Politico: Tomorrow Could Be “Final Stand” For Sanders

From a lengthy piece posted this morning by Politico:

Bernie Sanders’ campaign is desperately fighting to prove that Super Tuesday isn’t his final stand. The outlook is grim: He likely needs comfortable wins in at least five states to realistically keep pace in the delegate hunt.

Coming off a deflating loss in Nevada and a thorough pummeling in South Carolina, Sanders’ brain trust views March 1 as a swinging gate that could either reveal — or effectively close off — his path to the nomination. It’s a trying moment that his increasingly nervous top aides have been prepared to face for months, just not so soon.

Their best-case Super Tuesday scenario looks like this: Of the 11 states holding Democratic contests, Sanders wins Colorado, Minnesota, Massachusetts, and Oklahoma — four states where he’s invested in television advertising. Then he blows out Clinton in Vermont, and keeps it close in Virginia.

As long as Clinton’s margins of victory in Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Tennessee, and Texas – states with sizable African-American populations — aren’t too overwhelming, he could march onto a trio of friendlier contests the following weekend with a credible case to make.

His campaign could argue that Super Tuesday was a split decision, one that would still likely see him trailing Clinton in delegates, but not by an insurmountable margin, thanks to their proportional allocation.

  • another_steve

    I like Bernie. I respect his idealism. Idealism is a precious commodity in the world today.

    I hope he gets a Cabinet position in the Clinton Administration.

    • Gene

      I don’t, not being a fan of idealism. But I respect his INTEGRITY. That said, this is probably his last stand, but he will stay in because he wants as much a voice as possible at the convention. I just hope he does not hurt her in the process, but, time will tell.
      (and Max…Jo…PLAY NICE)
      😉

      • Jeffrey

        His fans have hurt her more than he has, hopefully they haven’t done irreparable damage to the democrats. We will need everything we have to defeat that mess on the right.

        • If online comments are any kind of indicator, many of his supporters are refusing to vote for her in the general election. I’ve even seen comments saying they’ll vote for Trump over Clinton. I hope this is just a tiny minority or the US is in trouble.

          • back that up with quotes, links and proof, bitch. “many” that word has meaning. show me “many.” right now or you’re just making shit up.

          • As I said, these are online comments. Hardly scientific but enough to be depressing. I think I read some of them in Slate and Politico.

          • “i think i read something somewhere on the interwebs” is not proof. if you’re going to make such a scurrilous accusation about ‘pouting naderesque bernie voters,’ taking their ball home, you better have a reason. you just admitted you don’t. other than your own interpretation of some shit you read somewhere that has no significant meaning.

            this is the logic that killed our hope for a progressive leader in this cycle. “i think someone said somewhere once something and hey it was on TV and Salon so it must be right. Bernie is a marxist, he’ll never win!”

            i’m sorry, but such sloppiness really annoys me and makes me a bitchy commenter. hopefully one whose name or link you can remember, next time.

          • Oh, please. This is a comments thread, not a dissertation. I read some comments and clearly stated that I hoped that it’s a small minority. Nowhere did I say “all Sanders’ supporters”. If you look beyond your rage you’d see I was being supportive. From what I’ve seen and read, I like Sanders, but this was a comment in response to another comment, about attitudes and people coming together to ensure there’s no President Trump. And I would say exactly the same thing if Sanders was the candidate and Hillary supporters were being sucks.

          • hiker_sf

            Being supportive by spreading lies or projecting what some dejected nutcase said to what many people will do is not being honest.

          • Get a grip, pal. You don’t know me. I made a casual comment about something I read. I hardly think what I said is going to derail the primaries. And that would be “dejected nutcases”, plural.

          • your comments are sloppy and unsupported. people who agree with you are insulting me, personally, for saying so.

            this is the difference b/w the HRC crowd and the Bernie crowd. i defy you to find anything in my, or many of my bernie supporter friends, saying the things you accuse us of. if you don’t think that is going to make me angry, you don’t know me.

            it would be sofa king nice if HRC people could focus on policy. really.

          • timncguy
          • hiker_sf

            OMG, one dejected nutcase wrote that. Call the national guard because it means something.

          • timncguy

            1st, there was more than one of them. 2nd, go to ANY OTHER STORY about the dem primary on that web site and you will see the same thing voice by multiple people

          • but you just can’t direct like to any of them, can you. ‘many’ is the standard. live up to it.

          • timncguy

            you have a computer and i’m not your personal asst. I gave you the link you asked for. did you bother to go read the vitriol there? give it up, you are wrong, stop digging the hole it will only get deeper. I’m not your enemy. Stop acting like I am. I like both candidates and have always said I will vote for whichever is the eventual nominee.

          • Silver_Witch

            We can however simply scroll up and read the vitriolic comments about Bernie supports right here on this thread.

          • Do you understand what the word “vitriolic” actually means? And you are the one elsewhere who admitted they’re not voting for Hillary (which is a vote for Trump).

          • Silver_Witch

            Thanks Freshacconci…I think I have occasionally said I would not vote for HRC…I mean it as when I am really really pissed….however I would never NOT vote and I have always voted Dem (even when I have regretted it – like having vote for President Clinton and then learning he was a liar and a tramp).

          • timncguy

            there are none so blind as those who will not see…..

          • yes, shut up cut his/her mike is an excellent come back. (that’s a political insider joke if you don’t know it) trying to be fun here, even after the vitriol. 😉

          • TimCA

            “many” is a subjective term

          • I’m not “HRC people” as I can’t vote in the election. It was a comment. Nothing more. I didn’t accuse you (I don’t know you) or your friends (who I don’t know) of anything. Again, if you read my comment with a little less anger, you’d see that I said I read some comments that I’d hoped were in the minority. Yikes.

          • Silver_Witch

            Two right wing publications and you think those posters are dems hahahahahah

          • No, they’re about as blandly centrist as it gets.

          • Silver_Witch

            Slate centrist perhaps – but Politico – centrist – I must be crazy progressive then. Take care Frehacconci.

          • hiker_sf

            They can’t. The choose to demonize Sanders supporters because they can’t demonize Sanders.

          • gaylib

            You are such a fucking narcissistic asshole. Nobody owes you squat. Look it up yourself.

          • Treg.Brown

            “back that up with quotes, links and proof, bitch.” – a long time commenter

            Wow.

            I think I’m done with JMG. Good luck to you all.

          • another_steve

            Don’t go, Treg. She’s cool. She speaks her mind, bluntly.

            “Bitch” is acceptable terminology on a queer blog.

          • Good Shot Green

            Yeah, I was taken aback by the “bitch.”

          • TimCA

            “I think I’m done with JMG”

            I hope you’ll reconsider. 🙂

          • Man_in_the_mists

            Bitch, you were never here in the first place.

          • danolgb

            http://www.joemygod.com/

            There have been many on many posts throughout this very site.

          • timncguy

            go to any comment section at “Raw Story”

          • TimCA

            “back that up with quotes, links and proof, bitch. “many” that word has meaning. show me “many.” right now or you’re just making shit up.”

            “many” is a subjective term.

          • Jeffrey

            Then they were not really Bernie fans to begin with, if they think Trump or any other republican would be a sensible alternative. They are childish. Its time to for everyone to man the fuck up and put on their big boy pants and vote democrat or help elect the republican who will make us all miserable for four years. Don’t like Hillary? So what. Show me all the ways in which Trump is better. Ive heard this too, and Ive asked this question and I have yet to hear a good excuse other than “Well at least he isn’t establishment.” Because Bernie fans have had the word “establishment” burned into their soft little heads for so long that they now think tRump is acceptable? You know who else isn’t establishment, Charles Manson, but I don’t want him for president either.

          • I didn’t want to engage with them, but if I had, that’s pretty much what I’d say. They can’t possibly be actually listening to Sanders if their second choice is Trump. It’s pure hatred for Hillary, not support for Sanders.

          • fresh, i apologize. it’s clear you don’t understand how the american media really works, and you should thank your lucky stars that you don’t.

            only in the imaginations of the american media lapdogs is there a “huge group of sanders supports who will vote for trump if he doesn’t win the dem nom.” that is a total myth.

            but it is paraded by our “liberal” leading voices in the media, as a “serious concern.” these are people who are paid millions to read type from a screen, but who know nothing about Sanders or his supporters. why should they? they never interact with the poor.

            it’s hard for outsiders to perceive correctly just how fucked our media is. i’m sorry i came down on you hard. my bad. you’re not one of them.

          • No, that’s ok. Maybe us non-Americans should preface our comments with a disclaimer when we comment on your elections: “Means well, may not fully understand what the hell’s going on.” If I was American I would totally support Sanders or Clinton in the general election. Not sure how I’d go in primaries because that’s a foreign concept to me. My initial comment came out of sadness, to see people making comments like “I’ll vote for Trump if Hillary is the Democrat candidate” is depressing. I know enough about US politics to understand that whoever is the next president will change the make-up of the Supreme Court and that will have an impact for at least a generation. Anyone on the Republican side making those choices is frightening.

          • hiker_sf

            There is one “way” that Trump will be better: He would be honest about favoring industries that support him.

          • wc1e

            I won’t vote for Trump but I can’t in good conscience vote for Sec Clinton.

          • Ray Taylor

            You then are voting for tRump.

          • So, you’re voting for Trump by not voting?

        • hiker_sf

          It’s good to invent these stories now. Clinton is terrible on the campaign and if she should lose, she will need someone to blame. Sanders supporters attack Clinton on policy and ethics. Clinton supporters attack Sanders supporters. Shame on you all.

          • Jeffrey

            No one is inventing anything. There have been articles since the beginning which I have posted here numerous times, including one from the New York Times about American Pathways conservative PAC that was funding a lot of Bernie Bros to create division and Hillary hatred. Its a fact, sorry if you don’t like facts, but that doesnt change it. If you fell for it then its not too late to pull your head out of your ass and stop pretending like a socialist is going to be president.

          • hiker_sf

            Those excuses will come in handy. Thanks for the link to that article.

          • Jeffrey

            Playing ignorant or just being ignorant isn’t particularly helpful. Here is one of the articles that literally anyone could google except you. This one is from May last year, there have been others since http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/17/us/politics/the-right-aims-at-democrats-on-social-media-to-hit-clinton.html?_r=0

          • No. They want PROOF.

          • Silver_Witch

            And these are all Bernie’s fault. Seriously? Wow just wow.

          • hdtex

            BernieBots are the most disgusting followers, on a par with Trump’s.

        • Bill_Perdue

        • Ninja0980

          Indeed, statements by his fans stating they would rather let the country crash and burn under a Republican then vote for Clinton is NOT a way to endear yourself.

      • danolgb

        Actually, the more I read about him, the more I got to know him, the less I liked him. His campaign said they wouldn’t be overtly negative, but did say they would go negative in social media. I think we saw that. Hell, I think we see it. At the very least, he knew he had scores of nasty internet commenters on his side. He quietly whispers, “No. Stop” a la Gene Wilder in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, but knew they wouldn’t stop. That’s not integrity.

      • Curieux Bleu

        The fact is that Americans are so brainwashed to the far far right of the spectrum, that they don’t realise that the things Bernie is talking about ARE achievable, and already exist in many successful countries. Canada has single payer health care and it works a lot better for people here than the US “for big profit” model. That said, Britain has the BEST health care in the world … the most effective, efficient and cost effective. Covering everyone, even visitors to UK!

        Germany and Scandinavia do have education without tuition fees, for those who qualify and maintain the expected standard. It is not like there are no strings attached. But these are nations that believe in EDUCATION. A highly educated populace is the key to societal success.
        America does not believe in education, beyond the top 1 or 2% — it is held better that the rest are dumbed down and left ignorant and socially brutalised. Many however get a skill set useful to the oligarchy’s agenda, but do not get a human or societal vision from their “education”. The worst places of all are those like “Liberty U.” although it is for brainwashed scions of wealthy RWNJ folk.

        The difference is that they do NOT spend a huge percentage of revenue on a bloated unimaginably way-way-over-the-top military machine. And they do not allow almost all of the profits within GDP to flow into the pockets of the top 0.1 or .01% of the populace. These are highly successful and affluent societies, Gene!

        And all those reforms are do-able in the US if the political will were there and the citizens demanded it in the millions, but yeah, the American broad unwashed and brain-conditioned public are as if in a trance of docility and depressed inertia …. so probably things will NOT change for the better.

        In America it is a race to the bottom for most citizens and a rocket ship to plutocratic oligarchy for the tiny billionaire class.

        As for “democracy” in the USA, it is mostly sham, and close to utterly dead. A bit like the narrative of “a life being lived” in THE MATRIX just an overlay that papered over the grim reality. The “richest” nation on the planet is indeed a pretty grim and dystopian vortex. The misery index in America “the great” is pretty darn high.

        • Bill_Perdue

          He’re the far, far right. The racist right. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALXulk0T8cg

          • hdtex

            BEETLE JUICE, BEETLE JUICE, BEETLE JUICE!!!!!

