Coming Out For Animals [VIDEO]

A group of gay vegans have produced a short clip in which they discuss how they believe LGBT and AIDS activism intersects with the animal rights movement. From the clip recap:

All social justice movements are about extending the circle of compassion. In this new short film from the multimedia nonprofit Our Hen House ( – whose mission is to change the world for animals – a great group of passionate activists from the LGBT world talk about how they personally connected the dots and came out for the animals, too. “Coming out for Animals” highlights personal stories of connections between gay rights and animal rights, all told while enjoying delicious vegan grub.

  • Sam_Handwich

    I understand the ethical arguments, particularly around the “factory farming” issue. That said, it’s easier to change your mind than your diet.

    Here’s the brisket recipe i’m going to try today 😀

    • Jan Wesselius

      I do like free range chicken better, more tasty.

    • John P.

      Yes, factory farming is disturbing. I could give up meat, but never dairy! I buy ‘Nellies Eggs’ which are supposed to ‘certified humane’… whatever that means. But if they’re nellie, it’s okay by me;-)
      Let us know how that brisket turns out!

    • TJay229

      That recipe sounds nice, but im from the school of Smoking.


      • Gene


      • vorpal

        Boys, give me all your meat NOW!

        • Ragnar Lothbrok


          Don’t you member what happened the last time you said that ?

          • vorpal

            I was so well-fed that I could barely walk for a day.
            I am absolutely willing to remeat the experience.
            (Sorry. Not sorry. No pics!!!)

          • Ragnar Lothbrok

            So you ate that entire case of Hot Dogs I sent you ?
            I know you like to swallow lots of meat, but come on, that is just a bit much I think.

          • vorpal

            What can I say?

            Ragnar, when you direct a meaty wiener my way, I am overtaken by my insatiable hunger and powerless to resist devouring every last bit of it.

            Best of all, I promise to lick everything thoroughly and meticulously, so that there is no mess to clean up afterwards.

    • LGBTcompassion

      Never say never. About 4 million of us in the U.S. alone have changed. You simply have to think about the animals and the planet.

  • Jan Wesselius

    Coming out as a vegan is the same as coming out for a gay? I don’t think so.

    • Sam_Handwich

      all those tortured years, hiding tofu between the mattress and box spring ….


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    • DaddyRay

      Well I guess visitation rights at my families Thanksgiving dinner might be impacted as my sister-in-law would refuse to make a Tofu Turkey

      • Jeffrey

        Once at a group thanksgiving among friends, one obnoxious vegan friend made a big show out of needing tofurky and then ate the real turkey because tofurky is steaming shite.

        • Rolf

          We had tofurkey one Thanksgiving, it had the texture of a solid rubber ball and did not taste even vaguely good. Everyone took a couple of bites to be polite, but the majority of it was fed to the compost pile. Even those two bites gave everyone a prodigious amount of flatulence.

          • Warren Jones

            your ignorant hateful comment is no different than anti-gay comments made by homophobic bigots. I love tofurkey!!! It’s delicious but tofurkey isn’t the ONLY thing vegans eat.

          • Blow it out your arse.

          • vorpal

            So, expressing one’s personal tastes and experience is somehow akin to homophobic comments?

            Oh man… that is so deliciously hilarious that it must be fattening.

            Let me guess: you’re being PERSKYUUUTED!

        • Warren Jones

          your ignorant hateful comment is no different than anti-gay comments made by homophobic bigots.

          • Jeffrey

            My ignorant hateful comment about tofurkey? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahhahahaha aaahhhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha seriously, I can’t stop hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahajajajajjajahajajaja now I’m laughing in Spanish hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahajajajaja

          • vorpal

            Don’t you have someplace more fun to whine like a little bitch?

    • Nax

      The person who said that is gay and a vegan. For him, he said it was similar. That’s his experience. I would guess he’s more open to people showing how it isn’t the similar than having having people hear him explain how it was similar.

      • Jan Wesselius


        • Nax

          Are we as prepared to listen to how it is similar? as I think he would be prepared to listen to, and agree with, how it isn’t similar?

    • Jeffrey

      This is a good reminder that anyone who takes anything too seriously is annoying.

    • Will Parkinson

      My mom handled the fact that I was gay and atheist much better than she did the fact I was vegan. Much teeth gnashing ensued.

    • Gyeo

      Thank you! I have also heard vegans compare being vegan to race and sexuality.

    • Kevin-in-Honolulu

      I disagree – the constant offering of meat, the condescending attitude when I defend my position…there are many similarities. Maybe not completely the same, but enough to convince me.

      • Jan Wesselius

        I don’t drink, I am an alcoholic. People offer me drinks, I say no thank you, that’s it, end of story. I don’t feel offended at all. I don’t feel the need to defend myself. I sometimes say yes, “a coke would be good”.

        • fyi

          i am vegan myself and i’ve gotten a lot of hostility from people by just saying that i am vegan. i am not preachy about it. i really don’t even talk about it except when necessary “no thanks”, “because i don’t eat meat, but thank you”, then it becomes a whole big issue to them. like they suddenly feel the need to attack and challenge the whole concept. it’s not so much just being offered meat. i’ve had it shoved in my face. had people trying to trick me into eating it. telling me how good animals taste. telling how much they love hunting and fishing. bible quotes about how man has dominion over animals. the same 20 question over and over about what i do or don’t eat/wear. the “fish isn’t meat” debate. most people i’ve encountered seem to act this way. and family are some the worst. they make it an issue every holiday/family dinner. for whatever reason they can’t just let it go … so no, it’s not at all the same as declining a drink.

          • Jan Wesselius

            You need new friends.

          • fyi

            these are not friends. they are coworkers, family, friends of family, etc. people i’ve encountered in general. not my friends.

          • Thom Kulesa

            I have had similar experiences. I have had coworkers and acquaintances get hostile just finding out that I am vegan. Co-workers would insist on all company outings be held in steak-houses just to make the point that they object to vegetarians and vegans, and they would watch me sit there silently, not eating.

            I used to constantly hear complaints about “pushy vegans” from pushy meat eaters, as a way of warning me to keep my mouth shut. And, of course, there were always several of them being obnoxious in a group, insisting that vegans are somehow the ones that are always obnoxious.

            The pre-emptive disgust against vegans, and the claims that everyone used to know that one supposed pushy vegan out there somewhere that nobody can name, are just typical ways for members of a social majority group to attack a social minority group. You would think people here would recognize that power dynamic.

