Last Night’s Debate Drew Record TV Audience

But the many millions who watched online are uncounted. Via CNN Money:

More than 80 million people tuned in to see Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump face off, setting a new record in the sixty year history of televised presidential debates. The final numbers are still being tallied by Nielsen. But the debate averaged a total of 80.9 million viewers across 12 of the channels that carried it live.

Nielsen traditionally measures viewers who watch via traditional TV at home. That means people who watched the debate at parties, bars, restaurants, and offices were not counted. Nor does the 80.9 million viewer total include PBS and C-SPAN. Ratings for PBS will be available later Tuesday.

Various live streams on YouTube together registered more than 2.5 million simultaneous viewers. Live streams on other sites also reached millions of people. This means the actual total audience is significantly higher than 80 million.

The first Obama-Romney debate in 2012 averaged 67 million viewers. The debate viewership number to beat was 81 million, set back in 1980, when Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan debated just once before the election.

  • Giant Monster Gamera

    I’m convinced that this will be the last debate. Glad the audience was there for the Cheeto Meltdown. The boyfriend, who is apolitical and probably won’t vote, said he couldn’t stand Trump.

    • StillALiberal

      JMGers need to make up an appropriate Twitter hashtag when he does..This is my effort to get things started…TheGreatTrumpWimpOut

    • thom

      he loses the election if he cancels. instead his ego and army of yes men will convince him that he actually win tge first debate… he’ll probably double down on the next debate. be more unhinged, be less prepared, attack personally.

      unless conway gets to him

    • EweTaw

      You gotta get him to vote. Ya gotta!

      • BobSF_94117

        Drop a copy of Lysistrata on his desk along with an application for an absentee ballot.

      • Giant Monster Gamera

        It’s complex. He’s Native American and his family considers the tribe to be their only legitimate government. I can’t say I blame them given their history with the US government.

        • EweTaw

          I respect that. Especially since it probably doesn’t matter who is president with regard to his culture and heritage. I had a Flathead boyfriend (deadly gorgeous with incredibly long braids) who I was dumbstruck in love with. The coolest person I’ve ever met (almost). He held a similar opinion.

        • clay

          For my father’s side of the family, Trump’s Nativism is motivation to vote against him. Nativists aren’t just belligerently ignoring Native needs and rights, they actively destroy them to shore up their own claims as the only “Real” Americans.

          • Giant Monster Gamera

            I’m mixed and my dad was one of the first (partial) Native Americans to hold statewide office. That part of my family is very active politically, especially when it comes to Native issues. I think full Native Americans will become more political in the near future, especially as the kids leave the reservations – the BF says they’re the last and smallest minority left.

  • SunsetGay

    For once, it really was the Clinton who did not inhale.

  • Butch

    I know it’s important but I just couldn’t. I couldn’t stand 90 minutes of listening to Trump sling his bullshit.

    • Ernest Endevor

      She was very impressive and made it worth watching. We saw it on PBS with almost none of the hoopla and turned off before the ‘pundits’ weighed in. You might give it a try next time.

      • EweTaw

        It was a good romp. Thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it (except Trump’s snot monster sniffles).

        • Ernest Endevor

          I didn’t notice that. Don’t know why. I did see all the grimacing and face-pulling. Plus she looked like she was having a good time.

          • EweTaw

            Maybe it’s my animal survival mechanism. Every time someone sniffles, coughs or sneezes near me I quickly move away to avoid catching whatever it is they have. πŸ™‚

          • Ernest Endevor

            Can’t stop laughing.

      • Ore Carmi

        Turning it off before the pundits is key! The ones on CNN were super annoying and biased.

      • Butch

        Sorta kinda in my defense – the mandatory 4 a.m. wakeup call is a hindrance to an event that starts at 9…..It’s bad enough when I go to bed on time.

        • Ernest Endevor

          Well there ya go.

    • Stephen Elliot Phillips

      I literally watched 10 minutes and could not take a second more. I insisted my hubby turn the channel. We watched vickie tumble over in a dune buggy on Housewives of OC.
      That was less irritating than the cheeto blathering incoherently

  • bkmn
    • Mark NeΓ© Fuzz

      Pretty much every mouth I’ve kissed has had a dick in it, too? Not so much a problem.

    • ShawnSwagger

      Aww. That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

    • agcons

      This is quite a pleasant thought, actually.

    • another_steve

      My husband, the cook in our household, always asks me if I’ve washed my hands, when he calls me into the kitchen to help with this or that cooking chore.

      He knows I have a tendency to tug on my dick at odd times.

      • clay

        “My husband, the cock in our handhold, . . ”

        You read it your way, I’ll read it mine.

    • OdieDenCO

      the trick is to find and shake the hand that still has a dick in it πŸ˜›

      • PickyPecker

        Looking for Mister Goodbar.

        • Treant

          Eh, I can make do with Mister Tolerablerod.

  • Mark NeΓ© Fuzz

    How will they account for the alternate reality debate, the one where Trump appeared to win? All those people who think he came out on top certainly didn’t see the same debate.

    • bkmn

      I love that Trump is claiming a CBS poll showed him winning the debate.

      On @foxandfriends @realDonaldTrump said he won a @CBSNews post-debate poll. We did not conduct a post-debate poll.— Major Garrett (@MajorCBS) September 27, 2016

      • Mark NeΓ© Fuzz

        We expect this kind of bullshit from the Donald. The question is, did the Fox yokels call him out on it? Probably not.

        • Nic Peterson

          Im gonna guess no. Am I right?

