Bernie Sanders: We’re Not Ready For A Third Party

The Washington Post reports:

Bernie Sanders rebuffed calls from the Green Party — and a loud minority of his delegates and supporters here — to abandon the Democratic Party and build a third force outside of it.

“I don’t know the leadership of the Green Party, but I respect what they’re trying to do,” Sanders said, at a breakfast sponsored by Bloomberg Politics. “They’re focusing on very, very important issues. But I think right now — what is it, three, four months before an election — you’re gonna end up having a choice. Either Hillary Clinton is going to become president, or Donald Trump.”

The Green Party, which has never again reached the heights of its 2000 performance under Ralph Nader, has held a series of Philadelphia events since the weekend aimed at convincing Sanders voters to make a “DemExit.”

Jill Stein, the party’s likely nominee, has spoken even as rainstorms shut down meetings, repeatedly calling on Sanders to quit the Democrats and talk to her; Cornel West, a Sanders supporter who was one of his five appointees to the party’s platform drafting committee, has appeared at Stein events and canceled at least one Democratic event around the convention.

  • Michael Smith

    Jill Stein isn’t even on the ballot in Pennsylvania. That should tell you about the Green Party’s chances.

    • That Guy

      Good. Pennsylvania is a swing state, so Stein not being on the ballot does the Dems a favor.

    • Keiffer

      PA: 20 and neither of these blue/swing states which are 98 in total. Gives me hope for PA, VA, IA, and NH to remain blue in the general without a 3rd party distraction.
      NC: 15
      NJ: 14
      VA: 13
      MN: 10
      CT: 7
      IA: 6
      NV: 6
      NH: 4
      RI: 4
      DE: 3
      VT: 3

  • bkmn

    Jill Stein showed she wasn’t serious when she invited Bernie to take her place at the top of the ticket last month, knowing that Bernie had no chance of winning since he couldn’t run as a non-Democrat in several states since he had competed in primaries as a Democrat.

    • Dramphooey

      It was a humbug that fooled some of the dumber Sanders die hards but she knew he’d never take her up on her phony offer.

      • karmanot

        At least you got phooey right

        • Dramphooey

          Have you met my cousin Hong Kong who fights crime?

    • Circle Thomas

      I thought Stein showed she wasn’t serious when she said she would be open to the Greens and the Libertarians merging together into one ticket, despite the fact that they share nothing in common on the issues. Or maybe she showed she wasn’t serious when she said she’d appoint Edward Snowden to her cabinet. I could go on, but I need to eat lunch at some point.

    • dafs

      I cooled on her once she defended Brexit.

      • Joseph Miceli

        I cooled on her when I found that she’s an apologist for anti-vaxxers.

        • Falconlights

          That would be a deal-breaker for me, too.

        • dafs

          oh yeah, forgot about that bullshit.

    • Lawerence Collins

      Not true. She knew he was the much stronger candidate and that it’s not about her but the message. Just as Bernie knew that the crooked DNC would’ve never let him win.

      • MaryOGrady

        The DNC *wishes* they had that kind of power. Sanders lost because he did not turn out enough voter to win in the individual states, each of which has its own rules for primaries and caucuses.

      • Gene

        how on earth is a TOTALLY unelectable socialist a “stronger” candidate? the republicans withheld all attacks and fire at him HOPING he would be the candidate.

        your despreation and misery at Sanders lose is making you lose your business sense Lawerence

      • MattM

        Yikes. Give it up. Even Bernie backs Hillary.

    • Lumpy Gaga

      Laws are hard. Let’s go shopping!

  • HAAAAAAA

    I will take the Green Party, over the Orange Party, any day.

    • Todd20036

      I would too, if they had an actual chance of winning.

  • SunsetGay

    Green Party? That sounds like something from Colorado.

    • WebSlinger

      or Washington…

  • TK

    BTW…DemExit is awkward and clumsy to say. I know they think it’s clever because of Brexit…but it’s just stupid.

    • Todd20036

      Sounds like “demented”

      • Acronym Jim

        Or “damned exit.”

        • DreadPirateZed

          “There’s the DemExit – don’t let the doorknob hit you where the good Lord split you.”

          • karmanot

            And take all their gold!

          • Falconlights

            That’s what you do!

    • JustDucky

      It’s also telling. It lets us know that the Green Party is comfortable linking itself to Brexit. So racism and xenophobia isn’t a deal breaker for them.

  • Still voting for Stein. I think the country’s ready.

    • Dramphooey

      With her pandering to homeopathy and the anti vaccine crowd she can have Rob Schneider and Jenny McCarthy speak at her convention. I was going to go and “boo” at the Green convention but I’m not sure I want to be seen walking into a Denny’s.

    • MattM

      So you’re not really a Berner after all. It was never about him and all about you.

    • crewman

      I think the country’s ready.

      ….ready for Donald Trump? If that is the outcome, we will be dealing with that for generations to come.

    • Ross

      The country is ready for Jill?

      You mean the candidate who received less than half of 1% (0.36%) of the popular vote in 2012?

      • Todd20036

        The candidate who’d let parents choose to allow their children to die of horrible childhood diseases because of some made up risk of autism from vaccines.

        That Jill Stein
        .
        Next.

    • Do Something Nice

      As a Sanders supporter who is now voting for Clinton, I respect your decision, and apologize for the abuse you are about to get.

      • Dramphooey

        I’m surprised he’s getting this much. I thought everyone blocked him.

        Anyhow, I don’t care what he does. Frankly, I believe he was always a third party supporter and has simply returned home.

        • Reality.Bites

          He didn’t return. He was never going to vote for Bernie either

      • Hexadecimal

        Oh please, “abuse”. He enjoys stirring up the pot it seems. Don’t try to martyr yourselves too much. Thread after thread he has nothing new to add except to tell everyone he is not ever voting for Clinton.

        • Do Something Nice

          Sorry, but many Clinton supporters have been assholes to those who don’t agree with those of us who support/supported Sanders.

          • Dramphooey

            Some. But many of us here were empathetic and after the last primary stood here with arms open. If you go back far enough you will find me defending Sanders right to run for every delegate he could get until the last primary closed; I thought the contested primary exciting and invigorating.

            I am shocked and disappointed by how this revolution concluded. Booing Marcia Fudge speaking on the embrace of LBGT rights!

          • Do Something Nice

            Those who booed are not representative of ‘this revolution’ and are going against Sanders’ wishes. And the same, small percentage of maladjusted nutcases can be found supporting Clinton and most other candidates too. The exception is Trump. The majority of his supporters seem to be nutcases.

          • Joe knows who I am.

            Correction: ALL of his supporters seem to be nutcases.

          • JustSayin’

            But sanders created them and encouraged them all along. They are his creature. His other fans cannot excuse him for their actions just because he, at the last minute, conceded he never could win.

          • Hexadecimal

            There has been a lot of animosity on both sides. Don’t just single out Clinton supporters for being assholes. Many Sanders most die-hard supporters continue to latch on to conspiracy theories, emails and anti-Hillary propaganda. What Heimaey is doing is being divisive for the sake of promoting controversy. He doesnt even have a horse in this race if he is going to vote for Stein. At the time where Hillary Clinton will be the dem presidential nominee we don’t need divisive people who don’t care about dem unity.

          • Dramphooey

            Heimaey is trolling. I posted some mockery but those who are arguing with the goal of convincing him are wasting their time. He’s probably off in another forum.

