Orlando Sentinel: Regular Patrons Say They Saw The Killer At Pulse Nightclub At Least A Dozen Times

From the Orlando Sentinel:

At least four regular customers of Pulse, the nightclub where the massacre took place, said Monday that they believe they had seen Mateen there before.

“Sometimes he would go over in the corner and sit and drink by himself, and other times he would get so drunk he was loud and belligerent,” said Ty Smith, who also uses the name Aries.

He saw Mateen at the club at least a dozen times, he told the Orlando Sentinel.

“We didn’t really talk to him a lot, but I remember him saying things about his dad at times,” Smith said. “He told us he had a wife and child.”

Mateen’s ex-wife, Sitora Yusufiy, held a news conference and according to CNN described him as seriously mentally ill.

“In the beginning he was a normal being that cared about family, loved to joke, loved to have fun, but then a few months after we were married I saw his instability. I saw that he was bipolar and he would get mad out of nowhere. That’s when I started worrying about my safety,” she said.

(Tipped by JMG reader Mike)

  • Chrissy

    “he would get mad out of nowhere.” sounds like fox news viewers

  • I.Smith

    How long till Brian Brown uses this to say the shooter was a homosexual.

    • DaveMiller135

      My money’s on Tony Perkins getting there first.

      • Just Another Tranny

        PerKKKins, fixed that for you 😉

        • bkmn

          Tony Duggar PerKKKins.

          • Harley

            No. It’s Duggar Duggar Duggar.

    • Cousin Bleh

      Isn’t that what most of the commenters here are doing?

      • Guess

        With the preceding descriptors “self-loathing” “closeted-by-religion” and “Daddy-issue-laden”. Duggar-PerKKKins and Brownie won’t find it convenient to give it that much thought.

      • Skokieguy [Larry]

        I understand the concerns. But enough has come out for them to do it regardless. I think we should never be afraid to discuss issues out of fear of its potential impact on the narrative. If we do so we are being silenced.

    • Well he sort of fits the profile of the self loathing closet case type.

  • hiker_sf

    Well, we better go bomb a Middle East country or something. Or better yet, because Timothy McVeigh was also from New York, let’s build a wall around it to keep the country safe. What we will do is this: Everything, including the near impossible to avoid taking-on the gun lobby, which is the only solution.

    • m_lp_ql_m

      Is that an iPhone? Obviously, we need to ban Apple products.

  • Lakeview Bob

    Oh god. Please Please don’t tell me he was a closet case full or hate and rage for his own feelings.

    • PickyPecker

      Is what my first thoughts were, Bob. That and perhaps he was casing the club.

      • Mike in Houston

        I’d say he was casing the place — to make put people at ease with his coming & going… and it wouldn’t surprise me if he were a deeply closeted homophobe.

      • Jerry Hinnant

        He wasn’t there casing the place a dozen times. He purposely went 2 hours away from where he lived to avoid anyone knowing him. There is no doubt in my mind this man was a closeted man tortured between his desire to be who he really was and his loyalty to his radical father and religion. I have no doubt he was on a suicide mission and to much of a coward to do it alone so he wanted to destroy those who had what he never could.

    • Gest2016

      OK free blowjobs to the next angry looking closet case! It may save lives! volunteers?

      • Christopher

        Ha!

      • Skokieguy [Larry]

        You’re bad. Come sit next to me.

    • Michael McReavy
  • AtticusP

    Self-loathing closet case snaps and blames religion.

    Just another day in the monkey house that America has become.

    Speaking of monkeys: has the presumptive Republican presidential nominee flung any poo today?

    • Todd Allis

      It’s a day that ends in “y,” so probably.

    • Michael Rush

      he’s implying that Hillary is coming to take ALL of the guns

      http://media.crooksandliars.com/2016/06/33742.mp4_high.mp4

      This kind of black and white / all or nothing
      thinking is the sign of a weak mind .

      • AtticusP

        If only…

        Why is it that the right wing’s worst nightmare is one of my fondest dreams?

        I must be a “libtard”, as the swampizens at Breitbart.com would call me.

        • doninkansas

          are not called “sheeple” any longer? I can’t keep up with all of these names.

          • AtticusP

            If you like.

            Personally, as a rule, I prefer not to discuss them at all.

            But sometimes it just can’t be avoided.

          • Michael Rush

            The sheeple tag is so funny because what they want in
            Trump is a ” strong leader ” which he isn’t of course .

      • Goodboy

        Funny that I’ve never heard her say that once. Fucking POS liar.

      • Circle Thomas

        He’s also implying Obama was somehow complicit in the shooting.

        http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/trumps-implication-obama-was-involved-in-the-orlando-shooting/486770/

        But fuck that worthless sack of shit. I’m over him and his obnoxious reality show shenanigans. I can’t control the haters, but I can work towards getting Clinton elected in November and getting gun reform finally passed.

        • TuuxKabin

          AND, I just heard him on NPR saying he is a better choice for LGBT voters/community, that she does not support us. He’s unraveling, little bit at a time, but I sure hope he’s unraveling.

          • kaydenpat

            Yet he would select SCOTUS justices to overturn Obergefell.

          • TuuxKabin

            Non existent heaven help us.

      • Robincho

        Inability to “do” nuance is never a good sign…

    • tcinsf

      He’s revoking the Washington Post’s press credentials, so yes, poo is being flung.

      • AtticusP

        Oh, but I’ll bet it is the most magnificent poo; the greatest poo that you’ve ever seen; the Cadillac of poo.

        And it’s HUUUGGGE!!

        • Frank McCormick

          Sad!

      • andrew

        Even bigger “poo” is his insinuation that our president sympathizes with terrorists. Trump is scum.

    • another_steve

      Be it true or false, I don’t think the community wants/needs to promulgate a “he was a closet case” meme.

      If that becomes the conventional wisdom, the press coverage of the massacre will change in ways that would not be helpful to the community and its allies.

