Gay Men Married To Women Tell SCOTUS: Don’t Demean Our Opposite-Sex Marriages

Mark Joseph Stern writes at Slate:

There are a lot of terrible arguments against same-sex marriage, but this may be the worst: The Supreme Court must not protect gay couples’ marriages, because doing so would demean marriages between gay men and their wives. That, in a nutshell, is the argument put forth in an amicus brief recently filed by a group who call themselves “same-sex attracted men and their wives.” These men don’t claim to have become straight through conversion therapy—though a group of self-proclaimed ex-gays did file their own deeply sad and strange brief. Nor do they claim to be bisexual. Rather, these men admit that they’re “same-sex attracted,” but insist that “a Constitutional right to same-sex marriage can only come at the cost of marginalizing and demeaning the marriages and families” of gay men married to straight women. And that risk, they say, is reason enough for the court to rule against marriage equality.

From the brief:

Underlying petitioners’ appeal is this premise: the right of same-sex attracted men and women to marry a member of the opposite sex is meaningless. That premise underlies petitioners’ equal-protection arguments that man-woman marriage laws “prohibit gay men and lesbians from marrying. Man-woman definitions of marriage can prohibit, foreclose, disqualify, and exclude gay men and lesbians from marriage only if it is impossible or entirely undesirable — that is, meaningless—for same-sex attracted men and women to marry members of the opposite sex. Petitioners do not argue that only some, or even many, gay men and lesbians are prohibited from marrying; they insist, and their arguments depend on their proving, that marriage is foreclosed for all same-sex attracted men and women.

Among the brief’s listed “authorities” is Mormon “ex-gay” conversion therapist Josh Weed, who in 2012 wrote a widely-circulated blog post which claimed that he is a happily opposite-married gay man with a “robust sex life” with his wife. Also quoted is homocon nutjob and NOM ally Doug Mainwaring, about whom I’ve written many times. According to Mainwaring, same-sex marriage will bring about the literal end of human civilization.

  • Menergy

    Say whaaaaat? More unintelligible word salad and really devoid of reason.

  • vorpal

    It looks like SCOTUS is going to have comedic gold to enjoy for months to come.

    I can’t believe that these people actually exist. I had to pinch myself to see if I was still asleep in bed and dreaming.

    • David Lightman

      All of Scalia’s opinions already are comedic gold.

      • vorpal

        This is true. When Scalia’s mouth opens, world records for stupid are often shattered.

  • TommyTune

    Just when you think you’ve heard the most ludicrous argument against same-sex marriage yet, along comes this humdinger of an absurdity.

    • The other side tried to get creative and generate new arguments against same-sex marriage in order to find
      something that would actually work. Their problem is that the new arguments they generated were completely absurd. They have certainly left no stone unturned but at the same time they seem to be incapable of understanding that overturning the stone doesn’t mean that the argument is fit for use.

    • Mark

      I know you’re right – as I have no fucking clue as to what they said! I read it twice! And still – well, I don’t know cuz I can’t figure out what they said.

      • John30013

        I was going to order some bleu cheese dressing with that word salad.

        You’re right: it’s completely incomprehensible.

        • Mark

          salad? soup? or maybe a ‘fail’ handoff at a drive thru??

        • I disagree. This word salad would be better with ranch dressing, and chicken in a light mustard sauce.

          • John30013

            Upvoting you for the general comment, but I’m not really a ranch dressing type of guy. (I prefer my ranch hands undressed, tyvm 😉

          • I know there’slotsa applicants for the ranch hand uh job

    • Ninja0980

      I have to wonder if some of these people are truly gay or just saying they are to rake in the $$$$.

  • anne marie in philly

    HUH? WUT?

    • BuffaloDan

      You know when you have a bit too much to drink and words start dancing around on printed pages and language loses all meaning…? Yeah: I think that’s their point, to make us all so intellectually punch-drunk that we’ll feel sorry for them all. Like, when buzzed, you start crying because the silverware is so beautiful, or something. Is that their plan? Because, otherwise, and to quote: “HUH? WUT!”

    • IamM

      Precisely.

  • BearEyes

    Any of the guys on that mormon show on tlc write this?

  • oikos

    “Don’t demean my totally sham marriage because I like to suck cock on the DL.”

  • Oscarlating Wildely

    I saw this brief earlier and have to note an immediate response: For all my bi brethren and sistren, this is not what we should be about.