        • DJ John Bear

          I thought I heard that Fox have him as winning the debate. Not like they’re a reputable news source or anything…

        • Todd20036

          Heck, I am just grateful CBS called him out on it.

        • bkmn

          Of course not.

      • thom

        it was probably a local cbs stationwho ran a poll on their website.
        this kind if stuff confuses people all the time. usually not presidential candidates though lol

      • kaydenpat

        Wow. How delusional do you have to be to make up favorable polls? Sad.

        • bkmn

          Orange is the new delusional.

      • Nic Peterson

        He lost the Luntz crowd. The only way he won a poll is if that poll was conducted at a Klan rally.

        • Lazycrockett

          Or those internet polls where one can vote multiple times.

          • clay

            at a Klannish site.

          • Or among people who stupidly think a trending hashtag can alter the fabric of time, space, and reality itself.

        • bkmn

          I have been really amazed at how honest Luntz has been about Trump. He really does not like him. And Luntz is about as partisan as they come.

      • SoCalGal20

        Nate Silver tweeted basically the same thing a while back when Trump claimed a 538 poll had him ahead in IA. 538 doesn’t conduct polls.

        • bkmn

          Well he thinks he can get away with it because the Trumpthumpers are not bright in the least.

    • StillALiberal

      TrumpWon is currently trending on Twitter right now…Many Russians are busy tonight.

      • PickyPecker

        I find it somewhat interesting, funny and yet a sad comment on our society that something like a hashtag thing is given any amount of legitimacy on anything.

        • OdieDenCO

          social behavior data is big business. the CDC is predicting flu outbreaks base on hashtag thingies.

        • KCMC

          curious pending Twitter sale described as, at a point when the platform has peaked. Hmmm

      • tominsf

        Through the miracle of electronics, it doesn’t actually require many Russians to create a big noise on Twitter. And I have the impression that their English grammar is getting slowly less slavic, so it becomes more difficult to identify them clearly as Russians.

        • Treant

          Ask them to say “moose and squirrel.” The accent is always a dead giveaway.

      • Cuberly

        This tweet is interesting, the thread is too.

        https://twitter.com/DustinGiebel/status/780814613021548544

        • PLAINTOM

          I have to ask, Is this for real ?

          • Cylux

            Is it from the internet?
            Yes?
            Then probably not.
            But also that doesn’t actually matter, since if enough people believe that it’s legit, then it’s as good as legit.

            It’s all about who has the most persuasive narrative, and I’m not sure the ‘Trump is in bed with Russia but will also start World War 3’ is all that convincing. One or the other, maybe, but not both at once.

          • Cuberly

            That’s why I mentioned the thread. There’s a lot of discussion on the validity of it.

          • John30013

            Apparently there’s a site called trendsmap.com, which you must pay to use (at least to generate this type of map), and which purports to show where various hashtags are coming from (presumably in near-real-time). Some of the replies to this guy’s tweet indicated that they weren’t able to reproduce that map after the fact. I just visited the site and it does seem to let you go back up to 7 days. (The site offers a free trial, but I wasn’t interested in signing up.)

            There was also a lot of discussion about the use of VPNs and other IP-address-spoofing technology, perhaps as a way to explain why all the #TrumpWon traffic seemed to originate from around St. Petersburg (Russia). But I find it hard to believe that thousands or millions of people would have used VPNs in this way just to make it *appear* that thier tweets were all coming from that part of the world. I don’t see what incentive they’d have to do so. (Unless it’s a false flag operation by HRC’s dastardly operatives at the DNC, to make The Donald look bad by seeming to tie him–again–to Russia.)

          • Cuberly

            There’s a LOT of debate going on as to whether the map was accurate, or even real. The debate on the authenticity is actually kind of interesting.

    • another_steve

      The partisans on both sides will say that their candidate won — regardless of the reality. If Donald Trump, literally, had an episode of diarrhea on the stage last night, his supporters would claim he won the debate.

      Eyes on the undecideds now.

      Theirs are the only opinions that matter.

  • thom

    i can’t find the video. but Hillary was just speaking in North Carolina where she slammed HB2. calling it meanspirited and wrongheaded. she said it hurts NC and more importantly it hurts people. it tells people they can’t be part of society.
    it was powerful to me, and one more reason I’m proudly and unapologetically on team Clinton

    • kaydenpat

      And thankfully the polls in NC show that McCrory should be out of a job come November.

      • EweTaw

        Quick! Get the Staple Singers out to sing Oh Happy Day! And Aretha, too!
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdCWR-XpGxI

        • AndyinChicago

          Mavis is the absolute best. Her last album was amazing.

          • EweTaw

            I’m not religious at all. Quite the opposite. But I love good wailing gospel music that is completely out of control. It’s like howling at the moon, which I often do.

          • AndyinChicago

            I’m a happy agnostic/scientist, but there’s something so genuine when Mavis or many other gospel singers sing that it’s inspiring. It’s more faith in righteousness in my mind than faith in a deity.

  • geoffalnutt

    I hope she was able to win over some “undecideds”. Don’t get me started on them. Not pretty.

  • pch1013

    Also uncounted: the hordes who were watching it in (and outside) every bar in the Castro last night.

  • PickyPecker
    • kaydenpat

      Too true.

    • EweTaw

      Maybe he can claim he has gout.

    • Todd Allis

      He’s got brain spurs!

      • Rex

        Bet they really hurt when he sits down.

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    • PLAINTOM

      He should stick with the golden oldie, foot problems. This time it would refer to sticking it in his mouth.