      • AtticusP

        If his computer turns up lots of photos of nude men and tons of man on man action, that makes him a closet case in my book, Steve.

        Perhaps I’m jumping to conclusions, but if it’s true that he was at the club several times, I doubt it was just to scowl at people.

        Whether we like it or not, if that’s the narrative, that is what will have to be dealt with.

        • another_steve

          I hear you. I’m only suggesting that if it turns out he was gay, the narrative will change to “disturbed homosexual took his revenge.”

          The homophobia aspect would disappear from the discussion.

          • AtticusP

            Don’t be so sure. The right wing is so adamant about getting our president to use the words “Islamic extremism”, and the “journalists” are busily egging them on. Trump and his followers hate Islam, and that takes precedence in their minds.

            The likes of Brian Brown and Tony PerKKKins will probably use the shooter’s sexuality in their pitiful fundraising efforts. But they’re running out of things to make money on.

            Because LGBT people are everywhere, more and more people are seeing us fellow human beings, instead of “lifestyles”. And that’s a very good thing, I think.

          • another_steve

            If it turns out he was gay, discussions of Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism and homophobia and Donald Trump’s tweets on the story, etc etc etc will recede to the background. The “sexier” story for the press and our enemies will be his gayness.

            Brian Brown and his fellow monsters will have a field day. The fundraising potential for them will be astronomical.

          • AtticusP

            Well, I guess we shall see.

            No matter what happens, you can bet that the media will squeeze every bit of sensationalism out of this that they can.

            How I long for the days before the 24 hour news cycle, and before the news division became a profit center for wealthy people.

          • another_steve

            “How I long for the days before the 24 hour news cycle…”

            Me too. The 24/7 news cycle has resulted in a ton of premature/factually wrong garbage on cable news and on the web. With all that airtime to fill out, it’s also made it more appealing for the cable stations to give frequent platforms to human dreck. A good example of that is CNN’s obsession with Jeffrey Lord, the monster robot spokesman for Trump on CNN.

          • AtticusP

            I know, right?

            Breaking news: Justin Bieber gets knocked on his ass.

            I remember when breaking news was that someone fired three shots at President Kennedy’s motorcade in Dallas.

            A no-talent little Canadian pretty boy punk gets his comeuppance? THAT is “breaking news”?!

            Somewhere, Walter Cronkite is weeping.

          • another_steve

            Ah, Walter. I’m old enough to remember watching Walter.

            My favorite parts of the cable news programming these days are those ominous-sounding intros they use to introduce certain stories. Sort of like the soundtracks from 1950s horror flicks.

            Or sometimes (particularly in their coverage of the race for President), the intros that sound like the announcer from World Wide Wrestling or whatever.

            “In this corner, fightin’ for her political life, Hillary Clinton…”

          • AtticusP

            Thanks to Donald Trump, the presidential contest this time around has been reduced to the level of a circus sideshow.

            How the rest of the world must be laughing at us! First, Dubya was foisted on them. Now they are presented with the possibility of a giant demented Cheeto with the temperament of a four-year-old Tourette’s patient’s occupying the Oval Office.

            We live in very scary times.

          • Cboulder

            This shit started after9/11 when actual news was demoted to a ticker below the screen all that was left was a bunch of uninformed overpaid opinion-slinging assholes. What a country indeed!

          • BobSF_94117

            There was that brief moment when 24 news was a step forward. It only lasted a couple years, but for a while it looked like providing the news could be profitable, with a wide range of stories from bureaus around the world. Then they discovered they could make even more money by keeping the format and closing bureaus and putting a few stories on endless loop, the fluffier the story, the better.

          • AtticusP

            Before I canceled my satellite TV service, I used to watch the Weather Channel. I seem to remember that, at its inception, it was designed to provide ongoing forecasts for the viewers’ local areas.

            Last time I checked, all I could find were documentaries on tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis, etc.

            I just want a freaking weather forecast! Is that too much to ask?

          • Skokieguy [Larry]

            And if it does, then what made him disturbed? The hatred he was training in by his father, his religion & society. Their hands are still bloodied.

          • another_steve

            You and I know that, Larry… but try getting the mainstream media to pick up on that angle.

          • Skokieguy [Larry]

            Our voice need to remain strong and we do have very eloquent speakers and some media that will potentially understand this.

        • Misutaa Roboto

          He does sound a lot like a closeted guy from the pieces we have heard (and that’s where I’d put my money, sad to say), but to be fair, it’s also reasonable to suspect that someone who plans to commit a mass murder in a specific place would want to be very familiar with the terrain and patterns of what goes on before acting.

          • AtticusP

            Possibly. But I still say that he was doing more than just reconnoitering the place.

            His wife said that he had severe mental problems. If he was conflicted about his sexuality and had been repressing his urges, maybe it all just suddenly came to a head. Seeing two men kissing was the fuse that set him off. Hard for me to fathom, but there you have it.

            I know one thing: I wouldn’t want to be a part of this investigation. So much sadness.

          • Skokieguy [Larry]

            In an earlier post a drag queen called him a friend and that he often used to visit his store and he things he showed the killer pics of him performing.

            He also spent a lot of time at the gym, and we all know married men never longingly check out other men.

          • Misutaa Roboto

            Pretty much agreed (and I hadn’t realized until reading more in the thread that he had to drive for hours to get to the place). I don’t fully believe that it was seeing two men kissing that set him off, though, especially if he had been visiting this place several times.

            What a tragic, horrific event this whole thing was.

          • AtticusP

            And the problem, of course, is that after all of the funerals are over, and after all of the editorials are written, and after all of the outraged letters to the editor are sent, America will settle back and before very long will start to wonder what the latest news from the Kardashian’s or Caitlyn Jenner is.

            Until the next massacre happens. And then we get to do it all over again.

            You know how they say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

            I’d say this is a textbook case.

        • Kruhn

          Not quite my friend, the situation is still fluid and these people may have recollected incorrectly. You might be right, but let’s wait until the dust clears a little more.