    Human attraction is complex, admittedly. Identifying as bi or fluid or queer or pan or whatever else does not indicate a thing about how one’s marriage will proceed. Attacking opposite sex marriages for those who are also attracted to the same sex is founded on ill contempt and assumptions. But to deny our gay and lesbian friends the right to the same is absolutely unacceptable. This level of personal attack may be founded on all sorts of layers of I don’t even know what. But the suggestion in this brief is beyond the pale and simply insulting to the LGBT community as a whole.

    Live one’s life with the person one loves: that should be the rule regardless of orientation. This brief suggests otherwise, drawing on a sick enjoyment of seeing others being denied their own relationships and long term personal safety and growth. It is selfish and wrong.

    • mari

      Thank you. Every time one of these ridiculous arguments is made, I think of some friends of mine, who, after same-sex relationships ended (in one case because of the death of the other partner) entered into long-term opposite-sex relationships. Not one of them felt it necessary to deny the previous relationship or the fact that they were attracted to people of both sexes in order to justify the new one. They were all very matter of fact about that aspect. They just wanted us to know they’d fallen in love again, wasn’t that great? And, yes, it was.

      • Herald

        I have a good friend who was in an opposite-sex marriage, her husband died. Later on she married a woman, with whom she shares a deep love. We are so happy for her, end of story!

        • Octavio

          That’s a great story. You can tell it again, if you want. 🙂

    • ZRAinSWVA

      I find bisexual people so confusing. I mean, I think the female form can be beautiful and all, but sexy? Give me a big, strong furry chest any day…

      • I think grrlz are gorgeous. But then, I are one.

  • Gustav2

    Soooo, your fake str8 marriage will fall apart if we get married. That’s more about how tentative your marriage is and says nothing about mine.

    • MarkOH

      Amen. So, they made a choice to marry a woman, missing out on marrying the man of their dreams so now other, happy same sex couples should not be allowed to marry? Wow. Sad. reminds me of Willoughby from Sense and Sensibility, who, chose money over love. This last look summed it all up.

      • Mawm

        Lav, but no monay

        • MarkOH

          Elinor Dashwood: Poor Willoughby. He will always regret you.
          Marianne:
          But does it follow that, had he chosen me, he would have been
          content? He would have had a wife he loved, but no money, and might soon
          have learned to rank the demands of his pocketbook far above the
          demands of his heart. If his present regrets are half as painful as
          mine, he will suffer enough.

          • Mawm

            I love the book, but totally adore the movie. My Mom recently died of cancer. That is her near the end as my avatar. She, my sister, and I would watch this movie together and cry. It was so wonderful. Whenever I see any reference to it. I think of her.
            We would say to each other, with our best British accents, “Lavd, but no monay.” and laugh ridiculously.
            I miss her so much.

          • MarkOH

            I am sorry for your loss;. But what a wonderful story, and a lovely lady.

    • TampaZeke

      They don’t like being reminded that they could have had monogamy, children and a house in the suburbs AND satisfying sex with a HUSBAND. Or as they put it, having the visualization of happy homasekshul families being “SHOVED DOWN THEIR THROATS!”

      It always comes down to obsessions over things being shoved down throats with these “non-gay” people.

      • Caliban M

        Yes, and now they are left with a wife and furtive sex in bus terminal restrooms with other men.

      • Lawerence Collins

        Things like this?

        • JoeNCA

          Now I’m all distracted!

          • Lawerence Collins

            Fit-hairy-guys.tumblr
            Enjoy the view. Not safe for work or driving😜

    • Prixator

      I’m sure someone else noticed that this brief was filed by a lawyer in Utah. Aren’t these the same couples that were on that TV show – “My Husband is Gay”. Or was it “My Husband’s Not Gay for Now”? Or, maybe “My Husband is only Gay When I’m Not Around”?

    • Tell em, Gustav.
      I’m appalled that Utah is pretending to represent hetmarried gays. I call bullshit!

  • LovesIrony

    If that doesn’t convince Kennedy to rule against us, nothing will 🙂

    • Todd20036

      Or even Roberts

  • Look at how they word argument 1: “Contrary to petitioners’ arguments, man woman marriage laws do not prohibit foreclose, disqualify, and/or exclude same-sex attracted men and women from the institution of man-woman marriage” —–well yeah, laws prohibiting same sex marriage doesn’t stop gay people from entering into heterosexual marriage but that’s not the point, it still excludes them from the kind of marriage they would actually want. This would be exactly like saying “well inter-racial marriage bans don’t exclude anyone from entering into marriage with someone of the same race and thus they don’t exclude anyone” this argument is beyond dumb, it is completely idiotic and not worthy of serious consideration.