      • OdieDenCO

        foot and mouth disease

    • KCMC

      upvote for correct usage, badly.

  • Rex

    With such high ratings it should be a weekly series.
    Now, what would we call it?

    • PickyPecker

      Orange Crush?

      • kaydenpat

        **Bowing down**

    • lymis

      Purgatory.

      • EweTaw
        • tcinsf

          Their meatballs aren’t THAT good.

        • Neely OHara

          Wow. And the LAST thing she needs is a meatball sub…

          • EweTaw

            (smile)

        • Rebecca Gardner

          If the availability of an item on a fast food menu gets you this upset then you have some serious life problems. She needs to go buy 5 bags of Cheetos and smoke a bowl.

          • EweTaw

            I agree. I’ve encountered this kind of behavior in public several times and each time it was obvious the person had serious issues and had just clicked passed the threshold of keeping it together. And if someone tries to help them they tend to be dangerous. Two days ago some guy got upset in a Starbucks, went on a Tilt rage and shot the guy standing line in front of him. He actually went ballistic and killed a stranger because? No mochaccinos?

          • Rebecca Gardner

            OMG! What? Seriously! Some guy just shot a stranger in line? Where was this?

          • EweTaw

            Las Vegas. We get all the murder and crime news from Las Vegas because we don’t have enough in Utah. Seriously.

          • Rebecca Gardner

            I just found it. So horrible. So senseless.

          • EweTaw

            So “Maybe I don’t need a pumpkin spice frappe right now!”

          • ChrisMorley

            or one bag of cheetos and smoke 5 bowls.

        • Mark NeΓ© Fuzz

          Bet she’s a Trump supporter. But where is the manager? He/she should be on line telling her to get the fuck out, and call the police if she doesn’t comply.

        • JellyDonut

          1. someone pulls those jeans out of her ass
          2. Increase her meds
          3. call the cops

        • Dude has my gratitude for (1) his reaction shot and (2) remembering to hold his phone sideways!

        • bobbyjoe

          Was it me or did that woman seem upset?

    • Rex

      Snark Tank

    • OdieDenCO

      what’s my drug?

    • bobbyjoe

      Cokey and the Prez

  • kaydenpat

    Good. Millions of people got to see Trump getting a much deserved whooping by a girl. That will haunt him forever.

    • another_steve

      Her composure under pressure is awesome. Totally totally awesome. I for one am no where even near that ability. Not even in the same ballpark.

      We knew that, of course, by the way she handled herself during the 11-hour Benghazi hearing — but last night was an absolute wonder to behold.

      • EweTaw

        I’m guessing you like Clinton? (smile)

        • another_steve

          A lot. πŸ˜‰

          Barack Obama brought to the Presidency and to governing a whole new understanding of the “other” and the “outsider.” How they fit in. What insights they bring.

          Hillary Clinton will bring the same.

      • Ernest Endevor

        Experience. That’s why I think she’s such a great candidate.

    • AndyinChicago

      Those millions plus the hundreds of us who watched on PBS. Because after a debate, like always, Gwen Ifill and Judy Woodruff are AMAZING.

      • bobbyjoe

        I loooved when Mark Shields was talking about whether Hillary was “likeable” enough and Gwen Ifill and the woman next to her weren’t having any of that. Glad to see there’s at least one place where people get called out on the sexist double-standards of this campaign.

        • AndyinChicago

          Yeah. I expect more from Shields. The sad things is that likability does matter, but if you question it about one candidate, you have to do it to both. Likability mattered for Romney vs. Obama, but with Clinton vs. Trump, questions of likability are a guise for something much more sinister. They might as well just call it “bitchiness” to be more specific.

  • clay

    Trump will now tell himself, and the US public, that only he can draw 85 million viewers, therefore, he should automatically be president, or unilaterally appoint the president, whichever one he’s on today.

  • Neely OHara

    The Nielsens are totally obsolete. I have friends who were approached to be a “Nielsen Family” as recently as last year, and were given a paper booklet to record their viewing habits. Paper? Really? And the paper included NO spaces to record having watched Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime or ANY streaming service. Worthless. Advertisers are glomming on to the fact and the Nielsens are scrambling to catch up.

    • safari

      Trying to deal with time shifted (dvr’d) shows was also a pain.

      • Lazycrockett

        My mom did it for a few years, but according to Nielsens she didn’t watch enough tv.

        • Neely OHara

          Wow, as though what you’re NOT watching isn’t equally telling…

    • danolgb

      It’s interesting at how much further the radio side of that is. Nielsen bought Arbitron but Arbitron in major markets had gone to the “PPM” system where participants wear a little pager-like device. Not only does it pick up what the user is actively listening to, it picks up what they’re passively listening to. Like when they go to restaurants and such. It’s fascinating actually.

    • Grafxbear

      It is obsolete. We were asked to participate and we said no thank you. The guy says, but it’s important, we laughed.

    • safari

      I’m honestly surprised this information isn’t captured by satellite and cable providers already.

      • Neely OHara

        Stop making sense…

      • It actually is. Making the whole Nielsen effort even more sad and obsolete. They’re like the last buggy whip manufacturer in a world that moved on to automobiles two generations ago.

      • EweTaw

        DirecTV knows everything I watch, what my favorite color is and how much I weigh. Seriously, the DirecTV DVR box transmits a daily up feed of the hours and programs. Scary.

    • EweTaw

      I got one of those solicitations from Nielsons. It included a $10 bill as an incentive. I kept the ten bucks and threw the book and letter away.

