UKRAINE: Gay Couple Attacked While Replicating “Walking While Gay” Video

Via Bird In Flight:

Last week the creators of ChebuRussia TV published a video that documented how people in Moscow reacted to two young men walking around the city holding hands. The video has more than eight million views by now. This experiment was widely discussed in Ukraine as well, and some speculated on whether the reaction to a similar couple in, say, Kyiv would be different. Bird In Flight decided to see for themselves and filmed Zoryan and Tymur walking in crowded public spaces. We can see that most of the people have a neutral opinion, they show no particular interest. This proves that the confrontation is between the two minorities. The only problem is that one of the minorities is excessively aggressive. I think that law enforcement should start the so called ‘safari’ on aggressors, because the latter are discriminating against Ukrainians, popularizing violence and are making it clear with their actions and statements that law enforcement is insignificant to them and the aggression will remain unpunished.

 More from the Guardian:

The Ukrainian far-right has grown in influence after playing a key role in the Euromaidan demonstrations that brought the current pro-Western government to power, and in the conflict with Russia-backed rebels in eastern Ukraine. Earlier this month, a shootout involving the ultra-nationalist militia Right Sector left two dead in western Ukraine and led to a standoff with the authorities. Right Sector’s leader, Dmytro Yarosh, called for a referendum to impeach Poroshenko as supporters rallied in the capital on Tuesday. Maxim Eristavi, a Kiev-based journalist and a member of the LGBT community, said the Mukacheve attack and the assault on Kis and Levchuk were the results of the government’s passive stance towards rightwing extremism. He said top officials failed to condemn an attack by dozens of assailants on a gay pride parade in the capital last month. Eristavi said: “There’s a culture of impunity among Ukrainian far-right extremists that is flourishing on the local governing and political elite’s inability to issue a condemnation of violent paramilitaries.”

The clip below has nearly 800K views already.

(Tipped by JMG reader Den)

  • Bluto

    Brave men.

  • Trevor Brown

    If you’re going to provoke people like that you should probably be armed.

    • Silver Badger

      No probably about it.

      • Trevor Brown

        I wouldn’t walk around Texas like that and I even live in very “Progressive” Austin.

        • KCMC

          thinking more parts of this country than not.
          Professionally, culturally its seems present climate struggles to evolve past, don’t-ask-don’t-tell.

          • another_steve

            Here in the Baltimore/D.C. area I’ve been seeing more and more female couples holding hands as they travel around. Straight guys aren’t threatened by it. I suspect many of them are sexually excited by it, in fact.

            As every gay man knows, it’s an entirely different dynamic when it comes to two guys showing affection in public.

            With all the progress we’ve made here in the states in recent years, it’s still not safe for two guys to hold hands in public outside the urban gay ghetto.

          • KCMC

            glacial slow progress, indeed.
            But I come from family where my ex and I were welcomed to visit as couple yet could not stay in same room in my parents’ house.
            Hotel son.

          • another_steve

            I’m thinking we’re still 30 or 40 years away, here in the states, from the point when societal shunning of queer people will become a rare and isolated thing.

            Imo it’s largely a generational issue. The current generation of over-50s needs to leave the scene (OMG that includes you and me !!! lol), and then we’ll start seeing enormously improved attitudes among the general public.

    • j.martindale

      I deny that it is a provocation. It is a display. Like a billboard, any response is motivated entirely by internal responses.

  • JT

    Tony KKK Perkins would feel right at home.

  • Randy Left Brooklyn

    “There is a small minority who tries to force everyone to play by their rules.” We’re very familiar with that in the U.S.

    Off topic, but their city looks very interesting. I wonder if what it is like to be a tourist there.

    • JT

      There needs to be another pot and kettle inner dialog from the wingnut side.

  • JT

    Obama is about to give an address in Kenya. Steve Kornacki on MSNBC is covering it. Nice to have another gay journalist covering such stories.

    No naked morons protesting yet.

    • canoebum

      Steve Kornacki is gay? I had no idea. I’ve always liked his reporting style, attention to detail and sense of fairness. The guy is a class act, no doubt about it.

      • JT

        Yes, he came out publicly a few years ago in a piece in Salon.

        http://www.salon.com/2011/11/16/the_coming_out_story_i_never_thought_id_write/

        • Octavio

          Wow. Thanks for the link JT. After reading that confession by Kornacki I thank the powers of the universe that I’ve always been an extroverted person proudly wearing a gay chip on my shoulder. As of his 32nd+ year he still hadn’t allowed himself to enjoy a loving and sexually liberating relationship? Yikes! The RCC really does a number on people. I can’t imagine a life in the closet that long, especially for someone so young in this day and age. Apparently he’s doing better now. But still . . . . :-/

          • JT

            I was surprised by his story too, Octavio. But coming out is a very personal thing and a lot depends on the circumstances of the person. The RCC can have a toxic, stultifying effect on gay people. In Steve’s case there was also the fear of rejection by his macho straight guy friends, the sports fans. It’s the same reason gay male athletes stay in the closet as long as they do. Part of what they see as their identity is bound to that group. In Steve’s case, because his gay encounters were minimal in both frequency and content, he probably also depended on those guys for the emotional content lacking in his sexual encounters. Under those conditions, it can be a frightening prospect to risk losing those things, however insubstantial they may look to others or to yourself in hindsight.