    • RNegron

      It was also an argument that was actualy used against IR marriage. The dumb just came around again.

      • Exactly. The argument is just as absurd now as it was then but the other side uses the same debunked arguments anyway because they don’t have anything of any substance to say. Lacking any valid arguments they use what they got, regardless of how flimsy and obviously flawed it is.

      • Rambie

        All the old bigotry is new again! I’m sure they’ll save ’em just in case they can use them against next group they try oppress.

    • GayOldLady

      I’ve often thought how these arguments against same-sex marriage remind me of the arguments against interracial marriage. I knew several people who walked away from the person they were in love with because their skin color was different. I saw that happen even after Loving V. Virginia. The truth is that the closer we get to a ruling in favor of Marriage Equality the more desperate and bizarre these arguments will become. We need to go ahead and pop the popcorn because on the day the ruling in favor of Marriage Equality comes from SCOTUS it’s going to be quite a show!!!!!!

    • Steverino

      It’s like the idiotic argument making wing-nut rounds that bans on same-sex marriages don’t discriminate against gays, because straights are banned from entering into same-sex marriages, as well.

      • Right, simply making a rule universal doesn’t mean it isn’t discriminatory. For example if a passed a law saying that no religious building could be open on Sunday it would apply to everyone but it would only target and affect religious traditions that used Sunday as their day of worship. You would think that the other side would stick to arguments that at least take a little bit of effort to respond to.

    • Yeah they’re pretending to address the issue.
      Grrr.

  • RNegron

    Yes, Josh has a robust sex life with his wife. All those strapons did not get rubbed to the nub all by themselves.

    • William

      One lucky person gets to put the bucket on his or her head, while the other swings on the handle.

      • ZhyKitty

        LMAO

    • Gene

      now I gotta go watch Prescilla 😉
      thanks for that

    • Steverino

      Robust? Sounds robotic, to me.

  • HeyBudBoston

    Does the word “bisexual” not exist in certain states, certain dictionaries, or certain minds?

    • GC

      And when people who are bi or pan or fluid marry same-sex partners, the sky completely and utterly fails to fall.

    • Mark

      It’s either “them” or “us” in all the red states. That’s it.

    • Rambie

      Bigoted minds do not see shades of gray. It’s all false dichotomies with them, like GWB’s, “You’re with us or against us” bs.

      • As a hetmarried married gay, I say these crazies are against us, lacking any reasonable argument for denying everyone rights, and recognition for every family.

    • Good point. Still, maybe they really gay in hetmarriages like mine. Well not like mine. These people are misguided, off-topic, and, well, Mormon.

  • Baltimatt

    Where do these people come from? Who’s behind this group?

    • Octavio

      The Provo-based Cookie Lovers Association. They’re mostly from Utah County, UT and hopped up on sugar.

      • Nuffg Said

        You misspelled “kooky”.

  • TampaZeke

    At this point the absurdity of the briefs against marriage equality are more convincing arguments for same sex marriage than anything we have to offer.

    I think we should just give them as much rope as they will take and rest our case.

    • Gene

      you are so right TampaZeke. At this point, the opposition is just looking, well..silly.

      And, when we get full marriage equality, HOW would that even really affect such “”gay man straight woman marriages”?

      I would think the biggest impediment to such crazy unions would be the innate intelligence and desire for happiness of most heterosexual women! Out marriages do NOT make straight women stupid or desperate in any way they (individually) are not already

      • Mawm

        The success of their marriages depends on everyone else’s being just as miserable.

        • ZhyKitty

          That is just SO selfish and sad…and frankly, I think it’s childish, too.

          • Todd20036

            no arguments. Throw in a little narcissism and that pretty much sums up their entire psyche. That being said, why in the world would these women marry someone who more likely than not is going to sleep with guys on the DL?

          • Mawm

            Self-esteem issues

          • People do strange things.
            This brief may be the strangest.
            WTF???

          • They’re living a lie.

          • ZhyKitty

            OTQ: Are you the same Jay Sheckley my twin sister Candy (before Candy died) and I are friends with on FB?