      • andrew

        The truth, whatever it is, should be found out and told.

      • Skokieguy [Larry]

        Possible, but it can still be countered with facts that hatred and demonization of LGBT people case people to hate themselves so deeply in sometimes crosses over into mental illness.

        Part of his radicalization was probably from the good ol’ USA from preachers and politicians who call for our death, celebrate this massacre and cast us as evil deviants.

        I’ve said in earlier threads, his ex wife claimed he used steroids and he may have been bi polar. The impact of drug use also has to be investigated.

    • Cuberly

      Oh gawd! He basically laid his plans down for his fascist isolationist state today. When you think drumpf can’t get any worse he lowers the bar even more.

      • AtticusP

        And the lemmings are lapping it up, no doubt…

        As Yakov Smirnov used to say: “What a country!”

        And not in a good way.

    • kaydenpat

      He suggested that President Obama was somehow responsible for this tragedy. Of course.

  • Raising_Rlyeh

    So, the right-wing is already happy to say that it wasn’t religiously motivated homophobia. How long until they are saying that it was just an upset gay man who killed 49 people because he didn’t have jesus.

    • Skokieguy [Larry]

      Or because they told him Jesus hates him.

  • MBear

    not a very good radical muslim if he’s hanging out in gay bars

    • Gest2016

      Oh I’m sure it was just “research”. He had to “get to the bottom” of things if you know what I mean.

      • MBear

        I was in a very heated discussion with a gay friend in the UK today – he insisted on playing the ‘radical islam’ card. This information kind of clouds that ‘radicalised by ISIS’ thing and points us more to an extremely troubled person who made some really shitty choices affecting hundreds (thousands?) of lives because of religious and/or cultural bigotry against LGBTs.

    • Goodboy

      What they preach and what they do in private usually are at odds with each other.

    • DonnaLee

      And drinking to the point of being known for being annoying.
      Bad Muslim.

  • Mike in Texas

    I ran across a similar article on a site that didn’t seem terribly trustworthy. (Can’t remember the name). It mentioned something about him hanging around with a drag queen too. if it pops up again, I’ll post a link. But like I said, I don’t put a lot of trust in material from the site.

    • Edmund Allin

      The Daily Beast, you mean?

    • mwest

      I think the article was about them being friendly because they worked in the same complex and they were recent graduates of the same high school. This was apparently years ago before the killer was radicalized and/or started to have all those anger and violent issues his ex wife talks about.

  • Sonus Silentium

    A picture is starting to emerge of a sad, tormented man who longed to act on desires his father had taught him Allah would punish severely. Eventually the cognitive dissonance became too much and he snapped. The sight of happy gay men reveling in happiness together was more than he could bear – it negated his very existence as a man living a sham life in order to please Allah and Daddy.

    Thanks, Daddy. Thanks, Islam.

    • Edmund Allin

      A bit like the Paris bombers, IIRC.

      Oh dear, this might get Trump to refine his position to exclude all Muslims. His “straight” friends could come across, but gay Muslims couldn’t.

    • Gest2016

      Yet there’s something more to it than this. NOBODY slaughters 50 people for these reasons. I am denied the acceptance and privilege of being heterosexual, often at the price of great pain, like when I can’t hold my partners hand in public. But I won’t slaughtser 50 random straight people to “get even”. This guy has the typical “dead eyes” of a sociopath / psychopath.

      • Edmund Allin

        When people snap, they snap. And armed with a gun that fires off rounds like crazy, 2 dead is little different to 50 dead or 1,000 dead.

        • Gest2016

          You make a good point. Perhaps with the ready availability of slaughter devices for all, the threshold of being a psychopath has been lowered to the point where those with mood disorders qualify. What a terrifying country we live in.

          • Edmund Allin

            To be honest, the first time WDW started to rummage through my backpack as I entered their parks, I was a little surprised and miffed – it spoilt the experience – but now I’m glad.

      • ElenorRigby

        Regardless… it’s over. Straight people can now point to this story and say that this is “gay on gay crime” and I’m sure the Christians will call this “a lover’s quarrel.”

      • YourNameHere

        Compounded by having a severe mental illness?

    • TK

      He’s a cold-blooded killer who lured his victims into a false sense of security by entering their safe space and becoming familiar. This way when he decided to strike people wouldn’t be alarmed when he showed up…they would just think, “Oh, look, he’s back again” and then he slaughters them.

      • band

        Reports say Mateen stormed the club Sunday morning. He did not enter as a regular patron and then brandish hidden weapons.

    • Goodboy

      I wish we could go after the Dad. He’s most definitely part of this. Cause and effect if you will. At least deport his hateful ass back to Afghanistan where he belongs.

      • djcoastermark

        His dad does seem to be problematic. I’m thinking, or at least hoping, the FBI or CIA or someone is taking a better look at him. His actions are bit sketchy from what I’ve seen.

    • Friday

      Assuming, of course, they’re even talking about the same guy.

    • paisleyface

      Religion + guns + self loathing = this.

      I shared your reply on FB.

      I also thing what his wife said about his instability becoming evident a few months after they married is pretty telling. He was finding no joy in his sexual life with the woman he thought would cure him.

      • RaygunsGoZap

        Unless there’s proof of a mental health diagnosis, I’m not buying it. Anger over your lot in life and lashing out isn’t mental illness, you’re just an asshole.

        • paisleyface

          You have unusually high expectations to think that all or even most out there with mental health issues have an actual diagnosis. Most people with mental health issues don’t even know it, as you’ve shown us here. I’ll add that if it wasn’t for asshole’s like me, shitheads like you would have no possibility of existence.

          • RaygunsGoZap

            Sorry you took offense at that, dipshit. Mental illness may have been a factor but every single person or their defenders and apologists invoking it makes it reaonably suspect. You just saw an opportunity to be shitty and you took it because that’s who you are. Accepted. Forgiven.

