Ali Forney Center To Pope: We’re Not Sinners [VIDEO]

Clip recap: “Over 200,000 LGBT youths are homeless in America. The biggest reason LGBT youths cannot remain in their homes is due to the religious beliefs of their parents. Watch brave clients of the Ali Forney Center describe the abuse and rejection they suffered. Every child deserves to be loved.”

  • crewman

    What probably hurt me the worst is when someone tells me that my God does not love me or that my God is not happy with me

    Kim Davis

    • Ginger Snap

      crewman, there is nothing else to be said.

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  • Lumpy Gaga

    OTOH, Covenant House was not exactly a smashing success for gay homeless youth. Howzabout the Holy See stop sucking at the teat of providing outsourced social services which could be better handled by a taxpaying private sector bound by anti-discrimination law???

    • BobSF_94117

      Catholic Charities wins grants because they’re better equipped and, more importantly to the taxpayer, less expensive than the private sector. Catholic charity operations tend to be run by very liberal people, as evidenced by unanimous opposition of the boards of directors to anti-gay policies imposed by archbishops in SF, Boston, and NY. The staff is often even more liberal. The only really offensive thing CC does — and again, it’s usually the archbishops, not the organizations themselves — is try to give the impression that the work they do is paid for by them, as opposed to being mostly paid for by federal and local grants.

      • Lumpy Gaga

        Catholic Charities wins grants because they’re better equipped and, more
        importantly to the taxpayer, less expensive than the private sector.

        Cults do seem to attract cheap labor.

  • Steven Leahy

    Appreciate the efforts in this video ,but unfortunately these stories were lost on him yesterday, they’re lost on him today, and will be lost on him tomorrow.

    • Blake Jordan

      More proof is needed to show this pope hates us as much as his predecessors, so the misinformed do not think he has a heart.

      • JDM

        If you genuinely think this, you’re as extreme as any member of ISIS or Al-Qaeda.

        • Todd20036

          You’re proving Blake’s point, loser

          • JDM

            You have no idea what I think about the Pope, positive or negative, so no. Not really.

          • BeaverTales

            Do you work for the Advocate?

            I agree with Blake that there is far more evidence the Pope hates us gays than loves us, despite the dissembling Papal rhetoric. If you disagree, you could try showing proof why Blake’s wrong instead of going for some ridiculous ISIS ad hominem.

          • JDM

            You mean like the ad hominem that was used in “The Pope wants all gays dead and to burn in Hell”? That ad hominem?

          • BeaverTales

            Does it bother you that he almost never criticizes the many members of his church who are committed to taking away our rights and who even suggest genocide as a fix to the “gay problem”… and saves his criticism for Catholics who support a woman’s right to reproductive freedom or our secular right to marry is friendly to LGBT rights?

            It’s the truth, not an ad hominem. Wake up….he is not even remotely a friend to the gay community. If you have a good counterargument, I’m sure I’m not the only one anxious to hear it.

          • JDM

            With all due respect, I don’t think the Pope even knows who Waleed Shoebat is. He doesn’t strike me as a WND kind of reader.

            “He saves his criticism for Catholics who support a woman’s right to freedom…” Did you watch the address to the joint session of Congress? Do you remember the four people that he pointed out AND PRAISED? One of them was Dorothy Day. If you don’t know who she is, look her up. She was a socialist, anarchist, and it’s widely known that she had an abortion when she was a young woman. If he’s so against abortion, why choose her? It doesn’t make any sense.

          • Todd20036

            “If you genuinely think this, you’re as extreme as any member of ISIS…”

            Yeah, I think I can safely say you are one to kiss the pope’s ring even as he stabs you in the back, Quisling.

          • JDM

            That’s why they don’t pay you to think. I’m not even a Catholic, you moron.

          • Schlukitz

            Name-calling is not a cogent argument.

            Please keep it civil.

          • JDM

            Assuming something about me that happens to be FALSE without even bothering to ask isn’t cogent either. This whole “civil” thing works both ways.

          • Schlukitz

            I assumed nothing.

            You called Todd2036 a “moron”.

            That is NOT civil, at least the way I was raised.

          • JDM

            I wasn’t talking about you, sugar tits. Loosen the fuck up, try actually following the thread and see who I was responding to, and then compose a response.

          • Schlukitz

            Ad hominem attacks, name calling and and cursing at people is not my idea of a conversation.

            I tried to be respectful, civil and polite in responses to you. You have adequately demonstrated that you are either incapable of or unwilling to show the same respect, civility and politeness t others. No matter how one looks at this, you are not a very nice person.

            I am done with you.

            But don’t let that stop you from babbling on. I’m certain that you will want to get the last insult in…and that’s just peachy-keeno with me.

          • JDM

            I have been civil and respectful – to you. I’m not the same to everyone else. If you think that I was calling you names, you need to RE-READ the thread, as I told you to do, and realize it wasn’t you I was calling stupid. If you’re unwilling or too proud to do that, maybe the idiot to whom I was referring has company. Good day.

        • Blake Jordan

          Huh???

  • zhera

    How DARE they demand compassion from ‘God’s representative on Earth’. Don’t they know he’s busy doing ‘God’s work’?

    • WNY

      Yeah, he has professional athletic teams that he has to help win games and ‘artists’ rapping about their bitches & hoes that he has to help win their grammies and AMA awards.

  • RobynWatts

    Exactly! This is exactly what I been try to tell our straight allies! Despite Pope Francis’s so-called progressive stances, he still sees us as not worthy of being a part of his church or religion! When I try to bring that point up, I just get excuses for his words and actions!

