On Masculinity And Homophobia [SHORT FILM]

The Huffington Post reports:

A riveting new short film is taking a gripping and unfiltered look at the effects of masculine ideals on both American culture and the actions and development of men who may be attracted to men. “American Male” is the winner of MTV’s Look Different Creator Competition, which invited up-and-coming filmmakers to create work surrounding the topic of privilege.

The powerful film examines the toxic masculinity often pervasive in groups of young, American men and the way disturbing interplay that can be found between same-sex desire and violent homophobia within that group. Filmmaker Michael Rohrbaugh told The Huffington Post that he wanted to showcase the ways in which young, American men navigate a culture of overcompensation to “prove their manhood,” resulting in a heavy psychological toll.

  • fuzzybits

    I’ve never dwelled on it. One minute I would be watching someone perform and the next minute playing in the dirt.

  • LackofFaithify

    SRSLY, “women play wind instruments…men play brass and percussion.” Here is my best advice for the director: Don’t project your issues on others and get over it.

    • Jean-Marc in Canada

      Talk about missing the point.

      The use of that very sentence makes the point, the idea that there are preconceived orientation, gender and/or sex parameters. Seriously, it’s you who needs to get over it.

      • LackofFaithify

        hey, stupid, it is a quote from the video. It is utterly ridiculous. It is amazing how fast people like you go from liking your comments one day, to rabid bitches in a second.

        • Jean-Marc in Canada

          Calm down dear. I know it’s a quote from the video. What I’m tasking you for is the notion that the director is projecting, he isn’t. His use of that quote is appropriate in conveying the message. You seem to have missed it.

          As for liking a comment one day and being bitchy the next. If someone makes a comment I like, agree with or find valid, I’ll like it, if not, I’ll say so. Don’t take it personally.

          • LackofFaithify

            When you title your video “American Male,” there is some projection going on.

          • RaygunsGoZap

            You having a rough day, Dr. Pill?

          • LeftyNYC

            The voiceover was meant to be a list of societal rules that the protagonist felt he had to follow. Every single one of them was absurd: how to dress, how to talk, how to walk, etc. Why was the musical instrument one particularly offensive to you?

          • I think he is assuming it was the director/filmmaker who is making that pronouncement…
            I assumed that all those silly rules were heard from guys who either follow those rules or followed them in the past, or heard about the rules from others and not the director/filmmaker “projecting”

      • Mike C

        The short is ironic and dark satire on the psyche of the American male. It is not a how-to video.

        • jsmukg

          Inept and leaden satire, but yes–it’s not advocacy.

  • bkmn

    Yeah, men are often stupid. Women too.

  • shellback

    Oh, oh. Joe’s back. Everyone, look busy.

    • Gustav2

      I’ve been doing a weeks worth of laundry the whole time he was gone.

      • Rex

        Really, a couple of jocks and a cum rag, how long could it take.

        • Jean-Marc in Canada

          Oh my…..come sit by me and the husbotter.

          • EweTaw

            Husbotter or husblotter? Who soaks up all that l’homme du lait?

        • Gustav2

          Socks, don’t forget the socks.

          • m_lp_ql_m

            Socks == pair of cum rags.

          • Rex

            Couldn’t find the cum rag, huh?

          • MeSoConfused

            Uh…assuming it’s two guys, there are two mouths and two manholes where that cum should go. Or are we talking about a single guy spanking the monkey?

          • clay

            Female student, after complemented on her choice of socks– “Thanks, and they’re new, so they’re not crinckly, yet.”

            All I could was stare at her and hope another student redirected the discussion before I spoke.

    • clay

      (hide the booze)

      • Canadian Observer

        Can’t the gold pucks are in the way.

        • Rex

          I thought something tasted metallic.

      • Ragnar Lothbrok

        Zip up

    • jefe5084
      • greenmanTN

        Yummo!

        • Robincho

          That was the hot, gay, but reclusive Marx Brother, no?…

      • David Walker

        I soooooooooooo wished he was my uncle and he’d come visit or invite me to Hollywood. One learns to deal with disappointment when one is a youth. “You mean not all Walkers are related?” I think I took that worse than the “no Santa Claus” thing.

        • Robincho

          What you’re saying, then, is that you hoped

          (a) He’d invite you to Hollywood, and then
          (b) You’d go visit him, and then
          (c) You’d BOTH come

          [Moi, je suis un homme qui peut lire entre les lignes…]

  • Nychta

    Reminds me of the culture I grew up in (South Side of Chicago, white, Roman Catholic), where stereotypical gender norms were unquestioningly valued. It was like growing up in a straight jacket.

    • Ray Taylor

      Just got around to watching Shameless US. All about So side Chicago.

    • Hank

      So, when did you finally head up to “Boy’s Town”??

      • EweTaw

        He ain’t heavy. He’s my warmer bruder.

        • stuckinthewoods

          What a surprise. I haven’t thought of that phrase since I was a kid in Germany.

      • Nychta

        Ha, funny you should ask. I’m a female-bodied person, but headed to Boy’s Town nonetheless. In my late 20s (late 70s) I lived at Belmont and Halsted, just west of Boy’s Town. I used to sunbathe at the Belmont Rocks. It was the only lake shore spot where I could soak in the rays and not be harassed by hetero dorks.

        • Gaiboi66

          Hubby and I were born in the west suburbs of Chicago. After college (for me) and shortly after he turned 20, we also moved to Boystown. Belmont and Halsted are now considered the main vein of Boystown. We loved it there and still do!

          • Nychta

            Glad to hear it! I haven’t lived there since ’81, and I figure things have changed. When I was there, Belmont and Halsted was west of Boy’s Town and just east of the blues bars.

        • Hank

          I moved to Chicago in the mid-80’s. I lived on Marine Dr. just north of Belmont. I do recall at least one lesbian bar in the hood. I used to bike down to the Belmont Rocks to work on my “tan lines” AND cruise. Could not go into the water, because my feet would turn blue due to the cold of Lake Michigan. Boystown would go from the lake to Lincoln, at least.

    • Statistics Palin

      I grew up among white Catholics in the South at the end of the Civil Rights Era. Father had a personality disorder which made him obsessively puritanical. He also kept my brother and me isolated from other kids. The neighbors made jokes about my brother and me being chained to our beds. He was, however, my hero because he saved my aunt by throwing himself between her and am exploding heater when I was 3 months old. Although we were never close because the damage from the explosion precluded me from bonding with him, he was my only role model. The two values tried to imitate were heroism and compassion. When I tried to emulate my father by befriending an outcast student called “gay,”. my father began an anti-gay campaign that lasted the rest of his life. More than 40 years. Some people tell me I should be grateful because he wanted to keep me from something dangerous.