          • Todd20036

            Think Dutch Boy calling Ms. Clinton “Hitlery”

          • JustSayin’

            And the bernie bros and supporters were major shitstains to hillary supporters and as you saw yesterday STILL FUCKING ARE… Your whine is okd and sta!e. Bernie lost and they need to get with the program or get out of the democratic party and convention.

            Learn to build instead of destroy.!!!!!

          • Bill_Perdue

            HRH HRC will continue to build the police state, engage in wars of aggression, bust unions and cut the wages of workers, deport immigrants trying to enter the US, be a tool of the banks and the MIC and be indistinguishable from Trump.

      • Derrick Johns

        LOL @ “I respect your decision, and apologize for the abuse you are about to get.”

        That’s right, get him ready for the onslaught. I got my pitchfork ready!
        You, Do Something NIce, have a kind heart, and you are a gentleman. I have half a kind heart, but I aint no gentleman.

        Heimaey is tough. He’s taken the reaction to his views for weeks now. He can’t be broken. I just wish he’d secretly vote for Hillary without telling us. You don’t have to tell us.

      • I’m used to it. What they don’t realize is that the more I’m called ridiculous, the more I’m called an idiot, etc, the stronger my convictions grow.

        • BeaverTales

          I’m voting Hillary, but SCOTUS is the only reason. Let’s focus on getting Bernie allies elected to the Senate and House.

          The important thing is the party platform. If the leader of the party doesn’t follow the party platform, then she’s not a Democrat anymore. It’s not her platform to decide, the platform is decided by the voters. Make her go on record as opposing the wishes of the Democratic party that she needs to win with, and she loses by her own hand. We can’t help that.

          She doesn’t tell us what to think, as our elected public servant, we get to tell her what to fight for, if she wants our votes. When she ignores the party platform, either before or after her election, we form our own party, and we’ll have congresspeople supporting us…..not all of us are sheep. In 2020, we can run our own ticket against the Democrats and the GOP if we have to..

    • Hexadecimal

      Good for you. Have your protest vote. All election season you have been for Bernie and anti-hillary. Yet even though Bernie’s platform aligns more closely to Clinton’s it’s still not good enough for you. Entitled to vote for whoever you want. But gloating about how you are #neverHillary every chance you get is getting old.

      • Reality.Bites

        He was never, ever pro-Bernie. Only anti-Hillary.

      • I’ve never liked Hillary – I’m not going to vote for her. I’m also not deciding this election.

        • Quipster

          And furthermore, your uninformed opinion does not matter.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Do you think that WatergateII, aka Hillerygate, matters?

    • That_Looks_Delicious

      You know they didn’t even get it together to be on the ballot in about half of the states, don’t you?

      • Dramphooey

        One of my favorite things at election time is the old kook who is mad at the township supervisors and mounts a write in campaign. They couldn’t be bothered to pass around a petition that requires all of twenty signatures so they sit out in front of the polls in a lawn chair and ask people to write in their names.

        They have a better chance than Stein to get into office. They have a better chance than Stein to get into the Oval Office!

        • That_Looks_Delicious

          I’ve seen campaigns for high school student body president that are better run.

      • You know that “not getting it together” is not true. Look at the rules and you’ll see why. It’s not due to disorganization.

      • SoCalGal20

        According to the Green Party website they are “in process” trying to get on the ballot in most of the remaining states but I don’t even know what that means.

        • Bruno

          Bet you any swing states run by Rethuglicans (basically all of them) will put the Green Party process through the fast track.

    • Do Something Nice

      And here is one reason why I’m supporting Clinton, that I posted on FB last night:

      WWII had the US uprooting over 120,000 Japanese-Americans and others from their homes and sending them away to internment camps. I visited one of these camps that is now part of the National Parks system. They had excellent exhibits and many of them told horrific stories of sorrow, despair, courage and survival.

      The exhibit that affected me the most was about the teachers and schoolmates of of the children that were being sent to the camps, about 50% of the total internment population. Their trauma was increased because they were prohibited from bringing their pets to the camps. So most schools set up emergency pet adoption programs with students and teachers leading the effort. This was done not only to care for the pets, but as an act of compassion to assure those departing heartbroken children that their beloved pets would be cared for.

      If Trump becomes our president and is able to eject even 500,000 of the 11 million or so he wants to deport, the scale of human suffering and sorrow would be enormous and I refuse to let that happen in my country.

      Never again.

      • bill weber

        “Since coming to office in 2009, Obama’s government has deported more than 2.5 million people—up 23% from the George W. Bush years.” YOU PEOPLE REALLY DON’T KNOW THIS STUFF, DO YOU? http://fusion.net/story/252637/obama-has-deported-more-immigrants-than-any-other-president-now-hes-running-up-the-score/

        • Gene

          yet, the hispanic community, who knows their problems, and Obama well, are massively voting for the Candidate he supports. A great many of those deported had broken the law here…Obama has tried to impliment the Dream act, and republicans fought him on it! He has made it known that non law breaking families are not targets of immigration enforcement…Hillary is the NOMINEE of the party that does NOT want to build a damn wall

          YOU DONT THINK ABOUT THIS DO YOU? YOU THINK YOU KNOW BETTER THAN THE MILLIONS OF UNDOCUMENTED AND THEIR LEGAL RELATIVES WHO HAVE MADE THEIR SUPPORT FOR CLINTON CLEAR! DONT YOU?

          YOU ARE AN IDEALIST READY TO FUCK MILLIONS BECAUSE YOUR PRECIOUS BUTTHURT IS SO BAD, ARENT YOU?
          SANDERS…S A N D E R S! Said you should vote for Clinton’
          Grow the fuck up and be an ADULT

          and when you grow up…loss the ALL CAPS
          (sheeseh)

          • bill weber

            Sanders is a politician, not a god to me.

            I see, now it matters who has “broken the law.” You sound like Trump.

            Re “adult”: shit in your duncecap and punch it.

          • MattM

            “Shit in your duncecap and punch it.”

            Bill Perdue, is that you?

            I bet you don’t actually vote. You just troll with foul language because it amuses you. What’s it like having nothing going for you?

          • Bill_Perdue

            Troll is swinish. And desperately looking under bed for commies. So was Roy Cohn who mattm emulates.

          • MattM

            And just like Beetlejuice, when a troll hears it’s name…

            ^^^ troll

          • Bill_Perdue

            Never wrestle with pigs like mattm You just get dirty
            and the pig likes it.

          • MattM
          • Bill_Perdue

            Obama is a racist and that’s why you like him.

        • Do Something Nice

          I am fully aware if this and it is despicable. But it should be that difficult to see the difference between 2.5 million people deported in 8 years and saying that you are going to deport 11 million people after you get elected.

          • bill weber

            Please explain to me why Dems believe Trump would achieve everything that flies out of his mouth (which often changes from week to week) and yet their only question for Sanders was “How will he do ANY of this?”

            (And how much will Clinton be “getting done” when the GOP holds 100 votes to impeach her?)

          • Do Something Nice

            You confuse me with a Clinton fan. Even though I’m very much to the left, I don’t care that much for Sanders or Clinton.

            I supported Sanders, and, since he lost, I’m voting for Clinton. In my mind, Sanders is preferable to Clinton and Clinton is preferable to Trump.

            Even more, I refuse to allow Trump to win and foment popular support that will brow-beat/bully congress into going along with some of his despicable agenda.

    • Traxley Launderette

      Bless your foolish heart.

    • NO MORE GOP!