          • paisleyface

            No, thanks, MENSA-lite. The next time I want to hear from an asshole, I’ll fart.

          • RaygunsGoZap

            Forgiven again. Sorry you’re stuck.

    • Steverino

      And thank you Richard Nixon for the “Southern Strategy.” And thank you Ronald Reagan for building upon Nixon’s legacy, supporting the southern-style religious right, aiding and abetting the HIV/AIDS crisis, and defunding mental health care. And thank you, George H.W. Bush, and George W. Bush for aiding and abetting the rise of radical Islam. And thank you, GOP congressmen and senators in the pockets of NRA lobbyists, for perpetuating this money-making, death cult madness.

      The fucking modern GOP. Where is a revitalized House Committee on Un-American Activities to defang these enemies within, when we need one? Oh, that’s right, the House is under the thumb of the gerrymandered GOP, and their lobbyist masters.

      Dwight David Eisenhower, and perhaps Gerald R. Ford, may have been the last relatively sane GOP presidents of the United States of America, before the party went to hell (literally), and is on course to take the rest of the country there, as well.

    • Netizan

      There’s more to it than Allah and Daddy if you add in the fact that he was bipolar and also may have used steroids. I hope they did a toxicology study on him. The combination of steroids and bipolar medications or just stopping the bipolar meds and adding the steroids could be the trigger that caused him to go from closet to killer.

    • Paul

      Orlando 2016 is what happens when you let a bunch of unskilled, low-IQ third world rubes into your prosperous Western liberal democracy.

      • kaydenpat

        White men have engaged in multiple shootings on many occasions. Take your racist nonsense somewhere else.

      • Todd20036

        The killer was an American citizen. He was born here.

        • Paul

          His parents immigrated here though.

          • BlueberriesForMe

            Many people’s parents immigrated here, asshole.

          • paisleyface

            Not all from the same place and not all from civilized places, asshole.

    • kaydenpat

      Thanks fundamentalism.

    • Robincho

      I like the way you think, Sonus Silentium…

    • ExGayTherapyKills

      He is the worse kind of terrorist, A closeted gay Muslim who could not be who he was and so in his twisted mind he thought he had to destroy that which he could not be, gay.

    • Luddite

      Yep. Closet Case Alert! Make sense

    • RaygunsGoZap

      Also, thanks Religious Right for using every despicable lie to turn our own people against themselves and us. Thanks, Tony. Thanks, Bryan and Sandy and Janet and Matt and Peter and Linda and Phyllis. Thanks, Pope Advocate Cover. Special thanks to all those who helped spread the lies and hate. Shout out to Fox, CNN, MSNBC and so so many others.

      Fuck Christianity. Fuck Christian privilege. Fuck hate and conflict and mendacity as entertainment and news.

    • MarkOH

      BINGO. I’ve thought this from the start and the more information that comes out, the clearer it becomes: he was an individual who was raised to despise what he, himself, was. And he lashed out at innocents due to the hate he was seeped in.

  • Edmund Allin

    I repeat, I’m fairly certain this guy was at least bi-curious or very deeply in the closet, relatively happy to remain there, until such time as increased exposure to religion made him descend into the very worst form of self-loathing.

    Men who are opposed to same-sex relationships who see other men kissing don’t generally get angry, they get uncomfortable.

    • m_lp_ql_m

      Straight men without religion have no problem with same-sex relationships.

      • My brother and his wife certainly don’t.

      • Capritaur

        My atheist father certainly does. He calls it “crime against humanity.”

        • Matthew Delemos

          Unfortunately, not every atheist is a humanist.

          • Capritaur

            We all have an animalistic tendency to marginalize others, but our capacity for reason and compassion typically keeps it in check. It is naive to blame homophobia on religion alone: religion is but one of many ways to justify it.

        • m_lp_ql_m

          Your father is more influenced by religion than he’d like to think. We all are.

          • Maggie 4NoH8

            I agree… Quick poll: as a child, did you attend school before or after your parents took you to church? Were you baptised – which is a serious fucking commitment and decision – before or after the legal age of voting? Before or after buying cigarettes, tobacco or alcohol? Before or after settling on and training for your lifetime vocation? Before or after picking your wife or husband? Before or after you knew how to read or write?

            Moral of the story – don’t whitewash when your parents cult began your brainwashing, or the impact of said brainwashing…

      • Marc

        Sadly, my non-believer father has a big problem with same-sex relationships. And more so for lesbians than gay guys.

        (But I do agree with you, generally speaking.)

        • m_lp_ql_m

          Then you have to ask, why is he like that? It’s certainly not a conclusion he came up with himself.

          • Marc

            Good question. He’s an old racist, and while he didn’t buy into religion, he certainly picked up the culture of the time.

          • Friday

            Atheist guys who hate queer gals usually feel like they’re being ripped off of two women they feel entitled to.

        • Edmund Allin

          Honestly, my totally cool, extremely agnostic father, who was all light and love to any and all people, also had a thing against us “perverts”. It was sad, in a way, because he was such a great father and role model in every other respect that I put off coming out to my family until after he died.

          My mother, almost equally agnostic, whose bigotry changes to fit whoever she doesn’t like at the time, needed no such delicate handling. She still insists that I’m going through a “phase” in our regular screaming matches.

          I’m 50. The reported “phase” has been going on for 27 years. 🙂

          • BobSF_94117

            You should tell her she was right and you’re dating a woman. At least it would be a break from the regular arguments. Do it in person, though.

        • JustSayin’

          Was he possibly jilted or turned down by a lesbian in his past?

          • Marc

            He probably never met an in-person, out lesbian to challenge his preconceptions. (Honestly.)

          • Maggie 4NoH8

            Texas-Values style??

    • Gest2016

      Theres something deeply sexual and twisted in his actions; unfortunately the dehumanizing rhetoric of people like Tony Perkins and Brian Brown and Muslim clerics with regards to gays blinded him to the humanity of his victims.

