Introducing Windows 10

Via Engadget:

With Windows 10’s launch little more than a week away, Microsoft kicked off its marketing storm last night with the first commercial for the new OS. It’s a bit more direct and human than the company’s infamous Jerry Seinfeld/Bill Gates ads, with a focus on children and how they’re growing up with touchscreens and a wealth of new tech. As with any major product launch, Microsoft is planning a huge multi-million dollar media blitz for Windows 10. The big theme this time around is “people who make a difference,” reports ZDNet. The software giant will likely have a much easier time pushing Windows 10 on consumers since it steps back from some of Windows 8 more dramatic (and controversial) interface changes.

  • Jake

    Did they forget 9?

    • Sam

      Actually they skipped the name Windows 9 for a reason. Back then, when windows software would check to see if it was being installed on Windows 95 or Windows 98, the coding in the software would look for “Windows9.”

      Had they gone through and kept the name, it would have likely caused a lot of problems.

    • Mike in Texas

      They skipped over it because of potential problems with references to Windows 95 and Windows 98.

    • The Windows versions have been named in so many different ways, we’re actually kind of up past Windows 11 or 12 now at least, aren’t we?

      Windows 1, 2, 3, 3.1, 3.11, 95, 98, 98SE, me, XP, Vista, 7, 8, 8.1, 10. Not to mention NT, 2000, etc. Just go with it, or go with the joke, 7 ate 9.

  • Lumpy Gaga

    For the Kids.

    Oh, barf.

  • Cuberly

    Ugh….pre-registered two of my PCs and am so not looking forward to the upgrade. But I gotta learn it sooo……gulp….Win 8 sucked donkey balls, hopefully 10 is better, from what I read it’s better but still pushing tons of other pay services like 8 did.

    • Lumpy Gaga

      SInce Win’95, it’s been about the desktop as billboard.

      Back then, of course, it was pre-loaded AOL icons.

      • Kissmagrits

        And if you buy an HP, the pre-loading is serious. I spent hours with CCleaner Pro just removing all traces of their unwanted stuff and nonsense.

        • Cuberly

          HP and Lenovo are the WORST when it comes to bloatware.

          Half the time I roll out a fresh system I just wipe the disc and do a complete fresh OS install. That’s if you have a standalone installer copy of course.

          • Kissmagrits

            If that were only possible, but the price of another OS copy is prohibitive. My friend David calls registry artifacts from all HP’s promo stuff – “pecker tracks”.

          • Cuberly

            Pecker tracks, Ha!
            The downloaded installer for Windows 10 actually allows you to perform a clean install. But…….there are some caveats. If you know someone that’s a little more computer savvy they can maybe help you. This youtube vid actually addresses a lot of the pros and cons between upgrading your existing machine vs doing a clean install.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXvtTo2Qtbg

            If you do ANY upgrade or install be sure to backup your files to an external drive first. CAN’T STRESS THAT ENOUGH!!!!! Also with a clean install you’ll need the ability to reinstall your programs, either by disc or download.

            I’m a HUGE advocate for fresh installs with some hard drive maintenance beforehand.

            Hope this helps some.

        • StraightGrandmother

          I hate that when they pre-load all that extra software on a new computer.

          • Kissmagrits

            Another tip: CCleaner Pro (on CD) was also able to locate and remove some nasty malware damage this spring.
            Some outfit in India had locked up my browser and wouldn’t give it back.

      • Cuberly

        But now the billboard is large multi-Kmartesque-colored tiles, and now you click on the equivalent of the start button before you’re greeted with what looks like the remains of a dismantled rubics cube.

  • crewman

    I’ve been using Windows 10 a few months, and I recommend it. It’s so much better than Windows 8, and the upgrade from Windows 8 was very smooth.

    • barracks9

      The only thing worse than Windows 8 was Vista.

      • crewman

        Maybe Windows ME?

        • barracks9

          Close call.

          • Joe in PA

            nuh nuh nuh moose breath…it was Windows 3.0. Good grief what was that?

          • agcons

            1992-ish.

        • StraightGrandmother

          So are we agreed that we all just really liked Windows 95?

          • oikos

            Except for the constant reboots anytime you wanted to plug or unplug anything.

          • Mike in Texas

            Windows 98 was the one I hated to leave. I never really warmed up to 7, although one of my computers still runs on it. And unlike most, I like 8.1.

          • StraightGrandmother

            You must know all the secret handshakes of 8.1 is what I am thinking.

          • Mike in Texas

            There are a couple of nice little apps in the Windows store that show you all the secret handshakes. I just went through one of those when I got the gadget.

          • I like 8.1 also, though I have little use for the new style apps. I completely ignore them.

        • Kissmagrits

          Remember Mr. Paperclip? Not cute. Not cute at all – – –

          • crewman

            Hmm. You seem to be making a joke. Can I help you with that?

          • Joe in PA

            I see what you did there. šŸ™‚

          • Kissmagrits

            Oh, dear. I thought I’d forgotten that phraseology – – – and I’ve since learned his proper name is Clippy.

          • lymis

            I’m sorry, his name was Clippit, also known as Clippy.

            Philistine.

          • Kissmagrits

            Actually, I didn’t keep him around long enough to be properly introduced.

          • BlueberriesForMe

            I’d like to know the inside story of whoever thought the paperclip was a “good thing” and how much pre-market surveying was done. I’m guessing not much – MS doesn’t seem to ask “real” users what they think about possible new “features”. (See “missing Start icon” in Windows 8).

        • Rrhain

          Windows Bob

          • StraightGrandmother

            Oh yes BOB! & the paperclip!

            I figured out how to turn those off right away.

        • Cuberly

          With no exaggeration what-so-ever, Windows Me killed one of my favorite Micron computers. Yep, remember when Micron made PCs?

          After the fubar’d installation of Me I could never get another fresh OS to install on it. (Insert a cornet playing taps here.)

    • Please tell me they got rid of those damn “charms” that pop out from the right-hand side of the screen. Please???

      • crewman

        There are notifications that pop up on the right. I kind of like them. Much better than what was there. You can easily configure them not to show though if they are annoying. All the charms off screen that were so unintuitive are gone.

        • Thank you for that answer! It sounds promising.

      • StraightGrandmother

        What are the charms?

        Is that on the right hand side where you have to swipe in order to see if your internet connection is on? is that the charms?

        • crewman

          Yes, that’s what the charms are. Those menus you have to use gestures to get to, which may make some sense on a tablet or phone if you know they’re there, but are very cumbersome and unfriendly on a desktop computer.

        • Mike in Texas

          Put your mouse in the lower right corner to make them pop out or just hit the Windows key plus C or swipe left from the right margin of the screen.

          • StraightGrandmother

            You know Mike I do not think this is progress, everything you wrote is a secret move. It is not intuitive, it’s another damned secret move that those in the know know about and the rest of us don’t. It is no better than having to memorize DOS commands if you ask me. You couldn’t do anything in DOS unless you read about & learned the commands, you can’t do anything on these touch screens unless you go searching on the Internet to find out how to do something.

            I like Menu Bars & drop down Menus, at least what I have to click is not some secret handshake, what I want to do iS gonna be on one of the Menus.

          • Joe in PA

            as a wise friend said recently: technology has failed us.

            But then I learn the new stuff, and I love it. Hmmm.

          • Mike in Texas

            Yes … that’s the way it goes. It’s a pain to learn new habits. But once they’ve sunk in, you wonder why you ever thought it was difficult.

          • Octavio

            Joe in PA: You might just be a secret closet-case nerd. šŸ™‚

          • Mike in Texas

            Well I don’t think the Win+xx commands are any different than other keyboard commands like CTRL+C or CTRL+V. I became very accustomed to keyboard commands during the Wordstar/Wordperfect for DOS days, so those have not been an issue for me. To this day I will use keyboard commands before menus if I happen to know the keyboard command.

            I first came to Window 8 with a touchscreen tablet on which Windows 8 makes absolutely perfect sense, so my learning curve was about 20 minutes.

            Unfortunately Windows 8 isn’t so friendly for mouse/keyboard combinations.Their big error was making it one size is supposed to fit all. From what I’ve been reading, they have learned that lesson and have taken care of it.

            No need to rush into an upgrade, though. You will have 12 months to do it, after which it will no longer be free.

          • Mike in Texas

            Ok … Here is a guide to all the secret handshakes. Fire up your Win 8 machine and search the Windows Store for “Windows 8 Cheat Keys.” It’s a non-touch guide that lists all the magical keyboard commands using that key with the Windows logo that so few seem to use. For example to get the Charms, just press Win+C. It you want the Power Menu, use Win+X. (It’s what comes up when you right click the Start Button on the Desktop, but you can also bring it from the Modern Screen this way.) You certainly don’t need all these secret handshakes, just the ones that do things you normally do.

        • Yes. They pop out on me constantly. I can be typing and not touching the mousepad and they’ll pop out and in. Very annoying. . . .

    • Droz

      Is there any hope for those of us clinging to WMC because of CableCard support?

      • crewman

        I don’t know. I’ve never really used WMC. My boyfriend complained during one of the beta builds that WMC was gone. I don’t know if it got added back or if it’s really gone for good.

    • another_steve

      Crewman, in non-jargon language, can you tell me what the advantages of Windows 10 are, compared with Windows 7?

      I’m not a very “sophisticated” PC user. I use the computer for Internet, email, and Word. No phone. No game-playing. Nothing fancy.

      Not clear if there’s any reason for me to go to 10.

      Would appreciate some advice. Thanks.

      • crewman

        Whether to upgrade is tough. In some ways, if what you have is working why change it. Especially if your hardware is older and is working well with the operating system you have. But reasons to consider upgrading:
        1. Win 10 is more secure.
        2. New programs going forward will be primarily tested on Win 10 and as an afterthought on older operating systems, so as time goes on, your experience will be better on Win 10.
        3. Windows says they won’t have any more major releases, i.e. no Windows 11. Instead, they will just periodically roll out new features as they are ready. That wouldn’t port back to Win 7 obviously.

        4. New hardware (phones, tablets, TVs, keyboards, etc) over time will work smoothly with Win 10 but have problems with Win 7.

        • another_steve

          Thanks for the insights, crewman.

        • Oh’behr

          Also thanks as I have Windows 7.

    • William

      Have the constant Flash crashes been fixed?

      • crewman

        Flash is on a pretty quick path to be obsoleted. Google and Firefox have recently disabled it entirely due to yet another critical security flaw. And more and more sites have quit using it in favor of HTML 5 built-in video players which all modern browsers support.

        • William

          Good!

      • D. J.

        Hahahahahahahahaha…..keep dreaming. šŸ˜‰

  • Gindy51

    Not updating my Windows 7 machine for a million dollars (well maybe). This version of Windows will not let you opt out of updating the OS and that is a BIG nope for me.
    I don’t update until all the bugs are worked out, usually 2 months down the road. I check this site right before black Tuesday (2nd Tuesday of each month is when MS sends out its update recommendation). If Woody says no, I don’t update: http://www.askwoody.com/

    • Kissmagrits

      Actually, there’s three things to fret about: First, this time MS says you will have no say on when the patches arrive and install (and there will be many). Second, if the MS OS past is any guide, this system will become reasonably stable about January. Third, and this is the capper for me, Win 8.1 is nasty and irrelevant. I spent two weeks messin’ with it and restored Win 7.

  • metrored

    I don’t know if anyone in my office is going to upgrade. Most of the Windows people are still on 7. Before they gave me a MacBook Air, it took a hardware upgrade to get me off of Windows XP. Do anyone work for a company that pushes major OS upgrades to their users?

  • StraightGrandmother

    I.Hate.Windows.8
    But I really truly hate upgrading, I have always always gotten screwed over when I upgrade.
    I like menu bars and drop down menus.
    I hate it on touch screens that everything is hidden and you have to search on the internet to find out how to do something only to find out there is a secret area of the screen you have to touch.

    In Windows 8 I particularly HATE using the search feature all the time. I owned my windows 8 laptop more than a year before I fund out that if you dragged your finger down under the screen that has all the blocks on it, if you drag your finger down underneath that is exactly what I am looking for a listing of all of my apps. I hate those block things, there isn’t anything at all I like about Windows 8 and so I virtually never use it, I just use my 4 year old Mac instead. My Windows computer is tucked away in a desk drawer. Really, I disconnected everything & put it in the desk drawer. I only use it when I have to use this one graphics program that only works on Windows.