          • OMG!!! YES! Youre the dog & cat savior, yeah? xxxxx I LOVED Candy! I wanted to drive her to the hospital and straighten out those hospital people. I’m STILL frustrated. :’) I’m the one who called her an angel and I stand by that even though it made her laugh

          • ZhyKitty

            Yeah, Candy loved you too. : )

            And ah…” savior” is a bit extreme, but thanks for the compliment. lol

    • Mark

      I’m remembering that old game show line ..something about it’s not what you do say but what you don’t say…or something to that effect.

    • YES!!!!!!!!

  • Argument 2 “Significant numbers of same-sex attracted men and women choose the unique institution of man-woman marriage”—–okay, well good for them, a bunch of people also choose not to get married at all so what is their point? The fact that a significant number of people do something is NOT a reason for saying that others aren’t allowed to do something different.

    Argument 3 “The institution of man-woman marriage is unique because of its procreative power and complementary capacity”—— NOPE, not going to fly. As has been established time and time again marriage is NOT limited to heterosexual couples who have the capacity to reproduce nor is there anything beyond the potential to reproduce that makes heterosexuals more “complementary” as compared to homosexuals. Thus neither complementarity nor procreative power can be used as
    an excuse or justification for denying marriage to same-sex couples.

  • Bj Lincoln

    My marriage does not demean anyone’s marriage. If you feel demeaned, that’s your problem, not mine.

    • Herald

      Absolutely, these marriages sound very fragile and sad. Just because they are so troubled does not mean everyone else has to be in the same awful shape. They need lots of help!

      • Randy

        But, they must ALREADY be demeaned! After all, gays are getting married in most states now, and Canada and plenty of other places. So they have to show us exactly how their marriage is demeaned.

        and if it is, then imagine how demeaning it is to love someone and you CANT marry him or her!

        • These particular hetmarried gays are so confused they fail to see de meaning of anything

    • GayOldLady

      Preach it Bj. They’re just jealous because you did what they were afraid to do.

  • BobSF_94117

    Not to mix threads, but I pray the SCOTUS minions read this brief…

    • Stev84

      Thread mixing is prohibited by Leviticus.

  • RyanInIllinois

    Is it possible that we’ve actually found the last – and most ridiculous – argument against same-sex marriage?

    • Stev84

      Nah. It’s a bottomless barrel

    • I don’t know, the argument that marriage equality is a form of sex discrimination because in a male-male
      marriage all women are excluded from the marriage seems like stiff completion for the title of most ridiculous argument. Both get to go In the top 10 most ridiculous arguments I think but beyond that it’s hard to narrow down which is worse than the other.

    • Mawm

      Never underestimate the power of these people to find a new level of ridiculousness.

    • Nuff said
    • This preposterous argument was implicit in all the claims that unigender marriage would undermine hetmarriage. I’m a hetmarried gay in California. Rights for all!!!

  • Sam_Handwich

    • Oscarlating Wildely

      Ruth’s face says it all.

    • David Lightman

      Where is Thomas giving a smile and thubs up?

      • lymis

        Thumbs up what? Scalia?

  • Monty

    Isn’t it time to bring Regnerus back?

    • Sam_Handwich

      He’s moved on to other interests.He’s now running the largest cat baptizing business in Texas.

      • Rocketeer500

        Bless his heart.

  • GayOldLady

    To my mind this brief highlights how insecure the marriages of the petitioners are. It’s a convoluted sort of jealousy, not unlike the guy who forgoes buying the scratch off lottery ticket 1 second before the guy who’s waiting in line right behind him buys the winning 1 million dollar scratch off ticket. It’s a “what if” mindset that can only be satisfied if “you” can’t have what “he” decided he couldn’t take a chance on. The brief is just sour grapes and downright ignorant.

    • medaka

      Nice new avatar, GL!

      • GayOldLady

        Thank you. 🙂

        • Octavio

          Hillary the Riveter? Interesting.

          • GayOldLady

            I think it suits Hillary, don’t you? I worked in Aerospace & Engineering most of my career, maybe that’s why it appeals to me so much. I even worked with some of the women who did those assembly line jobs during WWII. They were amazing women.

          • Octavio

            I like it! 🙂

    • Cuberly

      I’m viewing this as a form of twisted revenge. They felt compelled to conform therefore all lgbts should do the same.

      They didn’t feel compelled to fight for a choice and neither should we, or at least that’s how I’m reading it.

      Either way, they be sad sad folks.

      • GayOldLady

        Right on!