    With “friends” like these…….

    • Lumpy Gaga

      It’s like Taylor Swift or Madonna fans. Picking an argument with them while she’s ON TOUR is just a bad idea.

    • joe ho

      he’s even more dangerous because he’s trying to attach a smiling face and a friendly wave to his church’s vile teachings about homosexuality.

      • Lumpy Gaga

        To be completely fair, that dirty work is outsourced to the friendly folks at the World Family of Families who Family, and their ilk. And because it is so underhanded, it is simply that much more disgusting. Take it a step further, and you have cafeteria Catholics with gay best friends. Our mission, should we choose to accept it, is to decide which is more evil and underhanded.

        Or as I call it, Fun With Dogwhistles.

      • Ninja0980

        Indeed, I’ve always said the most dangerous bigots aren’t the ones like Tony Perkins etc, it’s the ones like the Pope who sound so friendly and nice they make the anti-gay talking points they are pushing not seem so anti-gay when they are.

      • DonnaLee

        And he is doing some good with not being anti-science, but he is still not saying women can do what they want with their bodies.

  • joe ho

    Don’t be fooled by this wolf in sheep’s clothing. He’s more dangerous than his predecessors because he’s trying to use a smile and a wave to hide the horror of the church’s teachings about homosexuality.

    Pope, in Philippines, says same-sex marriage threatens family
    By Francis X. Rocca Catholic News Service
    1.16.2015 12:00 AM ET

    http://www.catholicnews.com/services/englishnews/2015/pope-in-philippines-says-same-sex-marriage-threatens-family.cfm

    Catechism of the Catholic Church:

    2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great varietyof forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of gravedepravity,140 tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.”141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do notproceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

    2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

    • oikos

      I’ve angered a bunch of people I know saying the same things. I get accused of being intolerant and excuses like ‘He’s only one person’ “He can’t change an entire institution’ “Give him time he just started’ and ‘his message is more important than what he does’
      To which I have called bullshit. He is allegedly his imaginary friend’s emissary on earth. He could turn over every pedo priest to the authorities in every country. He could fire all those who colluded to cover it up. He could stop bashing gays.
      I agree he is very dangerous. He is far better at PR than his predecessors and able to sell the same 11th century hate to a modern audience with a smile. All of this is to grift the sheeple as this country sends the majority of the operating budget for the Vatican to Rome.

      • joe ho

        Natural law theory is the very basis for catholic morality. There’s virtually no way they will ever get homosexual sex acts to be acceptable in that framework since all sexuality must be guided toward the marital reproductive act.

        And if he were really interested in softening the church’s homophobia, he could lay off the hyperbolic remarks about the threat posed by marriage equality. But he hasn’t and he’s not.

        In his address to congress he had to resort to using anti-gay marriage dog whistles since he wasn’t in the third-world and couldn’t speak more explicitly.

        • GanymedeRenard

          Exactly. And, since “natural law” is a theory – not even that: a hypothesis – their claims have no validity whatsoever.

          • joe ho

            what can you expect from people who think a 2000 year old dead jew on a stick has magic powers?

          • GanymedeRenard

            “Those who can make you believe in absurdities, can make you commit atrocities”. Voltaire.

          • AJ Drew

            Amen! oh… um… Yeah, what Voltaire said!

          • Judas Peckerwood

            Ha!

          • CCleverly

            Yeah… MEN 🙂

          • NedFlaherty

            The Vatican’s “Natural Law” proposal is never a scientific theory, and it is never a scientific hypothesis. It is nothing but a Roman Catholic religious superstition. That’s why it was never proven, and will always remain unprovable.

            The “Natural Law” myth is why Roman Catholic doctrine defines marriage as solely about mixed-gender couple procreation, breeding, and animal husbandry.

      • GanymedeRenard

        If pontiffs can excommunicate angels (so they claim) and declare new dogmas, they sure can fix the Catechism and modify their doctrine.

      • Stev84

        He could, but he probably would find himself assassinated soon after.

        • oikos

          Then his suffering would make jeebus happy.

        • Steve Teeter

          Isn’t that why he lives in a Vatican guest house? There are always people around, making it hard for an assassin to slip in. But if he slept in the Papal Apartments in the Papal Palace he would be sleeping alone, with no one near by. Dangerous.

      • CottonBlimp

        The “he’s only one person” kind of excuses bother me the most. It’s like they’re basically acknowledging that Catholicism is so fundamentally evil that even the greatest, most wonderful Pope (in their eyes) can’t do anything to fix it. Then why is it admirable to try to reform it?

        • Steven Leahy

          Agree. He’s their fucking leader. He has IMMENSE power to drive and effect real change.

          • GC

            The most immense possible reform would be to borrow from Alan Perlman’s suggested pipe-dream draft of Pope Benedict’s retirement speech: http://atheistnexus.org/profiles/blogs/speechwriting-for-the-pope-suggested-draft-farewell-remarks

            …I envision him appearing on the familiar balcony, dressed very sharply in an Armani business suit, tie by Joseph Abboud. Gone are the fancy, gay-looking brocades. No cute skullcap or clunky bishop’s miter either. No headgear at all, in fact.
            …The audience is aghast. When they are at last silent, the Pope says:
            My brothers and sisters, thank you for coming, and bless you all. I am retiring because something wonderful and miraculous has happened to me, and it is entirely appropriate that I inform my flock of my revelation.
            […]
            …I now proclaim the transformation and commitment of the Catholic Church to a new, humanistic Christianity, one that honors, above all things, human dignity, human individuality, and human choice. …
            […]

            (read more)

      • Steven Leahy

        I think you nailed it and said it better than many of us in your last paragraph.