      I find little sympathy for these straight boys in their struggles with masculinity.

      • Nychta

        What I saw in the video was a guy who couldn’t buy into the norm but didn’t (yet) have a way out.

        • Statistics Palin

          I understand. He also showed an anthropologist’s eye in describing the conventions of his subculture. It was interesting.

          That said, I’d like to have his problems because they at least show he was not raised in isolation as I was. I grew up in a village in a swamp at the mouth of the Mississippi. Kept from playing with the few other children there were by OCPD father. Beaten for trying.

    • Atlanta Joe

      That avatar looks like it came straight out of my Little Flower HS (79th and Wood St.) 1968 yearbook..have we met? or slept together? That face actually looks familiar~ Or do I sniff a Rita, Leo or Quigley South boy :-)?

      • Nychta

        OMG! I did attend LIttle Flower. Graduated in 1967. My avatar face looks familiar ’cause helmet hair for girls was the look back then. Among boys, the more daring created “surfer streaks” in their hair with the help of hydrogen peroxide. Other boys adopted Beatles haircuts, which distressed the authority figures. 😀

        You were a year behind me. We both survived. Yay!

  • Jean-Marc in Canada

    I found this rather provocative and evocative. Tragically, for many men, gay or straight, this is the world they are forced to deal with. Preconceived notions of what is or isn’t masculine, straight or otherwise. If you watch this and your only take away is “that’s not how I act” or “the director is projecting”, you’ve missed the point and should perhaps just shush and let the adults have a conversation.

    • LackofFaithify

      Ah yes, the you don’t agree with what I say, so I will call you a child. Oh we are not worthy to tread in your tracks.

      • Gustav2

        Now, that is enough out of both of you, if you keep this up I am going to call nanny and have you put to bed without supper!

        • LackofFaithify

          You never let me have any fun! *storms off and slams the door to his room

          • Gustav2

            😉

          • BobSF_94117

            Hold on! Where’s that nanny?

          • Jean-Marc in Canada

            Guilty

        • Jean-Marc in Canada

          No need to call the nanny, he’s tied up at the moment 😉

      • Jean-Marc in Canada

        Again honey, you’re taking this far too personally.

        • EweTaw

          People are just so touchy these days. Sheesh.

          • TuuxKabin

            Ya’ know? Ya’d think it was a Monday morning, not Friday evening. Double sheesh.

          • EweTaw

            It’s almost alcohol-o-clock here at the eastern edge of the Great Basin. Time to make a few calls and host a small cocktail party to celebrate the weekend. That will definitely improve on my already reasonably good mood (I hope).

  • BobSF_94117

    Uh… if Joe is off somewhere on a bus, who started the thread?

    • clay

      1) Joe has an assistant.
      2) Joe has Shelley.
      3) Joe has a timer.
      d) all of the above.

      Take your pick.

      • BobSF_94117

        My money’s on Shelley.

      • teeveedub

        Shelley has an assistant. It’s Joe.

      • Rex

        Psychic powers.
        Telepathic posting.

      • m_lp_ql_m

        Bus driver came too soon.

        • clay

          bus driver :: train driver?

    • Rex

      He said he had a couple posts scheduled to go out this afternoon. Technology is amazing.

  • Lazycrockett

    Don’t join a Frat. Got it.

    • clay

      Thank (god) I was an introvert,
      and not Anglo,
      and paying for school, myself;
      never was at risk of that.

      • sfbob

        Thank god I went to a college that didn’t recognize fraternities (by student body vote) so there was essentially no frat life on campus or even off campus. But I attended, during the late 60’s and early 70’s, a school that had a very good academic reputation yet was also infamous for drugs and drug busts. Stony Brook–“the Berkeley of the East.”

    • I joined a coed frat. They hazed but not in the typical frat fashion.

      • My old fraternity got in trouble earlier this year because some of the pledges did 20 push=ups. Hazing is illegal now and many schools are even stricter than the state law requires. And what I went through for hazing wasn’t that bad, especially compared to the crap I see in movies.

    • safari

      I think modern frats aren’t quite that bad. I knew some gay people in them and that was almost 15 years ago.

    • Gerry Fisher

      LOL…that would help.

  • j.martindale

    Boy, he has a lot of rules. Must be exhausting to be manly. I wouldn’t know. (I actually don’t care, either.) Conformity is conformity is conformity.

    • Gustav2

      I grew up with 3 brothers, thems the rules.

      • clay

        I grew up with two older brothers, and did flower arranging, danced ballet, cooked, played violin, clarinet, piano, harpsichord and organ.

        . . . and wrestled and played football until a car accident shattered my shoulder.

        Some sub-cultures and families and individuals are more conformist and some are less conformist.

        • Gustav2

          My hubby’s family was far worse. The hubby still acts like “Gay” things are not his thing. He avoids anything that might be perceived as gay or feminine. He still to this day doesn’t really know how to properly clean house or do laundry.

          • clay

            Ok, seriously? I mean, he’s not just telling you he can’t do the cleaning or the laundry, right? 😉

          • Gustav2

            Yes, he has tried to clean house, it’s like someone who never learned how to tie their shoes. He’s an OK cook, does the grocery shopping and keeps the kitchen counters clean…but the rest, forget it.

            His idea of cleaning the whole house is running the vacuum in the living room and dining room. That’s it, just vacuum the floor in those two rooms and “I cleaned the house.”

            BTW he would ping your Gaydar.

          • Reality.Bites

            I have no idea of the size of your house but doesn’t he count the bedroom as part of the house? I could sort of see how if you have some rooms that only see occasional use he might not vacuum and count it as done.

          • Gustav2

            We don’t use the living room except for company, the dining room a bit more often so all they need dusting and vacuuming Then the 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, eat in kitchen with a 20 x 20 rec room in the basement.

            He has ‘cleaned’ the bathroom if he wipes up his own mess.

          • William

            He sounds dreamy!

          • jmax

            Wait, he’s an OK cook, shops, keeps the kitchen counters clean and vacuums occasionally, and you’re complaining? Could I interest you in a swap? 🙂

          • Gustav2

            I was pointing out how male centered his upbringing was.