      Political calculus fail. She can’t possibly win: the numbers are not there. It’s going to be Clinton or Trump, and all you do by voting for her is leave the election up to the remaining pool of voters who are inclined to one or the other of those two. So, do you really want Trump appointing two or possibly three SCOTUS justices, hmmm? Because if you do, that’s what your vote for Stein will help accomplish.

    • oikos
      • If the Dems wanted me to vote for them they would have chose someone other than Clinton. Her VP pick, her shifting center again – all telling us liberals she doesn’t need us. She’s gambling on the center and the center right people fleeing Trump.

        • oikos

          i don’t care who you vote for but if we get a president rump I will remember those who helped make it possible.

    • joe ho

      yes, let’s bring back polio.

    • Quipster

      If you mean the country is ready for stupidity in action, go ahead.

  • WebSlinger

    But assuming you agree with the lunacy of a President Trump, you are left with four options:

    -Vote for Hillary Clinton
    -Vote for Gary Johnson – Libertarian party
    -Vote for Jill Stein – Green party
    -Not vote

    I cannot state it emphatically enough: Whatever you think of Hillary Clinton, under no reasonable assessment is she “just as bad” as Donald Trump.

    READ MORE: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/think-really-really-hard-before-voting-for-a-3rd-party_us_57962546e4b0b3e2427cb644

    https://lintvksnt.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/ap-poll-trump-vs-clin_dull.jpg?w=650

  • ben

    The Greens’ problem is the same dilemma facing the Libertarians and the Constitution Party, and the big reason why none of those will ever be a serious threat to the duopoly: every 4 years they put all their chips on the White House… and are basically invisible the whole rest of the time. They put no time or money investment into downballot races or actually building a serious, sustained movement. It’s almost like they’re content to be nothing more than a protest vote

    • Traxley Launderette

      But there’s there’s the money coming in every four years. Not bad for a part-time gig.

    • That_Looks_Delicious

      Not almost.

    • Taken from Dan Savage ver batim almost – but it’s not true. There are sitting members of the Green and Libertarian parties all over the country – it’s just that no one pays attention to them on a national level until the general elections.

      • marshlc

        So his number in a recent column were incorrect? Something like 120 sitting members, out of several hundred thousand elective positions?

        I mean, that’s great, that’s how a third party becomes viable – but if those numbers are even roughly accurate, they’re not there yet.

        • Yeah his numbers are incorrect.

          • marshlc

            What are more correct numbers?

      • Gerry Fisher

        There are a few outliers. That’s not a viable party.

      • Joseph Miceli

        Right. So where are they? I’m a Google that right now!

      • Joseph Miceli

        Couldn’t find the info, but call me back when Greens are at 10 percent and I’ll take them seriously.

    • Gerry Fisher

      this

    • Carl

      Many republicans run unopposed in county and district positions where I live. You would think it would be an opening for them, but no…. they just gotta have their revolution or bust.

      • Lumpy Gaga

        Republicans fight dirty. Trustafarians can’t handle anything they can’t dominate by bullying.

        • Margueritesrivera3

          <<o. ★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★::::::!be391p:….,….

    • Lumpy Gaga

      “There’s good money in spoiling an election if it’s run right.”

      http://67.media.tumblr.com/a7ec324e2620ca049c9c6382d4a9c62f/tumblr_n5flflO5v51qgby96o1_500.jpg

    • bill weber

      The Ds and Rs have an unbreakable stranglehold on the electoral system. It will be impossible for the foreseeable, limited future of this country (Waterworld) for other parties to be more than a protest outlet.

  • That_Looks_Delicious

    Stein said something else this past week that proved she’s not a serious thinker, but it was so silly that I can’t remember what it was now.

    • Capritaur

      Like many BoB holdouts, she prefers to trust in foreign powers with ulterior motives and the cowardly Australian rapist.

  • bambinoitaliano

    If the Green Party has any long term vision, they will recruit for 2020, not with four months left in this election cycle. They either poor in execution or they just want to disrupt the general election just to get publicity for any insignificant recognition. Either way it speaks volume that the Green Party is not ready for prime time.

  • Derrick Johns

    I respect Bernie Sanders today more than I did all spring. He is a wise man.
    To the people who are part of Bernie’s Revolution you should go on with your movement. The same way the right-wing folks had their Tea Party Revolution you have yours. The difference is that the Tea Party took over the Republican Party. I don’t think Bernie’s folks can take over the Democratic Party.

    But we have an off year election in 2018–make us feel the Bern.

    • JustSayin’

      No.

    • petewestcentral

      My respect for Sanders increases. He’s a great man. I liked Charles P. Pierce’s comment–“the Sanders protestors won’t change anything but I respect them.” Something that really took me aback during the primaries was the harsh contempt for young idealists. I was a young idealist once, acting for a future that I believed in but did not think that I would live to see. Stonewall is a national monument now. Presidential candidates say “GLBT.”

  • JT

    Jill Stein is a flake, so if she’s the icon of the Greens, they have a long way to go.

  • Randy Ellicott

    “The purpose of voting is not to express your fidelity to a worldview. It’s not to wave a flag or paint your face in team colors; it’s to produce outcomes,” says Jason Brennan, a philosopher at Georgetown University and author of The Ethics of Voting. “If they’re smart, they’ll vote for the candidate likely to best produce the outcome they want. That might very well be compromising, but if voting for a far-left or far-right candidate means that you’re just going to lose the election, then you’ve brought the world further away from justice rather than closer to it.”

    http://qz.com/717255/ethicists-say-voting-with-your-heart-without-a-care-about-the-consequences-is-actually-immoral/

    • MattM

      That presumes these kids have foresight and self awareness.

    • bill weber

      who the fuck is some academic, telling me what my vote means?

      • Gene

        sounds like a pretty wise and educated man, this academic.

        and a man with experience of the real world who knows how said real world actually works

      • Randy Ellicott

        Try reading it fully and maybe you would understand what he is saying.

      • Joseph Miceli

        Someone who knows what your vote means, because he’s an academic?

      • MattM

        Well the academic in question knows more than you. Then again, if you were smart enough to understand the point they made, you wouldn’t be trolling this hard.

        • Bill_Perdue

          The academic in question, like you, knows how to get promoted and get raises by abandoning ethics.

    • karmanot

      Depends on what the meaning of ‘Is’ is professor.

    • NancyP

      What’s Cornel West’s excuse? Here he is, well paid pundit and preacher, now a professor at Union Theological Seminary. Obama wasn’t good enough for him, and now he’s bitching at Hillary about welfare and free trade laws enacted when she was a First Lady, not Sec’y State – and when most Blacks were just as worried about crime as anyone else and were on the Get Tough bandwagon.

      • Randy Ellicott

        I am not sure what you are asking but I assume you’re talking about his endorsement of Stein. First, this article isn’t about excuses or blame, or even really voting for trump or Clinton, it’s about ethics. And to be clear: Stein has no chance of winning as she isn’t on the ballot in enough states. SO by endorsing someone who has no chance of winning he is directing votes away from the only two parties that have a chance of winning. This means those votes in and of themselves are wasted on a candidate that cannot hope to gain enough votes to prevail. That means that those people have abdicated their responsibility in picking our government leaders, which the paper and I argue is unethical. Now the part that gets a bit deeper is his reasons for backing stein, one has to assume he feels that by backing stein he will help create a certain outcome, and in this case it would only help the GOP and hurt the Democrats (backing a Libertarian would have been nearly the opposite effect, though they pull from both party’s more than the green does). One would assume he feels that letting trump win would bring about whatever outcome he perceives as good. Whether he thinks the people will rise up and revolt or if it will bring about the complete destruction of our party system I don’t know and I don’t care. I plan to live in this country for quite some time and if Trump is elected we lose the Supreme Court for at least a generation, and that is unacceptable. Finally you say he is a “well paid pundit and preacher, now a professor at Union Theological Seminary” and while he may be a “good man,” I don’t know that one can be called ethical if one is a well-paid pundit/preacher as that title alone is filled with issues.