  • another_steve

    In this crazy, violent and insane world of ours, there needs to be more security in gay clubs and bars. Something more than a bouncer. Bags need to be searched. Maybe even pat-downs.

    Perhaps this discussion has already begun among the owners, I don’t know.

  • Rebecca Gardner

    HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I fucking called it. He droves hours from home to target this place because he was a gay man denied at the club and could not live with who he was.

    • TK

      It’s more likely that he was a making himself familiar to a crowd he intended to kill. When he finally made his deadly move people would be relaxed and allow him to enter into their safe space and strike.

      He’s not a gay man. He’s just a killer.

    • Tigernan Quinn

      Ha? You “called” it? Jesus Christ, did you really just gleefully have THAT reaction to a fucking massacre? Examine yourself.

    • Matthew Delemos

      Hmmm…I’d say not being able to live with yourself doesn’t come close to explaining the motive for mass murder. Suicide would be more common in that scenario. There is more to this than a closet case.

    • Todd E.

      I usually love your commentary, Rebecca, but “HA!!!!!!!!! I fucking called it?”

      Wow…just….wow. I hope you’re not as joyful about this as your comment implies.

      • JCF

        It’s a frustration/rage/grief-reaction “HA!” Don’t read so much into it; we’re all at our breaking-points.*

        *Non-AR15 variety. Thank God.

  • TK

    There’s a difference between hanging out and casing a joint. He probably wanted to be a familiar face so people wouldn’t wonder about him or pay too close of attention while he walked win with a large gun under his clothes.

    • Lazycrockett

      But becoming a belligerent drunk is only going to draw negative attention to you and make you stand out more. Doesn’t sound like something who is just casing the place would do.

      • TK

        Yes. Do you think he thought he was going to walk away from his killing spree? What would he care if he was remembered from a previous visit…and the more recognized you are, especially as a hothead, the more likely they are to leave you alone when you walk in.

        • Lazycrockett

          I don’t know bout Pulse but at the gay club I worked at in Chicago we very rarely allowed previously loud, belligerent drunks back into the premises. Granted we had a pretty tight security staff.

    • Goodboy

      You might be right. He at least needed to know how to get past security.

      • Lumpy Gaga

        Accomplished with gunfire, so … he wasn’t very good at it?

        • Goodboy

          I didn’t know he stormed his way in. Was thinking more like the fire starter at Neighbors in Seattle a couples years ago.

          • Lumpy Gaga

            I’ve been returning to that near-calamity in my mind since the Orlando story broke. God damn.

    • Henri205

      That was my first thought when I saw the headline.

  • Capritaur

    Abdeslam Salah, the mastermind behind the Paris attacks, also frequented the gay bars in Brussels. However, it was speculated that he was either there to scout potential targets, or to steal identity papers of unsuspecting patrons. In any case, there is no way to know for certain why in both cases the perpetrators are linked to gay bars, but it is plausible that Mateen had planned the attack for months and visited to familiarize himself with the place.

    • Harley

      And drink, and then get so drunk as to be belligerent? I don’t know, but it’s still early. I wouldn’t doubt his browser history and whatever social media he frequented will shed some more light on the motive.

      • Capritaur

        Certainly the closet case angle has its merits, too. However, with so little information available, we shouldn’t be so invested in one particular hypothesis without considering others, or try to push a particular narrative because it might be the most politically potent.

      • Reality.Bites

        Jews eat bacon.

        Christians work on Sunday.

        Catholics use birth control and have abortions.

        Why are people always surprised when someone who’s nominally Muslim drinks?

        • MBear

          all hypocrites

          • pleasebereasonable

            Just not observant…..

          • MBear

            choose to observe one thing while overlooking another = hypocrite
            see also: liar who knows their deity is fake, faker, douche, asshole

          • Chucktech

            If they otherwise make a BFD about their god or religion, damn right they’re hypocrites.

        • Hue-Man

          “Indeed, Iran has one of the most serious alcohol problems in the world. Although it ranks number 166 in alcohol consumption per capita, if you look at the World Health Organization estimates for people who drink 35 liters or more alcohol over the course of a year, the country comes in
          at 19th in the world. In other words, the number of alcoholics per capita puts Iran ahead of Russia (ranked 30), Germany (83), Britain (95), the United States (104) and Saudi Arabia (184).”

          http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/16/iran-s-drinking-problem.html

          Iran is 99.4% Muslim.

          • Maggie 4NoH8

            I’d drink too if I had to live in Iran.

          • DonnaLee

            Actually I’ve read that many of the under-30 crowd have been told they are to be Muslims, and there is nothing they can do about it. Not like they have a choice, and many seek to find raves where they can wear party clothing, drink, smoke something and have sex. But they can’t exactly go all countercultural there as we did in this country, because the government would just kill them outright.

    • Chitown Kev

      “All of the above” is also a possible answer.

  • TK

    WTF is the deal with you all immediately jumping to the conclusion that he is a closet case? Bullshit! He’s a cold-blooded killer who set a trap for a community he hated. He entered our world, our safe space and then he made his move.

    What better way to get large guns into a place than to make yourself known so people won’t give you a second glance? He is a killer.

    • band

      He can be both a cold-blooded killer AND a deeply troubled man struggling with same-sex attractions. They’re not mutually exclusive. AND studies have shown that the most virulent homophobes are often struggling with homosexual impulses.

      • Randy503

        Fact is, we just don’t know, and probably never will. Leave motives for Law and Order. The fact is that he killed people, and likely planned it. That’s enough for me.

      • Chitown Kev

        Long time, no see, band…how are things?

        • band

          Things are alright. Thanks for asking. It’s nice to be missed. (Or at least have one’s absence noted!)

          I still read JMG several times a day—and often link to it on FB. I just comment a lot less frequently because the content these days seems much more focused on the haters. That is, and has always been, a focus of Joe’s activism, and I applaud him for it. It’s just not content that I feel the need to weigh in on.

          Glad to see you’re still here. I hope you’re well, Kev.