          • edrex

            I agree. I love my husband, but goddamn! Keeps the kitchen counters clean? That’s hot.

          • William

            I’ll trade mine and throw in a dog of your choice.

          • Gaiboi66

            Lol! I love that!

          • William

            The more you pretend not to know how to do things, the less you are asked to do them.

        • Sashineb

          You’re very talented! May I ask, of all of the instruments that you play, which one has been the most challenging to learn?

        • edrex

          I assume it was the harpsichord that outed you?

      • j.martindale

        Three brothers, two sisters, and Dad was a Marine Major, fighter pilot. Well, we all have our disappointments. (Just kidding–Dad ended up being very accepting..after a decade or two.)

    • another_steve

      “Conformity is conformity is conformity.”

      Blind adherence to PC notions of masculinity and femininity is also “conformity.” Some men are just natural brutes and some women are just natural fems.

      Nothing wrong with that.

  • Rex

    Good Lawd, from the looks of it, I’ve never been masculine.

    • LackofFaithify

      Bet you played the Oboe too! lol

      • Rex

        No, but I was good with my mouth, still am.

        • LackofFaithify

          Wind instrument, just like the movie said! haha

          • Rex

            But such beautiful music from the instrument.

        • Adam King

          It’s always good to practice your embouchure.

        • That double tonguing came in handy I’m sure.

      • William

        I majored in skin flute.

        • When I was a freshman in HS a guy who I thought was really cute came up to me during gym class, surprising the hell out of me as I was somewhat of a pariah. He opened the short conversation by saying “I hear you play a musical instrument…”
          In my ignorance I began (happily) blathering something about not playing an instrument but I like to sing and dance…he interrupted and said “yeah, I hear you like to play the skin flute” at that point, humiliated I realized what he was up to…

  • PickyPecker

    Needs more male nudity.

  • OdieDenCO

    wow, that video could have been a documentary on growing up in the 60s in a steel town is southern Illinois. lived it, been there, done that, not fully over it!

    • Hank

      Granite City???

      • EweTaw

        Deep Couch City.

      • OdieDenCO

        proud grad of GCHS, class of 1979

        • Hank

          My Ex grew up in Granite City. We were introduced by a mutual friend, when I was living in Chicago. I moved down there and lived in GC for 3 months until we found a place in St. Louis.

        • astroworf

          Always thought of Granite city as metro east, but I can attest it was like that growing up in the 60’s about 90 miles south of you, too.

  • EweTaw

    I saw this yesterday at “another gay blog” and it just pissed me off.

  • Bill

    It is simultaneously funny and sad that the societal prison heterosexual men built for gay men actually set gay men free and imprisoned heterosexual men.

  • mattkorey

    This retrograde video looks like it was made by Tony Perkins. It’s completely absurd.

    • another_steve

      I didn’t quite get the point of it, to be honest. Hyper-masculinity is a bad thing? I don’t think so. Same with hyper-femininity.

      The trick to a successful life is to be yourself and do as little harm to others as is humanly possible.

      That applies to super-masculines, super-fems, and everyone in-between.

      • BobSF_94117

        The guy wouldn’t be having so many problems if he weren’t doping. Oh, the other hand, what do I know about purposely butching it up for appearances sake…

  • bob

    Silly “straight” guys ! I find that type repulsive and will be glad when they cease to exist !

    • Jean-Marc in Canada

      I wonder if they ever will. Society seems to be resisting mightly to clinging on to this archetype.

    • m_lp_ql_m

      Now there are some truly great straight allies, but the real repulsive types are the ones who claim to be allies just so they don’t scare away the girls.

  • Jmdintpa

    i dont mean to demean this film or the guys experience but damn im so glad im gay. i grew up in the 70s in the south. i didnt feel the need to do any of this. i didnt really care. i know my experience was only mine but all this bullshit that so man hetero people seem to live is just sad.

    • Jean-Marc in Canada

      I’ve known my fair share who went through this, though as you say, everyone’s experience is different. I’ll say this much about the film, the way people are responding to it, either for or against, it’s provoking discussion.

      • EweTaw

        Regardless of us all having difference experiences, I thank my lucky stars every day that I’m gay. I’ve said as much to others and have always been met with reactions of “Really? You really mean that?” The ignorance is something I just have to endure. No sense arguing with stupid.

        • Jean-Marc in Canada

          As do I. I love my gayness, I embrace it.

          • EweTaw

            I suppose that’s why we embrace being called gay.

          • Gaiboi66

            Me too JM in C!

        • Gaiboi66

          You’re right. My favorite quote is “Irony is wasted on the stupid.” I’ve always loved the fact that I’m gay. I love the evolution as well as being part of the fight for equality on every level. Those who have never had to fight for anything, will never understand its residuals.

          • EweTaw

            Yeah. I’m ashamed to admit that I’m rather smug regarding all the shit I’ve had to fight through to obtain what respect and equal rights I now have. We older gaylingettes deserve to be proud, but sometimes I lose perspective.

    • William

      I dated a frat boy who went through all this. His senior year he did the absolute minimum fraternity-wise. He said he could never come out to his family and was moving to Denver after graduation. Last time I googled, he was still there.

  • Jmdintpa

    i dont think my computer is working right… it keeps cutting off before the fuck scene… i wanted to see that guy get it over the ping pong table ….. oops i better be quite

  • Scoot

    The video is a little hamfisted, but it makes a good point about how there is intense pressure for men to behave in a very specific way. I think if you’re lucky, you manage to find other people in the world who don’t care about this kind of performance.

    I have an older brother who was (and honestly still is) constantly policing me about how I walk, talk, and all these exact same things because he was the one who was terrified to be perceived as not manly, and my parents weren’t much different. But I was super lucky to find other people, male and female, gay and straight, in every stage of my life who didn’t care so much about whether or not I adhered to these rules.

    I wish I could tell other weird little kids who don’t fit societal constructs that there are people out there who will actually like you better if you don’t fit in, and those relationships are way more interesting and satisfying, so just ignore these stupid rules.

    • Xuuths

      It gets better.

      • David Walker

        Actually, I was going through the videos in the gay section of my YouTube channel and came across some of the Broadway/touring Broadway It Gets Better videos. I do hope they had an effect on at least some of the kids watching them.