    • crewman

      Windows 8 annoyed me to no end. Windows 8.1 was a slight improvement. Windows 10 is much better. And the upgrade process went very smooth for me. I backed essential files up just in case but I didn’t need them.

      • Dick B

        Took me a day or two – but fell in love with Windows 8.1. Am I the only one? And more than that, I’m on my third Surface – the Pro3. Best computer I ever had. And I look forward to W10.

        And I’ve stayed with Nokia, now MS Lumia since, oh, about 1999. Love those phones too.

        The Surface? Starts up in 15 seconds or less. Incredible screen. OneNotes is now my favorite file cabinet – it holds all my receipts, articles, screen clips – and no more paper anything. And I can find it all on whatever device I have in my hand. Well, OK, not that one.

        But I really do look forward to Windows 10.

        • crewman

          If you like Win 8.1, 10 is that and better. I think about getting a Surface every now and then. Does it get very hot?

          • Dick B

            No, does not get hot. It can get warm somewhat, but not hot. Great part: just take off the keyboard or fold it all the way back and you’ve got a tablet. Great for reading books, watching movies, etc. But it’s a full computer – the fastest machine I’ve ever had.

            I highly recommend them. As I mentioned, my Pro3 is my third, always upgrading – and none of them have ever crashed. I do some heavy photo/art work, compose and publish music and relax with it. Couldn’t be happier with a product.

          • crewman

            I remember when I evaluated it last time I thought the kickstand angle might be a annoying because it isn’t fully flexible like if you have to sit with the laptop in your lap on a plane. Do you find that’s not a problem?

          • Dick B

            The first two were inflexible, but I didn’t find it objectionable. The Pro3 is very flexible so I don’t think you’ll have any problem.

          • Mike in Texas

            If the Surface 3 meets your needs, it does not heat up. It doesn’t even have a fan. It will bog down with heavy duty video editing or if you like to keep a dozen or so Chrome tabs open or play some of the really big video games. I don’t do any of that stuff, so it works perfectly for me.

        • Mike in Texas

          Nope, not the only one. I first came to Win 8 on a Surface RT when they first came out and had no difficulty at all. I used that tablet until last May when I got the new Surface 3 (not SP3). I’m also a Lumia fan … using a 1020 now and hoping that the rumored 1030 will materialize. I am crazy about its insane camera. And I have also become a OneNote junkie. Like you, I use it for everything. I still get a kick out of using the top button on the Surface pen to open OneNote.

          • oikos

            I have the SP2 and love it

        • oikos

          Surfaces are really nice machines. It is my only PC

    • William

      Every few months, my partner brings his work laptop home for me to de-junkify. So many upgrades and updates come with free software. Over time they bog down the system. The laptop ran Windows 8 and was upgraded to 8.1. It takes about two minutes before I am cussing like a sailor.

      • Rrhain

        Then stop using the free software. What does the OS have to do with it? Pay attention to what you’re doing when you work with your computer.

        When you leave the door open, do you blame the house for when the flies come in?

        • Joe in PA

          keyword: pay attention. Smarter people than you and me (well me anyway) are ALWAYS thinking up ways to trick the ‘dumb end user’. Don’t be too hard William! šŸ™‚

          Edit: not calling William a ‘dumb end user’. Sorry sweetie.

        • William

          I’m not the one who doesn’t uncheck the box before updating the software. I just get the fun task of removing it. The reason I end up cussing is because the idiotic Windows 8 has zero intuitive sense about it. Shutting the bloody thing off is always a treat.

          • Steven Leahy

            Maybe the box should be UN-checked by default instead of checked, so we have to consciously check it?

          • 2guysnamedjoe

            But then no one would install that crap.

          • Rrhain

            Again, that’s the fault of the third-party software. Install Java recently? They want you to install Ask.com. You have to pay attention and opt out every single time.

            That’s not Microsoft’s fault.

          • Steven Leahy

            Agree with that on MS, but either way I have a hard time always blaming the end user. So many apps require Java to run properly. I can tell you I am fairly experienced and have missed unchecking the box on my Windows machine and installing useless programs I hate many a time,

          • Rrhain

            But that’s not Windows! That happens on Mac all the time, too. That’s the fault of whoever made the install. They want to include this other piece of crap you don’t need, they’ve turned it on by default, and you always have to check every installation of everything you ever do to make sure that you’re only installing the one thing you want and not the other crapware that’s coming along for the ride.

            There is nothing the OS can do to stop it.

          • Steven Leahy

            I didn’t say it was MS’ fault specifically. You are talking MS vs. Apple as OSes and I am talking about the Windows environment vs. the Mac environment – and the windows environment right or wrong includes all the 3rd-party BS people have to deal with.

            I have NEVER been prompted to install a third-party program on an update to my Mac, ever, even for third-party programs like Adobe.

          • Rrhain

            Then you either have been outrageously lucky or simply aren’t remembering because it happens on Mac, too.

            And my experience is the complete opposite of yours: The Mac environment includes all the BS. Windows is much more functional.

            I can use my PS3 controller for games on my computer.

            It works on Windows.

            It doesn’t on Mac. Oh, it will see the controller there (after having to screw with the Bluetooth settings in order to convince it to stop ignoring the connection and actually take it), but only the joysticks work. The buttons don’t.

            And on and on and on. Windows just works. Mac always requires me to perform surgery and then give up when it turns out that it won’t work at all.

          • Sporkfighter

            That never happens with Linux.

          • Rrhain

            Yeah, right. Nobody in Linux ever uses their installer to get you to install something else.

            This isn’t an OS question. It’s the manufacturer of the software you’re installing.

          • Sporkfighter

            “Yeah, right. Nobody in Linux ever uses their installer to get you to install something else.”

            Strangely enough, the Linux community would never put up with crap like this. We’re pissed at Google for including a bit of closed-source code that allows audio input to Google Search, and many people have switched to the open-source version, Chromium.

            The reason you get so much commercial crap along with Windows is that users as a group are willing to put up with anything to get free or cheap. That’s why manufacturers put so much crap on new computers; they get a kickback from the software publishers. That’s why every free program brings a host of other “free” programs.

            If you use Windows, you are part of a group that largely puts up with shit, so that’s what you get. Your choices are
            1) leave the group.
            2) fight a long, hard battle to keep the crap at bay.
            3) give up and live with it.

          • Bad Tom

            No, it’s Oracle’s fault; Oracle owns Java.

        • Steven Leahy

          It’s easy to miss sometimes.

      • Cuberly

        Oh gawd…toolbars. The bane of browsers and IT Depts.

        Our head of HR clicked on some random spam email offering coupons and it sent her to a site insisting she install their toolbar. and SHE DID!

        I had to research all over the web on how to find the registry changes and downloaded crap it infested. Major nightmare.

        Was able to clean it out……but, a few months later she did the exact same thing.

        Rule #1 if you don’t know who sent the email, and especially if it has links in the email. DON’T CLICK ON THEM!

        sorry bit of a PTSD rant there…..lol…..

    • Kissmagrits

      Have you noticed that most of the commercial suppliers
      (Dell, Hp, Lenovo) offer dual-boot versions with Win 7 and 8.1? So, you’re not alone.

    • vorpal

      Oh, dear, you know it is time for bed (almost midnight here in Rome) when you read this as:

      if you drag your finger down underneath that is exactly what I am looking for a fisting of all of my apps

      • Joe in PA

        oh my.

  • ErikDC

    I used to love Windows, but Mac OS X is simply better. The only reason people still use Widows is the same reason I clung to it for so long, even while using Mac hardware ā€“ it’s familiar.

    I played around with Windows 10 preview. It did not make me want to purchase a copy for bootcamp.

    • ian

      Yup. I too switched to Mac OS. Never looked back.

      • Sashineb

        Same with me. My first iMac was the first flat-screen model they made, back in 2002. I wouldn’t switch back.

        • Octavio

          Using a 6+ year-old Macbook Pro with the 17″ screen right now. I’ve had a few keys replaced and I’ve replaced and upgraded the RAM, but it still works just fabu.

          • Sashineb

            A friend still has his 2008 iMac (he also has a new one from a year ago), but the older one still works fine. It’s low on RAM (only 4GB) but he said it still works and he uses it at the cottage.

          • Octavio

            I’ve heard from many people that they had problems with their Macs, but I’ve never had a problem. I did spill a glass of water that made it into my keyboard and needed to have the hard drive replaced because it shorted out. But that was my fault. One day this old Macbook will simply die. And in anticipation for that moment I due semi-regular back ups of everything on a flash drive. But I’m addicted to the lighted keyboard that magically illuminates when it gets dark at night.

          • Sashineb

            On my 2002 iMac, the display went wonky after about a year. The motherboard needed to be replaced. Fine, it was under Applecare 3 year warranty. Then, the new motherboard went nuts just before the 3 year warranty expired. It turns out that an initial batch of motherboards was bad and that affected the displays. There were tons of complaints on the Apple Support pages. So, back to the shop to get the MB replaced again, and this time they said they definitely had the one that was not part of the first release. So, it worked fine. I spilled a bit of water on the keyboard but once it dried out, all was OK. My 2009 and 2013 iMacs have been very reliable, sturdy, fast and a pleasure to work with. I wish I could say the same about all the PCs I’ve used but several of them crashed very easily (the infamous blue screen.)

          • StraightGrandmother

            Yes, the Blue Screen of Death is what I called it.

          • Sashineb

            Exactly, and nothing would remedy it except for re-imaging the computer. I don’t know how many times I had to do that, but that was why I started taking the Mac advice seriously.

      • ErikDC

        It’s also not just the OS. The hardware is more durable. I got tired of always feeling like I needed a new laptop after just a year of usage. After a year, all my PC’s looked like junk. With Apple, you pay a little more, but it lasts longer.

        • Octavio

          And the aesthetic design of Macs is just better. It’s like owning designer Bang Olufsen sound equipment in the 70s and 80s. Nice Zen factor. šŸ™‚

          • ErikDC

            I have no idea who or what Bang Olusen is, but it sounds nice. šŸ™‚

          • MDB
          • Octavio

            They are one of the few electronic manufacturers who still make high end component systems. If you have a tuner from the 1970s you have a work of art that still holds up and functions just fine. The 21st Century stuff is mostly radiant heat and motion sensitive with regard to the controls. The futuristic designs of the 70s and 80s are pretty much history. But components from those decades are still in high demand. Amazing stuff. Definitely MOMA material and it still works!

          • ErikDC

            Idk. My parents have an old receiver and I think it’s a piece of junk. It weighs like 100 pounds! I’ve never bothered to take note of the model. It looks 70s-ish.

          • Octavio

            Research it. Those things are worth $$$$$!

            As for weighing a hundred+ pounds and thinking of stuff as junk, I’ve got a small collection (like 4) 1930-40s era radio consoles. The tubes are a pain to replace. But there is enough room in the suckers to easily hook up a small digital receiver/amp still controlled by all of the knobs (BOSE has a kit). Those old speakers can be easily blown out, but there nothing quite as warm and inviting as those giant pieces of furniture glowing in a room playing music or listening to the news. They’re worth tons o’ billies, too. šŸ™‚

          • barracks9

            Not just art, but breathtaking sound that blew my mind every time my uncle would show us what it was really capable of.

          • Octavio

            I made a major typo. It’s spelled Bang Olufsen. Sorry about that. šŸ™‚

          • Steven Leahy

            Agree with you. The hardware is much more solid, the sound is better, everything just seems to fit a lot better. A lot of it is stuff that’s not immediately obvious but you see when you use them back to back. You can get Windows machines as aesthetically nice as a Mac but when you price them, they’re as much or more.

            That said, I know many people can just not realistically afford a Mac when you can get a comparable or better-equipped in terms of features Windows machine for half the price.