      • bobbyjoe

        I got one of those ten dollar Nielson letters, too, and I did the same thing. But what I was tempted to do was to send them back a folded page that said on the outside: “here’s what I’m watching.” And when you opened it up it would just say in great big letters:

        PORN

    • Jeffrey

      We were a Nielsen household three years ago. It was all digital and didn’t have to do much. But they called all the time to ask prying questions and once when I didn’t answer my phone they rang my doorbell. He said “I saw you drive up but you didn’t answer.” So I said “get all your shit out of my house now.”
      So the sent an adorable cub technician over to remove everything and I bent him over the couch and fucked his brains out. A very unexpected and productive afternoon. I forgot what I was talking about.

      • Neely OHara

        OK, that started out creepy and ended up kinda hot…

        “Take a lesson, Rose, THAT’S how you tell a story…”

        • Jeffrey

          Lol

  • Blake Jordan
  • he was a complete and utter disaster.

    • Todd20036

      Yeah, I feel much better today than I did this past weekend.

  • Nic Peterson

    And the prostitutes employed by ratings based media have declared the debates to be a success, their duty as a check on power fulfilled. They expect payment in full, a free pass to continue their ‘work’ all the while proclaiming their impartiality and independence.

    This is why we can’t have nice stuff.

  • Lazycrockett

    Hyping that shit for weeks and still didn’t beat Carter/Reagan. Serves the media right.

    • Rebecca Gardner

      The article says it was the highest watch debate in the past 60 years. How did it not beat Carter/Reagan? Confused. Did I miss something?

    • SoCalGal20

      Yes they did. Finals aren’t in and Carter/Reagan had 81 million viewers so the debate last night was the most viewed.

  • Steven B
    • EweTaw

      That is hilarious!

  • Lazycrockett

    I would like to know what the second hour ratings were, cause I’m sure that most dumb murica’s turned it off bout 1/2 hour in. Cause paying attention is hard.

  • EdmondWherever

    Hubby made me watch, in “exchange” for “forcing” him to watch The Hateful Eight, which he hated (although I didn’t “force” him to watch it, we’ve been going through the most recent Oscar nominees and this was just next). About halfway through I turned on my Minecraft and went back to farming.

  • TampaDink

    Has the orange snuffleupagus taken full credit for these incredible numbers?

    • danolgb

      Yuge

      • TampaDink

        Bragadociously yuge….yuger than Chiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiina.

    • Todd20036

      Wasn’t the Snuffilupagus virtually invisible to most people?

      • TampaDink

        True….but the orange variety works in a different manner. He desires, craves, and demands to be noticed by everyone.

  • Tens of millions of people in America and around the globe: “Please Madame Secretary, assure us you got this?”

    Clinton: “Don’t worry, I got this.

    Clinton uses the Rope-a-Cheeto-Dope strategy, baiting Donald within the first 20 minutes — successfully.

    Trump: ((snuffle)) ((grunt)) ((lie shamelessly))

    World: “Oh thank god…”

  • Cuberly

    Looks like his “allergy” problems got much worse….he does have small hands don’t he.

    http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag98/lookwerelearning/Slime6_zpsc4979a5e.jpg

    • EweTaw

      I saw that movie. The Blob?

      • Cuberly

        Not from a movie, this is a science illustration. Of what I don’t know…not sure I want to know. eww…lol…

        • coram nobis

          The hand is tiny. Is that a school pupil? Or Donald?

  • MikeBx2

    The only way to stop a dangerous, racist, bigoted demagogue is to shine a great big spotlight on him.

  • Sam_Handwich

    so are we headed for a gubmint shutdown on friday?

    • ChrisMorley

      ooooooh, I didn’t realise the GOP was still playing that game.

    • JCF

      I’ve heard (on NPR) it’s very unlikely.

  • Stubenville

    “Last Night’s Debate Drew Record TV Audience” Sadly, few minds were changed.

    • fuzzybits

      And the remaining two debates won’t change many minds either.

  • Blake Jordan

    Guess were the #trumpwon Twitter trend started…

    https://twitter.com/dustingiebel/status/780814613021548544

    • EweTaw

      Go figure.

    • Dreaming Vertebrate

      #MakeRussiaGreatAgain

      • Stephen Elliot Phillips

        Russia was never great.

        • coram nobis

          They had two great Tsars, Peter and Catherine.

          Catherine of Russia, that potentate,
          Knew that her job was to fascinate.
          Some people called her a reprobate,
          But still she’s known as Kate the Great.

          Why, she made the Congress, she made the Premier,
          She made the clergy, and she made ’em cheer.
          She made the butler, she made the groom,
          She made the maid who made the room.
          She made the Army, she made the Marines,
          Made some of them princes, and some of them queens.
          And when she was still discontent, Kate’d create a new regiment.
          — Cole Porter, “Kate the Great”, cut from the musical “Anything Goes” for reasons too subtle to explain

          • Stephen Elliot Phillips

            Supposedly she made it with male horses too

          • coram nobis

            That’s a canard, near as I can tell. Her genius was, in that male dominated age, to manage a series of lovers, use them to competently command armies and manage the state, and even produce an heir — while remaining firmly in command. The fact that her husband the Tsar wound up dead (hemorrhoidal colic said the palace, but people at the funeral were curious about the bandage around his neck) only added to her power.

          • Dean

            Wasn’t her husband, Peter III supposedly rather feeble-minded?

          • coram nobis

            A bit screwy, let’s say.