    • EweTaw

      You’re lucky to have found friends who were like you. To this day, no matter how much I press my parents, aunts, uncles, cousins they all insist I’m the only gay member of an enormous extended Mormon family. The odds of that being true are like 0. Despite my trying to get along, I don’t have much in common with my entire family. Mom still tells all her friends that I have a girlfriend and am solidly heterosexual. She likes to believe my partners over the years have all just been bowling buddies or something. I’ve learned not to rub her nose in it. She’s such a delicate little flower. And, of course, they still pray that I’ll be cured and return to “The Church” and accept the gospel. The stories I can tell.

      • Mormons? Highest concentration of closet queens I’ve ever seen and it takes some doing to beat out the Baptists.

        • EweTaw

          I agree completely.

        • William

          All my Arkansas cousins are Baptists, that probably explains why there aren’t any out gays in the bunch.

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          • Todd20036

            Flagged.

          • Jeffrey

            I’m originally from Arkansas. My BFF had a super religious baptist uncle, married with kids. He owned a convenience store and guys knew to stop in when he wasn’t busy and he’d give you the finest blow job. We called him Cousin Blowjob…still do, actually. Eventually he did it to a fifteen year old and is in prison for 20 years.

        • Robincho

          Dear Houndentenor Forum:

          I never thought I’d be writing to you like this! But since you brought it up, I gotta tell you about the time I found myself between the sheets with this ultra-hawt Mormon “elder” who might’ve been maybe half my age. He showed up at my house one afternoon, and before I knew what was going on we were all over each other like ducks on June bugs! I still break into a cold sweat just thinking about it! You’ve never seen such unbridled lust from someone who was barely old enough to pin on his own elderbadge! Etc., etc., etc.!

          (A true story, actually. He’d be in his late twenties by now, and I often wonder what might’ve become of him. If ever he allowed his true nature to emerge, then the man/menz he’s with is/are WAY fortunate. Dude was astounding…)

      • William

        We aren’t Mormon, but I am the only officially gay in my extended family. One of my mother’s cousins is nearly 80, and except for that brief period where he married the wrong girl, has always been single. On my father’s side, a 50 year cousin is still single and he hasn’t had a girlfriend in around 25 years.

        • EweTaw

          Have you outright inquired if there are any friends of Dorothy in your family? I’m sure there are in mine, but everyone keeps it a BIG secret. I suspect they think we’ll all meet up and breed.

          • William

            No, I’ve never worked up the nerve. Cousin Buddy, the elderly one, he makes Paul Lynde look butch.

          • EweTaw

            LOL! It might be worth striking up a renewed friendship with him. One of my tasks in life is to document all of the dirt and amusing stories in my family, much to their great fear. I have an aunt who has turned into a treasure mine of embarrassing anecdotes. My mother constantly chastises her insisting she’s making it all up. Other members of the family assure me that she isn’t.

          • William

            After my great-Grandmother had a stroke, she was paralyzed on one side, and she lost her filter. She started telling all the deep dirty family secrets. After a while, her two daughters wouldn’t let any family visit her unless at least one of them was there to redirect the conversation.

          • EweTaw

            Sounds terribly southern.

          • William

            Smack in the middle of Arkansas.

          • Statistics Palin

            Sounds like the basis of the Tennessee Williams film “Suddenly Last Summer.”. Poor Liz Taylor almost had her brain turned into a salad to keep her from revealing dark family secrets.

          • Catherine Holly: “Cut the truth out of my brain… is that what you want Aunt Vi ? Well you can’t. Not even God can change the truth that we were nothing but a pair of…“
            Mrs. Venable: “Doctor! “
            Catherine Holly: “It’s the truth! “
            Mrs. Venable: “See how she destroys us with her tongue for a hatchet? You’ve got to cut this hideous story out of her brain. “
            Catherine Holly: “How much are you willing to pay for that Aunt Vi?”

          • David Walker

            Do it, EweTaw. The sooner the better. And record the conversations. A) Oral histories are fascinating. B) If you have to take notes, it can slow the whole thing down; when you record it, you’re more in a conversation mode.

          • I am an amateur genealogist, the only one in my immediate family who is interested for more than five minutes about my family tree. Researching my great great grandfather George Clay Whitney (mother’s side) had me going “hmmmm”
            His close friend Eugene Giddings lived on a neighboring farm, they enlisted in the 22nd Michigan infantry together (civil war) and I have to assume remained close for life since my great great grandfather at some point separated from but never divorced his wife, living alone and indigent didn’t leave enough money to pay for his own burial, Eugene paid for it.
            My great great grandfather didn’t marry until he was 32, which was a bit odd I think. One of 13 siblings, all survived well into old age – very unusual for the time – half of his siblings never married – also unusual.
            Eugene was a life long bachelor…and cute too
            (top photo Eugene)
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/eb01cf870c52f5d135e56fd64be67008437b421fd166ac60a2c65d2c6c87bd56.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3f56a1e65bdc49eff2df64a2cf6a4e1563f29c6e297b025b2159fcbbb27cba6a.jpg

          • CanuckDon

            It’s interesting to hear that half of his siblings stayed single. Three of the six uncles that I had remained single all their lives. These were all men born in the 1920s and in the lower middle class. I wasn’t very close to any of them…two had died when I was a young boy…so I wasn’t able to throw gaydar their way.

            I wonder if the pressure to get married wasn’t as prevalent back then for men as it became later on in the 1960s and ’70s….and likely being in the lower classes of society helped as well as far as not having to keep up some sort of “respected” image. Whether these men felt that pressure is hard to say.

          • stuckinthewoods

            truly wonderful.

          • EweTaw

            As you may know, Mormons spend half of their lives excavating genealogy. SLC is the world headquarters, with the two major genealogy software companies right here in our lovely state and, of course, the genealogy center of “The Church” . It appears one great uncle of mine might have been gay. He was a life long bachelor, musical, danced and friend to lots of sympathetic divorced ladies, and generally all around “artistic.” But no one will ever commit to the idea that he was gay. One uncle did submit that my great uncle did spend a lot of time in Liberty Park in the 30s and 40s (a famous old gay hangout with notorious rest rooms) and he loved hanging out at the Union Pacific and Rio Grand train stations. Uh hum.

            Anyway, as you can imagine the one thing Mormons do not document is whether or not a person is gay. That is one thing they go out of their way to eliminate from one’s personal history.