          • Alex Cox

            maybe it’s like people who are closeted are usually homophobic. Obnoxious meat eaters are guilty that they’re participating in torture. And they don’t want to be told what they’re doing is wrong.

    • Warren Jones

      it’s been harder to come out as vegan because of hateful ignorant comments like yours.

      • If that’s what you call “hateful,” I’m gonna out-and-out call you a whiny pussy fairy.

        There’s nothing nicer to say.

        THAT WAS LOW-GRADE BILE. If you want higher-grade, I keep TONS in stock.

      • Jan Wesselius

        You think that’s hateful, Sorry, its was not meant to be. Last I know of they don’t drag vegans behind pick trucks and leave them for dead on barb wire fences.

  • Nax

    I really am very interested in seeing the reactions to this. From past experience I anticipate dismissiveness and mocking. Interesting discussion off topic: The candidate for president Ben Carson (who I do not support) is a vegetarian, and I have told my friends that if his vegetarianism became widely known, that would probably hurt him more than if he admitted to being an atheist or gay.

    • Sam_Handwich

      i respect everyone’s personal dietary beliefs so long as they respect mine

      • LonelyLiberal

        Is it just me, or are vegans less likely to respect anybody else’s diet?

          • LonelyLiberal

            My point exactly. I just got lectured on my food choices, regardless of the (failed) attempt at reflecting the responsibility on me.

            I don’t care of somebody’s vegan, and I trust they enjoy their vitamin deficiencies. But really, there they are, killing plants and lecturing me about killing things. Hypocrisy at its finest.

          • Reminds me of a girl I knew in school…she told me that meat and dairy were so gross and unhealthy, while smoking (per her) ~2 packs of cigarettes a day (I’ve never smoked, but I think that’s quite a bit? Dunno). She also drank more coffee than I do, which is really an accomplishment! :p

            I also had a co-worker who told me that my springtime pollen allergies are caused by not having a vegan diet. And here I thought it was because, until I was 25, I never lived anywhere that had heavy pollen and then moved somewhere where the pollen count is sometimes OVER 9000! :p

          • LonelyLiberal

            I was advised that my gallbladder problems were the result of a meat-heavy diet (which mine really isn’t and I live on 90% green matter). Naw, turns out bacterial infections can happen to anybody.

            And yes, 2 packs a day is a lot. Quite a lot. And very inconsistent with the choice of a healthy diet–the two don’t cancel each other!


            Fun fact–we discovered that people who get parasites don’t generally have allergies (it’s an overraction of the immune system when parasites are rare). Giving people dog worms (which can’t reproduce in human systems and die) tends to reduce allergy symptoms. Don’t look for that treatment any time soon, they’re still testing.

          • Gene

            disgusting as that is to think about…it has been noted in respected journals that kids who grew up around animals, ran around barefoot, had colds as kids, and were just…well, EXPOSED to more stuff as a rule, as one would expect, develop better immune systems. Its possible in our very “clean” society to never be near a potential parasite, get some dirt under your nails playing the mud at your grandmas farm, etc. Some specialists in the treatment of allergy say that this IS having an effect on the increase in allergy suffering from both airborn and food allergens. the dog worm thing, gross as it is to think about, makes sense. ick..but, it makes sense

          • LonelyLiberal

            I know, right? I’m rather blessed in that I’m an avid gardener and grow my own plants from seed. I’m pretty much dirty from February through November and have critters crawling on me from April through October.

            I don’t get sick much, but my nails always look like crap.

          • Gene

            lol….I have also known a vegetarian (not vegan) who told me I would get sick from from diet while SHE was smoking, and she drank like a fish I will add….and no 2 packs a day is not a bad habit…its way worse than that…it makes you a CHIMNEY (!)

          • Gene

            Two packs a day? …..She did not have a blond ‘up do’ “work” at a fashion magazine and screw half the men in London did she?

          • Gene

            pigs aren’t “others” I will add…. Somalians, Swedes, Argentine’s, are others….(Peter Singer…the “ethics” professor at Princeton?….danger will robinson, danger)

    • TJay229

      A plate of cheese grits took out two of his teeth. Why is he a candidate for the presidency?

      • LonelyLiberal

        My father did once break a tooth on a (soft, well-cooked) shrimp. He had awful teeth. Maybe Ben’s are the same, for which I can’t fault him. Genetics sometimes suck.

    • leo77

      I have no trouble with vegans. I have vegan friends, have dined with them at vegan restaurants. Have eaten vegan meals in their homes.

      However having certain LGBT people insisting that the wider LGBT community must embrace some tangental cause that’s personally near and dear to their hearts is an old saw. I remember going to the rally every year in NYC when it was still down in Union Square and being told by people that the goal of the LGBT movement was to bring about world wide socialism and I better get with the program.

      • vorpal

        I experience this more as an atheist than as a gay man. Lots of vegetarian / vegan atheists, and they can be a bit pushy about it.

  • OhSoGood

    Meat’s meat, and man’s gotta eat.

    • Jarle Tveitan

      Yep. If people wanna eat vegan, they are free to do so, but we should be free to eat meat as well.

      I’m not too fond of the various vegan movements. I get the impression that a lot of them, if they had enough support/power, would not be content to merely promote veganism, but would try to activly shut down meat production, to stop other people from eating meat.

      • Gene

        not all of them. I have some friends who are vegans and would not, BUT, you are right! I know two vegans who openly state that their long term goal is the illegality of the sale and consumption of not only meat, but of all animal products, from dairy to even honey. I dont think they are the norm though…and, they belong to PETA, so…well…enough said there about their state of mind.

  • TJay229

    Call me prejudice I don’t care I could never date a vegan. I enjoy going out to dinner, cooking and BBQing to much to be worried about being shamed for my eating habits.

    Fuck that.

    Going to Peter Lugers on Friday as a matter of fact.

    • GunnaHurt

      I honestly see more people shaming vegans or vegetarians for their eating habits than the other way around. Maybe it depends on where you live, but knowing a few vegetarians they tend to be pretty low-key about it but I’ve never seen a meat eater pass up a chance to make a snarky comment about how stupid a vegetarian is.

      • vorpal

        I agree. Most (possibly all?) of the vegans and vegetarians I know are pretty good people and never try to shame anyone or force anyone to adopt their dietary choices. They have also never demanded accommodation by hosts, and have always discussed with the host and brought some food to gatherings that would be in accordance with their dietary choices so as to not be an imposition.