  • j.martindale

    I was married to a woman at one time. It was not a “fake marriage,” as some here would call it. We had the best of intentions when we wed. If you can imagine people as bisexual, you should have no problem understanding people who are young making such choices. Fifteen years later in life, I found my homosexuality could not be repressed any longer, divorced, and met a man I lived with 25 years and have now married.

    These people are entitled to their lives and their choices. I wouldn’t presume to judge how they live. If they are happy with it, great. But they can fucking mind their own business and stay out of the lives of gay people who have every bit as much right to a happy relation (read “marriage”) as they do.

    • Cuberly

      I’ve known my share of gay men that married women. Some with an “understanding” re; dalliances outside the marriage. On such man I used to hook up with, over a span of two years, used to constantly lecture me about being out. How it was doomed and I’d be miserable. Yet he was one of the most miserable men I ever met. He and his wife eventually divorced, he then married another woman and started the whole down-low thing all over again.

      To your point, I completely agree. Not having an option for SSM does harm with many of us though.

    • Hear, hear!

  • Mark

    IF they are so insecure that two men getting married demeans “their marriage,” then there are a lot more problems to be identified and worked on than once can even begin to imagine. Sham marriages….

  • Ragnar Lothbrok

    ReDICKulous.

    • David Lightman

      Or as Adam Carolla would say, recockulous

      • Ragnar Lothbrok

        Isn’t Adam a total RWNJ ?

    • Mawm

      As Ja’mie would say, Ridicks

  • And for their final argument: “A constitutional mandate requiring same-sex marriage sends a harmful message that it is impossible, unnatural, and dangerous for the same-sex attracted to marry members of the opposite sex” —–no not really. I mean by that logic saying that people can get married sends a harmful message that it is impossible, unnatural, and dangerous for people to not get married. Allowing people to do something doesn’t mean that all other options are off the table. Gay people who want to marry a heterosexuals still are free to do so under a law that allows people of the same sex to get married. Now true, these mixed orientation marriages may feel less validated if the law gives them other options that they could have picked but so what? It isn’t the laws job to make people who decide to enter into a mixed orientation marriage feel good about said decision. These arguments are so flimsy that it is possible to refute them just by looking at the titles.

  • chrisjames147

    So I imagine all these anti-gay marriage briefs are nailed to the wall in the SCOTUS bathroom because they are only worthy of wiping ass….and it makes me smile. You never know how many crazies are out there until something serious comes along.

  • lymis

    If they want to argue that there are reasons to marry that don’t involve sexual attraction to your spouse, fine. People have married for all sorts of reasons throughout history. And continue to do so today.

    Since absolutely nobody is proposing any law anywhere prohibiting openly gay people from marrying an opposite sex partner, this argument is completely moot.

    And the Supreme Court is hardly likely to declare that the right to marry is based on government-mandated approval by everyone else that you made the right choice of spouses, this argument is a non-starter.

    Even if it were demonstrably true that legal same-sex marriage cause obviously sham marriages to be subject to heightened public mockery, that’s outside of the government’s business.

    It’s not like there aren’t large numbers of perfectly legal unquestionably straight marriages that people look at and shake their heads in wonder – or even point and laugh at.

    I absolutely support the right of two consenting adults to make the choice of who to marry – and if a woman wants to marry an openly gay man, they’re free to do so. If asked, I’ll freely say it’s not a choice I’d make, but if they’re happy, it’s none of my business.

    But this is, essentially, no different than a mediocre white basketball player demanding that all black people be barred from playing because it undercuts his chances for making the team. Well, it’s different in one respect – there is no zero-sum limit to the number of available marriages, and there’s no competition for available licenses.

    Personally, I thoroughly approve of the idea of a world where a gay man can openly marry a woman if that’s what the two of them decide. But legally, we’re already there, and I don’t want a world where ANYONE thinks it’s the government’s job to help them make it work by restricting the rights of others to make a different choice.

    • Mawm

      Sorry, you had to waste some very decent brain cells on this.

      • LonelyLiberal

        They only get better through exercise. And Lymis exercises his brain cells a lot. They can probably lift twenty pounds each.

  • zhera

    And here I thought that Delgaudio and ROL would win the prize for Most Insane Argument Ever.

    • ZhyKitty

      This one is just so embarrassing, it’s beyond blush-worthy. Can you imagine if someone actually SAID these things in a room full of people? The embarrassed silence to follow would be agonizing while people tried hard not to look at one another in order to avoid laughing in their faces, which would be rude in a social setting.. but really hard not to do in this case.