          • Bill_Perdue

            mindless dunce

        • Gene

          the Scandinavians and British and Canadians are only able to afford all that because they have hidden under our defense umbrella (the Brits less so than the rest, but that will be changing). and all the free stuff…its the aberration. not the norm. the nations you listed will be following our pattern in time. we are tired of paying for all the military, we wont be cutting, and its time for them to pay their fair share. thus, more privatizing of industry (including health care) less wasted spending on the “arts” (the Dutch have been leading the way there, with excellent results), etc.
          it is what it is

    • Nichole

      I support Sanders and I supported his campaign for no reason other than the fact that Hillary NEEDS a good challenge up until the general. I don’t think many people expected him to win, but I always felt that wasn’t the point to begin with.

      If he loses, the Democratic party is still being left better off due to his presence in the race.

      • another_steve

        I think he’s raised crucial issues that need to be discussed. For that I applaud him. But as so many Democrats are saying, it’s crucial that Democrats unite around the most electable Democrat in November. And Hillary is that person.

        She’s far from perfect — but of the two, far more electable.

        • OZ_in_TX

          And you can bet that, if she gets the nomination, all the ‘issues that need to be discussed’ will be drowned in a sea of ‘PARTY UNITY!’ and ‘WE CAN’T LET THE REPUBLICANS DIVIDE US!!!’ And all those ‘issues that need to be discussed’ will be conveniently left behind.

          • Ninja0980

            They’ll get left behind even more if a Republican wins.

    • DonMN763

      Bernie would be the perfect Secretary of Labor.

    • Todd20036

      Even if Super Tuesday is Bernie’s Waterloo, he’s influenced the campaign process and that is not a small accomplishment.

      Frankly, I think he does deserve a place in a Clinton administration, and I would not say it is impossible for a Clinton/Sanders ticket.

      • hiker_sf

        My guess is that his ethics will prevent him from joining the Hillary “Wall Street” Clinton administration.

        • timncguy

          you will turn out to be wrong. he will give Clinton his full-throated support if she is the nominee. And, he will ask his supporters to support her as well.

          • Exactly. If he IS a man of his word, he will support Hillary.

          • hiker_sf

            Joining the Clinton administration supporting her against the Republicans in the November election.

          • timncguy

            Oh, sorry, I misread your comment. Actually, I wouldn’t want him to give up his senate seat to be in the administration anyway. I think BOTH Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are much more valuable in the senate than they would ever be in anyone’s administration.

          • Silver_Witch

            That does not mean he would accept a cabinet position. He is a gentleman for sure and if he looses he will do what he has promised. That however does not mean those who support him will do the same. Just see how we are treated by HRC supporters and see if we would want to come to that party.

          • timncguy

            it’s a two-way street. Sanders supporters treat Clinton supporter poorly as well.
            http://www.rawstory.com/2016/02/watch-ed-schultz-crushes-longtime-clinton-crusader-david-brock/comments/#comment-2542750170

          • Silver_Witch

            I agree it is totally a two-way street…didn’t mean to imply there are not asses on both sides of the fence.

    • TimCA

      “I hope he gets a Cabinet position in the Clinton Administration.”

      I dunno. I would think he would have a stronger role to play and certainly be at much more at liberty to speak out on the issues he’s concerned about if he continued on as an elected Senator. Being a member of the Cabinet generally comes with having to curb one’s public candor about policy issues that may be at odds with the President’s.

  • hdtex

    #feelthefizzle

    • Gene

      agreed…but, that burn meant a lot to people. Remember, the ONLY thing worse than a sore loser is a smug winner…and the big game is in NOV. VOTE D, whomever the D may be.

      • OZ_in_TX

        “… the ONLY thing worse than a sore loser is a smug winner…” The irony of *you* saying this is absolutely staggering.

  • GayOldLady

    I played sports for many years and I learned long ago, “it ain’t over till the fat lady sings”.

    • GayOldLady

      Plus, I’m no fan of premature prognostications.

      • Gene

        wise old gay lady. 🙂
        (that said, you can look at the program and know when broomhilda, or bugs, is about to do their aria…the sound you hear is her clearing her throat before tomorrow)

        • Gene

          PS…BUGS did it better….you know…spear and magic helmet and all.

        • GayOldLady

          You know I’m a Hillary fan, but without big win margins for Hillary this could go on for awhile. Proportional awarding of delegates could make for a long, long run for both candidates. I’d prefer that not happen, but I won’t take anything for granted.

          • Gene

            agreed! I should mention that I did a good bit of volunteering in SC and was NOT surprised by the vote there. really, not at all. I have been working HARD here in GA, helped a weee pit in the VA panhandle, and have talked with friends from the tri cities to Memphis in TN. she is gonna romp.
            If she just ties in MA, and wins OK. its pretty much a last stand with the numbers I am expecting in the south.
            we will know tomorrow

          • GayOldLady

            It’s all about turnout, turnout, turnout for Hillary to get the win margins up.

            RCP posted a new National Poll this morning. It looks good for Hill

            2016 Democratic Presidential Nomination
            CNN/ORC
            Clinton 55, Sanders 38
            Clinton +17

          • Treant

            If you made me guess? She loses OK somewhat, and wins MA somewhat.

          • Treant

            This will go on for a while! In a proportionate delegate situation, resolving the winner at 100% certainty before June is generally unlikely. The Republicans, with a mixed proportionate/winner take all situation, will nail this down a little earlier (on average).

            Current projections say Clinton may do it in May (most unusual), but that’s not certain. California’s primary generally shoves the winner over the finish line.

            A complete (unlikely) collapse of the Sanders campaign, including running out of money, will tie the bow for Clinton early. Right now, Sanders is running short on cash and spending far more than Clinton.

    • Just Sayin’

      Honey, it is ovah…

      • GayOldLady

        Well I hope it is because I’m a Hillary supporter, but I’m also an old woman who knows that you can’t take anything for granted. If this is over Wednesday, then I’ll give a sigh of relief. Until then it is book half read.

        • It’s Ovah

          The Bernie Firewall is not going to hold tomorrow…

  • pickypecker

    Like so many others here at JMG….I really like Bernie. He has ideas and the integrity to bring change to the country. And dammit, we NEED change. As much as I wish his campaign wasn’t headed in this direction, all things must come to an end eventually. There is nothing to gain from wishing him anything other than continued success and to retain the fighting spirit for which he is admired as he moves forward. I hope he will support…and yes stump for….Clinton. Our side needs a big win this fall more than ever.

    • canoebum

      He has changed the conversation for the better, and made actual policy choices a campaign issue. He deserves a lot of credit for that. No matter, I will be supporting the Democratic nominee whoever it made be.

      • pablo

        As soon as he’s eliminated you’ll see a rightward shift in HIllary.

        • GayOldLady

          GE candidates always tack back to the middle. That’s been happening in U.S. politics since the beginning of the 20th century.

          • hiker_sf

            Hillary “Death Penalty” Clinton will have to go left to be back in the middle.

          • pablo

            Hillary “Death Penalty”, “Iraq War”, “Patriot Act” Clinton.

            Fixed that for you. But she’s the true progressive candidate because reasons that have nothing to do with her being a woman.

          • Bernie voted for the war in Afghanistan, against closing Gitmo, for the 1994 crime bill, and tried to dump Vermont’s toxic waste in a small town in Texas. We can do this all day. Nobody is perfect.

          • pablo

            We had a reason to go into Afghanistan other than to avenge W’s daddy.

          • having lived in TX, where they regularly vote for politicians who bring in waste from other states, i hardly see how that last critique is a bad thing.

          • Lawerence Collins

            Out of her own mouth she called herself a Moderate. Only changing it to progressive when Sanders started catching her. She’s truly a Neo-Liberalist. Bernie’s a true leader. Voting against Doma, three strikes law, Iraq war. He’s made many more tough choices and not come to be for or against something. Once everyone else is. Do your civic duty and educate yourself.

          • dwieboldt

            Educate myself that BS has no real executive experience or foreign policy chops?

          • timncguy

            see, this is why people get misinformation about Clinton. Clinton’s position on the death penalty, which she state CLEARLY, is that she supports the death penalty only at the federal level and even then only for the most heinous of crimes such as the Oklahoma City bomber and the Boston Marathon bombing. But, you just throw out an attack on her that totally misrepresents what she has said.

          • Silver_Witch

            That is supporting the death penalty. Her position is clear death penalty, good; putting child “super predators” in prison for life, good; bringing us all to “heel”, super duper good.

          • Bill_Perdue

            She had no qualms about the deaths of half a million Iraqi babies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbIX1CP9qr4

            She rabidly enabled and supported GW Bush’s murder of another half million or so Iraqis of all ages. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkS9y5t0tR0

          • oikos

            “She rabidly enabled and supported GW Bush’s murder of another half million or so Iraqis of all ages’

            So did you by not voting. Bill Perdue: War criminal.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Democrats are responsible for the murder of millions of Iraqis and you are your Republican brothers and sisters. It you want to see a war criminal, get a mirror, piglet.

            Socialists, leftists and people with a sense of decency do vote, but you don’t like it because we vote against all the things you support.

            We vote against wars of aggression against Arab and muslim peoples designed by the Clintons, the Bushes and Obama to steal oil and land. You vote for war if you vote for any Democrat or any Republican.

            We vote against the racist mass murder of Arabs and muslims and the Obama’s racist murders of Arab American citizens. You vote for murder if you vote for any Democrat or any Republican.

            We vote against fracking and offshore drilling. You vote for the destruction of the environment if you vote for any Democrat or any Republican.

            We vote against attacks on unions like the UAW and the Chicago Teachers Unions and against attacks on the standard of lining of working people by the Clintons, the Bushes and Obama. You vote for union busting and austerity if you vote for any Democrat or any Republican.

            We vote to preserve the Bill of Rights, you vote for FISA, NDAA, the Paytriot Act, NSA spying and the racist murders of US citizens if you vote for any Democrat or any Republican.

            We vote against border racism and the deportation of millions of immigrant workers. You vote for that totally racist and inhumane policy if you vote for any Democrat or any Republican.

          • hdtex

            BEETLE JUICE, BEETLE JUICE, BEETLE JUICE!!!!

          • Bill_Perdue

            Mindless dummy.

          • dwieboldt

            Funny, coming from an idiot like you…

          • Bill_Perdue

            Dunce.

          • Michael Abbett

            Sadly, it never works. It took Killfile for me.

          • dwieboldt

            Someone is unhinged…

          • Bill_Perdue

            Dunce

          • dwieboldt

            Excuse me, but you are the epitome of the low information voter.

          • hdtex

            BEETLE JUICE, BEETLE JUICE, BEETLE JUICE!!!

          • Bill_Perdue

            How many times did your parents drop you on yuor head? Is it true that they’re brother and sister?

          • dwieboldt

            You’re parents sound like real winners… Neanderthals?

          • Bill_Perdue

            ”… In her support for the 1994 crime bill… she [Hillary] used racially coded rhetoric to cast black children as animals. “They are not just gangs of kids anymore,” she said. “They are often the kinds of kids that are called ‘super-predators.’ No conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first we have to bring them to heel.”http://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/ MICHELLE ALEXANDER Michelle Alexander is a legal scholar, human rights advocate, and author of The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness (The New Press).

            HRH HRC is a racist and that’s why you admire her.

          • hiker_sf

            I don’t have a Clinton decoder ring, so I don’t see it the way you do:

            “. . .who asked Clinton whether she still stood by an earlier statement in which she “reluctantly” endorsed capital punishment.

            “Yes, I do. And — you know, what I hope the Supreme Court will do is make it absolutely clear that any state that continues capital punishment either must meet the highest standards of evidentiary proof of effective assistance of counsel or they cannot continue it because that, to me, is the real dividing line.

            “I have much more confidence in the federal system, and I do reserve it for particularly heinous crimes in the federal system, like terrorism. I have strong feelings about that. I thought it was appropriate after a very thorough trial that Timothy McVeigh received the death penalty for blowing up the Federal Building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people, including 19 children in a day-care center.

            “I do for very limited, particularly heinous crimes believe it is an appropriate punishment, but I deeply disagree with the way that too many states are still implementing it. If it were possible to separate the federal from the state system by the Supreme Court, that would, I think, be an appropriate outcome.”

            I don’t see where she want to eliminate death penalty at the state leve.

            The above quote is from a LA Times article:

            http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-clinton-sanders-presidential-debate-death-penalty-20160205-story.html

          • dwieboldt

            More Republican trolls…

          • dwieboldt

            Yeah Right. Thank you hiker_sf rethuglican troll.

          • hiker_sf

            Typical Clinton supporter: Must malign anyone who doesn’t share his opinion.

          • MickinDetroit

            sure, but so many here are talking about how Bernie’s campaign was at least worth something as pulled her to the left… he did for a few months, she’ll be right back to where she started on wednesday.

          • GayOldLady

            I disagree Mick! I’ve been a Hillary supporter for over 20 years and if you read the policy positions she put forward at the beginning of her campaign you’ll know that her policy positions have been consistent throughout the campaign. Bernie has pulled his conversation to the far left, but Hillary conversation has been and will continue to be left to center left. If Hillary wins the nomination she campaign as a Center Left candidate. Hillary and Bernie share some view and are close on other views. I expect Hillary will take her policy positions to the convention and work to make them part of the Party Platform. I expect Bernie to do the same.