        That being said, while I respect their dietary choices completely:
        1. I don’t particularly like going out to eat with them, as I generally like to go to Asian restaurants where dishes are shared;
        2. I could never be vegetarian / vegan, even if I wanted to, by order of my doctors (Crohn’s); and
        3. I would be VERY hard pressed to date a vegetarian / vegan. (I will never say never!)

      • Jeffrey

        Ive never heard of vegan shaming, what nonsense. We’ve got to stop the whole “shaming” thing. Its just people voicing their opinions and calling it shaming is utterly infantilizing.

        • GunnaHurt

          Actually, I’m not vegan but I do honestly see it a lot. There’s a meme that pops up on Facebook about 50 times per month about “how do you know if someone is vegan? don’t worry, they’ll fucking tell you” and my answer is always “seems that you just made a big deal out of telling us you’re a meat eater.” The way that people gun for vegetarians in that casual bullying way does kinda feel the same as the way people tell casual racist or homophobic jokes. I’m not comparing the two, exactly, but I do see how it’s more of the same mean-spirited majority picking on a minority.

          • There’s a reason for that.

            There’s a reason for ALL stereotypes. There’s a grain of truth to it. Deny all you want.

          • GunnaHurt

            OH there’s truth in all stereotypes. But I’ve met a lot more obnoxious anti-vegan meat eaters than I have obnoxious vegans and I live in San Francisco. I can’t imagine what it would be like in Texas.

          • Jeffrey

            So a joke is shaming now? We are a sensitive bunch of snowflakes now, aren’t we.

          • GunnaHurt

            hm… that’s exactly what my homophobic co-worker said when I called him out for his AIDS “jokes.”

          • Jeffrey

            What a pitiful life you must lead if this is the kind of shit you worry about. Soooo tiresome. I would rather hear an AIDS joke than hear some asshole tell me about TVP.

          • GunnaHurt

            girl, it’s five hours later and you’re still butthurt and you say *I* have the pitiful life.

            Ok. Let’s go with that.

          • vorpal

            Agreed. If we can’t laugh at ourselves and recognize a funny joke, we’re taking ourselves way the hell too seriously.

        • GunnaHurt

          (kind of like when there’s a story about a gay person coming out and some gormless straight person posts “you know… I don’t go around telling people I’m straight” and I’m always like “um, honey… you just did.”)

          • vorpal

            I hear you, and most of the vegans / vegetarians I’ve met have been awesome people, but there are the obnoxious few who feel that they need to embark on a crusade to turn everyone vegan / vegetarian and shame people for not being that way.

            I have very seldom met any gay person who has tried to shame heterosexuals into being gay, so there are important differences.

      • DerHirsch

        personally not a vegan or vegetarian, though i have cut down on my meat consumption as much as i can (couple of meat free days a week). it is also my experience that the agressors are normally the meat-eaters, with their constant snarking and passive aggressive behaviour. most of the vegetarians and vegans i know just want to enjoy the diet of their choice without being taunted.

        • …and you see the comments from people like Warren and Compassion in this thread? That’s a sampling of exactly what I’ve seen (and dated) in my past.

          Damn right I’ll be snarky about it.

      • TJay229

        Yes… My statement still stands.

        I have had some Vegetarian /Vegans preach and cry about animals to me yet:
        Wear a leather belt
        Carry a leather bag
        Own a leather jacket
        Own leather shoes
        Have leather seats in their car

        I find them (it) silly and choose not to date one. If i found out one was at my table while I was eating, I’d make sure to announce for my steak to be “Philadelphia style” just to churn their stomach.

        • GunnaHurt

          no argument there. Vegetarians are not immune to a lack of self-awareness.

    • Nax

      And this kind of proves the point of the video…

  • LonelyLiberal

    Well, that’s conflation. No, the two aren’t really connected except for the “activism” thing. You choose to be a vegan. Parents don’t toss you out of the house for being vegan. Kim Davis would issue a license to a heterosexual vegan couple.

    Unlike TJay229, I might date a vegan, but probably wouldn’t marry one. There’d be too much resource conflict in the kitchen and too much whining when I make soap from lard.

  • TKW

    Nothing can steer me away from my braised lamb shanks. I was born the way!

    • I hear ya. Me, I can’t make Three Cup Chicken without chicken! And we always have fish for New Year (tradition! And, allegedly, lucky)

      • LonelyLiberal

        ‘Round here, pork is considered lucky on New Year’s Day. Pork and sauerkraut. And I hate sauerkraut.

        • Herald

          Fortunately, I love pork and sauerkraut.

      • vorpal

        Clearly you have never had the Thai dish, “Three Types of Chicken.”

        It contains zero types of chicken :-).

  • Mark

    At my house……
    NY strips!
    Ckn – roasted, toasted, shaked, baked, and fried.
    Eggs! Cheese! hell yes.

    • Cuberly

      Currently on a diet, part of that diet is to increase fruits and veg, reduce carbs, replace some protein but still eat some meat.
      I bought some Morning Star bacon strips, basically vegan bacon, one of those synthetic vegetable protein things.
      Opening the package, it looked disgusting. Sorta like laffy taffy. Cooked it according to the directions and had my fake BLT. ICK! The texture was awful, the taste was so fake it was scary. Lord knows what chemicals they put in it to make it taste like that.

      Won’t make that mistake again.

      • I think my parents grabbed a box of something similar as a test.

        I’ll make sure to steer well clear and eat the slab of the good stuff that’s also in the fridge.

        • Cuberly

          HA, yeah, it’s considerably better. Though I definitely have issues with factory farming.

          Moderation. A BLT is probably my favorite sandwich, well that and a good pastrami reuben.

          Yeah I’m not going to go for the fake veggie based stuff. Though I have eaten some vegan chicken patties that where surprisingly good.

          • I mean, my family comes straight from that Rowan County area of Kentucky.

            The idea of new-age diets and faddish progressive eating habits?


  • Charlie 2001

    While there may be some validity to comparing coming out as gay to comparing coming out as vegan the much better comparison is to the antiabortion movement. You can choose to be a vegan or not (you do not choose your sexual orientation) and there many who then try and cram their choices down other people’s throats. And the people who demonstrate against meat and fur are quite comparable to people who demonstrate at Planned Parenthood clinics. And there are the extremist/terrorists who take violent action.