      • Derrick Johns

        @ “What’s Cornel West’s excuse?”
        Well, NancyP, like many academics Dr West doesn’t have an excuse. He just says what comes across his mind. Sometimes his thoughts make sense and sometimes they don’t.

        What made him pop into your head? The fact that he’s a Bernie supporter? Well, so are Spike Lee, Susan Sarandon and Danny Glover. They should throw a party for Bernie in Brooklyn.

    • Bill_Perdue

      Voting is irrelevant. The rich run both parties and all their candidates. That’s science, not paid political propaganda.

      “A new scientific study from Princeton researcher Martin Gilens and Northwestern researcher Benjamin I. Page has finally put some science behind the recently popular argument that the United States isn’t a democracy any more. And they’ve found that in fact, America is basically an oligarchy.
      Comparing the preferences of the average American at the 50th percentile of income to what those Americans at the 90th percentile preferred, as well as the opinions of major lobbying or business groups, the researchers found out that the government followed the directives set forth by the latter two much more often. It’s beyond alarming.
      As Gilens and Page write, ‘the preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.’ In other words, their statistics say your opinion literally does not matter.”
      http://mic.com/articles/87719/princeton-concludes-what-kind-of-government-america-really-has-and-it-s-not-a-democracy

      ”The government we have is not a democracy. It’s nowhere close. Instead, a corruption in the very idea of a representative democracy has rendered our nation almost ungovernable. We have entered the age of the “vetocracy,” as political theorist Francis Fukuyama puts it, where very small numbers in America can block almost any sensible change. – Gridlock happens not because Americans want it. Gridlock happens because it pays — for that tiny minority.http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/lawrence-lessig-america-not-democracy-article-1.2374820

  • Traxley Launderette

    Aw, shit.

    Prepare for Green splodey heads.

    • Bill_Perdue

      Prepare for Watergate II.

  • thom

    My impressions of the first night; Cory Booker is a great orator, exciting to listen to. but if he decides to run in 2024 he will most likely face the same push back from Bernie supporters, too many donations from Wall Street, tied to Big Banks etc.
    Michelle Obama knocked it out of the park, I’d vote for her in 2024.
    Elizabeth Warren was okay I found she paled in comparison to the rest of the speakers. but im not her base either.
    I thought Bernie was brilliant. started out as a stump speech. plenty of red meat to his supporters and then switched, explaining how they can use a Clinton presidency to advance their cause. how they can push her. how they can make change with her. rhetorically,I thought it was fantastic. let’s see if his supporters follow him

    • james_from_cambridge

      Michelle Obama is too smart to run for office.

      • thom

        lol, i think you’re probably right.
        she would be formidable though

        • bill weber

          Enabler of a centrist war criminal.

          • MattM

            Promoter of crybaby petulance.

      • SoCalGal20

        SCOTUS!

      • bill weber

        She is an excellent speaker, and her words about HRC’s ‘character’ were hilariously fanciful.

        • MattM

          As if a known troll is someone we take character observations from. Don’t you have to go be irrelevant somewhere in the real world?

          • Bill_Perdue

            Troll. ^^^^

  • TK

    Bernie, some of your creations disagree…

    • Dramphooey

      Is this the Fart-In?

    • Lumpy Gaga

      “I can’t see Ringo!”

  • Acronym Jim

    A “Demexit?” Really? Did anybody think that through?

  • Acronym Jim
  • joe ho

    Why not? The world needs Jill Stein’s Let’s-Bring-Polio-Back Party.

    • bill weber

      she is not anti-vaccine, but keep lying.

      • MaryOGrady

        She wants to make childhood vaccinations legally optional. That is the exact position of so-called moderate anti-vaxxers.
        As a small child, before the measles vaccine was available, I almost died from the pneumonia which developed as a complication from my case of measles. I still remember the air hunger, a half-century later. I have known people with post-polio syndrome, which is no joke at all.
        Vaccines work. By equivocating about them, Jill Stein has disqualified herself as a critical thinker and as a presidential candidate.

      • Personally, no, she isn’t. But the Green Party’s platform (which she represents) calls for equal funding for alternative “medicine”, which often entails anti-vaxing and homeopathic “remedies”.

    • karmanot

      Oh puuuuleze. Is that all you got?

      • joe ho

        lol. she’s also a flake like her anti-vaxer, pro-homeopathy supporters.

        “The only other thing she mentioned when asked about the issues most important to her: “I will obliterate the ‘Two Party’ System by becoming the first Green Party president of these United States as a result of our victory in the 2012 general election — with 99 percent of the votes,” she stated.”

  • oikos
  • Baby Dave

    I’m with Cornel West

    • Gene

      an unrealistic turncoat, who gets on one party platform committee then hangs out with the Green candidate.
      I honestly expected better of you

      • Todd20036

        He called Hillary, “Hitlery” one too many times for my tastes.

        • MaryOGrady

          Oh, no. I am so sorry to hear that. I have read some of his books and agreed with some of his ideas, but that childish idiocy destroys all my respect for him.

      • Baby Dave

        Who the fuck are you?

        • Gene

          someone who has posted here way longer than you
          🙂

          (and I did, sincerely, expect better of you)

          • Dramphooey

            Careful now. You’re making him angry. And he controls fifty per cent of the eligible voters in this country.

          • Baby Dave

            Whatever.

          • Bill_Perdue

            You’re an acknowledged reactionary who lies all the time.

    • Dramphooey

      You’ll get Allen West for your trouble.

    • MattM

      Figures that someone who calls himself a baby would lack the foresight and ability to compromise for the greater good that real adults possess.

  • thom

    On CNN right now they’re saying that Bernie Sanders is in talks to nominate Clinton after today’s roll call vote. i think yesterday’s opposition to Clinton at the DNC genuinely surprised Bernie. I think we’ve come to a turning point and he is obviously, enthusiastically behind the Clinton candidacy

    • JustSayin’

      I think the correct sttement is that he is enthusiastically against trump

    • Gene

      oh god, I hope so!

  • David Kerlick

    Ralph Nader took money from the Florida GOP in 2000. He said it was because “they supported Green values.” I have a bridge I’d like to sell Mr. Nader. His 80,000 votes helped get W into the White House, and hardly anything bad happened? Same would happen if people vote 3rd in swing states. If they could (impossibly) win electoral votes to deny a majority, the President is then chosen by the House of Representatives voting by states. Wonder how that would go?

  • Jacob

    Fuck you Bernie. It was never about you personally.

  • Natgade

    I’m sorry, Bernie, but I cannot support Clinton.

    • Librarykid

      So you would rather have Trump for president? Are you a Democrat or a Republican? Are you registered to vote? Do you want another right-wing Justice appointed to the Supreme Court? Do you want the progress made in rights for so many overturned?

      • Natgade

        I do not want Trump for president. I’m a registered Democrat. I would not want a right wing justice overturning progress.