          • Lawerence Collins

            No he hasn’t. He’s had the same positions for well over thirty years. He was fighting for equality for Blacks back in the sixties. For marriage equality and gay rights in the eighties. He’s a leader. Not a hold her finger to see which way the winds blowing Neo-Liberalist. This country is on the edge.

          • GayOldLady

            Lawrence, you really need to read my comment again. I didn’t say that Bernie has changed his positions.

          • Lawerence Collins

            I quote. He pulled his conversation to the left. Did you mean he pulled this conversation?

          • GayOldLady

            What I actually wrote was “Bernie has pulled his conversation to the far left”. I should have written “Bernie has pulled the conversation to the far left”.

          • Zollergasse

            She and Bill Clinton were the first presidential couple to fight for about gay rights. The fact that they were forced to compromised in an era that was way more gay-unfriendly does not take away from the fact that they were the first. I’m sick of people re-writing history and young people being too lazy to read up on the facts.

          • Lawerence Collins

            Due your civic duty. Please educate yourself. Bernie was fighting for gay rights back in the seventies and eighties. Civil rights as early back as the nineteen sixty three. He’s called the amendment King as he’s passed more than any one single person.
            He’s a true leader not a follower. He voted against Doma. The Clintons say it was passed as stop gap measure. He was there. He says nothing of the kind was going on.
            Bernie Sanders tells the truth. Hillary Clinton, in a recent interview all but admitted admitted she’s lied. I keep up on all news.

          • dwieboldt

            Then you are making up bullshit. Bernie Sanders talked. The Clintons were advocates. Clinton did not admit to lying. Are you by chance one of the many Republican trolls that pretend to be BS supporters to split up the Democratic Party (by the it is the Democratic Party that will love either Bernie Or Hillary)?

          • Zollergasse

            DOMA was passed both houses of Congress by large, veto-proof majorities. Bill Clinton had no choice but to sign it. He was facing a national re-election that year – a time when only 20% of the population believed in gay marriage. BTW – there are young people out there claiming Bill Clinton invented DOMA and Hillary vote for it in the Senate (when she was still First Lady). Part of the Republicans incentive for DOMA was to make Bill Clinton look bad. National politics is a very different game to representing Vermont. You don’t have to worry about pragmatism when virtually all your constituents agree with you.

          • dwieboldt

            If he was really a leader, he would have been leading, instead of a minority vote in congress… Hillary has a cv of increasing her experience in politics and governance. Bernie should have been doing that long before. He has limited executive experience (I’ll it was very positive). No foreign policy or military chops. I’ll support him totally if he is the nominee, he just doesn’t have the gravitas to run the country…

          • Treant

            This. Somehow I have no problem electing the tenth most liberal Senator to the White House and won’t consider that a win for the conservatives.

          • popebuck1

            People tend to forget that Hillary’s voting record in the Senate was more liberal than Obama’s.

          • Treant

            People tend to forget that Sanders is really only #2 over the entire course of a Senate career; Blumenthal is technically slightly more liberal.

          • Not difficult to do, when you consider that nearly half of his votes were “Present”.

          • cleos_mom

            Reality isn’t always the “narrative”. We’ve been hearing GOP talking points parroted here for awhile.

        • Htowndude

          Exactly

          • Todd20036

            Trump was left, too.

          • Bill_Perdue

            These are not leftists.

        • Lawerence Collins

          Of course you will. She called herself a moderate. Only calling herself a progressive when Bernie was rising quickly on her. I don’t want him to give up. People have been dropping Clinton and endorsing Sanders.

          • TimCA

            A moderate but in what context though? This is important. Within the Democratic Party she is certainly not on the far left end. Within the context of the American electorate as a whole, she is certainly left of center.

          • dwieboldt

            Are you insane? The “Sanders Miracle” is a dream. Hillary is cleaning up. Unless Sanders has a miracle tomorrow, he’s toast…

        • dwieboldt

          Actually, I disagree. Hillary has been very consistent over the course of a long political career. Maybe not in the vanguard, but never far behind… Plus, the general after the primaries everyone goes GOTV.

      • DesertSun59

        Sadly, he’s not changed the conversation one iota. Hillary is not capable of continuing his legacy. She has waaaaaay too many favors to call in for her bankster friends.

        • MickinDetroit

          what legacy is that exactly?

          • Healthcare.
            The end of DADT and DOMA.
            LGBT attacks are hate crimes.
            Sotomayor and Kagan.
            Net Neutrality.
            The Fair Pay Act.
            Pulling the country out of the recession.
            Saving Chrysler and GM.
            Carbon controls.
            Veto of Keystone XL pipeline.
            START Treaty.
            Iran nuclear deal.
            Cuba-US relations.
            Killed Bin Laden.

          • MickinDetroit

            i thought you meant bernie sander’s legacy… mis read your post.

          • No, sorry, I misread your post. I usually see the argument as “protecting Obama’s legacy.” and defaulted to that >_>;

          • But it’s a good reminder…

          • Healthcare – which he waffled on and caved to his corporate masters.
            DADT/DOMA – which he had to be dragged into by the short ‘n’ curlies, embarrassed into by being beaten to the punch by both his Sec. of Ed and his V.P.
            LGBT Hate Crimes – he signed it, but did nothing to get it passed.
            Sotomayor and Kagan – OK, I’ll give you that one, but don’t hold your breath around Kagan. She still has too many corporate leashes attached to her.
            The Fair Pay act – as a former federal contractor employee, let me tell you how much “benefit” I had from the watered down, full of holes you can drive a truck through Lily Ledbetter Fair Play and Safe Spaces act did me… not a fukkin thing. I was still fired for “attendance issues” while I was still at home recuperating from PCP.
            Recession? Bullshit. We are still in the weakest economic waters we’ve been in since the end of Bush The First – don’t be fooled by “employment data” – the vast majority of the “jobs” created aren’t worth having, and the only ones who’re seeing an increase in their “take-home pay” are the ones who were taking it all home already!
            Saving Chrysler and GM… You forgot Ford. The only one of the “Big Three” who paid back every dime, with interest. Those two still owe billions on their “bailout”
            Carbon controls… not really. Every deal he’s attempted ended up gutted by special interests and tossed in the trash by the Retardican controlled Senate.
            Keystone veto – only after Nebraska’s agricultural forces told him point-blank that it would NEVER be allowed to cross that state. They’d blow it up first, before they let it poison the Niobrara aquifer.
            START treaty… you do realize that this is just a continuation of the same treaty that we’ve had, off-and-on, with Russia since Gorbachev was still in power? This isn’t an Obama “achievement” any more than it was a Clinton, Bush I, or Shrub.
            Iran… we have yet to know the full details on that one, and another 20-30 years before we know their consequences. I’m not holding my breath, tho’ the fundamentalists losing 50% of their seats last weekend gives me hope.
            Cuba-US – we’ll see. One can hope this has substance, but so far it’s nothing but window-dressing.
            Killed Bin Laden… no, a specialized strike team did that. Obama was just lucky enough to be president when it happened.
            …but hey, at least you weren’t foolish enough to give him credit for the Supreme Court decision on marriage equality.

        • canoebum

          You can be a cynic if you wish, it’s your prerogative. But what are you going to do…vote Cruz or Trump? A write-in for Bernie is a vote for the GOP.

          • Doug105

            In the general.

        • 5moreminutes*imtired

          What legacy? He’s done nothing in the Senate.

      • dwieboldt

        Bravo! Quite so.

    • Jeffrey

      Agreed. He and Hillary never really had any tense moments between them and you can tell that they don’t have the animosity for each other that a lot of their supporters do. He has been very good at steering her left, which was what he was there for in the beginning. I don’t think for a moment that he ever thought he would be president. But he made for a good catfish to keep the conversation going and keep it liberal. Their campaign has been so smart and kind in comparison to the other mess.

      • Htowndude

        He couldn’t make her honest though, unfortunately. Still waiting on those transcripts

        • Htowndude

          *chuckle*

          • Doug Miller

            Why don’t you just support your candidate and extol his virtues instead of your petty memes of Senator Clinton…

          • Htowndude

            Are you waging your finger at the others who’ve done the same in favor of Clinton? No? Shut the fuck up then.

        • Jeffrey

          Get over it, thats done. Why don’t you go talk to Rubio or Cruz and get their transcripts for their speeches. Im sure they will be glad to help you.

          • Htowndude

            There are still plenty of states in the north. Also California has over 400 delegates. Sanders is still being funded. This is going all the way to the convention!

          • Jeffrey

            It may, but that doesnt mean he isn’t done.

          • JustDucky

            There are no winner-take-all states in the Democratic primary. It’s all proportional allocation.

            Also, although the polling in California isn’t sufficient to make a prediction from, the polling we do have shows Hillary leading in California.

            http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/primary-forecast/california-democratic/

          • OZ_in_TX

            Instead of that, why don’t we talk about how HIllary kept ‘reframing’ the terms? First it was ‘I will if Bernie will!’ So he did – all of his paid speeches.. all $2k donated to charity.

            Now she’s saying ‘I will if the Republicans will!’ If it *weren’t* HIllary Clinton you’d be one of the first to call this tactic what it is – deflection.

          • GayOldLady

            Why are you working so hard to beat down Hillary? Do you have an agenda other than Bernie support? It seems as though you do. And No Oz, that’s not what she said. She said she would if Bernie did and if all of the other candidates did. You don’t think that Hillary knew that Bernie hasn’t delivered many “paid” speeches? If you’re in public office you can’t accept money for speeches, she was well aware of that. If Hillary releases her speeches I think it should only happen if everyone who’s running releases all of their speeches. I agree with Hillary on the double standard issue, but what else is new!

          • Silver_Witch

            Because we are not being asked to vote for a republican. We are being asked to for for HRC. Typical!!

      • OZ_in_TX

        “He has been very good at steering her left…” I always find it amazing that Clinton supporters have twisted Hillary’s penchant for morphing and twisting her own ‘message’ to match Bernie’s as a thing to be proud of. And you can *bet* if she gets the nomination she’ll snap right back to center-right.

        • Silver_Witch

          Uovote 1,000 times!!

        • Jeffrey

          Well so much for trying to be diplomatic on my part. Bernie has not accomplished a single thing in his 30yrs in politics. As a senator you can’t name three laws that he passed that were his that were of any significance. And yet imbeciles line up behind him because they think that his wacky socialist approach is ever going to fly in this country. I actually see very little difference between the dimwitted Trump supporter and the Bernie supporters who fell for the bluster but have yet to ask details. Trump and Bernie are the same. Big on narrative and short on detail. Im a detail guy, I deal with numbers all day. I have a degree in economics from Brown. I do not deal with nebulous theories like Mexicans Building Walls or Free College and Healthcare that Wont Raise Taxes. If Berners want to continue congratulating themselves on what a great job while their man falls in front of them, thats their business, but it won’t be good for the country.

          • tell me about Sen. Clinton’s voted up accomplishments.

            my ears are honestly open.

          • Jeffrey

            When I lived in Arkansas growing up Hillary Clinton was first lady of the state. She did more for women’s causes and for the poor than anyone else there had ever done, including establishing the Centers for Women there that helped underprivileged women with healthcare. You obviously have a narrative about The Clintons that you have been fed by conservative PACs all these years and you believe in instead of researching, or maybe you just don’t know. I don’t personally care about you or who you vote for. Please, be my guest and vote for Trump. Im sure he has great plans for helping the working poor and for women and gays and lesbians. I hear he has some great plans for immigrants and muslims as well.

          • Ninja0980

            My big issue is this, Sanders supporters keep showing polls Bernie will beat all the Republicans.
            Here’s the thing, polls this far out mean squat and already I’ve seen videos of Bernie that can hurt him in a general election.
            I’m sure there is more and if his supporters don’t think they will all be used against him, they’re fooling themselves.
            The hate machine has yet to be turned on Bernie and I just don’t think he’ll be prepared for that.

          • Jeffrey

            I have been saying that a lot, myself. He’s an untried liberal from a liberal state. He certainly isnt prepared for what they have planned for him. They will destroy him over his tax plan.

          • Ninja0980

            Not to mention that creepy essay he wrote once upon a time and who knows what else?
            Anything and EVERYTHING Bernie has said or done will be found out and I just don’t see where he will be able to handle that.

          • Ninja0980

            I’ve said it too and got attacked.
            I guess what angers me more are the people who are willing to let Trump or another Republican ruin everything thinking it will prove a point and bring people flocking to their viewpoints.
            I have friends and family in KS, NC and WI who can prove otherwise.

          • hiker_sf

            Can you please stop with the childish nonsense? Every damn time you tell someone to vote for Trump because they don’t fucking worship Clinton they way you do, you make yourself look like an ass and further push away Sanders supporters – supporters that Clinton needs to win. Stop insulting people. I fucking hate Clinton and I will vote for her if she is the Democratic candidate in November, as will most Sanders supporters.

            Most Sanders supporters who don’t agree with you attack the candidate Clinton, not you. You Clinton supporters attack us Sanders supporters. Knock it off.

          • Jeffrey

            You are the childish one. You are willfully ignorant. You are purposefully stupid. That isn’t my fault. I really don’t care if someone votes for Trump. They are obviously as willfully ignorant as you are if they do. That isn’t my concern at all. Nobody cares who you hate. Nobody. Nobody cares who you are voting for. Nobody.