    My niece and her new husband had a lovely vegan wedding reception. The food was quite delicious.But cooking like that everyday would take a tremendous amount of effort and I am not rich enough to eat in a restaurant every day (he is a doctor and perhaps they are). I think human beings are omnivores, not herbivores.

  • Gene

    I ADORE some of the vegans here (Mommie Dammit I believe? do correct me if I am wrong Mommie Dammit!) , and my best friend is married to one, and I RESPECTFULLY disagree (but will cook vegan food for someone if they request it at dinner party, etc). but, 1) comparing this to coming out as gay? No. no, no.
    2) no…I don’t equate human and animal pain. 3 ) food, and the consumption of meat, is a HUGE part of both my, and my husbands culture…Turkey (not tofurkey) at Thansksgiving, several chinese festivals that serve fish or pork as the signature dish. 4) lastly, and I DO, I really DO admire the basic goodness of those involved in this..and I know that to them, this is a BIG deal, but, when there are issues facing HUMANS who are suffering from rape, murder, homophobic attack, attacks because they are women, child prostitution, child labor…on and on and on, there are just (forgive the analogy) Bigger fish to fry.
    Lastly…as each and ever vegan who ever tried to shame me for eating meat has found out, you really should not go there. You dont want to go there. I wont nag you to eat the meat I serve, I wont rub in that worldwide from China to Indonesia to even India, meat consumption is WAY up…WAY up, year after year after year with no sign of slowing and that you are a western elite statistical outlier…and, we will all just get along.

    • Gene

      I dont mind hearing ideas I disagree with, but I WONT be “guilted” for eating chicken…thanks. (( and i wont “guilt” you for hurting grandmas feelings when you refuse to eat 80% of what she cooked for the holidays ))

      • LonelyLiberal

        That having been said, we really do eat too much meat, on average, in the First and Second world.

        Ethically, I have no real problem with that. Health wise, it would be smarter to turn to a more vegetable-based diet with occasional meats and far less stuff with added sugar.

        But I’m as guilty as the next person, so it’s simply an observation–and most definitely not a commandment from on high or anything like that.

  • Evolutionary biologists have pretty much concluded that learning to hunt meat and acquiring more of a meat-based diet helped fuel the intellectual capacity of our developing brains.

    • Circle Thomas

      I’ve been reading some fascinating commentary about how the left can be anti-science in its own special way, specifically as it comes to vaccines and GMOs. I’d chalk veganism up the same factors.

      • vorpal

        The anti-vaccine movement by the left is so fucking embarrassing that I can’t even.

        • another_steve

          It’s the “Chemtrails” conspiracy mindset: “The Government is out to get us. To experiment on our children. The Government is evil.”

          A sentiment shared by many, both on the left and the right.

          • vorpal

            I find it amazing that most of the paranoid schizophrenia in the US seems to revolve around government. I wonder how it plays out in countries where people are less distrustful.

        • Gene

          you have heard me mention my best friend the scientist at the CDC…he works developing vaccines, and I have seen him WEEP, actually weep, where there are outbreaks due to parents not getting their kids vaccinated. Its worse than an embarassment, it borders on abuse based in ignorance/stupidity, and I am sooo happy CA has lowered the boom on parents and said that without some serious reasons, vaccinations will be required.
          The GMO thing, considering the good it could do to feed a hungry world, and the mere Pseudoscience used against it, is if anything, as bad or worse!

          • vorpal

            I strongly believe that school attendance should REQUIRE up to date vaccinations unless valid medical reasons (e.g. autoimmune disorders, which can respond badly to them) can be provided. If parents want to engage in such anti-intellectual stupidity, make it as vastly inconvenient for them as possible to do so.

            As for GMOs, I don’t think we can laud them all as good or dismiss them all as bad. It is like saying all drugs are safe or all drugs are dangerous: kind of a ridiculous claim when you are playing with such a diverse range of things.

          • Gene

            I have a sweet little cousin, 7 years old, with a rare and awful autoimmune disease that makes her NOT a candidate for vaccination. Happily, she lives in KY where some older people STILL remember childhood diseases. Her mom tells me she is in a class with about 20 other kids and ALL are vaccinated. this is a good thing, because if she was in Marin Co. or Portland, (not Marin soon…CA has laid down the law) she might be in a class with 7 or 8 vaccinated, 12 or 13 who are not, and a measles or mumps/rubella outbreak that would sicken them as it ran through (as has happend recently in some parts of america) could KILL her. Vaccinating does not just protect your kid, it protects the ones who cannot be for just that reason.

          • Trog

            Question on GMOs: I recently saw a one-page advertisement in the New Yorker against GMOs, basically saying (if I remember) that the veggies aren’t really modified to grow in harsher climates or to be healthier, but in fact to withstand more pesticides and chemicals, and that companies making these chemicals are the ones to profit the most.

            I had never heard this argument before and didn’t know if it was pseudoscience left-wing craziness, or if there were elements of truth in it. Maybe both.

            I’m not staunch pro- or anti-GMOs. But the argumentation made me curious.

          • McSwagg

            The biggest problem that I have seen with GMOs is related to the business plan of the seed producer (I refer specifically to Monsanto and their GMO corn). They sell the seed to a farmer who plants it in his field. When the resulting crops are pollinated by insects, etc. there is cross-pollination with the fields next door where another farmer has planted non-GMO seed. When the ‘non-GMO’ crop is harvested and brought to the grain silo, it is found to contain the genetic modifications because it was cross-pollinated with the next field over GMO crop by the wild insects. The ‘non-GMO’ farmer is then sued for theft of intellectual property. That is wrong.

          • Ragnar Lothbrok

            Right, except the vast majority of plant species is the commodity known as #2 Yellow corn. Corn self pollinates, or rather is pollinated by wind.

            Same with Soy Beans, they actuallly flower, and research has shown that those with bee hives near the fields have an increase pollination effect resulting in about 10 % more yield.
            But, all the chems, sprays along with habitat ( diversity ) destruction have the left bees upside down and dead.

          • Ragnar Lothbrok

            being a former farm boy and still in farm country, what you read is fact. GMO’s were developed to resist roundup and other poisons.

      • BINGO!!!! 😀

    • another_steve

      Vegans should take a moment to look in a mirror, at their teeth.

      They will find there the same tooth structures that other carnivores in nature possess — structures designed for the tearing and shredding of meat.

      • Gene

        I like tofu.
        Tofu is NOT a challenge to my canines or my bicuspids. They evolved to tear meat.