          • Octavio

            I don’t disagree. I’m just grateful not to have suffered as he has. Although, there is one thing I learned early as a teen from Existential authors such as James Joyce, Tolstoy, Kafka, Camus, Kundera, etc., which is that the greatest “sin” one can make is to live in bad faith. And in the Existential context, bad faith has nothing to do god. It’s about being true to yourself and not living lie. Yes, he pretty much admits by staying in the closet for so long was because he thought not doing so would compromise his chances for professional success. Maybe it would have. But look what his perception of success has cost him. He has my pity but not my sympathy.

  • zhera

    Because it isn’t enough to be 15 against 2, immobilizing them with pepper spray is so tough.

    • KCMC

      armed only with sweet faces and flowers.
      damn.

  • Webslinger

    when acts of violence go unpunished whether it be against gays, women or any other smaller group NOT holding power…it sends a clear message that it is OK and it will continue…

    • Sk3ptic

      I agree with this.

  • j.martindale

    The gay guys should have some friends with clubs handy to beat off the bastards.

    • Robincho

      The clubs in this case should be used in belaboring these douchebags about the head. Beating them off
      is too accommodating, to say nothing of it probably being just what they’d (secretly) want…

    • BudClark

      I’m a pacifist, but there comes a time …

      • j.martindale

        I am a pacifist, too, but I don’t consider self defense as outside the boundaries of pacifism.

        • JCF

          That’s something I’m certainly not qualified to judge. But I have called the cops before (as violence was actively occurring), so there’s that (i.e., I wasn’t so pacifist as to not call in someone else w/ guns).

          Gandhi always said “Practice Nonviolence”: you have to practice it, to be prepared to even have a choice if/when such situations happen.

    • Sk3ptic

      Should be part of the experiment…beat the shit out of the ‘phobes and post it for all the others to see.

    • gaymex

      I agree with you that backup should have been available. Also, thanks for the giggle from your choice of words, but sometimes it just doesn’t help to beat off bastards in public.

  • drlouie

    Those guys have balls

  • shellback

    Do people not know how to fight back? At least try.

    [edit]
    This is a true story. Although the situation was different (I wasn’t trying to provoke a scene), it illustrates what you can do when you’ve had it. So much pent up emotion eventually needs a release.

    I believe it was my sophomore year in high school. A warm spring day in a nice residential neighborhood. I was walking home alone from classes carrying an armful of books, and my father’s camera over my shoulder.

    Right behind me was the group of thugs (not less than 5 – I can’t recall), who for years tormented me. I always did nothing but go on my way trying to ignore and avoid them.

    But on this day, I snapped. They were kicking me from behind, but I continued walking – until one kicked my father’s camera. Things changed very quickly.

    I dropped everything and turned around to face my attackers. One got close to me and I grabbed his arm. Like a crazy person, I started shouting something to the effect of “leave me alone.” I continued shouting knowing I would get an audience of neighbors.

    Similar to swinging a little kid to play airplane, I started swinging the thug in a circle around me. The others stood there watching.

    Eventually, I swung him into a tree whereupon he dropped to the ground like a bunch of broccoli (Thank you Gene Wilder).

    I picked up my belongings and continued the walk home.

    The rest of my high school years went without incident.

    Did I get lucky? Possibly. Did I have enough? Most assuredly. Did I try? You’re damn right I did.

    • Steven Leahy

      LOL well done

      • shellback

        Thank you, sir.

  • JT

    A direct question about gay rights in Obama’s live news conference in Kenya!

  • Bill_Perdue

    Every day our sisters and brothers In Ukraine, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Uganda and other nations are being endangered by US friendly regimes in those nations.

    The Obama regime reinvigorated fascism in Ukraine (1), supports violently anti-LGBT regimes in places like Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Egypt (2), Iraq and across Africa and is doing nothing real to alleviate the terror our communities face there which ranges from the kind of casual day to day violence in this video to prison and the certainty of torture and death for many.

    We need to increase, not decrease, the pressure we put on the Obama regime to do something real like publicly announcing over and over that US embassies and consulates are open to endangered gays and the asylum and financial aid are assured.

    (1) http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/02/obamas-new-ukraine/

    (2) http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-27961933

  • Bill

    They just want us to be like them.

    Any takers?

    • LonelyLiberal

      No, thank you. I already have a temper, I don’t need to combine it with being a total dick about stuff.

  • JT

    Obama now defending gay rights in Kenya!

    Making a clear analogy with the way those of African descent were treated by law and government in the U.S.

    OUTSTANDING!!!

    • Bill_Perdue

      Maybe that’s not the best analogy.