        • Jeffrey

          Catherine was Great…she had the title and everything!

    • avidreader

      Fucking Ruskies, they really love burning through their reserves, don’t they?

    • ultragreen

      The Russians like Putin, so why not Trump? They’re similar to each other in some ways.

      • John30013

        Some ways?

  • FAEN

    I certainly hope a good deal of those watching realize Dumpster is a loose canon that would destroy the 🌎.

  • JellyDonut

    Trump minions are saying the questions were rigged to make him look bad! LOL

    • Todd20036

      It’s all they have.

    • Dreaming Vertebrate

      I thought it was the squirrel toupee that did that.

    • Rex

      He doesn’t need any assistance to look bad.

    • ultragreen

      So they are admitting that he lost the debate.

  • ShawnSwagger

    I hope Kaine can do a repeat performance of last night on Pence in a week.

    • KnownDonorDad

      Pence is the most frightening of any of the candidates.

    • Cool step-dad vs the human Q-tip?

      Sadly, Pence will very likely be much better prepared because he’s actually run for office before, more than once, and he does know how it’s supposed to be done.

      Thing is though, it’s probably going to be a night of Dueling Beige and won’t move the needle. Everybody knows the real action is at the top of the ticket.

      What I find amusing is already there those in the media who think there’ll be a better, more prepared and polished Trump in the next debate. Ain’t gonna happen. In fact, I think the chances he’ll bail entirely using ridiculous demands as his excuse went way up.

      • KCMC

        curious how Pence has departed from donald on some issues: global warming…

    • JCF

      I hope Kaine rips him over his anti-LGBT policies and practices! [and the GOP platform, too]

  • Cuberly
    • coram nobis

      Political Sinus 101.

    • another_steve

      The internetz are ablaze with stories on his sniffling/snorting. So many theories to choose from.

      Personally, I like the “cocaine habit” one.

      He can certainly afford to have one of those.

    • ultragreen

      I think Trump may be turning into a pig. Hence all of that sniffling and snorting.

  • fuzzybits
    • Dreaming Vertebrate

      Whereas Donnie just flings **it.

  • Dreaming Vertebrate

    I feel terrible that I just followed along on the blog, and did not contribute to that record number of viewers. Terrible!

    • ChrisMorley

      No need to feel bad about it, around 160,000,000 other US adults found more pressing things to do.

  • Lazycrockett

    OT Howard Dean is on MSNBC talking up Drumpf being on cocaine.

    • Dreaming Vertebrate

      Clearly something is going on. He looked and sounded sick.

      • KnownDonorDad

        What! Accusing a candidate of being sick? How underhanded! /s

      • OdieDenCO

        donny laying the ground work for a deferment from the next 2 debates. he has chronic snuffaluffagus

    • I saw a tweet from Dean last night suggesting exactly that. I was amazed he actually went there…but in this election, why the hell not?

      • Lazycrockett

        and he didn’t back down on MSNBC when questioned bout it. Asked if he was going to delete it he replied, “Hell No.”

  • TheManicMechanic

    Trump won’t show up on any more debates that he does not have absolute control over.

  • coram nobis

    There’s also Trump’s stand on NATO, which he insists on analyzing as a business.

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/09/26/in_debate_trump_claims_nato_fixed_itself_for_him.html

    In its full incoherence:

    But when you look at NATOβ€”I was asking on a major show, what do you think of NATO. I’m a businessman. But I have common sense. I said, well, I’ll tell you, I haven’t given lots of thought to NATO but two things. No. 1, the 28 countries of NATO, many of them aren’t paying their fair share. No. 2, that bothers me, because we’re defending them and they should be at least paying us what they’re supposed to be paying by treaty and contract, and, No. 2, I said and very strongly, NATO could be obsolete becauseβ€”and I was very strong on this, and it was actually covered very accurately in the New York Times which is unusual for the New York Times, to be honest. But I said they do not focus on terror, and I was very strong. And I said it numerous times. And about four months ago I read on the front page of the Wall Street Journal that NATO is opening up a major terror division and I think that’s great.

    (Extra points if you notice the two No. 2s).

    Out of all the blithering, these points:
    1. He’s still ambivalent about honoring Art. V of the North Atlantic treaty, apparently, if their accounts-receivable aren’t up to snuff. I’m sure this may make, say, Estonia a little nervous.
    2. NATO countries don’t focus on terror, an assertion that must have raised eyebrows at the French defense ministry, among other places.
    3. His experience as a businessman makes him a defense expert, and “being strong” means talking big, apparently.

    • Dreaming Vertebrate

      Not to mention his unhealthy fawning upon Putin.

      • coram nobis

        Yes, and Putin’s people have been dropping some alarming hints.

        The combined military might of all three Baltic countriesβ€”Lithuania, Latvia and Estoniaβ€”receive nothing but open mockery and contempt from its mighty neighbor. Last November, when the leaders of the three states made a final decision not to partake in the anti-ISIL coalition in Syria, based on the fact that at one point in time Russia might be a member of the coalition (a partnership they consider unacceptable), Russian Vice Premier Dmitry Rogozin tweeted sarcastically, β€œNo, they wanted to, but their armies got stuck in the elevator.”
        — The Observer, Feb. 2016

        • EweTaw

          #makeRussiamuybuenoagain

    • clay

      Uhm, if NATO “is opening up a major terror division”, doesn’t that mean that they are NOT obsolete?