          • hiker_sf

            You’re cute but stupid and rude.

          • Jeffrey

            *blushes

          • Jeffrey
    • hiker_sf

      I think if the election is between Clinton and Trump, Trump will win. Clinton is not good in debates. And Trump plays dirty.

      • GayOldLady

        Of course I disagree. I think Hillary is very good at debates and will be particularly good against tRump who hasn’t any policy positions or any clue about foreign policy issues, or any idea about how to run anything that isn’t a hotel or a casino. Time will tell!!!

        • MickinDetroit

          I think she does fine in Debates…but the things we’ve seen on the R side that have lead to trumps surging aren’t debates. It remains to be seen if the lick spittle media will hold debates in the General… or just more slap fights where nothing substantive is discussed….only hurled invective.

          • GayOldLady

            I agree Mick…….But I think in the GE debates we’ll see an entirely different dynamic than we saw in the GOP debates. It won’t just be a partisan far right GOP audience watching. It will be a far right, center right, center, center left, left and far left audience and the majority of those people will not accept the sort of uninformed, slanderous, tacky and completely irresponsible comments that we saw in the GOP debates. I watched all but one of the GOP debates and they were disgraceful. I don’t think that sort of behavior or performance will be tolerated by the greater audience of the General Election. I could be wrong, but I still have faith in the American people.

        • He can’t even run a casino.

          • GayOldLady

            That’s the truth. But he can bankrupt one, can’t he?

          • Todd20036

            He can run a casino in to the ground. That counts, right?

        • OZ_in_TX

          All Trump has to do in the General debates is mention the money he’s given to the Clinton Foundation. And his reasons for inviting the Clintons to his 2005 wedding. And the State Department sweetheart weapons deals to countries that donated to the Clinton Foundation. He will happily tout his own status as a 1%er and will do everything he can to make sure the audience understands that Hillary is in the *same* multi-millionaire club he is. He’ll paint her as the Establishment Candidate, using all the shady crap the DNC has pulled in the past 6 months to show how the ‘Democratic Establishment’ wants Hillary. He’ll point to her campaign managers – more specifically, their wealth and influence and ties to the Establishment. And the Media will rush to re-hash everything the DNC has done, every accusation he’s made – because that’s what happens when Trump speaks.

          He will crucify her in the debates. And no amount of appealing to ‘party unity’ or fears about ‘the scary Republicans’ will change that.

          • GayOldLady

            Painting the Clinton Foundations has a hotbed of dirty dealing is a GOP mantra, (are you a supporter of the GOP?) but there isn’t an iota of proof of wrongdoing because if there were the GOP would have appointed a special prosecutor and indicted Hillary. They do control both houses and have the power to do it. It’s the same old dirty BS they used with Benghazi, the Emails, Vince Foster, Ron Brown, Hillary the lesbian, etc, etc, etc. And Hillary attending his wedding means what? And Hillary being a part of the establishment means what? Bernie sanders is part of the Establishment otherwise he wouldn’t have run as an “establishment” candidate under the banner of the DNC. Trump is part of the establishment, so what?

            Trump is a walking disaster area, and the GOP knows it, why else would they be doing everything in their power to end his candidacy. Hillary will annihilate him in the Debates.

            Now, if you don’t want to vote for Hillary that’s your decision, but you’re wasting your time and my time if you think you can plaster anti-Hillary BS on this blog and convince me or anyone else here to not vote for Hillary. So why continue? Let me guess, you hate Hillary so badly that you can’t help yourself? I have no bad feelings toward you or anyone else who has spent months bad mouthing and denigrating Hillary, but you’re wasting your time here. We will not vote for a GOP candidate, EVER!!!!

          • the problem, my friends, is that we are all just a little too well educated, perhaps comfortable, and also unaware of how voting actually works in the general.

            we like logic, facts, fair debates, democratic representation in a republic, etc.

            the majority, not so much. it’s not a question of party. it’s a question of emotion. where votes are actually counted, you’ll find that a lot of people “vote their gut” regardless of what that ends up meaning. it’s how you know who came to power, and it’s about to happen here.

            if only real liberal money had gotten behind Sanders. that exists, super rich gays and women and people of color with billions who could’ve shared a little more. he was our last best hope. i’ll see yall in the Oven Line. /sad

          • GayOldLady

            Are you saying Hillary is going to send us to the ovens? Or are you saying that Donald Trump is going to win and only Bernie could have beat him and kept us from the ovens? That’s a bit of an over dramatization because it isn’t going to happen. And there’s no reason to blame liberal or gay contributors for Bernie’s plight. Individuals could have given to Bernie if they supported his message, apparently at this point more people are supporting Hillary’s message than Bernie’s message. The last reporting cycle had Bernie raising total individual contributions of $96.3 million and Hillary raising total individual contributions of $130.4 million, that’s not Super Pac money, but it is a message. Of course Bernie doesn’t have a Super Pac, unless you count the DNC, but he has had Super Pacs from the GOP running ads against Hillary on her Wall Street speeches. So it was a donation in kind.

            In the Democratic Primary, which is the party/primary that Bernie decided to run in, you rise or fall on your message. At this point Bernie’s message does not appear to have won except in one small, all white, State. That could change, I hope Bernie stays in, but to win in the GE Bernie has to reach across all demographics and that is his challenge because thus far he hasn’t.

          • Alex in Idaho

            Life imitates art, it’s turning into high-volume, drama-dripping reality TV.

          • cleos_mom

            At this point, more like one of those old black-and-white TV soap operas complete with mello-drammer organ music.

          • cleos_mom

            Painting the Clinton Foundations has a hotbed of dirty dealing is a GOP mantra

            If she wins, we’ll have to get used to it. Look how many on the left just on this blog obediently recite every GOP talking point cranked out since the Repugs were claiming she put pornographic ornaments on the White House Christmas tree. And the derangement syndrome is going to carry right over from one Administration to the next.

          • GayOldLady

            All of us old enough to remember the GOP attacks on Hillary from the 90’s know what the GOP is going to do even before they do it. They’ve accused her of everything from having Vince Foster killed over a failed love affair to arranging the fatal plane crash that killed Ron Brown, to having a sexual relationship with Huma Abedin. That last one doesn’t bother me to badly. 🙂

        • Doug105

          Hotel or casino? Guess running them into the ground counts.

          Trump Towers: Bankrupt
          Trump Entertainment & Resorts: Bankrupt
          3 Trump Casinos: Bankrupt
          Trump Travel: Bankrupt
          Trump Airline: Bankrupt
          Trump Mortgage: Bankrupt
          Trump Presidency: _______

          Trump: Today’s most popular Republican presidential candidate.

          Republican Party: Bankrupt

      • hdtex

        Oh brother.

      • Zollergasse

        Stupid statement.

    • crewman

      Regarding needing change… at this point I would be fine with no change if it let us wait out the insanity that has gripped the GOP and avoid lurching to the far, far right where all the GOP candidates want to take us.

      • Frankly, this is probably what a Clinton presidency would involve.

    • Bernie the Visionary – Hillary the Pragmatist

      Hillary the Evolutionary – Bernie the Revolutionary

      Bernie the Game Changer – Hillary the Game Player

      Hillary the Democratic Centrist – Bernie the Democratic Socialist

      They are unique individuals, and these are generic statements – Bernie is not always to the left of Hillary (take gun control as an example).

      In economics, Hillary is the only candidate of all, GOP or Dem, whose policy proposals would effectuate the least change. Bernie’s plans *are* realistic, as long as there is a democratic majority in both houses with a willingness to legislate sweeping change, OTOH, the GOP candidate promises could, if enacted, bring total disruption to the economy.

      The *safe* choice is Hillary. The *right* choice is Bernie.

      We’ve seen what happens with radical candidates in the past – the GOP had Goldwater. The Democrats had McGovern. Bill Clinton made a shift to the right that made it possible for the Democrats to win the presidency in the post-Reagan era.

      With Trump showing that half or more of the GOP population is in that “angry white skinhead fascist racist” group, dissatisfied with the status quo, that hates people who are different from them (Muslims, Mexicans, gay and trans people), and with that tune attracting many more, the prospect for a neo-fascist America is becoming ever-more scarily possible.

      Bernie is tapping into the dissatisfaction of those who would make America a better place for everyone.

      Hillary represents change, but slowly. Hillary is also an advocate for women, for the trans, lesbian, bi and gay communities, and minorities – and Bernie is also good in these areas. The difference is still between incrementalism and radicalism in the rate of change.

      Either way, I am committed to support the Democratic candidate in November. My life depends on it.

      • hiker_sf

        Nice analysis. I’m supporting Sanders and I will even vote for the “death penalty” Democrat in November. I think labels are important and I wince when Sanders talks “revolution.” I understand there is some romantic attachment to the word, but you do the work and then let history figure out if it was a revolution.

        • Thanks for mentioning the differences on the death penalty- that is another area where Hillary is out of step (much like the way she admires the pragmatic Henry Kissinger – another pointer to how much her place on a scale of left-to-right would put her somewhere in the vicinity of Richard Nixon (and honestly, from the perspective of a centrist (not me) that would not be a bad place to be – the problem is that since Reagan, the “center” has lurched ever-further to the right, and we’re almost at the point where fascism, hand-in-hand with religious fuindamentalism, is verging on control of the country).

      • Zollergasse

        Hillary the progressive winner. Bernie the progressive loser.

    • Bill_Perdue

      For twenty four years the Clintons have orchestrated a conjugal relationship with Wall Street, to the immense financial benefit of both parties. They have accepted from the New York banks $68.72 million in campaign contributions for their six political races, and $8.85 million more in speaking fees. The banks have earned hundreds of billions of dollars in practices that were once prohibited—until the Clinton Administration legalized them.

      The extraordinary ambition displayed in the careers of Bill and Hillary Clinton defies description. They have spent much of their adult lives soliciting money from others for their own benefit. A 2014 story in Time magazine said this:

      “Few in American history have collected and benefited from so much money in so many ways over such a long period of time…the Clintons have attracted at least $1.4 billion in contributions…”

      Time failed to dig deeply enough. A more thoroughly researched expose’ in the Washington Post a year later doubles the amount to $3 billion. For twenty four years the Clintons have orchestrated a conjugal relationship with Wall Street, to the immense financial benefit of both parties. They have accepted from the New York banks $68.72 million in campaign contributions for their six political races, and $8.85 million more in speaking fees. The banks have earned hundreds of billions of dollars in practices that were once prohibited—until the Clinton Administration legalized them.

      The extraordinary ambition displayed in the careers of Bill and Hillary Clinton defies description. They have spent much of their adult lives soliciting money from others for their own benefit. A 2014 story in Time magazine said this:

      “Few in American history have collected and benefited from so much money in so many ways over such a long period of time…the Clintons have attracted at least $1.4 billion in contributions…”

      Time failed to dig deeply enough. A more thoroughly researched expose’ in the Washington Post a year later doubles the amount to $3 billion.” http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/02/26/the-clintons-and-wall-street-24-years-of-enriching-each-other/

      • Doug105

        Shouldn’t you be busy not voting and planning a busy day staying away from any real responsibility?

        • oikos

          Probably lost too much money at the slots and is here to vent his anger on us.

        • Bill_Perdue

          Unlike immigrant bashers and anti-arab racists like you socialists, leftists and people with a sense of decency do vote, but you don’t like it because we vote against all the things you support.

          We vote against wars of aggression against Arab and muslim peoples designed by the Clintons, the Bushes and Obama to steal oil and land. You vote for war if you vote for any Democrat or any Republican.

          We vote against the racist mass murder of Arabs and muslims and the Obama’s racist murders of Arab American citizens. You vote for murder if you vote for any Democrat or any Republican.

          We vote against fracking and offshore drilling. You vote for the destruction of the environment if you vote for any Democrat or any Republican.

          We vote against attacks on unions like the UAW and the Chicago Teachers Unions and against attacks on the standard of lining of working people by the Clintons, the Bushes and Obama. You vote for union busting and austerity if you vote for any Democrat or any Republican.

          We vote to preserve the Bill of Rights, you vote for FISA, NDAA, the Paytriot Act, NSA spying and the racist murders of US citizens if you vote for any Democrat or any Republican.

          We vote against border racism and the deportation of millions of immigrant workers. You vote for that totally racist and inhumane policy if you vote for any Democrat or any Republican.

          • Doug105

            By the way, how about posting that quote by the UN dickhead about how islamophobia should be illegal, want to show some other atheists how the loony left want new blasphemy laws no doubt modeled on Saudi Arabia’s.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Racist dunce.

          • Doug105

            And get it right you’re a communist not socialist.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Socialists don’t ever support Democrats. But some racists do.

          • Doug105

            And how would you know what a socialist would do communist .

          • Bill_Perdue

            Communists (not Stalinists) are socialists. Democrats like you are immigrant bahsers and racist Islamophobes.
            Plan on doing a little witchunting, Roy?

    • OZ_in_TX

      “And dammit, we NEED change.” You support for Clinton completely invalidates this statement. Seriously. If you think you’re fooling anyone with your ‘I’m gonna say something that’ll fool the Bernie supporters’ hand-wringing… uh, no.