        He IS better at PR….in fact he’s a master of it.

        NOTHING has materially changed.

        • Gay Fordham Prep Grad

          Well, out and proud Mo Rocca was the first reader at the Madison Sq. Garden mass. I doubt he would have been approved to read before any prior pope.

          • Steven Leahy

            When he materially supports LGBT issues, he’ll have more credibility with me. He doesn’t, and he talks out of both sides of his mouth depending on who’s listening. Letting someone read at a mass doesn’t amount to much.

      • Schlukitz

        You know the old expression.

        “The truth hurts.”

    • Mark

      If we sit around and wait for the RCC to change their message – I’m afraid most of us will be insanely old or dead by then. In the meantime, we have kids living in absolute hell, being abused, and/or committing suicide.

      Fuck the church. We don’t have the luxury of waiting for hell to freeze over.

      • joe ho

        exactly. people need to get over the church entirely and expose it for the vile anti-gay monstrosity that it is. lgbt catholics who try to defend it hoping it will change are sad creatures indeed.

      • Schlukitz

        Well, I certainly grew insanely old waiting for that to happen. 79 years worth, in fact. LOL

    • Yo’ Verbiage Has Been Declined

      I’m a say “No!”

    • Schlukitz

      I do believe that the great majority of those who come to JMG, myself included, are not fooled for even one moment by this manipulator of smoke and mirrors.

      We’ll leave that to the apologists like JDM. 🙂

  • Ninja0980

    This “new and improved” Pope is just as bigoted as the rest of them.
    Simply look what he did in Argentina for proof of that.
    A bigot who tells you with a smile that you are going to burn in hell is sill a bigot, and that is what Pope Francis is.

    • joe ho

      and it’s really sad to see the lgbt christers who come here shooting their wad over him because they’ve been fooled by his double-talk into thinking he’s less homophobic than his predecessors. what they’re really doing is validating the church’s anti-gay bigotry. very self-defeating and self-destructive.

      • Ninja0980

        Indeed, they say he is singing a different tune but that’s because they aren’t listening to his lyrics very well.
        If they did, they’d realize the notes haven’t changed at all.

      • DaddyRay

        The only reason I like him is because he is pissing off republicans with his immigration and climate change talk

        • joe ho

          true. but his insidious plan to try to disguise the church’s vile anti-gay bigotry is very dangerous indeed, and, in the long run, its implications for gay rights are much more important than his temporarily annoying the gop.

          • DaddyRay

            agreed

        • Prixator

          Don’t forget the anti-capitalism talk! (It’s not really anti-capitalism, but it still “harshes their buzz” (as the hip Gops say)).

      • Schlukitz

        Amen, joe ho.

        They are worse than the gay log cabin republicans.

    • Steve Teeter

      Even if I thought he looked kindly on us gays — which I don’t — there’s very little he could do. He could make a pronouncement, but that would not and could not change the minds of thousands of cardinals and bishops and priests who would disagree with him. He simply doesn’t have that power. He would be asking them to go against what they understand Holy Scripture to be, and they won’t do that.

      Another reason I’m not a Catholic. Or a Christian.

      • Steve, I do find it odd though that you write “Holy Scripture” giving that nonsense importance and weight instead of holy (or better yet holey) scripture (or scribble) the same goes for catholic and christian. I also find it odd when atheists capitalize “god” as if there actually is one, but they don’t really believe in Him or her or it…

        • Schlukitz

          Fence-sitting perhaps? LOL

          • Steve Teeter

            No, it’s just the convention of the language. Besides, I was talking about what they believe, so why shouldn’t I write it the way they would?

  • Sam_Handwich

    somewhat on topic

    my hubby and i were just driving home from the store, listening to This American Life on public radio. …and they were replaying a segment featuring Dan Savage talking about his mother’s death and his catholic upbringing. i found it on the youtubes ….very witty and also touching, if you have a few spare minutes….

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADDo5PT_ToI

    • Shy Guy

      Thanks for that. I’d read this story in his book, but not heard him talk about it in person.

      I wish the people denouncing Dan Savage as the rabidly anti-christian spawn of satan (most recently while bitching about the rainbow Doritos donating to It Gets Better) would watch this.

      Of course they never will.

      • Steven Leahy

        I think it shows how most of us who are anti-christiaNIST and anti-IslaMIST really feel.

        Look, I have no problem with anyone believing what he/she wants. I have no problem their building churches, engaging in sacraments, whatever. If it gives them comfort and peace, more power to them.

        I *DO* have a problem with religionists using religion as a tool to marginalize, vilify, even criminalize, or influence law to exclude people from having rights – especially those they themselves enjoy. I have a problem with religionists having special privilege under the law. I have a problem with religionists who feel the need to insert and inject their religion into public and private life.

        If they could just keep themselves from doing the things mentioned in my last paragraph, we would be GOOD.

        • Schlukitz

          Precisely.

        • I know “more power to them” is just a turn of phrase, but the problem is that they already have too much power.

    • DonnaLee

      I have always enjoyed watching Dan, now I feel he is a wonderful man.

    • that just makes me all the more glad to have been raised as an atheist. goodness, what baggage. i’m glad Dan can end that monologue with “i’m not a xtian” but that was a lot of personal stuff to have to go thru to get there.

      for me it’s just “you believe what? that’s silly. now, let’s move on to the reality of why we are all equal.”

  • Ninja0980

    On a personal note, I knew back in high school that nothing I could do or say would change the church’s mind that LGBT people are sinners who deserve to burn in hell unless they live a lonely sexless life or enter a sham marriage with someone of the opposite sex.
    It’s why I left the church while I was still in high school and never looked back.