      • coram nobis

        Let’s just say they’ve been doing it anyway. France, to name one example, has been dealing with terrorists for some years both in Metropolitan France and in places like Niger, where their paras and the Legion have been busy off and on. NATO may have various regional HQs but a new “division” isn’t like a grand opening of a new casino.

        • clay

          Yes, but that means that (even he should recognize that) he has only one point– we need to be more mercenary. (His second point is simply his constant point– “I’m Great!”)

    • Lazycrockett

      I was amazed that basically he wants to turn the military into a mercenary force that is paid to help out allies. WTF.

      • Close… What he really wants to do is run the U.S. military like a mob protection racket.

        “Nice country ya got here. Be a real shame if, say, Russia invaded ya and we weren’t around to do somethin’ about it.”

    • Trump is like a pre-schooler who, upon witnessing his parents drive, believes he knows how to drive like an absolute expert. Because hey, he can make vroom-vroom noises with his mouth and move the steering wheel around at random. How hard could it be?

      Only it’s the Presidency we’re talking about. A job where ‘common sense’ alone — even if Trump had it, which he doesn’t — isn’t enough to do the job.

      What I find most amazing about Trump is how his breathtaking ignorance includes being breathtakingly ignorant about what he doesn’t know. But he believes he knows literally everything about everything.

      Strike that. I’m even more amazed he actually got the number of NATO member nations correct. Other than that though, his logorrhea up there was pure babblespeak.

  • Danuta Ewiak

    Lester Holt and Hillary Clinton vs Donald Trump. Two against one. Was it fair? Who will be the next President of the United States? What conclusions result from the analysis of the Bible? Let me remind here a fragment of an ancient vision: “And [the king of the north] will go back (to) his land with great wealth [1945. This detail indicated that Hitler will attack also the Soviet Union and will fight to the bitter end. In the beginning there were no signs of such the ending of this war]; and his heart (will be) against the holy covenant [hostility towards Christians]; and will act [it means activity in the international arena]; and turned back to his own land [1991-1993. The collapse of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. Russian troops returned to their country]. At the appointed time [he] will return back.” (Daniel 11:28, 29a) The return of Russia in this context means the breakup of the European Union and NATO. Many countries of the former Eastern block reconciled with Russia. Such is the plan of God. The first should be the return of Russia, and then the war, and not vice versa. Therefore Trump will win. (cf. Jeremiah 1:12)

    In 1882 British troops occupied Egypt. Great Britain then took the role of “the king of the south”. Around the same time, Russia expanded its influence in the region, which previously belonged to Seleucus I Nicator, and took the role of “the king of the north”. (Daniel 11:27)

    All the details of this vision are being fulfilled from the time of ancient Persia, in chronological order. It is true that this vision is variously interpreted. As one can see, it has a lot of details. Therefore the insightful person is able to detect any error or sophistry. (Daniel 12:10)

    • AJ Drew

      Y’know, when one *both* claims that gawd has left the building, and yet then states that some shit will happen cuz gawd… hmm. But thank you for taking the time to type all that, unless you’re just a copy-paste-edit kinda gawd gal, in which case, No, in any case, gurl, wrong room.

    • Rebecca Gardner

      You should really stop smoking crack. It’s not doing you any favors.

      • AJ Drew

        so, was her use of “Persia” the clue, or just posting that *here*?

    • Rebecca Gardner

      OMG! This person Cut & Pasted this comment all over the internet. So incoherent and the whole BuyBull thing. Seriously? People still believe in these ancient fairy tales?

      • AJ Drew

        Yup. the search function of the Internetz… it burrrrnz.

      • JCF

        In a bunch of different languages (the Bible quotes. But her English, is well, of the “Engrish” sort).

        Loves me my ancient fairy tales (as you know)—but WAY too much to take them literally! (much less Talibangelically }-p )

    • agcons

      Your post is performance art, right?

    • EweTaw

      Jesus is going to smite you for all of that.

      • TuuxKabin

        SO going to smite her, and give ‘er a good bitch slap as well. Da’ nerve, da’ very, very rude nerve.

    • bob

      These are not real people . Just another deplorable with multiple emails and identities .

    • JellyDonut

      I took a spin class with Jesus…even he is voting for Hillary

    • ultragreen

      That’s a good imitation of a religious wingnut.

    • TuuxKabin

      Oh, Denuded, what an excellent screen writing skill you have there. Not.

  • Lazycrockett
    • Indeed. But surprising? Not…at…all!

    • clay

      Blake beat you by 23 minutes.
      Did Blake beat you for 23 minutes?
      Did Blake beat you off for 23 minutes?
      Joe.My.God. raises so many possibilities.

      • The fuck? Not everybody scrolls down all the way in these lengthy comments to see if something interesting has already been posted before.

        • Lazycrockett

          I’ll go punish myself with a tasty beverage. Im so Muriel.

        • JCF

          “Did Blake beat you off for 23 minutes?”

          I believe clay is joking around.

      • Lazycrockett

        Sorry didn’t scroll down. πŸ™

        • TuuxKabin

          It was in an earlier post/thread too, don’t matter, we can’t see every thang. It’s very interesting and pertinent information and anyone who can find that gets kudos.

  • bambinoitaliano

    I don’t know if Joe keep a record of the comments on the threads he post. The two threads on last night debate added up to about 4600 comments. That’s got to be one of the all time high for JMG no?

  • joe ho

    Had MSNBC on briefly.

    Kate Snow was asking Howard Dean, “Does it bother you that people are talking more about Trump today than about your candidate?”

    That’s the level most of MSNBC has devolved to.