      People of African descent in the US suffer from monstrous, racist discrimination and are murdered in the streets and in their homes by mad dog killer cops on a regular basis. And everyone in the world knows about it.

      • JT

        The point was about the historical use of law and government against a group of people as a result of regarding them as less than.

        So, on the contrary, the analogy was excellent for an address in an African country where people are talking about the use of law and government to punish gay people for being members of a group considered less than.

        • Bill_Perdue

          OK.
          I misunderstood what you meant.

      • bryan

        Gay people in Kenya are living in fear. They are criminalised and murdered. Obama’s analogy was absolutely right.

        • Bill_Perdue

          There’s a reason for that; Arming and training foreign military and police forces is serious business. The principal goal of these programs is to bolster allies and promote stability. But this form of assistance too often fails to meet its objectives. Done poorly, it can fuel conflicts, enable human rights abuses, and draw the United States into unnecessary wars. Unfortunately, U.S. military aid programs perform poorly far too often, and they are growing rapidly without adequate congressional or public scrutiny. …

          The top recipients of Section 1206 aid in FY2014 were Yemen, Niger, and Kenya. Yemen and Kenya each received over two thirds of their U.S. military aid from the 1206 program, while in Niger the figure was 99 percent. The 1206 program has been a particularly important channel of U.S. military assistance to Africa, which accounted for five of the top ten recipients of 1206 aid in 2014. https://www.ciponline.org/research/entry/rein-in-the-pentagons-military-aid-programs and HuffPo

          It’s the same reason our communities are under attack in Iran, Egypt, Nigeria, Uganda, Ukraine and etc. All US military and police aid should be ended.

          • JT

            There are anti-gay laws in place that are independent of any aid and due to hatred and ignorance.

            Do you honestly think that anti-gay hatred and violence would cease if military aid did?

          • Bill_Perdue

            Do you honestly think that the police and military don’t enforce anti-gay laws, which in most cases can be traced to islamist, English or European colonialism, just like our laws here.

          • JT

            There would be police and military in place without American aid to enforce anti-gay laws and also hatred, which prompted the laws and any civilian aggression there is. You seem to think Kenya would be a gay paradise without American aid. That is absurd.

          • Bill_Perdue

            The police and military are there to protect colonial interest and the US is now the largest neo-colonial power in history.

            You seem to think at America is not the main prop of reactionary and right wing governments around the world. That’s simply a lie.

          • JT

            So, you’re saying there would be no police force at all if there were no Western aid? That’s ridiculous.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Stop lying, Get a grip. Learn to read.

            The US does not provide, it enforces neo-colonial relations.

          • JT

            Evasion again. Very astute.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Those are not political comments and they betray the fact that you’re too dumb to reply politically

          • JT

            You’re repeating yourself. Ingenuity failing.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Repetition is all a dullard like you deserves. Those are not political comments and they betray the fact that you’re too dumb to reply politically.

          • JT

            Keep saying it: DOMA was not overturned by SCOTUS. Just make sure everyone knows how ignorant and/or deceitful you are.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Repetition is all a dullard like you deserves. Those are not political comments and they betray the fact that you’re too dumb to reply politically.

    • bryan

      What Obama did by speaking up for our brothers and sisters. And comparing it to the struggle that black people have faced, was, as ever, incredible. The haters are going to have international sadz.

    • sherman

      No Republicon president would ever defend gay rights like that in Kenya. They won’t even do it in America. Proving yet again that Democrat=Republicon is an illusion of morans.

      • Bill_Perdue

        The Obama regime and the Democrats have the same imperialist policies as their Republican brothers and sisters and it leads to the oppression of the LGBT communities by right wing regimes all over the world. Voting for either of them is the political equivalent of dumpster diving and those who do so will soon learn anew, as many millions have already learned, that there is no such thing as ‘lesser’ garbage or ‘lesser’ evils.

        On November 8, 2016 vote Socialist or Labor, vote for good referendums and if there aren’t any Left candidates write in Chelsea Manning or join the majority in sitting it out.

        It’s always better not to vote at all than to vote for our enemies, Democrats and Republicans.

        “It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don’t want and get it.” – Eugene V. Debs

        • JT

          So, in other words, be complicit in the election of wingnuts who are trying to allow violence and injustice against us in this country?

          • zhera

            Yup. Sit out the election and watch the religious right destroy over the world. All with Bill Perdue’s blessing.

          • JD

            Turning off voters (whether through negative advertising that people reject or gerry-mandering) is a strategy now being brought to Canada (again) by the Harper government. Turned off voters don’t vote and that favours the status quo. It is critical to vote, but one answer to the situation may be to rally a protest vote or support an individual whose values align in numbers that send a msg.

          • Bill_Perdue

            In the US voters are turned off by endless wars, government scabbing, government spying, health care for the insurance companies and endless racist murders, fake drug prosecutions and discrimination among other things.

            Voting favors the status quo. Not voting helps shatter it.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Obama is the religious right, and he is destroying nation after nation.