    • Lumpy Gaga

      Yeah, when I figured out the extent and activity wrt abortion, is when I tapped out myself: shortly into a Jesuit high-school education which spent a lot of time on indoctrination on the subject. (Oddly enough, they didn’t touch teh homo with a ten-foot pole. Took me some time to figure out why…)

      Faith (or lack thereof) had nothing to do with it. I figured I had a lifetime to figure that out. No way was I gonna vote with my body’s presence in the pews. As the old saying goes, “It only encourages them.”

  • geoffalnutt

    It’s the benign, obsequious, fake ‘smiling’ that’s so dangerous. Nothing has changed except hate is wearing that smile. Beware.

  • Ginger Snap

    Falling on def ears of the rich, child raping, God loving Catholics.

  • Mark

    I watch clips like this – and end up thinking to myself how selfish I am. I live alone. 3 bedrooms. 3.5 acres. It’s no palatial estate, but there is plenty of room here for one – even two of these kids to be off the streets. A safe place they can live and grow.

    And as the opening of that door plays out – the ‘fear’ of situations and problems begins to rear its ugly head. Within a couple minutes, I just let it fade.

    I would suspect there are other eldergays with similar thought. Many of these kids just need a roof over their head, maybe even someone they can see as a ‘parent’. And it’s my nature to want to help – and yet it seems that effort is relegated to writing a check when i can. Help from a distance. We never know who it helps.

    For those of us without kids – I would jump at the chance to mentor one or two of these kids. And then…the fucking evil hand of the world would lob their accusations of sex. You know it could happen sooner or later. And you’re back down to writing a check.

    Many of us have incredible skill sets and other resources that can be shared with these kids to get them started. And all of that can be hideously ruined with just one accusation.

    And it just seems that so much resource ends up to zilch.

    • AJ Drew

      Everything you wrote is potentially true, and I *think* you were being sincere, but… if you really want to help young’uns, you don’t have to adopt them, you can support the folks who *are* willing to risk “the fucking evil hand of the world.” Downsize, sell an acre, send the proceeds along… you’ll stay safely out of the line of fire while still helping.

      • Mark

        AJ – Cashing out assets is not the best use of the resource.

    • that’s pretty much us. we’d love to do more, right here in our community. we were just talking about it the other day. we smoke pot and drink sometimes, and we’re not married or going to be… and could not “succeed” in the process of how the state determines who could take in a child.

      i have serious, professional skills in mentoring and education. which is why i know: they would laugh us out of the foster care or adoption office, once they learned about our “evil lifestyle.”

  • Joseph Miceli

    Good luck with that…but I still give to the Ali Forney Center and I always start at Amazon from the Ali Forney “Smile” page. http://smile.amazon.com/

    • Steven Leahy

      I do the “Smile” thing on Amazon too 🙂 Jut wondering why it keeps asking me if I want to go to “Smile” every time I log in!

      • johncAtl

        Bookmark smile.amazon.com, or I just type the first couple of letters and Safari finishes it.

  • Lumpy Gaga

    Speaking of Popemania, a group of (uncharacteristically adorable) teens who made the schlep to Philly from Kentucky ended up with 8th-row seats to the Big Mass on Sunday, courtesy the last-minute generosity of the WMOF.

    Translation: those VIP packages didn’t exactly sell like hotcakes.

  • joe ho

    …..

  • Sam_Handwich

    o/t

    Values Voter Summit Straw poll winners: Cruz, Carson, Huckabee, Rubio and Trump.

    • DaddyRay

      Straw poll is appropriate since they are grasping at straws if they think any of their candidates can win

      • Sam_Handwich

        Cruz 35%
        Carson 18%
        Huckabee 14%
        Rubio 13%
        Trump 5%
        Frothy 4%

        • DaddyRay

          Trump to throw a tantrum in 5, 4, 3…

  • ElenorRigby

    “I love my homophobic church but….” then you’re an idiot. Leave your church. They don’t want you and you’re not welcome. Wake the Fuck Up.

    • joe ho

      stockholm syndrome

    • Sam_Handwich

      i think it’s a little more complicated than that …. see the dan savage video i posted if you have some time

      • ElenorRigby

        seen it. Still think anyone who thinks their imaginary sky man is there is an idiot. I stopped believing in faries and Santa Claus when I was about 6.

        • Sam_Handwich

          i’m with you

          others have had different experiences

          • ElenorRigby

            it’s hard tho admit your parents have been lying to you your whole life, I guess.

  • bambinoitaliano

    Let’s not forget this is a multi billion dollar multinational corporation. Having faith and believing in god cost zero dollar. There’s a reason why the religion identify all human as sinners. Every operative from the grass root through the hierarchy of every religion organization is self serving. The bigger the organization the more sins they committed. The higher the position the worst sins they commit. If god is all mighty, he already know your intention. What he sees is those who claim to be the followers are putting on a charade that has nothing to do with the scriptures. It’s all about greed for wealth, prestige and power. The rest of them know that god does not exist, they are merely in it to fleece the sheep.

  • Jan Wesselius

    This Pope isn’t any different from the other Popes before him. He is homophobic, and want the gays to die and live in the burning lake of acid in hell. With Gods love of course.

    • JDM

      That’s as facile and ignorant as saying “Obama must love having homeless people around because the country he’s in charge of has millions of them.” Seriously. Get a sense of perspective.

      • Todd20036

        Obama isnt gods emisary

        • JDM

          That changes nothing about anything I’ve written.

