it, like I would be if I used a modest Pennsylvania Dutch accent (I have a slight regional accent). So…he’s actually managed to lose considerable respect from me since he’s playing it for laughs but bitches about being pigeonholed.

          • SoCalGal20

            THIS is his actual accent.

            http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/meet-the-liberal-redneck-trae-crowder-679646275769

            Don’t fall off your high horse!

          • Treant

            My apologies for insulting somebody you like. However, that accent is drifting from light to heavy and even he calls his character an “exaggeration.”

            No high horse involved. He’s exacerbating what he criticizes.

            And that’s the last I’ll say about that as I like you and would like to keep it that way.

          • SoCalGal20

            Yes, he says the character (he is a comedian, after all) is an exaggeration of himself. I’m not sure how this is brand new news to you but ok.

            I like you as well but you’re doing that condescending thing I find irritating so good day!

          • Treant

            Uh…thanks for the insult, I guess? Good day…but alas, Trae isn’t the only one who I now respect less. That’s sad.

      • SoCalGal20

        You think it’s only in the south where racism happens or they vote Republican? Look at all the state governments that are completely taken over by Republicans. CA has one of the highest concentrations of white nationalists in the country. Oregon was founded on racism. Last I checked Paul Ryan and Reince Priebus came from WI.

        You talk about not generalizing and then generalize. Maybe the south has a higher proportion of people who insist on voting against their own best interests but the south doesn’t have a monoply on the things you criticize.

        • Treant

          I never said it was. However, historically and culturally, it’s definitely more pervasive there.

          We have a chance to flip Iowa. Indiana is a near-impossibility. Alabama is about the same…so if we count those at “near impossibility,” you’ll actually find that most are in the South or Central regions.

          Since it wasn’t topical, I didn’t mention it, but I harbor a deep dislike of the corridor from Oklahoma to Montana as well.

          If you want my honest opinion? We should have taken the Southern states back after the Civil War as client states or non-voting Territories only, only to be left back in after they proved they could grow up. Some of those would still be client states….and should be. It would have solved half the problem right there, and we could have worked on the rest of the bigot states.

          • SoCalGal20

            Except that’s not true. Racism has been pervasive in the North, we’ve just been more “polite” about it and try to ignore it when we can. We might not have had signs that said “Whites Only” or black people only being able to sit in the back of the bus but Boston fought busing and school desegregation, signs for “Irish need not apply” were common in northern cities at one time, the Klan had many members in states like Illinois. In fact, it’s pretty hypocritical to attack the south for racism when it’s really a national problem. Sure, there are cultural and sociological differences between the North and South but it’s not like the North is without its own significant issues when it comes to race or ignorant poor white people.

      • The_Wretched

        It’s his accent. He can talk purdy like broadcast english but it’s not nearly as fluid.

  • Slippy_World

    The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree-Mamma Trump
    phttps://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c66f2e4713f9f0c25965b73ed81048e6006adf707b71dc4742c6af2b74cb8d43.jpg

    • Christian Flanagan

      I never even thought to look. OMFG!

    • Reality.Bites

      She looks like Jerri Blank’s grandmother.

    • William

      She always looks like a taxadermied Margaret Thatcher. She is in the same pose and hair in every photo I’ve seen.

  • Lumpy Gaga

    The Springsteen cover story in Vanity Fair is pretty good.

    Unusual question – he is directly asked why he pumped up and went all muscly in 1984 for the “Born in the USA” campaign. You can figure out the relevance for yourself:

    I was posing the question from a superficial,
    stagecraft angle: Was his evolution from the scrawny chancer on the
    cover of Darkness on the Edge of Town to the muscle-bound W.P.A.-poster
    hero of the mid-80s a sort of less extreme version of David Bowie-style
    shape-shifting? Was it a conscious image reboot? Springsteen’s initial
    reply was that, first and foremost, he was trying to get healthy as his
    metabolism slowed, so he took to lifting weights, and “I had a body
    that just kind of popped in six months.”

    “But if you want to get into it deeper,” he continued, “my father was
    built big, so there was some element of ‘O.K., I’m 34. I’m a man now.’ I
    remember my father at that age. There was the idea of creating a man’s
    body to a certain degree. I suppose I was measuring that after my dad.
    And also, perhaps, in some way, trying to please him.”

    Then Springsteen went deeper still. “I also found that I simply enjoyed
    the exercise,” he said. “It was perfectly Sisyphean for my
    personality—lifting something heavy up and putting it down in the same
    spot for no particularly good reason. I’ve always felt a lot in common
    with Sisyphus. I’m always rolling that rock, man. One way or another,
    I’m always rolling that rock.”

    Full article, presumably for a limited time:

    http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2016/09/bruce-springsteen-cover-story

    • Richie Kau

      Great article…thanks for the head’s up!

  • David Walker

    Somewhat OT: The random ad in the right column is for amazon.com offering 40% off “Born to Run” by Mr. Springsteen, Sir. The cover has a picture of him in his teens or twenties leaning on a Corvette. *sigh*

    • Friday

      I think that may be for the book he’s come out with. There’s a retrospective album/collection by a different title I can’t quite remember the name for. (That promises to be good: a lot of his earliest stuff is interesting poetically.) I heard an NPR interview, kinda, this week.

  • penpal

    He’s right, and it’s basic common sense. Just under half of this country is totally deranged to be supporting this ridiculous human garbage can.

    • RoFaWh

      Just under half of this country is in a state of acute economic distress.

      Okay, I just made that up, but you can replace “just under half” with any other description meaning “a significant fraction”. Not all of the support for Drumpf comes from the economically distressed, but a good chunk of it certainly does.

  • Henry Auvil

    Bruce is a god to millions of white-male blue-collars, so maybe this will have some bite.

    • motordog

      Sadly, I doubt it…this toxin runs very deep. Just one more thing for them to ‘ignore’ (like the tons of evidence and examples that Trump is completely unsuited for the office of president).

  • Friday

    Springsteen: Proof America’s actually *better than this shit.*

  • dcurlee

    Well put Bruce

  • Ray Butlers

    I never thought I’d miss Rockefeller Republicans.

    • stevenj

      From what I’ve read about the Rockefellers there’s nothing to miss.

  • David Walker

    It seems appropriate, if rather off-topic, to put this in the conversation. We need to remember about that annoyingly handy word “all.” Certainly I do.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu5znlyX9uY

    • Herald

      That is a very good segment!

      • David Walker

        Yes. It made me squirm a couple of times. “Yes! Sorry! I’m guilty!” I’d love to know if there’s a way I could make it up to him.

  • EweTaw

    As long as Bruce inspires his admirers to get out in November to vote for Hillary, I’m fine with that. Just don’t expect me to listen to his music.

    • JCF

      I confess I find much of his music very repetitive.

      • Dan Robinson

        He has a few songs that are long. complex and musically and vocally very interesting and well crafted. Then he has a ton of songs like Glory Days. I played that in a bar band and boy did I learn to hate those 2 chords.

  • JCF

    If Oprah has her own network, can Bruuuuuce get one? Because that’s a more cogent analysis of where were at, October 2016, than anything you get from the MSM.