    • EdmondWherever

      I don’t think I’ve seen anyone say this is a “conclusion”, just a possibility. Internalized homophobia can be a terrible companion to religious hatred of homosexuals.

      • JustSayin’

        No peopke here are saying it as if it is a fact. It is just idle speculation as another reason to get madder than we all already are.

        • Skokieguy [Larry]

          I think we are all speculating as to possible motives as much of the world is still doing right now.

    • Michael A. Lozoya

      Given his father is a homophobe, and that one patron interviewd said the terroeist had talked about issues with his father and the very first thing his father blamed it on was about a kiss between two men, who’s to say he wasn’t pushed to restore “honor” for his family. I’ll be an ass and say they should focus on his father a bit more. Sorry but I’ll jump to that conclusion, it still doesn’t mean it wasn’t a terrorist attack and a hate crime. There might be more to the story.

    • Lumpy Gaga

      He did have a gunfire exchange out front with a moonlighting cop before entering.

      (“Dammit! Why isn’t Javier working the door tonight? He always waives my cover!”

  • Get Real

    I immediately wondered if he was a severe closet case. I am shocked (at the level of carnage) but I am not shocked that he had conflicts with his family, sexuality, his twisted take on Islam and his mental state.

    • WillMoor

      He wasn’t a closet case. He was casing the place.

      • Get Real

        I am not sure of this. I have a lot of doubts…

      • Tor

        Maybe both. I’m sorry he’s dead,so we will never know. I also wish other mass murders were alive so we could learn their motives.

        • Get Real

          Forensics will reveal alot. We will know which sites he has been surfing very shortly. I am willing to bet he masturbated to male porn.

      • Chucktech

        You don’t need to go to a bar 12 times and get drunk to “case’ the joint.

      • Platos_Redhaired_Stepchild

        Nobody needs to case a place for three years.

  • bkmn

    All this proves is intent. He targeted the LGBT community, bought his assault rifle and planned the whole thing out.

    • JustSayin’

      It implies intent it does not prove intent. If you are going to try and claim some legal knowledfe at least get the basics right.

      • pleasebereasonable

        Where was he claiming legal knowledge?

      • bkmn

        I’m not a lawyer and not in a court room so forgive me for being human at this moment in time when so many of us are crushed.

  • tcinsf

    I can accept that he was seriously mentally ill. Bigotry and harsh, fundamentalist religion often provide comfort for such folk.

  • VodkaAndPolitics

    I have been saying all day, I want them to publish his browser history.

    • canoebum

      Crack the phone, too.

  • Falconlights

    I suspect he wanted to case the joint. And he came to Pulse a number of times to make sure he knew the layout well. He may also have been a closet case, but I think scoping Pulse out was his main motivation.

    • Skokieguy [Larry]

      Or he was curious at some level, but tough-guy cop-wannabe is only their to stake out the place is a very manly way. I’m going to give these fags the lesson they deserve because I’m so straight and manly.

  • Randy503

    Everyone is jumping in saying he was closeted, or casing the joint or whatever. We won’t ever really know.

    What we DO know is that his father claimed he freaked out seeing two men kiss. But if he had attended the club several times, he would have seen that and much more. So either the dad is lying, misconstrued the situation, the killer merely “acted” in front of his dad, or he wasn’t really freaked out, but the original story is looking rather suspicious.

    • Edmund Allin

      Isn’t it one typical reaction of someone deeply closeted to say, ewww, gross to deflect attention? And if the father’s a homophobe – which seems to be the case – I’d embellish that a little.

    • Naughty Boy

      The FBI is doing forensics. We will know – just like when we found out that Osama bin Laden loved porn and had a collection of arousal pills.

      • Dreaming Vertebrate

        Well, his goats would put up quite a fuss without the pills.

    • Dreaming Vertebrate

      Scoping out the place so he could maximize the carnage. That’s the most likely theory.

      • Edmund Allin

        And drinking to the point of belligerence? I thought he was a good Muslim?!

        • Friday

          Frankly, they’re allowed to do that sort of thing if they *are* spying on a jihad,’ apparently, but it’s not like anyone thinks he was a virtuous guy or something, by any terms. Don’t doubt that scoping the place out happened, if that was the same guy, he was in security and would know how.

          • JustSayin’

            You do not “spy” on ” a Jihad “, which by the way is a verb not a noun.

            The only thing a strictly religous muslim is allowed to do that sounds “ungodly” is to lie about being a muslim if they believe their life is in danger.

            That said, when mus!ims leave the Arab world to vacation, play, or shop in Europe, the clothes come off and the alcohol flows. It is why the village Imams detest the wealthy muslims.

          • Friday

            My understanding though is these groups like ISIL have some rules and permissions of their *own* whether or not a different priest likes them.

          • canoebum

            And if you have a private jet, as many of the most traveled do, you can stash a lot of single-malt scotch and porn on board. A few well-placed bribes on arriving home and your forbidden goodies are whisked away to your villa with no one the wiser.

        • Reality.Bites

          No one credible has said that.

          • KCMC

            wife described him as devout.

        • KCMC

          weren’t 911 pilots traced to drinking and in strip clubs?

          • TuuxKabin

            Porno viewing, IIRC, maybe strip clubs. Thee was some evidence pointing to that.

    • Skokieguy [Larry]

      We may know after the FBI completes their investigation into his digital footprint. Or we may never know.

      Of course he has seen men kiss before. But his hatred of gays would have begun as a child at his father’s knee. Of course he has to continue to express his disgust with his father. No homo and all.

    • Platos_Redhaired_Stepchild

      He patronized a gay bar for three years. I think it’s safe to assume this guy was a self-hating gay man and his dad is lying his face off.

  • NZArtist

    Repeat after me 100 times: If you have an imaginary friend you’re crazy as a balloon.

    • Chucktech

      If your imaginary friend is an invisible rabbit, you’re probably harmless. If your imaginary friend is god, you are, at best, a goddam fool. At worst, seriously fucked up and likely to be a danger to yourself or others around you.