          • Schlukitz

            Obama has not called LGBT people “Intrinsically disordered” or uttered a word against us.

          • JDM

            He might not have uttered a word against us, but I don’t remember him waving around any pride flags and supporting gay marriage during his first term.

          • Schlukitz

            That is a weak argument that we have heard time and time again from those who would still find fault with him if he were the savior of mankind arrived in a different color skin.

            The fact is, Mr. Obama has done more for LGBT people during his presidency than any other president in the history of this country and certainly more than the Pope ever has, or ever will do to help LGBT folks.

            Please feel free to correct me if you have evidence that says otherwise.

          • JDM

            You can call it a weak argument all day long, but it’s still true that for the first four years of his presidency, Obama supported gay marriage about as much as Pope Francis currently does. I know it’s hard to recognize since you agree with his current position – but it’s history. And it needs to be acknowledged.

          • Schlukitz

            Apples and oranges, my friend.

            The fact of the matter is, Obama evolved and IS supporting gay marriage. And you need to recognize that it was under his watch that marriage equality became the law of the land.

            The Pope is still NOT supporting gay marriage and continues to rail against it.

            And the liklihood of him supporting marriage in the near future is ZERO, no matter how many countries in world evolve to recornize and support marriage equality for all of their citizens.

          • JDM

            Right. The only reason you support him is because he “evolved.” Which has been my point all along. For people like you, who don’t respect the history of the President’s positions in their fullness, those years may as well have never existed for you. But they exist for people who respect intellectual honesty.

          • Schlukitz

            Thank you for your apologist POV

          • JDM

            You could have stopped that sentence at “I have no respect for history.”

      • Jan Wesselius

        Obama doesn’t want the homeless dead as the pope want the gays dead. The Pope represents the Catholic faith. The pope has said time and again how they are an abomination to God and will be going to hell in a lake of burning acid. I don’t recall Obama saying the homeless are an abomination to God.

        • JDM

          What has the Pope written or said that would make you think that “he wants gays dead”?

          • Jan Wesselius

            Perhaps you have missed where the Pope has said that gays were an abomination to God? They will go to hell, Little stuff like that makes me think the Pope wants gays dead. Now that’s just the Catholic division of Christianity, Don’t forget the other Christian evangelicals that the Pope has ignored thus giving them credence that want the plain out right killing of gays.
            Let me explain it this way, It’s like the Pope flying a Confederate flag and stating he doesn’t like slavery. Something just doesn’t seem right.

          • JDM

            Citation? I’d especially like to know where Francis referred to gays as an “abomination to God.” Where is this? A speech? Encyclical? Where?

          • Jan Wesselius

            You need to do your own research, like reading JMG more often. Read Faux news a little less.

          • JDM

            So, you have none. Thanks. That’s sort of what I thought. Extremists usually have no leg to stand on, but they usually don’t admit it so readily.

          • Schlukitz

            Pope Francis said as much with this statement.

            “Pope Francis is a conservative who is anti-gay marriage and anti-gay adoption. He has described same-sex marriage as the work of the devil and a “destructive attack on God’s plan.” He has also said that gay adoption is a form of discrimination against children.

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/13/pope-francis-gay-marriage-anti_n_2869221.html

          • JDM

            I don’t see the words “abomination to God” anywhere in that article, or any article that it links to. I’m fully aware that he doesn’t support gay marriage. I’m fully away that he thinks it’s against the natural order. “Abomination”? I’ve never him use that word in reference to gay marriage. And I’ve been following the man since he was an archbishop back in Buenos Aires. I’ve heard hundreds of his sermons and follow his ex cathedra writings carefully. Never have I seen the word “abomination” used in reference to homosexuality – not once.

          • Schlukitz

            He hasn’t specifically used the term “queers”, “cocksuckers” or “butt-fuckers” either… but that doesn’t mean that he and his followers do not think of us in those terms or accuse us of those things in equally degrading terms like “Intrinsically disordered”, and the like.

            a·bom·i·na·tion
            əˌbäməˈnāSH(ə)n/
            noun
            a thing that causes disgust or hatred.
            “this bill is an abomination to all mankind”
            synonyms: atrocity, disgrace, horror, obscenity, outrage, evil, crime, monstrosity, anathema, bane
            “in both wars, internment was an abomination”
            a feeling of hatred.
            “their abomination of indulgence”
            synonyms: detestation, loathing, hatred, aversion, antipathy, revulsion, repugnance, abhorrence, odium, execration, disgust, horror, hostility
            “she looked upon his kitschy decor with abomination”

            What synonym in the above definition of an “abomination” has the RC Church and the even more outspoken Fundies NOT used to attack us with?

          • JDM

            You’re conflating “the Roman Catholic Church” with “the Pope.” I don’t care about what the Church has said. I know what they’ve said. I was asking for evidence of a VERY SPECIFIC, NARROW claim of what the person of POPE FRANCIS said – and I still haven’t been presented with it. You know why I haven’t been presented with it? Because he’s never said it.

          • Schlukitz

            Thank you for your apologist point of view.

          • JDM

            And thank YOU for complete inability to provide a citation. I had a feeling you were doing nothing but wasting my time. This is only confirmation.

        • JDM

          You have yet to prove that the Catholic Church wants anyone dead, let alone Pope Francis. I want a citation. What speech is this? What encyclical? Where does Francis call gay people an “abomination to God”?

  • JDM

    “I love my Church, but I’m ashamed of the way it’s hurting children with its teachings.” If you love it so much, why is your entire career dedicated to fighting one of its core pinciples? Maybe it’s time to stop loving it and move on.