      • Ray Taylor

        tRump Troll alert.

    • 5moreminutes*imtired

      Class act all the way. I would say though, that his laser focus on only “Occupy Wall Street” issues definitely hurt him in the end. All important issues, but not the only issues.

    • Queequeg

      Well said. I agree completely. I also, think that he,unlike some of his supporters, understands tha it is important to have a Democratic president. He will have the integrity to get behind Clinton. I worry that some of his supporters will not. I’m alrady seeing comments that Trump is more honest than Hillary, and tuat scares me.

    • JCF

      Hear, hear.

    • dwieboldt

      Totally and absolutely right. While I would fear either a Sanders or Clinton campaign, I will vote for the nominee, and do my damnest to get them elected. We can’t afford the disaster of the opposition in any part of government… They are completely unhinged (except perhaps Kasich)…

  • Prion

    ,..

    • MickinDetroit

      ..just make it out to the Clinton Foundation…

  • Prion

    ,.,

  • SoCalVet

    I’m feeling emotional about the gains women will make in this world very soon.

    • Todd20036

      I’d settle for some of the anti choice state laws solely meant to close clinics be rolled back

      • Doug105

        And better funding for Planned Parenthood.

      • McSwagg

        Keep an eye on the challenge to the Texas anti-abortion law now before the Supreme Court. If SCOTUS splits 4-4 on it, the draconian Texas law is upheld. If that happens, other states will rush to copy the Texas law.

        • 5moreminutes*imtired

          Something interesting I hadn’t heard before. I was listening to a blog-cast over the weekend that mentioned that all the cases the are split 4-4 this year will be revisited once the new justice is confirmed. Silver lining and all that…

          • McSwagg

            Is that a ‘Court Policy’ or is it that the litigants will likely refile their appeal? I’d be interested in the source of this information.

          • 5moreminutes*imtired

            Something similar to SCOTUSBLOG, but not. lol If that helps. Which, if you think it through makes sense. Something becoming accepted legal standard by default is inherently unconstitutional. Only bad thing is, yes, those laws would stand until then.

      • SoCalVet

        yes!

    • i have my doubts. people said, “the world will be so much better for black people when obama is elected.” that’s been true. to a minor extent. but i live in a black ‘hood filled with poor people. they are still waiting for the generous benefit of having a black president. some of them are even worse off (not saying it’s all his fault). let’s don’t start talking about the reality of today’s Africa, where american money kills children daily.

      people like to prove things with their votes. white people wanted to prove their weren’t racist, and so obama. now, people are going to prove that Murka is Ready for a Vagina Leader. i guess that’s a worthwhile statement.

      there are more than 7 billion people on this planet, and more than half of those are women and young girls. 4-8 years from now, i’d like to revisit your comment and see if you were right.

      • Lawerence Collins

        Obama is a Neo-Liberalist. He’s part of the establishment. Why do you think not one big banker went to prison? I could go on and on. Clinton is the establishment as well. A month or so ago she on camera called herself a moderate. Now she’s a progressive. Sanders has dragged her to the left momentarily.

        • dwieboldt

          She’s always been to the left of her husband, which is why the right hate her so vociferously…

      • Todd20036

        To use your phrasing, Clinton would be the first vaginal president, so there is no precedent.

        Blacks are better off, with regards to what Obama could do from the White House.

        Cops killing black kids? Unfortunately that requires more blacks elected to local offices to be properly addressed.

        • SoCalVet

          it wasn’t even talked about before Obama was President..for the most part.

      • dwieboldt

        The President has to deal with the Congress that he gets. Bernie will never get his ‘”revolution” with a Republican House, and Hillary is the only Democratic candidate willing to settle for “incremental” progress… Sometimes you have to settle with reality. He can’t, she expects too.

    • Gyeo

      Having a woman as a president doesn’t mean gain for all women. There have been plenty of women on the right wing side who ran for president who actively worked against women rights. And plenty of example from the rest of the world where women leaders didn’t advance women right. The notion that a politician will help all women simply because she identifies as a women is so outdated.

      • Zollergasse

        Well this candidate is not on the right (despite what some Sanders supporters would have you believe – and she has a LONG record on promoting women’s rights. She will enact change.

      • dwieboldt

        Except in the case of Secretary Clinton…

  • Prion

    ,,.

  • Prion

    ,,,

    • Todd20036

      Really don’t see how speaking fees is an issue. Bill charged. HW Bush charged. W charged. Reagan… became too demented, but you can bet he would have charged if he could.

      • BUT BUT BUT HILLARY = BIG BAAAAAAAAAAAANKS

        • Bill_Perdue

          Is that why you like her? “Between 2013 and April 2015, Clinton was paid $21.7 million in fees for 92 speeches that she delivered to various Wall Street firms, major corporations, and trade associations. During a Democratic presidential debate on February 4, Clinton was asked if she would release the transcripts of all her paid speeches. She furtively responded, “I will look into it. I don’t know the status, but I will certainly look into it.”

          http://www.nationofchange.org/news/2016/02/20/bernie-challenges-hillary-to-release-her-secret-wall-street-speeches/

      • OZ_in_TX

        So your response is ‘It’s okay if Hillary did it because everyone else did it!’ Gosh sounds rather… Establishment. Oh and for the record? Bernie Sanders didn’t.

        • Friday

          Of course that’s not entirely true, and getting that much in speaking fees is not the same as demanding it all from some kids even *to* speak.

  • joe ho

    • Bill_Perdue

      americka.org is a bit to the right of the National Review. Your’e in good company.

    • Prion

      ..,,

      • joe ho

        ;;;;;;

  • joe ho

    ….

    • Prion

      …,

      • joe ho

        ;;;

  • joe ho

    ……

    • Prion

      ….

      • joe ho

        …..

      • I’d say that one is as much a critique of Sanders as it is of Clinton.

        • Friday

          At least inasmuch as a lot of Bernie supporters don’t understand that electing him doesn’t mean he can just change who owns what just like that. (And acknowledging that that situation is real and must be dealt with doesn’t mean I or Hillary for that matter *like it.* )

          A lot of the damage done by the same young voters not getting Obama a more-supportive legislature, and of course what Dubya did before and stuck the Obama administration with the bill for …is still in effect. I think where Bernie has failed and certainly why his supporters just going negative on everything is that he hasn’t shown a process or means to *accomplish* any of his economic agenda in the current *real* situation. Which is in many ways not-good for the very same reasons we don’t already *have* much of what’s on his and Hillary’s and Obama’s agenda.

      • joe ho

        lol.

        can’t keep up?

        delegate count:

        clinton 544
        sanders 85

    • The supply-siders don’t understand economics. Bernie’s plans seem to be a lot more realistic than the shrill criticism coming from the oligarchs who would be most affected.

      Democratic Socialism is an advancement to civilization. It would be really nice if America managed to become more civilized, like some of those nice countries in Europe where this approach has already been shown to work well – as long as it is done right. Denmark, not Greece.

      • Friday

        I think you’ll find most Hillary supporters agree there, but what Bernie’s failed to do is a) Communicate that to enough people and b) Say anything substantive as to how he’s supposed to make any of his promises ‘just happen’ in the current real situation. No, his *end result* isn’t somehow unworkable if you could have it all drop in place, but you can’t just make it happen all at once and work at every given point in the process by Presidential fiat. Especially considering what the ‘bad guys’ unfortunately presently *hold* ….which despite their party’s political disintegration and devo-lution, is still a lot of the stuff that needs to get back in the people’s hands. And that’s not just about big-money numbers, it’s about there needing to be a lot of rebuilding in the real economy so that the balance of who’s too screwed to even unionize changes.

        In a sense Bernie’s talking a great Marshall plan, the problem is right now the good guys gotta mop up the Right’s battle of the bulge and establish a good front and supply lines to you know, push on to the Rhine. Promises about end results aren’t the same as a plan appropriate to making the good stuff happen, or even be feasible. All this energy supposedly in the Bernie campaign needs to turn to electing people at *all* levels who aren’t Righties, not to just jump on bandwagons and wonder why not much good seems to happen.

        • Great analysis – Whoever the Democratic candidate is, *will* need coat tails long enough to at least return the Senate to a Democratic majority in 2016.

          Then they have to get their legislative program set in motion – and pull a page from the Reagan playbook to make nationally televised speeches urging the American People to push their congressional representatives into supporting that program.

          If that does not work, the president (Hillary or Bernie) will have to spend much of 2018 actively campaigning for progressive democrats to be elected to the House, while continuing the pressure to get the Congress to act on the legislative package.

          Let us remember that while Obama had a Senate and a House democratic majority in 2009-10, that House majority had more than enough “blue dog” democrats to keep much of Obama’s agenda off the table (there were not 218 progressive or even moderate democrats. In that Congress there were 54 *conservative* Democrats in the “blue dog” caucus – There were between 254 and 258 house democrats in the 111th Congress – which meant that at best, there were only just over 200 reliable democrats, not enough for the Obama agenda to get through unscathed. And from 2010 to the present, the tea party has made the House lurch to the silly-season right, and the GOP has taken the Senate as well.

          Both houses have to come back to the Democrats, and in a real enough way to make it possible for any Democrat to get a legislative agenda through.

          Without that, neither Hillary nor Bernie will do very well. But in an environment where there is a democratic house majority that includes blue dogs, Hillary has more of a chance to get things done than Bernie does. Just not as much or as far.

          • Friday

            Frankly, people try to deride ‘incrementalism,’ but you really can’t just put up a roof when someone’s been torching the frame and stopping up the drainage and expect to have a house. (Frankly, that’s why the GOP was pushing at the very things they now can’t control so long: they were profiting by it short term, and some of them really do want to pull the whole house down and make something that’s not even America. )

          • Ninja0980

            We also have to start focusing on local and state races, as that is where policy is being made these days and where future candidates for the House and Senate will come from.

  • Sanders was never going to win. all of us who support him have always known this. the better way to say it is that he will never be allowed to win. we went thru this before, the last time a (cheating bastard of) a progressive tried this.

    the point was never about making Sanders president, even tho when we dream and wonder, we held a hope that might happen. but when we are realists, we understand the point of this campaign was to introduce the issues into an otherwise bullshit discussion about “who should be president?”

    the media has way too much influence over the process, and that’s been clear for a long time now. the truth is a strong push of ads during the last 6 weeks or so is usually enough to do it. she’s always had the money. tRump does too, so it will be amusing, to those of us who never wanted to see such a final choice, how that all works out.

    still, the Sanders campaign itself is a victory. progressive are finally realizing they are not totally alone and isolated, and a lot of people hearing it for the first time like it. from this position comes the hope for better leadership the next time around. i doubt HRC will run for a second term. Sanders has opened the door for something more.

    • MickinDetroit

      you doubt HRC will run for a second term? where do you get that?

    • OZ_in_TX

      And plus we’ve certainly seen the lengths the ‘Democratic Establishment’ will go to in order to prop up their candidate, right? I have never been so *sickened* to see the Democratic party – the party I’ve supported for 20 years, do the very things I’ve raged at the Republicans for doing.

      This article, while an opinion piece, nicely sums it up.

      http://us.wow.com/article/n3GSrD/9329414

      • Friday

        I really don’t buy that. At least as something particularly *relevant.* Of course politics sucks in that it’s not just about who’s got the ‘best ideas’ to any given group, and yes, the importance of money is still freaking *there,* like it or not. This ‘Democratic Establishment,’ such as it is, didn’t just pop out of nowhere to twist moustaches and ruin people’s days when someone deigned to show up and script a talking point about it. It’s still going to be what we have to oppose the Right with until enough people do other than self-righteously *bitch* about it.

  • ryan charisma

    thank you Bernie for pulling Hillary to the left.

    you did a good job.

    • Bill_Perdue

      Hillary Clinton is lying.

      • oikos

        ..

        • Thank you. That made my day.

        • Bill_Perdue

          Non political comment from a non-political dunce.

          • oikos

            How is your campaign to bring down Capitalism going and how exactly does your gambling in casinos owned by the 1% accomplish that?

          • Bill_Perdue

            Non political comment from a non-political dunce.

            Is this the only reason you love HRH HRC?

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALXulk0T8cg

          • oikos

            Answer the question. How does your gambling support of tRump and Adelson change the system?

          • Bill_Perdue

            It’s not a question, dunce. Why do you support wars of aggression and racism?

          • oikos

            Your evasion reveals your hypocrisy.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Trump, like you has a little problem denouncing racists.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALXulk0T8cg

            Why is that not surprising? Why are you afraid to denounce her rabid racism?

            It seems that you’re a bit worse than a dunce. Did you know that Roy Roy Cohn had a soft spot for racists too?

          • danolgb

            So, you believe all black people are gang members? Because that’s the only way to take that out-of-context quote and make it make racist.

          • Bill_Perdue

            No, HRH HRC, the rabid racist, believes and says that. And you defend her because racists don’t denounce other racists.

          • danolgb

            That’s a lovely false statement. Sad you have to lie to make a point.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Then explain why you won’t say you’re against her rabid racism.

          • danolgb

            Because what she said wasn’t racist. She was talking about gangs. The portion of the video intentionally cut out. Thanks for playing. Pick up your home game on the way out.