        • JDS

          So, you are not a Trump supporter and don’t want him in office, yet you won’t vote for Hillary? What am I missing here? It’s either going to be Hillary or Trump.

    • joe ho

      lol. A left-wing teabagger. Disgusting.

      • Lumpy Gaga

        They should get some kind of identifying funny hat.

    • Quipster

      Are you a sentient being?

    • Bruno

      Don’t apologize to Bernie, apologize to the country you’re about to ruin.

      • Natgade

        I want to see our country better. Voting for Clinton or Trump would not make it better.

        • Bruno

          Sure. Not doing everything you can to keep tRump out of office is wanting to see this country get better. I have a bridge to sell you, too. Sitting by idly (or pseudo-idly by voting for Stein or someone else with no chance of winning) is like saying “I’m neutral as to whether or not I want healthcare revoked for millions and millions of people. I’m neutral as to whether or not I want Citizens United overturned. I’m neutral about 2-4 tRump SCOTUS picks who will make Roberts look liberal.” And before you give me any more lies about where Clinton’s coming from, her husband, who you all seem to think is the exact same person as her, nominated Ruth Bader Ginsburg to SCOTUS. Ruth. Bader. Fucking. Ginsburg. Not Scalia, not Roberts, not even Kennedy. So you can save your delusions and use them on someone else who’ll actually believe them.

    • JustSayin’

      Well president trump will thank you. Make sure you let everyone you know in the real world that you are such a purist that you will actively work to make trump the president…see how that works out for your future.

      • Bruno

        Another one who waved a magic wand and won’t, like the rest of the country and world, be affected by tRump’s presidency. That makes a handful now. I wonder how they got so lucky.

      • Natgade

        Choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.

    • MattM

      At least you admit being intellectually superior to everyone else is more important to you than your country and fellow citizens. I applaud you for your honest narcissism.

  • marshlc

    I’m Canadian. We have three viable parties, and also a small but vocal and well-respected Green Party.

    I’ve often voted Green. I would be ecstatic if a Green Party member won in an election where my vote helped put them in. But in an election where my Green vote would possibly mean a Conservative beat out an NDP, or even a Liberal, no way in hell would I throw my vote away.

    In a multi party system, which so many of you here say you want, voters are always aware of the possibility of vote splitting, and vote strategically as a matter of course. There’s no need to demonize or vilify the other party that is on roughly the same side of the right/left divide as your favourite party – it’s just a question of tactics (or do I mean strategy?) You vote for whoever is most likely to beat the bad guys, and in between elections do what you can to strengthen your side.

    The reason Canada has a Liberal rather than a Conservative government right now is because voters in every riding looked at the odds, made a realistic decision, and did what they could to get Harper defeated. That’s how multi party democracy works, when it’s working well.

    And you could, just as a thought experiment, think about how useful a Jill Stein presidency would be, with no party members in the House or Senate. How much would get done?

    • motordog

      There you go, trying to be reasonable again…

    • JustSayin’

      In a word….NOTHING. Congress holds the power to write law, not the president. The repub!icans have proven they will shut down our government over ideologic issues they know they cannot win.with stein in the white house dems would join the repubs and override her

      • Bill_Perdue

        Congress does what the rich tell them to.

    • Bruno

      Nothing would get done because she’s completely inexperienced in politics. I imagine many bloviating, condescending addresses to the public and complaining about Congress. She’d also likely turn off many Congressional Democrats in addition to the Party of No. So pretty much a disaster from the get-go. Now I can stop imagining that.

      • NancyP

        That was the problem I had with Sanders. He just didn’t have a track record of getting stuff done.

    • Gene

      1) you are showing common sense…not an out of control passion, as most of these die hards (not reg sanders supports, the die hards) do

      2) a surprising number of Americans seem not to understand that we have a congress, not a parliament, and coalitions are NOT possible in our system…a third party vote here, is a wasted vote (on the Presidential level)

      I hope more people…like Mr Weber who is posting on this thread, read your post.

      • JDS

        Bingo!

  • bob

    If I see this whiny delegate ashley one more time on tv, I’ll scream ! Another attention whore with no brain !

    • MattM

      Was calling her a whore necessary?

      • bob

        Attention whore ? Fame whore ? Kinda like a kim davis or a kardashian . What else , but doing it for attention ? Would she have even been interviewed if not for these ridiculous statements ? Her candidate says to support Hillary .

        • MattM

          Eh if we’re going to rightfully criticize Bernie supporters for calling HRC a whore, we can’t then use that word under similar circumstances.

  • unsavedheathen

    The third party I would be glad to see get a convention bump is the Libertarian Party. For two reasons.

    One. Two competent, straight(excuse the expression) talking former Republican governors on a third party ticket would siphon off the small percentage of sane centrists that still call themselves Republicans. Libertarians take votes from Republicans.

    Two. I would welcome three-way debates including Gary Johnson. There would be at least one person on the stage that I could be sure was speaking aloud his true beliefs.

    Johnson is at 8% and 11% in recent polls. He needs to reach 15% to take part.

    • Gene

      you are not wrong…thought, he might take some (not many) blue collar/working class democrats also (most of whom recoil from most Green positions). Here in GA, polls have Clinton and Trump at 44 and 45 (!), MAINLY due to republican support for Johnson.

      • unsavedheathen

        Exactly.

    • Lumpy Gaga

      RWNJs with drugs.

      • unsavedheathen

        What’s not to like?

        • Lumpy Gaga

          I report. You decide.

    • Capritaur

      I was an officer in the New Mexican Youth and Government when I was in high school. We invited Gary Johnson to talk about government during our annual event. He talked about his heroic ascent of Mount Everest and his frostbitten toes.

    • I do not like Libertarian thought because I believe those most in need in society — the poorest, the most ill, the elderly, the handicapped, those traditionally discriminated against, may need more help in terms of social services and with basic physical needs like food and housing. This costs money. . If this means taxation on those able to contribute, and some higher prices, I am all for it. I also do not think some drugs (heroin, crystal meth for example) should be legalized — there must be standards and enforcements for the benefit of all. I also believe in public schooling and public university systems that require taxation to support. I am very much opposed to the libertarian philosophy and the writings and teaching of Any Rand — who seems to be the spiritual leader of the Libertarians today.

  • SoCalGal20

    Bernie showed up to give a surprise speech at the CA delegation breakfast. The Sanders delegates booed him to which he responded, “It’s easy to boo. It’s harder to look your child in the face during a Trump presidency”.

    The CA Bernie delegation was so disruptive, in part, because it’s so large. Anyway, one of the CA Bernie delegates said he expected them to be quieter today, not sure I believe it, though. Oh and apparently Hillary and Bernie delegates from the TX got into a shouting match this morning at their breakfast.

    • Bruno

      He’s trying to put toothpaste back in the tube. You can’t preach party unity when you’ve helped turn a chunk of it so vociferously against the other part. Bernie may be a great speaker, inspiring, ideologically commendable…but he is unfortunately more divisive than unifying. He needs to perform a miracle, but I don’t see it.

      • marshlc

        I remember thinking, months ago – how is he going to deal with their disappointment when political reality sets in? If he’d won the nomination, and if he had then won the presidency, it would be the same – eventually he’d have to do something expedient, and young and/or unsophisticated voters would be angry.