    • Lumpy Gaga

      When Carl S. opens with “I love ya, baby…” he usually gets what he wants.

      • JDM

        I guess what he wants is to have his cake and eat it, too.

        • Lumpy Gaga

          A true Catholic, then.

          • JDM

            Then why are people giving him so much money?

    • Schlukitz

      Precisely. How can one love an institution that has for over two thousand years, been so dedicated to discrimination, racism, misogyny, bigotry, hatred and homophobia?

      What’s left to love?

      • Ginger Snap

        Money.

  • In an ideal world the parents and the Church accept and respect the children and help them learn to accept and respect themselves. But when the parents and Church are impediments, seeking their approval isn’t always the best way to go. For self acceptance it is often necessary to break away, particularly from a Church that is totally screwed up on the subject of sex, as is the Catholic Church. It’s fine to work on helping the Church see the light, but not fine for youths to wait for approval from above. What is important is that they accept themselves.

  • Claude Jacques Bonhomme

    Matthew 19:13-14

    Then people brought little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them.

    Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

    No qualifications whatsoever. Those who exclude LGBT children are cherry-picking evil hypocrites.

    • m_lp_ql_m

      It’s impossible to follow the bible and NOT cherry-pick, it’s so riddled with contradictions.

      • Schlukitz

        Just the money being spent on this ridiculous Vatican Clown show would do so much good for the 200,000 homeless LGBT children.

      • Claude Jacques Bonhomme

        Yes indeed. How could it be otherwise, in a collection of writings spanning hundreds and hundreds of years. You can find every view and its opposite.

      • Which is precisely why I call it the Wholly Babble.
        Treat others as you want to be treated? Blessed
        Kill others for not believing what you believe. Blessed
        Being poor. Blessed
        Being rich. Blessed
        Praying in private. Blessed
        Braying, I mean praying in public. Blessed
        Even the bits that people (not referring to you CJ) love to say are soooo beautiful make no sense. How can the “kingdom” of heaven belong to children? Does that mean some children never grow into adults? Or are they kicked out of the place as soon as they are not little children? And doesn’t that sound familiar!

  • Ninja0980

    Speaking of the new and “improved” pope, the bishop in my area(Syracuse) still hasnt been given the boot for his disguisting comments about how child rape victims are partially to blame for the abuse they’ve suffered.
    Where is Pope Francis on that?
    When is he truly going to stop shielding these assholes who covered up the rape of children?

    • Six Pins Delores

      As soon as church finances are secure from lawsuit.

  • BeaverTales

    “Every child deserves to be loved.”

    Probably not exactly what I would say to the head of the biggest group of organized pedophiles on the planet.

  • Ninja0980

    It’s a wasted effort.
    To this day, the “parents” of my friend who kicked out of the house when he was in high school ( he will be 30 soon) still think that if they accept their son and his husband they will burn in hell.
    There is no reasoning with folks like that, there simply isn’t.
    My friend gave up trying back in 09 and is better for it.

    • Wynter Marie Starr

      Right, but rejecting the child you gave birth to will land you in heaven. That’s some damn convoluted thinking and it pisses me off no end. People like that have moral compasses that broke long and long ago.

  • ErikDC

    I know my belief won’t be popular here, but I think most here are missing the forrest for the trees. This Pope has changed the focus of the church. Has he changed core teachings? No, he has not. However, it is quite shocking that less than 3 months after the United States legalized same-sex marriage, he has said nothing about it while visiting. He stood in front of the SCOTUS justices who made the ruling and said nothing. He stood in front of the legislative body that could overturn the ruling and said nothing. He lectured Congress about addressing climate change, poverty, even the death penalty, but said nothing when it comes to marriage. He didn’t even utter the word. His only comments on the “family” were so vague that they were essentially a Rorschach test. People saw in them whatever they wanted. Pope Francis has silenced what was the Catholic Church’s #1 political issue over the preceding decade. That’s a big F-ing deal.

    This is essentially a question of perspective. Some see the glass half empty, others see it half full. I see the change and am encouraged by it. I think it’s good news.

    • Steven Leahy

      You have a right to your opinion like the rest of us, I just strongly disagree.

      He’s very selective about what he says depending on who his audience is. He was much more forcefully anti-gay marriage in both Argentina and the Philippines and in fact has railed against any type of legalized gay civil union. He may be a little less vitriolic about gay issues when speaking to certain western audiences, but I am not quite ready to start heaping praise on him.

      • I wrote my comment before I read yours. It seems we are on the same track there with Pope Frank.

      • Schlukitz

        Neither am I.

      • Check out the ongoing discussion to this comment.

        • Steven Leahy

          I replied to your post. Well done 🙂

    • “It’s a TRAP!! Ruuuuuuunnnn!!!”

    • I’m a life long Catholic. I don’t practice it any longer, but I know enough that as far as the Catholic Church is concerned, you just don’t poke the bear. I wasn’t encouraged by the cloaked language in his speech of “traditional” and “fundamental” and families “under attack.” My issue with this pope started early on. He came out of the gate with very progressive ideals, then he started to dial it back. He also seems to be pandering to whatever crowd he’s addressing. The bottom line is this is still the multi-billion dollar Catholic church and it’s bigger than just one man. People like to believe he’s the divine leader, but in reality he’s a figure head for the power that lies within the Vatican. There is also an extraordinary amount of power in the archdioceses around the world and they aren’t going to suddenly change either. You may find pockets of welcoming Catholics here and there, but it’s not widespread. You find a parish with a young priest who overlooks issues or focuses on others, but for everyone one of them, there are a dozen hardliners who wont. Pope Frank may sound warm and fuzzy at times, but he’s still a Catholic and the paradigm isn’t going to change any time soon, especially on the issue of the role of women in the Church, marriage equality and LGBT equality.