          • Bill_Perdue

            She’s a racist and you’re afraid to say so. You’ll lose this one.

          • danolgb

            More selective editing! Yay!

    • OZ_in_TX

      And the *moment* she gets the nomination, she’ll snap right back to center-right and expect that we just won’t notice.

      • Friday

        If she were as cynical as the Right and certain Berniebots claim, …exactly how would that serve to her political advantage in the first place? The GOP have descended to filibustering their *own* negotiated proposals just to obstruct a Democratic President, exactly how do you figure someone that ‘calculating’ would expect any different from these clowns and fanatics?

  • I like Bernie and his focus on income inequality, and I think he has definitely pulled Clinton to the left in the primaries, which is fantastic. However, he’s been absolutely awful at minority engagement, to the point of appearing apathetic about minority issues (and apparently this is a holdover form his Vermont days – where he didn’t have to do this) – and in this Democratic party, that’s a killer. I’m also ambivalent about his foreign policy (or lack thereof) and his apparent inability or unwillingness to hire anyone who can correct his minority outreach or improve his foreign policy.

    Clinton definitely has her problems. I think she’ll be as centrist as Obama if she’s elected to office, and won’t stay as far left as she’s been in the primaries. I doubt her justice department will increase its pursuit of Wall Street, and she also has very few concrete answers on improving race relations – but she’s *trying* on the latter issue. Her foreign policy credentials are second to none – the GOP can’t make Benghazi stick, no matter how much they try. And, of the two of them, I think she has a better chance of getting things done with the Senate, as she has more friends in both parties than Sanders appears to.

    • MickinDetroit

      “Her foreign policy credentials are second to none -” What the what? She’s a neo con in a pantsuit. That is a huge problem.

      • Friday

        Frankly, no one else running in either party really has any particular foreign policy credentials to speak of. And frankly, until we can clear up this Republican obstructionism, that’s likely to actually be the stage something can be done on regarding our own economy, 🙂

      • Yes, let’s make vague assertions, make sexist comments about her clothing, and ignore the fact that we have better foreign relations with a majority of countries and didn’t get involved in any new wars or send troops into Egypt or Syria under her tenure like the neocons wanted.

        • MickinDetroit

          The accusations aren’t vague. havent gotten involved…are you fucking kidding me? What drone strikes and toppling regimes doesn’t count when it’s a democrat?She’s a hawk and in every conflict errs on the side of maximum intervention politically possible. Libya, syria, iraq… she hasn’t met a dictator or civil war she doesn’t want to intervene in. This is a problem.

          • You do realize that the drone strikes in Syria started *after* her tenure as Secretary of State, right?

          • MickinDetroit

            you realize she advocated for no fly zones and those strikes before that…right?

          • Friday

            BS. Besides, Commander-in-Chief is no place for someone who can’t pull the trigger *ever,* any more than it’s a place for these hateful lunatics on the Right. And frankly, just electing Bernie wouldn’t make Dubya’s foreign policy and military blunders and their effects disappear, any more than just electing Obama could have.

          • MickinDetroit

            electing HRC to repeat them doesn’t help either…

          • Friday

            Thinking there’s something there to ‘repeat’ means you haven’t been paying attention.

          • Bill_Perdue

            HRH HRC is a hateful rightwing, racist, warmonger and tool of the rich.

            What will make this disappear? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALXulk0T8cg

          • hdtex

            BEETLE JUICE, BEETLE JUICE, BEETLE JUICE!!!!!!

          • Bill_Perdue

            Dunce.

            ”A Monsanto Co. lobbyist, who is seen as Hillary Clinton’s “main man” in Iowa, was among the top financial bundlers of contributions to benefit Hillary Clinton’s run for the White House in the most recent quarter, new Federal Election Commission reports show.

            Jerry Crawford of the Crawford & Mauro Law Firm in Des Moines, Iowa, bundled $151,727 for the campaign over the quarter ending Dec. 31, FEC documents show. Crawford is senior adviser to Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign and was the Midwest Co-Chair of the Hillary Clinton for President Campaign in 2007-08. His firm listed Monsanto as a client in the most recent quarter, reporting $60,000 in lobbying income from Monsanto. Monsanto is known as one of the nation’s most powerful corporations, and is currently engaged in a range of public policy debates over regulation of its genetically modified crops and top herbicide product, Roundup.

            Another Monsanto lobbyist, Steve Elmendorf, bundled $20,295 in contributions for the Hillary for America organization during the quarter, FEC documents show. Elmendorf also does work for the Grocery Manufacturers Association, which has been battling against mandatory labeling laws for foods made with GMOs http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/34688-big-campaign-cash-for-clinton-from-monsanto-lobbyist

          • Friday

            If you think agribusiness interests aren’t a thing in Iowa, *you’re* the ‘political dunce.’

          • Friday

            Make what disappear? Twelve seconds about something to do with violent sociopaths? Just because Republicans have used that word for a racist dogwhistle doesn’t make that her context back then about some of the violent attacks going on at the time.

            You making stuff up doesn’t mean it is a thing that has to ‘disappear,’ and we all know you’re just a troll who says ‘Both Parties Are The Same’ after every freaking bit of right wing lunacy from the GOP. You can’t even *modulate* your line never mind make a case for it. Pathetic.

          • Bill_Perdue

            You candidates rabid racsim.

          • Friday

            Not when that is a delusion you’ve made up in the first place, I suppose.

          • Bad Tom

            You’ve posted that clip, what, four times today?

            It’s not any more convincing this time, either.

      • cleos_mom

        And her handbag doesn’t always match her shoes. Oh, the humanity…..

    • hiker_sf

      I think that the Republicans hate Clinton more than Sanders. Regardless, neither will get anything done if the Republicans continue to hold congress.

      • Ray Taylor

        So vote Democrat and take over the congress.

        • hiker_sf

          I never thought of that. Thanks for the helpful advice.

          • Ray Taylor

            You are welcome. 🙂

      • Friday

        I think they hate her cause she’s effective anyway. (Frankly, they’ve been attacking her for being ‘too feminist’ since the first Bill Clinton *campaign.*) I love Bernie for what he’s spoken up for in Congress and all but he, ..they’ve generally been able to *dismiss.* Until recently they’ve been able to use his campaign to sow disinformation and dissention among liberal voters. Yes, we can expect a Clinton Presidency to be attacked and obstructed as much as the Republicans can, just as they’d do to anyone. The question I’ve asked in that regard is who is best equipped to *cope* with that. The answer there is we need at least one term of Hillary and for the legislative and midterm elections to go well for us, not complain as if somehow bitching about POTUS candidates not being able to do everything all at once by fiat has worked in the *last* six years.

        • hiker_sf

          I think they hate her because, as you said, they’ve always hated the Clintons. She could cure cancer and they’d hate her.

          • Friday

            I think she can deal with that. It’s a little harder to say Sanders can: he tends to just keep repeating himself, cause frankly, progressives like us are the only ones he’s really had to impress, for the most part.

            In some ways this is the fallout of a lot of us who came up in various Reagan and Bush administrations having given up on elected office as a bad job to be avoided, or in the case of a lot of GenXers, bound to be dominated by the same rather suddenly long-lived Baby Boomers and pre-boomers for the forseeable future. (Not to mention a lot of us were just plain squeezed out a lot of life that way, even if we weren’t, as in my case, a little busy being homeless/in poverty as LGBT youth in very bad times. )

            As a result, the Republicans, despite being forced to fall back on former ‘Young Republican’ assholes like Ted Cruz and now Rubio, ….they got a million stuffed shirts to fill benches and quote bumperstickers and pound Bibles and scapegoat minorities.

            Especially in the South it seems progressives got a lot of activists and not actually a whole lot of *candidates.* Lot of people saying ‘Feel the Bern’ and grousing while most Republican offices run unopposed, or there’s so little attention paid that Religious Righties get away with stealth campaigns as Democrats, then switch allegiances en masse.

            It’s one thing to want a political ‘Revolution,’ ..it’s one thing to get behind a *leader,* like say Obama…. It’s another thing to just think all you gotta do is worry *about* a horse-race for the top office and then expect ‘someone’ to step up.

          • hiker_sf

            Both of the Democratic candidates have very politically diverse bases of support.

            What disgusts me is that one type of Clinton supporters are “comfortable gays” who rant about the ‘far left’ and ‘idealism.’ Without the far left and idealism, there would have been no rights for LGBTs. I guess they’ve got their rights now and screw everyone else.

            As a strategy to defeat Republicans, I’ll be voting for Clinton in November. But I do not at all support her. To me she stands for everything that is wrong with politics in the US. And while I’m ranting, I’m not all that excited about Sanders either.

          • Friday

            Umm, there’s ‘idealism’ and then there’s ‘idealism as a substitute for actually getting anything done.’ And if you’re accusing me of being ‘comfortable,’ …wrong number, I assure you.

            Frankly, my ideals are not something Bernie supporters have a problem with. Pointing out that ‘ideological purity’ and a dime isn’t worth any more to us than it was to Republicans …far less, in fact, as ulterior motives *aren’t* on our side, seems to result in people seeming to think I am some rich person or something, …. far from it.

            What I am is someone who knows that she isn’t standing *for* ‘what Washington has become,’ ….she just knows how to walk *in* it. Making Washington become something else is on *us,* and not just for a Presidential bandwagon and a lot of blame.

          • hiker_sf

            Actually, I wasn’t specifically addressing you in my criticism. I haven’t seen you rant about the ‘far left’ but if the shoe fits. . .

          • Friday

            I haven’t seen *anyone* rant about the ‘Far Left’ as if it existed in the US besides right-wingers in the first place. Come down to it, Bernie’s ‘Socialism’ is more or less a modernized New Deal anyway, which is frankly what I voted for Obama hoping for some of.. And frankly, hoping Hillary will at least hold the line on and push at getting some *back,* if we want to actually *see* any of this good stuff as opposed to the fist-chewing madness the GOP would bring.

            Frankly, if nothing else I think Hillary counts as ‘The smartest one in the room’ when it comes to getting *anything.*

          • hiker_sf

            There are commenters on this thread and on JMG who rant about the far left and idealism.

            I wouldn’t call Hillary the smartest in the room. I’d call her the most shrewd politician in the room, whose complete lack of ethics (like Cruz) combined with her uncanny ability to sometimes “out-smart” others (unlike Cruz) makes her a good candidate to fight Trump.

          • Friday

            Kind of not putting much stock in what you ‘call’ anyone or anything right now, if that’s what you think.

          • hiker_sf

            OK, I’ll block your comments so I’m not tempted to engage you in conversation. Have a good day.

            Blocking on.

          • Friday

            Riiiiight, way to do politics.

      • Ninja0980

        No it won’t.
        But we need a Democratic president and Senate in there in order to put more progressive judges on the bench, simple as that.

    • Silver_Witch

      Yes Hillary is much better at engaging minorities. She has definitely brought them to “heel”.

      • Friday

        Oh, come on, you really think actually talking like a right-winger is going to convince anyone?

        • Silver_Witch

          It is what Hillary said – not me – I am just repeating the message – isn’t that what you want?

      • cleos_mom

        More evidence that most people want you to be happy, healthy and safe. As long as you’re doing what they want.

    • how many black voters have you spoken with about Sanders, personally? i’m just curious.

      it’s seems a lot of white people just “know” that Sanders is unpopular in the black community. it also seems that a lot of white people who don’t have black neighbors or go to black churches don’t understand how and why many black people vote. also: voting machines. call me foily, but i’m just gonna keep droppin that mic.

      black people where i live, including myself, just voted really hard for something. please, tell me how well you know what they are thinking. i can.

      • MickinDetroit

        i think south carolina just showed that Sanders and no black support of consequence…”Clinton won with the support of 84 percent of the state’s black community”.

        • no, SC showed the power of the machine. black church leaders tell the only black people who still vote there (older black women) that HRC is the one. so they do.

          most of my neighbors are young, and don’t go to church. the thing they just all actually turned out to vote for was an issue, not a white politician. they won’t bother for a primary, and only some of them will vote for a dem in the election. mostly, these kids just don’t give a fuck.

          there are many more of them, than old black grandmothers who go to church every weekend and vote like they are told. but in our system, those younger people don’t count. even when they turn out to vote.

          i will make you folks understand, and soon. our system is so much more fucked than you will admit. HRC has every mainline dem machine higher up behind her, black or other wise. good for her. but please know that i have no interest in what white people on TV say about what “the black vote means.” they don’t live here, i do.

          and you’re not wrong, despite people knocking you for it. yeah, you should listen to what some people even here are saying about rump. it will scare you.

          • MickinDetroit

            your post is a bit contradictory though. the only way to measure support is at the ballot box. if young people are moved to vote for an issue…or an issue candidate, then would we see 8 in 10 voting for HRC if Bernie is the issue candidate? no, they’d be moderating that machine vote. and yes, I get that no group is a mindless voting bloc. but 8 in 10 of that group voting for a candidate tends to show a “lean”..

            I think black folks, like every other folks … are voting for the lesser of two evils. I don’t think many, if any, are embracing HRC as some sort of savior….just as someone who at least marginally has their interests somewhere on her radar.