        • Bruno

          In 2008, there were many people who actually felt the same way about Obama during the election. When he pivoted to the center in the general, the disappointment really set in for them. Obviously we don’t get to see that happen with Bernie…who knows if he’d have pivoted center or not. But I do believe that if he were president, he’d actually have made an effort to work with others to make things happen. No, definitely not his pie-in-the-sky stuff, but at least he would have a dialogue and has some pragmatism. I don’t think he’d be half as good as that as Clinton, though.

          • marshlc

            I’ve been saying all along that I think either of them would be good for the country, in different ways.

            And yeah, that disappointment is just a feature of exciting people who are generally not interested in politics – they don’t really understand how it works, and don’t like to see the sausage being made.

      • karmanot

        Divisive huh? What is it about real democracy you don’t understand?

        • Bruno

          I understand that snide, ad hominem attacks will get me to block you. Instantly.

          • Treant

            Shade you can see from orbit.

            I like it.

        • MattM

          Do you ever get tired of looking like a foolish jerk?

      • SoCalGal20

        90% of his followers are going to vote for Hillary. The remaining 10% are intractable zealots. And some portion of them were never to going to vote Dem begin with. I do wish that instead of going negative in the spring like he did, he would have kept to the issues but too late now. He’s definitely onboard now and I liked his speech last night and what he said to the CA delegation. He and the rest of us should focus on those 90% who will vote for her and get them engaged and excited for November. The zealots can come around on their own. Or not.

        • Bruno

          It is easy to get caught up in that smaller minority who’s acting out loudly right now. Though I thought I saw a much more dire poll from CNN regarding Sanders voters but now can’t find any evidence of it. Perhaps it was a fake. I’d be curious to see what the numbers look like post-convention. One thing I will say is I do think both Clinton and Sanders went negative. I’m not sure who started it, but both did, to some degree. That’s just how campaigns are in the 21st Century, unfortunately.

          • Ninja0980

            As you said, this is sadly how things are today.
            As you said, this is sadly how things are today.

    • bill weber

      Democracy is supposed to be messy. Read about the pre-TV conventions sometime; make this one look like a debutante ball.

    • ColdCountry

      Great quote. I’m glad Bernie is taking the road to unity, here. I hope his followers… follow.

    • sfprman

      Funny how his rabid supporters question everything about Bernie now. His integrity. His judgement. His influence.

  • bill weber

    As Gore Vidal often said, “I’m waiting for a second party.”

  • matt227

    We would need a new form of government before a third party would be viable or mathematically sensible to vote for.

    • danolgb

      Even our own constitution makes a third party a terrible idea. If there isn’t a candidate that gets a majority of the electoral votes then the House decides who won. I can’t imagine anyone on the left wanting that.

      • matt227

        They don’t care.

        Infighting, personal loyalties, score settling, passive aggressiveness, bitterness, hatred, etc. are all more important to them than actual policy.

        They would rather settle scores with the DNC and Hillary than prevent Trump from nominating federal judges.

        • Ninja0980

          That’s how it’s always been sadly.

  • Baby Dave

    Voter turnout in 2012 nationwide was 53% of eligible voters. That’s the lowest figure of any developed country in the world, with an inspiring candidate and a lot at stake. 47% of eligible voters chose none of the above.

    Now, think about that. Why are so many eligible voters absent from the polls?

    Some of it has to do with how we run elections. We hold them on Tuesday, a day when most of us have to work or go to school. Many states have insane voter ID laws, designed specifically to turn voters away from the polls. Many employers will schedule employees known for their anti-corproate views a double or triple shift on voting day just to keep them from voting.

    Most of it has to do with alienation. The GOP doesn’t really inspire anyone, they run almost entirely on anger and fear. The Democrats don’t inspire anyone either, they generally run on “at least we’re not Republicans”, and will chide anyone who suggests the Democratic Party itself might be part of the problem. Third Party and Independent candidates are dismissed as irrelevant. So why bother voting at all?

    Many don’t, for this very reason.

    This year, a campaign emerged which tapped into the 47% who don’t normally vote. They did this time, and won states for their candidate late into the Democratic primary. They spent countless hours door knocking, phone banking. They donated what they had managed to save over the years. This campaign inspired many people whom neither the DNC or the RNC have ever been able to reach.

    These voters foolishly believed they were participating in a fair contest. They thought the Democrats, less vile than the GOP, would play fair. As they campaigned however, it became apparent the Party had already decided who they were going o nominate, before any debates or primaries took place. The very Chair of the DNC herself was openly biased. They complained about it, and were dismissed with that condescending tone suggesting they were sore losers.

    And they kinda grumbled but mostly spent a month accepting defeat, more or less. Then Wikileaks pored they were right. The primary had been rigged, the DNC had it’s thumb on Clinton’s side of the scale the whole time. The Party and its rabid core dismissed this 47% as insurgents or stooges, poured derision on them and tried to ignore their complaints. And even the 47%’s candidate let them down.

    Now, almost half of eligible voters are fucking pissed at the DNC. They see it as corrupt, with a veneer of sanctity disguising an old-boy’s club in it’s deeper layers.

    You’re going to have a hard time containing that rage. You’ve tapped into forces way beyond your ken. With every passing dismissal, you fuel our rage. You can either reckon with us, or run the risk that these voters will turn on you in an act of sheer spite.

    Take us seriously, or lose.

    • “Take us seriously, or lose.”
      Are you asking for Hillary as the nominee to take you seriously? Are you asking the Democratic party to take you seriously? Are you asking Democratic voters to take you seriously?
      What would you need to see from Hillary / the Democratic party / Democratic voters for you to feel you are being taken seriously?
      I mean this in all seriousness. Thanks, Bob

      • Baby Dave

        The Democratic Party and Hillary, in that order.

        The DNC has to make substantive changes to peal to disaffected Berners, and it has to act NOW. The Party is hemorrhaging voters. Instead of simply ignoring he blood, the DNC must stem the flow to avoid crashing and bleeding out.

        Nominating Tim Kaine, a corporate shill, was tone deaf and stupid. Knowing there’s this horde of anti-corporate voters with a serious case of existential angst, and a fuckton of emails that could turn that angst into a raging forest fire, they needed to nominate someone who could appeal to the Berners, someone who could say, “Look, one of our own is about to be one heartbeat from the Presidency”. The Party needed to bring us into the room, into the conversation, into power. Instead, they just ignored us. Fucking stupid.

        Now that the forest fire is in full swing, you need to quit fucking around and act. Unless we see some serious concessions- say, naming one of our candidates as the future speaker of the house, or at least party whip, or adopting a stridently anti-corporatist platform including a pledge to break up the big banks, strengthen Dodd-Frank and bring back Glass-Steagle, repeal Taft-Hartley and the PATRIOT ACT, and introduce Universal Single Payer, bankruptcy protection from student loans and some kind of scheme to fund college tuition- the DNC is in some deep shit.

        I get emails from Philadelphia every few hours from friends who are on the ground organizing there. They’re organizing a mass walkout intended to demonstrate the hemorrhage the Party refuses to acknowledge. If the DNC wants to avoid this, the time to act is right now.

        As for Hillary, she needs to lay off the cronyism. She looks corrupt as hell right now, with emails suggesting the Party circumvented the popular will to ensure she won the primary. You’re seeing Democrats at the DNC- registered Democrats- calling or her to be brought up on criminal charges at true convention where she’s about to be nominated. That ought to scare the shit out of you. When your loyal party members are turning on you, what do you think the mush less reliable electorate will do to you? For fuck’s sake, stop picking old friends for key posts. Steal some of the Bernie people, if nothing else to unite your goddamn party behind you. And pick people based on qualification, not on how long they’ve been friends of your political family.