      • MBear

        a rabbit? he’s got teeth…he can leap…LOOK AT THE BONES!

        • RJ Tremor

          Psh, can do much better than rabbits. (Note, this page’s discussion involves a shared bath. The pages after are quite tasty. *Tease* And yes, this is a lighten-the-mood post, plus Tom is the kinda fella I still want for my own.)

          https://twitter.com/kumagayasin/status/738670129148350468

          • MBear

            not a Python fan, eh?

      • kanehau

        I once got the Bible Thumpers at my door. I answered and said “Are you here to talk about your invisible friend”? They said “Yes!”

        I said “I’d like to introduce you to my friend Harvey. He’s a 6 foot 3 and a half inch tall invisible rabbit”.

        They just looked at me like I was fucking crazy.

        • David Milley

          Maybe they thought you were crazy because _they_ could see him … (grin)

          • kanehau

            Hmmmm… never considered that…. ummmmm… don’t think so 😉

      • JNK

        MLK jr. seemed to be very high functioning with his particular imaginary friend. It never led him to want to kill anybody.

        • Chucktech

          God, like booze, can be better managed by some people.

    • kanehau

      Unless you’re 10 or younger.

  • Smartypants

    If he was drunk and belligerent then he couldn’t have been a particularly strict Muslim, since alcohol is strictly forbidden. That seems to lend credence to the argument his primary motivation was homophobia.

    • JNK

      And from whence came his homophobia? Out of the ether?

  • Octavio

    I vote for bi polar. Having known many and loved a few, his unbridled murderous rage makes sense.

    • Silver Badger

      Maybe, but you have to add a strong dose of self hatred to the mix.

    • Platos_Redhaired_Stepchild

      Insanity, violent streak, self-loathing and easy access to guns.

  • Edmund Allin

    Meanwhile, Trump seems to have gone completely off the rails.

    ““In San Bernardino, people knew what was going on, they knew exactly, but they used the excuse of racial profiling for not reporting it… We need to make sure every single person involved in this plan, including anyone who knew something, but didn’t tell us, is brought to justice. These people need to have consequences, big consequences.”

    So, essentially, you *have* to start reporting any “unusual” activity on the part of your neighbours to the police, or you will be charged with a crime.

    ?!?!

    • JustSayin’

      If that becomes the law I will be buying the penthouse next to trump and speed dialing the cops

      • Xuuths

        You might catch him raping his current wife, like he did his first wife. At least, according to her book.

  • TuuxKabin

    I hope the press goes over to his father’s house and capture his expression when he learns this. Doesn’t matter if he was closeted or casing the place. The world needs to see his father receive this information.

    • Platos_Redhaired_Stepchild

      You think the father didn’t know? Oh, my sweet summer child….

      • TuuxKabin

        Ah, dear Old Nan, I’m winter’s child.

        Fear is for the winter, my little lord, when the snows fall a hundred feet Deep and the ice wind comes howling out of the north.

        Thank you for that!

  • andrew

    If, according to some Pulse regulars, Mateen visited Pulse many times and even got loud and drunk there, was he a closeted self hating homosexual tortured by his religious beliefs that he was a sinner and so he followed this destructive path? It seems less likely that he would travel so far so many times just to scope out the club for future terrorist actions.

    • Friday

      Assuming they’re actually talking about the same guy, the order of events and timing counts there, before leaping to conclusions. How much of it happened before he was ‘radicalized’ would be one question. A lot of that could have been trying to work up the nerve/pick fights, etc etc before he actually planned this shooting.

      • Silver Badger

        Or trying to work up the nerve to pick up someone.

      • andrew

        No doubt it will take time to uncover all the ugly truth about this murderer Mateen. I personally hope that there is not a shred of evidence to indicate that Mateen was a closeted homosexual, but the truth needs to be known.

    • Skokieguy [Larry]

      And if true, it still means that he is a religious terrorist. Religion gave him the self loathing (that along with mental illness, possible drug use, and easy access to deadly weapons) that led to this tragedy.

  • Guess

    #QuelleSurprise

  • RLK2

    Internal homophobia due to a horrible father and religion. Repeated over and over again….

    • Silver Badger

      With out even rinsing once!

      • Lumpy Gaga

        “And they’ll kill two friends, and so on, and so on…”

    • ultragreen

      There is something more broad than parents and religion: an authoritarian culture of hatred and intolerance of other people who are different. Even if he wasn’t a devout Muslim, he was still influenced by the underlying culture in which his father and fundamentalist Islam are embedded. The culture of the hard right in America is very similar. It’s kind of scary when you think about it.

  • Edmund Allin

    Reading the FBI’s statements I’m becoming even more confused.

    “Mateen reportedly called 911 around 2:30 a.m. on Sunday, after he was already in Pulse and had begun shooting. He hung up, and then called back and spoke to a dispatcher, according to Comey. When Mateen hung up again, the dispatcher called back and they spoke for a second time.

    During those calls, Comey said, Mateen pledged loyalty to the leader of the Islamic State group, also known as ISIS. The gunman also expressed solidarity with attackers unrelated to ISIS: Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who carried out an attack on the Boston Marathon in 2013, and Moner Mohammad Abusalha, an American suicide bomber who once attended the same mosque as Mateen and carried out an attack on behalf of an al Qaeda-affiliated group.

    Mateen first came under investigation from the FBI in 2013, after his coworkers were alarmed by his statements on terrorism, which Comey described as “inflammatory and contradictory.” Mateen told coworkers he had family connections to al Qaeda; that he was a member of Hezbollah, an enemy of ISIS; and that he had mutual acquaintances with the Tsarnaev brothers, Comey said.”

    .
    .
    .

    A related point of interest: how exactly does one become radicalised by the Internet? I mean, if I enter a Christian site that suggests gays should be stoned or something, do I suddenly start to feel that this is the right thing to do?