      • greenmanTN

        I dealt with that for many years, when YOU are out of the closet but afterward your parent(s) are hiding it. Years ago I was visiting my parents with my partner (my mother walked in on us having sex, but that’s whole other story). My aunt was there, and my partner made some comment about being gay.

        “WELL, SHIT!” said my mother, because nothing had been directly said to the extended family and the beans just got spilled.

        My aunt: “Oh hell! Like we didn’t know?!”

        • EweTaw

          LOL! Good for your aunt. I met a guy at a tea dance many years ago. We hit it off, but getting our jollies in the bar’s rest room was not an option. He suggested we go to his home. Why not? So, he’s straddling me doing a backward cowboy in a bedroom. Both of us naked as we can be. His father walked in on us and stood and stared. Turned out it was his parents home and their bedroom. Had it been my parents . . . well, I’m sure we would have never talked to one another ever again. LOL!

          • greenmanTN

            I might have to look up Backward Cowboy. (I’m sure I’ve seen it and done it,
            but I didn’t label it.

            So yeah my mom just came barreling in to the room while we were having sex, though trying to be REALLY quiet about it. And it was like Full Monty buttsex.

            Due to some shifting in the foundation the lock didn’t work,

            My only comment to her was, “Well, I bet that’s the last time you open that door without knocking!”

            I mean what else are you gonna say?

          • Robincho

            Backward Cowboy is when you’re having an invigorating ride on the baloney pony, except instead of looking at where you and he are headed, you’re checking out where you’ve been…

          • EweTaw

            LOL!

        • David Walker

          Details on “that other story,” please. Sounds…ummm… juicy.

          • greenmanTN

            What is there to say? I was getting schtupped, but being VERY quiet about it. The door wouldn’t lock, but we were very quiet about it. Suddenly she barged in right in the room and my legs were in the air!

            Embarrassing? Oh, hell yes.

            My only (later) comment to her was, “Well I bet that’s the last time you open that door with knocking!” What else can you say?

          • David Walker

            “Dinner ready already?”
            “Just put the laundry on the dresser, please.”
            “Do you know if it’s raining yet?”

        • stuckinthewoods

          My sister was the one who told me I was gay.

    • Gerry Fisher

      Agreed that it painted in very broad strokes. That being said, I think it would resonate more with younger viewers whose testosterone is still surging like crazy.

    • Bomer

      My older brother is the same way. He was always going on about how I gesture, talk, walk (I dislocated both hips when I was 2 years old…of course my walk is a little off), and how it would affect how other people thought of me (and him…mostly how it would reflect on him). My answer was, and still is, the same: I don’t care. If people are that shallow that gestures, gait, what-have-you is what they base their decision as to whether they like me or not on then they can just fuck right off. I’m better off with out people like that in my life.

    • Todd20036

      I am 48.

      I wear short shorts.

      Propellor beanies.

      I play video games,

      I watch cartoons.

      I go to work in khakis and G Star Raw button downs

      I like trance and rock

      I am masculine, but I don’t do stereotype masculine.

      I am me.

      My father never accepted who I was, up until his death. I respected his wishes when I visited him, and didn’t wear anything too outrageous, but I accepted myself over what my father’s expectations were.

      And btw, even in college, not everyone looks THAT built.

      Just saying.

    • DaveW

      On a plane Monday I was reading the recent issue of NYT style magazine. Not the men’s issue, it comes out shortly. The stares and furtive glances, I got up once to let the window guy next to me out and the whole aisle behind me could see the cover. So funny how it was clear people thought it odd while I enjoyed the ads and articles. I’m not effemi ate, I just don’t care what other people think. I never have. Why would I? Most people are uninteresting slobs, why would I be affected by those opinions??? Honestly I’m appalled how people look going out of the house. I saw two guys change clothes in the bathroom from suits to ripped shorts and t shirts I would only wear painting. Why??? At least they had nice chests. Point is why do we care what other people think, be yourself. I feel sorry for these folks, they must feel inadequate or boring, so look for satisfaction from others.

  • bob
    • Bj Lincoln

      I needed that.

    • CatApostrophe

      lol “I gotta gay…GO!”

    • greenmanTN

      I love that skit.

    • William

      I’d watch that match!

  • AJ Drew

    Umm… the top photo on this post… I’d go for the guy on the far right, no doubt. Yasss. Rest of those guys look like poseur whatevers.

    Oh… that was kinda the point of the film short? Ah. Well then, well done!

  • djfinance

    That party looks TERRIBLE.

  • greenmanTN

    This actually resonated with me quite a bit, not because I’m so masculine but because I felt that pressure to fit in. I was informed by a well-meaning friend that I carried my books “the wrong way,” so I got a backpack. I was definitely not a jock, but an art nerd. And there were times when I couldn’t see past what was happening right then, and imagine a better future.

    I have a scar on the back of my right hand, thanks to something they called the “sissy test.” You held your hand out and left someone scratch your hand in the same place 100 times. They didn’t really dig their fingernails in or anything, but even light pressure 100 times will break the skin and eventually you will bleed. It wasn’t so much a gay/straight thing, but whether you could take it without pulling away or complaining. I still have that scar to this day. I wasn’t a “sissy,” just an idiot for allowing someone to do that to me.
    .
    I know a lot of people think the “It Gets Better” campaign if trite and facile, but it’s true, your current situation is not a permanent situation and young people need to remindef of that.

    This is not intended as a beg for sympathy, just a statement of the truth. I’m not that kid anymore, it’s just something that informs my view of the world.

    (And about three seconds after I hit send I will regret this.)

    • EweTaw

      I had a sibling recently tell me that it was possible to pick out gay people because we always wear green on Thursday. Whot? Yes, that’s still a real mythical belief among the poor heterosexuals in my neck of the woods.

      • greenmanTN

        I thought that was ancient history. Wear green on a certain day, there was something about if a man had an earring in one ear it meant something’ but I forget whether the right or left was the ‘gay’ ear.

        • PickyPecker

          ‘Left is right…right is wrong’

          • greenmanTN

            Oh, OK. Thanks. I don’t know if I will ever get used to those big round things in people’s ears though. I mean it’s not my body and not my concern, but it still kind of surprises me a bit. “Are you aware there is a giant hole in your ear? If you’re not careful a robin might build a nest in there.”

          • greenmanTN

            I hope you know that 3 months from now I will suddenly think, “Wait a minute, which ear was the gay ear?”