        • Dramphooey

          You’re like an abusive mate. You threaten when it’s appropriate, you whine when it’s appropriate and you always belittle. “You’re nothing without me.” There is nothing we can do that will satisfy you except kowtowing. I think it is high time we followed the advice from Dan Savage: DTMFA. Dump The Mother Fucker Already.

          • Baby Dave

            Go fuck yourself

    • Berdawn Hutchinson

      thank you for articulating so well what the Hillary or else folks seem to be missing. The Dems had an opportunity and they blew it. Even with the release of the emails, Clinton had an opportunity and squandered it by placing DWS in her campaign.

      • Gene

        so…you will vote, or not, like an upset child, take your toy and go home…and, let the rest of us deal with the disaster of Trump?

        you cannot even see the wisdom that Sanders us showing in pointing out the UTTER stupidity of not supporting Clinton and letting Trump win?

        all about you, aint it though (if such is indeed the case)

      • MattM

        Translation: what about ME!?!?!

        What a shame your sense of righteousness trumps doing the right thing.

      • Dramphooey

        Make sure they update the chant today to “head on a pike! Head on a pike!”

    • Dramphooey

      “Almost half of eligible voters are fucking pissed at the DNC.” You pulled that number right out of your ass and you can put it right back there for all I care.

      • Baby Dave

        This is why you’re losing in the polls. You stab your friends in the back, and when they scream “Ouch”, all you can say is “Stop making so much noise”.

        Fuck you. I’ll see you again in 2020 when you try yet again

        • MattM

          Which polls are we losing? Cite your sources. It’s not up to us to prove you’re right.

          • Dramphooey

            Unskewed Polls.

          • MattM

            So no actual sources? You’ll have to do better than that.

    • bob

      Amen. Thanks for the voice of sanity. I’m a lifelong Democrat, but don’t know if I can maintain that any longer.

      If the Dems lose, it will be a catastrophe; but a catastrophe they brought upon themselves. We’re supposed to rally around a corrupt and criminal candidate because she is somehow ‘better’ than the other option. I reject that. Give voters decent choices, or we all will reap the consequences.

  • Gerry Fisher

    If the Green Party–or any other third-party effort–was serious, we’d hear about them starting in late November, NOT now. There’s other, more important work to be done right now.

  • Johnny Wyeknot

    Ralph Nader.

  • Lumpy Gaga

    Still one more day of boorish behavior before The Vote tonight.

    • danolgb

      I’ve heard rumors that there was a breakfast vote from the hotel rooms. Tonight is just for show.

      • Lumpy Gaga

        They put the choices right on the room-service menus? How thoughtful.

        * egg-white omelette
        * coffee
        * Hillary Clinton

      • Lumpy Gaga

        There’s still going to have to be an announcement, and thus, the rending of garments, and the tears of the Sanderistas.

        • danolgb

          Imagine when Bernie turns over his votes to Hillary.

          • Maybe that is when they will begin their fart -in. It should be a gas.

      • Treant

        That’s the way they do it. They have the official votes done and tabulated under the rules, tonight is just for pomp and circumstance.

        So yes, since nobody’s leaked anything to the contrary, Hillary Clinton is already the official and recorded nominee.

  • …and we won’t talk about the Green Party’s refusal to acknowledge scientific fact when it comes to the medical profession. Makes you wonder what *other* scientific facts are too inconvenient for them.

    • in 2000, Green Party Ralph Nader said “I took votes away from Bush and Gore equally” I think he took more votes away from Gore, but there was less of an ideological difference between Bush and Gore in late 2000 than Clinton and Trump today. Bush’s hard right turn did not come until after 9/11. Gore was more hated by the left of the party than Hillary is now (it might sound incredible but he was). There is no way – none — that Jill Stein can claim she is not damaging Hillary Clinton’s presidential chances like Nader did 16 years ago. Even her own supporters will not claim that. All they say is “we don’t care if that is true or not, we vote for the best candidate” (I have been challenging them on web sites). Big difference.

  • Is this obvious to anyone else? By eliminating “closed” party primaries that offer at lease a minimum amount of time, say 60 days, to eliminate tactical voter registration, you can avoid a situation where people who have absolutely no commitment to a party or its other candidates end up with an opportunity to cause damage to it. If any party has same-day registration in its primary, or allows cross-over voting from people not registered with it, and then eliminates the safety net of super-delegates, what insurance is there in the future that a well organized group does not have the power to take over and destroy that party in the future?

    • Treant

      That’s why I expect the superdelegate changes and suggested Primary changes to either be enacted this year and reversed next year, or simply swept under the rug and “forgotten.”

      Honestly, who–seeing the disaster that is Donald Trump–would wish to leave the party without a safety valve? It’s one thing I vehemently disagree with Sanders on. Supers are a Good Thing.

  • Snownova

    You upstart colonials aren’t ready for a 3rd party, but you NEED a 7th or 15th party! This bipartisan nonsense only leads to polarisation and extremism.

  • bob

    If Bernie transitioned to the Greens, he’d get my vote in a minute. (If it’s Stein, she gets it.)

    Too much self respect to vote for either Dumpf or Shillary.

  • 2 party system sell out. Trump and Clinton both have bad favorability ratings in the polls. The Republicans have a #nevertrump problem. Democrats have a Bernie or Bust problem. Meanwhile Gary Johnson of the Libertarian Party and Jill Stein of the Green Party are both polling higher each time they’re actually included in a poll.

    Combine that with:

    · Most Americans don’t vote
    · Most Americans want more choices besides Ds and Rs
    · Congress continues to break records for all time low ‘approval’ ratings
    · Millennials have less party affiliation allegiance than previous generations
    · Registered American voters are picking “independent” more than Democrat or Republican

    Lastly, people are not buying the tired old lesser of evil excuses about spoiler effect, SCOTUS, Duverger’s law, Electoral College, 12th amendment, “wasted vote” / “they can’t win,” “most important election of our lifetime” fear mongering anymore.

    Like it or not, the end of the failed 2 party system is inevitable.

    • Bruno

      If it’s inevitable, then why don’t you just let it happen instead of expounding at length on blogs? Unless you’re actually trying to get people to do something or vote a certain way?

      • Really? I cannot take that question seriously. I speak up for the same reason I spoke up for LGBT equality in a hostile area for gays back when it was dangerous and unpopular to do so back in 2003. I stand up for my beliefs. I make myself known to unite with like-minded people. LGBTs who vote outside the failed 2 party system are a minority. Anyway you made your points yesterday. Aside from trying to admonish me for thinking differently than you is there another reason why you’re seeking my attention?

        • Bruno

          I’m not seeking your attention, I’m seeking you to get lost. That’s the opposite of seeking your attention.

          • If that is true then don’t bait me for attention. The world’s full of people you won’t like and get along with. Yesterday you said you’re older? How old do you have to be to stop baiting people for attention if you don’t like them?

          • Bruno

            As I said, I’m not seeking your attention, I’m seeking for you to shut up with your pie-in-the-sky delusions. At your age, too, unbelievable. At any rate, since you won’t comply, I’ll just have to block your ass. Which is going to feel VERY nice to do. Have a nice rest of your life, and don’t be surprised if more than a few others on here do the same after your subsequent bloviations.

          • That’s what it’s there for – people like you who need to stay in your conformation bias bubble. Have fun.