          • Friday

            You’re in *Chicago,* though. In this Southern college town, at least, it *seems* most of the townies of color are either oblivious or Fundies or maybe think Bernie’s another Nader. More than that, anyone in the *know* realizes just how bad it could get if we lose the Presidential. Cause it’s the fricking *South.* It would get very bad very quickly if there was nothing like a Dem President holding the Right in check from Washington. The stakes about risking putting a Cruz or Rubio or Trump in there to *rubberstamp* everything are just too damn high.

            It’s only worse the further out you go. Atlanta? Maybe there’ll be better numbers for Bernie than South Carolina, but I’m not particularly counting on it. I can’t afford cable TV so I have no idea if they’re even much covering the fact the primaries are Tuesday. Or who would hear that.

        • Steven Leahy

          While you dismiss Iowa as irrelevant and place great importance on SC for some unknown reason, you may wish to remember that while she’ll win big in most of the southern primaries, she’ll lose all of those states in the national election, because those pesky whites there you seem to resent so much will ensure those states vote republican.

          The outcomes in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida, Virginia and Missouri, among others, are far more consequential since they can actually swing either way in the election at large.

          • MickinDetroit

            how is that relevant to the OPs point or mine? the post was about black turnout and votes in the DEM primary. Sure she’ll lose SC because it’s a state mostly populated by unreconstructed bigots… I don’t get where I said any different.

  • The Professor

    Ok. Let’s move on. Let her start in on Trump, so come November we will not only get the WH but the Senate back as well. The GOP knows they’re toast if Trump wins the nomination, which it looks as if he is likely to do.

  • Bill_Perdue

    Sanders is a Democrat and they’re as irrelevant as Republicans. The economy of pillage and piracy the rich and .01%ers presides over is steadily lurching towards another great fall, slowly this time, instead of suddenly and all at once as it did in 1929 and 2007-8.

    In both cases “Had the economy been fundamentally sound in 1929 the effect of the great stock market crash might have been small…. But business in 1929 was not sound; on the contrary it was exceedingly fragile. It was vulnerable to the kind of blow it received from Wall Street. … The singular feature of the great crash of 1929 was that the worst continued to worsen. … The Coolidge bull market was a remarkable phenomenon. The ruthlessness of its liquidation was, in its own way, equally remarkable.” Extracts from The Great Crash: 1929, John Kenneth Galbraith

    • Bill_Perdue

    • Michael Rush

      Is anyone here voting for Bill Perdue ?

    • oikos

      Which primaries will Chelsea Manning win to secure the nomination?

      • Bill_Perdue

        Voting for Democrats or Republicans is voting against socialized medicine. That’s why you like them. “A new scientific study from Princeton researcher Martin Gilens and Northwestern researcher Benjamin I. Page has finally put some science behind the recently popular argument that the United States isn’t a democracy any more. And they’ve found that in fact, America is basically an oligarchy.

        Comparing the preferences of the average American at the 50th percentile of income to what those Americans at the 90th percentile preferred, as well as the opinions of major lobbying or business groups, the researchers found out that the government followed the directives set forth by the latter two much more often. It’s beyond alarming.

        As Gilens and Page write, ‘the preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.’ In other words, their statistics say your opinion literally does not matter.” http://mic.com/articles/87719/princeton-concludes-what-kind-of-government-america-really-has-and-it-s-not-a-democracy

        ”The government we have is not a democracy. It’s nowhere close. Instead, a corruption in the very idea of a representative democracy has rendered our nation almost ungovernable. We have entered the age of the “vetocracy,” as political theorist Francis Fukuyama puts it, where very small numbers in America can block almost any sensible change. – Gridlock happens not because Americans want it. Gridlock happens because it pays — for that tiny minority.http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/lawrence-lessig-america-not-democracy-article-1.2374820

        I hope you’re heavily invested in the stock market.

        • oikos
          • Bill_Perdue

            ..,.

          • oikos
          • But it’s more fun to complain, and post screeds no one reads, and charts without any context.

          • Bill_Perdue

            All you do is complain about Sanders supporters and your brothers and sisters in the Republican party.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Voting, much like you, is irrelevant. That’s fact, not election year BS.

          • oikos
          • Bill_Perdue

            More Hilbot though police BS.

          • oikos

            Yes, voting is the thought police. Take your meds.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Demanding that people waster their votes or shut up is what you and Roy Cohn were/are all about, Roy.

          • oikos

            How many primaries has Chelsea won so far?

          • Bill_Perdue

            Tell us what else attracts you to Hillary aside from here racism, warmongering and union busting? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNfuplRB2GI

          • oikos

            You don’t know who I support in the primaries, ratfucker. I will support whichever Dem wins the nomination while you will sit home on your ass , eating Cheetos and bitching like a typical impotent keyboard warrior and accomplishing nothing. Take your meds.

          • Bill_Perdue

            I do know you’re a right wing enabler of racism, wars or aggression, union busting and that you most resemble Roy Cohn, piglet.

          • oikos

            You know nothing and that is your problem. You wallow in fear, hate and ignorance and attack the very people that would be your allies if you weren’t such a small minded bigot.

          • Bill_Perdue

            I’m not at all you you, I don’t wallow racism and union busting like you.

          • oikos

            Your union endorsed Obama. I am a union member. Your tantrum is dismissed. Go to your room with no supper, billybob.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Socialists oppose union bureaucrats, even a scab like you ought to get that, Mr. Cohn.

          • Friday

            *laugh. ‘ If voting is irrelevant’ you sure spend a lot of effort trying to stop people on one side from doing it or even paying attention to relevant information.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Vote for racists until the cows come home, scores of millions won’t join you in the sty.

        • Silver_Witch

          This is not news to most Americans. I stopped signing petitions because those in power could care less what we think. You do k ow Bill that this country was not designed to be a demo racy -yes?

          And so would should we vote fro?

          • oikos

            He wants you to not vote at all or vote for Chelsea Manning.

        • Paula

          What stocks do you own Bill?

          • oikos

            Bill ‘invests’ his money in the slots.

          • Paula

            Is that a winning strategy?

          • oikos

            Apparently not. He comes here to vent his anger after each losing streak.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Another mindless non-political comment from a mindless dunce who like HRH HRC because she’s a racist and a tool of the rich. “Between 2013 and April 2015, Clinton was paid $21.7 million in fees for 92 speeches that she delivered to various Wall Street firms, major corporations, and trade associations. During a Democratic presidential debate on February 4, Clinton was asked if she would release the transcripts of all her paid speeches. She furtively responded, “I will look into it. I don’t know the status, but I will certainly look into it.”

            http://www.nationofchange.org/news/2016/02/20/bernie-challenges-hillary-to-release-her-secret-wall-street-speeches/

          • Bill_Perdue

            None.

  • DesertSun59

    I believe we can trust Millennials to NOT vote their conscience or even vote at all. Millennials refusing to vote prove they’re not engaged in the political process and are perfectly willing to be wage slaves for the rest of their lives.

    You must vote for Hillary in the General. Even tho she will tack right back to where she started at the very beginning of this campaign, you have ZERO choice other than a fascist. Your choice is a Hard Right Democrat or a fascist. Take your pick.

    • hiker_sf

      Oh shut up and stop blaming millennials. In modern times, in each generation, the percent of young adults that voted is low.

      • MickinDetroit

        exactly…so paying attention to them in any election is sort of stupid. What’s that about doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result?

        • danolgb

          Which campaign was it that was counting on these said m̶i̶l̶l̶e̶n̶i̶a̶l̶s̶ young adults to come out in droves to support him?

    • Friday

      She’s also not ‘Hard Right’ all of a sudden just cause Bernie threw his hat in the ring. That’d make Bernie 93 percent “Hard Right” as well, despite being less ‘Left’ on gun control than Hillary has been.

    • OZ_in_TX

      In other words… “Hillary is Bad, Trump is Worse! Vote Hillary!” Gawd, and we wonder why Millennials think the whole process is fucked up.

      • Ray Taylor

        Many choices in life are not perfect.

      • joe ho

        lol. reality check. the life process is fucked up. or haven’t you noticed?

      • Friday

        Frankly, even if you *think* she’s ‘bad,’ demanding “Free Range Prime Rib For Free Or Nothing!” doesn’t mean the real contest isn’t between ‘We all get the blue plate special if we do the work,’ vs. “Shit sandwiches for everyone but the hate preachers and the ultra-rich and they’ll make it hellish to even get that.”

        Whoever we elect doesn’t get handed a magic wand, just a big part of the toolbox. Too much of the rest of which is still in the wrong hands.

  • oikos

    ..

    • Bill_Perdue

      Don’t worry, Democrats and Republicans are the same, Mr. Cohn. You’ll be happy no matter which party opposed to socialized medicine, unions and defenidng the Bill of Rights wins, won’t you Roy.

      • oikos

        ..

        • studd55

          What’s with the constant bullying of a member here at JMG?

          • oikos

            You must be new here.

          • studd55

            Only long enough to see a pattern.

            So what’s the history?

            Apparently it must be pretty convincing if the webmaster let’s it go on for an extended time.

          • Ray Taylor

            Bill is tolerated, barely. He is also the one who we never mention.

          • hdtex

            BEETLE JUICE, BEETLE JUICE, BEETLE JUICE

          • Bill_Perdue

            ”At Thursday night’s Democratic presidential debate, one of the most heated exchanges concerned an unlikely topic: Henry Kissinger. … Clinton did not mention … that her bond with Kissinger was personal as well as professional, as she and her husband have for years regularly spent their winter holidays with Kissinger and his wife, Nancy, at the beachfront villa of fashion designer Oscar de la Renta, who died in 2014, and his wife, Annette, in the Dominican Republic. … It was odd that the Clintons, locked in a fierce fight to win Democratic votes, would name-check a fellow who for decades has been criticized—and even derided as a war criminal—by liberals. … Clinton wrote a fawning review of Kissinger’s latest book and observed, “America, he reminds us, succeeds by standing up for our values, not shirking them, and leads by engaging peoples and societies, the sources of legitimacy, not governments alone.” In that article, she called Kissinger, who had been a practitioner of a bloody foreign-policy realpolitik, “surprisingly idealistic.” http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/02/hillary-clinton-kissinger-vacation-dominican-republic-de-la-renta

          • oikos
          • Bill_Perdue

            Dunce. Democrat.”In 1996, the Clinton administration and congressional Republicans worked hand in hand to pass what they called the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act, colloquially known as “welfare reform.”

            The legislation famously “ended welfare as we know it,” replacing Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) with Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF). The newly-created TANF placed a time limit on how long the federal government would extend financial assistance to poor families.

            Kasich was one of the legislation’s prime movers. After clashes between Clinton and the Republicans over earlier versions of the bill, Kasich introduced what went on to become the final legislation in June 1996. By late July, the administration and the Republicans had solved their disagreements, and a conference bill coasted to passage by a 328-101 vote. http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/02/13/john-kasich-and-clintons-collaborated-law-helped-double-extreme-poverty

          • oikos

            Bill Perdue is RW troll who comes here and calls all of us fascists and murderers and tells us we shouldn’t vote for anyone and that will magically change things for the better. He only attacks democrats and never republicans. He hates Bernie and Hillary but never says much of anything about the clusterfuck that is the repuglican party.
            The only bullying going on is his constant attacks on JMG posters and his cut and paste nonsense.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Oikos, like Trump, won’t den ounce racists. Trumps are the KKK and David Duke, oikos won’t denounce this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALXulk0T8cg

          • oikos

            ..

          • Bill_Perdue

            Dunce who refuses, like Trump, to reject racism.

          • Treant

            Hey, I sometimes give away a free fuck just for the fuck of it. While I don’t go down the street with a bucket of fucks, either, I do carry a pocketful.

          • 5moreminutes*imtired

            Bill is a special kind of awful, constantly posting drivel to the benefit of no one. Not even himself. And he’s damn pissed off about it too.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Psycho babble from a coward who supports this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dY77j6uBHI

          • 5moreminutes*imtired

            Exhibit A

          • Bill_Perdue

            Racists don’t denounce other racists.

          • 5moreminutes*imtired

            Exhibit B

          • Bill_Perdue

            Racists don’t denounce other racists.

          • Bad Tom

            Actually, BP constantly bullies us.
            Naturally, his comment history is private.

            He also loves to cut-n-paste cut-n-paste cut-n-paste cut-n-paste.

            Try engaging him. You’ll see. Heh.

        • Bill_Perdue

          Another non political comment.

  • sword

    In the US, top-down politics just doesn’t work. Bernie feels that his ideas are so good and powerful that when he is President that Congress will fall all over themselves passing his laws. Congress is now in the hands of the Tea Party, because they decided 20 years ago, to start with local politics, fill state legislatures and then win Congress…one of the reasons that Obama has been nearly incapable of getting much legislation passed during his second term.
    Sanders needed to start his campaign while Bill Clinton was in office, not 18 months before the 2016 elections.

    • Ninja0980

      Indeed, not to mention our base doesn’t turn out for mid term elections or simply stays home if the candidate isn’t 100% pure, something Republicans never do.

  • Alan43

    FiveThirtyEight says the path to a nomination for Bernie is getting very narrow.

    But I think he’s already achieved his goal, even the GOP is talking about economic inequality now

    • studd55

      And them talking about it is about as believable as Hillary talking about it.