      • Rocketeer500

        Disagree. Sometimes it’s better to point and laugh!

      • zhera

        I would laugh loud and freely! 😀

        • ZhyKitty

          If you did that down here, the sound of your laughing would be accompanied by the sound of proper ladies fainting on the floor all around you due to the excessive breach of decorum…and then I’d have to join you….Mother would NEVER recover from the shame…

          LMAO

          • zhera

            But I’m from Norway. We don’t do decorum. 😀

          • lymis

            Decorum? Isn’t that the new table from Ikea?

          • zhera

            Actually, it’s a ceiling lamp. It has built-in fans for the easily embarrassed. 😉

  • Dagoril

    Oh honeys, you already demeaned your own marriages and the women you married, by marrying them in the first place when you felt nothing for them. Don’t try to drag us into your personal hells.

    • ZhyKitty

      I can understand these marriages if it’s a case of two best friends, perhaps of a certain age, who’re already divorced or widowed and just “over it”, or maybe doing it for the benefits like maybe because one is sick or dying and they’ve made some sort of pact. I would do that without hesitation for my best friend if he asked it of me under those circumstances…I think a lot of people would…but you know, there’d be no farcical pretending that it was something it wasn’t, and most certainly there wouldn’t be.. I can’t even write it.

      • Mawm

        These people did it to please their imaginary friend, not their real one.

        • ZhyKitty

          That, I have trouble wrapping my head around. I really do.
          I just can’t see that leading to much besides disappointment, bitterness, resentment, depression, etc.
          People have needs…

          • TommyTune

            I can name several people right off the bat who are in pretend marriages. In one case it’s the owner of a funeral home. He had a gay commitment ceremony back in the 80’s, his parents found out about it and were not amused. They revised their will to state that if he wanted to inherit the family business he would have to marry a woman and sire a child, so that’s exactly what he did. Every time I see him I feel a bit sorry for him, but not too much because he’s very rich and no doubt fools around every chance he gets. I don’t feel sorry for his pretend wife either, because from what I’ve been told, she was a gold-digger who knew exactly what she was getting into. She keeps a careful eye on the hubby when he’s around other men, I’ve noticed, however.

        • Nuff Said

          I would argue that social pressure from their circle of very real relatives and acquaintances played a role as well.

      • LonelyLiberal

        This is because you’re a Very Good Person.

        Why these people are complaining, I’m not sure. But I am sure they’re not being good people by doing so.

      • I’m a hetmarried gay. It happens. I fell in love. So much socially easier to find a het partner. But those folks in the briefs aren’t defending marriage, they’re just nuts.

        • ZhyKitty

          You live your life and do whatever makes you happy! : )

  • Mark

    …and they were worried we were gonna marry animals??? WTF??

    • lymis

      Sadly, to read their opinions, most of the people who advocate gay men marrying women don’t seem to have even that high an opinion of women.

    • Heehee.

  • IamM

    Yet again, no one else’s marriage can affect the value or quality of yours.

    And, I think most people in interracial marriages could have found someone of their own skin tone who they could’ve been happily married to, but clearly that and the fact that some strangers and relatives would rather they had is not remotely enough to justify allowing government to ban interracial marriages.

    What it boils down to: People who choose to marry a same-sex partner have the same right to demand that government recognize and respect their choices as everyone else does.

  • Octavio

    Re: Josh Weed and his “robust” sex life. He’s a mormon. So for him a robust sex life involves interior decorating and eating snicker doodles under the sheets before, during, and after sex.

    • I prefer chocolate chip cookies with caramel chips added.

  • Bradford Kelly

    Where does one start with people like this?

    The level of self loathing that these gay men would feel must be crippling. Their wives must be sad Women lacking in self esteem. Theres a distinct difference between marrying a Woman and coming out (sometimes years) later and these whack jobs who have entered into this willingly and are now defending it all the way to the supreme court with a view to harming members of their own community.

    Its times like this where I realise that maybe George and Martha and their blue haired, blonde eyed boy were really only damaging themselves as opposed to these fuckers who are actively harming others..

    Frankly, given the choice I would have dinner with George and Martha over these self loathing fuckers.

  • JJS_prime

    These traitors are worse than Tony and the other haters.

  • Oh, brother! Their argument is that is SSM is legal, they would be tempted to leave their beards? And their beards are afraid they would lose their meal ticket?