            I actually had my right ear pierced once, at a New Years Eve party and drunk off my ass. (I was 19) An ice cube served as anesthetic, and the cork from a wine bottle to brace the lobe in place. The next morning I woke up and thought “when did this happen?!” and took the earring out. So I had a pierced ear for about 12 hours.

          • David Walker

            Earrings were OK. What I could NEVER remember was the hankie code. Great idea if you were a Univac.

          • I pierced my own ear when I was 19 (1970) also the right side. The fashion/fad was just beginning and no self-respecting straight boy would dream of doing such a thing! Somewhere along the line some adventurous soul had his left ear pierced and declared that the left was the straight side…or some such nonsense

            I stopped wearing an earring this year, so…

          • When I see someone with them, I see old issues of National Geographic of the Amazon tribe with the ear and lip pucks. Thank dog the lip pucks haven’t caught on like the ear disks have.

          • greenmanTN

            “Yes, by all means tell us all about your tribal customs, Chad.”

          • Haha!!! When I see those huge grommet things I feel like an old man. I’m like “Dude, you do know that in a few years you’ll want a regular job and those are going to be an obstacle, right?” Or worse, when they just take them out and they have these saggy loops of earlobes hanging almost to their shoulders….seriously not sexy or edgy. Just loops of hanging skin.

            Now that I’ve typed that I’m even older!

          • bdsmjack

            Left is active, right passive.

      • bdsmjack

        I read somewhere that Green And Yellow was ‘gay code.’

        • EweTaw

          And who knew? Nobody ever told me.

          • Helen Damnation ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            God damn it I still haven’t received my copies of “The Gay Agenda” or even the basic “How To Be Gay”. I’m tired of waiting.

          • 2guysnamedjoe

            You haven’t even seen the PowerPoint presentation yet?

        • William

          What’s that old rhyme… Green and yellow, blow a fellow?

          • BobSF_94117

            So, leprechauns?

      • Gianni

        I distinctly remember in high school there was a joke that Thursday was Queers Day and wearing anything yellow or green or with yellow/green color in it meant you were queer. Of course, they’d rag on any guy (it didn’t apply to girls) who forgot and wore something with those colors in it. Just more str8 boy nonsense.

        • Way back in the dark ages it was RED socks on Thursdays, that’s how the fruits/pansies/fags/queers identified each other…or some such nonsense

      • Bomer

        I wear black on Thursday..and pretty much every other day.

        • EweTaw

          That’s all I wear when I visit New York. Triple black is my street disguise. Here in the land of sweet spirits I tend to clad myself in khaki.

          • Bomer

            I’m just lazy. With a largely black wardrobe I don’t have to worry about color coordination since everything matches ^_^

    • bdsmjack

      Thank you for posting.

    • CharlestonDave

      Thanks for sharing, G-man, and I hope you don’t regret.

      I, too, experienced the carry-my-books-the-wrong-way thing. Apparently boys carry schoolbooks at their side with a straight elbow, and only girls carry books with elbow bent, next to their torso. These sorts of differences are very important when you’re 12. One unmerciful little brat kept teasing me about it and knocking books out of my grip until I finally bloodied his nose at the school bus stop. Problem went away, although as I got older I started carrying my books at my side.

      And I, too, had a pierced ear for a while (left earlobe for me). Back then, it was original and different and daring. I wore a custom-designed stud for a few years (never a dangle, not my style, but would occasionally switch to a different stud), then began to notice that a lot of guys were getting piercings. So I took mine out, and now it’s grown over.

      I think I finally figured out that it’s sufficiently unique to just be myself.

      • greenmanTN

        Yeah, the old “you don’t carry your books the right way” thing.

        I mostly managed to avoid physical fights, though it was threatened often.

        I don’t know if this is sly, or mean, or whatever, but my great aunt and her daughter were “Avon ladies,” so that’s what we got every Christmas etc. nobody ever used it, it was just there.

        You know how there are those downward vents in many school lockers? Well if you put 5 or 6 Avon perfumes in a ziplock bag, you put the “mouth” of the bag up one of those vents, hold up the end, and it will drain right in and the person whose locker it is will smell of awful perfume for the rest of school year!

        So it wasn’t like I was a total patsy, I believed in retaliation.

    • wds

      Do not regret that post … period. What you said is true and valuable …

    • Michael Abbett

      My “sissy test” was whether or not you knew to stay on the ground while 5 guys were pummeling the crap out of you in a small redneck Midwestern mill town in the late 70’s during the high school years. When I was forced to play football they’d play a game called “smear the queer.” Guess who got the honor of being the queer every time. Years later I find that some of my tormentors ended up being extremely closeted gay men. Married, of course, and some of them the same kind of muscle douches like the guy in this video. I can see a lot of those people in this guy’s eyes. My wounds healed over time. Theirs rarely do.

      • greenmanTN

        That is worse than what I endure and I’m sorry you went through. For me it wasn’t violence (mostly) but the constant treat of violence.

        i prefer not to dwell on it because what’s the point? You can’t re-do it, it’s over and done with, so do what what works for you.

      • David Walker

        We misfits were thrown to the ground and held there. Shirts were ripped open over the stomach (in the case of T-shirts, just hiked up above the stomach), and the slapping and punching began. I think it was called “molly hopping,” and I have no idea where that came from. It hurt like hell, and there were a couple of times I couldn’t stand up for several minutes, especially if fists were involved. As with any form of aversion therapy, it didn’t work.

        • Richard, another Canuck

          We used to call that a pink belly and I had more than my fair share of being held down and pummeled.

          • greenmanTN

            We had what was called a “wedgie” or a “flossie.” A wedgie is fairly obvious, you jerk the back of someone’s underwear up and wedge it up their ass. A Flossie was when you grab both the back and front of someone’s underwear and pulled them back and forth and “flossed” their ass with it.

    • David Walker

      One of high school’s Great Embarrassing Moments was to have the gym teacher come up to me in a crowded hallway and way louder than his voice needed to be, told me that girls carry their books across their chest, as I was doing. Well, I started the “boys carry books at their side” thing and spent too much of the remainder of high school picking up books that were knocked out of my butch-looking hand. Backpacks and tote bags hadn’t been invented and any kind of satchel, like a brief case, was too expensive.

      • greenmanTN

        WTF? Girls hold their books to their chest, boys hold them to their side. When did this rule get established? Yeah, I looked really butch constantly picking my books up off the floor, hence the backpack.

        • David Walker

          Around the time of the invention of dust bunnies. Dust bunnies were still not around when I was born, so it would have had to have been sometime after that.