          • JT

            So you are a troll.

          • Bill_Perdue

            No, you’re a troll.

          • JT

            By the measure of the number of absurd comments made, you win the honor.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Those are not political comments and they betray the fact that you’re too dumb to reply politically.

          • JT

            Those dumb comments which you claim are not political are ones you think only smart people can respond appropriately to. Now that’s funny.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Those are not political comments and they betray the fact that you’re too dumb to reply politically.

          • JT

            Repetition again. It doesn’t get better with repitition.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Those are not political comments and they betray the fact that you’re too dumb to reply politically.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Democrats are the wingnuts.

          • JT

            Wow. You’re a nutter.

          • Bill_Perdue

            That is not a political comments and it betrays the fact that you’re too dumb to reply politically.

            HRH HRC is a religious nut. Thats why you like her. “Hillary’s Prayer: Hillary Clinton’s Religion and Politics For 15 years, Hillary Clinton has been part of a secretive religious group that seeks to bring Jesus back to Capitol Hill. Is she triangulating—or living her faith?” “In fact, Clinton’s God talk is more complicated—and more deeply rooted—than either fans or foes would have it, a revelation not just of her determination to out-Jesus the gop, but of the powerful religious strand in her own politics. … Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship.” http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-hillary-clintons-religion-and-politics

        • Silver Badger

          Like it or not, Bill, we must to work within the system we have. I’m in my 60’s and have seen incredible change in my rights as a gay man; especially under President Obama. Is he perfect? No he is human. Has he been a good friend? Not only yes, but Hell Yes. If we get stuck with any Republican, you will be remembering the good years under Obama.

          • Bill_Perdue

            The system ‘we’ have is characterized by unbridled warmongering, racism and a 40 year attack on the standard of living of working people.

            People don’t have to work within that system and increasingly, they don’t. They reject the Democrats and the Republicans. They move left of opt out of farcical elections altogether. That’s a good thing.

            Obama is a Republican. So is HRH HRC. “The truth of the matter is that my policies are so mainstream that if I had set the same policies that I had back in the 1980s, I would be considered a moderate Republican.” Obama, in an interview with Noticias Univision
            23. ABC News, 12 15 2012

            http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/Politics/obama-considered-moderate-republican-1980s/story?id=17973080.

          • JT

            The claim that Obama and the Republicans are alike on gay rights is absurd for many reasons. Here’s one. Had there been a Republican in office instead, there would have been no SCOTUS majority for same sex marriage.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Obama is a rebranded bigot who torpedoed marriage in California. You Democrats like to pretend that didn’t happen but it.

            Obama’s appointees didn’t ensure our victory over Democrat Bill Clintons DOMA. The LGBT communities did. Try reading some history.

          • JT

            It’s funny because those victories were by SCOTUS decisions. So, I guess then that you subscribe to something like Santorum’s theory of the Supreme Court? You might try reading some recent history.

          • Bill_Perdue

            RIF. Those victories were won, some in the courts and some in the streets, solely by the efforts of the LGBT communities. Obama has nothing to do with it.

            I have no idea what Santorum thinks, but I doubt that he encourages mass action to force them to comply with LGBT equality. I imagine that he thinks a lot like his good friend, ally and fellow right wing lunatic, HRH HRC.

            Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. ” … Clinton’s prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or “the Family”) … The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God’s plan. …With Santorum, Clinton co-sponsored the Workplace Religious Freedom Act… http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-hillary-clintons-religion-and-politics?page=3

          • JT

            So now you’re denying that DOMA was overturned by SCOTUS. Do you realize how ignorant that makes you look?

          • Bill_Perdue

            Stop lying. Learn to read. Get a grip.

            It doesn’t matter in which arena we overturned your parties DOMA It only matters that the Democrats DOMA was overturned solely as a result of the efforts, courage and tenacious militancy of the LGBT communities.

          • 2karmanot

            OhMyGod…Obama a good friend, seriously? He simply walked in at the end of the last act to take credit for decades of our sacrifice, blood and enormous courage. Until we turned the tide he was still pussy-footing around marriage between one man and one woman, which he supported against our right to equal rights.

          • Silver Badger

            He did do the right thing eventually. Ending DADT, Gay Marriage and Global defense are more than any other American president has done.

          • Polterguest

            HE didn’t end DADT. Good lord when will that ridiculous lie go away.

          • Silver Badger

            President Obama got the credit. Who did end DADT?

          • Bill_Perdue

            Obama has invaded, occupied, aided mass murder reactionary regimes or re invaded Libya, Egypt, Palestine, Yemen, Bahrain, Syria, Bahrain, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

            He’s more of a mad dog warmonger than the pigs LBJ and Nixon ever dreamed of being.

          • Silver Badger

            As we are never going to agree, we must agree to disagree.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Yep.

        • Steven Leahy

          I think change in this country will be evolutionary not revolutionary. I would welcome a much more socialist model but we also have to acknowledge it’s not gonna happen overnight. I get your frustration, I really do, more than you probably think, but better to make steady and sustained progress than risk it all and move backwards.