          • StraightGrandmother

            ok, so I’m going to tell you how ignorant I was. One time Microsoft pushed through an upgrade and then I could no longer use my CD/DVD drive. It royally pissed me off. It just didn’t recognize it and I was sick & tired of every time Microsoft pushed through an upgrade something didn’t work. So I went to aan Apple store and looked at their laptops, Pricey!, but I was going to get one. Never even looked at the Macs went right to laptop, and had picked one out. The sales rep while walking me to the back to pay says, “Have you seen our new iMacs?” Why no I hadn’t so I looked at it and said, but where is the CPU, I’m looking under the display table to see how big the CPU is, he says, “There isn’t one, everything is built in it is right behind the screen.” I said, “Really?” I thought for about 30 seconds and then dropped the laptop and bought my iMac. I have been very happy with it but not completely happy. It makes me do extra push buttons whenever I want to print, and changing margins in Word is a PIA, but so far it has not been subject to upgrade disasters (that I know of).

            I do like Windows better but I hate version 8 on a laptop, what the hell, to play solitare & watch a movie at the same time I have to use split screen & not regular Windows, that annoys the hell out of me. Going to a split screen was like going backwards in technoligical time. I like windows, I like to resize my windows and I hate the clumsiness of split screen in Windows 8. I have an iPad Air & it bugs me that I can’t have 2 things on the screen at the same time.

          • Rrhain

            For your first example, that’s a question of drivers. It was not “pushed” but rather you agreed to have it updated. Old equipment requires drivers for the new OS. It is not Microsoft’s fault that your old equipment isn’t up to snuff.

            This is especially true for Mac given that there are no user-serviceable parts. They have the best upgrade policy around: When your Mac gets old, just throw it away and buy a new one. Buying the new MacBook with a USB C port? Gonna need a whole bunch of adapters to use your old equipment with it.

            And there’s no reason why you can’t watch your movie in a Desktop video window. I agree, the default vision of Windows 8 assuming you’re using a tablet was a poor decision. But, it was never the only option. Windows Media Player still runs on the Desktop.

          • StraightGrandmother

            However Microsoft games do not run in a window, they only run on a split screen. Plus I made the mistake of clicking something about an X-Box the first time I went to play the games that were NOT included in the operating system & I had to go download (can you believe it they REMOVED Freecell & Spider Solitary!). The first time I clicked on something about X-Box now every time I want to play Freecell I have to wait while it tries to find my non existent x-box, eventually it gives up and asks if I want to play anyway even though it can’t find my x-box, I say yes and then finally I am able to play my card games.

            The card games only play in a frame, not a window and are not resizable, I can split the screen and watch a movie on the other half of the screen, but that is not a resizable window. Plus then remember I can only have two things up at a time on a split screen.

            That might be nice on a cell phone but it sucks of a full sized big screen laptop where I have plenty of real estate to have several things going at the same time if I want. The damned games do not play in a window, and PLUS they are not included, you have to go find them & download them (free download). I think they did that to force you to register with their store. They make you go to their store to get the free games.

          • Rrhain

            If you mean the current games they’ve come out with, yes. Again, they had this vision of Windows 8 that assumed everybody was working on a tablet and thus you only could do one thing at a time. The Desktop was for “work” and why would play a game while “working”? This was a stupid decision, I agree.

            This is one of the changes made with Win10: They realized that not everybody is on a tablet. Some people need to have multiple windows open and all on the Desktop at the same time.

            Now, whether they have decided to include their mini games in those apps that can run on the Desktop is another decision. Let’s hope they did it right.

          • StraightGrandmother

            Rrhain, I actually still prefer Windows, but the OLD Windows, not this split screen for games on a laptop in version 8. And all these secret moves you have to learn about. Everything is hidden in version 8. I just plain like menu bars & drop down menus. I don’t want to use Search, I want File Explorer. I have my version 8 in a desk drawer but I finally found File Explorer and put a shortcut on my desktop for it. They should have never put version 8 on a laptop I don’t think.

            I do like the onscreen keyboard, sometimes at night if I am on JMG and can’t get to sleep the on screen keyboard is handy to write short texts. If you are in bed & you don’t want to turn on the light to see your keyboard because your husband is sleeping next to you, the on screen keyboard is very nice. I do use some of the touch features but I also use a mouse with it.

            Taking the menu bar & drop down menus away was waaaay to radical for me. I want those on a laptop. I don;t want to have to swipe to a new screen, I just want to look up at the top to the Menu bar.

          • Steven Leahy

            A lot of end users just want to turn it on and use it. Nothing wrong with that either.

          • Rrhain

            Who said it was wrong? But you’re blaming the software for a hardware problem. As I described above, my HP printer doesn’t print in color on a Mac.

            This isn’t Apple’s fault but HP’s fault. They decided that with the changes in OSX Yosemite, they simply weren’t going to update the driver for my printer. The driver for Windows still works, even in 8.1, and I have to use my Windows machine if I want to print in color.

            Plug-and-play works in Windows. The reason you might have trouble is because the PC realm, not having a centralized authority like Apple, relies upon the manufacturer of the device to do the job of making it work. With Apple, you aren’t allowed to sell it in the first place without having Apple sign off on it.

          • Steven Leahy

            I was replying to your posts where you have a tendency to blame the user for his/her troubles because it’s not MS’s fault and why did you or didn’t you do this?

            Apple has its issues but at the end of the day the overall Mac environment is preferable to a lot of people, who don’t want to hassle with drivers and finding solutions because what they assume will work doesn’t.

          • Rrhain

            And I am not “blaming the user.” What I am doing is pointing out that the problem is not the OS but something else. The fact that HP no longer makes a driver for my printer for the Mac is not Apple’s fault. It’s HP’s.

            And I have the exact opposite experience from you: I don’t want to have the hassle of drivers and finding solutions because what I assume will work doesn’t: That’s why I prefer Windows. It just works. Every time I try to get something basic to work on a Mac, I find out that it just doesn’t do that. From the most basic things like having a right-click button on the laptop to that damned universal menu bar.

            Clearly, people like the Mac. It wouldn’t exist as a product if people didn’t like it. But the complaints about how “things are easier on a Mac” simply aren’t true just because Apple uses it as a marketing slogan. Especially when people blame Windows for things that aren’t Windows’ fault.

            Nobody told me when I got my Mac that my printer wouldn’t work anymore. I don’t blame Apple for that.

            And yet, when the new version of Windows comes out and people find that their old hardware doesn’t work with it, it’s somehow Windows’ fault.

          • Steven Leahy

            Well, I guess we can agree to disagree šŸ™‚

            I will comment on your third paragraph… my switch to Mac has nothing to do with Apple’s marketing. I resisted Apple in fact and used x86 and DOS/Windows platforms since PC DOS and Win 3.0. I went through all the Win 95/98/Me iterations, then Vista, then XP, then 8. I played with BeOS (two versions), OS/2 (3 and 4) and multiple Linux iterations. Tried them all and the overall, most fluid, pleasant, satisfying experience has been on the Mac Air with OS X that I bought three years ago. I get your point that the experience is far broader than just the OS but the experience was what made me spend most of my time on the Mac, not a marketing ploy. I’m just a bit brighter than that šŸ™‚

          • Cuberly

            What’s the model info for the printer?
            Which Mac OS version are you using?

            Sometimes you can find a Gutenprint driver that will work.

          • Rrhain

            Oh, I know I can find a third-party driver. That’s not the point. HP has decided to no longer support the printer on Mac but still do on Windows. When Windows updates and drivers for older hardware are no longer carried, people blame Microsoft. When it happens on a Mac, nobody blames Apple. We see it on this thread, “I updated Windows and suddenly my X doesn’t work anymore. I hate Windows!” Well, that’s not a Windows problem. That’s a problem of the manufacturer of your hardware. These updates don’t happen without plenty of warning to the various manufacturers out there. There’s no reason for HP to not update the Mac driver for the printer other than they don’t want to anymore. They don’t have to. I don’t expect them to run forever. I don’t blame Apple for this, but it is a reason I rely more on Windows than Mac.

            But that’s the only real reason to choose a platform: What do you want it to do, what does it require you to do that you can live with and what won’t you put up with, what can’t it do that you need that is a deal-breaker or is merely an annoyance, etc.

          • StraightGrandmother

            MY CD ROM was built right into the HP laptop it was not external. And when I did that upgrade that resulted in me no longer being able to run the CD/DVD player, the HP was not all that old. Remember I have been using computers since the 1980’s, I know when I am operating on old equipment with newer software, this wasn’t the case. But it was the case that put me over the line to go buy an Apple iMac.

          • Steven Leahy

            Installing hardware on a Mac is soooooo much easier though. Printer setup is a breeze and I recently bought a Mac router (Airport express) and setup was like 1000x easier than what dealt with on my windows machines with standard wireless routers.

            I will say I find MS Office and apps like that a lot easier to use in the standard Windows environment though. I bought Office for Mac and just isn’t the same.

          • Rrhain

            If you are having trouble installing hardware on a Windows machine, blame the hardware, not Windows. Plug-and-play works on Windows so long as the person making the device has put in the effort to make it so. The reason it’s so much “easier” on the Mac is because Apple controls the hardware and won’t let you sell anything that attaches to it unless it passes their muster.

            PCs, being more open, don’t have that centralized authority.

            My current beef? My HP printer doesn’t print in color on my Mac. It prints in color just fine on Windows 8.1, but OSX Yosemite can only print in black-and-white.

            This is not a problem with Mac but rather a problem with HP: They have decided not to update the driver for the printer for Mac. It’s an older printer (but not *that* old) and they don’t want to bother and the driver for Windows still works.

          • Steven Leahy

            In the Windows ENVIRONMENT as an end user I really don’t care which aspect of it is to blame, I just know it’s more cumbersome and awkward. I know that you have thousands of third-party software providers and it is a daunting task to have them all perfectly tested and compatible. However, I just want to turn it on and have it work with minimal hassle. BTW I have four HP printers of different types (all wireless) and have had no driver issues with any of them on my Mac. I know that MS generally doesn’t make hardware (other than the mouse and keyboard) and Apple controls its own hardware but at the end of the day, the user experience is better for me and a whole lot of other people on a Mac. I bought my first one about three years ago or so after being an exclusive Winx user and I find I use it most of the time while the windows machine sits in its bag. I do use a laptop with Win7 for work and it’s OK.

          • Rrhain

            And I am the exact opposite in experience. I have never had a good time on Mac. It is always easier on Windows. It just works.

            I *still* can’t get my CAC to work on my Mac and I’ve been trying for years. With Windows, I just plugged it in, installed the certificates, and I was on my way.

            The fact that you haven’t had any driver issues doesn’t mean there aren’t any. HP maintains a whole web site for printers that are no longer supported in MacOS: http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01856359&tmp_track_link=ot_faqs/top_issues/en_us/c01856359/loc:3&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&product=61237

            The driver for my printer still exists for Windows. It doesn’t for Mac.

          • Steven Leahy

            I guess that’s why we have multiple platforms as choices, just like buying a vehicle – different brands & options for different tastes and needs.

    • Rrhain

      Hate MacOS with a white hot passion. Windows is so much easier.

      Are there things Mac does better? Of course. But the things I dislike about Mac outweigh the things like I dislike about Windows.

      • ErikDC

        What do u dislike?

        • Rrhain

          Universal menu bar
          The Dock
          No physical right-mouse button on my Macbook
          Nightmarish support for CAC (I’m military…getting MacOS to even see the reader requires magic).
          Keychain
          There’s more, but that’ll do.

          • ErikDC

            Interesting. I used to pin programs to the taskbar in Windows 7 to make it function more like the dock in Mac OS X. Hahaha

          • Rrhain

            Oh, being able to pin stuff to the Taskbar/Dock is fine. It’s the functionality of the Dock in and of itself that I dislike. F’rinstance, I want every instance of the browser to have its own tab in the Taskbar/Dock. I can do that in Windows but not the Dock.

          • ErikDC

            That used to bother me, too. But I stopped using separate windows for web browsing long before I switched operating systems. For instance, I have 8 tabs currently open in Chrome. I think it’s much more efficient to have multiple tabs in a single window than multiple windows.

          • Rrhain

            No, the tabs are different from the instances. Take, for example, my work:

            I have one instance of the browser open and it has all the tabs I use for my direct work.

            I have another instance of the browser open and it has all the tabs I use for my indirect work.

            I have another instance of the browser open that I use for when I am doing presentations and thus they shouldn’t see those other tabs.

            And I have another instance of the browser for doing complete miscellany that isn’t connected to any of those other workspaces.