      • Warren Jones

        your ignorant hateful comment is no different than anti-gay comments made by homophobic bigots.

        • Ah, yes. As said earlier, are you being killed or beaten up?

          No, but just having your poor fee-fees hurt?

          GROW UP.

        • another_steve

          The “eating of meat” issue is analogous, for me, to other “personal choice” issues — such as a woman’s right to choose abortion.

          You may find it abhorrent, and that’s perfectly okay.

          Just don’t inflict your moral sense of “abhorrence” on the rest of us…okay?

      • LGBTcompassion

        Actually, our teeth are much more similar to herbivorous animals. We have incisors in the front, and flat grinding surfaces on our molars, with side-to-side grinding motion (like horses). Carnivores have all pointed slicing teeth with no grinding ability – only vertical slicing motions.

        Our “canine” teeth are extremely undeveloped compared to chimps and gorillas, which have primarily plant-based diets. They’re great for ripping into apples though.

        But none of that matters. It’s very clear that we can thrive on vegan diets, they’re better for animals and our planet. We have a choice.

        • vorpal

          Oh, I see: you’re one of those obnoxious people.
          Do the rest of us a favour and embrace your choice to fuck off.

        • another_steve

          Yes, we have a choice. My point is that I should not choose for you and you should not choose for me. Neither should we shame one another for not choosing the same way.

          Again, I think this is analogous to the abortion choice.

          • LGBTcompassion

            When your actions harm other sentient beings unnecessarily (and are very destructive to our environment and ecology, which affects all of us), then such actions should not be a “choice” in an ethical society.

            It’s analogous to Kim Davis stating it’s her “choice” to cause harm to other humans based on her personal desires, and based on the bodies and situations her victims are born into. Fortunately, our society has advanced to a point where that “choice” is not provided to her. Unfortunately, she is still free to “choose” to inflict suffering and death on beings who are not humans.

            It’s not analogous to abortion, which involves non-sentient tissues, and is not something people deliberately choose to do. We’re not intentionally impregnating people just to give them abortions, because we derive “pleasure” or profit from the act. It’s a necessity to reduce suffering in society.

            Until society progresses to a point where it’s no longer legal and socially-acceptable to harm non-humans, all we can do is provide information, examples, and ask people to make ethical decisions.

          • another_steve

            First and foremost, I appreciate the civil, non-combative exchange we’ve been having on this. Thank you.

            I too strive to reduce suffering, which is why when I make my food choices I try to exclude known examples of unnecessary suffering inflicted upon animals. The raising of veal cattle is a good example. I don’t eat veal. And I only eat fish that are bred and raised in environmentally sound ways.

            There’s no way to eliminate suffering and harm to all living things, however. When you walk across a lawn, you’re trampling underfoot hundreds of thousands of insects, many too small for the human eye to see.

            So one might ask oneself, “Is the life of a tiny insect any less sacred and worth saving than the life of a steer?” I think not. But this giving and taking is part of the grand contract we living things enter into.

            There’s an ongoing giving and a taking that all of life engages in. Philosophical daoists put it this way: When a shark eats a penguin, there is gain and loss there. Gain for the shark, loss for the penguin. But no harm. No foul.

            Again — thanks for the exchange, LGBTcompassion.

    • vorpal

      One of my friends who is vegetarian and who also has ulcerative colitis suffered for years from extremely bizarre health conditions where her brain just felt vastly fucked up: her senses were frequently inaccurate (things would often feel wet to her, even if they weren’t, or cold or warm, even though they weren’t, etc), she would just spontaneously forget how to perform common tasks (like how to drive properly, and would have to pull over until it passed, or how to get home from a location), and she often felt dizzy and just generally uncomfortable.

      She visited doctor after doctor and nobody could diagnose her: she was convinced that it was possibly lupus or MS or something similar.

      Finally, she met a doctor who suggested that even though her blood work did not display any serious deficiency of Vitamin B12 that raised red flags, her problems could still be caused by a mild but chronic B12 deficiency. She started supplementing, and within a couple of months, most of her symptoms completely vanished. She is not fully back to normal, but there may be permanent impairment from the chronic deficiency. It is nice to see her doing so much better, though!

      Just a cautionary tale. Obviously, being a vegetarian / vegan can be done safely, but I think – especially when combined with health conditions – one must carefully monitor when choosing to impose strict dietary restrictions on themselves.

      • LGBTcompassion

        Your story doesn’t add up.

        Vegetarians and vegans know to supplement with B12. It’s not a problem. And if she was consuming dairy and eggs, she would have been obtaining it. Some vegan products are fortified with it. We don’t require much, and it’s stored for up to 2 years in our bodies.

        In fact, everyone (vegetarian or not), needs to be aware of and usually supplement B-12 and Vitamin D.

        Farm animals are fed the same B12 supplements, which passes on to those who eat their products. It’s difficult for any animals (human or non-human) to obtain in modern conditions, as it originates from bacteria in water and soil. In more primitive times, it wasn’t an issue.

        • vorpal

          I’m not her. I have no idea what she was – if anything – supplementing with prior to adding extra B12 to her diet. It’s certainly common knowledge to me that B12 can be an issue with vegetarianism, but her levels – as far as I understand it – were within the lower realms of the normal range, but even that was enough to cause problems because of her ulcerative colitis, I believe.

          I supplement B12, iron, and a multivitamin regularly, but I have Crohn’s and am extremely well informed as to my health and the consequences. I don’t expect other people to share my dedication.

          I don’t have to justify her situation to you: whether or not you believe me couldn’t be less relevant to me. She is one of my best friends and I witnessed her suffering for years, untreated and in distress, and now she is flourishing.

    • Nax

      Eating meat can be helpful. However, eating meat 2-3 times a day, every day, is not really necessary and takes it toll on the environment.

      • Point taken. And to be honest, at the age of 56 I’ve cut MOST of the meat and dairy out of my diet for health reasons (weight, cholesterol, blood pressure, etc.). But I also know that I’m supposed to get at least 90 grams of protein in my diet each day, and only so much can come from nuts and beans. I’m also quite aware that industrial-scale raising of cattle and other large farm animals is not good for the environment.

        Bottom line: I will never be a vegetarian, let alone a vegan. I simply enjoy the taste of meat too much, and no lentil loaf will be able to replace that. But the human species as a whole would do well to reduce its meat consumption.

        • Bj Lincoln

          Exactly. Thank you.