    • Friday

      Trump and the rest of the GOP sure will have some crow to eat if it turns out that as an “Islamic terrorist” he was only ever a wannabe.

    • AJ Drew

      I agree; the information coming out is making any potential idea of a motive even more murky. Now, supposedly, the wife has told FBI that she knew he was casing Pulse *as well as* Disney World. What to make of that? Either there’s a lot more to learn, or it really might boil down to a guy who was “just” mentally ill…

      http://www.people.com/article/omar-mateen-disney-world-scouted-attacks

      • ultragreen

        Oh, he DEFINITELY had some mental health related issues going on inside his head.

  • Guess

    His immediate reaction to men kissing in Miami, while Daddy and Sonny were in the vicinity, was Omar’s uncomfortable Captain Renault moment.

    “I’m SHOCKED, SHOCKED to find that gambling is going on in here!”

  • Cuberly

    Per his former co-workers, his ex-wife, even his father….he was prone to hateful speech, beat his ex-wife, even scared his former co-workers to the point where they called the FBI on him. Former co-workers even said he talked about killing people. WTF!?!

    I don’t give a flying fuck if he’s closeted or whatever, I’m not going there. He was fucking insane, he had serious self-control issues. And he easily purchased a gun a few weeks ago. Even after the FBI investigations.

    He was a time-bomb waiting to go off. And he did. Fuck him.

    • Silver Badger

      With his father’s radical muslim cock.

  • Silver Badger

    His picture above seems to depict a young gay man. I believe those responsible for his upbringing and his religion created a monster. As they are probably monsters themselves, this is not a surprise.

    • Did your Gaydar indicate a positive reading?

      • Lumpy Gaga

        He took more mirror-selfies than any fag I’ve ever met.

      • Silver Badger

        No. But then no one under 50 reads positive to me.

  • NO MORE GOP!

    Can you say “closet case with pathological self-loathing redirected outwards”? Sure. I knew ya could. This is beginning to look more like a case of a nutcase being spurned and/or resentful at not being able to be who he most wanted to be.

    • MBear

      too many syllables for the ignorants in murrikkka.
      it will become “f*g on f*g violence”

      • Friday

        I think whatever the facts are, the usual haters will say *all the hate things* ….just a question of which the corporate media swallows for ‘debate.’

    • Classic Log Cabin Repuglycan

  • rextrek1

    well there you have it folks…in a Friggin nutshell………..Perfect case of Self Loathing / due to religion / rightwing media etc etc……getting this visual of him – standing there by himself – leaning against the wall…..seathing………..fuckin sad …………

  • Ninja0980

    It could be religious extremism but it could also be the case of a man who hated who he was so much, he lashed out at others.
    Whatever the cause, just another case of how religion is poison.

  • Itsatarp

    Evidence of trips to Orlando would be easy to find. He would have had to take the turnpike, go thru toll plazas and maybe even used a Sun Pass (EZ Pass) in his name.
    That being said, Orlando is a long drive from Ft Pierce. If he really wanted to go to a gay bar there are plenty closer in West Palm and Ft Laud.

    • robirob

      Like any other closet case he may have wanted to go to a place where he wouldn’t be recognized or bump into colleagues, family members, etc.

      • Itsatarp

        I guess that could be it. It’s so hard for me to think like a cloested gay man that kind of “logic” never enters my head. Instead I think, “no bar is worth spending five hours driving to and back.”

    • andrew

      Who knows? Maybe he wanted to go to a gay bar far away from where he might be known. Time will probably tell.

  • j.martindale

    So what? So what if he was gay? So what if he harbored animosity against other gays for personal reasons? The fact is and will ALWAYS be that if religion did not encourage the thought that LGBT people deserved the worst, NONE of this would have happened. The detonator was religion. The man was the product of a father who stood by and heard him decry gay men actually kissing one another…and after the bastard murdered 50 people his response was, “You should have let God kill them.” This guy may have been a broken, screwed up human being. But I can tell you who is responsible for screwing him up: Religion and family.

    • TestSubject51

      I agree, but anti LGBT lawmakers have blood on their hands as well.

  • TestSubject51
  • Lumpy Gaga

    “Does this explosive vest make me look fat?”

  • Jean-Marc in Canada

    Unfortunately, if true, we should all brace ourselves for the next wave of right wing BS, this time about how “he was a messed up queer who done shot the bar up because of a lover’s spat” or some such lie. Mark my words, I can see the hateful drivel now.

    • bob

      How will that justify banning muslims from entering the country ? The next question that should be asked is who is responsible for screwing with this guys head ? My guess is the father and religion !

  • Jeffrey

    Sadly, Bill is right on this one

    • GanymedeRenard

      Us: Conservatives and liberals, don’t say it doesn’t have anything to do with homophobia.

  • Lumpy Gaga

    “In the beginning he was a normal being that cared about family, loved
    to joke, loved to have fun, but then a few months after we were married I
    saw his instability. I saw that he was bipolar and he would get mad out
    of nowhere. That’s when I started worrying about my safety,” she said.

    He finally figured out she didn’t have a dick like his other girlfriends?

  • Lumpy Gaga

    So an armed moonlighting cop is standing at the front door.

    Is that a Florida thing?

    • chris10858

      I used to live in Orlando and yeah, that’s very common. You’ll see it at places like library branches, grocery stores, and even 7-11 stores after hours.

  • Ogre Magi

    I can’t stand muslims

  • chris10858

    Hanging out in gay bars AND getting drunk? Bad muslim.

  • Robincho

    Somebody had better start keeping an eye on Shoebatshits Sr. and Jr. 24/7. Stat…

  • David Walker

    This takes me totally by surprise. /s

  • Donnacjones4
    • andrew

      DISQUS: Get this shit off this site.

  • what a sad story,that’s what happens when you don’t let people live their lives in the way the want to,they just become violent and full of hatred.I just can’t get over the fact a lot of people at my age died because of him :/

  • 2karmanot

    A closeted jihadist?