            I want each of those instances separate from each other and to all appear in the Taskbar, which I can do in Windows. I can’t do it in the Dock.

            Now, that said, I want the ability to sort those instances in the Taskbar which I can’t do in Windows. I want my main space first, secondary space second, etc. If one of the instances crashes and I have to restart it, I can’t just open a new instance and drag it to where I want it to be in the list in the Taskbar. I have to close all instances down and start from scratch. Annoying, but that I can even have multiple instances is a godsend.

          • ErikDC

            I think what you do would be better served by simply creating separate work spaces, which can be accomplished in both Windows and Mac OS X by creating multiple virtual desktops. The presentation scenario is exactly why that feature was implemented. Separate desktops are safer than the setup you’re using. There’s no risk something you don’t want opening will inadvertently open if you’re using separate work spaces. Switching between desktops is extraordinarily easy in Mac OS X ā€“ a three finger swipe up and a click. That’s all it takes.

            I also wouldn’t want so much clutter on my workspace, but recognize that’s a personal preference.

          • Rrhain

            Why? With multiple desktops, I have to figure out where everything is. With a Taskbar, it’s all right there for me. Especially since one of the wonderful things about the Taskbar is that if you need to drag and drop something from one window to another, you just select it, drag it to the Taskbar, hover over the instance of the program you want to drop it into, and it comes to the front of the desktop where you can drop it in. Rather than having to manually choose copy-and-paste, I can just drag-and-drop.

            As for presentations, I have multiple monitors for that. One monitor has the presentation screen. One monitor has the presentation software running (in a separate instance of the browser) so I can monitor my preview and any chat windows related to the presentation. This also allows me to have items “off-screen” that I can then drag into the main viewer, especially if they are new instances of the browser.

            This is why I hate the Dock. It simply cannot do what I need it to do. It won’t take much effort to fix it, but that would ruin the “Mac” feel of it and I understand that.

            That’s why I hate Mac. It forces me into a scenario that assumes I am not capable enough to manage my own workspace.

          • Daniel S

            I recently switched over to Apple from Windows and I concur that there are certain things that are much easier on Win than Mac. And the same goes for my iPhone, I don’t want to use it like everyone else. I’m paying a whole lot of money for this device and I can’t customize it like I could with an Android. It is probably my biggest beef when it comes to Apple, I understand that their products work well, but I’m hit the average Mac user and I want to be able to customize my environment. I can’t even make my iPhone reliably use a 3rd party keyboard, if Apples didn’t suck so badly it wouldn’t be such an issue for me.

          • StraightGrandmother

            What I hate in Internet Explorere the version on 8, they shortened up the box that displays the URL. You only see the first art of the URL and to see the whole thing you have to scroll. I really dislike that, I like to see a full URL in the browser. It’s almost as if they said, “You don’t need to see this, we are going to use this space for something better” But I DO like to see a good long bit of a URL.

            Internet Explorer overall does work very very good in version 8.

          • Rrhain

            You can change a setting so that the tabs are under the URL bar. This will make the URL bar run full width. Right-click the title bar and select “Show tabs on a separate row.” This is a property of IE, not Windows.

            Why this option isn’t in the View menu is beyond me.

          • StraightGrandmother

            Rrhain-oh thank you, I’ll do that next time I take it out of the desk drawer. Tabs in a separate row.

          • StraightGrandmother

            No forward delete button on the Mac, I hate that. Only a backspace key.

    • Steven Leahy

      LOL Erik you had to GO there didn’t you? šŸ™‚ Though I agree with you.

    • Soren456

      Windows refugee here.

      New owner of iMac 5k retinaā€”a beauty. My third iMac.

      (Not to mention other Apple things.)

      • Steven Leahy

        Same here. My MacAir gets about 90% of my computer time now. I was exclusively Windows till about 3-4 years ago.

  • barracks9

    What a lame tag line: A more human way to do. It’s lazy marketing, IMHO.

    Also, how about computers that work like computers should work in the office setting? Not everyone needs/wants/should have a touch screen – how about a fucking product that allows you to do your damn job?

    • Joe in PA

      here here, I was watching that and hearing tech-support folks for businesses SCREAMING! Arrrgh.

    • Steven Leahy

      THANK YOU. I hate touch screens. I am fine with a regular laptop and I think that’s what I love about my Mac Air and the Mac OS. Evolutionary change not revolutionary. It is thin and light and sturdy, yet has a lid and real keyboard and is a regular computer. Great to travel with, I carry it in my bag with my work’s Lenovo when I travel.

    • Sporkfighter

      I don’t like looking through fingerprints, so I don’t want a touchscreen.

  • MacCrocodile

    I really expected that video to just freeze up a few seconds in and then crash my computer.

    • BobSF_94117

      I figure it can’t be the real announcement. It was so obvious how to get it started and how to control the volume that it must be a fake.

      • barracks9

        It was shot on an iPhone 6 and edited on a Mac.

        • Joe in PA

          oh no you din’t! šŸ™‚

          • Octavio

            Oh yes we do. šŸ™‚

    • oikos

      Edit: Meant to post this on it’s own. Not sure when I hit reply.

      Teabilly version is coming out as well

      • MDB

        Winders fore Dummeez nowe avaleyabull inn flayshkarrd edishunnz !

        • oikos

          Free opossum with every order.

          • MDB

            Free dokterin’ curtiphikat on kompleeshun, jest enklowse tew ‘bocks tops ‘an reeturn postige.

    • Cuberly
    • Aurvara

      It won’t play for me at all. Bad omen.

  • JT

    Windows 10
    You’ll be surprised.
    It doesn’t completely suck.

    • Kissmagrits

      Gawd! I hope not. I’d still be using Mac, but I retired it when I couldn’t update anything. Now, I can’t afford what I really want.

    • William

      Did Microsoft ever apologize for Vista?

      • oikos

        No

      • Steven Leahy

        LOL I still have a copy of that too

      • barracks9

        No, now it’s just in the Witness Protection Plan as Mojave. Remember that dickish move to try to rebrand it?

  • Sam_Handwich

    I’m still running Windows 3.1 on a coal burning processor the size of a dishwasher. Can my system handle the upgrade?

    • StraightGrandmother

      I remember windows 3.1
      Heck I remember DOS commands & dot matrix printers.
      I remember Windows 3.1 was so great because we got WYSIWYG for the first time.
      Now who remembers what WYSIWYG (no cheating by Googling!)? Anybody?

      • Joe in PA

        DOS was fab. šŸ™‚ I heard on BBC this am the announcer saying the word ‘forward slash’. Really, what consumer uses back slashes? Wow.

      • crewman

        Remember Word Perfect for DOS?

        • Joe in PA

          the best!

          Funny story, I worked for a short time as a tech support person…actually dealing with dumb-end-user types…one wanted the particular shade of blue that was on her WP 5.2 screen as her background color for Windows. She absolutely insisted that it ‘didn’t hurt her eyes as much’. I got out of that job shortly. šŸ™‚

          • StraightGrandmother

            God Bless the people who do user support! That & Testing are the WORST!

          • Joe in PA

            I know, my co-worker handled it so well. I would have ‘handled’ it differently. [wink] Luckily, that position was only temporary and I moved to a place where I didn’t have to deal. And now I’m retired and the only tech-support I have to do is for husband. Not always easy but the reward is so much better. Ahem.

          • Mike__in_Houston

            When I got my first computer back in 1998, the guy at the store showed me the modem. With the most innocent face I could put on, I said, “I thought the modem was that cradle that you put the phone headset into.” He stared at me for a couple of seconds and then said, “Uhhh, they don’t use those any more.” I’m sure he and his coworkers laughed their asses off for the rest of the night (and the next couple of weeks..).

            Here’s an equally dumb question, but for real this time. I’ve been getting notices representing themselves to be from Microsoft saying I can get a free advance copy of Windows 10, a $120 (or $100-something) value. Anybody else getting those? Are they for real or a hoax? I haven’t clicked on it yet. The notice is even in icon form in my tray.

          • crewman

            That’s probably legitimate. Microsoft is trying to encourage people to upgrade to Windows 10. You may have an icon down on your task bar to the right that if you hover over says you can reserve a free copy. With email though, always hover over the link before clicking it to make sure the URL is something legitimate like microsoft.com and not a trick site like microsoft.com.hacker.com.

          • Mike__in_Houston

            Oh, yeah, our IT folks are always telling us that, and thanks for the reminder…

          • Robert W. Pierce

            When I first say the icon in my tray, I hovered over it and all it said was ..”Get Windows 10″. Norton didn’t indicate that it was unsafe.

          • Rrhain

            If you’re using Win 7 or 8, the upgrade to 10 is free and you have a year from July 29 to do it. This could be legit, but you’d have to be sure what you’re seeing is correct.

            https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-10-upgrade

          • Mike__in_Houston

            That’s it. Thank you!

          • Prixator

            Is that only for users in the U.S.?

          • Joe in PA

            wow, an ‘acoustic coupler’…I haven’t thought of that in EONS! Thanks. šŸ™‚

          • Mike in Texas

            The Windows icon in your system tray should be the notice about reserving your copy of Win 10 in advance. I have not received any other form of notices about it.

          • Ed Burrow

            I have win 7, 64bit. I have that icon in my system tray.

          • Bad Tom

            It’s been there a week or two for me.
            If an icon’s installed on your system tray, it’s already gotten past Norton.

          • Steven Leahy

            To be honest a lot of IT people and computer geeks are really obnoxious when it comes to dealing with the lay public who don’t have their knowledge or aptitude. I got into it with one tech/sales guy at Fry’s for just being an ass and I am a fairly experienced user and can build my own machines. Being short, rude and even caustic – it’s just not necessary.

          • Octavio

            I agree. But it’s not just limited to IT folks. Programmers who live in caves are completely unnecessary. I used to know a guy who liked to tell everyone he was a programmer with his own software company. It was sort of true. He’d developed a very cumbersome and ridiculously ornate musical notation software that required a giant tablet and the need for users to memorize a load of archaic commands. He actually had sold several “systems” to folks who wrote scores for films and TV stuff. But he never made a living at it. His mother still supported him (he was in his late 40s). Then one day he showed up for a visit and decided I wasn’t worth knowing because I had an early version of Sibelius installed on my Mac workstation. Not only did I have a Mac, but I had the temerity to support a software package that he hadn’t designed simply because it was infinitely more intuitive and actually worked. The shock. The disappointment. He was also one of those self-professed geeks who insisted he had “perfect pitch” but never learned what that term really meant. Sadly, he never learned to play a musical instrument of any kind and could not carry a tune if his life depended on it. He couldn’t even whistle. But he had perfect pitch. šŸ˜‰

          • MDB

            I know, right ?? I had to endure a family member (grand-daughter of the deceased) “singing” with a CD orchestral accompaniment of “Joyful, Joyful” this past Saturday at a funeral which I played for. The girl was absolutely tone-deaf but insisted on wearing a mic. ZOIKS, It was sooooooo awful, and after the fourth verse I vowed to NEVER, NEVER, EVER…let family members sing at funerals again unless and until they audition/past muster first.

          • KCMC

            bad funeral music has helped me cry more.
            Rural chapel hired singer, “Wind Beneath My Wings.”

          • Octavio

            That would have killed me right then and there. LOL!

          • MDB

            I had Bette sing that at my partner’s funeral in glorious surround sound. I still can’t hear it to this day without weeping.

          • David in Tucson

            That and bad wedding music! Any of us organists have reams of horror stories, I’m sure.

          • Cuberly

            Oh the stories I could tell….lol…

            I do IT Support for a living. I try to be low key and nice when it comes to working with users. I realize not everyone is computer literate. But to be honest I’ve witnessed some of the most amazing behavior from users.

            Like I said, I have stories. Among my favs, the sales guy that drank Red Bull by the gallon every day that constantly kicked the power cord out from his PC. He practically danced a jig under his desk. One time he even kicked the power cord out of the outlet. He threatened to quit one time when it happened and even went to his VP claiming his PC was a piece of crap. It wasn’t.

            Was able to remedy the situation by basically doing reinforced cord management and PC placement that could practically survive reentry.

            In my experience 99.9% of all computer issues are (ahem) rather easy to resolve.

          • John30013

            Yes, the offer for a free upgrade to Windows 10 is legit, assuming you’re currently running Windows 7 and the notice came directly from your computer–not from email or by phone.