        • Warren Jones

          you really don’t know what you are talking about. It’s actually really easy to get plenty of protein from a vegan diet. In fact it’s nearly impossible to not get enough protein from a balanced diet consisting of whole grains, legumes, fruits and vegetables. Please stop spreading lies. Also you are saying that you can’t be vegan because you enjoy the taste of meat too much. So in other words even though it’s completely unnecessary to eat animal products and you are contributing to unimaginable cruelty to animals and destruction of the environment and harming your own health you would rather keep eating them because you like how they taste. What does that say about your character?

          • Ah, but it’s necessary to bitch and post the same shit 8 times about how you got your feelings hurt on a thread and how you feel a few rough words are the same as being beaten up and maimed?

            Come at us with something a bit better next time, Snowflake.

          • vorpal

            It was only a matter of time before the colossal douchebag veg(etari)?an crew showed up to wreak their annoyance and hilarity upon us.

            I find it delightful that our buddy Wayne up above compared US to homophobes when he’s the one using shame and judgment to try to get us to change our “lifestyles.” IRONY!

          • That second paragraph took a level of thinking that I’m not capable of at the moment…genius! 🙂

          • vorpal

            Thanks, Cody, and always awesome to run into you on here!

          • Oh don’t be so insulting. People have been eating meat for millions of years. It doesn’t reflect on anyone’s “character.”

          • LGBTcompassion

            People have been doing a lot of things for millions of years that no longer have a place in a civilized society. We are not bound to history or our ancestors — we can choose our own ethics.

          • vorpal

            It’s such a shame that animals are so goddamned delicious.

          • Hey, if it’s good enough for Divine …

          • Andy Tabar

            I mean, Diving also ate shit straight from a dog’s ass, so…

    • LGBTcompassion

      Not true. That’s been one theory, without science to back it up. Spanish researchers have recently found evidence that carbohydrates were key to our brain development.

      However, what our ancestors did is never a good basis for our ethics in modern times. And it’s very clear that we don’t need any animal products for optimal health, so we have the choice to avoid them to minimize suffering and environmental destruction.

      • vorpal

        Some of us do need animal products for optimal health, because our health – through no choice or action of our own – is suboptimal.

        Others of us just fucking love eating animals.

  • Neely OHara

    There was a trope in the early gay rights movement, when demonstrators would be seen carrying signs saying “Gays For Whales”:

    Q: Why isn’t the movement gaining much traction?

    A: Because whales don’t vote.

  • bdsmjack

    I have a few vegan friends, and I don’t mind eating their bean dishes, but fake vegan cheese is nasty. So was tofu-turkey.They also talk endlessly about their diet, which frankly is a drag.

  • Jean-Marc in Canada


  • Raising_Rlyeh

    We need animal testing for HIV/AIDS research. More broadly, modern science depends largely on our ability to test treatments on animals. It should be done humanely, but it should not be eliminated.

  • Ginger Snap

    As most of you probably know I’m vegan. Yes I’ve gone on a few rants in my time here on JMG and try not to. With that being said I have to say since changing to an all plant based diet I have never been healthier or felt happier. It is true that there are unhealthy vegans ( they base their diets eating too much grain) but I did my research to ensure that I would get proper nutrition. I have completely lost my craving for meat but I do have to admit sometimes I just gotta have a glass of milk( from a local organic dairy farm.) The dairy craving I believe is from growing up on a dairy farm and having consumed probably 3-4 times the amount of dairy than the general dairy consumer. I also have lost my tolerance for said glass of milk as I’m usually sick for days after. All factory farming is wrong.

    • Ragnar Lothbrok

      I like to hear the views of vegans and appreciate you sharing in a way that doesn’t feel like its being rammed down our tight pink throats.
      ( not that there is anything wrong with that )

    • Jeffrey

      I am a fan of Mark Bittman’s Vegan Before 6. Its a very cool book about eating a vegan diet all day except with some exceptions for dinner. It certainly makes it easier. We still eat meat, just a lot less of it.

      • Alex in Idaho

        I’ve been trying that for a month now, and I feel great. It helps that the garden is pumping out produce I can make into vegan soups and casseroles and freeze. We’ll see how it goes in Winter…

      • Ginger Snap

        That was a good read and I have a few friends who eat that way.

      • Trog

        Thanks for the tip. I’ve made several of Bittman’s recipe’s before but have never heard of “Vegan Before 6.” That idea sounds doable…. I’ll check it out!

    • Gene

      AH! yes…it was you, ginger snap…not mommie dearest whom I remembered being a vegan. 1) you were mistaken for good company 2) your rants are not obnoxious…just passionate opinions, and while it is D A N G E R O U S to DARE speak “for the group” of posters here, I feel pretty safe saying we all just luv’ your vegan self, and respect your choices, and I have never read you be “a bitch about it” or anything. We may disagree about meat…but, who does not love a Ginger Snap? (washed down with milk, or bourbon…there are just SO many wonderful options 🙂

      • Ginger Snap

        I did go on a quite viscous rant when the lion killer post first went up. I jummped on a few posters that was undeserved and I do so regret it. I will probably apologize for it here for a long time to come. So again I am sorry for what I said to anyone at that time. Yes Ginger Snaps are one of my favorite cookies bud oddly enough that is not where my name came from, that is another very long story. Gene thank you for all the lovely compliments.

    • Todd Allis

      I’ve been vegan over 20 years. I don’t bring it up much, don’t see a lot of need. I used to talk about it more when I was a new vegan. I feel healthy and get fewer headaches than I used to. I do eat honey though.

      I have cats and feed them wet food every evening. Ew. But they are mostly carnivorous, and I wouldn’t try to change that. ^_^

  • Ragnar Lothbrok

    I remember being LIVID when PETA took out a full page ad comparing Meat Consumption with the actions of Jeffry Dahlmer. I wrote an editorial in the OP/ Ed of the Des Moines Register that got published. The next day had the Right wingers supporting me after church services, but I don’t think they knew why.

    • When PETA had an ad comparing chicken farming to the Holocaust, I came unglued. Yes, factory farming of chickens is horrendous, but it can’t even compare to what millions of humans suffered thru those dark evil days of Nazi Germany.

  • Ragnar Lothbrok

    Having a farm background and being a huge animal rights supporter, I just want people to know that You can take a stand against factory farming and still enjoy meat. It’s called organic, humanely raised, sustainable farming. Search them out in your area. Yes it will cost more, but I am pretty sure that we don’t need a slab of meat on every plate at every meal 7 days a week.