          • Bill_Perdue

            You’ll notice that I’ve never called for building barricades and arming people.

            Things are always ‘evolutionary’ and then there’s a social break and they become revolutionary. 1775 and 1859 here, 1788 in France, 1917 in Russia and 1959 in Cuba, 1962 in Algeria, etc, etc.

            Things are heating up across the world and there is a likelihood of prerevolutionary situations in a number of places. The question is who will be on our side when those events occur.

          • JT

            By the way, the history of socialism, communism and Marxism is not good on gay issues. Socialism may be right on the subject now and may have a lot of things going for it. But socialists, communists and Marxists claimed for years that homosexuality was a “disease” of capitalism, in much the same way that in some quarters now there is the implication that homosexuality is the result of colonialism or Western “decadence.” It took some time for socialists to drop that BS.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Some did and some didn’t. Again, read history to correct your many gross misconceptions. “In 1917, the Russian Revolution saw the overthrow of the Tsarist government, and the subsequent foundation of the Russian SFSR, the world’s first socialist state, followed by the founding of the Soviet Union after the end of the civil war in 1922. The new Communist Partygovernment eradicated the old laws regarding sexual relations, effectively legalising homosexual activity within Russia, although it remained illegal in other former territories of the Russian Empire. Under Lenin’s leadership, openly gay people were allowed to serve in government. In 1933, the Soviet government, under the leadership of Joseph Stalin, recriminalised homosexual activity with punishments of up to five years’ hard labor. “

            But at their worst none were as bad as American capitalist thugs like Democrat Bill Clinton who gave us DADT and DOMA and Bush who pushed for state DOMAs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_history_in_Russia

          • JT

            Right. Stalin’s gulags and secret police and criminalization of same sex relationships were worse than Clinton. Keep saying absurd things like that. They really help your case.

          • Bill_Perdue

            When will you stop lying?

            We’re discussing bigots, not death camps. The camps were not anti-gay camps – they were anti leftist camps. Stalin was a rightist, stalinists are rightists. They are not socialists. That’s why Stalinists had no problem fitting into the Democrat party. Only really dense people don’t know that.

            Millions of leftists, gay and straight, died in those camps. But that has nothing to do with your attempt to ignore DOMA, DADT and the betrayal of marriage equality in 2008 by the rebranded bigot Obama.

            Get a grip. Learn to read. Stop lying.

          • JT

            You’re hilarious. You’ve been doing nothing but spreading falsehoods since you started.

            Stalin’s gulags were forced labor camps where people lived in horrendous conditions and millions died. He perpetrated genocide on many communities in the USSR. Many outrages against minorities, ethnic and sexual, have been committed in communist countries.

            Again, you really do need to wear something other than selective lenses when you’re trying to find things to blame on Clinton and Obama. DOMA was overturned by SCOTUS by a majority constituted mainly of appointees by Clinton and Obama.

          • Bill_Perdue

            You’re a reactionary Democrat who can’t read, invents strawmen and can’t even demolish your own strawmen.

            And you’re a lair. Your party’s DOMA was beaten back by the efforts of the LGBT communities and not by the bigots who run the Democrat party.

          • JT

            I’m a reactionary Democrat? You are dialectically punch drunk and making even less sense than before.

          • Bill_Perdue

            Are your a reactionary Republican? a reactionary Libertarian? It doesn’t matter, you rightists are all the same.

          • JT

            I thought you had it all worked out.

          • Bill_Perdue

            I do have it all worked out. You’re a right wing defender of the party that gave us DOMA and DADT.

        • sherman

          And JMG’s personal moran blithers on…

          • Bill_Perdue

            Enjoy your garbage but don’t try to feed it to decent people.

      • gaymex

        Oh fuck, you went there.

        • Bill_Perdue

          …..

  • JT

    Kenyan President now trying to sidestep the issue of gay rights saying there’s a difference in cultures and it is not an issue in the forefront for Kenya.

    Then there was some clapping but not much.

    • bryan

      The Kenyan President said gay rights were not something Kenyans were thinking about. And yet, they think about it enough to make consensual gay sex a crime. Punishable by 14 years.

      • JT

        Yes, that’s disgusting. It was a snow job. Kenyatta was trying not to oppose Obama but to say they had other priorities. He clearly did not get (or want to address) Obama’s point about the laws of a country being used to punish groups of people who are considered less than.

    • bambinoitaliano

      That’s the problem. Somehow they see the gay issue as American cultures like the music of Elvis or Prince.

      • JT

        Ignorance is bliss and sees only what it wants to. “It can’t be part of our culture and so it must be due to foreign influence.”

        • bambinoitaliano

          Yet no word about the import of jeebus and the churches.

  • BudClark

    h/t to the World Congress of Families, NOM, Brian Brown, Scott Lively, and the Ukrainian Orthdox “Church.”