      • Schlukitz

        Hear. Hear.

      • ErikDC

        2 of the 3 quoted words and phrases you wrote weren’t spoken by Pope Francis in his address to Congress. But regardless, most of the opposition here is simply anti-religious, not anti-Catholic. I see a lot of good in faith, even if I don’t fervently believe myself.

        • Yet I cannot hide my concern for the family, which is threatened, perhaps as never before, from within and without. Fundamental relationships are being called into question, as is the very basis of marriage and the family. I can only reiterate the importance and, above all, the richness and the beauty of family life.

          For Christ sakes, it means the same thing. Believe as you wish. Blind faith is the problem. It’s dangerous. I wonder how many of the people of faith who were moved by their interaction with the pope actually listened and were inspired to do something, such as donate to homeless LGBT youth or some other pressing need in their community, instead of blindly dropping their money over to a passing Catholic collection plate at one of the many masses?

          • Eric wrote: His only comments on the “family” were so vague that they were essentially a Rorschach test. People saw in them whatever they wanted.

            With all due respect you kind of proved his point
            For Christ sakes, it means the same thing. Believe as you wish.

          • When taken into context with everything else the man has said combined with who he is, there is no ambiguity at all. Has the news cycle suddenly changed? Am I missing some other family threatening rhetoric they’re spouting these days other than no gay adoptions, no gay marriage, no sexually active gays, no gay surrogacy? You would have to turn in your JMG card to be this naive.

          • Steven Leahy

            Like you, I grew up in a catholic family, from a strong Irish catholic tradition, and I abandoned it as a young teenager, and have never looked back.

            I dismissed this video (when you first posted it) when he said “respect needs to come from both sides of the discussion”, because whenever I hear that, it talks volumes about the speaker’s attitude, and I know where he’s going to go. I clicked on it again in your current post, and have it playing in the background, but nothing he said has any relevance or validity for me, and again, he’s full of the usual shit religious blowhards are full of.

            LOL, he wants to reduce rhetoric? He’s a master of it. I can never and will never show bigots respect or negotiate with them, because it implies moral and ethical equivalency, which they clearly do not have. More manipulating double-talk from this guy and this church, and all of his BS is really nothing more than a clever lecture to LG people to try to get us to understand the so-called “validity” of anti-LG teaching. It’s garbage. Fuck him and his condescension & patronizing bullshit.

            There is nothing we need to be “sensitive” about regarding catholics or zealots from any other religion.

            I appreciate your well thought out and well written posts on this and other topics, as usual.

          • I made it to :30 mark with the (paraphrasing here) “gay relationships will never be equal” bullshit and turned it off. I went back, as you did, and replayed it. I share your conclusions.

    • BobSF_94117

      He’s clearly not JPII or Benedict, both of whom would have been quite clear and direct in comments against gay rights.

      At the same time, while some might see what they want in his comments about family, there’s no question what they meant. There’s a whole system of language built up over decades, sometimes centuries, for much of this stuff. What he said falls squarely within standard Vaticanese. That’s not to say the glass isn’t more full these days. It’s just, perhaps, a different glass. The Church isn’t going to change its mind anytime soon, but it may stop caring so much what the rest of society does. And that would be a welcome relief.

    • Wynter Marie Starr

      I understand your point as well. One thing you have not taken into consideration (among the things mentioned by other posters) is that many people who identify as catholic by and large support rights for the LGBT community. Catholic churches are closing down at an alarming rate. This pope isn’t about to alienate catholics who may not care to come out and see him, but might hear or read about one of his speeches. The third world nations they are now mining for bodies just don’t have the money that Americans have. And that is what it comes down to.

  • Ali Forney has an Amazon wish list. It’s very easy to click and ship items that are urgently needed and will go to the kids who need them. Save the recipient. It’s tax deductible. Ali Forney also prefers McDonald’s and Starbucks gift cards. A homeless kid can use the card to make minimum purchases and stay in a warm place, sometimes over night.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/wishlist/QMLEI6NWOW47

    • skeptical_inquirer

      I think you mean save the receipt.

      • 2guysnamedjoe

        You might be saving the recipient from a rough night outdoors.

    • Ginger Snap

      You can also attach your account to their Amazon Smile program. You choose what charity(i chose Ali Forney) and every time you buy they donate. Check it out next time you are on Amazon.

  • What?

    I for one am happy that the pope is drawing attention to economic inequality, however insincere (if he sold off some of the priceless artifacts cluttering the basement of the Vatican Museum and gave the money to the poor, then I’d really believe him). But he’s reinstilling this as a value, which is important, and also exposing the hypocrisy of many in our government who seek fusion of Christianity and politics at every turn except when it means some millionaire giving up the ostentatious vacation home.

    I’m not sure why this pope mentioned marriage at all, since he knows that a vocal minority are opposed to SSM and use it to advance a general agenda which includes an increase in poverty. Homophobia produces poverty – through situations like these runaway LGBT kids and the outlawing of married gay couples, which affects income and the ability to care for children.

  • Six Pins Delores

    Carl is doing good work and I will continue to support his efforts to protect the youngsters.

  • MattM

    Sinning isn’t a real thing. Because the Christian God isn’t real. You’d think these presumed grownups would get that by now.