          • fuzzybits

            Computer? Hell I got on the interwebs in 98 on webtv.

          • Robert W. Pierce

            I’ve been getting that too. I clicked on it since I didn’t get any warning from Norton that it was unsafe once it planted itself in my tray.

        • StraightGrandmother

          I never used Word Perfect I used actually Wordstar, but not for all that long.

          • Octavio

            Oh yeah? I still have an old IBM Display Writer boxed up in my garage complete with 8″ floppies to load the system every time you wanted to turn the damn thing on and get it to work. LOL!

            You teenagers. Get off my lawn!

          • vorpal

            Well, I’m out. I concede defeat.

          • danolgb

            I have an Atari 1200XL.

          • Octavio

            Did they make Atari 1200XL in 1980? That’s how old my Display Writer is.

          • The Larry Mac

            I have an Atari 800, long before the XL series. It still worked the last time I tried it…

          • StraightGrandmother

            Were all of them 8″? I don’t remember them that big. I am thinking back thinking they were about 5 or 6″ before the hard floppy disks were invented.

          • BearEyes

            I remember 8″ floppies when I worked on Wang VS mini.

          • bambinoitaliano

            All these talk of 5″,6″ 8″ floppy Wang talk pre viagra era are very confusing.

          • David in Tucson

            Yep, I remember the 8″ Wang floppy drives, too! That was long ago, too.

          • Octavio

            Oy! Wangs! The first tech company that bit my investment portfolio hard in the ass. Universities we thick with Wang dedicated word processors.

          • DumbHairyApe

            8″ Floppy wangs?!?!?

            What kind of a forum do you think this is?!?

          • Octavio

            Well, if you had a PD-1011 they had these giant floppy “platters” that you stacked on top of one another. But they were a bit much for just word processing. šŸ™‚

            Seriously, I only remember the 8″ ones. I still have boxes of them.

          • John30013

            The first floppy disks were indeed 8″, but mostly used in business or academic settings. 5Ā¼” floppy disks were common for many years. (I remember using a hole punch to make a notch in the opposite side so I could use the other side of the disk. And covering up the notch with electrical tape to make the disk read-only.) After that came the 3Ā½” “floppy” disks (the disks themselves *were* floppy, but they were encased in rigid plastic cases). Those coexisted with zip drives for several more years–the “save” icon on most menu bars looks like a 3Ā½” floppy.

            Those technologies have been supplanted today by “cloud” storage (Google Drive, iCloud, Dropbox, etc.) and by USB memory sticks (often called “thumb drives”).

          • Steven Leahy

            LOL I had one of those…..well was called a “Leading Edge”, had two large floppy drives, no hard disk, dos only, and a green LED tiny screen. I remember when a 14″ monitor was considered “big” LOL

          • MDB

            I remember getting my first VGA color monitor at Radio Shack; space age technology, “V-GER wants to join with the creator.”

          • 2guysnamedjoe

            Oh, you and your 8″ floppy.

          • Octavio

            Yeah. Back in the days when What You Saw Was A Little Less Than What You Were Going to Get. šŸ˜‰

          • David in Tucson

            I used Wordstar, too, way, way, way back when, BEFORE the IBM PC established dominance. I worked in an office that had a 4-user computer that ran a multi-user operating system–MP/M, I think it was called. It was a cousin to CP/M. That was back around 1982 or so.

        • Cuberly

          OMG and that template thing to put over the keyboard…wow. Very olde school right there.

        • BearEyes

          I used Wang Word Processing back in the days I worked for Wang. Still have the 5″ floppies somewhere in the basement

        • Elsewhere1010

          I worked for a law firm in SF that was using WP5.1 as late as early 2000. When the upgrade from a DOS shell (and individualized login scripts for 400 uses) into Windows finally happened they whined. The wanted WP5.1 back. Really.

          • Octavio

            Utah businesses still keep Word Perfect alive. It’s commonly used if the managers or owners are mormon.

          • Steve Teeter

            I still use WordPerfect 8, just because I’m used to it and I like it. And I’m not mormon.

          • John30013

            It’s home was in Orem, UT, if I recall correctly.

          • Octavio

            Or, as the locals pronounce it: Arim. šŸ™‚

          • Elsewhere1010

            Thank you. Not to go into details, but that explains a lot. A lot.

          • Lumpy Gaga

            I [HRt] WP5.1 for DOS.

        • David in Tucson

          Oh, yes. I had WordPerfect 5.1 jumping through hoops. I needed to print computer scoring sheets with precoded information. I could do it in WordPerfect with great precision; not in Word. When WP 6 for Windows came out, it finally was reasonably stable, but WP had lost so much ground to Microsoft Word, it has never recovered. But I STILL use WordPerfect (a more current version) for our church’s weekly service booklet; it’s still much more flexible and obedient than Word.

      • William

        Windows 3.0, now that was a picnic.

        • Steven Leahy

          On a 386 at that. I remember when those things could heat up an entire room.

          • William

            I could heat my apartment with my little Gateway.

          • MDB

            …running dbase III on an IBM SX386.

          • StraightGrandmother

            dbase!!! OMG dbase, that was the first database program I ever used. I had completely forgotten about it. My brother bought it for me and showed me how to use it.

          • Steve Teeter

            God, yes! I used it too!

          • StraightGrandmother

            I will say there were not very many women who were doing what I was doing, it was really a mans world. My mother was and is a huge influence on me. She bought all of her children an IBM System 2 for Christmas one year.

            She started as an accounting clerk using old fashioned adding machines. She transitioned to IBM punch cards and saw how the computerization was magnificent. It was especially impactfull on business accounting as she reconciled the general ledger for quite a large company. There used to be rows and rows of desks with primarily women as accounting clerks doing all of the accounting by hand with adding machines. The men of course were the bosses. My mother completed her education late and then she also was a full fledged accountant, but now that I think of it, her whole life she reported to men, she never had a woman for a boss.

            My mother and my father were huge believers in education and progress, they were real progressives, and when a computer was built that was priced for home use (my brother & I had Commodores my other sisters didn’t) my parents bought each of their kids one, and that was quite a bit of money in those days. However I am proud to say that I forced my mother to try Microsoft Word in place of Wordstar. I bought it and installed it in her IBM System2 computer. I guess the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

      • Mike in Texas

        I still use some of them in the command prompt box like chkdsk /f

        • Octavio

          Does Ctrl+Alt+F still completely reformat a hard drive? LOL!

          • Mike in Texas

            I don’t know. But something tells me not to experiment with it.

      • Octavio

        What You See Is (not necessarily) What You Get.

        • StraightGrandmother

          You got it! did you cheat, or did you know it?
          Before WYSIWYG (pronounced wizywig) in a word processing program you never actually knew if the one page document you created was actually going to be printed across 2 pages for example. With WYSIWYG for the first time we could see how the doc would print.

          And Dip Switches, remember them & an AB box, I had a real fancy one.

          • Octavio

            No. I didn’t need to cheat. If you caught my “my penis is bigger than your penis” ranting earlier I lived through the Selectrics/Selectric II era graduating to an IBM Display Writer that needed the system loaded onto it each time you wanted to boot it up. One day at U.T. I had several painful publication deadlines that needed to be met at the same time. A member of the Print Journalism faculty loaned me one of the first Macs and a couple of 3″ diskettes with PageMaker on them. The WYSIWYG was a VERY BIG deal absolutely necessary for laying out a book. Those painful years are long gone. So are the years of having to take work home and do it on my Macs and taking it back the next morning to upload it to the company IBM Microsoft machines in RTF so others too stupid to realize that we needed Macs for publishing rather than PCs could read and share our files. Eventually, Microsoft and PCs caught up. But I haven’t run into anything that can out do InDesign on a Mac. And I’ve worked with many stupid people who can’t let go of FrameMake or who think Microsoft Word or Word Perfect are all one needs to produce a book.

          • agcons

            The Selectric is an awesome typewriter. I hit 76 wpm (net!) on one of those in the late ’70s. The daisy wheel that was supposed to replace IBM’s “golfball” was not an improvement as far as I was concerned.

            I cannot regret not buying a Selectric back then because I was very young and so very broke. Had I been able to afford it I would never have given it up.

          • Octavio

            Before the Selectric my brother, for some unknown reason, sent me a Hermes 3000 typewriter from Switzerland. It was seafoam green and had an “international” keyboard. So, typing in French and Spanish was a breeze. It was the only intelligent thing I can remember my brother ever doing for me. Odd. But the Hermes were incredible. No need to whack away at the keys. They were counter balanced and once you touched them they automatically made impressions. Much less annoying than the dynamo hum of electric typewriters.

          • agcons

            You are the only person I’ve encountered outside of my immediate family who has heard of a Hermes 3000. My parents bought one in the mid-’60s, and it too is seafoam green. No international keyboard on theirs, though.

            I didn’t know about the counterbalanced keys, which explains why it’s so marvelous to type on. My nonagenarian parents still use it.

          • StraightGrandmother

            I was thinking of Hermes scarfs, & Hermes handbags actually.

          • Octavio

            You fashion victim, you! šŸ™‚

          • Octavio

            Keep the thing. They readily fetch $300-500 these days. They originally sold for $195 tops!

          • StraightGrandmother

            It was the only intelligent thing I can remember my brother ever doing for me.
            ROTFLMAO

          • David in Tucson

            I did years of office work on Selectric II typewriters. They were incredible machines, with one of the best keyboards any typewriter has ever had.

      • vorpal

        Oh, the pain of editing AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS so that I could get that extra 4k of RAM free to play the game I just bought.

        Yes, because 640K of RAM was enough for anybody.

        • Joe in PA

          damn, you are bringing back all kinds of awful memories! Wow.

          • Octavio

            Exactly. “All you need to do, Octavio, is edit your AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS FILES. How hard is that?”

            It was a fucking goddamn unnecessary annoyance that caused far too much grief!

          • StraightGrandmother

            This is how bad I was, I mean I was a determined young woman. Remember the old modems, you put the actual telephone handset in it if I remember right. Anyway I read how you could get a picture, it was an icon actually, you could get that througt a modem connection, I don’t think the internet was in use yet. I think I purchased the modem to use the bulletin board of my internet provider, but that was all there was, just the bulletin board of the service provider, but I wanted to see that.

            Now that fascinated the HELL out of me, that through the phone lines I could actually get something into my computer using a modem. I saw it in a magazine I think, and so I tried & tried & tried, I know I had to use DOS commands. I kept calling technical support which was long distance, and that person was really really poor at technical support, I would do what he instructed & it didn’t work. I ran up over a ONE HUNDRED DOLLAR phone bill getting that icon into my computer, but I didn’t quit until I got it. It was fantastic at the time, the idea that you could get something into your computer without having disks, through the phone lines.

            I saw that this is where the future was, that if I could get that icon into my computer then I could eventually get other things in as well, that this is how it would be in the future. I remember the phone bill because my husband was really mad at me, LOLZ! But I wanted it, it was an icon of a flower. A very simple maybe 12 petal sunflower head.

          • ZhyKitty

            LMAO!!!!!

          • StraightGrandmother

            Can you imagine over a hundred dollars for an icon. Okay I wasn’t going to say but the actual phone bill and I still remember the amount was $176 dollars. I tried to explain it to my husband, but he just didn’t get it, how cool it was to get something INTO your computer using the phone lines. He was TOTALLY NOT impressed when I showed him in the computer the flower, I am busting a gut laughing thinking about it. “You spent over a hundred dollars for THAT!” Boy was he mad. Usually I was pretty good about money we discussed things before we spent big sums, but once in a while if I wanted something I just did it, not to often, hey you know what that is like when you see a SALE, right? But boy was he mad about that flower I got INTO my computer.

          • Octavio

            LOL! That’s hysterical. Seriously, very funny.

          • Prixator

            Your story probably preceded mine – I bought my first computer system in 1992 and it had an internal modem (2400 baud). In the gay newspaper, I had seen an ad for a gay BBS – The Gay Blade – so I had to check that out.

            In my mind, there were 100’s of gorgeous men sitting at their computers just waiting to meet me on The Gay Blade! Talk about LOLZ! (I have always been VERY shy and I thought this would be infinitely better than the bars.)