    • bambinoitaliano

      Someday I like to see them punished for crime against humanity.

      • Silver Badger

        We’re working on it. One bigot at a time. So many bigots, so little time, sigh. At least they help by shooting their own feet!

  • Octavio

    First, the “gays” in the video are trolling for trouble.
    Second, in the 1970s in the Castro and Twin Peaks areas of SF we responded to the gay bashing, stabbings and shootings by organizing our own gay thugs who were quite effective in beating the shit out of anyone caught causing trouble. The SF Police told us not to get involved, but they were of little help until the end of that decade. Yeah, you might no like it, but when our oppressors discovered their aggression would be met with burly muscle queens wielding Louisville Sluggers, the incidences of bashing declined.

    • Sk3ptic

      Preach!!

    • another_steve

      Hear ya, Octavio, but there is zero analogy — zero — to be made between the 2015 “queer in the gay ghetto” experience and the 2015 “queer in the rest of America” experience. Two entirely different experiences.

      In many parts of America — even in urban America — you risk life and limb just by coming out to your neighbors. More and more of us are doing it, but it’s not without risk. I cringe when I occasionally read in the gay blogosphere calls for people to come out publicly and vocally, wherever they live.

      We need more activists, yes. But we need to stay safe too.

      • bambinoitaliano

        True. In today’s world especially in America, gun is far more accessible. The tit for tat could escalate and turn into a full blown war. I’m not going to shrink and not defend ourselves but we have to gauge the situation and not bait into a full confrontation of wild wild west.

      • Soren456

        A paean to closetry.

        Coming out has been the single most powerful tool to get us where we are today—and the most individually freeing.

        Yet you “cringe” when you read of it.

        And then you misstate who does it. “Activists”? Only activists come out? What pure nonsense.

        There are dangers, and they are significant for some of us, and should be weighed—but always with a view to beginning a real life.

        There are several ways to come out, they all involve telling other people, and each has its power and its freedom.

        Cringing gets you nowhere.

        • another_steve

          Well that’s the “Hyper-PC, Totally Out of Touch with Reality” response, Soren. One does see a lot of that on the gay blogs.

          Do all of us a favor and don’t impose your hyper-PCism on the rest of us, okay? There are lots and lots of people here in the United States who cannot come out without losing their jobs, their homes, and the love of their families and friends. Sad that, but it’s called “reality.”

          I’m guessing some of those folks are reading here at the moment.

          I think you owe them an apology.

          • GarySFBCN

            “Hyper-PC, Totally Out of Touch with Reality”

            You put that sentence in quotes. Who are you quoting? Rush Limbaugh? Donald Trump?

            You think it was SAFE for our brothers and sisters in the Stonewall Inn to start a riot? You think it was SAFE for thousands of us rioting at the injustice of the Dan White ruling? You think it was SAFE to march in the first decade of gay pride parades in San Francisco?

            You are an embarrassment. You reap the rewards of those who risked a hell of a lot and have the audacity to echo words (such as PCism) used by those who are our enemies.

            Fuck off, judgmental prick.

          • 2karmanot

            Bingo!

          • Silver Badger

            Soren456 owes no apology. Living a lie is worth none of the reasons you list above. How does it go…one who sacrifices freedom for safety receives neither? The quote’s not perfect, but you get the idea.

          • Soren456

            Oh Jesus.

            You forgot to type that in all caps.

            While you’re fixing it, I’ll stick with what I said.

            (You might actually read it.)

          • GarySFBCN

            lol!

          • another_steve

            “…but always with a view to beginning a real life.”

            Your words, Soren. Care to explain them?

            Yes or no — If I’m a 16-year-old lesbian living at home in rural Georgia with my redneck God-fearin’ and gun-totin’ parents, I don’t have a “real life” until and unless I come out to them?

            My life is not “real”?

          • Schlukitz

            When can we expect a rousing lecture on how your Catlick hubby and the RC Church singlehandedly advanced the cause of civil rights for the LGBT community?

          • Steven Leahy

            LOL there was a guy over on LGBT nation doing that, I was going at it with him.

          • Schlukitz

            Number of up votes for comments responding to another steve = 23

            Number of up votes for comments made by another steve = 0

            Gee…I wonder who won that argument? ;-P

          • Soren456

            “Real life” is utterly individual, but I can’t believe that maintaining a facade behind which is hidden one’s most beautiful ability to appreciate and to love contributes to it in any positive way.

            Even so, I take your point. If I were to alter my post, I would use the term “fuller life” or “freed life”—insisting also that the person involved would see the difference.

            And my statement against your position would stay unchanged.

          • they “can’t” come out, or they WON’T?

            if you’re stating, in any way, that those of us who are Out have had it “easy” you can apologize to the MILLIONS of LGBT people who came out, despite facing exactly what you’re passing off as an excuse to NOT come out.

            people have been coming out for decades. in times far more unforgiving than today. stop making excuses for grown adults in north america in 2015 to not do what we’ve been doing for bloody decades.