    While I don’t mind the fact that they have chosen to “live a lie” in order to appear to be straight in their communities, churches, or businesses – I am quite annoyed that they feel the need to make sure everyone else is swept into the same sort of closet.

    I had an uncle who passed away last year, who came out to the family as gay in the 1990’s, who had been married to his wife since the early 1950’s – and they still remained married until he passed away. They had an arrangement that worked for them. But I know my uncle would be appalled that there are other gay men with beards who would want to deprive others of rights.

    • I know, right? Have any of these deniers read the cases?

  • Octavio

    I just realized I actually know a gay man married to a straight woman, and they live in Utah! Their marriage is mostly predicated on their mutual passion for architecture. And “he” married “her” so “she” could stay in the USA, thus avoiding being deported back to a Balkin warring state. She now owns and runs the firm that employs “him”. Again, the different world of Utah and its peculiar people . . . ooooofta.

  • Nuff Said

    “Petitioners do not argue that only some, or even many, gay men and lesbians are prohibited from marrying; they insist, and their arguments depend on their proving, that marriage is foreclosed for all same-sex attracted men and women.”

    By this argument, Affirmative Action would be illegal because there is at least one rich black man somewhere in America.

    “Petitioners do not argue that only some, or even many, (African Americans) are (economically disadvantaged); they insist, and their arguments depend on their proving, that (economic success) is foreclosed for all (African American) men and women.”

    Edited to show the absurdity of their argument by analogy.

  • penpal

    I’ve always said that a homosexual man married to a woman who is claiming to have a “robust sex life” with her can’t possibly imagine how much more satisfying the sex is with another man, and how much more fulfilling the relationships are. But now I’m not so sure about that. I think that whenever these sad specimens try to have sex with another man, or attempt a relationship, they feel nothing but crushing self-loathing. They feel loathing for their partner, their gay friends, the whole community. That’s how deep the sickness runs. These men need therapy, and I’m not talking about the debunked conversion therapy sham shit they’ve all endured.

    • Stev84

      A good percentage of them are probably bisexual. Some may be mostly into men but it easily explains how they can really be attracted to women.

      • Maybe not. Who cares? Religious nuttery does not justify denying fellow gays’ families the same rights and protections

  • Ian

    A gay man married to a woman is a sad, sad thing. Even sadder if you think that entitles you to some sort of medal?

    • That’s exactly what they think. And if they get no prize, you can’t have dinner.

  • canoebum

    In what way does this address the two questions the court asked to be answered? Same thing goes for the last dozen or so of these wackadoodle briefs filed with the court. Answer the damned questions or begone!

  • John Calendo

    This is getting so Dee-lightful. We are now at a Science-Fiction level of argumentation. Oh the Joy!

    • Nuff Said

      I’ll give you the “fiction” part, but where does “science” enter the picture?

  • Jack

    To clarify: Josh Weed is cited in the brief. He is not part of the group that filed the brief. Doug Mainwaring is part of the group that filed the brief.

    Interestingly enough, there is legitimate peer-reviewed research which shows that girls raised in “mixed orientation” marriages do worse than their peers. They are less likely to trust others and have a much harder time forming relationships. So not only do these men warp their own lives in order to conform to some religious text, they also warp the lives of their daughters. And we need to ban gay marriage in order to preserve this harmful farce.

  • David Lightman

    So basically their argument is they alone should have monopoly when it comes to demeaning the institution of marriage?

  • so they openly admit they are attracted to men and claim they are not bisexual. I wonder what the stipulations are on their inheritances and trust funds. “Marry a woman, make us some grandchildren, or you’re cut off.”

    … it does happen. And of course, I don’t know if any of them even have an inheritance or TF, just throwing that out there if someone hasn’t already.

  • Queequeg

    That joins the long list of convoluted arguments against marriage equality. If the justices actually read them, I would expect them to help our side.

  • Stephen

    I guess they never heard of internal homophobia!

  • Cuberly

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  • Matthew Cimino

    This is just so fucking stupid.

  • “Underlying petitioners’ appeal is this
    premise: the right of same-sex attracted men and women to marry a
    member of the opposite sex is meaningless.”
    You damned tootin’ it is, Skippy! And you also know damned good-and-well why.

    I want to see the names of the members of this “group” who filed the brief – I’ll bet there is butcher’s bill of known frauds, shysters, and “reparative therapy” advocates behind this bullshit.