    • Psh. Organic = Sham. Heard too many and seen too many false memes and scare reports to be bought off by that.

      • Ragnar Lothbrok

        Trust but verify Cody, applies to everything in life 🙂

    • Alex in Idaho

      ^^THIS^^ I finally bought a freezer and am buying a quarter beef and half a lamb from a young ranching couple who practice “restorative” farming (think Joel Salatin). The animals never have grains, antibiotics or hormones and are harvested in the field to spare them stress. Their free-range chickens were the best I’ve ever had. For my one meat meal a day, why not have something good (good for me, the animal, and the environment)?

      • Warren Jones

        Good for the animal?!?!?! How is killing an animal good for it? Is that Orwellian or what? and no, animal agriculture is not good for the environment nor is consuming animal products healthful.

        • Jeff Chang

          “How is killing an animal good for it?”
          Population control, prevention of inbreeding, removing an old animal.

          ” animal agriculture is not good for the environment”

          Neither are other others things like electricity or housing. Its about doing an acceptable level of damage for the decent standard of living.

          “consuming animal products healthful.”

          Citation needed.

        • Alex in Idaho

          I’m not going to get drawn into this, but just let me say: if they weren’t harvested, they would die anyway, probably falling down in the field and being chewed on by coyotes and vultures. They spend their whole lives (from beginning to end) in open, spring-fed pastures, then have a quick, humane end. That’s about as good as it gets for a cow. I hope MY end is that good.

          • Alex in Idaho

            P.S. This description is not marketing bullshit, I’ve been to this ranch.

          • LGBTcompassion

            Alex, they would not be bred into existence in the first place if there wasn’t a demand for them, so they would not have to suffer at all.

            All large mammals are required by law to be sent to the same extremely cruel slaughterhouses that factory farms use. They don’t get killed in any “loving” manner. I’m sure you’d rather not get strung up by one leg and butchered alive, or dropped into boiling water while conscious. There’s never a way to take someone’s life against their will, even if you derive pleasure or profit from it.

            And 98% of animal products are from standard factory farms. About 40% of our land is already used for animal farming, and pastured farming degrades our land further. “Sustainable” farming is just not an option.

          • vorpal

            So nonexistence is preferable to existence.

        • vorpal

          There is nothing healthful about having to tolerate bullshit from self-righteous histrionic judgmental ass-hats like you. Thus, in the interests of my optimal health, I hereby request that you eliminate yourself.

    • Trog

      THANK YOU! I’m also from a rural background. My family loves to hunt. I like meat. I don’t find it inhumane to kill an animal to eat–it can actually be done with respect–but it is inhuman to raise that animal is a tiny cage and pump it full of hormones.

      And yes, cutting down on the meat, especially red meat, is a healthy choice for many reasons.

    • Warren Jones

      what part of killing is humane?

      • Ragnar Lothbrok

        I see, you are one of those.
        But if we are going to eat meat and MOST of us are, we have a responsibility to do it in a manner that is as close to natural as possible.

        • vorpal

          It looks like we both made a new friend :-).

      • vorpal

        Certainly not that brutal, violent part where you rip the carrot from the comforting bosom of Mother Earth.

  • Jeffrey

    As the old saying goes, If you’re a vegan who has a rescue pet and runs marathons, which one do you wedge into the conversation first?

    • I couldn’t say it any better. #FullOfThemselves

  • Bj Lincoln

    Homo sapiens are omnivores. Our bodies function best on a combination of plants and animal proteins.
    ‘Coming out’ as vegan is NOT like coming out as LGBT.
    Being Vegan is a choice as well as unnatural and possibly harmful.
    Being LGBT is NOT a choice and is only harmful because of others ignorance and hate.

    • But look at what we’re running into here…

      #PullsHairOut #WhyLeftistsAreDespised

  • kladinvt

    Cue the snarky, dismissive carnivore comments, as usual.

    • Get what ya give.

      We’re ready and willing.

  • Gyeo

    You know, unless you make a specific and expensive choice to seek out only locally grown vegetables from farmers you’ve researched, most of your vegetables aren’t that much more ethical than meat. Many of then involve destructive farming at the cost to local animals, slave wages for workers, and in some cases force evictions of native people. Vegans who claim a moral high ground should be addressing theses issues but many do not. Maybe because of the history of dehumanizing queer people and people of color but I will always judge you for elevating animals over humans. Remember how prop 8 and prop 2 won at the same time? That’s pretty symbolic of how some people cared more about animals than people.

    • I refuse to eat quinoa for that very reason. We have glommed onto this grain to the point where it’s priced to high for the quinoa growing areas to actually eat their native food.

    • LGBTcompassion

      About 80% of crops grown are to feed to farm animals — including most soy grown in Amazon rainforest, where the forests are clear-cut for them.

      Eating plants directly requires just a small fraction of the crops currently grown. Animal agriculture is also a top contributor to global warming, water and land pollution, species destruction, ocean “dead zones.”

      Humans are exploited tremendously by animal agriculture, in the pollution of communities by nearby farms, and slaughterhouse workers.

      Relieving some farm animals of 2 of the most cruel farming practices is not relevant to providing equal rights to LGBTs. The people who voted for Prop 8 would not have voted to treat LGBTs the way farm animals are treated.

      Please watch the documentary Cowspiracy: The Sustainability Secret now streaming on Netflix for a better picture of the negative impacts of animal agriculture, and why environmental groups are mostly ignoring the issues.

    • Andy Tabar

      It’s weird how no one seems to care about the injustice that farm workers face except when it plays as a convenient gotcha card to try and shut down a discussion about animal rights. It’s a false argument. Those who use the struggle of produce workers (largely undocumented migrant workers and people of color) to prop up their continued exploitation of animals are doing nothing more than exploiting the struggle of others only when convent to justify their own unethical choices. No doubt, the exploitation of humans is a horrendous issue that must be addressed, yet the people who bring up the treatment of produce workers seem to forget that they themselves consume vegetables. It’s a logical fallacy used to distract from the issue being discussed. Do you get mad at people who are working to raise awareness of AIDS for not also working on cancer? Why turn your ire to those who are working to end the exploitation of animals (and consequently our environment and other humans)? Additionally, slaughterhouse workers have the highest rate of on the job injury of any other job in America and have over 100% turnover rate every year. Slaughter house workers are exploited just as much, if not more, than produce workers, yet I don’t see meat eaters ever raising a fuss about that. The truth is, it is possible to care about both issues at the same time, and many vegans do. I would suggest checking out the Food Empowerment Project, which addressed the intesectionality of these issues –

  • GanymedeRenard

    Whilst I concur with almost all of the arguments made by the vegan and vegetarian communities, to compare being vegan/vegetarian to being gay or HIV+ is just an insulting absurdity.