            Of course, it wasn’t what I imagined, but it turned out be very interesting, anyway. I’m mostly glad for the experience.

            I also joined Compuserve – THAT was a money suck!

          • Rambie

            LOL Octavio…. I’d of been the one to say, “All you need to do, Octavio, is edit your AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS FILES. How hard is that?”

          • David in Tucson

            Don’t forget WIN.INI and SYSTEM.INI (or was it SYS.INI?) either!

            I don’t miss those days.

          • Rambie

            I haven’t but we were talking DOS not Windows 3.1 files. I used to work for Megahurtz/USRobotics on the modem support line. Imagine –in the days before screen sharing– trying to walk someone into editing those files over the phone. *shivers*

        • MDB

          Oh, those golden kilobytes that we worked so hard to free up to run our 3.5″
          HDD floppies………sigh…

          • StraightGrandmother

            That’s it! That is what they were called HDD floppies.

            And then there was another external hard drive, I don’t think I bought one but it compressed files, it was an external drive that produced compressed files.

          • John30013

            I think you’re talking about a zip drive, SG. It didn’t actually compress the files (although there is a file compression format also called zip). It was basically a glorified floppy disk with much higher storage capacity.

          • StraightGrandmother

            Thank you John, yes that was it, a Zip drive.

          • Rambie

            I worked for IOMega while they were developing the Zip drive… damn I still hate myself for not buying stock in them.

          • RemusL

            I still have one of those Iomega external zip drives that use 250MB disks.

          • John30013

            They were the hottest things for a while. I had external ones, and then internal ones, and loved them. In the late 90’s and early 2K’s they were *the* storage medium of choice.

          • Rambie

            They were awesome. I too had more than one ZIP drive.

            Anyone remember the Jazz drive? It was the 1gb “big brother” of the ZIP. It was toward the end when HDD prices were getting so cheap.

          • Cuberly
          • MDB

            Thanks, that is freakin’ fabulous – 13 fdd and hdd’s !! As one comenter wrote, “try doin’ THAT with the new fangled SSD’s !”

            Immediately reminded me of MOOG
            synthesizers. šŸ˜‰

            http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/pc/moogrc1.jpg

          • Cuberly

            Ha! And that makes me think of Wendy Carlos…lol….

          • MDB
          • JT

            Wendy Carlos, now there’s one of the very public transgender pioneers.

          • Bad Tom

            The sound of Wendy’s Circular Controller really reminds me of a Theremin. Looks quite a bit easier to play (even though she said it was hard; a Theremin is really hard to play well.)

          • JT
          • Bad Tom

            ENIAC’s programming team was almost entirely women. Only one problem could be setup on the system at a time. Internal storage was extremely tiny, less than 200 bits (and they weren’t stored in binary, either.) Main memory was actually punched cards. Programming was implemented by changing plug cords and setting dials on function panels.

            John Mauchly and J. Presper Eckert were definitely ripped-off when Johnny von Neumann published his First Draft of a Report on the EDVAC without giving them any credit. That act was one reason why the ENIAC patent was invalidated years later in Honeywell v. Sperry Rand.

          • JT

            Originally, computers were people who did calculations. Much of the work was done to create artillery firing tables for the military. Many women were involved in that too.

            https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6111/6244852243_98f48fa5b0_b.jpg

          • Bad Tom

            Yes, indeed. Although they didn’t use THAT kind of machine.
            This image is from the NACA High Speed Flight Station.
            My mom keypunched for NASA.
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/21017c8a1901eae64ad6b6ada961beb8253b130f82b5f617f2a5bfccc5e8a1de.jpg

          • Cattleya1

            I was in a Junior Achievement company in 1970 – 72. It was sponsored by IBM. They taught us how to write basic programs in COBOL and Fortran. We also learned to type keypunch cards.They had those early type-ball automatic typewriters. I thought I got to go to Star Trek every Monday night.

          • Bad Tom

            It was the same for me. I got to program an IBM 360/50 (their lowliest model) during the summer between Junior / Senior years when I was in high school, using the 029 punch card machine. Sometimes I even got to go into The Machine Room.*

            No one called it a data center back then.

            That computer had 1 (one) megabyte of memory, and did take up the whole room.
            ——-
            * Man! Lookit all the blinkin’ lights!

          • Waukegan IL

            Seem to remember once reading nine of them there 3.5″ floppies collectively could hold more memory than the hard drive on the Apollo 11. That’s why they had to constantly download updated instructions.

          • Bad Tom

            The AGC (Apollo Guidance Computer) had no hard drive. It used woven core memory for persistent storage. The cores were made by little old ladies who essentially knitted them by hand. Changing the program was an enormous pain.

            But you are right that even one 3.5″ floppy had more storage than the AGC.

            The AGC was a remarkably capable computer for its time. It boasted a virtual machine, multi-tasking, and matrix handling in its instruction repertoire. It directly operated the Apollo and Lunar Module spacecraft. It was also the first computer that occupied less than one cubic foot.

          • Bad Tom

            The AGC also had a writable core area that was used by running programs. Some of that area could be used to run updated programs. Those programs were uploaded from ground control by radio in most cases.

            But the vast majority of ground control updates of the AGC were for state vectors, which described the spacecraft’s position and motion in outer space. State vectors were computed by both controllers in Houston, and by the astronauts, but by policy the ground control state vectors were always used. The astronauts had to set an AGC switch to Accept before the AGC would update its programming or state vector via radio. That feature was designed in due to fear that the Russians might try to interfere with an Apollo mission. That fear never materialized.

            The updates of the state vector were to characterize and account for the unavoidable drift in the gyroscopes (stable platform,) which would otherwise accumulate an unacceptable amount of error in the navigation calculations.

            AGC programming could also be updated manually by the astronauts, using one of the DSKY (DiSplay KeYboard) units. This happened most famously during the lunar descent on Apollo 14, (commanded by Alan Shepard,) when a faulty switch in the Lunar Module caused the Abort indication to be set.

            A program change had to be devised and sent up to the lunar astronauts by voice to override the Abort signal, as otherwise the AGC would have aborted the mission when automatic control was engaged.
            ——-
            My Dad worked on Apollo. I’ve read most of the published literature on Apollo, Gemini, and Mercury, including the tech docs, and almost all the astronaut biographies / memoirs.

          • Waukegan IL

            Very interesting. Thanks.

        • Rambie

          Do you mean with edlin? ‘cuz that was annoying, but IIRC DOS 3 had edit which was cake.

          • vorpal

            I’m pretty sure I used both, but the annoyance was in trying to decide what to sacrifice to free up that little extra bit of RAM.

          • Rambie

            I too remember tweaking the files to get games to run.

      • Larry in Oklahoma

        Geraldine Jones (Flip Wilson) made that famous. “What you see is what you get.” Of course, some folks said it as “what you see is a lot more than what you are ever gonna get.” Lol.

        • agcons

          I seem to remember a song around then:

          “What you see is what you get,
          And what you don’t see is better yet.”

          I’ve no recollection of exactly when or who sang it.

      • Necessitas

        What You See Is What You Get

      • GreatLakeSailor

        before there was 3.1 there was this:
        Commodore 64 GEOS
        (Graphic Environment Operating System)
        No mouse – joystick controlled!
        http://toastytech.com/guis/c64gmenu1.gif

        • crewman

          LOL I wish I could have had that. At least it was a functional computer. My first computer was a Commodore VIC 20, which ran on tape cassette, and could only run very rudimentary BASIC programs. Still, I loved it.

          • StraightGrandmother

            oh boy tape cassettes, at least I don’t go that far back crewman.

          • Ed Burrow

            Yup. Radar Rat Race on a vic 20. Loved it.

        • Necessitas

          That was my first GUI, I remember using Geowrite and a dot-matrix printer to do college writing assignments. My teachers were very, very impressed.

          Bolding, italics? How did you do that?

        • pablo

          I’d love to have a C64 and working copies of M.U.L.E. and Impossible Mission-which really was impossible, I don’t know a single person who finished it.

          • GreatLakeSailor

            GLS spouse would love you!
            Floating around the Interwebz somewhere is a C64 emulator and MULE that will run on it.

          • Ed Burrow

            I miss Radar Rat Race.

        • StraightGrandmother

          That is what I had a Commodore 64! OMG, I had forgotten about that. But mine was not graphic I don’t think.

          I don’t think the Commodore had any memory in it did it? Didn’t you always have to put in a disk, if you were going to run a program didn’t you have to put in the program disk? I can’t remember. Something, something I can’t remember about the Commodore 64.

          • GreatLakeSailor

            GEOS was an OS (on 5.25″ floppy!!) that would run on any C64 – with a 5.25 drive.
            C64 had 64k of ram. There was a C128 and several Amiga models beyond that.

          • StraightGrandmother

            But you had to put the GEOS disk in every time and leave it in in order to run the program, right? There is something I remember about the Commodor where you had to leave the program disk (floppy disk) in the disk drive in order to use the program (I could be wrong)

          • GreatLakeSailor

            Yes. There was no hard drive in the C64 and the ROM chips in it brought up BASIC.
            With only 64k RAM there was a LOT of “hittin’ the floppy disk”.

          • StraightGrandmother

            That’s it! There was no hard drive in it, so to run a program you put the program disk into the floppy drive, and those floppy disks we were very careful how we handled them less they get damaged. The small hard floppy disks that came afterwards were such an improvement.

          • John30013

            I had a C-64 too (it was my second computer, after my TI-99/4A). The C-64 actually had 64 KB of memory (a huge amount for a home computer at the time), but no hard drive. You had to load programs off a 5Ā¼” floppy disk (using the 1541 model floppy disk drive) or a cassette tape.

          • Happy Dance

            The first computer I ever used had cassette tapes that it read for processing. That was in the late 70’s. I believe it was an Atari computer.

        • Steven Leahy

          That trashcan matches my living room furniture!

        • Rambie

          aww yeah, I remember that too.

        • David in Tucson

          I remember that! My husband had a Commodore 64, and we kept databases on it, did spreadsheets, and produced a newsletter on it. He still has the cassette drive for it–that bit of nostalgia runs strong. (He still has a deck of punch cards from when he took programming in college, too!)

      • Necessitas

        I remember vividly the first time I saw video on the internet. It was about the size of a postage stamp, pixilated as hell, and about 3 seconds long. I think it came from the National Science Foundation.

        • StraightGrandmother

          Well I was on YouTube certainly less than 1,000 people were on it. I couldn’t believe it. A place where you could upload videos for FREE. I don’t think computers had cameras built into them at the time. I watched a fascinating set of videos from a man in the UK who simply talked about his life.

      • Elsewhere1010

        Delete c:*.*
        Are you sure? (y/n) y
        R.I.P.

      • Steve Teeter

        Oh, my dear, I was there too. In fact, I go back to CPM. “What You See is What You Get.” Quite a jump forward after working with Wordstar.

        • Mike in Texas

          My first was a luggable Osborne with CPM.

        • StraightGrandmother

          WYSIWYG was AWESOME! It WAS a great leap forward. Say if you were writing a letter & you wanted it only to be a one page letter, before WYSIWYG it might show you on the screen one page but when you printed it it was a a page plus a part of a next page. So you would go back & edit your letter to try & shorten it up, try printing again and see if it will print on one page. WYSIWYG was a GREAT leap forward. What you saw on the computer screen is actually what was printed.

      • Bj Lincoln

        My first was a Tandy DOS with a dot matrix printer. I had the first graphics program and DUAL drives! Life was so much simpler then.

      • I remember that!

        I also remember QBasic! Though the first language I learned to code in was Pascal, which made programs you could run in DOS. I made a choose-your-own adventure game :p

        On the non-Windows side, I also remember using HyperCard in my middle school CS class. Fun times.

        • Joe

          I wrote some epic HyperCard decks including interactive games. Those days of the computer were a lot of fun.

      • Joe knows who I am.

        What You See Is What You Get!

        It’s amazing what you can do with AOL! Lol

      • J Ascher

        In college, my school’s computers used IBM OS2. You had to lock the hard drive before shutting down. At the time, I really liked Apple IIe machines better – dual disk drives!.

      • Mark

        I worked for DEC back in the 80’s…and was actually a production supervisor on the RA81 Hard Drive line. It was a stand alone hard drive, weighed about 75 pounds, and was a full 16″ wide, 14″ tall….and a whopping 27″ deep. Seems the storage capacity was 1 gig.