          • Steven Leahy

            Steve I think there are different ways you can come out and still be effective and be true to yourself. I do agree that coming out in a large urban gay ghetto (where LG people have strength in numbers) and rural mid-America are two totally different things but we all need to do our part.

            One can acknowledge who he/she is to family, friends and co-workers to start, yes it’s tough and yes you’ll lose some things but you will gain self respect and find out who your real friends and allies are. I did it and so have many others, and I have spent most of my life in LGBT-repressive areas of this country. Not easy but coming out is THE most important thing an LGBT person can do for the overall movement, not to mention giving one real peace with oneself.

          • another_steve

            Steven, just like Harvey Milk said back in the 70s, coming out is the most important political act any queer person can do. It’s more important than writing letters to the editor of your local newspaper or participating in protests and demonstrations.

            But the process is a very person-specific one. It’s not “one size fits all.”

            I cringe when I hear people suggest that closeted people are not living “real” or “full” lives. I’ve been out for almost 45 years, but I remember what my life was like in the closet. It was a “real” life. It was as “full” as I could make it without being thrown out of my parents’ house at the time.

            We — all of us — need to watch our rhetoric. People in the closet, deeply in the closet, are reading here.

            Their lives are “real” and as “full” as their life circumstances permit.

          • Steven Leahy

            Steve I get what you’re saying but as time advances I am having less and less sympathy (particularly in countries that generally have gay-favorable climates ) for people “choosing” to stay in the closet. I don’t think it’s out of necessity so much anymore as it is cowardice and wanting the best of both worlds. I came out in the early 80’s, was in the military at the time, and had NO support from anyone except one sister.

            My experience is echoed by many here and for many is even often much worse than that. I have spent most of my life in downstate Illinois, Indiana, Texas and Nebraska – all somewhat to very hostile towards LGBT people though that is changing. I lost friends, endured harassment, had people reject me. Sucks but I lived through it and wouldn’t change a thing. I have to be able to live with myself before I can live with anyone else. The more of us that hetero society sees and knows as real people, the more we’ll advance.

          • another_steve

            I appreciate your sharing your personal story like that with me, Steven.

            If our once having been in the closet taught us anything, surely it’s that the decision to emerge, gradually or all at once, is deeply personal and challenging. As I suggested in another comment here, it’s not “one size fits all.”

            So I strive to remember what it was like, and give to others the understanding that I wished others were giving to me when I was still in the closet.

          • GarySFBCN

            “We — all of us — need to watch our rhetoric.”

            Says the man who echos right-wing nutcases by shouting “PC” this and “far left” that to anything that he disagrees with.

            But today’s insult from you, “hyper PC”, wins the Roy Cohn/Joseph McCarthy prize for “hyper hypocrisy”.

            Yeah, let other people come out and face adversity so you can hide in your pathetic bunker, swilling cheap gin and judging others who have worked tirelessly and risked a lot so you can have your rights.

          • Schlukitz

            You owe me an apology.

      • Schlukitz

        Thank you for your customary, Mary, Mary, quite contrary comment.

    • Steven Leahy

      Sorry Octavio though I usually agree with you I see this from a different slant.

      Not sure why we see this as “trolling for trouble” – until we reach the day where LGBT people can walk down the street and do the exact same things their heterosexual counterparts do without fear of attack, we have a problem. In many areas of THIS country we still can’t do that.

      I will say I am somewhat pleased that though there were still lots of stares and comments, it was all much less vitriolic overall that what we saw in the Moscow video.

      The protestors in the 1960’s who intentionally occupied whites-only lunch counters and bus seats were also “trolling for trouble” in this sense as they knew what the reaction would be, but it had to be done.

      I commend these guys for their bravery and as we all know most LGBT people don’t have the concentrated numbers that the LG community in the Castro had in the 1970’s, which makes it all the more difficult.

      Visibility is the the key. Once people know us they start to change.

      • Octavio

        We’ll have to disagree. They would have impressed me more had they walked hand-in-hand with a posse of protectors camouflaged in the crowd who suddenly defended them against the bullies. The bullies didn’t learn anything.

        • Steven Leahy

          I guess we will. I think real protection and freedom will come when heterosexual allies defend them and there is social stigma attached to being anti-gay. We’re seeing that trend in most of the west though we’re not all the way there yet. Having people around to protect us is not a realistic option for most of us so today probably not realistic in most places. Might backfire anyway and that would really been as a staged provocation by the population at large. Either way, I think people should be free to express themselves and when we start condemning our own for starting “trouble” I disagree. The brave trailblazers are the ones who pave the way for everyone else.

        • i think the point was not to “teach the bullies a lesson” but to show everyone the galling extremes of anti-gay hatred.

          • Octavio

            That’s too much like standing in front of a speeding driver to show that you’ll get killed when he hits you. What’s the point. We all know you’re going to suffer. That’s a given.