      • BobSF_94117

        Trust me, a briefcase would not have made things better…

        • David Walker

          You’re probably right. I was just thinking in terms of an acceptable complement to my horn-rimmed glasses.

          • BobSF_94117

            During a particularly clumsy and dopey period around 11-12 yrs-old, I managed to break/sit on three pairs of glasses in two months. Exasperated, my parents replaced the last pair with black-rim glasses (pretty common for kids at the time) but will football-shaped metal bits on the corners. Footballs! ME?!?!?! I was a walking fashion statement and the statement was mockery…

          • David Walker

            That was very butch, Bob. No thought given to contacts?

          • BobSF_94117

            I don’t think anyone wore them back then (~1970) and, if they were available, they probably cost way more than black-rims from the optometry store on base (former Army brat). Plus, I’m sure I would have lost them 🙂

    • When I was in grade school the “sissy test” went as follows:

      Hold out your hand and look at your fingernails (never “nails” btw always fingernails)
      Now look at the bottom of your shoe

      Real boys, it seems, look at their nails with the palm facing you and fingers bent well below shoulder height,
      Sissies hold the hand out in front of them face height palm facing away
      Real boys, it seems, look at the bottom of their shoe with the knee bent in front of them
      Sissies look at the bottom of their shoe over their shoulder with the knee bent in back

      I failed miserably! Of course the inquisitors knew that I would so the entire episode was staged so they could howl with laughter

  • Phil

    This was the world I grew up in and lived in until age 23 or 24 – white, working class community, and very strict standards of behavior. It was confusing at best and and terrifying at its worst. It was a poor fit for me, until I realized what the issue (not problem) was. I came out to myself at age 23, the rest of the world (possibly the universe!) at age 24, and was happily partnered and settled down with another man by age 25.

    But that old standard (I mean REALLY old) never totally went away. My father and brother used to chide me on some of the strangest things like how I walked, how I held my cigarette (I’ve since quit), the color of my shirt, the fit of my pants, wearing my glasses all the time (I was legally blind without them) etc. I wasn’t concerned about their opinions and I think they thought me a snob or something. I really didn’t care. So I “butched it up” for family gatherings, but my partner was always there alongside me. That must have really confused them!

    That world ended when Dad died and I discontinued contact with siblings (and step siblings). Some things are just too painful to hang on to.

    They were more concerned about how it reflected on them than me. And I don’t miss them.

    • David Walker

      “You get just one mother,” I heard Jack’s mom pretty much scream at him several times. Their history was such that the line was not the best argument for him to start talking to her again. (That eventually happened, but not because of anything Marie said.) You learned an important lesson that many of us have had to either learn and accept…relatives can be real sons of bitches and they aren’t as concerned about you as how you they can use you. You have to learn…and they must understand…that your life is your life. At some point the umbilical cord really does need to go.

      My sister is the only one in our family still in touch. Some people just don’t get how cutting the family off, getting away from them, is a good, intelligent thing to do. It really needs to be made clear to our kids that blood relatives may be your family, but if they aren’t good to you or for you, you should surround yourself with those who do love you, care about you, and can be called upon to be there for you.

      This may sound grim, but I’ve wondered, now that Jack is dead, if I’ll start getting invites to family events again. I doubt it…there is enough fundamentalism in that group to sink the Lusitania. But I do wonder if that makes a difference. He’s not here to remind them that two men loved each other for 38 years.

      • Phil

        There was no religion at all in my family. Dad was an atheist. Stepmom was an evil old pig. My real mother has been the only one to maintain close (daily) contact. I suppose the parental bond is perhaps the strongest. When my partner of 25 years died, the best I got from siblings was a phone call – “gee, how sad.” My late partner’s family was far more supportive, but have since died or moved on, although I do maintain contact there. I suppose I’ll have ma for a few more years, but envision that after she’s gone, my family will consist of friends, straight and gay. I’m good with that future.

      • About 30 years ago I spent some time visiting with my brother and his wife in Dallas. Brother was working crazy hours (Dallas PD) so I spent most of the visit with sister-in-law. I guess she wanted to do some out reach bonding kind of thing since she suggested renting “Making Love” as an added bonus I included “Torch Song Trilogy”. She loved the sanitized gays but really didn’t like the queens…after viewing both she said to me, “We’re so glad you’re not like those kinds of gays, your brother couldn’t handle it and we can introduce you to our friends.” I assume she thought she was paying me a compliment, but I had never been so insulted in my life. The next morning I got up early, left a thank you note on the kitchen counter and left before anybody else was awake. I speak to both of them on the rare occasion we are all in the same state, but I keep them at arms length.

        • David Walker

          Jack and I got hit with that once by a straight poetry colleague of Jack’s. I know exactly what you mean about being insulted. He was a fun guy and wrote gorgeous and/or challenging poetry. He could have been the perfect straight friend…good poet for Jack, ragtime pianist and aficionado for me. He probably could have helped Jack. We were both so shocked and offended by his “compliment” that we never bothered to try.

      • stuckinthewoods

        Would you accept their invitation if it came?

        • David Walker

          No. I would enjoy seeing my sister again, but the rest have shown their xn love and have shown what they’re made of (hate, fear, and shit, mostly). For what it’s worth, again aside from my sister, I did not receive one card or email from any of them after Jack died, aside from my sister-in-law and if she’s religious, it would not be their religion. She’s too nice and too smart to get involved in that pig shit. I regret that my sister and I probably won’t get to see each other before one of us dies. If she dies first, however, I’m going nowhere near the church. As much as I dearly love her, fuck the rest of them.

  • Proud MOFO Beaner (bkb)

    Eh. Looks like 1995.

  • CatApostrophe

    I have a trans friend who joined a frat at our college long before she came out because she was trying to convince herself that she could live comfortably as a guy and be traditionally masculine. We didn’t have a super pervasive Greek life on campus but there was some of the stereotypical frat guy stuff going around (I remember going to some truly nasty parties freshman year, ew). She told me she did have some fun in the frat and doesn’t regret joining it, but she was ultimately pretty unhappy because she’d known she was really a girl/woman since she was a little kid. She figured things out eventually and is now happy and healthy and fantastic, but it bums me out when I think about how she felt compelled to perform and display a kind of gender ideal that’s so far from who she is. I know the video isn’t really addressing trans issues but it reminded me of my friend’s experience.