    Liberals need to boycott CNN and MSNBC en masse..

    • ryan charisma

      no. no I won’t.
      Rachel Maddow is way more intelligent & does her homework more than any other newscaster out there.

      so no, I refuse.

      • Lazycrockett

        Joy Reid Forever!!

    • coram nobis

      “No it doesn’t bother me. The more he talks, especially the day after a major gaffe, the more he digs himself in. Like a dog gnawing a bone. Seen the latest about him and Miss Universe?”

    • EweTaw

      I saw that. Pissed me off.

    • CB

      But what are they saying?

    • AJ Drew

      Hrmm… well, is it a bad thing for your candidate if most of the talk is about the other one but all that talk is very negative? Hmm.

    • ultragreen

      Real liberals abandoned mainstream media a long time ago.

  • Blake J Butler

    I read a New York Times piece with a room of undecideds that were mostly outraged at his tax return reply that it was smart for him and to do. Most of them leaned towards her at the end of the debate.

    She don’t fuck around like Donnie boy does. This ain’t no reality show.

    https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKnxwpUqCkdb5Li/giphy.gif

    • AJ Drew

      hahaha, that gif is great.

    • THAT, I believe, was the moment when Hillary finally let herself believe, “Holy fucknuts, I totally won this.”

    • lymis

      I’m also pleased that her cute little “Whoo! Okay!” isn’t being used as some sort of unfitness measure, like the “Dean scream.” If anything, it humanized her a bit. I like that.

  • tco

    I stopped looking at Facebook for a while now because it was depressing the hell out of me, but after the debate I couldn’t resist. Don’t believe anyone is still undecided? Believe it. I saw people I know saying they hate both candidates and acting like the consequences of making a choice between them is negligible. I saw people with links to a video of Jill Stein responding to the debate in real time and saying, “I hope you get a chance to watch what our government COULD look like.” Basically, these people (who were Sanders supporters in the primaries, by the way, not conservatives) will vote third party or not vote at all from the looks of it. UGH!! The only good news is the people I’m talking about live in Oklahoma and Texas, not swing states, but still…

    At least the election will be over before I have to go see my family in OK and NY for the holidays.

    I miss the old days before social media when one didn’t know the extent of what assholes people really are.

    • joe ho
      • tco

        Believe me, people have tried point these things out. Supreme bitterness about the primary loss remains however, and she buys into the smear campaign directed toward Hillary. She has just double-downed because she’s invested in the idea that she’s taking the high road.

    • ultragreen

      People are assholes because they support politicians who are further to the left than Hillary Clinton? Now that’s really sad.

      • tco

        I never said that, and I didn’t mean that. How people say things certainly affect my opinion, though I didn’t go into detail here about that, and there are people across the political spectrum on my feed. Obnoxious speech isn’t limited to any segment of humanity. Anyway, that last comment was more of a general, wry comment on how everyone puts it all out there these days online, whereas before, we only got to hear viewpoints that made us cringe over holidays with the extended family, etc. rather than every day of the year from everybody.

      • lymis

        No, the problem is that they will be contributing to a Trump victory in the name of Clinton not being leftist enough. Like giving control of all three branches of government will help advance progressive ideas.

        They need to understand that politicians do NOT take into account the perceived opinions of those who stay home. They take into account what the people who vote for them demand (if they take anything into account at all.)

        This “Well, this’ll show them” idea simply doesn’t work.

  • coram nobis

    With this talk about NATO and terrorism, I’m oddly reminded of Lincoln’s letter to Gen. Joseph Hooker.

    I have heard, in such way as to believe it, of your recently saying that both the Army and the Government needed a Dictator. Of course it was not for this, but in spite of it, that I have given you the command. Only those generals who gain successes, can set up dictators. What I now ask of you is military success, and I will risk the dictatorship. The government will support you to the utmost of its ability, which is neither more nor less than it has done and will do for all commanders.

    http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/hooker.htm

    Needless to say, he was unsuccessful.

  • joe ho

    Sam Harris ‏@SamHarrisOrg 3h3 hours ago
    Even I was grading Trump on a curve last night. At one point I thought, “Those were sentences! The man is on FIRE.”

  • Michael R
  • Gustav2
    • Oh my, that is marvelous.

    • KnownDonorDad

      This is a very cute ad and I like it, but look at the overwhelming amount of dislikes it has. I firmly believe that if we had an election among internet users only, Trump would win. The people who constantly complain about SJWs, feminists, PC culture, etc. seem to be in his corner. Atheists in that camp are siding with Trump, whose running mate is a committed member of the Religious Right. I’ve never seen anything quite like this, and it’s troubling to put it mildly.

      • It’s the neckbeard basement dwellers with too much time on their hands who troll the internet looking for shit to down-vote and dislike, believing what they’re doing makes any difference on real-world outcomes.

        Not unlike those who circulate online petitions, only way more malignant in general.

      • PickyPecker

        Agreed. However, I think we can safely assume that there are many ‘internet users’ who will not bother themselves to actually go out and vote. It is easier to bitch and moan online than to take real action, no matter how small.

        • KnownDonorDad

          You’ve hit the nail on the head: will they actually bother to vote? Are they even registered?

      • Chris

        Also, keep in mind that there is an entire “reddit” army that’s exists only to freep the online polls and swarm these things with negatives. They regularly post links to these items and a few thousand of the most can do a lot of damage, even though they are a very small group, they are technically savvy and rabid. Most of the online polls that showed Trumo winning the debate came from a reddit list this morning that they were told to attack.