    • There’s the names of a few idiots at the end… Meh, what jerks

  • Ninja0980

    Misery doesn’t love company.
    If you want to be in a loveless, emotionally void marriage, that’s your right.
    But don’t ask the rest of us to do the same.

  • Mike C

    As my mother might say, “Go on. Keep talking. Keep digging.”

  • Secure

    Will a huge number of Christians, Mormons, Hindus, Muslims and others 100% fully support their straight children getting involved or marrying an ex-gay man or woman? They won’t answer that question.

    • lymis

      Moot point. Nimrod isn’t even claiming to be ex-gay. Would any of those people want their straight children marrying a still-gay?

  • DaveMiller135

    They bowed to societal pressure and got married to a partner they wouldn’t have preferred. And now they want their sacrifice honored. And think about it, how much of an idiot would someone like John Travolta or Tom Cruise look, if they came out now, after decades of denial? But the gist of it remains, “I ruined two lives with my marriage. Don’t let what I sacrificed for you (the world) be in vain.”

    • Agree. “They….married a partner they
      wouldn’t have preferred. And now they want their sacrifice honored.” And it IS being honored! They get all the rights and protections of marriage. The rights everyone should have!

  • TheSeer

    “These arguments are not those of serious people.”
    Judge Heyburn

  • Queequeg

    What they are saying is “don’t demean marriage, let us continue to do that”.

  • Jude Newton

    According to Mainwaring, same-sex marriage will bring about the literal end of human civilization.

    There are over a billion people in China alone. I don’t think a few million s/s marriages in the little ole US of A is going to put a ripple in human civilization.You are, of course, an idiot, Mainwaring.

  • Gary Holewinski

    I thought that was called a beard. Just because they want a fake marriage ,you don’t have to deny same sex couples the same right. Gay couples should be able to marry for money or what ever too.

  • Ore Carmi

    Quite selfish of them. What do they care if most gay people marry members of their own sex?

  • Aikane Kai

    Got to be christers

    • mormon

      • Aikane Kai

        which is a sect of christers

        • That’s what they claim. But they’re as much like Christians as Muslims are: They have their on post Jesus prophet/s, antigay fits, and weird afterlife stories

          • Aikane Kai

            Delusional, self-righteous control-freaks. That certainly sounds like your average religionist to me, including christers.

  • Sorry I’m late, guys, I had dentistry all week. This alleged argument is insane, wrong-headed, evil and on top of all that, it is undeniably Mormon, and therefore unfit as civil law. Yes, there are millions of us hetmarried gays. Millions! Please notice this wacky brief is not from many of us, and except as anecdotes obliquely suggesting the disproven thesis that unigender marriage drives out hetmarriage, it doesn’t make sense.
    Yes, we’re still gay: Call it “same sex attracted” if you must. And yes we enjoy the security of marriage. Yes our lives might look crazy from the outside, it’s hard for folks to grok what’s up with us, and sure a person can get wistful for the path not taken, and that fabulous blonde who… nevermind.
    So effing what? What is the matter with these people? Are they scared? Why? I too am hetmarried for 27 years, but I am not living a lie. I know who I am and I know what’s right. Have these guys even read the cases of Jim Obergefell, or the Michigan hero nurses? WTF??? They do not answer the question posed by the court. They give no reason that legal marriages should go unrecognized, or that ceremonies should not be performed.
    I for one am desperate to share with ALL my brothers and sisters the huge privilege I’ve had since I was a kid of 18. Liberty for all hurts no one! Civil rights NOW! Recognition of all families RETROACTIVELY! End the stays! 5th circuit rule! People are suffering. Get ‘er done!
    ::falling down gasping::

    • PS Maybe since they admit they’re gays in hetmarriages who are against everyone having rights, THEIR marriages should be annulled. See how they like it!

  • danolgb

    Apparently, Josh Weed and his wife aren’t happy about being cited in the brief and say they’re pro-marriage equality.

    http://www.sltrib.com/news/2400859-155/mormon-couple-object-to-inclusion-in

  • Regan DuCasse

    This means that these people think that ONLY heterosexuals should marry whatever sexual orientation person THEY want to. But no one else can marry the compatible person who SHARES the same sexual orientation.

    That would only make sense to the monumentally selfish, stupid, clueless, mean and spiteful.
    Because, on it’s face their reasoning hasn’t proven to be a generally GOOD thing. And a lot of us know better than to believe it ever COULD be, by discriminating against ONLY gay people and THEIR orientation.