    Are vegans/vegetarians being consistently bullied, beaten to death, denied services or housing or marriage licenses, “correctively” raped, sent to torture sessions to attempt to make them carnivores, or thrown off buildings just because of their eating choices?

    When that happens, then they’ll have a point and the comparison would perhaps be valid. Otherwise it’s just a ridiculous hyperbole.

  • bobbyjoe

    As many of you know, I’ve posted on JoemyGod for years, but this is the first time I’ve ever mentioned that I’m a vegetarian/sometimes vegan.

    While I disagree with the notion that being vegan is similar to being gay, a lot of the unreflective comments being made throughout this thread are really disturbing:

    1) I keep seeing people saying that being vegan is “unnatural,” without any sense of irony whatsoever. I’m seeing, over and over stuff like: “Being vegan leads to health problems;” “the body’s not made to be vegan,” “teeth are made for meat-eating” etc., etc. Wow. That sure sounds an awful lot like classic anti-gay rhetoric: it’s “unnatural;” “it causes health problems;” “the anus is for excretion, not intercourse,” etc., etc.

    2) It keeps being repeated that vegans are pushy, always bothering people by talking about their diets, are annoying activists, etc. Again, can anyone understand why such rhetoric seems a wee bit familiar? Blacks, gays, women, religious minorities; it’s pretty much the eternal thing that’s said about all of them: “why are they so pushy?” “why can’t they keep their beliefs to themselves?” “god, they’re so annoying and aggressive.” Again, being gay and being vegan are vastly different things; but, wow, this anti-this-and-that rhetoric sure sounds distinctly similar. Are these really the kinds of arguments people, even here, are comfortable making?

    3) Repeated by many: “”they” just won’t shut up about it.” Again, I’ve posted here for years, I’ve never mentioned I’m a vegetarian before; I’ve certainly never lectured anyone about it. I’ve been with my husband for 17 years; he’s not a vegetarian; I am. We’ve never had a problem with it between the two of us. Frankly, the only times I’ve had a problem about it is when we’ve gone to dinner with people and they kept bugging me about it, often in some weirdly overly-defensive way (since I didn’t bring it up other than say ordering a salad rather than a steak). It is sort of like going to a conservative friends house where they suddenly start grilling you and your husband about how you have sex and “who’s the woman.” The confrontational thing against vegetarianism has happened to me several times over the years and made me really uncomfortable. Notice I’m not on here making broad statements about “meat-eaters” being pushy, obnoxious activists. I do realize that there’s a few people out there that don’t think before they speak or act. I don’t then attribute that behavior to entire sub-sets of people.

    So, anyway, I’ve never mentioned vegetrainism before, nor lectured somebody, but am I still pushy and overbearing? Or am I “one of the good ones” or something? I keep hearing about how vegans are, and what those people are like. Really? Do tell.

    Even if being gay is nothing like being vegan, is this really how some of you want to talk? I mean if your standpoint is just “I’m going to use this kind of rhetoric, even knowing it’s pretty much exactly like the prejudicial rhetoric used countless times against countless other groups, because this time the group in question really, really deserves it“…. well, I don’t know what to say other than: that’s really dispiriting, and I wish people would think a little more about whether or not they are entering into some pretty bad territory and what they’re actually expressing. And that’s all I have to say on the subject.

    • Mr_Fat

      saying that the rhetoric used here is the same as the anti-gay and other haters is the same is like saying that the vegan/vegetarian rhetoric is the same as the anti abortion rhetoric….i mean really most of the comments here have been disagreeing but still supportive of peoples food choices.

  • JVB


  • Warren Jones

    Thank you for posting this. Yes, coming out as vegan for me has been a very similar experience to coming out as gay except that coming out as vegan has been harder because of all the haters out there. Just look at the hateful ignorant comments below. I heard all kinds of completely incorrect and ignorant comments from people about being gay when I came out and it was the same when I went vegan.

    • You’ve posted the same bile about 8 times.

      It makes it no less of a troll comment. You’re the exact type of “trigger alert” person that gives liberalism a terrible name.

  • Ogre Magi

    Remember, animals are our friends…but they can’t pick you up at the airport

  • LGBTcompassion

    Thanks for sharing this terrific video. I’m gay and have been vegan for about 9 years (vegetarian for 15 prior to that). It’s the best decision I’ve ever made, and I live with a clearer conscience knowing that I’m minimizing my negative impact on other sentient beings, and on our planet. Nothing tastes as good as that feels (not that I’ve sacrificed any enjoyment of food).

    With many other gay vegans, I am especially aware of the parallels between the way we treat certain group of humans, and the way we treat non-human animals. The rationale for oppressing others always comes down to them being different, religious reasons, or being able to obtain “pleasure” or profit from them.

    I feel particularly compelled to help animals we use for “food” and “entertainment,” because they have no voices of their own. At least we LGBTs are able to speak up and fight for ourselves.

    Those among us who consider themselves “feminists” should be particularly sensitive to the abuse of the reproductive systems of female animals used for milk and dairy. Those animals (and their babies) suffer much more than animals used for meat.

    It’s disturbing to see the insensitive, cruel, childish, defensive, and bullying comments here, representing the worst stereotypes of gays. I’d think that those who have been abused and oppressed would not want to promote and engage in such treatment of others. But it seems that a few actually enjoy being able to turn around and bully and abuse others (particularly gay rodeo folk). Fortunately, the non-vegan gays I personally know are mostly respectful of and even interesting in these issues, and often make positive personal changes as a result.

    Here are a few excellent articles on this topic.

  • Alex Cox

    Thank you for making this. I think about it all the time with my friends. So many amazing queer people eat sooo much meat. Maybe this will change a few minds

  • Nope. Nope. Nope. Trying one with the other doesn’t make it work. It’s just not going to happen.

    I’m all for ethical farming, but going full vegan is harmful to me. My body requires meat, lots of it. I get sick without it. I do respect the idea, but not the people since most vegans I’ve met are worse than the conservatives about berating you about how evil you are. Like in all things, there’s a lotta bad, but there are some really nice vegans out there.


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