        • KnownDonorDad

          A very good point. There’s no way of knowing exactly how many of them there are. It worries me that internet-only terms like “alt-right” have become part of the public political discourse, however, not something I can recall seeing before.

    • Treant

      Vote for Hillary or the kale in your fridge will rot twice as fast!

    • Herald

      I love the ending

    • KCMC

      HA> you will be haunted and able to left swipe only the Rabbi’s daughter.

  • PLAINTOM

    Trump’s newest conspiracy will be that the debate was scheduled to allow too many voters to see his dismal failure.

  • bob

    Of course it did ! It was hyped for weeks and there wasn’t much else to watch. Hubby had to watch, but I was playing on the computer and listening to music with headphones, lol. I did watch some videos of the sniffling this morning and it most definitely was NOT a bad mic !

    • Here’s something you’ll find even more amusing then: Trump’s complaint wasn’t that the mic was too sensitive and thus picked up his maddening pre-schooler sniffling. It was that the sound levels weren’t set high enough, according to him.

      Probably because he failed so dismally in his rude attempts to interrupt and over-talk Clinton. That, no doubt, was the whole of his non-existent debate prep strategy.

  • PiperPine

    The question is A) how many undecided were swayed B) who watched all the way through and finally C) how long the impact is.

    It did seem like a strong debate but I don’t know if I’d say Clinton won a decisive debate so much as righted the ship of her campaign and landed some solid blows on trump. We’ll see.

    • Wasn’t Trump bragging about making $600+ million during last night’s debate? It seems odd for a guy that claims to be a billionaire grifting for what should be the equivalent of pennies to him.

      • Many now — including myself — are presuming Trump is basically stone broke and this corrupt political campaign is his only way to stave off bankruptcy.

        Trump is exactly the kind of guy who if he borrows billions of dollars would immediately add that debt to the plus side of his balance sheet.

    • bob

      He’ll match it with trump foundation money, lol.

    • ultragreen

      Trump’s sons are planning another deluxe African safari, so they need the money soon.

  • Chris

    Somewhat off topic, but I am in PA and up until yesterday all of Hillary’s ads were of the “Trump is unfit” variety, As of this morning there seems to be an ad blitz of positive ads highlighting her history of working for families and children, and using “Stronger Together”

  • bambinoitaliano
    • PickyPecker

      I hear they will be rolling out the College Tuition plan together!!

    • Hank

      Why is he NOT out on the trail, yet??? Bring back the Millennials to Hillary!!!

      • ultragreen

        Are you kidding? Sanders has been all over the place, most recently in Ohio visiting college campuses.

        • Hank

          Here in Florida, I have not seen or heard from him. Trust me, I am a big Bernie fan, and he did well against Hillary, bringing her to the left.

  • Texndoc

    The “dicks out for Harambe” alt-right racist Twitter crowd is out with NBC having delivered a “package” to the Hillary campaign 48 hours ago (the questions, silly). I expect Jr Trump to jump on this soon.

    Speaking of alt-right it’s amazing the lack of comments and harsh ones Milo is receiving on Trumpbart. His drag getup was the last straw for many and they are not in laughing moods on Trumpbart today of all days.

  • Jean-Marc in Canada

    Record breaking views here in Canada as well. The UK also had big numbers. The question for those of us outside looking in is, do sane Americans think it helped?

    • KCMC

      NPR described Mexican viewing and the 1 K + U.S. voters there. Fascinating. Peso rise tightly tied to Donald’s polling dropping.

  • Friday

    Interestingly, it smashed records for runs on the liquor store before a Presidential debate, I’m told. πŸ™‚

  • Here the debate started during our dinner, so we taped it and watched it later. But we already knew when to expect Hillary’s best zingers because we could hear our neighbors hooping and hollering as they watched it live, so we just made a mental note of the time. Our neighborhood sounded like it did when the Giants won the world series.

    • TuuxKabin

      “Sounds like” you have good neighbors. We hear that too, from the whole block of rear apartments when the Mets or Yankees are winning. Was too chilly to have the window and deck door open. All was quiet and we didn’t know a thing until this morning.

      • We’re lucky. It’s hard to find bad neighbors in San Francisco. There’s one minister who lives down the hill who hates us, we’re told, because we’re gay. Have never actually met the guy, but have noticed his glare as he drives by. But he and his wife fight on the sidewalk, and his son drinks and does drugs and stumbles home at all hours, so perhaps he glares at everyone. :0D

    • JCF

      Are you my neighbor, RV? πŸ˜‰

  • HZ81

    Trump got his micro-penis blown off last night. It’s was lovely.

  • ian

    Ugh. I watched with a friend of mine who is a political junky, but who cannot be a junky in this election cycle? I sometimes think the corporate media give trump free reign because of the ratings he draws. It’s a self-perpetuating cycle. trump says something, gets vast amounts for free coverage boosting ratings, which only reenforces the corporate medias rational for giving him even more air time etc. I try not to fall into that and change the channel when he’s on. Usually I just wait for the post debate analysis and the highlights, but this year, groan, I watched. I was very glad to see Hillary prevail and hopefully she continues to do so.

  • IamM

    Trump flopped bigly in front of yooge audience. Sad.

  • Jilljsmith4

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  • lymis

    Trump is claiming that the reason he did badly was because he was too nice to Hillary, and that he’s planning on being harsher next time. Presumably, someone from his campaign is going to at least try to sit on his chest and convince him that would be a bad idea. We’ll see.

    We’ll also see how that idea turns up in the VP debate.