  • Skeptical_Inquirer

    I wish people would just admit Hillary needs to run a better campaign rather than blame an opponent for existing. Ba ck in 2008, I did not have a preference between her and Obama but I could tell her campaigning was problematic. Whatever the problem with her campaign, that is on her.

    • danolgb

      If she’s winning against the savior Bernie, wouldn’t that, by definition, mean she’s running a better campaign?

    • Lazycrockett

      There was issues with Iowa and NH but she seemed to have focused her message afterwards and seems to be relaxed and happier since her win in Nevada.

    • joe ho

      Nate Silver ‏@NateSilver538 Feb 27

      Nate Silver Retweeted Jonathan Bernstein

      Agree. Hillary Clinton’s political skills are badly underrated. Lots of premature “Clinton in disarray!” stories. Nate Silver added,

      Jonathan Bernstein @jbview

      Overall, though: Hillary Clinton is a great politician, and the people who have been saying otherwise are IMO dead wrong.

      549 retweets 999 likes

      Reply

    • Friday

      Uh, projecting won’t work here. In fact *Bernie himself* isn’t even doing that, ….it’s just that pointing out he problems loudly and saying how things *should* be isn’t about a process of how to fix things and have it work at every given point.

      Hillary sure isn’t ‘Blaming Bernie for existing,’ …she’s saying she’s got the tool kit to get more of that done, and getting support for her *policies.* Frankly, it’s Bernie’s *supporters* that I think are being destructive enough about things that I’m getting talked *out* of a primary vote for him anyway. (I favor Hillary actually but it’s looking like this state will be another South Carolina and I wouldn’t be above helping with reminding her of the progressive base under these circumstances.)

      No one *wants* a ‘Coronation’ ….but I’m really not interested in dragging *this* noise out when we’ve just got to make legislative gains and simply can’t *afford* to hand Republicans the signature pen or the military codes. We lose that we could lose it all, and this election is ours to lose, even if of course we’re all angry at the way things are.

      • Skeptical_Inquirer

        I hear people going on and on about how Bernie should just gracefully move out of the way. I am talking about Hillary supporters rather than her personally. If she is so great then why are her fans sweating it so much if they think of Bernie as easy roadkill. Just let it roll out.

        If you do not like Bernie, that is fine but man I am so very tired of the whole “get inline! Get in line!” If/when she gets the norm, then I will vote for her. Hard sells in real life is what make me hang up the phone or run from the mall kiosk.

        • Friday

          Uh, cause, no, those aren’t the terms that you’re apparently projecting? There is no ‘sweating’ or wanting ‘roadkill’ or ‘Get in line!’ here, ….never mind some anti-Bernie ‘Hard Sell,’ …it’s more that Bernie’s supporters and those posing as them are being used for *counterproductive* activities at this point. I don’t *want* him to ‘shut up and go away,’ …it’s just that his ‘support’ is already down to being destructive just when that’s the last thing we need right now. This ‘competetive’ thing when there kind of *is* none at this point isn’t changing the realities that are there to be dealt with.

          Frankly I do think he’ll soon have to either step up his message in a productive way, or simply get on with his campaign *explaining* what is good about ‘social democracy’ and what it really means, and, if he’s realistic, throwing votes away at him, never mind acrimony on his behalf, is only gonna make it worse.

        • Friday

          Also, I happen to love Bernie, I just don’t think he’s the guy for this job, or to even hope to *get* the job, this election.

  • Lazycrockett

    All the polls Ive seen today have Hillary pulling further and further ahead except in Vermont. Could be a blood bath.

    • joe ho

      The sooner the party coalesces in order to face Trump, the better.

      • Robert

        Yeah, but what happens when we coalesce around her and then she is indicted over her email crap?

        • danolgb

          There’s no indictment coming. Just as there was no wrongdoing in Benghazi. Stop believing right wing propaganda.

        • joe ho

          lol.

          gop talking points. none of the emails were classified at the time.

          she’s been the target for three decades. she’s still standing.

          you think the us will elect a conscientious objector as commander of chief of the free world?

    • MickinDetroit

      vermont is as irrelevant as Iowa though. I’m so tired of hearing outsized relevance placed on nomination contests in tiny states with a homogenous populations the size of a small city. If she loses Florida or heck Michigan…we can talk about feeling the bern, but I could give a fuck if vermont is a blood bath.

      • Friday

        Credit where it’s due, Vermont isn’t *actually* as ‘homogenous’ as people claim. Yeah, it’s all on a smaller *scale,* but it’s not just a bunch of quaint towns full of white people selling antiques and lift tickets, either.

        • MickinDetroit

          is there a state LESS diverse than vermont? isn’t it 95% white and 85% rural?

          • Friday

            Pretty sure you ain’t seen Burlington or Brattleboro. There may not have been a big influx of African Americans at any particular historical point, but it’s not just about ‘black or white’ either. (Diversity means *diversity,* not ‘How many Polish/whatever particular’ people in particular live here,’ anyway, come down to it. ) Actually there’s quite a bit of religious, ethnic, economic, and political diversity there. Particularly in Burlington. (Last I’d heard from Brattleboro a few years ago things were pretty hard there, for various reasons. I was looking at various statistics last time it seemed I might have a chance to get back to New England. There’s a lot of variables there, let’s say.

  • joe ho

    ””’

    • danolgb

      Now this is spam I can get behind.. or in front of. I’m versatile.

  • OZ_in_TX

    The pious ‘Well Bernie brought needed discussion’ hand-wringing pablum on this thread would be funny if it wasn’t so ridiculous. Assuming $hillary gets the nomination, every single issue that Bernie ‘brought up for discussion’ will be drowned out in a sea of ‘PARTY UNITY!!!’ and ‘WE CAN’T LET TRUMP DIVIDE US!!!’ hysteria. Her supporters will *happily* forget every single issue that Bernie ‘brought up for discussion’ – just like $hillary will be happy to do. And her supporters will continue to support her as she tacks back to the center-right.

    Authorizing sweetheart weapons deals to countries that donated to the Clinton Foundation? Her Campaign CFO – Gary Gensler – being a former chief of Finance at *Goldman Sachs* and a champion for the very deregulation that led to the Crash of 2008? Dan Beksha, who currently runs $hillary’s ‘Budget Team’ works in the Securities Division of *Goldman Sachs* in Cross Asset Sales? David Brock, who is a millionaire and one of $hillary’s biggest campaign donors buying up Blue Nation Review so that she now has her own paid-for media platforms? Nah, none of that… and all the other Wall Street players backing her ‘progressive campaign’ matters – and we won’t even be able to *talk* about it over the tidal wave of ‘PARTY UNITY!!!’ and ‘WE CAN’T LET TRUMP DIVIDE US!!!’ hysteria.

    So that’s nice – all the ‘well Bernie brought issues we need to discuss’ hand wringing… really, it is. But we *know* a ‘let’s just throw our opponents a bone’ tactic when we see it… and we *know* that if $hillary gets the nomination, all those ‘issues to discuss’ will be quickly – EAGERLY – forgotten and ignored.

    • Friday

      Bernie would have the same problem the Obama administration did about the securities and Wall Street problems: the only ones who really know how it works are the same ones who freaking gamed the system in the first place. Frankly, I can barely figure out a spreadsheet and I look like a freaking *genius* at macroeconomics compared to most of my Bernie-supporting friends. (Who of course are smart people in their own ways, but people don’t *learn* that derivatives-finagling cause they want to live by the sweat of their brows or live progressive ideals. So who *are* you gonna get to do that without offering a better deal when you can’t get the damn appointments or appropriations though a Teabagged legislature?

  • oh boy

  • Treant

    It seems a bit early to put Sanders in his political grave just yet. It’s only Monday, after all.

    If Clinton walks out of tomorrow ahead by more than 100 delegates, then you should worry about the Sanders campaign. That’s almost impossible to make up in later states–and if it holds or grows wider through March 15th, that’s a severe problem. Half the delegates are assigned by that time.

    It certainly looks very bad for Sanders tomorrow and through the 15th, but sometimes things change.

  • Max_1

    Dearest Politico,
    What is a Democracy when there is but one choice?

    https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/702996635492548608

    • joe ho

      lol.

      Stop with the victimhood narrative.

      There are two choices: Hillary vs. Sanders.

      Pundits? Ever notice how almost all of the pundits were anti-Trump ever since he announced and yet he’s still winning?

    • Friday

      Well, Senator, I don’t suppose that ‘seeming’ could *possibly* have to do with them needing to look beyond basically a single very nice sales pitch? They pay attention to *how* stuff works, (or doesn’t) for an alleged living… apart from obvious biases, which apply to this whole circus in general for the most part, what have you done to impress them?

  • kladinvt

    And once again, I sincerely ask Hillary supporters, without referring to her resume again, or that we must all vote against republicans, to name a few of Hillary’s proposals that excite you and that you believe will excite the electorate to come out and vote for her in November.

    If I’m going to be stuck voting for her, it would be nice to know something positive and noteworthy to vote “for her”, rather than “just voting against” her republican opponent.

    • danolgb

      How about that after 20ish years of standing up to Republicans, she’s still standing with poise. She can put up with eleven hours of partisan grilling and still maintain her composure. To me that’s pretty damned inspiring.

    • Friday

      I think she ‘proposes’ to stand up to Putin and China and everyone else liable to get bigger eyes without handing the Right everything they want about the military on the backs of soldiers, another damn war for the Fundies, or thinking unilateral disarmament will cause money to appear when we’ve already lost too much of our manufacturing base for other things anyway.

      Gods, I realize that ‘liberal purity’ is supposed to mean no one should want there to be any war whatsoever, but if I hear one more Bernie supporter complaining about the sixty-year cost of something that’s going to replace two thirds of our aging air power without comparing that cost to keeping what we have in the air till it breaks…… Sure, bitch about something big cause it goes ‘bang,’ but even with corporations having been milking it and over-promising, that’s not actually where the money’s been wasted.

      No, you can’t do everything with air power, (Not that that means Dubya’s invasions were a good idea, especially since he *screwed them up,* ) ….but we’re a little spoiled about taking it for granted in recent decades, and other powers ain’t standing still. Thing about air (and sea) power is, …it’d be a whole different world already if we didn’t *have* it.

      You’d think a lot of we LGBT lefties would remember that it’s one thing not to go looking for a fight, ….but you live in a whole different world that ain’t even much good for your income prospects if you can *get pushed around.*

      There’s bad people in the world. Too many of them have an (R-) in front of their names in *our* country, …that doesn’t mean you want to find out what we get economically with what we have here if some *other* power’s equivalents see a circumstance where it’s easier and more profitable for *them* just to *take* stuff. People miss that about ISIL, too.

      They were making money hand over fist with all they were doing and taking, till among other things, Obama blew up their *cash* with one of those weapon systems.

  • Zollergasse

    Bottom line: any of you who refuse to vote for the Democratic candidate in November is a petulant fool.

    • Skeptical_Inquirer

      Most will vote for her but nobody should be told that their real issues do not matter. If a Big Short type bubble bursts on her watch, the Democratic Party may face a shitstorm like the one the GOP is facing.

  • I’m going to take this opportunity to vent about both Bernie and Hillary supporters.

    I’ve seen some messed up bullshit in my time, but watching white people argue about which white candidate is better for black voters, as if black voters aren’t smart enough to decide that for themselves leads me to believe that the right has a point about the dangers of identify politics. How about we debate the issues where Clinton and Sanders disagree and admit that they are about the same or race, gay rights, and women’s health.

    Rant over.

    • Friday

      Oh, get off it. It’s nothing to do with ‘how smart’ *any* voter demographic is. *Any* group is smart enough to actually get informed and involved, but that doesn’t actually describe a whole lot of ‘groups’ in much proportion in the first place… That’s why the campaign is already raving stupidity on the GOP side. I got a housemate who’s been working too long of hours to have even *heard* much about what’s going on. This is about what *does* get presented as the choices when it comes down to it, not thinking some race or sex or anything is *stupid* for not having anything to judge on in particular.

  • Larry Ft Pierce

    The sooner Sanders’ campaign ends, the sooner his supporters will recover from their disappointment. No insult intended here…. just that they will have more time to be persuaded to vote for Secretary Clinton.

    • Friday

      Frankly, they need to be out there selling the *ideas* rather than just trying to stoke ‘Anti-Hillary’ resentment as if that is somehow helpful to anyone but Trump or right-wing maniacs at this point.

  • JCF

    Argh, TOO MUCH IN-FIGHTING between Clinton and Sanders supporters on this thread! Is.Not.Funny!!!

    • Steven Leahy

      Agree, I will be glad when this is all over.

  • stanhope

    I like Bernie but every time I look at him…I get the same feeling I had with Jeb Bush summed up in an old Nancy Wilson song….when you look into his eyes and he turns away, when you’re at a corner table, and there isn’t much to say…..you’d better face it girl…..it’s over!

  • dwieboldt

    Jesus Christ, all angels and arch-angels and Buddha, Clinton and Sanders folks better effing get smart, or we’ll have Trump or Cruz appointing Supreme Court Justices left and right. Do you really think it worth it to go back to the 1940’s out of spite?…