          • the point is that some people still don’t realize it. truly. i know that seems staggering, but when i posted this video on Facebook it was alarming how many of my (non-gay) friends dropped their jaws at it.
            what’s “a given” to those of us In The Know isn’t to those who don’t have our specific experiences as gay people – don’t get me wrong, i’m the type who’ll punch a bigot in the neck should they harass me in anyway, done it before and will likely have to again in life, but this video was to wake up everyone who still thinks we’re not the daily victims of violent abuse.

          • Soren456

            I agree with Octavio. To me, this was purely a stunt, useless to anything in its surroundings. It taught no lesson.

            Onlookers learned nothing because they have no means to grasp what is being “said” to them.

            But I will also agree that outside Ukraine, in friendlier places, it carries some power.

          • Veylon

            I’m afraid that I’m one of those jaw-droppers. I’m straight, white, male – and pass for Christian – in a time and place where all of those things are plusses. Nobody’s going to discriminate against me.

            So it’s easy for me to assume that since it isn’t happening to me, it doesn’t happen to anybody. I did assume things like that once upon a time until I had the chance to read, hear about, and see the horrible crap other people have to go through. These videos are necessary because there are still lots of people as ignorant and complacent as I once was.

          • Steven Leahy

            Well put, appreciate your honesty.

        • 2karmanot

          Yep, rad strategies and good backup. Spraying the goons with pink paint is a nice one.

          • Steven Leahy

            I think in a place like SF which has been notoriously liberal and home to many progressive causes for decades, that strategy would have been effective as the LGBT community already had a large potential support base. I think someplace like Moscow or Kiev, with a completely different social and cultural landscape, would be a much tougher sell and might have had the opposite effect and driven more retaliation. I think these guys were brave as hell for doing what they did and I admire them, even more so daring to do it alone.

          • 2karmanot

            Yes, we were well organized in the Castro. The forces of violence (including cops) was formidable and demanded action. We took care of our own.

        • allen

          I have to agree with Steven Leahy. You protest for causes you feel passionate about whether others are willing to protect you or not. Kinda the point of protesting.

      • The narrator admits that they were trying to be provocative, which made me uncomfortable, but I think his point was to show the social dynamics behind Ukrainian homophobia. Most people think it’s funny because they’re unused to it, but aren’t hostile.

        The neo-nazi thugs that brutalized them are something different.

        I was ultimately won over by the couple.

        • Steven Leahy

          I think most people challenging any social “status quo” are going to be considered inflammatory, provocative, rocking the boat, etc. Change usually doesn’t happen until few gutsy people have the courage to do that. I am glad they did and they won me over too, easily.

    • Silver Badger

      While I totally agree with you, Octavio, I am considered a wild eyed radical by most radicals.

      • Octavio

        Which eye gives you away? Your right or your left? 🙂

        • Silver Badger

          The right one! Of course!

    • 2karmanot

      Yep, I remember those days. Pink bats and whistles!

      • Octavio

        The whistles actually worked.

        • 2karmanot

          I even joined the NRA for a spell.

          • Octavio

            Yikes! That’s being really scared.

    • Alan S. Lee

      They are activists, not trolls.

    • Aman InAmsterdam

      Trolling for trouble, like a woman wearing a sexy outfit and then getting raped – something like this you mean?

      • Soren456

        Nonsense. And unfair.

        “Trolling for trouble” can stand on its own, and it describes exactly what they were doing—deliberately drawing a response, expecting an attack, prepared to film it.

        This was a stunt.

      • Octavio

        No. Of course not like that. If you disagree, just disagree and not advertise what an asshole your are.

      • Thank you! These were two brave gay men, who had a much more nuanced view of homophobia than the two straight Russians who released a video last week.

        They weren’t trolling, they were testing the waters; and they did so with dignity

  • TheManicMechanic

    Tea Party Utopia.

  • Rebecca Gardner

    I see absolutely no difference in the behavior of the asshole neo-nazi fucks that attacked them than your common run of the mill evangelical or tea party person. Actually, no, I think things here in ‘Merka are far more dangerous because our crazy people don’t have pepper spray, they have semi-automatic firearms.

    • bambinoitaliano

      And they have the ears of many rethuglicans governments.

  • bambinoitaliano

    As a country if we are going to financially help others, the deal should not just be restricted to economy development and healthcare improvement. Human rights issue has to be part of the aid package.

  • Gigi

    The “tough guy” who pepper sprayed them is probably a closet case trying to prove to his friends that he’s totally, 100% not gay. I’m glad the couple is okay.

  • bob

    Yet so many of these bullies end up in gay for pay videos ! lol

  • Chris O’Guinn

    “Those two people are doing something totally innocent that doesn’t effect me one iota–SO I MUST KILL THEM!”

    Never will I understand these people.

  • BudClark

    h/t to The World Congress of Families, The International Organization For Marriage, Snot Deadly, and Brian Brownstain.

  • BudClark

    Does anyone have Scott Lively and/or Brian Brown’s e-mails and/or phone numbers? I’m in a mood to start some trouble .