  • John Calendo

    Great. No more exclamations points for me!!!

  • wds

    At 70, I can look back and see just how much the “Masculine” pattern can be driven by fear of folks “knowing” and the over-riding fear of non-acceptance (or worse). There was one brief moment in this excellent film where one of his buddies (while dancing) almost goes off the “man path”, but hops right back on after the “look” … I’ve known gays who drove themselves to be a “man” when actually, they already were. I’ve lost a few from driving themselves in the pursuit of being a “man” to the outside world. In the film, there were a couple of statements I actually tried to follow at one time…thank God I learned what falsehoods they were. And the “‘roid rage at the end? I’ve lost some folks I knew to that as well…

    • another_steve

      “…thank God I learned what falsehoods they were.”

      I’m glad you’ve reached a place that’s comfortable for you.

      That said, some men are naturally hyper-masculine and some women are naturally hyper-feminine.

      And there’s nothing wrong with that.

      • Helen Damnation ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

        This is about being who you really are, but more rather about being safe in the person you are, in your own skin. The folks on both the East and West coasts have it much easier (I lived in San Francisco years ago.). Those of us in the middle, not so much.

  • Max_1

    Any man who has grown up and made to feel as if anything less than being ‘manly’ is a grave disappointment knows the cues…

  • Michael Abbett

    Fascinating. I knew homocons existed but never saw the manufacturing process until just now.

    • William

      Most of them really look more like David Barton or Rick Green.

  • Gerry Fisher

    This was hard to watch.

  • NO MORE GOP!

    At 54 I’m generally pretty comfortable in my skin, no thanks to the fuckwit redneck troglodyte mouth-breather macho shitheads I had to endiure in my rural Montana upbringing. It was intolerable, and I escaped at the earliest possible opportunity. I’m thankful I’m past the need to prove much of anything, other than to prove myself as a reasonably decent human being, every day, as we all try to do.

  • It’s really great to read everyone’s different experiences of masculinity here. This is where I feel this preview seems to fall short. It seems to play to cultural stereotypes instead of actual experiences. When I came out in my late teens – early 20’s – I had to redefine my masculinity for myself – and decide and what worked for my and what was bullshit. As a kid, I also wrestled and played football, but also loved fashion, classical music, theater. As someone who has always appeared very masculine – big, muscular, tall, etc – I feel like I have gotten more of a pass in some areas then other guys. I do feel that it’s true that feminism has given women more of an opportunity to throw off stereotypical gender roles; yet, there’s been no similar movement among men.

    • Natty Enquirer

      “Cultural stereotypes” is what this short film (not preview) is all about. It’s about men in general, gay or straight, who are often violently pressed into a mold of masculinity instead of discovering for themselves who they are. A whole lot of men go through their entire lives never freely expressing their individuality.

  • motordog

    Whenever I think of the topic of gender roles/expectations, I’m reminded of this great song by Dar Williams…the ‘relevant’ part concerning male gender expectations is in the third verse, btw.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcOlkA3ghf4

  • BockMcMillan

    Shit, that was bloody powerful!

  • PiperPine

    Little over the top but its MTV that’s their schtick. Did he really need to also be using anabolic steroids? Not exactly off about expectations of masculinity and the weird quirks of code behavior. Its amazing sometimes to how many social constructs we put around the genitalia we are born with and the need to keep that dichotomy.

  • douglas

    So I’m not the only one to notice how toxic the “bro culture” has become. It’s hyper masculine and hyper aggressive. Stop over compensating boys and just be yourself. I’m a man who sucks cock and I’m ok with that because I’m not trying to impress any loser friends.

  • Princess Lardass

    “Order beef, not chicken.”

    Um, didn’t Dwayne Johnson and Hugh Jackman consume lean chicken during their diet/fitness routines to get ripped for most of their movies?

  • Vista-Cruiser

    Most of those rules were imposed on me back in grade school. But until they were itemized in this video, I didn’t realize that there were so many.

  • Secure

    Douchebag culture! Lots of these kinda dudes in Dallas.

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  • Kim K’s Kute Koochy✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

    this is so offensive NOT ALL GAYS ARE FAGGOTS.

    • William

      Just you.

  • bJason

    “Women play woodwind instruments.”
    Men don’t know what you just said.

  • Irish856

    Stupid video…
    We all try to fit into whatever tribe we want to join… women do it too.
    Go to a Gay dance club on a saturday night… you will see the same issues
    We have members of the LGBT Royalty forcing us to use the word queer. They are trying to make it the go to word. No more Gays or lesbians or bi, trans… they want us all to be queer. We then wonder why so many people hide in the shadows. It is thanks to the few people that want us to conform to what they have decided we are.
    I am a man, I like beer (including micro brews). I like sports (Go EAGLES!) I have straight buds, we hang out together. I have Gay Buds that I have not slept with and will not sleep with.
    If you have issues about who you want to be, or who you see yourself as, that is your problem, DEAL WITH IT! Don’t expect the rest of us to conform to your view.

    • Marc

      Agreed but getting rid of labels isn’t a bad thing, either. I know many gay men who have the same interests as clichéd party frat boys. This is news? I thought the real “scandal” was gays are somehow feminizing heteros. If this won, I hate to think what the other films looked like.

      • Irish856

        why are people afraid of “labels”?

        Labels identify who we are,,, Even Joe my God uses the Bear label for himself. There are a lot of young guys that like older guys… aka daddies… Some guys like fat/chubby guys and are chasers.
        For a 60 yo fat guy to post an add saying he is a young athletic jock will only have him disappointed when he is told to fuc off for not being honest.

        So I think labels are good and needed.

    • McSwagg

      Good point. I’ve never really felt comfortable in so-called gay spaces because I don’t fit in. I’ve even been verbally attacked numerous times for not being gay acting enough or for being a prude because I’m not promiscuous enough. I’m not super masculine, rather more of an intellectual geek type, but I generally don’t set off most peoples’ gaydar. I’m accused of having internalized homophobia and of being straight acting, though I don’t use the term myself, because I don’t exhibit the stereotypical gay body language. I’m quite content with myself and simply avoid those settings these days. Otherwise I refuse to conform to someone else ideas on how I should act.

  • GreenBloodedVulcan

    There’s a different sort of masculinity too I think.
    It’s not all tribal competition/goats ramming heads.
    Masculinity isn’t toxic itself.

  • JellyDonut

    sheep!