        Then – in the middle of the night….there were rumors coming out of engineering of a little bitty drive…that was…essentially a throw away!! About the size of a shoe box…

        • BlueberriesForMe

          And now you can buy a terabyte disk – for $55 on amazon. Unbelievable.

      • Rambie

        I’m old enough to remember DOS, MS, Apple ][, and other command line operating systems.

        What You See Is What You Get. :p

      • perversatile

        I quite often feel like my life skills are the equivalent to the human appendix- I know how to operate a IBM card punch, typeset, and I once apprenticed to a book binder, none of this phased me as much, as having to teach my 15 year old niece how to used a potato peeler

      • David in Tucson

        Ah, yes. WYSIWYG. At best, what you saw sort of resembled what you got, given those old monitors and video cards. Oh, and finding and installing drivers was such a FUN activity! And then there were the UAEs–Unrecoverable Application Errors. They forced rebooting the computer. And when you booted your computer, it started in DOS, and you started Windows from that DOS prompt. Yes, folks, Windows was a house of cards running on top of DOS!

      • Rich Farias

        What You See Is What You Get

      • RemusL

        Except that the earliest incarnations of Windows 3.1’s WYSIWYG were actually more like WYSINQWYAG. ;1

      • i still program in dos for my embedded applications – 5 volt computerboard with the requirement of not generating excess heat in the enclosure. and i think i have computers in my lab with dos, windows3 and 98 on the hard drives. don’t use them much these days

        my first experience with a computer was when my dad brought home a very early computer and told me i should figure out what to do with it – think i was in a freshman in highschool. have to say i expected to see more than c: when i turned it on , and was told it was a tool, and once i learned to use it it would be more fun. wrote a bit of software for one of his coworkers daughters who was paralyzed , unable to speak, but could nod her head – a very early communication software package that allowed her to type.

    • oikos

      Windows 10 uses a more modern fuel injected kerosene burner the size of a small air conditioner that you can vent directly through a wall without a chimney.

      • barracks9

        Good gravy, man – not without the Type 8 brass nodule security flange! Are you mad?

        • oikos

          These newfangled devices will be the death of us all.

          • barracks9

            Oh, but what a way to go!

          • MDB

            How thick is the dang drive belt ???

        • GreatLakeSailor

          Is that with a left handed or right handed Knuten Valve??

    • Steven Leahy

      LOL I bet that thing puts out some HEAT!

    • Cuberly

      You’ll have to use the special MS Upgrade Tool first.

      http://catalog.wlimg.com/1/454112/full-images/sledge-hammer-775102.jpg

      …and well, then go buy a new system…he he he…

      (Wow, I sounded like MS customer support there didn’t I?)

    • GreatLakeSailor

      I remember learning PASCAL on the University’s Multi-Terminal DEC VAX 1170. They called it a “Mini Computer” because it didn’t take up an entire room.
      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/VAX-11-750.jpg/220px-VAX-11-750.jpg

      • Octavio

        Oy! You just know some frat kid now uses that case to hide his mini fridge.

      • Hue-Man

        I wouldn’t be surprised to find IBM punch cards at the bottom of a box – I used them for taking notes in class (before they were punched).

        I’ve forgotten whether they had an IBM 360 or 370 but the picture of the keypunch room looks familiar. Student Assembler, Fortran, COBOL.

        • GreatLakeSailor

          I missed the punch card by a few years. My Dad brought used ones home from work – he didn’t work in IT directly but in early CNC machining and used paper tape and punch cards.

          Anyhoo, we made artsy-fartsy “stuff” outta old punch cards. Come to think of it, we had a reel of 1″ wide (x about 100 miles) magnetic data tape that we used for ribbon when wrapping presents. It was silver on one side and metallic purple on the other. We used it for years, and years, and years, and years and the reel NEVER got any smaller. NEVER.

      • Bad Tom

        The actual model shown here is a minimum configuration VAX 11/750

        • GreatLakeSailor

          Dadblammit!! I didn’t think anyone would notice. The other pictures that showed in The Google when I searched were 11/780 and some other one.
          šŸ˜‰

          • Bad Tom

            Worked for DEC for 17 years in hardware / software engineering. My first job there was developing I/O microcode for the VAX 11/730. The 750 dev lab was right next to us in Tewksbury, all those years ago.

            You haven’t lived until you’ve seen your group manager physically pick up an entire 11/730 chassis, and hurl it across a lab in frustration. He was kind of a bear (not the soft/cuddly type.)

          • GreatLakeSailor
          • Bad Tom

            PDP 11/70s! DECwriter IVs! TS-11s! (tape unit) VT-52s! (Way in the back.) I coded a lot of microcode using those.
            AND paper tape!

            Damn.

            You haven’t lived until you’ve booted your machine from paper tape. And that’s a high speed paper tape reader. Booting from Teletype tape was realllly slooooow @ 10 cps.

            I taught myself to program using an IBM 1620 and a PDP-5. The 1620 had punch cards. The PDP-5 had paper tape.

            (The mustache, yes, but I never had hair that good.)

          • GreatLakeSailor

            My Dad worked with paper tape on CNC machining. He claimed he could read the paper tape. No one believed him. My Dad was an honest guy, practically to a fault, but he was a BS’er kind of as a sport.

            Example: I knew a guy that yawned so wide he accidentally bit his own head right off, so don’t stay up too late!

            Anyway, when he said he could read the paper tape his work colleagues thought it was one of his BS’s. Enter the shop owner’s son fresh out of technical school for CNC programming. My Dad asked if he needed any help, kid says no. My Dad asked the kid if he wanted him to check the program before loading it onto the machine and running it. Kid gets irritated, says no again, won’t let him look at the program on computer screen so after the kid made the tape, my Dad took a look at it and said, “Hey kid, you’re gonna run the tool bit into the headstock (I think he had missed a feed rate command). Short story long: loaded the program from the tape onto the CNC turning center, fired it up, my Dad gets a safe distance away, the kid and the machine operator are standing right in front of the machine and KA-BOOM!! No one but the machine got hurt (pure dumb luck), but the machine got really, really hurt. Chuck, carriage, even the headstock bearings…many, many thousands of dollars and many days downtime . After that the owner tells the kid my Dad checks ALL CNC programming before loading and running it.

            This would have been circa 1975.

  • Six Pins Delores

    So touching, especially when Big Mother Ashley is watching. šŸ™‚

  • Sam_Handwich
    • Joe in PA

      you are ONE SICK PUP. Come sit by me. šŸ™‚

    • oikos

      Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you do the Fandango?

    • J Ascher

      Thanks, now I’m in a Bohemian groove!

  • James

    is there a line to stand in? because if there’s not a line to stand in,, what’s the fun of that?

    • Cuberly

      HA!

      No line anymore, now it’s MS deciding when your PC will automatically start downloading it in the background.

    • People4Humanity

      OK, Mister Smartypants.

  • Stev84

    They still have those fucked up tiles in the “start menu”. So I’ll stick with Windows 7. Though maybe some third party software will fix it again. Then it might finally be time to upgrade.

    • Rrhain

      Except you don’t have to use the tile screen in Windows 10 if you don’t want to. Granted, if you like Win 7, then go ahead and keep it, but Win 10 is not Win 8.

      • Stev84

        According to screenshots there are still small tiles even if you don’t use Metro or whatever it is called now.

  • Ginger Snap

    I’m getting it for free so I’ll try it out. I like Windows.

    • Octavio

      Good. You can come over and do ours. Rosalia refuses to do windows. šŸ™‚

      • Ginger Snap

        I like to do all kinds of housework and really enjoy it. I find it oddly relaxing. My brothers have always said I’d make someone a good wife someday. So if there is anyone out there looking for a housewife that will take care of all and any of your needs I’m free.

      • People4Humanity

        I see what you did there.

  • vorpal

    Well, that ad told me nothing at all about Windows 10.

    • barracks9

      Sure, but it made a lot of childless women involuntarily lactate.

  • Steven Leahy

    Looks like they’re going to offer a free upgrade even on existing devices for a full year…very un-Microsoft-like for a new OS. I was expecting the usual $99.99 upgrade or $199.99 for the full version.

    • Yep. Fully update your system, Win 7 SP 1 and higher, and look for the KB3033583 installed update. That’s the one that gives the Win 10 Update icon in the system tray.

      • oikos

        It showed up on mine prior to KB3033583 (a month ago) which just showed up this week.

        • That’s curious.

          • oikos

            I went ahead and reserved it at that time.

            SP2-not sure if that has anything to do with it.

      • Steven Leahy

        Thanks, I’ll do that, I usually use a small Mac Air but also have a small Windows 11″ notebook I like.

      • Mike in Texas

        Those Windows icons showed up on my machines a while back, maybe 2 or 3 weeks ago.

      • NZArtist

        Here’s a funny thing… I’m running Sony Vaio with Win 8 (it was pre-installed. Don’t hate me!). It tells me I need to update (for free!) to Win 8.1, so then I can update (for free!) to Win 10
        The catch is… the Bios doesn’t support Win 8.1, and Sony have no updates for the Bios. Bitch.

        • Steven Leahy

          I’d think it would still install, wow interesting – try it and tell us what happens!

          • Octavio

            You are mean.

          • Steven Leahy

            I’ve had a Vaio laptop before, that’s why!

          • NZArtist

            I have no upgrade icon. And even if I did I expect it too would complain about not being supported by the Bios. Nope, this Vaio will forever be cursed.

          • Steven Leahy

            LOL

      • Steven Leahy

        Thanks JalapeƱo – I followed your instructions and reserved my copy šŸ™‚

    • Gregory In Seattle

      They know that, after the utter disaster of Windows 8, they won’t be able to sell any upgrades for a while.

    • SockMikey

      Yeah, but some of the changes like patches/upgrades will be mandatory and possibly going to a “subscription service” in a few years, makes me want to stay on windows for Win 7 Ultimate (64bit) for a while.

      Especially since I’ve had *no* problems on it and all previous software that I’ve liked/registered works great.

  • Michael

    What happened to WIndows 9?

    • 7 ate 9

      • Sam_Handwich

        Candidate JalapeƱo is now under FEC investigation for being a suspected cunning linguist.

        • You are in a field, a large castle is ahead.

          >Approach Castle

          The Castle Drawbridge has been lowered.

          >Cross drawbridge.

          You see a pile of junk to the left that contains an axe, a spear, a chalice and a torch.

          >Pick up axe.

          The castle door appears to be ajar.

          >Push door open

          Inside the grand meeting room, you see an ornate, gilded, marble top table. On the table is a private email server containing all of your personal and official business correspondence for the last 12 years.

          >Approach server.

          You turn to face a noise coming from the drawbridge. It’s a select Congressional committee attempting to serve a subpoena to retrieve the contents of your server.

          >Run to the door, slam it shut, slide the bolt across the door.

          The server begins to blink and hum as a data transfer takes place.

          >Hack the shit out of the server with the axe.

          …..

    • Stev84

      Some say from a marketing perspective 10 sounds better than 9.

      There is also a rumor around that lots of applications check the Windows version like this:
      if(version.startsWith(“Windows 9”)) { }

      For Windows 95/98. And Windows 9 would have broken that

      • bitwise

        That’s not a rumor, many applications check windows versioning in that fashion and would absolutely break if the version info came back as “Windows 9”. You can see a hundred examples of it on GitHub.

  • Steven Leahy

    I still have my original copy of Windows 95 on nine 3.5″ floppy disks!

    • Octavio

      I still have Win95 in unopened on diskettes. I’ve probably got a trunk load. They forced them on you when you attended COMDEC on year. LOL!

  • Steven Leahy

    Anyone remember OS2 Warp?

    • Cuberly

      I LOVED OS2….such a bummer it went bye bye. Had some serious fun with it when it was alive.

  • Steven Leahy

    Anyone remember the first CD-rom operating systems but you still needed a boot floppy to load the CD-rom drivers?

    • 10 Print “Hello JalapeƱoBusiness”
      20 Goto 10

      Hello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusinessHello JalapeƱoBusiness

  • shellback

    Three words: No thanks, Linux.

    • agcons

      You got it, or Mac, when my current and beloved Win7 box finally dies.