  • While I applaud the Ail Forney center to Alpha Centauri and beyond, we need to take a wider view of the problem. Kids in large cities have an advantage in that their parents don’t know their classmates parents for the most part, and can often sofa surf and at the very least have a place to sleep and wash. In smaller communities truly hateful parents can spread the word so that they have to run into the larger, much more dangerous cities.

    It’s time we take the Harriet Tubman approach to this problem, an underground railroad to get these kids to safety in middle sized communities. There are empty houses and stores littering our country, if congress weren’t such shit heads we could push thru a bill to give owners a tax break for hosting these centers. But if it has to be grass roots, so be it. Time to wrestle HRC down and use their black tie event budget to feed and house these children.

    • noni

      What? And give up all their gala’s and pandering to celebrities?

      No more fabulous?

      • Oh, there will always be fabulous, its a given. But the HRC could be fabulous for reasons that doesn’t have to do with trying to outspend each other on the most expensive car/tux/watch/boytoy, and instead do something wonderful with their money, saving actual lives.

  • Lumpy Gaga

    Words one should never ever ever ever EVER EVER EVER hear from a newscaster voiceover of a live event:

    “It appears that Aretha Franklin is still singing.”

    • Lumpy Gaga

      I’m upvoting myself. Godamn, what an idiot.

  • Ginger Snap

    After watching this a second time and crying I’d like to add the following comment.

    How anyone could watch this and still want to hate gay children, their own children or any child because some stupid book supposedly says to is beyond me. The hate that that fucking bible pushes is disgusting and anyone that believes anything that book says should be ashamed for propagating it’s lies.

  • Ogre Magi

    Does he honestly expect this to have any effect?

  • I think the percent of homeless LGBT youth who actually manage to stay alive after 5 years of being out on the streets is less than what many people think- I would not be surprised if as many as 40% end up dead. What sort of religion puts so much effort into prohibiting abortion- and, at the same time, is silent when children who are discarded by the parents due to their hateful teachings have such a high death rate – or end up selling their bodies simply to get some food or shelter which is a death in itself?

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  • All we can do is be vocal (or write, or make a great video), in support of the point that the so-called “moral” theology of the Roman Catholic Church (and many other Christian-IST orgnizations) is fatally flawed and disordered because it is deeply rooted in patriarchalist misogyny – this is at the root of the Church’s biggest moral blunders as they relate to sex, gender, sexuality and sexual orientation.

    While I can cheer when the Pope gets something right, I have to continue to raise my voice in criticism of the evils that he still supports.

    I am, however, also aware that there are other POVs that interpret the pope’s words differenty. And yes, on occasion, when speaking freely to reporters on the flight back to Rome from wherever he might have been, the Pope has one f those “Who am I to judge?” moments, where he might express his personal views.

    When he criticizes “gender theory,” (as he does in his recent encyclical), my take, using the Vatican-speak secret decoder ring, that he is critical of trans people. But maybe it’s not that. Maybe it’s a criticism of “gender-as-performance” theory, and not of trans people.

    When he speaks broadly about “families” the Vatican-speak decoder ring makes it clear he is speaking about “father-mother-children” families in OSM relationships. But the plain meaning of the words convinced Bennie Shapiro that the Pope was throwing in the towel on marriage equality. Bennie does not have the decoder ring.

    The ambiguity of many of the Pope’s statements is something that religionists have been doing since the days of the oracles (like the Oracle at Delphi). In retrospect, one can always seem to be “right” about whatever the topic.

    What I would like to hear, though, is a positive message stated with clarity. And that is not something I am expecting, though I can always hope.

    • What you have written is similar to what ErikDC wrote just change “decoder ring” to “Rorschach Test”.
      Is this ambiguity unique to Fran or is it something popes have been doing?
      I was raised in a catholic-lite cult (aka episcopalian) popes had no importance to me then or now. Wasn’t Benedict (how ironic that name choice was) more vocal and less ambiguous? If Fran isn’t as vitriolic as his predesessors I think that is at least a step in the right direction.

    • I’ve been responding to this issue in comments further down. The cloaked language may need a decoder ring, but as a lifelong Catholic, that update was installed in my OS years ago. I posted this video regarding one of the topics in the upcoming Synod of Bishops.

      https://vimeo.com/118060265
      You can check out other content here: http://www.synod2015.org/

      Pope Frankie seems to be more skilled at adjusting the message according to the audience. He’s better at it than Pope Bennie was and in my opinion, one of the reasons why Bennie was sent to the Old Pope’s Home. The power structure behind the pope fully knows they need to tweak the show to please the current audience. A great example of that was the recent equality vote in Ireland. Pope Frank had noting to say about it other than using cloaked language relating to the love between a man and a woman in his weekly address. However the Vatican Secretary of State, Cardinal Pietro Parolin, second in command below the pope, issued a scathing response. Contrast that with the more moderate message of the Dublin Archbishop and you can see the message adjustment system at work. The “who am I to judge” pope, the “a defeat for humanity” Vatican secretary of state and the “church needs a reality check” Dublin archbishop perfectly illustrate how the message is packaged for consumption.

      Of course, ambiguous language is an important part of their message. It gives the impression that doctrine is changing without actually changing the doctrine. This appeases the vast majority of left/right center Catholics who think the church is too conservative as well as the ones who think it’s too progressive. These folks are being told what to think and they aren’t spending a lot of time analyzing the message. The fact that one can always get the “correct” message according to their own belief, is really quite sinister and helps to keep the butts in the pews and the money in the collection plates.

  • ExGayTherapyKills

    You are wasting your time trying to change the Pope and the Catholic church business. The only way to put them and their pedophiles out of business is to sue them out of business and not have anything to do with them.