    • James

      Inevitable it may be, but back in the reality based community the inescepable fact is that one of only two people will be the next president, and if you don’t vote for Clinton you’re effectively voting for Trump.

      • For every you there’s an equally adamant Trump supporter telling me if I vote outside the 2 party system then I’m helping Clinton win. I should introduce you two. You seem to have the hobby of defending the failed 2 party system in common.

        • James

          I’m not defending the two-party system, but if you think that a vote for anyone except Trump or Clinton isn’t (a) a wasted vote and (b) a dangerous game in this election, then you’re a fool. There is literally no chance that anyone except Clinton or Trump will win the presidency; you have to make a choice. And if you’re so convinced that a third or additional parties can become significant players in U.S. politics, then you should be trying to get some of those parties’ representatives elected to state office, and then national office, building up support, and, ultimately, coming up with viable candidates from those parties for the presidency; right now, there isn’t a single person who isn’t the current Democratic or Republican nominee who has even the remotest chance of being president. So again: you have to make a choice. If you don’t want Donald Trump to be president, the only sensible, logical thing to do is to vote for Clinton, even if it means holding your nose while you do it.

          • A wasted vote is voting for two failed party’s that collectively give us lie-based war, poverty, pollution, and eradication of civil liberties. You know the idea that every voter is going to vote D or R is a silly and unrealistic expectation. Gary Johnson is on the brink of getting in the debates. Social media is full of “#demexit” folks flocking to the Green party. Things are changing.

            Also, I hear from Republicans nearly word for word what you just wrote – they just switch Trump and Clinton the other way around. Same laughable hysteria every election cycle. And what happens? The 2 party system goes on rotating in cycles. Same crap, different day.

          • James

            Bullshit. You didn’t respond to anything I actually said. And if you truly think that someone from some other party is going to come from behind and take the presidency, you’re a moron.

          • By November? Possible but I doubt it. In my lifetime? For sure. The Pew and Gallop data makes that clear.

          • James

            In your lifetime, definitely possible. By November, not a chance in hell. If you’re a reasonable person and not a Righwing nutjob, then you don’t want Donald Trump to be president. And like it or not, the only way to be certain of preventing that is for as many people as possible to vote for Clinton.

          • Have you ever been trained for voter outreach by a political campaign?

          • James

            Nope. Just giving you the facts.

          • You should if you want HRC to win so badly. One thing they’ll teach you is know when to walk away. When you’ve made your best pitch and the person you’re trying to convince won’t agree after a second time your time is better spent moving on to the next person. No means no so I don’t know how I can be any clearer to you that I won’t vote for Clinton or Trump.

            As I’ve already indicated: for every hysterical Democrat throwing a fit over someone leaving the failed 2 party system there’s a hysterical Republican doing the same.

          • James

            You are still missing the point. It isn’t that I “want Clinton to win so badly.” There is only one choice in this election: Clinton or Trump. I think that, actually, Clinton will make a decent president. But there is nothing more important in this election than keeping the presidency from Donald Trump. I’m truly sorry that you’re too stupid to understand that there is only one choice to be made this year. I’m sorry you’re too stupid to realize that you will be wasting your vote if you choose someone other than Clinton or Trump in November. I’m sorry you’re too stupid to realize that protest votes are almost always wasted–and that’s if they don’t backfire: look at Brexit. So by all means: be one of the 1.5% of voters who pick someone else. Waste your vote. Increase the possibility that an incompetent, thin-skinned racist will take the presidency. Just don’t try to make out that those who are warning you not to do so are hysterical fools, because you’re the fool. Don’t talk to me about the “failed two-party system” when you have done nothing to change it–and changing it doesn’t mean bitching every four years about the failed two-party system and then throwing your vote away on someone whose chances of winning are effectively zero. Changing it, as I’ve already explained, means doing the years of slow groundwork of having a great platform, building support, getting representatives elected to local, then state, then national office, and finally presenting the country with a viable presidential candidate. You have done exactly none of those things, and every alternative party that currently exists is either insignificant or a joke or both.

          • I’m not sure what part of No More 2 Party System you don’t understand.

          • James

            Ugh, you’re a hopeless moron. Go away now.

          • Use your block feature if you can’t handle it.

          • James

            You misunderstand, again. A perfect, and sad, product of the American public education system.

          • OR you did your best to convince me to vote for the failed 2 party system and I was unconvinced by your nonsense. I deal with as many pouting Republicans every day if it’s any consolation.

          • James

            The facts that you think it’s nonsense and that you believe a vote for Clinton is a “vote for the failed 2 party system” only go to show the depth of your stupidity. You are an idiot.

          • I’m sure everyone who disagrees with you is. If helping Clinton win is so important to you a better use of your time is not ranting to someone who’s made clear NO More 2 Party System.

          • James

            Not everyone who disagrees with me. But definitely people who, like you, are failing to recognize or to admit the importance of this upcoming election and the disastrous consequences their stupid, ill-considered, ultimately pointless decision may bring about. I’ve already told you what needs to be done to end the two-party system (two-party has a hyphen in it, by the way); voting for someone besides Clinton or Trump will do absolutely nothing to advance that goal and may in fact go some way towards preventing it.

          • There’s many things needed to be done to end the failed 2 party system. Remind me – which one are you again – the Democrat or Republican? You both repeat the same 2 party system hostage excuses so I lose track.

          • James

            You’re an idiot.

    • Ross

      Jill received less than half of 1% of the popular vote in 2012.

      It would seem that third party candidates are the ones failing.

      • And why is that? Unfair election lase + media bias and blackout. But now thanks to the Never Trump and Bernie or Bust crowds alt parties are on the brink of getting in the debates.

        Look at millennials polling. The 2 party system will be ending in the next generation.

  • clungeflaps

    All this has done is proven that Hillary is an ineffectual and wimpy leader. Obama would have had everybody in line by now.

    Half of the people at the convention can’t stand her, imagine how the house and senate will tear her apart. She will be utterly useless as president. She’s done.

    • Ross

      Yes, dear.

      Now, time to take your pills.

  • Bill_Perdue

    Thankfully, things are up to quislings like Sanders.

    People were drawn to his proposals in the vain hope of changing politics by trying to reform the Democrats. That cannot be done. They and the Republicans share a common program on most questions and all of their candidates are right centrists, indistinguishable from one another.

    Former Sanders supporters now have an independent voice and given the latest HRH HRC/DNC DWS Watergate revelations, it’s an open question how many of them will allow themselves to be thrown into the sewer and end up supporting Democrats, the centrist wing of the Republican Party.

    Like the people who were gulled by Obama, they’ll move left and as they do the labor left and socialists will meet them with open arms.

  • Good. Nice to see Senator Sanders understands what is at stake now, even if so many deluded, self-indulgent fools do not.

  • yowsuh123

    Oy!

  • PiperPine

    Not a shocking statement. I do think Sanders is right to an extent. The press doesn’t give the other parties much oxygen and the system is stacked against them. There needs to be serious ballot reform in the USA and the Electoral College needs to be destroyed. Sadly there is little true will for those reforms and those other parties become protest votes with low impact. It doesn’t help that most of these parties have terrible management and strategy.

    That said I support voting for other parties as long as someone is honest about the impact of their vote. Just remember to vote down ticket.

    All that said Dr. Stein is playing into some very bad stereotypes about the Green Party and she’d be careful how much she wants to toy with them.

  • Margueritesrivera3

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