    • Steven Leahy

      I tried Ubuntu a few times but still had issues with video drivers, etc. Haven’t tried it in a year or two, will have to check out the latest edition.

    • NZArtist

      Three words: The Witcher 3.
      Or any of a billion other games.
      How about: Oh christ I have to recompile the kernel because this new hardware has funky drivers.

  • oikos

    Control panel is going to replaced with an app among other changes

    http://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-problems-missing-features

  • Macbill

    I’ve switched to Mac after 29 yrs in a DOS/WIN environment. I am not sorry.

    • Kissmagrits

      I had over 9 years with OS-X before I got shut out by my obsolete processor. Considering Mac’s logical file and menu structure, I’m buying another Mac as soon as this PC goes bosoms skyward.

      • Schlukitz

        “Bosoms upward”

        I love it.

        Belle Barth of the Catskills borscht circuit used to use the expression “Knockers up” as part of her schtick.

        • Octavio
          • Schlukitz

            I have that album, and it’s hysterical. I got it when I was still a teenager.

            It’s not politically correct, I know, but I loved the one she tells of the guy with a hair-lip who sidles-up to her in the swimming pool at the Fontainbleu and sez “Hey lady, how would you like a grooin?”

            Her reply…

            “No thanks. I already have a watch.”

          • Octavio

            So nasty! LOL!

          • Six Pins Delores

            “Ain’t I refreshing like a douche? Tell the truth….” LOL! šŸ™‚

        • This has nothing to do with anything, but my grandparents missed one of Lenny Bruce’s nights at the Catskills because grandpa had to the emergency room for a bad ankle from a sledding accident. Talk about crappy luck! I would LOVE to go back in time to hear the classic comics in the borscht belt — after the 11:00 PM adults only performances especially.

          • Schlukitz

            Not being of the Jewish faith, my family and I never had reason to visit the Jewish hotels in the Catskills at the height of their popularity. My only familiarity with those wonderful show people, was through the recording medium, radio and tv.

          • The hotels in the Catskills were open to everyone (It is well before my time) — apparently. There were not restricted, few were kosher (for observant Jews) and many people who were not Jewish from the New York area went– but I assume that most were. It was more “New York” culture than anything, which has a strong Jewish component. These places are long gone, they are trying to open a Casino there apparently.

          • Schlukitz

            Since you seem to have an interest in the Catskills borscht belt, I thought you might enjoy this little tribute to both Kutcher’s and the movie Dirty Dancing which was filmed there.

            http://www.thirteen.org/metrofocus/2012/01/last-resort-dirty-dancing-and-the-legacy-of-the-jewish-catskills/

            Another cute little film that you might enjoy is A Walk On The Moon which takes place in a Jewish Bungalo summer camp in Sullivan County not far from where Woodstock took place.

            http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120613/

            I lived in the Catskills from 1969 until 1978 when I had to return to New York City for business reasons. I lived just outside of a small village by the name of Margaretville in Delaware County which was north of Sullivan County.

            While the majority of the more well-known Jewish hotels were locatecd in Sullivan County, there were many such hotels in Delaware County as well, in places like Margaretville, Roxbury, Arkville and Fleischmanns where I operated a business during the seven years that I lived up there.

            Consequently I became friends with a large number of Jewish people. Unfortunately, many of those people have passed on and are now just pleasant memories, much like the hotels, restaurants and bars that they lived/worked at for most of their lives.

          • You want to know something? I am too young to have experienced the Catskills even though I grew up in the New York area. But I would LOVE to be able to go back in time to the 1950’s and have a weekend at a place like Grossingers listening to the comics and pigging out on all the good old fashioned food there. Something was lost over time.

          • Schlukitz

            That would, indeed, be fun. I would love to be able to do that too.

            Among the many good Jewish friends that I made in the area, I had to good fortune to know Max and Sadie Kass who owned and operated Kass Inn in Kelly Corners, NY, which was just a tad north of Margaretville on Rt. 30 North. While they did not provide entertainment like Grossingers did, many was the birthday or special occasion that I pigged-out on the wonderful Jewish food that they served there. Sitting in front of the fireplace while enjoying a hearty meal and drink on a cold winter day was pure heaven. Here are a few pics of the inn.

            https://www.google.com/search?q=Kass+Inn+images+in+Margaretville,+NY&espv=2&biw=1260&bih=601&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CDUQ7AlqFQoTCPHNk4m_9MYCFUWTDQod-QMAhw#imgrc=D_LsGyVkjF9L0M%3A

            The fourth picture from the left, is of Main Street looking north in Margaretville where my shop was located before moving it to Fleischmanns, NY. It was taken in 1944. I moved there in 1969 and it still looked pretty much the same as then. I would have killed to have owned that gorgeous Chrysler convertible parked on the left side of the street, a car that I lusted for as a youth of 8 years back in 1944. šŸ™‚

            Someone once said that the only thing that is constant, is change. And so it is with the Catskills. Hotels like Grossingers came about as a result of the restrictions against Jews entering social places back during the early part of the 20th Century.

            With the removal of illegal discrimination against Jewish people and their assimilation into the social fabric of our country, the need for Jewish ghettos faded, along with the need to be among their own kind for acceptance.

            We are seeing the exact same thing happening within the LGBT community. When we were shunned by most of society, we too had a need to create a ghetto for our people in which we could feel safe and share our commonality, history, feelings and thoughts.

            Now that discrimination against LGBT people is no longer tolerated or accepted by a majority of our society, we too are being assimilated into our greater society and the need for a gay ghetto is passing. And while this is a good thing, it does come at the expense of the loss of our ethnic roots and customs, sad to say.

            Just as a side note, in only 100 years, the number of Jewish/Kosher New York delis have gone from 4000 to a few dozen.

            http://hipsterjew.com/jewish-delis/

          • godless pothead

            hi eddi, I just sent you a request to help me get my ‘orgin of feminazi’ out from pending & up on the ‘ask your neighbor’ main page. thank’s.
            my mom worked one season as a waitress in the concord hotel & resort in the catskills one summer in the easrly 70s, I remember seeing pictures of her & her fellow waitresses & waiters carrying these hugh trays with one hand in the middle with the edge on their shoulder stacked with plates of slabs of beef n things. I mean these big-ass ”trays” were the size of a normal table at micky d,s. how my tiny moms could carry that much food up high then shift it down on to the serving tray holder without sending food n plates crashing down to the floor.
            she said there were old men & women there who had been coming to the concord their most of life, some as the served some as the servers. each group working their way up to the prime tables, at the best pool side spot, tee times n so on. where the rich sat & the tips were the fattest. she said there were black convicts from the county jail working in the kitchen. they were chained with led irons to the stove or workstation.
            at one time before she worked there she said some of the hotels would open in the winter in the late 50s early 60s for ice skating, sledding & even skiing down the bunny hills, horse drawn ice carriages, big bonfire sing a long’s. & of course the shows.
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2234450014095a0e13d83305f0b1dae642527d3dd17f7954c8526e6a108dcbb2.jpg

          • I do not know where your request is. I see Wiki quotes the following etymology — “In his 1992 book The Way Things Ought to Be, Limbaugh credited his friend Tom Hazlett, professor of economics at the University of California at Davis, with coining the term”. I would not be surprised if the origins of the word are older– you can always contact me via email, just check my blog http://www.eddihaskell.com for my address.

          • godless pothead

            hi eddi, I just sent you an email to the the beaver, all my friend both female & male.
            all belong to every social media outlet & or have https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/517a78a29f5b258106cb5e331230ec47610dfd604471baf97617569f5bdc8ab2.jpg a blog & or pod cast, & have been since they were , not me, i called / call them barbie, every time I catch one of them sneaking a peek at their eye-anchors, let me know if the note went through, oh yeah topic,,, uh ,,go windows 10?

          • LOL i like that shirt. I think they mean the guy on Leave it to Beaver though šŸ™‚

        • Lumpy Gaga

          Wasn’t that Rusty Warren?

  • Rick

    Needs more puppies.

  • Schlukitz

    Aha. Another M$ edition of Winbloze.

    Rotsa ruck.

  • joe ho
    • I agree. Wait a few months. :There are bound to be problems.

  • POLL. Microsoft has hinted (I am not making this up) that they might go to a subscription model for Windows 10 in the future — in other words in 2 years time, they want to charge users a fee (say $5.00) a month to continue to use a supported (i.e, with security patches) version of Windows 10. Now, how many of you are willing to pay monthly to use a maintained version of Windows? Anyone? Oh, one more thing. Windows 10 will be the LAST version of Windows ever released. We might have version 10.5 in seven years, but everything will be Windows 10 forever. ?????? So they raise the secondary digit only and we are supposed to be impressed???????

    • NZArtist

      You’re impressed by a developer updating the number?
      OSX has been 10.x since forever.

      • Im not that is just the point. Beware of marketing gimmicks šŸ™‚

    • The majority of everyday PC users are going to use Windows 10. Average people buy a PC at a big box store, it comes with Windows that’s what they will use. I don’t really see an option for them.

    • Kathleen

      Actually, Windows 10 stays free for the life of the device. It’s not a subscription, not a trial, its a full version of Windows and, yeah, it really is a free upgrade. Microsoft is no longer charging for the operating system. They’ll hope you buy other stuff, like apps and games and their new streaming music service, but there’s no charge for the upgrade ever.

      • Mike in Texas

        Exactly. The subscription model theory comes from a certain tier of tech writers who attempt to read between the lines of Microsoft statements and press releases. Clickbait.

        I am not a techie, just a self-taught enthusiast. But some of the sheer nonsense put out by so-called tech writers is astonishing.

  • Silver Badger

    Microsoft has always used its customers to do the final testing. We may want to wait a year to see how things work out.

  • LonelyLiberal

    I signed my mother up for it, but we’ll wait a bit. She has Windows 8 and hates it.

    I have 7 and I’m currently content, but I’ll go to 10 after they stabilize the thing.

  • Ore Carmi

    I’ll have to get new drapes.

  • People4Humanity

    ļ£æ Appleā„¢ has been running its OS X [currently version 10.10.4] for many moon. Trouble-free, syncs with your other ļ£æ devices, intuitive. Gladly I will lap up any tears y’all cry over Windoze 10.

    Edit: The upgrades and continuing maintenance are free.

  • Gregory In Seattle

    I have no intention of leaving Windows 7. If forced, I already have a Linux machine ready to go.

  • canoebum

    I built and upgraded all my PCs until 2006, when I bought my first new one, a Dell, which I only replaced last week. It came with Windows 8.1, so 10 has been been downloading in the background periodically during the day.
    I stated out taking a course in BASIC in college in 1983. Later I volunteered for a non-profit, managing their mailing lists, merging letters and creating and printing mailing labels, as well as some accounting.
    I later ran a summer stock theater for four years, created all the playbills, wrote the press releases, posters and tickets(to be sent to the ticket printing company). I did all this with a hard drive of 40mb and 640 kbs of RAM.
    Later, before there were blogs (the term hadn’t been coined yet), I created a personal website on canoeing, with my own stories, photos, maps and camping advice. I collected and scanned pieces of white birch bark to use as the background. It was pretty neat. The whole thing is still on the 3 1/2 inch floppies in a box in my closet. I called it Karmakozi’s Sweatlodge. I had no idea how to promote it or get other people to find it, so they could contribute their own content.

    A friend of mine made me aware of the internet In 1995. I wanted to get connected so I could run [email protected] on my PC, which I’ve been doing now for 20 years. I haven’t found a message from ET yet, but, hell, it’s a big universe.

  • uhhuhh

    Ugh. Well, they just made me not want it with that mindless breeder ad. “Oh, a baby…I want Windows 10!!!” NOT

  • John

    Windows 10ā€”For Babies

  • goofy_joe

    I liked the hot Dad in the river with his son fishing…but that’s about all I got out of it. šŸ™‚

  • DesertSun59

    Just because MS has an Indian-American at the helm, and just because they skipped v.9, and just because they have a slick ad campaign… well, nothing will ever change the fact that it’s filled with holes and is still virus and spyware prone like no other OS in the history of the world.

    Nothing will ever change that fact. Windows is the SOLE reason why viruses and spyware have been the bane of our existence since it first appeared on the scene. It was an OS designed by and for engineers, NOT the general public.

    Signed, a 25 year veteran of the IT industry.